/sci/ - Science & Math

>computer science
not science or math

not science
not math

>>11456962
>>11456961
Stop giving such reddit answers bros!!!

>>11456960
CS attracts a lot of brainlets, for obvious reasons. That's pretty much what it comes down to.

>>11456960
I don't hate CS itself, but I hate many things related to it. I hate how it is marketed even by serious institutions, I hate the culture around programming careers, and specially, I hate CS students. CS can be: Silicon Valley-esque faggots, pajeets looking for what they perceive to be high paying and prestigious jobs, le hacking culture nerds, that kid that thinks he's a genius because he was smart in high school, wannabe entrepreneurs, and lots, LOTS of posers

giving a machine orders is not a science, it's winding up the clockwork slaves

>>11456960
CS attracted a lot of low-quality students who thought it would help them get rich quickly with little effort. Programs shifted and changed in order to cater to these students.
Engineering (especially biomedical, for some reason -- there must have been some kind of big recruiting/marketing drive) gets a lot of shitters who don't realize how much effort's involved, and think they can use whining as a substitute. CS has both a high shitter-to-student ratio and a high number of students overall, so it has a worse reputation.

>>11456960
Some autists are jelly. CS makes the most money, CS is where the innovation is taking place and has been taking place for the last 5 decades.

Anything testable with scientific method is science you gatekeeping low iq pedants.

>>11456976
>>11457055
>>11457087
These answers desu. It's not the computers, it's not the material, it's not the career paths, it's the faggots.

>>11456971
Where do you think Reddit got those answers from?

It's only science in the sense that one can perceive it as something discovered through experimentation, and it's only math in that it's essentially just the understanding of definitions and relationships.

CS is okay as a hobby or as a supplement for other professions, but CS as a specific profession has become a meme. A bunch of new people flooded into CS specifically for the money, so the field had a culture shift from enthusiastic garage-innovating electrical engineers to the silly chucklefuck nerds behind MySpace & Newgrounds & 4chan to burnt-out code monkeys in test automation who would hesitate to even touch a KVM switch.

The people here are thirsty for learning, and the mass of people coming out of CS just are not that anymore.

>>11457200
You are a faggot redditor posting from a devixe that exists thanks to CS

>>11457200
What is the correct career path, oh wise one?

>>11456960
As a degree it's basically as close as uni gets to trade school. Also tends to have a particularly retarded student population as people have mentioned ITT. The plus side of this is that it can be incredibly easy as far as undergrad majors go. I doubled in CS + Pure Maths because all the CS classes boosted the hell out of my GPA and left time for personal interests.

As far as 'careers' go being a code monkey is lame but so is nearly any /sci/ private sector job. Going into data science or quant finance is far more gay however, and if you only study pure math that is likely where you will end up; don't kid yourself into thinking you'll be one of the .1% that wins a tenure track role.

>>11457206
> exists thanks to CS
I think you mean "thanks to Electrical Engineers and physicists"

>>11456960
Theoretical computer science is a real stem field, up there with math and physics. Most CS courses are glorified software "engineering" and it attracts a lot of knuckle dragging retards that think they'll make 6figs straight out of school.

>>11456960

>Javascript
>why does /sci/ hate comp sci

Sci doesn't hate compsci junior. We are here to discuss math, science and philosophy, NOT ENGINEERING. And btw coding =/= compsci so I don't even see that as a valid question OP.

>>11457449

Name one problem that CS has solved that is very different from the math or physics. Just give up bro. CS is an extension of math. And even at that, it is shit compared to pure math. Quantum computing is an extension of physics of quantum mechanics. CS is emergent phenomena with a bit of coding classes thrown in.

>>11457127
Most of /sci/ is engineers.

>>11457530
Most of /sci/ is engineers.

>>11457200
> it's only math in that it's essentially just the understanding of definitions and relationships.
...no, it's not. Stop spouting software eng and sci memes before you know what the field is about. Statements like
>CS is okay as a hobby or as a supplement for other professions
are very sci and a clue you've absorbed the memes. Exactly what is "CS as a hobby?"
>enthusiastic garage-innovating electrical engineers
>another EE who thinks CS is a consequence of EE
ah, I see the problem. Newsflash, no amount of DLD or switching theory will ever make CS fundamentally a part of EE applications. The field is about solving problems related to computation, not being a circuit monkey who slaps FPGA's together. There's an intersection in systems CS and embedded, but the core of these two fields lie in completely different worlds.

>>11457555
>Name one problem that CS has solved that is very different from the math or physics.
>very different than math
CS is not an 'extension.' TCS is a field of pure mathematics surrounding computation as its core study. But if you insist, here are some contributions from the CS department that have seen use in these two topics
>math
analytic combinatorics
domain theory
all of complexity theory and the pcp theorem
fuckton of type theory research
fuckton of graph theory and classic combinatorics research
natural uses for free groups
>physics
monte carlo methods
generalized communication and information theoretic results
visualization and imaging (http://www.computationalimaging.org/publications/nlos-fk/))

and this is a basic shortlist. Idk what you think research in the CS department looks like, but it's clear you probably belong to none of the math, physics, or CS camps, and you're probably a shitposting EE student

>>11457555
>And even at that, it is shit compared to pure math.
In what regard? Lots of results in CS are literally just pure math. How would the PCP theorem rank in regards to 'being shit' with the rest of pure math? How isn't domain theory a pure topological subfield? How is complexity theory, the field about understanding the difficulty of mathematics problems, anything but pure? Not only that, why do mathematics professors like Avi Wigderson, who holds a chair at Princeton's IAS, have many publications in CS theory? Mate, TCS is among its own compared to pure math.
>Quantum computing is an extension of physics of quantum mechanics.
quantum complexity theory isn't about quantum mechanics as much as it's about computation using probability amplitudes. Quantum leads to really interesting overlaps between fundamental physics and fundamental CS, but it's not about durr fast computer on physics.
> CS is emergent phenomena
No lol, it's literally just a name to 'mathematics about computation and constructibility.'

>>11457945
>Most of /sci/ is engineers.
Delusion

>>11457945
Most of /sci/ is NEETs and high schoolers

>>11456960

It's about potential.

Most CS grads will top out at some shit middle management position.

>>11458475
Yes, and? Some will be the next Rabin or Kolmogorov. Most math and physics grads will fade into mediocrity without any contribution. Most engineering majors don't even get into engineering jobs and peter out in some entry level finance jobs. The majority of majors in any field end up doing middling work. The 'potential' is not to be based on what people who settle end up doing - in fact, that's usually the opposite.

>>11456960
One big, and very good reason to shit on CS is that after a long time of being the premiere high-paying white-collar job it is finally starting to show signs of being potentially automated away in the not-too-distant future.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ai-is-the-next-workplace-disrupterand-its-coming-for-high-skilled-jobs-11582470000

So congratulations, Bob on your re-training into CS. I'm sure it was a second degree well-worth wasting your life on!

>>11458489
>basic bitch software dev and CS are the same thing
when will this meme die

>>11458494
everyone calls it that. everyone means that when they say 'cs'

>>11458494
NO ONE thinks of this cartoon when they say cs

>>11458498
but it's not CS
>>11458502
This isn't exactly true either

>>11458462
That's /jp/. /sci/ is full of undergrads. The ones in IT fields actually go to /g/.

>>11458767
i'm suddenly reminded of why it was moot's favorite board

>>>/jp/22984732

>>11456960
It's the least math intensive STEM degree. CS is alright in grad school but undergrad CS is shit.

>>11458952
biology? chemistry?

I'm a Software Engineer student and I can't bear the shitty mindset of classmates and professors where everyone want to do webdev and mobiledev.
I guess I'll drop out and I'm going to do CE

>>11457555

This post just shows how ignorant and vane your knowledge of CS is.
But hey, every faggot has a right to have it's own opinion and that's fine.

>>11458489
what an absolutely fucking asinine post. come on anon, you're better than this.

Pray tell, who do you think will be the ones designing those automated processes?

People who work on machine learning, and AI right?

What degree do people get when they plan to work in Machine Learning and A.I.? Go ahead, I'll wait.

I'll give you a hint: It certainly won't be applied mathematicians only.


OP, and everyone else, don't listen to all this negative bullshit. CompSci is a fine degree. It's extremely vague and specializing in another STEM field is good if you know exactly what you're after, but if you graduate in CompSci, at least TO MY UNDERSTANDING, you're then at liberty to decide where you want to go with it, whether that be doing a graduate degree in a different program or using that degree to get jobs that will take you where you need to go. (don't quote me on this I'm a liberal arts major at a community college, long story not memeing)

I think all degrees are valuable. Everything is on computers, and everything will be on computers for a long time to come. Even if some nuclear insane shit happened and all computers were gone, we need people to know how they work so we can make them again.
Some of the greatest advancements in the world in math, physics, life sciences, etc. were done with computers and computation. We all need each other.
In my opinion, every degree is valuable. If there wasn't a reason to study something, noone would be studying it.
/rant
Edit: Thank you for the gold, kind stranger!
Edit: aww guys i wasn't expecting this to blow up so much

>>11458952
so least math intensive automatically = bad?
what the fuck is with this boards obsession with math
i understand all science is rooted in math but this is one of those situations where people meme something hard enough that everyone else starts to believe it. yes math is important but if you want a decent paying job and options i doubt a math degree is the #1 and only best way to do that.

>>11456961
I studied mechanical engineering for 5 semesters before switching to computer science. CS includes more math modules than engineering, at least at the universities i went to.
On top of that i am minoring in math, which means i can choose a bunch of courses from my universities mathematics bachelor degree. My algorithmic theory module was harder than anything i have come across in mathematics so far.

>>11458400
physics grad here. I originally posted that. Compsci is a label for math. The word computer literally means to do arithmetic. You are an engineering field, You study algorithms which are methods of doing calculations. It's clear that you are an autistic insecure incel fa/g/got who probably doesn't belong here because you have a tiny brain that is insecure as fuck.

>>11459217
the only faggot here is you with your small brain.

>>11458400
literally everything you said is just "CALCULATION HACKS". It fucking disgusts me to see you pollute the name of math with your bitchass philosophy about computation. Computation is not math just like arithmetic is not math. You should call yourselves a field of arithmetic faggot, because that is what you are.

>>11456960
It makes electrical engineers seethe super hard since people think they are tradeschool tier while people think computer science students are going to work at google etc

ITT bunch of angry mathtoddlers without practical skills that can't help but stare at your feet when you talk to them. Meanwhile any comp sci Msc worth a damn can make 6 figures within the first 2 years of being employed.

>>11457078
Christ could you be more pretentious

>>11458952
>least math intensive STEM degree
>not bio
Nice meme. Also
>his CS degree isn’t rigorous
Yeah you go to a bad school for the subject lmao. Either way, I’d say the presence of proof classes makes it more rigorous than most - but your average /sci/ dork will meme that not doing calculus “shut up and calculate” courses past vector calc means “it doesn’t have math.”

>>11456960
they are envious

This is a clear shitpost, but
>>11459294
>physics grad here
Nah
>computation is arithmetic
lolno. It’s funny since so many physics researchers switched over to CS way back when because they found the study of computation so interesting.
>you study algorithms
Nah I don’t
>insecure
I think the one clearly shitposting about a field he doesn’t know is the insecure one
>>11459299
>domains and analytic combo
>””””””calculation””””””
Lol you do know the latter has techniques and theory that describes a lot of chemical phenomena right?
>polluting the name of math
Nah. Seeing as how CS and math professors have so many papers together, I’d say the two camps are in agreement.
>computation is not math
Computation is nothing but mathematics. It differs from calculation since you’re not talking about quantities but in fact making decisions on local substructures to make a decision on globe structures.
>arithmetic meme
Lolno. Even something as simple as regular languages appeals to basic semigroup theory and has no relation to “arithmetic.”
Anon didn’t anyone tell you the majority of undergrad physics is being a calculation jockey? Feeling a little insecure?

>>11459228
It’s not the least math intensive, since any good program is entrenched in mathematics for its theory. That being said, people, and especially engineering students (the same people who do no math except shut up and calculate) like to make this argument as a quick appeal to authority. The truth is that nobody does as much actual mathematics as a math major, since physics and engineering just take some calculus and linear algebra results and that’s about it in undergrad. CS comes closer since in any decent program, you get several rigorous courses in combinatorics, graph theory, probability theory, automata, complexity, etc..
The idea that calculus isn’t really nontrivial mathematics doesn’t sit well with many people on the board, and even less so CS curricula that meaningfully apply calculus.

>>11456962
>>11456961
Are you retarded?
It's not science or computers, but it sure as hell is math you subhuman contrarians.
Let me guess, you are engineers

>>11456960
The primary reason is because of the monetization of the CS degree. This is mostly got to do with software engineering, even though a science field, being more related to white collar jobs than to pure science.
SE just spew whatever TCS researchers have done onto a computer. To get a SE job, you don't even need to know hardcore math.
TCS is pure research, but the millions that gradute every year from universities all around the world, do no research and end up being code monkeys.
Other fields I guess are more rigorous in terms of research.

>>11457179
Their pedantic attitudes more than make up for their cogent arguments in terms of SE not being pure science. Its essentially a white collar job right now and most companies are supporting such students.

>>11457449
True and more so for most asians.

>>11456960
CS people are cringe. Math people are cringe too but less cringe than CS people. Never seen that much autists and smug "i know better than you about this useless topic" guys than CS people.
Fuck. Hit the gym, take a shower, learn to talk about interesting things which are not JUST technicalities. I think thats my biggest problem: People who are so fucking invested in technicalities that they can't see a bigger picture and CS is highly guilty of such people. Also brainlets (also from other fields) who shit on philosophy and humanities. They wouldnt see the bigger picture even if i would spoonfeed it to them.

t. physics MSc, philsophy BA

>>11459222
based shitposter

>>11459685
Its not the pure CS guys who shit on others. Its the one who go one to become code monkeys. There's an important distinction between CS and SE.

>>11457253
Turing wasn't an electrical engineer or physicist

>>11459699
I let that slide. Agreed. For one semester I was always sitting in the CS study room thing and I was blown away by the cringe. Fat, ugly nerds with akne, having linux dist., anonymous and reddit sticker on their laptops, giggling because I was just using Ubuntu to get my shitty Fortran code to run on VIM for the excercises in statistical mechanics because our shitty as professor told us to do it this way.

I was cringing so hard.

>>11459709
That's true in most universities. Although I'm unsure about ivy schools. But if someone is interested in pure CS, they mostly go on to do masters and then maybe a Phd. More importantly, the pure CS guys go on to study advanced math, after all CS is related to math.
Code monkeys barely do math and immediately look for jobs and in their spare time are only learning new languages or applying the same to create software

>>11458952
>undergrad CS
That's because undergrad CS is basically just software engineering at most universities. Don't conflate CS with whats studied in a CS degree. Grad school is where real CS can finally actually be studied.

>>11456960
I wonder how many CS retards have actually gone into pure math because /sci/ shamed them into it. I am one of them. Listen up, retards. Changing your degree won't alter your intelligence. Your intelligence is basically fixed. Stick with whatever degree you prefer, if you're a brainlet, nothing's going to change that, cunts.

>>11459751
Says the retard himself. The irony though.

Because programmers tend to be unbearable nerds that haven't the slightest clue how easy it is to do what they do.

Note the difference in hate between cs people and engineers

>>11459793
>programmers
>CS people
Two different crowds

>>11459618
Nothing I did in my undergrad course required me to be a calculation jockey except besides collecting data from lab work.

The theoretical part of my studies included studying linear algebra, PDEs, Matrices, Fourier analysis, mulitvariable calculus to name a few.
Majority of physics grads are plastic enough to fit into any field because of their enhanced mathematical understanding. Math grads even more so. The only way a computer "scientist", it pains me to see those two words together, stands out in the crowd is having learned about programming which is not even difficult to pick up. The word computer science probably didn't even exist 70 years ago.

Because it's a PSEUD field

>>11456961
Works of Turing, Church and Gödel started by attempts to automatize mathematics.

>>11459835
Poor choicing of words on my end. That's what I meant between cs people and engineers. Cs is actual science and testable fornhypotheses

>>11457055
damn didn't know that, enrolling in CS next year because i have little programming background and it pays pretty well. Tbh engineering sounds more exciting but doesn't pay as much as CS. i guess i'm "pajeets looking for what they perceive to be high paying and prestigious jobs"

>>11459855
>linear algebra, matrices
>'''advanced math''
I'm guessing you did basic SU(2) because of quantum, but not actual linear past matrix arithmetic
>PDEs
without any sort of analysis, so it's garbage 'let's massage the solution out'
>Fourier analysis
LOL doing a transform or some series decomps is not Fourier analysis. I doubt you picked up stein and shakarchi or any other book of similar difficulty
>multivariable calc
>calc
see >>11459631 on calculus
calc is 1000% calculation jockey
>Majority of physics grads are plastic enough to fit into any field because of their enhanced mathematical understanding.
most physics grads have a very rudimentary understanding of mathematics past what they need for their classical mechanics. They know dramatically less math than math grads and dramatically less applied design than engineering students, and so without a masters, they're generally useless
>math grads even more so
math is one of the best undergrad majors to do graduate studies into a career, but you need some secondary education if you don't want to code monkey
>programming which is not even difficult to pick up.
CS is not and has never been about programming. It's clear looking at anything taken for granted that compilers exist, but even on the theoretical side, CS researchers have as many credentials as in other fields, and of course have their individual edge. This is telling since the CS PhD has way more employability both in academia and out of it than math or physics just by looking at trends in the past 20 years. Again, I get this is shitposting for (You)'s, but why do you feel the need to lie?

>>11459911
No, it's a field that was born between math and engineering, so it has subfields of those two flavors. Theory is straight math, while systems is straight engineering. It's not about testable hypotheses - that's a methodological argument that excludes theory from all discussions in science. CS is a terrible name for a field that's collectively the systematic study of computation.

>>11459914
both are generally really exciting if you're with the right crowd. Friendly reminder that the mid tier work in both ends up being basic, soul-crushing bullshit

>>11457234
Holy shit, you are one retarded faggot.

>>11460033
I dont think you understand what a testable hypothesis is. Source, I am a physicist who codes and have done alot of experiments and worked in a research lab.

Suppose you figure out a new protocol over large ethernet which should ideally minimize transit time and have few collisions (assuming half duplexing). Now suppose you want to verify whether this protocol actually does what you want it to. You test it over various networks and various conditions and get its results. Then you state your observations and draw conclusions from your results. What part of this is not in the scientific method?

>>11460040
lolololol good post/pic/gif

>>11460063
I don't think you understand what computer science is.
>I am a physicist who codes
First and foremost
>I am a physicist
doubt.jpg
Second, the 'coding' is not computer science. Computer science includes what is described in >>11458400
As for your example: the fundamental difference comes from the fact that a formal proof of correctness over a research level method in applied CS is, well, a proof, while the time taken to test and refine it is a process of engineering and implementation, not prodding a natural system for inquiry. This is why overfitting techniques to 'the scientific method' is generally a really bad argument. It's clear if you know anything about CS, it's divided into mathematics and engineering, which is not to diminish it - it's a field more than worth studying, and its theory stands next to the giants despite being so young.

>>11456960
Because it's a lucrative career that dabs all over STEM cucks

>>11460087
You dont know what the fuck you're talking about

>>11456960
cause it's a meme

>>11456960
I wish /sci/ would embrace discussions around programming and computer science because it's impossible with the pa/g/eets that would rather talk about fucking distros and web browsers and usb drives. For fucks sake

>>11460113
No dude, you don't know what you're talking about if you're trying to push that the code you write (or that writing code and testing it) is CS or science. You haven't even refuted any points.

>>11460142
programming and computer science aren't the same

>>11460177
Your argument is garbled nonsense that has no coherent progression of logic. You literally just state your opinion on what cs is, you dont refute my example of a test of a hypothesis, you dont describe what a hypothesis is, you bring up ML in a garbled attempt to make a point which I will agree, if I read between the lines. is somewhat valid.

There is a definition to the scientific method, and anything that can be done through it is considered to be science. Your opinion of what science is is founded on your own ego and what you think science should be.

>>11460179
>programming AND computer science
Which is why I said and. It's helpful to discuss the application (programming) of theory (CS), which is called doing science. But it is problematic to focus too much on process e.g. IDE wars, progamming lang flame wars

>>11460177
Different anon, but is designing and building an apparatus for a physical experiment not doing science?

>>11460188
>You literally just state your opinion on what cs is
...no, I state the actual facts about what CS is based on research activity, papers, work in the field, etc. Software implementations lie mostly in the world of software engineering or other fields, but those aren't CS
>you dont refute my example of a test of a hypothesis
Yes, I do, in this: "he fundamental difference comes from the fact that a formal proof of correctness over a research level method in applied CS is, well, a proof, while the time taken to test and refine it is a process of engineering and implementation, not prodding a natural system for inquiry."
the scientific method is a system made for inquiry on the natural world in order to ascertain its mechanisms. However, computer based implementations of algorithms are manmade systems that can be changed, so the process of writing, testing, and revising is closer to engineering techniques of unit testing, black boxing, etc., than the actual scientific method. Studying the behavior of large software systems is in fact a mathematical subfield of program correctness and verification..but you're not doing that in your software - you're doing manual corrections to your protocol implementation based on some behavior.
> you bring up ML in a garbled attempt to make a point which I will agree
no dumbfuck, I said 'overfitting' because you're using the idea of the scientific method loosely when it doesn't really apply. Nowhere in my post did I make any reference to ML.
>Your opinion of what science is is founded on your own ego and what you think science should be.
No, not really, and it's clear when we look in the difference of activities between scientists and CS researchers. Again, this isn't to downplay their work - some do pure or applied math, and some do engineering, but protocol design and ad hoc methods to minimize transit time is not an example of the scientific method - it's an iterative engineering endeavor.

>>11460199
see >>11460238
What experiment are we talking about here? Would you say engineering techniques to control complexity of systems and design are 'doing science?' In some vague cultural sense, sure, but if we're going to make a meaningful categorization of academic activities, no, it's not fundamental science.

>>11460242
Wrong again

>>11460238
You dont know how to read do you. I'm guessing g you just like to hear yourself talk. Again you dont address any points. I've seen research papers on server design implementations, which is inherently software oriented. Clearly you are larping

>>11457087
Yep
Can't add more to this

>>11460087
>doubt.jpg

You are a schizo who just can't accept that CS is a pseud field. fuck out of my board

>>11460188
I'm the other physics grad this code monkey is trying to talk with and I agree with you that he doesn't have clue what he's talking about. Btw I code too and I have worked as a network engineer for reference. I've read CS papers. I know what the fuck they do. They are a branch of mathematics with the name "science" attached to it.

>>11460381
I see you are a man of culture

>>11460281
>wrong
nah, you're wrong
>Again you dont address any points
yes I do lol
>>11460381
>>11460389
Ah, I see you're samefagging.
>I have worked as a network engineer
not CS
>They are a branch of mathematics with the name "science" attached to it.
where have I ever disagreed with this notion

COMPUTER SCIENCE IS NOT ABOUT PROGRAMING

COMPUTER SCIENCE IT MATH

I want all code monkeys, "software" "engineers", game developers, code artisans and all the rest to fuck off my favorite branch of mathematics. Computer Science is about turning machines, algorithms, graphs, formal languages/grammars, state machines and all other wonders of various theoretical models of computation. I wish people could see this field for what it really is, not what normies want it to be.

>>11460406
>Data structures and algorithms. Shut up now schizo we've had enough of you, take your lithium and go back to sleep. You can read about finite state machines tomorrow.

>>11460417

>>11460406
Take your community college degree elsewhere chump

>>11457055
I'm in an intro level programming course right now
Half the class couldn't rap their head around "the percentage sign"
It's pain

>>11460505
the state of comp "sci". I have nothing against coding anon, it will put food on your table. But cs is a meme, both in philosophy and real life.

>>11460022
Of course, a CS bitch will know more about "mathematical versatility" than a physics grad. How do you live with yourself anon?

>>11460543
>it will put food on your table
That's why I chose it over math, I just hope all of the retards in the program get weeded by physics or calculus

>>11460377
>my board
please kys.

>>11460548
>no response
Keep seething bitchboy

>>11460417
>I want all code monkeys, "software" "engineers", game developers, code artisans and all the rest to fuck off my favorite branch of mathematics. Computer Science is about turning machines, algorithms, graphs, formal languages/grammars, state machines and all other wonders of various theoretical models of computation. I wish people could see this field for what it really is, not what normies want it to be.

I'm currently a student for Computer Science, and I'm starting to find out I love math, algorithms, learning LISP, etc. I really want to go deeper into this abstract world

But I fear if I follow the path towards a CS degree, I'm just going to end up as a webdev (which I despise)

Should I swap majors guys? What the hell does a math major even do?

>>11460787
>I'm currently a student for Computer Science, and I'm starting to find out I love math, algorithms, learning LISP, etc. I really want to go deeper into this abstract world
Do research with an algorithms or compilers professor and see what they say. If you’re early into CS, you may be able to switch, otherwise minor in math with as many courses as you can take. I’ve seen a fair number of CS undergrads who did math grad pretty successfully
>But I fear if I follow the path towards a CS degree, I'm just going to end up as a webdev
Nah not if you take good courses, are in a good program, etc. I realize double majoring isn’t an option for everyone, but take more math if you can. It all becomes useful later on.
>what does a math major do
You take an intro to reasoning class and then do various introductory topics classes for electives. Usually at least a little algebra and analysis is required, but then the sky is your limit.

Just keep trucking anon, and then you’ll find what you like. Both TCS and math have a lot of interesting problems. Ask your professors for help - they’ll know better than any anon here.

>>11460787
Dunno. I was really lucky and my CS was very focused on theory. Most people hated it, I loved it.

>be me, 27
>graduated at 21 with bachelors in computer science from a reputable university
>work hard for 6 years
>making $180k a year working from home

ahh feels good to be a Coomputer science graduate. math fags and physics niggers stay mad at your $50k salary, your proofs won't earn you money.

>>11456961
cs literally solved Hilbert's tenth problem

>>11456960
Ultimately, it's because the theory of computation is the supercategory over every other theory that exists.
Math is computation. The laws of physics are computations. Chemistry, biology, language, ALL OF IT are computations that we can analyze constructively using intuitionist logic and the theory of computation.
Eventually, there will be nothing but the study of computation.

>>11457555
it's literally the opposite, mathematics is a subcategory of computer science.

>>11458487
>>>11458475 (You)
>Yes, and? Some will be the next Rabin or Kolmogorov. Most math and physics grads will fade into mediocrity without any contribution. Most engineering majors don't even get into engineering jobs and peter out in some entry level finance jobs. The majority of majors in any field end up doing middling work. The 'potential' is not to be based on what people who settle end up doing - in fact, that's usually the opposite.

Those guys are PhD level mathematicians, which proves my point.

Show me someone with a "computer science degree" that has contributed anything to the field. It's either core mathematicians or core electrical engineers who basically minor in computer science.

Computer Science should be called "Computer Science Survey" or some shit. It just doesn't get far enough into things for you to really understand anything.

>>11461822
>Show me someone with a "computer science degree" that has contributed anything to the field.
Scott Aaronson
Erik Demaine
Sanjeev Arora
Boaz Barak
Oded Goldreich
Jeff Erickson
Phillipe Flajolet
Robert Sedgewick
Christos Papadimitriou
Ola Svensson

As far as I remember, everywhere here has a CS PhD, and most of them have a mix of CS undergrad, math undergrad, and CS / math double major undergrad. Do you want more names?

>>11461547
>proofs won't earn you money.
proofs earn CS grads a lot of money though
doing any sort of novel research in algorithms makes bank

>>11462036
fag, making money is better than anything existing.

>>11462925
Did you not read what I just said
Industry algorithms research makes a lot of money, so in some very clear sense, proofs can make you a lot of money. This is one application of higher CS.

>>11461822
regardless of their PhD title, if they do nontrivial mathematics, you double down and say 'durr those aren't cs people, they're mathematicians.' Don't you see how stupid that is? why is it that anyone with a CS degree, PhD or not, is a brainlet in your eyes, and if they're not, they have to be absorbed into mathematician status to keep consistent with your views? Why can't you just revise them lmao

>>11463625
and to add on, why is it always the narrative that despite what their degrees are, it's always these people are described as "the mathematician that's a computer scientist" rather than "the computer scientist that's a mathematician?" Seems like an unhealthy pedestal

>>11461614
>inb4 it wasn't reeeeal math
the goalposts move every second

>>11456960
Because they are jealous

>>11456960
Since nerds are introspective and don’t have anything else they like to turn their studying into a dick measuring contest. As if anyone actually gave a fuck

>>11460417
Based and redpilled

>>11460417
> Computer Science is about turning machines, algorithms, graphs, formal languages/grammars, state machines and all other wonders of various theoretical models of computation.
Every single time. The point is CS degrees barely scratch the surface of these topics.

>>11464726
My degree was quite in depth about these though. But as I said, I was lucky.

CS is a tool and should be used to supplement

>>11456960
>Why does /sci/ hate computer science so much
Not science nor math
>Every time people start mentioning careers
>>>/biz/ >>>/adv/

>>11464767
Did you take an entire class on graph theory?

ITT: People jealous over CS grads salary

>>11464726
Maybe you go to a shit school lmao
>>11464787
I mean unironically yes. We went over flow, connectivity, extremal theory, random graphs, Ramsey theory, random walks, coloring, and ended off with topics infinitary combinatorics and then algebraic graph theory.

>>11464845
Nobody brought up anything about salary lmao. You lend credence to npc’s like >>11464785 to say “hurr durr not science or math”

>>11464864
99.99% of CS schools don't require you to do that.

>>11464864
>oh you know graph theory?
>quick, enumerate independent sets of flower snark edges

>>11464864
>algebraic graph theory
>CS
sure

>>11459631
>It’s not the least math intensive
Yes it is, the only "math" courses you're guaranteed to do in a CS degree beyond the piss easy calc 1,2 and discrete probability requirements are:

-A pathetic discrete "math" that only covers definitions over various topics without going deep into any of them.
-An intro to algorithms class that barely qualifies as math where you're told to program basic bitch sorting algorithms in O(nlgn) time.
-A theory of computation course where 85% of the time is wasted on FSM and only the last few lectures are spent on actual computability and complexity.

High school math is overkill to all of these, you're literally retarded if you can't learn these by yourself in a few days.

>>11464882
It's more like 60%. If you're at any decent school, you're going to do the basics at the very least
>>11464891
dont remember much about flower snarks other than like all graphs, we can bound the max indepdendent set by |V| / 2, and the only two salient examples I remember were the Peterson and Tietze graphs
>>11464907
>algebraic graph theory
>not in CS
expanders are huge in CS
spectral graph theory
group theoretic approaches to graph isomorphism
bruh you don't need to squint to see the immediate motivation and uses

>>11464961
>Yes it is, the only "math" courses you're guaranteed to do in a CS degree beyond the piss easy calc 1,2 and discrete probability requirements are:
Look, again I really don't know what shit school you went to. My program made me do calc 1-3, data structures, intro to proofs, and linear algebra (computational, proof based came later unfortunately) for admission into the major. I double majored with math given I had enough credits coming in to do it feasibly. There were more algorithms, probability (in the math department, we covered discrete probability, continuous distributions, expectations, etc. basics).
>A pathetic discrete "math" that only covers definitions over various topics without going deep into any of them.
I did intro to proofs like all the other math students. The 'discrete mathematics' were distributed across many other courses, with at least one necessary discrete topic as a class (ie combinatorics, graph theory, number theory, etc)
>-An intro to algorithms class that barely qualifies as math where you're told to program basic bitch sorting algorithms in O(nlgn) time.
lolno, even at most programs an algorithms course is regarded as being fairly difficult. Doing the reduction from polynomial multiplication into FFT, for example, isn't easy and requires a lot of maturity to follow through
>A theory of computation course where 85% of the time is wasted on FSM and only the last few lectures are spent on actual computability and complexity.
my first ToC course spent like 2 weeks on FSM, 2 weeks on CFL, and then we spent the rest of the semester on computability and intro complexity. Then we had another elective for complexity proper (PCP theorem, AM games, algebraic computation trees, etc)

>>11464961
>>11464986
(cont)
>High school math is overkill to all of these, you're literally retarded if you can't learn these by yourself in a few days.
lmao no. Look i know there are some brainlet programs out there, but given how I've seen so many other non-majors struggle with basic data structures, I don't think this is anywhere near high school level.

>>11464787
I got like half of these >>11464864
It was just a bachelor degree though.

>>11464907
>algebra not being a basic tool in CS
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2077915/applications-of-abstract-algebra-in-cs/2078008#2078008
this is just the mainstream examples that admit some nice combinatorial structure. Depending how more esoteric you want to go, you get more and more algebraic presence in CS, not to even mention categorical

>>11458386
>There's an intersection in systems CS and embedded, but the core of these two fields like in completely different worlds
people like you are the problem. stop thinking of the hardware and software as two separate things. software is comprised of various levels of abstraction to hardware. which i'm not saying isn't a damn good abstraction, but people who forget that shouldn't be suprised when somebody cracks their software. i recommend reading "The Story of Mel" for an example of computation with hardware in mind (its just the first thing that came to my head)

>>11459709
vim does not run programs, sir

>>11462925
i hope you stop thinking this one day

>>11464986
>lolno, even at most programs an algorithms course is regarded as being fairly difficult. Doing the reduction from polynomial multiplication into FFT, for example, isn't easy and requires a lot of maturity to follow through
I've never met a computer scientist that knows what is a Fourier Transform, let alone FFT.

>>11465363
>I’ve never met computer scientist that knows what is a Fourier Transform
You sound like one of those annoying assholes who calls themselves “engineer,” “mathematician,” “physicist,” and other similarly despite being only undergrads. Undergrads are students of subjects. Many of these people end up in finance and not their stem fields. Some end up in software dev. Other end up being mathematicians or scientists.
Either way, lmao even if we’re talking undergrads, FFT is one of the most popular algorithms to analyze. Now, I don’t think the average CS student does Fourier analysis in undergrad (but then again, I don’t think the average EE major does it either, and no your class on linear systems and transforms doesn’t count), but I’ve never met any CS student who didn’t have just some passing familiarity with FFT. Like dude, you’re not answering any questions about how good your school is, your aptitude, crowd, etc.

>>11465318
No, people like you are the problem, because you want to absorb CS into other fields. CS and EE aren’t as surface level as “software vs hardware” - they tackle problems in fundamentally different ways and with different core concerns in mind. The reason I said the intersection was in systems was because that’s where they start really interacting, but no I don’t think there’s a divide between the theorists and the systems researchers. We don’t divide CS into software and hardware considerations - we divide it into problems we attack with different ideas. Algorithms are generally the connective glue between fields

>>11459707
Turing wasn't a computer scientist either, he was a mathematician. Essentially, every single person of note who makes significant contributions to computer science is a mathematician first and a code monkey second.

>>11465687
It's just like CS is math.

>>11465687
>Turing wasn’t a computer scientist
Computer science was not the common name for the field in the 30s
>well uh computer science is just the coding bits and the rest is math
See
>>11463625
>>11463671

>>11456960
It's a highly oversaturated field

>>11465687
>brainlet thinks CS means codemonkey in academia because undergrads codemonkey at companies rather than do their PhD
A lot of math majors here sing the praises going into software development after undergrad and then self studying. Are mathematicians suddenly now codemonkeys because of this?
Do you realize how stupid it sounds to compare undergrad with PhD holders?

>>11465687
An undergrad CS major isn’t a computer scientist any more than than an undergrad math major is a mathematician. What else is a “computer scientist” to you?

>>11460063
>>11460381
>I’m a physicist who codes
>this means I know CS
Ah yes, the long-standing tradition of physics grads overconfidently talking about fields they know on a surface level. Not to mention samefagging.

Anyone knows if a CS and and stats (math Bsc) joint major is worth it?

>>11456960
Because 90% of CS is web design and shitty business apps for things like payroll management and the like.
Yes 10%, probably less, of CS is extremely interesting and difficult, but most of it is absolutely not.
If we stop shaming CSfags on this board we'll get flooded with "pls halp me code this website" or "how do i java" threads

>>11466828
>Because 90% of CS is web design and shitty business apps for things like payroll management and the like.
No, this is software dev, and specifically BAIT (business applications and IT). It has next to nothing to do with CS, much less any decent CS program.
>Yes 10%, probably less, of CS is extremely interesting and difficult, but most of it is absolutely not.
where are you pulling these numbers out? exactly what do you think is the 'interesting' part, and exactly what is the rest of 'CS' (the '90%')? I'm almost certain the answer for the 10% is going to be some answer like ML.
dude most people here hate code monkeys, but CS isn't that.

>>11466867
I have friends who graduated with a CS degree and business apps is all they work on. I'm obviously guesstimating those numbers from personal experience but you'd have to be blind not to realize that CS means web design, local networks, databases and things like that.
It's what the bulk of CS graduates work on. It's just a fact. Look up employment statistics if you want. I sure as hell won't because I know how it is.

>>11466704
CS + math double major, or even joint, is a natural combo. Stat is good too, especially if you want to do ML or any learning theory.

>>11466828
>90% of CS is web design
Not true. The web design market is actually going down now that you have platforms that allow unskilled people to assemble their own pages

>>11466883
>I have friends who graduated with a CS degree and business apps is all they work on.
I mean, it's braindead work and pays decently. But it's hardly the content of any decent CS degree.
>you'd have to be blind not to realize that CS means web design, local networks, databases and things like that.
CS generally means: algorithms, complexity theory, operating system design, databases, compilers, machine learning, etc.. These are the commonly associated terms. You have to be blind to look at your friends, who have taken a career not entrenched in stem, and think they "do CS."
>Look up employment statistics if you want. I sure as hell won't because I know how it is.
>I won't correct myself if I'm wrong!
Mate, I will tell you some interesting employment statistics - the majority of engineering grads do not do work in engineering. they mostly go to finance or business applications themselves. Are we suddenly to say that engineering is nothing but business apps and small time gigs at finance firms?

>>11466883
Everyone around me is like
>let me resolve problem A with library B
>let me resolve library B problem with library C
>let me resolve library C problem with library D and so on
>oh no you wrote your own solution why you didn't download a library like library X
Literally scum tier mentality, they want to do webdev and mobiledev indeed

>>11466885
I'm not talking about small websites. I'm talking about large companies with web based products that employ a fuckton of fresh CS graduates. Sometimes it's companies that you've never even heard of offering b2b services.

>>11466900
sounds like you go to a school with a less than decent CS undergrad population. people here are generally crazy to reinvent the wheel, much less actually implementing a novel library,.
>>11466906
Okay, and how does a bunch of CS students going into web based applications (I'm assuming you mean design components, not something like cryptographic web services, etc) have any bearing on academic CS? These people may bitch and moan about the degree, but they have no effect on research output or actual CS

this entire debate is just on semantics. i think everybody here has generally the same beliefs, but use different terms for it.

>>11467204
this is the vaguest post on the thread. What do you mean by 'same beliefs, different terms?'

ill summarise my experiences

>oversaturated with retards and generally creatively bankrupt, nonvisionaries
>I want to kill all preets and shrutis who open their mouth and impossibly thick accents come out
>some colleges jump on the 'cs is now a trade, kinda, keep giving us your money' and their course content is argued to be negatively affected
>I am now in a 'top school' for cs theory, surrounded by 90% international chinese students and I have made a big mistake, and will soon die.
I plan to learn everything and anything related to what makes me the most money after I get the degree, startups included

I took a CS class and it was nothing but neckbeards and trannies, sometimes both

>>11467581
>hurr durr my intro class was filled with dumbasses

>>11467601
*>hurr durr my intro class was filled with dumbasses
>so the whole major is like this

Math fags are mad because their degree is harder, but all the spotlight is on computer science and anyone with a compsci degree is seen as smart or 'the shit' while math is just boring and old. They are mad little babies crying out for attention on their low grade salary while chad CS grad makes 6 figures on graduating.

Nothing new.

>>11467779
Why don't they just change it lol. Why the fuck would anyone study math in this day and age?
This board is called science and math but 90% of the threads are related to everything but math.

>>11467779
>>11467802
you people are the reason CS is typically shit on.
CS is attacked here too much for the wrong reasons, but every single time you say some stupid shit like this, it lends credence to the memes dude

>>11467861
I don't even study CS tho or care about it. I'm studying biotechnology but again
>This board is called science and math but 90% of the threads are related to everything but math.
I just looked back and changed my mind
100% of the threads aren't related to math. It seems like math students are just insecure at this point.

>>11467883
Lmao what are you talking about
If we’re talking rudimentary, we have a “divide by zero” or “-1/12” thread everyday. Otherwise there’s the math generals that are always full of posts. Then the “how do I get good at X early math class,” “ahem fuck <algebra or analysis,” reading material threads, “you should be able to solve this” threads, etc.
You’re actually delusional if you don’t think math occupies a huge presence on this board

this board is literally filled with either; highschoolers or pseud's that read a few math books and literally think they're euler now. few people here are actually studying math and actually understand it.

>>11456960
why is this thread still alive? I'm tired of listening to these CS niggers.

>>11469184
basically this, undergrads have inflated egos
>>11469187
>I waltzed into a thread with people who disagree with me! Why is everyone disagreeing with me!?
you can just leave dumbfuck

>Software Engineering is easy shit for code monkeys
Only people who have written a very small amount of code actually believe this. There's a reason it pays so much, and that's because it's hard to write good code.

>>11470119
For good software engineering absolutely. A lot of jobs are in fact codemonkey tier though. The common software job is a lot of menial work, while the coveted positions have a ton of competition

>>11467434
>i hate the accent of my peers
i'd get if it were the teacher but being mad at the guy sitting next to you sounds autismo
>inb4 shut up preet

>>11470524
>A lot of jobs are in fact codemonkey tier though
None of these jobs are software engineering positions.

The entire reason I got into Computer Science is so I’d be on good speaking terms with the machines when the mechanical rebellion occurs roughly around 2063 or so.

>>11471088
wouldn't they hate you for writing shitty programs to run on their hardware?
they'd probably hate programmers the most since the competent ones are people who could oppose them

>>11456960
CS isn't a science or a math. It's the most profitable field in the world by far if you're smart tho.

>>11472293
>CS isn't a science or a math
>CS isn't a math
literally just look at >>11458400
how can you tell me complexity, domain theory, or analytic combinatorics isn't mathematics?

>>11459241
>studied mechanical engineering for 5 semesters before switching to computer science
Hey, that's me!
Except I spent 5 years getting a MechE BS and am currently studying CS at a community college.

>>11472365
Wait but that sounds like a waste.
It doesn’t sound like you want to do research or TCS, so why are you getting another degree to do software engineering?

>>11472329
holy shit you kids are so easy to get baited my god.

>>11472611
>I was just pretending to be retarded
okay anon

>>11456960
Because it's full of midwits

>>11472683
yeah, but so is engineering

>get CS degree
>apply to junior positions
>noone reaches me out for interviews
>been neeting for half a year
>lost my drive feel useless

I dont blame the degree I just wanted to rent
I blame capitalism and jews

>>11472968
rant*

>>11472968
Why don't you get creative with your knowledge and become your own boss? It's not like you need a lab with expensive equipment...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQIaRSXh4ic

>getting in CS for math in uni
>math proportion are small
>some student cant understand the basic algebra operation
>most rather skip the math classes

I feel like i'm cursed, should have gone for math or electrical engineering degree

>>11473474
Sounds like a bad CS program. Maybe you should switch to math or double major

I fell for the CS meme. CS undergrad was trash, but CS grad school is actually very math heavy and pretty tough. I really should've done math undergrad desu.

>>11456960
They make tools, they don't understand what the tool is used for and their field is a disorganized clusterfuck with ambiguous terminology.

>>11456961
It is both, math using science

>>11457078
It is winding up the clockwork slaves using math to tell them how often to do something you can break down anyone's carrer to make them look bad

>>11471088
>g
01101011 01100101 01101011

>>11456962
01100011 01101111 01101101 01110000 01110101 01110100 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110011 01100011 01101001 00100000 01101001 01101001 00100000 01100010 01101111 01110100 01101000 00100000 01101101 01100001 01110100 01101000 00101100 00100000 01110011 01100011 01101001 01100101 01101110 01100011 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100101 01101110 01100111 01101001 01101110 01100101 01100101 01110010 01101001 01101110 01100111

01001100 01100101 01110100 00100000 01110101 01110011 00100000 01000011 01010011 00100000 01100101 01101110 01100011 01110010 01111001 01110000 01110100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110011 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 01110011 00100000 01110011 01101111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101111 01101111 01110011 01100101 00100000 01000011 01010011 00100000 01101001 01010011 00100000 01101110 01001111 01110100 00100000 01010011 01100011 01001001 01100101 01001110 01100011 01000101 00100000 01101111 01010010 00100000 01101101 01000001 01110100 01001000 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 01101000 01101111 01101100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100000 01110101 01101110 01100100 01100101 01110010 01110011 01110100 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110101 01110011

>>11456960

>>248415195
>>248415297

There was a cyber attack on the U.S., do you guys have any idea who it was?

>>11474558

>>>/pol/248415195

>>11473837
>durr I think CS is only good for matlab and approximation techniques

>>11457055
sorry dude but i don't think there's a single group out there that aren't full of complete faggots. if you're going to let the people surrounding a subject completely deter you then you'll go nowhere.

>>11457055
>pajeets looking for what they perceive to be high paying and prestigious jobs
This applies to every STEM major in most US colleges

>>11475149
well somehow engineering gets a pass because I personally like it more

>>11456960
because 4chan, especially /sci/, attracts dunning krugers who think their better and smarter than everyone else and "CS" (or rather, software development) is a field where people with average and even low intelligence can get a job that pays more than nearly any other STEM job

The people on this board are generally mentally ill from a childhood of being brainwashed into thinking that they're gifted, and then being thrown into real life and realizing that they're just mediocre. At the same time, they see people that they perceive as "below them" being more successful then they are.

Therefore, they lash out at anyone who they perceive to be doing better than them - the same reason /pol/ lashes out at jews and ethnic men dating white women.

>>11472611
OK retard

>>11476325
>The people on this board are generally mentally ill from a childhood of being brainwashed into thinking that they're gifted, and then being thrown into real life and realizing that they're just mediocre. The people on this board are generally mentally ill from a childhood of being brainwashed into thinking that they're gifted, and then being thrown into real life and realizing that they're just mediocre.
I know a few people off of this board. Almost all of them touted "major in XYZ" but got filtered out by a basic analysis course or something similar. Now if anyone tells them analysis is used in CS in certain ways, or CS uses mathematics in any way that isn't for calculation, they generally start getting insecure that these people ended up getting more exposure to ideas they either couldn't get down pat, or that these people may be higher aptitude than they are.
Now, I do think software devs are more or less average, but there's no reason to look at actual CS and people who actually study CS and think they're any lesser students or aptitude than math students - and in fact there's generally large overlap between these students. In my experience in the US, they almost always tend to be double majors

>>11459228
>so least math intensive automatically = bad?
yes
>what the fuck is with this boards obsession with math
answered your own dumb question with
>i understand all science is rooted in math
>if you want a decent paying job and options
People who dont suck giant dicks arent in stem for the money

Everything is some variety of applied math now, ergo the most mathematically proficient are the most valuable

>>11461547
>went into stem to make money
How does it feel to know that fresh lawyers and mbas earn more than you by a factor or more?

>>11458502
>poo nigger
>computer scientist
>retarded cheap labor monkey
>we have a lot to learn from this
Checks out

>>11477049

>implying 75% of law graduates don't immediately become a paralegal or bottom tier associate sucking dick for 90 hours a week

>>11456960
cause 4chan is full of low iq redditors

>>11476325
>>11477144

>>11477038
good thing CS isn't the least math intensive.

>>11459894
Just because the foundations of computer science are based in mathematics does not imply your shit tier BSc in Cumputer Science is equivalent to a mathematics one.

>>11477894
No, but if anyone looks at any serious theory research in the CS departments, it's clear that CS and math papers are not only written in incredibly similar fashion, but they follow the same methodology of proposition-proof-lemma. Some codemonkey's degree in codemonkeying has no bearing on what computer science is or what its serious research entails, which is undeniably mathematics.

>>11466704
Drop the CS and go Math + Physics. CS at uni is not worth a penny. You can learn all of the stuff from books and youtube in a tenth of the time. Don't waste your time and money

>>11470119
>Implying
Writing good code is not hard, unless you are mentally challenged.

>>11456960
It is a field of brainlets, for brainlets by brainlets.
It's a trade school education that has no place in a serious university, even less so then gender studies.

>>11478732
you're fucking stupid out of your mind

>>11478732
get read to get utterly fucked
how many degrees do you have? It doesn't fucking matter. You think you're smart?

>>11475149
From my experience, pajeets tend to drop out of most engineering majors early. Not the case for CS

>>11478737
>>11478743
t. Triggered CS-lets

>>11478743
I don't consider my self very smart. But I can write much better code then people who studied CS, that I am sure of. That and the fact that writing good code is not hard.

>>11478763
no you don't

>>11466704
What >>11478727 said, at least in the US most CS degrees are closer to software engineering than actual CS. They always have at least 4 software development courses like design paterns, databases, etc. even the more "theorical" courses like data structures are taught with a code monkey mindset. If you're lucky you might do an intro to computability and complexity and an actual proof based algorithms course but that's it (discrete """""math""""" doesn't count)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReVeUvwTGdU

The only way to learn actual CS is to major in math and then do a CS PhD.

>>11457055
/thread

>>11478727
>You can learn all of the stuff from books and youtube in a tenth of the time. Don't waste your time and money
>implying you can't do physics theory from books and online lectures
>or anything for that matter
just study what you want.

>>11478812
This is true for like anything outside top 20 for CS, but as far as my experience ( double majored in math and CS, currently in grad school for math), top 20 CS, especially TCS, is more than fine. I wasn't really aware of the whole "you have a million software dev classes" until i saw people post their course list.

>>11478836
Most top "CS" schools I've seen are usually EECS like MIT which is closer to computer engineering than CS. Stanford seems the only one worth something mostly because you can literally take any course you want and you can make it as math heavy as you want.

>>11456960
>computer science
>Climate Chance

>SIMULATOR

>>11478856
>Stanford seems the only one worth something mostly because you can literally take any course you want and you can make it as math heavy as you want.
You can do this with any of the top CS programs that aren’t EECS. UPenn, u of Texas - Austin, cmu, Illinois- Champaign-Urbana, Rutgers, etc..

It's literally just jealously, because CS graduates have an simple career pathway that pays extremely well.

>>11480095
On the other hand you have to learn and practice all the time. It never ends, industry is advancing on really high speed and you have to learn new techniques, frameworks, technologies or you'll be useless in few years. If you have passion and time, it's great, but you can't say the same for code monkeys that go here just for "easy" cash.

>>11480095
I would say it's this but also combined with >>11457200
and>>11457055

There is truth to all of that. CS people just seem annoying and I'm not even a STEMfag, just someone who has observed them on /g/ and reddit and elsewhere.

>tfw 35 year old khv
>going back to uni to do CS because i hated my previous job (big4 CPA auditor)
>might do a minor in math, or maybe dual major with math
>will be twice the age of classmates
w-will i make it /sci/?

>>11480234
What about leaving big 4 or doing something more in the finance realm?

>>11478812
This.
Amerimutt college is so shit they were forced to turn CS into Software development

>>11480284
thought about it. i'm writing the 3rd CFA exam in June.

but the problem with finance, or even getting a good job outside of the big4, is you need connections to get jobs, and for connections you need social skills. i lack both connections and social skills

Because the entire board is FULL OF HATE AGAINST EVERYTHING