/sci/ - Science & Math

tests are a very high form of coping

>>11510370
Actually this would change from "fear-mongering" to having better actual data to work with.
They need a way to test people who have already recovered to see if they've had it in the past, that way we could start doing random sampling to figure out the actual numbers and the actual death rates

>>11510380

you are retarded. a virus like this spreads WAY too quickly to "contain" it. everybody KNOWS this.

but they will never admit it because they need to keep up appearances of doing something

most likely if your country came into contact with the virus, you have already been infected and simply didnt notice

>>11510380
>test people who have already recovered to see if they've had it in the past
Test for antibodies like any other fucking viral disease.
Makes zero difference.

>>11510370
testing and tracking is the only alternative to lockdown to control the pandemic without completely crushing the health care system and causing millions of death.
it's quite probable that the governments will have to impose mandatory testing and tracking of the population in order to end the lockdown. not a pleasant thought, but better than lockdown.

>>11510417

you are retarded. almost everybody is infected or has already been through an infection

testing doesn't change anything, it just gives people a false sense of security

>>11510370
When someone tests positive their close contacts can be tested and quarantined before showing symptoms. For example those cruise ships that weren't allowed to unload because someone onboard tested positive. The test results aren't that helpful for the infected person's treatment but its information health authorities can act on to stop further spread.

>>11510423
>>11510394
>you are retarded.

t. virologist who wrote 100 papers about nidovirales

>>11510417
>>11510435

Again. This makes total sense for the first 100 cases in a country.
It makes absolutely 0 sense with 50 thousand cases and intense community transmission.
Even bringing people to a facility to have them tested is stupid in that scenario. I bet a large number of people are getting the virus just going to the hospital to get tested for an otherwise common cough.

>>11510370
Testing to find out who is immune is the real deal

>>11510440

> DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO I AM?

you are wrong. testing doesn't change anything, except provide a false sense of security because it makes people think they can be "safe" from a virus

>>11510445
you can still transmit the virus even if you are immune, just not for a very long time
herd immunity for flus is a meme

>>11510444
Wow, ring up Donnie, maybe he'll make you CDC director and you can expose this hoax.

>>11510456
>you can still transmit the virus even if you are immune
I’m going to need a source on that, a medical research peer reviewed study.

>>11510458
stop being a petty passive aggressive spiteful cunt jesus man the fuck up

>>11510458
What the fuck are you talking about you fucking clown? What hoax? Why would you imply I'm saying anything like this?
I'm not saying the disease is not there, it's the exact opposite.

>>11510423
what the fuck are you even talking about?
we need testing to determine who can go out and who can't. there is currently zero data on immunity after infection, we don't know how long it lasts. is that really difficult to understand?

>>11510467

> somebody who has the virus sneezes on you
> you have the virus
> your body fights it off
> doesn't happen instantly

realistically, until your body has foguth off the virus , you can still transmit it

and no, im not going to waste my time googling basic logic for you you dumb fuck , im not surprised you are proud to call yourself "virologist"

>>11510471

> WE NEED DATA!!!!

no we don't. just assume everybody has the virus (which is the truth) and prepare for the worst case, which is tons of people requiring artifical breathing
that's what a smart person would do
a retard like you would advise for empty measures aka "testing" which doesn't change anything

>>11510474
How could an immune person with an infinitely small amount of virus with no symptoms be contagious. Show me a study that explains it.

>>11510486

you can transmit a virus physically without having been infected yourself

why do you even need a source for something so obvious?

god, and a study isn't a proof or disproof of anything. start using your brain you dumb bio monkey

>>11510470
>what hoax?
Check out the schizos on /pol/, I'll promise it's funnier than this thread.

>>11510490
Not him, but you're patently wrong and you should take this time to realise that just because you think something is correct, doesn't make it so.

Stop acting like an actual child.

>>11510530

im not wrong. your skin is essentially just a thin layer of fat , it has no desinfecting "abilitiy"

if somebody sneezes on a surface, you touch is, you got the virus on your hands , it has a half life of around 3 hours , and in that time you can infect others easily without being infected

you are patently retarded and incapable of thinking on your own , as seen by your appeal to authority (lol) , and asking for studies (lol, and medical ones at that, which are known to be complete memes)

anyway, the thought that people like you actually think they are academics or scholars makes me rofl very hard , because you are evidently retarded and stupid and nobody should ever listen to you in an important matter

>>11510370
> If someone has a high fever, pneumonia etc etc and comes rushing into your hospital, what difference does it make if you test them for corona virus or not?
Because they need to know how to treat the cause you fucking idiot. Also whether to completely isolate you.

>>11510536
I suppose you think you can get infected by one viral particle too huh?

Sage this thread.

>>11510544

its about the principle, not the exact amount

thinking that having had an infection makes you "safe" is wrong
thinking that you need to be infected to infect others is also wrong

testing is a complete meme and a waste of money, and the money is better spent on preparing for the worst cases and paying people to survive the quarantine

>>11510556
And you're a retard arguing that an immune individual can transmit virus because they are a corporeal being and contact transmission is a thing.

Sage this fucking thread and go socialise in public op.

>>11510568

your skin is just a layer of dead cells with a fat layer on it , it has no immune capabilities , because it is not innervated by blood vessels (epithelial tissue has no immune capabilities)
and the virus can survive on an open surface, and thus can be transmitted by an immune individual
obviously an immune individual is much less dangerous than an infected one, but its still not 100% safe and in the end testing has nothing to do with anything of this
tests are just a high form of coping

>>11510583
>dogs can actually spread HIV because they can carry infected blood in a vial and spill it on you

>>11510596

imagine claiming to be an authority and having written 1232103120310 papers and not understanding that viruses can survive for a certain time , and that the human skin has no immune capabilities
you are truly retarded , but im not surprised, biology tends to attract retards

>>11510603
Look at you missing the point over and over again. It's good because it shows everyone else not to take anything you say seriously, as they shouldn't. And again, because you missed that too, I'm not that guy.

I like how this autist in here doesn’t realize he is arguing with like 6 people

>>11510538
>treat the cause
lmfao they treat the symptoms, retard. Not the cause.

>>11510608

> epithelial tissue has no immune capabilities
> YOU ARE CLUELES!!!!
> viruses can survive on open surfaces for a certain time
> YOU ARE CLUELES!!!

lol ok retard. its obvious you dont understand how to argue with different nuances and have been spoonfed braindead theories (MUHH HERD IMMUNITY) lol

>>11510613
>Hurr durr bacterial pneumonia is treated the same way a viral pneumonia is
Waste of oxygen you are.

>>11510623

THat's exactly whats happening you dumb nigger.

>>11510625
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=bacterial+vs+viral+pneumonia
>Treatment is the biggest difference between bacterial and viral pneumonia.
Delete your internet right now.

>>11510637

you didn't understand the post you moron. nobody here is claiming that they are the same and that the treatment for bacterial pneumonia is efficient in treating viral pnuemoniua

however its the ONLY optino that exists so they do that OUT OF DESPERATION also because secondary bacterial infections are a thing , aparrt from artifically breathing there isnt anything you can do

>>11510621
See>>11510596

>>11510641

ill never stop flexing on bio monkeys

its hilarious how clueless you are after having spent years and years being spoonfed

>>11510639
>you didn't understand the post you moron
Fucking idiot. It's you who can't follow a simple train of thought. I said they need to test to see which treatment to apply. Reason is that treatment for bacterial pneumonia worsens the healing process for viral pneumonia. Here, retard:

>Treatment for bacterial pneumonia includesantibiotics, fluid hydration, anti-fever medication such as acetaminophen or ibuprofen, cough suppressant if necessary, avoidance of smoking tobacco, and hospitalization if necessary.
You do know what happens if you give covid-19 patients ibuprofen and antibiotics? You probably don't.

>>11510370
Where I live the hospitals will only test you if they think you could die from the virus. I started to develop a sore throat and muscle aches, and because my job exposes me to a lot of elderly people I asked to be tested, but because of my age and good health they refused to test me. They told me to just assume it was coronavirus and lock myself away until at least 2-3 days after symptoms stop. So here I am, stuck at home, shit posting on /sci/.

The point of social isolation is keeping the sick in quarantine. We don't know who's sick cause we don't have tests. So now we just quarantine EVERYONE for a few weeks till we mass produce enough tests. Once we got enough tests for everyone, we can tell the sick to stay home and let everyone else back into the world. But we need time to make more testing available.

So when you hear the news talking about how much testing is happening, they're indirectly talking about how long emergency state-wide quarantines will last.

>>11510662

that's the smart thing to do. unfortunately certain races are very prone to overexaggerating their sickness, such as italians and chinks which quickly causes a collapse of the whole system
because nobody wants to take the responsibility of sending somebody home who acts like hes seriously ill
testing on a massive scale is completely useless and also a waste of money , which is better spent in developing a vaccine

>>11510673
>10,000 dead in italy
>3000 dead in china
>italy and china are over-exaggerating

if anything, china is hiding their numbers

>testing on a massive scale is completely useless
see https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/scientists-say-mass-tests-in-italian-town-have-halted-covid-19

They did 100% test of EVERY person in one town. 80% tested positive. Half those tested positive were asymptomatic. After they did this, they stopped the spread of the virus dead in it's tracks. 100% testing is just as effective as a vaccine, but they did it in 2 weeks, as opposed to 18 months.

>>11510378
>>11510394

Imbeciles.

Testing is a surefire measure to reduce the reproduction ratio.
South Korea was one of the few countries to implement intensive testing. That along with other measure brought their national r0 to 1.5. The world average is about 3.3.

More tests = less infected

Someone should invent a reusable antibody test that you pair with your smartphone. Phone uploads data to a server that analyzes it, results in hours. If everyone did this, every sick person would be in quarantine, and the disease would dissipate in 2 weeks time. Hell, all communicable diseases could be eliminated this way. It would literally revolutionize medicine and change the human condition. Nobody would have to die from any communicable diseases ever again. Get on it silicon valley!

>>11510370
Because in addition to coronavirus other diseases are also being spread.

>>11510662
What OP doesn't seem to understand is that this is how it is like in basically all countries. It's important to be to test those who go to the hospital because it's relevant for their treatment and whether they need to be put in the quarantined part of the hospital or not. It's also nice to know how many people have died from the virus. This number is much more important for estimating the number of infected. Without testing we are completely blind to these things and the situation would be totally insufferable at the hospitals.

>>11510644
You require a certain concentration of virus in your airways to be infected. Since viruses often degrade rapidly in open environments from heat and light, and they also can be spread around and diffused, unless they are able to reproduce to large concentrations in a host, they will not spread. This is why they are almost exclusively spread through bodily fluids of infected people, whether they are on surfaces, or in the air as mist.

If you go swim in a swimming pool of water with an infected individual, you would probably not catch it if you're not near them.

>>11510370
>If someone has a high fever, pneumonia etc
what if they don't

>>11511591
well played

>>11510788
this.

>>11510394
your assumptions show you have no clue what you are talking about. btw calling other retards does no make you less retarded

I started getting a soar throat this morning and I’m fucking scared.

>>11510370
Because people with only a slight cough could go back to work. This only works if its done world wide though since our economy is so global.

>>11511591
If they don’t, then it doesn’t matter. Coronavirus is a meme that barely does anything.

>>11510370
testing would be effective in december or janurary
its retarded to think it matters at all now or that youre going to prevent any infections outside a nursing home, health officials kept public gatherings open just for it to spread, its spread just as fast as the flu and isnt stopping because the "qurantine" isnt a qurantine at all and the WHO can go fuck themselves if they think people are going stay in their homes until summer, people dont even pay attention to lockdowns, Humboldt university fucking sent a plane to pick up students from infected areas of california to "gather their things" in their shithole university and said planes were crawling were infected, they didnt even log passengers of the planes and had to "contact" the newly infected passengers by Facebook that they need to qurantine now theyre infected, the only things affected by this at this rate is ending the regular flu and rhinovirus season early, this virus is most likely infecting everyone by the time anything gets accomplished

>>11510467
>never heard of a carrier

>>11511891
>barely does anything.
projection

>>11511941
Imagine being this retarded

>>11511990
imagine thinking you dont have it after crowding in a shithole krogers fighting over TP with another mouthbreather

>>11512003
Yeah cause everyone is from the same american shithole as you. No wonder us is the new home of the virus

I'm kind of wondering about something, and I want to hear from an epidemiologist or someone who has actually studied something related to this, unlike the schizophrenic OP. Wouldn't the concept of a hot-spot not make sense in a scenario where the majority of people has already been infected? If the vast majority of people have already been infected, and the virus was only as deadly as the flu, wouldn't we instead see a slight rise deaths in a large part of a country, instead of these localized deaths that we see for example in Lombardy?

I know that from infection to death usually takes more than 2 weeks, but since this pandemic has been going on in the West for over a month now, wouldn’t what I said already have happened?

>>11512031
its in all 50 states in the US with traveling yuppies all over the place

>>11512031
So retarded this made my head hurt

>>11512036
There's a delay, but most deaths in America has happened relatively recently in a few geographical spots.

>>11512037
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Italy#By_regions
The vast majority of the deaths are concentrated in the north, which is my point.

>>11512042
What's your point again? That hotspots are a myth?

>>11510490
>you can transmit a virus physically without having been infected yourself

Literally how? Holding it in your hand and throwing it at someone???

>>11512046
No, I'm saying that we wouldn't see such a stark difference if the virus only as deadly as a mild flu. I never implied that the concept of a hot-spot is a myth.

>>11510538
>Because they need to know how to treat the cause you fucking idiot.

There’s no treatment for Coronavirus except alleviating the symptoms.

>>11512050
*and as widespread as some claim.

>>11512050
Difference in what? Jesus christ nvm

>>11512055
Are you actually retarded, I'm talking about deaths.

>>11512056
Durr people die more in hot spots but hotspots are also a myth. Ok

>>11512063
What a shitty reading comprehension you have there. You have to pretending at this point.

>>11511941
>pic
Can retards like that be sued?

>>11512069
Well a hot spot means theres more infected there. So more people are going to die in hotspots. Not sure what else you were asking

>>11512047
How come /sci/ is the most retarded board?
Yes, you touch something with the virus, then touch your boyfriend's asshole. Boom, you infected him without being infected (yet) yourself. How is that so difficult to comprehend?

>>11512051
Yes, although they're trying a few things. But there is a cure for other causes of pneumonia.

>>11512080
So you are just holding it in your hand and throwing it at someone. Thanks you're so woke. I'm sure that's how it always works

>>11512077
Maybe I should have been more clear with my premise in the first place. I've just heard this claim multiple times that the majority (>50%) of people are already infected, so lockdowns don't make sense.

My point is that there wouldn't be such a big difference between regions if this was the case. So when I use the word hot-spot I mean that the concept wouldn't make sense in a localized sense since most of the West would be a part of said hot-spot if it was widespread, instead we see areas of Italy that’s much worse hit than others’, which implies that nowhere near this amount of people have actually been infected countrywide.

>>11512091
>what is a smear infection
You're fucking pathetic.

>>11510370
OP, this thread is shit because you aren't actually looking for the correct answer, you just want people to confirm your dumb assertions.
You're objectively, verifiable, provably, 100% completely wrong and should actually be euthanized.

As to the correct answer (using a metaphor even you can understand):
Some fires can't be put out with water. When that's the case, one way to put out the fire is to remove the fuel source (quarantine, executions, imprisonment, sealing people in their apartments, banning the sale and distribution of bats and bat-based products)
The tests are the only way we can see how large the fire is and where it is; the fire is invisible and the presence or absence of smoke (symptoms) isn't sufficient.

>>11512091
>transfer something from one surface to another by contact
That is LITERALLY what contamination is.

>>11512103
>I've just heard this claim multiple times that the majority (>50%) of people are already infected, so lockdowns don't make sense.
Majority of people arent infected. Less then 0.1 of the population has it. That's why we are locking down so it doesn't infect 50%.

>>11512105
But we are talking about Corona not smear infections.

>>11512109
I know, but some people extrapolate the untested asymptomatic cases to mean that most people have already been infected. I just wanted to make sure if my logic in regards to why this doesn't make sense was sound.

>>11512114
If you are asymptomatic you're less likely to spread the virus anyway. The people saying "most people already infected" are being retarded

>>11510370
each test costs around 5000 dollars. you wanna spend one and a half billion dollars every month to test everyone and see who got it when its a measure that doesnt guarantee prevention of the disease nor helps anyone who already got it?

>>11510370
This virus has really exposed the stem intelligence pecking order w/ math in first and bio in dead last. Virologists are stroking their egos pretending like they are doing something important. When in reality kung flu can be beaten by a glass of orange juice and a single zinc tablet.

>>11512112
Lay off the net for a while, it increases your attention span.
No, we were talking about
>you can transmit a virus physically without having been infected yourself. Bro, you got issues.

>>11512289
It's very unlikely, unlike bacteria, viruses cannot replicate without a host, and they degrade quickly over time. So the infectious dose would degrade in most cases where it is left on a surface.

>>11512144
It has exposed the pecking order in the opposite way, where Virologists are trying to avert the death of millions of people, and math majors are crying that they're unemployed now

>>11512714
>they degrade quickly over time.
Coronaviruses have been shown to survive up to 9 days.
They found viruses on the surface of that ship after 17 days, although they couldn't say if the RNA load was still functional.
It seems like you have an opinion but never cared to check for facts.

>>11513043
Here's the most comprehensive article I could find. You can't really say that the load would be infectious if you touched infectious material and then touched someone else a couple hours later. It's a matter of how dilute the amount of virus is by that point where it's been transferred twice. https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2004973
The decay is exponential though and most objects become safe after 3 days.

>>11512131
>each test costs around 5000 dollars
It costs 15 euros in Europe. Imagine being a burger and having to be on lockdown for months because goverment can't afford corona tests.

retards like OP should be killed. Or, at the very least, lose reproductive rights

>>11512131
>test everyone
>what is a random sample
Brainlet. Get the fuck off this board.

>>11510673
>which is better spent in developing a vaccine
Do you really think that these two things are mutually exclusive? Regardless, throwing more money at the problem will not help a vaccine come out faster.

>>11510370
There are a large number of people who test positive but do not have any symptoms whatsoever. These people who are completely unaware can go and infect other people.

>>11513958
How exactly do you plan on testing these people that are asymptomatic and going about their daily lives without a care in the world?

>>11514290
>going about their daily lives without a care in the world
this describes no one for the past week or two

Presymptomatic transmission. That person can have not have a fever and not be coughing and still spread the disease.

So then, rightly, by your thinking the idea should be to stay away from everyone because they can be sick. That’s potentially a way of solving the pandemic, just sitting for our houses for a long enough time and disinfecting everything after.

But if we could test everyone in America at the exact same moment, we would know who has it and who doesn’t. This wouldn’t stop the progression of the disease, but we could quarantine out the people who test positive until they have symptoms and they pass/they test negative. Way quicker.

>>11513114
Interesting source, thanks. So it's three days, but it doesn't change the fact that you can transmit viral loads via touching things (or people).

>>11514353
I transmit viral loads into your mother.

>>11514359
Doubt it. She says you can't get it up.
She's happy she can finally use her strap-on collection tho.

>>11510370
this is low quality bait.
wtf happened to you sci

>>11510495
No thanks.

>>11512121
>>If you are asymptomatic you're less likely to spread the virus anyway.
What if I spray spittle when I talk?

>>11512080
Think about what kind of people still fetishize the university in this day and age.

>>11515310
Thanks for the headaches.