/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11440874
https://youtu.be/T9BC5PY_OaM
tfw no space race

>>11440889

>use massive hydrogen balloon to ascend as high as possible
>use hydrogen in balloon as fuel to enter space
>use balloon's envelope as parachute when landing

Why not?

>>11440894

>>11440885
>make a literal record that is supposed to represent the sum of humanity through the medium of music
>put chuck fucking berry on it
Shit like this makes me proud to be a burger

>>11440904

>>11440901
The bigger balloon, the easier it is to pop

>>11440908

>>11440906
>Shit like this makes me proud to be a burger
You sound like a cute anime girl. Can I fondle your aesthetically mutilated girlpenis?

>>11440908
>>11440911
>mercury control center
>looking at photos of earth

>>11440901
Interesting idea but.
>use massive hydrogen balloon to ascend as high as possible
Ballons don't really get that high. And getting to space is more about speed.

>use hydrogen in balloon as fuel to enter space
Hydrogen that is useful for balloons needs to be a gas, and hydrogen gas isn't very dense. So there wouldn't be much hydrogen to use. Look at the Space Shuttle tank, and notice how big the hydrogen tank is. That's just to carry liquid "dense" hydrogen.

>use balloon's envelope as parachute when landing
That could work though.

>>11440921
Cheeky.

>>11440924
folding it once it was inflated doesn't sound possible

>>11440917
No, I'm saving that honor for the teratoma child

Why isn't air launch to orbit more popular?

>>11440940
Probably because it's fairly limited. You need a huge plane to launch anything larger than some small sats, and that represents a larger technical challenge than just making a plain rocket. The only big benefit to plane rockets is to be able to launch from any latitude. Virgin Orbit has the right idea using a pre-existing plane though.

>>11440940
limits the size of your vehicle unnecessarily for little benefit
advantages air launch
>get to use vacuum nozzles from start
>maybe 200 m/s over ground launch
>a few thousand meters altitude over ground launch
>very flexible launch location and inclination
disadvantages of air launch
>vacuum nozzles have lower T/W and thrust/area ratios
>heavily constrained total weight and size limitations
>begin every flight with a very delicate (side mount!) separation event
>need to operate a dedicated airplane for it
>fueling the rocket in mid-air is a messy business if you use liquids and transporting a solid rocket in general is messy

in general it's just better to build a bigger first stage

I had a dream a few months ago where I came up with a method of launching rockets from the upper atmosphere for a fraction of the current cost.
I forgot all the important details by the time I woke up though.
I think it had something to do with balloons and tethers.

>>11440965
>>11440966
It's a shame that it isn't more viable. It seems like an interesting concept.
But I guess you guys are right, it's just not particularly practical for most applications.

>>11440980
did it involve using a skyhook and a balloon because that's been suggested before
it's a bad idea but also hilarious

Instead of a rover, why doesn't NASA send an airship to Venus?
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7604

>>11441006
why not a nuclear thermal ramjet

>>11441008
their problem is that the temperatures are too high on the surface, something that could be solved with an airship. It would be like a rover but faster and with more scientific payload.

>>11440994
I think it was a floating launch platform supported by large balloons.
The balloons may have been tethered to the ground at the equator and you winched the rocket up to the platform before launching it with conventional propellants.
This is going off a vaguely remembered dream though.

>>11440940
It is inefficient and really shitty. Only grant chasers use it.

>>11441006
because venus is always there and Mars only has a small window so it feels more exciting
I don't know, Venus is cool, but people get their dicks hard for Mars for some reason

>>11441067

>>11440991
If Earth's atmosphere were significantly thicker (like ten times current sea level pressure) then it could possibly make sense to do air platform launch. However, it isn't, so it doesn't.

>>11441066
Venus also has a launch window from Earth that takes ~1.5 years to open

>>11441114
>If Earth's atmosphere were significantly thicker
So Venus?

I think I just like the concept because the idea of motherships is very sci-fi.

>>11441125
I guess. I was thinking Titan too, but on Titan an air breathing jet engine can sling you up almost to escape trajectory, so in that case you aren't really doing air launch you're just doing SSTO. By the way, air-breathing jets work fine and are still way more efficient than rockets even if you have to supply both oxygen and fuel.

>>11441135
>I was thinking Titan too
Let's go to Titan!
>By the way, air-breathing jets work fine and are still way more efficient than rockets even if you have to supply both oxygen and fuel.
What do you mean?

>>11441114
Venus is the only place in the solar system that it makes sense, and even then that's only because you'd never want to go to the surface

>>11441135
at that point you're just heating up the atmosphere to produce thrust, and can use something much more efficient than fuel for that

NASA and space travel are saved :)

>>11441138
There's this myth that jet engines are more efficient than rockets because they can use oxygen from the air. That's incorrect. In reality, jet engines are more efficient than rockets because they taken in a huge amount of air mass and accelerate it backwards as exhaust using just a small amount of fuel. When you calculate the engine efficiency, you basically are seeing how much thrust you're getting out of every kg of propellant. For a rocket that's straightforward because everything leaving the exhaust was once stored in the tanks, but for a jet engine the vast majority of the mass exiting the nozzle is actually air that doesn't factor into the calculation. What this means is, if you go to Venus or Titan, and bring an air breathing jet engine plus an oxygen supply, you can burn your fuel with your oxygen and use the air as reaction mass to fly around just like you do on Earth.

>>11441149
Man, the propagandists really hate Warren for some reason.

>>11441148
Nuclear thermal is more efficient, but heavier, and more importantly people don't like it, so they'll protest your nuclear thermal air breathing jet engine and it'll encounter political resistance. Just wait for Mars and Moon colonization to be well underway and we'll have all our fancy nuclear propulsion systems, don't worry.

>>11441153
can't wait for Mars to become an independent nuclear power and Cold War 2 Electric Boogaloo to start

>>11441149
Holy fuck, I leave for two days
Also lol, Clinton ran again?

>>11441157
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

The Mars constitution grants an inalienable right of ownership to each citizen of Mars to one interplanetary ballistic missile with one 200 kiloton nuclear warhead attached, kept and maintained in working order, and that each citizen may be free to use their granted device for ANY purpose deemed not directly, physically harmful to any citizen of Mars, apart from their own self should they declare that be their choice in a formal and documented setting, free to public viewing.

>>11441151
>What this means is, if you go to Venus or Titan, and bring an air breathing jet engine plus an oxygen supply, you can burn your fuel with your oxygen and use the air as reaction mass to fly around just like you do on Earth.
Has anyone tried to do this? I mean, obviously they haven't attempted it, but has anyone scientifically studied this?
>>11441157
Not quite what you're describing, but check out an Outer Limits episode called "Phobos Rising."

>>11441157
>ywn see the Great Space War where the Terran Realm invades the UCMR after both of them split Luna between them, and then the Jovian States help the UCMR through lend lease

>>11441158
no people just wrote her name in

>>11441158
It's odds of winning.
Hillary has greater odds of winning than Warren, despite not even running :^)

>>11441168
>has anyone scientifically studied this?
Every engineer who's ever worked on developing jet engines, yeah.

An air-breathing jet engine works my taking in ambient air, compressing it, heating it, and then letting it expand out of a nozzle, generating thrust. Doesn't matter what the heat source is, so long as it is a high enough temperature difference between ambient and peak, and the compression ratio is high enough, your jet will produce thrust.

>>11441006
>why doesn't NASA send an airship to Venus?
That would be the old HAVOC concept, right? It was far too based to be supported.

>>11441170
Fucking hilarious.

>>11440874
I had a dream i got a job offer on Mars, but only if i clean the toilets. I took the offer. i met a girl. man it felt so real.

>>11441190
>That would be the old HAVOC concept, right?
That was a whole base, manned for some reason. A much smaller car-sized robot packed with instruments would be much more effective and you wouldn't kill people.

>The absolute state of SpaceX

>>11441231
Isn't that good though?

>>11441231
the bottleneck was never going to be the tiny satellites

>>11441231
Makes sense, those sats are pretty small and relatively simple. Although, I guess SpaceX is gearing Starlink in anticipation of Starship?

>>11441231
maybe it's time to figure out in-space satellite links

Fuck me I hope we get some REAL progress soon.

Test/Test/Explode by mistake is not REAL progress. "Move fast/break stuff" is a meme, they are breaking stuff without improvement. They should have switched to double-height rings by now.

>>11441258
But they are improving; speed is up, main tank welds are all good except for the thrust puck, the development of Starship is taking off like crazy

>>11441258
don't get spoiled, anon. Keep in mind they're still moving a billion times faster than any of their competitors bar maybe BO, but we don't really know.

>>11441258
just because YOU can't tell the difference between these different versions of Starship doesn't mean there aren't any differences

>>11440940
It might make a little sense for suborbital to carry the rocket away from densely populated area and to an altitude before starting the noisy main engine, but for the orbital the profit just isn't worth the trouble. The atmospheric part of the flight where any non-meme engines are of any use can gain you like 1 to 3% if the energy required to achieve orbit, while horizontally launched rocket would have much lower fuel to empty mass ratio due to structural condiderations, so unless you have a very good reason it's better to stay away from it.

>>11441258
> "Move fast/break stuff" is a meme
Because real progress comes from sinking in billions on a project that must absolutely work the first and every subsequent time untested.
People have no perspective. Some big steel tubes that cost a few mil and take a few months blow up and they're suddenly sure everything is destined to fail. That sheer lack of nerve is why we've been so fucked for so long.

>What went wrong?

>>11441300
He lost his maracas.

>>11441258
They're not just blowing up stuff for fun, anon. They're setting up a production line, hiring and training people, streamlining the logistics, all while also figuring out how much they can half-ass things, starting from the absolute bottom. Doing it the old space way would end with a contraption costing billions to develop, maintain and launch that you're too fucking scared to touch because every minor change opens a literal back hole in your pocket or makes it potentially less reliable which you absolutely cannot afford because it already cost so much and no real optimization is possible.

>>11441300
Not enough pork.

>>11441351
The two cars perform identically but the one on the right costs more

>>11441374
It was a post of matching quality, gotta admit.
I don't know much about cars but weren't ones from that period safer, sporting more much efficient exhaust filters, using more/more advanced electronics which improved handling and comfort?

>>11441374
The one on the right has way more safety features, uses better materials, and probably costs about the same (adjusted for inflation).

SN2 test section came together quite quickly. I don't think it will be long for SN3

>>11441374
Shouldn't the more modern car also be more fuel efficient? I'm not following automotive developments whatsoever.

>>11441404
It would be more fuel efficient if not for all the extra weight.

>>11441398
How long till they can pop two tin cans a week?

>>11441409
Wasn't the industry also moving from more rigid and heavy frames towards lighter alloys which crumble like paper to absorb more energy in case of an impact?

>>11441418
Yes, but everyone wants stuff like power windows, heated seats, and the government keeps mandating new safety features. Even with new materials, It all adds weight. That being said, there's been lots of developments to improve power and efficiency (eg even kia's have turbos these days).

>>11441412
Well Musk said he‘d want ten times the amount of people working in Boca by the end of the year...

>>11441432
Makes sense. And the lowered fuel consumption per arbitrary unit or distance is what's allowing for all those bells and whistles, so I guess it's still one more point in favour of the newer car.

>>11440889
How did they put that fishtank on her head? The entrance seems way too small

>>11441452
Better question is how does she maintain that exquisite hairstyle in zero G?

>>11440940
>Why don't rockets use air breathing jet engines for their first stage?

>>11441454
It's obviously stiff and sticky from all the coffee she keeps trying to drink from a cup in zero G

>>11441523
That would be the one thing I'd miss the most if I went to space. My freshly ground cup of coffee right out of my machine in the morning.
Coffee Instant Type A with a fucking straw can not compare to a freshly brewed cup of monsooned malabar or something similar with a fine layer of crema on top with the full aroma blasting you in the face.

>>11441530
Maybe they put her in a fishtank exactly to stop the idiot from spilling liquid everywhere, causing shorts in equipment. But look at that enlightened face, something this minor is obviously not going to stop her from enjoying a good cup of coffee

>>11440874

How will the "jeff who" crowd react when New Glen becomes the most capable rocket in the world whilst Spacex continues to blow cup tin cans because their 200 IQ engineers can weld two pieces of metal properly?

>>11441552
What's that vagina cross-section thing

>>11441452
its only half

>>11441556
its designed to capture Elon, so Bezos has a chance.

>>11441552
>only 40t to LEO

The absolute state of Blue Virgin

>>11441666
It’s actually 45 tons to LEO in a reusable configuration, find me a payload that weighs more than 45 tons. Also, it can send 13 tons to GTO in reusable mode.

>>11441552
bald man pls go

bald man bad

>>11441737
He is though.

>>11441552
What is that curvy bit underneath and why does it make the whole thing look kind of like a dolphin with a boner?

>>11441746
>What is that curvy bit underneath

It’s an instrument scanning for potential defects in the fairing.

>>11441692
>New Glenn
>reusable
only the first stage is reusable

>>11441846
Yes?

>>11441166
based and freedompilled

>>11441846
SpaceX achieved first stage reusability years ago. By the time New Glenn is flying it will have to compete with a fully reusable rocket. What is even the point of New Glenn?

>>11441351
Hey now, let's get real here.

>>11441862
To have actual american company that plays nice with national interests and follows established space strategies instead of some unpredictable cult that changes course every 3 months?

>>11441258
Why should they switch to double height rings when the current ones work fine?
All the problems so far have been with domes.
You are suggesting literally fix what aint' broke and that's always a recipe for disaster.

>>11441882
Those are rather questionable innovations

>>11441894
>the smartphone
>modern personal computers
>questionable innovations
although cars haven't really gotten that much better—at least not on the order of magnitude of the smartphone and PC.

>>11441894
>>11441900
Well, nothing much of real note has been innovated in the past 30 years. NASA just crawled into a grant chasing hole and got all comfy. Smartphones only brought together some already existing tech into one form factor. The things computers can do now is pretty much the same thing as what they could do in 1990. Only everything needs to be more powerful with more resources in order to not choke on buggy code, ad shit, anti-ad shit, and built-in spyware that ravages everything now.

>>11441887
>american company that plays nice with national interests
That's a really shitty attitude that will only doom the world in the end.

>>11441906
this is what happens when you give these things to pajeets and jews
what did you really expect?

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/inside-elon-musks-plan-to-build-one-starship-a-week-and-settle-mars/

Berger's latest fangasm over Musk.

>>11441908
This. National interests are to have space progress slowly, with no major fundamental shifts in the way things are done, in order to keep everything as static and easy to predict as possible. Meanwhile in order to actually achieve anything in spaceflight we're going to have to effectively purge the entire industry and replace it with fast, cheap, flexible launch systems, and actually use them to economically go to and industrialize other objects in space.

>>11441926
Exciting

>>11441926
Progress is so rapid that Elon doesn't even have time to tweet about things
Also, free hot meals for shift workers in Starship land? Sign me the fuck up.

>>11441983
Have you not seen the pictures of the resident taco truck?

>>11441926
>NOOO YOU CAN'T COMPLIMENT PEOPLE DO BIG THINKS
>I HATE THE BILLIONARE CLASS
>WHY DON'T THEY SPEND MONEY ON POOR PEOPLE INSTEAD OR THE STARVING MARVIN IN AFRICA?

>>11441926
Propaganda.

>>11442030
did you read it? It makes him sound like an asshole

>>11441926
Why don't the US government shut down Starship development? We don't need our tax dollars going to some rich billionaire's toy so he can go off and abandon earth. We should nationalise SpaceX and shut them down.

>>11441926
>their faces when white people could finally find a way to exist without their grubby fingers

>>11441999
No, but nice trips

>>11442036
>We don't need our tax dollars going to some rich billionaire's toy so he can go off and abandon earth.
I know you're a troll, but it's not like every single dollar being spent on Starship is not being injected into the economy. That's how spending works. Elon is literally creating hundreds of middle class skilled jobs right now.

So uh, why haven't rockets always been built using the cheapest methods that are still reliable? I feel like a Falcon 9 sized rocket using Starship steel construction techniques would be cheaper (while still an expendable vehicle) than current reusable Falcon 9.

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1235566551534678016?s=21
New Glenn shit in here

>>11442097

>>11442093
"aerospace grade materials" is a huge meme that oldspace clings on to because it allows them to spend a billion extra dollars on overengineering.

>>11441900
The very latest cars *are* a big step up, at least outside of burgerland: considerably more efficient, stuffed full of driver assistance that is genuinely useful such as emergency auto-brake, lane assist, networked satnav etc. My gf's brand new Skoda Karoq pretty much drives itself - I was amazed how much easier lane assist especially makes things.

>>11442107
>"aerospace grade materials" is a huge meme that oldspace clings on to

>>11441552
>Half a fairing
Oh boy, making some REAL progress now!!
Call me when the BE-4 actually powers something other than a test stand.

>>11442093
To add to >>11442107, it's also because cheap simple materials like with Starship don't really scale down well. A Falcon 9 built like Starship would have too much dry mass to be able to carry the same payload as the normal Falcon 9. The "build it simple stupid" method really only works at large scales, and the space flight industry never really needed such large scales.

>>11441887
If by "national interests" you mean "grant farming for excessive jobs and money" then sure. BO is in bed with ULA already.

>>11442130
Lol retard, look no further: >>11442097

Also, just because BE-4 isn’t being attached to some shitty test article that can’t go more than two flights without permanently falling to pieces, doesn’t mean it isn’t making progress. The first BE-4s to power Vulcan will be handed over to ULA in May.

>>11442138
>The first BE-4s to power Vulcan will be handed over to ULA in May.
Don't you mean July next year?

>>11442138
>Call me when the BE-4 actually powers something other than a test stand.
>Lol retard, look no further
>https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1235566551534678016?s=21

I saw some shit being milled and a CGI rocket.
BE-4 is still a paperweight and hasn't flown.

>>11442145
May, as in two months time.

>>11442146
>I saw some shit being milled

Yes, barrel tank sections for New Glenn.

>BE-4 is still a paperweight

Wtf does this mean, is this boomerspeak?

>and hasn't flown.

It’s hard for something to fly when it’s launch vehicles aren’t ready yet.

>>11442158
>May, as in two months time.
Wait. What's happening in May? I was referring to the first launch of Vulcan.

>>11442190
He means they're giving ULA the engines for Vulcan in may

>>11441738
for you

>>11442107
Sure kid. Lets make apaceships outbof the same plasticbyou use for your incel hentai figurines. Surely they will be fine sustaining a -100 +300 centigrades temperature range 1 atm pressure and 300 hz of macrovibrations upon 5 different strata of the atmosphere

>>11442330
Yeah, why wouldn't it? You see the things people do to those figurines?

>>11442347
>after a third welding failure, SpaceX decides to make Starship out of the same plastic that anime figurines are made from
>the world's largest "hot glue" gun is made to test the new prototypes

>>11442097
Blue looks desperate. What happened to being secret until completely ready? They're scrambling to show any sign of progress now.

>>11442360
probably potential clients want them to advertise more since it seems to work out well for SpaceX

>>11441891
>works fine
>works
>fine
>this_is_fine.explosion

>>11442330
>not making your ablative heat-shield out of figurines of other anon's shit-tier waifus
Just press 'em all together into an expendable layer of bad taste.

>>11442330
Hoo boy right out of the gate with the buzzwords, I'm sensing...seethe, in this post. Steel is not plastic, it's much more economically efficient to use in any heavy lift rocket the size of Starship or Saturn, not to mention much easier to work with and weld compared to high grade aluminum alloys. There is no practical reason why a rocket needs to cost the GDP of a small country to design, assemble, and then launch, except to defraud taxpayers by funneling money into excessively overdesigned projects.

>>11442365
SpaceX work because Elon's personality is out there and genuinely autistic. Blue's recent preview looks artificial, that's the problem.

>>11442370
What kind of political compass is that?

>>11442360
I'll take it over them not showing anything until the last minute.

>>11442378
Dunno, I never got those things.

>>11441891
Double height rings would cut down significantly on stacking time, and while the failures have been in domes it can never hurt to have the whole rocket be more structurally sound. SpaceX should also just buy a couple of giant 9m plate dishing machines, that would let them turn out a very strong single-piece dome every few days, then there will only be one weld needed to attach it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFzxgSD4DRE

>>11441746
that's the dolphin sex module

I still don't understand WHY Boca Chica of all places? From a talent and shipping perspective it seems so illogical.

>>11442404
They better hire you fast then.

>>11442429
Probably because its the most southern east-facing coast in the US outside of Florida, and that it doesn't have any large infrastructure in the way.

>>11442429
It's the difference between owning and renting. The other side of the continent also doesn't work, for now, because of overflights.

>>11442360
>Blue looks desperate. What happened to being secret until completely ready?

That was never their strategy, their actual PR strategy (according to BO employees) is that they keep quiet until they reach a significant milestone, like for example: a new engine test firing, new factory opening, or completed fairings and tank barrels. So it’s natural their PR would pick up the closer they get to launching New Glenn + they just hired a head of PR for the first time ever.

>>11442431
Elon's already doubled the crew at the BC site, basically overnight after SN1 shucked it's puck. Shit I feel like I should put in an application and just see what happens.

>>11442443
if you just show up, they will unironically probably hire you.

>>11441999
it's a texas bbq truck now.

mars rover name reveal stream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zni3MLBHDaY
starts in 20 minutes

>>11442451
Vision or we riot

>>11442453
no, CLARITY
it's on theme with Opportunity and Curiosity

>>11442451
I'm in favor of Tenacity.

>>11442453
>Curiosity 2: Thermoelectric Boogaloo

>>11442458
I’m sorry but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for 2020 Vision, Clarity is nice but can wait.

>>11442429
Close to equater, huge open ocean that's lightly used, can be utilized for frequent launches without too much impact to others, Texas building is also close to McGregor for engine tests and NASA, cheap land, can do polar launches, etc

>>11442469
>can do polar launches
only if you completely ignore Mexico, it goes right over Mexico City

>>11442473
>only if you completely ignore Mexico
I do that all the time

>>11442469
>>11442473
It’s the southernmost launch site in the US, but the benefit of being slightly closer to the equator pales in comparison to that of French Guyana, for example.

>>11442478
yes, me too, and most of the flight would be over Cartel territory, but it's still bad optics

>>11441900
>bendy phone
A meme
>Lexus
Who the hell looked at it and said "yeah it looks good"
>$6000 cheese grater
laughing_sataniya.gif

>>11442451
T E N A C I T Y or bust

>>11442480
>Run superheavy in expendable mode and drop it on Narco compounds using the fins to guide it in like a 250 ton glide bomb.
Mexico would pay for deliberate flyovers gladly.

>>11442501
they couldn't afford the expendable Super Heavy launch lol

IT'S STARTING

>Virginia
so it's Endurance then?

booooooooo
literally the worst one

>>11442515
Perseverance

>>11442515
>not Perseverance

>Perseverance
Could be worse.

>Perseverance
The mission names are just as fucking boring as the missions themselves are getting.

So what's different about this rover? Is it like a more advanced moving miniature laboratory? Sorry just got off work, haven't seen anything

>>11442525
At least this mission is going to do stuff that'll (hopefully) lay some groundwork for a manned mission.

ree, I would have preferred Tenacity.

>>11442528
It's an improved Curiosity.

>>11442531
I'm not optimistic, it's probably going to lead to 20 years of "Oh no! Now we have a new rover out there doing the things, so we don't need to send people!".

>>11442538
unfortunately for you, SpaceX don't plan on waiting for NASA

>>11442528
>Blue looks desperate. What happened to being secret until completely ready?

It’s a clone of Curiosity made out of spare parts from it’s predecessor, has different instruments that are more focused on searching for life and incremental design improvements over Curiosity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_2020

>>11442528
More of the same. Supposedly they slightly improved the wheels but we'll see eventually.

>>11442538
>>11442531
What has curiosity accomplished the most so far? Mapping and mineral data?

>>11441926
>spacex hired 250 mexican welders in a single night
>they started the next morning
what the fu

>>11442545
SpaceX doesn't get to have a space program, SpaceX is a contractor, nothing more.

>>11442550
Delaying human exploration a couple more years.

>>11442528
Carries a proper coring drill, and I think some kind of system for extracting oxygen, as a test to see what will be needed for human habitation later.

>>11442531
>hopefully
Yeah no.

>>11442538
>Oh no! Now we have a new rover out there doing the things, so we don't need to send people!
Fuck those kinds of people. They can continue taking days to dig a coffee cup sized hole while real space flight is being done.

>>11442528
It has a small drone copter that will fly and scout locations and the rover will cache samples for a potential future sample return mission. Otherwise an improved Curiosity made partially with spare parts.

>>11441552

They'll still be #2 behind SpaceX.

>>11442560
SpaceX should land the first MarsShip a mile off from it, have some crew disembark and pose in front of it.

>>11442570
Yes senator they should definitely do something to provoke nationalization I agree.

>>11442550
Landed on Mars using a system that doesn't rely on lithobraking, the largest so far I think. Discovered that aluminum wheels aren't really that durable. Found evidence of Mars having rivers long ago. That's off the top of my head.

>>11442564
Also, many of the experiments are focused on detecting microbial life

>>11442570
unironically though, I'm sure they will go and retrieve some of the old rovers

>>11442570
SpaceX should have set up shop in a country that didn't have a space program to begin with if they wanted to have a say. They can lobby until they're blue in the face, but they don't have the clout of oldspace.

>>11442577
Nationalizing SpaceX is a meme. Landing the largest craft on Mars right next to a NASA rover isn't going to provoke anything other than maybe some strong words from NASA's rover team.

>>11442578
There’s also this which happened recently:

https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=X2UaFuJsqxk

>>11442554
>SpaceX doesn't get to have a space program
they're already launched their own payloads BEO with no input required from NASA

>>11442582
That's what some germans did in the 70's and guess what the glowies did to them.

>>11442601
>they're already launched their own payloads
They launched a payload test. Stop pretending otherwise.

>>11442601
Manned and scientific missions are different there are strict protocols to be followed in addition to manned rating. No private company will be given those. Ever.

>>11442601
Only if you count the roadster as a payload, instead of a non-functional piece of decaying carbon fibre in solar orbit.

>>11442578
>Found evidence of Mars having rivers long ago.
Spirit/Opportunity found that.
Curiosity did further research on it.

>>11442611
>Ever
You're slipping feddie, day of the colony drop SOON.

>>11442608
>>11442614
If they can send the mass there, then they can send more meaningful payloads.

>>11442579
The helicopter is the only thing I'm excited about with the new rover. I think it'll be a fascinating experiment, although I'm pretty sure it will take off and crash from the first gust of wind.

aside from starship, space has been kind of boring lately

>>11442611
Not really, it’s just that scientific missions don’t generate profit and private companies run off profit.

>>11442611
you type and sound like a 14 year old bro

>>11442611
>manned rating
FUD and a meme, the only organization in charge of who can launch is the FAA and the only organization in charge of who can transmit is the FCC
the FAA's requirements for "man rating" are that the astronauts "informed consent" under the experimental vehicle rules
the FCC just makes sure you're not going to blow out everybody's satellite antennas with your transmissions

there are ZERO real hurdles once SpaceX have a functioning vehicle

>>11442627
There's that necromancer satellite trying to revive a comsat. That's pretty interesting.

>>11442627
Only if your living under a rock

>>11442591
which one drew the penis?

>>11442621
How fucking dense are you? They're not sending jack shit without the government's say so.
And the government is not allowing jack shit beyond LEO that's not NASA. Musk himself said the roadster was a payload test that was dressed up to be a glorified PR stunt.

>>11442633
>there are ZERO real hurdles
Keep believing that.

>>11442636
LEWD

>>11442611
>strict protocols to be followed
>manned rating
Tell that to the dude who recently cratered in his backyard rocket, and the guy that died while testing the Virgin Orbit vehicle.
These are private people/companies. As long as no one is forced to do anything, or a product isn't open to the general public, there isn't as much red tape.

>>11442645
government runs on rules and regulations bro and the rules and regulations right now say SHALL ISSUE PERMITS
get fucked FUDnigger

>>11442579
>pic
Wait, this is real?

>>11442645
>And the government is not allowing jack shit beyond LEO that's not NASA.
Beresheet wasn't with NASA though.

>>11442652
>SHALL ISSUE PERMITS
Yeah, to LEO.
Enjoy your "space tourism", bro.

>>11442645
>They're not sending jack shit without the government's say so.
They already did? Kindly stop posting

>>11442628
Even that's only marginally true, because so long as there's a reasonable chance that research can bear fruit, companies will be willing to invest in it. Some Canadian battery company just partnered with John Goodenough in the past couple days/weeks to finally begin developing the glass-electrode battery for mass production. Those power cells will push EVs to both a cost and range scale that will outstrip ICVs and make a bunch of other consumer electronics substantially better. It would also have some impact in small and medium lift rocketry at least, since the Goodenough cell would have the kind of discharge power and capacity to power electrical turbomachinery without being excessively heavy or expensive.

>>11442656
yeah they're sending the roflcopter to Mars

>>11442657
Did they launch from the US? Were they a US company?
SpaceX is.

>>11442659
government makes no distinction between BEO and LEO

>>11442639
This is the most significant achievement milestone of the human race in terms of Mars exploration.

>>11442627
"Things aren't spoon fed to me in video streams, so nothing interesting is happening"
Holy hell, go do some research anon

>>11442634
>>11442636
robots are boring to most people

>>11442671
they launched on a Falcon 9

>>11442652
Never happening for beyond low earth orbit and even that's pushing it.

Everything beyond leo is government's turf and it's only a matter of time that is written into law one way or another.

No country will ever risk the potential problems of out of control private interests in space.

>>11442671
>Did they launch from the US?
Yes.

>Were they a US company?
Nope.

>>11442681
yeah why do you think Elon's going so fast, he's going to try to get people on Mars before they can shut that window and then they'll have no choice but to continue allowing him to go because if they stop him they'll kill hundreds of American Citizens on Mars

>>11442671
Oh Anon, you've BTFO yourself, Beresheet was launched on a Block-5 Falcon 9.

>>11442679
>>11442686
Yeah, I actually went and read that. Still, that was an Israeli mission. Not a US one. Different rules.
SpaceX is not a country.

>>11442681
Stop being so pessimistic. Opening up space to private companies is what allowed for the price of access to space to drop tendentiously. It allowed for the rapid development of technologies that would've been practically impossible to develop through purely governmental means nowadays. It's clear that private space is giving the United States a huge edge in space flight, and it would be incredibly stupid of them to lock that down while other nations who don't share American sensibilities catch up.

>>11442667
Have any of the people in on this project ever flown a quadcopter outside before?

>>11442667
>roflcopter
God, I miss that meme.

>>11442681
nah, that's retarded. Property law is a clusterfuck, but it's not an insurmountable one and it's nowhere near significant enough to be a roadblock to private space travel. Then what? Spacecraft as weapons? LEO is the place where they're most dangerous. There's no reason beyond your imaginary "the government no likey" to limit private companies to LEO.

>>11442700
pure sex

>>11442711
schwascwhaschwa

A YouTube version of the New Glenn tank video:

https://youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=avg0XZU2OBo&feature=emb_title

>>11440874
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avg0XZU2OBo
Elon cucks on suicide watch

>>11442735
>>11442739
Great minds think alike

>>11442723
Isn't it soisoisoisoi?

>>11442735
New Glenn uses Aluminum tanks? I thought they used some kind of composite?

>>11442770
That was ditched fairly on in the design process, but is still an option in the future apparently.

https://spacenews.com/axiom-to-fly-crew-dragon-mission-to-the-space-station/

>1 "professional" astronaut, 3 private astronauts
>NET second half 2021

>>11442787
Boing! might even have all of the programming spaghetti cleaned out of their capsule by that time.

>>11442787
I’m just wondering what exactly these people are going to do on the ISS, apparently the professional astronauts got really pissed off with previous tourists who went up on Soyuz in the past; due to them basically being dead weight when it comes to experiments, getting in the way of the aforementioned science and being extra mouths to feed. If your gonna send tourists up there probably needs to be a commercial segment of the ISS first (which Axiom are contracted to build funnily enough).

>https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/inside-elon-musks-plan-to-build-one-starship-a-week-and-settle-mars/
>They will work three 12-hour days and then have a four-day weekend. Then they’ll work four 12-hour shifts with a three-day weekend. Thus, with four shifts, the Boca Chica site can operate at full capacity 24 hours a day, seven days a week. SpaceX is throwing in hot meals every three to four hours, for free.
Pretty based work schedules.

>>11442813
remember the work is probably very intensive, it's not like chilling in your cubical 40 hours a week. they need long breaks for a reason.

>>11442812
Yea interrupted all their tucking busy work lol how horrible

>>11442796
cant do that without another $250 million to ensure the rewrites are up to the standard befitting the Boeing heritage.

>>11442813
Also only Spanish on the job site is allowed

>>11442821
Yeah but 4/3 day weekend every other week is something most people would love to have. 12 hour day is a small sacrifice in comparison.

>>11442812
>Oh no! Don't get in the way of the micro-g flower smelling experiment! How dare you try to find excitement in space flight!

>>11442813
this sounds like a great schedule 2bh

>>11442813
>>11442821
Ow oof, I think I'd be fucking insensate at the end of a 12 hour shift, I imagine that this will improve over time though as they hire on more people. I'd wager the brutal shifts now are the result of still having too few hands on deck to reliably have 3 people (for 3, 8-hour shifts) assigned to every single task.

>>11442837
they said it's how they do it in tesla factories, so i imagine that the brutal shift work will be a normal thing there

>>11442837
it's not bad if you get to:
A. eat hot meals
B. sit down while eating hot meals
C. get paid good

>>11442813
Shit, I've done worse in far worse climate. I used to do 12 hours shifts outside in winter 30+ meters above sea level at the edge of the Northern Atlantic with no cover from the elements, 6 days in a row. 2 weeks on, 1 week off. One hot meal if you had the time to get down to the canteen before your paid half hour of lunch was over, otherwise, cold packed sandwiches.

Crazy pay, miserable life.

>>11442812
The fuck they gonna do? Steal their freshly baked cookies?

>>11442862
They might accidentally do something that advances space flight a couple of years, destroying billions in potential revenue through grants.

>>11442879
The horror!

>>11442882
Shut up Jim and get back to making out with Elon.

>>11442886
Unless you want Elon to get ill as well...

So would launching a giant mirror into space above a solar field make it more efficient enough to offset the R&D costs at Starship-tier prices?

>>11442591
i know everyone hates on nasa itt but that this is still plodding on 7 years later is awesome to me.

>>11442895
Helps that it has an RTG.

>>11442895
I don't hate NASA, I like them. They're the most capable space program on the planet and can do lots of amazing things, but their mission ethic is poor and it leads to lots of a disappointment.

>>11442900
I'm in the same boat, I love NASA, I hate that politicians run it into the ground and that they have an extremely low risk culture as a result of it.

>>11442895
>If you hate 50 billion dollar blackhole to nowhere, you must hate NASA
okay

>>11442899
And that it's the largest rover ever. Some of that extra mass probably went into making everything more robust.

>>11442893
no
also, there's no "above" unless you're out at GEO and that's so far away it doesn't matter

>>11442905
That it did. None of that flimsy shit that breaks down if you sneeze at it sideways.

>>11442904
>50 billion dollar blackhole to nowhere
SLS? That's "only" $10B?

>>11442900
>>11442902
>longs for a return of von brauns nasa

>>11442911
Doesn't everyone want to go back to a time when we actually went to space? When there was more to look forward to than someone yeeting out pods full of cubesats?

>>11442911
That probably won't happen until we all retire, and it'll be gradual. With the explosion of private space companies driving down costs, the current meek budget of NASA would then be more than enough to do some serious things and the management will shift to take advantage of that. Just merely farming project money won't work anymore either, because if NASA doesn't do it, then some private company will and that would look bad on the agency. The shift will be slow though, unless China or a private company beats NASA to the moon.

>>11442913
yes. although i realise that using a meme arrow and wording it that way made it sound like i disproved of the longing.

>>11442913
I don't. I don't want to go back in time. I want to go forward to a time when we're doing the "other thing" Kennedy mentioned.

>>11442909
More like $100 million. SLS is the cheapest rocket EVEr.

>>11442926
>$100 million
Where are you getting that value from?

>>11442922
Yeah, I don't particularly want to go back in time either, but I do want to go find a similar mindset again, where people find their balls again and are willing to give up their creature comforts and go take risks and actually explore shit. I'm not some fucking retard yearning for some comic book 50s that never existed, but we've lost something significant, and that's the sense of marvel at what may lie over the horizon.

>>11442913
>Doesn't everyone want to go back to a time when we actually went to space?

Umm we still go to space today on Soyuz, we will soon on Crew Dragon + Starliner and did after Apollo with Shuttle...

What are you trying to imply?

>>11442927
By /r/SpaceLaunchSystem's calculation, SLS is only $1 million dollar per launch

>>11442931
>Umm we still go to space
No, we go splash around in the kiddy pool. Safely protected within the Earth's magnetic field. That's not space.

>>11442932
Got a link to that?

>>11442931
leo is stepping out of your front door onto the welcome mat and saying you've been outside.

>>11442932
>SLS is only $1 million dollar per launch
>Project cost: US$7 billion (2014-2018; 2014 estimate)
Does that mean they built 7 million rockets by 2014 already? Man, they sure are an industrious lot. What a bargain.

>>11442934
He’s just taking the piss, SLS is currently $1.6 billion per launch.

Wide load coming through...

>>11442944
Nice. Which launch is that for?

>>11442944
phat

>>11442944

>>11442948
Probably NROL-70 in 2022, ULA are trying to get all the remaining Delta 4 Heavy cores out the factory to make space for Vulcan. For example, the Delta 4H for NROL-44 has been outside in the VAB since autumn 2019...

>>11442944
is this the final Delta IV Heavy launch yet?

>>11442959

>>11442961
No, look at the manifest: >>11442959

Is ISS just going to reenter. Why don’t they push it it out into
Space to preserve it as a museum for the future.

>>11442969
hmmm, niggers
gas generators need to die

>>11440885
>Billions of years later a developing civilization picks up an ancient alien artefact in space
>It's obviously some sort of data storage
>What's recored on it, a secret to eternal life? A cure for all diseases? A blueprint of a free energy generator?
>No, it's just some music they particularly fancied at that moment of time

>>11442939
If musk can do it, then so can anyone else. Musk is not GOD. Stop worshiping him. He's a fraud. He's not engineer. He's a sales guy.

>>11442974
it's literally "Hello World", where to find us, and some music we liked
the most instagram of posts

>>11442976
everyone here wishes they had a newspace company. but we're all poor, so not anyone can do it.

>>11442585
By the time they could get there, the rover team would have a long list of places for them to check with actual humans.
But unless they land the rover anywhere near whare SpaceX might want to land, it ain't gonna happen.

>>11442974
better than right triangles or prime numbers or some other bullshit.

>>11442620
Poor Australia, forever doomed to be a re-entry destination.

>>11442997
you forgot Skylab

HULLO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRkFwc9234

>>11442634
>That's pretty lewd.
ftfy

>>11443000
I didn't, it just wasn't in the picture. But I >implied it as hard as I could.
Also nice digits.

>>11442633
>the FAA's requirements for "man rating" are that the astronauts "informed consent" under the experimental vehicle rules
For instance, Mad Mike "I am the Drill That Will Pierce the Earth" Hughes

>>11443013
Reported for a not-safe-for-work image on a work-safe board.

>>11443013

>>11443007
To be fair, they were launching it from Australia.

>>11443007
this is embarrassing.

>>11442976
>If musk can do it
That's a big if that remains unproven.

>>11442995
At least those have some universal meaning. Meanwhile the aliens could have a completely different hearing mechanism that would pick it up as meaningless noise or none at all and would be left eternally puzzled at what did we mean by that

Is Covid-19 expected to ground astronaut crews in the foreseeable future? Will the ISS sit vacant for some interval before its decommission/re-entry? Are there any indications that planned CNSA flights have been scrubbed, or postponed?

>>11443049
no

>>11443049
What happens if the station gets sick??

>>11443068
russians die

>>11443072
Wtf I love caronnavirus now

>>11442453
God dammit its perseverance. So fucking stupid. Opportunity missed (no pun intended)

>>11443049
As long as we don't all suddenly turn into zombies, they'll be fine up there. The parked Soyuz capsules are always ready for an emergency return, and it's not like we can't quarantine new astronauts before they go up.

>>11443109
My Spirit is broken, what a fruitless Endeavor. Losing to some upstart Challenger like that makes the whole thing seem like a pointless Enterprise.

>>11443068
some actual useful science might be forced to happen, god forbid

>>11442944
AUUUUGH THICCER

>>11442944
"Rocketdyne" is such a cool name. The -dyne suffix has a great retro-futuristic flair, I wish people still used it.

>>11442974
Well what would you put on it fag

>>11443231
Hentai and the formula for mustard gas.

>>11443224
I've always had a dream of doing a rocket club or startup with "dyne" in the name or something retro like that.

>>11443286
I would put this

>>11443224
>>11443293

Join his discord server.

https://discord.gg/ZCWtZFS

>>11442739
>Oh no a competitor to Falcon Heavy
>lmao

>>11442821
>they need long breaks for a reason
The long breaks are because they will be switching from days to nights between groups of shifts. It takes time to swap your sleep. I used to do 2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off, etc, swapping between days/nights each time, and it sucked. The 12 hours days were fine, it was the constant altering of when you had to got o sleep and wake up. Getting off days on thursday knowing you didn't go back until monday night was nice.

>>11442837
A 12 hour shift goes by much faster than you think. I worked 12 hour shifts (days and nights) for four years, only quit when I had an opportunity to go to school again.

>>11442905
>>11442908
>ALUMINUM
>WHEELS

>>11443125

This show had a sequence where the astronaut entered his capsule and returned to Earth, and they used a t/Space capsule model for it.

>>11442813
Good read.

Legit, this give me confidence in the Starship Project.

>>11443339
>t/Space capsule model
A what?

>>11443358

A company Gary Hudson founded around 2004-5 to compete for COTS and stuff. Can't find a pic of their stuff right now.

>>11443309

*for spaceflight discussion

>>11443343
it's the original NASA/von Braun Space Shuttle plans from the late 60s/early 70s that NASA were too cowardly to commit to, with the added benefit of autonomous command and control and vertical landing, enabled by improvements in avionics in these last fifty years
those improvements enable significantly better margins to orbit than the von Braun plans predicted, which enables the whole "just refuel the shuttle in orbit and then it's also the Mars descent module" plan that SpaceX have baselined

>>11443358

https://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2005-09/can-small-start-build-americas-next-spaceship/

>>11443389
I appreciate the link, but I am not turning off adblocker

Are they really destroying Starship prototypes "on purpose" or is something horribly wrong with the fundamental design

>>11443397
http://archive.is/wr746

>>11443402
the purpose of destroying them is to determine precisely what is wrong with the design and production process so they can fix it.

>>11443402
this one wasn't on purpose but it's a fixable problem

>>11443406
>>11443389
>It is unclear when the shuttles will launch again, but ultimately NASA plans to replace the system with a multibillion-dollar craft called the Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV), which will travel to the moon as well as to the low-Earth-orbit domain of the shuttle. But that ship won't be ready until at least 2011

>>11443413

>>11443406
Based, thanks

>>11443413
That's Orion/SLS

>>11443444
Not really, it was the NASA competition from 2004 that Orion won.

>>11442711
Starship better have a HAL-9000 esque AI with a Microsoft Sam voice.

>>11441006
because the ground is where the rocks at.
>>11441008
The ground is where the rocks at. They're proposing this rover which takes some simple but hardened electronics on a wild ride. It's probably going stupidly bump into stuff back up and turn, randomly irradiate some rocks, and maybe take pictures. The whole point of this stupid rover is to show that we can make a venusian rover in the first place using what we have NOW! rather than needing new tech. Nuclear reactors for space have turned out to be a boondoggle. Hell, NASA was only able to make the kilopower reactor because it the easiest and cheapest to test. A nuclear ramjet's gonna require a bunch of new infrastructure we just don't have. Also on Venus, if you're above the clouds you don't need nuclear ramjets. There's so much solar available that you can build planes that can stay in place despite the wind.

>>11443463
>competition

So SpaceX using shipping container for building blocks. Literally, stacked shipping containers, painted over white.

>>11443786
Quick n ez way to build

>>11443786
based

>>11443786
I bet if you built 'em in connecting rows like Lincoln logs you could make a big tower. Those things are like $2500 a piece, aren't they?

>>11443807
>I bet if you built 'em in connecting rows like Lincoln logs you could make a big tower.
Would it be big enough to be a VAB?

>>11443814
I don't know the first thing about structural engineering but I don't see why you couldn't. Just build up your scaffolding and cranes and whatnot inside, maybe put a big garage door on the open end where the rocket rolls out.
Good 'nuff for rocket science I reckon.

>>11443125

First intelligent reply, thanks. The historical example I had in mind was Mattingly's grounding from Apollo 13 just on the possibility that he might have been exposed to rubella (but didn't get it). If current practices are anywhere nearly as stringent(?), I can only imagine that it would begin impacting crew decisions over the next year or two, if not in the immediate future.

>>11443807
you're height limited because they have a stacking limit
also it'll probably get wobbly quickly

>>11443835
If they're staggered at the corners it'd hold together pretty well for the first few stories, but you're right about the height limit since those containers can't be stacked infinitely, without internal support they'd buckle after enough stacks from the weight alone, wind aside.

>>11442974
>What's recored on it
Proof of alien life (us).
Proof another developing civilization managed to send out a message of, if not goodwill, at least a modest "Hello!".
Proof this civilization enjoyed the finer things in life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FboXO1FtbvE

Think about what impact it'd have for us to find something similar sent out thousands, millions or billions of years before.

>>11443887
>Chuck
nah, https://youtu.be/T9BC5PY_OaM

>>11443848
>>11443835
You could easily stack em like 15 high
More if you want to weld some supports on

Anyone else here use Rocket Propulsion Analysis? I'm trying to use the trial version, but the components windows for the propellants isn't loading properly. Both v.1.2 and v.2.3 have this issue.

which food truck is this

>>11443224

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fG_lnVhHw ULA factory tour.

>>11444050
great movie

>>11442837
>12 hour shifts
>brutal
You sound underage, inexperienced or you have never had a job doing difficult high demand shit before
I worked that schedule at 3M on a coater that applies adhesive to liner running at 600 feet per minute, its called 4crew regular-8 hour days are called 3 crew

The real fun part is when people do vacation and you realize you are the low man in the pool of total accumulated OT hours so you get stuck doing 84 hour weeks.
I made 27 dollars an hour regularly, with OT i made 40 and on Sunday its double pay so I made 80 an hour then. The week resets on monday
I could explain to you the OT pool but im shitfaced and had to reread this post like 4 times to make sure it was readable
4 crew was 1000x better than 3 crew because you knew when you were going to be told to stay over and get fucked and who you had to cover on your 12 hour shift.

With 3 crew they didnt have to let you know until 45 minutes before clock out time whether you were staying over 4 hours or coming in 4 hours early the next day

>>11443887
>something similar
If they are similar, that is. They can, and very likely will have a different enough physiology to possibly make it sound like some useless noise to them. Or just particulary bad taste in music.

It happened again

I’m glad you’re not all stupid, sfg

>>11444151
What happened? What do you mean?

>>11444151
what the fuck are you talking about

>>11444151
Yes we're on our way to page 10 as usual. What of it?

>>11444165
>>11444160
>>11444156
another thread got locked on nsf because of boomers being petulant over SLS vs Starship and other stuff

>>11444175
hahahah fucking boomers

>>11444175
Do we now report here every little drama that happens anywhere space related on the internet?

>>11444186
yeah

>>11444186
it’s one post out of 380, chill. The majority of boca chica updates and photos come from NSF members, so it’s useful to keep tabs on their petulance

>>11444175

Some heavy handed mod policy there concerning SLS discussion stemming from Chris Bergin's petulant Shuttle/SLS fanboy mentality that wants to suppress and manage dissent and can't stand program criticism. The reason why space policy discussion was moved behind a paywall when SLS became the program of record.

L2 Pay Piggies deserve to get banned from both sites.

>>11443337
We once made >4t power switches out of aluminium. Don't make fun of alu.

>>11443964
At that point you’re just building an actual structure

>>11443835
>stacking limit
Is that for empty or fully loaded?

new thread >>11444559

>>11442837
>Ow oof, I think I'd be fucking insensate at the end of a 12 hour shift
This is pretty much the standard in the manufacturing world. You need to move out of your parent's house and get a job.

>>11444050
>Yolodyne
>with their first orbital booster Yeet One

>>11442813
How long are the breaks? My 8h job has 12min+20min+12min paid breaks

>>11444114
Ok boomer