/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11438483
Things are spooky.
>Is reality really there
Yea probably
>has that been proven?
Empiricism can not and never has and has never tried to "prove" anything, that's not what it's about.

>>11438486
What would you say it's about?

>>11438483
>/sci/, what the hell is the deal with (((quantum mechanics)))? Is reality really there, has that been proven?

>>11438483
OP, physics is just a series of models. The models for QM have been fundamentally enabled a huge range of technologies, such as the semiconductor devices you are using to have this conversation over. Our models are never reality, however, they approximate reality within their domains of application. In this sense, yes, QM has been "proven" to be a good enough model of reality to construct some pretty amazing technology.
t.physicist

>>11438499

>>11438499

>>11438508
>>11438516

>>11438517

>>11438522

>>11438516
Please delete this post, this is disgusting.

>>11438516
OH GOD I WISH THAT WERE ME

>>11438499
>>11438517
>>11438522
>>11438526
and here /pol/tards: >>>/pol/

>>11438536
Trump is gonna win, he's gonna kick you out. There's nothing you could except cry tears, would give him a great breakfast meal!

>>11438542
you mean ((Trump))

>>11438548
>((Trump))

wow what a shit thread. (((trump))) and all you lgbt niggers need to go back to r*ddit

Whatever it is, you should clean up this board here, because this board here is like an open sewer you know. It's full of filth and scum. And sometimes I can hardly take it. Whatever-whoever becomes the new mod should just really clean it up. You know what I mean? Sometimes I go out and I smell it, I get headaches it's so bad, you know...They just never go away you know...It's like...I think that the President should just clean up this whole mess here. You should just flush it right down the fuckin' toilet.

>>11438665
>(((trump)))
>r*eddit
nah sir, go back to your r/SandersForPresident why don't ya?

>>11438548
I was being sarcastic you retardfag

>>11438522
>Probability
>Exponentially increases

>>11438770
>sanders
go back faggot, I dont need to like any dirty kike who wants to be head of the zog plantation. this board isnt political so keep this autism away

>>11438503
Thanks for the thoughtful answer anon.

autistic thread

>>11438483
There's three routes to quantum mechanics.

>Quantum Mechanics is fake, its just a math tool. We live in a classical world.
You get hidden variable theories.

>Quantum Mechanics is real, it is the only reality.
You get many-world theories.

>Quantum mechanics is real. Classical world is real. There are two realities.
You get Copenhagen Interpretation. Basically a copeout answer.

>>11438827
Is "Quantum Mechanics is a useful and currently most accurate approximation that will most likely be revised eventually" not valid?

>>11438951
You need to clarify what "most accurate approximate" means. Do you think its just a math tool? Or do you think its a fundamental reality? Or do you believe classical mechanics is the real reality?

>>11438495

>>11438992
I think it provides the least empirically inaccurate description of reality currently known. Which is why it's so useful.

>>11438483

You want the real answer or the pop sci answer designed to get you to buy expensive and unnecessary college classes?

Fake pop sci answer: Universe rolls dice at its foundation and blah blah blah


Real answer that they use at the high tech companies like Apple and rarely admit publicly?: Universe is infinitely deep and repeats in structure, and because light is the constant, and time is a measure of energy mass movement, then the smaller you get the faster time gets. Electrons appear to jump around because they are operating at a speed that is unimaginable to our timescale. We physically cannot track their motion from our timescale. Oh, and electrons are fucking stars and atoms are galaxies. Not even remotely fucking joking. This will be the biggest red pill of the next 100 years, similar to evolution before it, germ theory before that and heliocentricism before that.

>>11439040
>Oh, and electrons are fucking stars and atoms are galaxies.
explain pl0x
how can this analogy be literal when atoms only possess a couple electrons at most specifically orbiting the atom and galaxies encompass a chaotic matrix of stars planets moons meteors debris etc. wouldn't a better analogy be atoms are planets and electrons are moons?

>>11439040
Schizos like you should be banned imho.

>>11439043

Something to understand about science is that scientists always talk definitive but they are humans like us, prone to error.

Latest atomic models show that atoms have billions of orbiting electrons. What we think of as the classic orbits are just clusters, like our own galaxies have. The reason why the 1st orbital always has "two electrons" is because those are the extruding spiral arms. Also, atoms are in stable states, while our own galaxies have yet to optimize into stable states. Important to understand that galaxies never die, there will be no big crunch or heat death, and atoms are galaxies that have existed for a time that I cannot even write out. Probably reaching Graham's Number in Earth years. They are highly optimized into their strange shapes. They never fully defuse because in an infinite Universe they never run out of energymatter it spiral into their form.

>>11439056

I am sO sOrRy for giving away your secrets. Humanity needs people like me to counter the tribalists like you. True, people like you burn people like me at the stake, but then again, noone will remember your name, and I bet there are at least a dozen people here who already have mine on their tounge, because they already know.

>>11439058
>Latest atomic models show that atoms have billions of orbiting electrons
source pl0x

>>11439063

Our tech is getting good enough that you can see it for yourself.

>>11439058
>and atoms are galaxies that have existed for a time that I cannot even write out. Probably reaching Graham's Number in Earth years. They are highly optimized into their strange shapes. They never fully defuse because in an infinite Universe they never run out of energymatter it spiral into their form.
this is making a lot of sense yet i am skeptical how you came to these conclusions

>>11439063
Source: very much his ass.
I imagine you could pull Graham's numbers of electrons out of the depth of that thing though.

>>11439065
so i'm guessing the wave/particle duality was just our inability to pick up on the smaller electrons within the perceived couple of clusters orbiting the atoms?

>>11439060
>be proven wrong by every experiment ever
>noooo the experiments are wrong, it's a conspiracy, tribalists keep the truth down
I'm dead serious here: seek help.

>>11439066

I fucking love the pixel art, btw...

How do I know?

Because my lab computationally unified physics, and I'm just drunk enough to talk about it.

You wont hear about it in the press. Public science has become a political funding game that would take me at least an hour to explain....

But the guys at Apple, Intel, etc...? They know. Those are the ones calling people like me schizos because as of now, this knowedge is still a strategic advantage concerning hardware architecture.

>>11439072
do you fear repercussion/fatal consequence from spreading this information?

>>11439070

I'm dead serious here. Revolution is coming, whether you like it or not. We will drag you kicking and screaming into the future, like we always do, and in the end, you will thank us, and your maggotly little children will have pictures of us on their classroom walls with a caption saying "Perseverance" or something of the sort. You're welcome. We sacrafice because you're too much of a bitch ass coward to do it yourself.

>>11439075
i gotta admit your articulation combined with your defiant confidence is pretty god damn convincing

>>11439074

I don't give a fuck. life is temporary, and understanding of this knowedge also brings deeper understanding of life and death.

I do this because this is what the Universe / God, is guiding my hand to do. Like Darwin, Newton, etc...

>>11439079
be careful, god is a deceitful cunt

>>11439077

You have no idea friend. I am a walking revolution. You should hear what my actual voice sounds like. Cheers. I need to get back to work.

>>11439080

Understood. Cheers

>>11439077

Wow. This pixelart in particular is stunning. Did you make these?

>>11439085
fuck no i'm a literal retard
>You should hear what my actual voice sounds like
nigger you should hear the horrific animal i sound liek when i unload my existential anxiety through singing/screaming/yelling. maybe you've been doing the same for longer than me though idk

>>11439096
>>11439096

That sounds fun :-) I love u anon. But I need to get back to work.

i liek this one a lot. it's soothingly violent

>>11439099
god speed fwend

>>11439040
Hey anon, dunno if you're still around...but in regards to your theories...

Would that mean that protons and neutrons make up whatever is at the center of galaxies? Like black holes perhaps...

>>11439126
when I read what I type I feel like retard, sigh

>>11438503
I thought physics in particular was about the ultimate nature of reality. Is reality in principle unknowable then, even with a TOE?

>>11439075
You misunderstand. WE are the ones creating the future. You are holding everyone back with this nonsense.

>>11439172
Is it true the word materialism is being retired in favor of physicalism, because now information is considered a fundamental part of reality (i.e. it's no longer just matter/energy)?

>>11439172

oKaY

>>11439172

The fact that yiu appear to be intelligent and that on a forum with unlimited nonsense, THIS is what triggered you speaks volumes.

Of course we both know I am right. This is simply theory / politics now.

Your angle is that you should continue to grift taxpayers for funding for a theory that you havent been working on in decades. You are a scam. Virtually all of Academia is at this point.

Of course I am not arguing that you starve, but I am argueing that you bow to the leadership of men and women like myself so that we can finally, after 100 years, progress the material sciences.

I am not asking, fyi. We are moving forward with or without your permission, you baby boomer fuck.

>>11439301

And yeah, I know there are lots of spelling / grammar errors in my linked post.

No one cares.

We are sick of you grifting tax payers.

Yiu can keep getting your pay check but we are putting you back to work. Play time is over you baby boomer ass mother fucker, or you can retire and play oculus or beat it to online porn. We dont care. We just want you to stfu, and get out of the way while we build the future that you couldnt

>>11439301
>THIS is what triggered you
Wrong. You keep projecting you own shortcomings because you're already incapable of self-reflection.

>we both know I am right
You delude yourself into thinking this is true. It's not. We both know you're schizozypical and should seek professional help. I worry about you, Anon. Please speak to family and friends.

>Your angle is that you should continue to grift taxpayers for funding
Wrong. Projecting again.

>theory that you havent been working on in decades.
Wrong. You don't know me. Projecting again. This is textbook schizo behavior. Anon, please, take this seriously.

>You are a scam
I have produced real-world results that are used in the aerospace and automotive industry now. What do you have to show?

>Virtually all of Academia is at this point.
Not wrong, but for different reasons than you imply.

>you baby boomer fuck
Cussing shows you're at a loss for arguments. I'm not a boomer.

Seriously, again, seek help.

>>11439313
>you baby boomer ass mother fucker, or you can retire and play oculus or beat it to online porn
pfffrrrrt someone's hella mad lol

>>11439313
you have not unified physics and you are not nearly as important or influential as you think you are and you will never be a person who matters

>>11438999
So you think quantum mechanics is fake. And its only a useful math problem. There is lies your true position. No need to hide from it.

>>11438827
Quantum denialist.
Quantum realist.
Quantum compatibilist.

OP's pic doesn't even look too strange to me. If you took some pictures of a bunch of balls at different angles you would get something quite close to that.

>>11438827
Except all of these interpretations are wrong and Consistent Histories the the 'truth'

>>11439490
So is quantum mechanics a model of real world or is it just a math tool?

>>11439357
you seem liek a major league faggot

>>11439496
It's an accurate model of the real world, it is fundamentally non deterministic and it does not imply a multiverse.

>>11439524
>it is fundamentally non deterministic and it does not imply a multiverse
You injected your own bias into this.

>>11439527
No I didn't

>>11439480
It's just what popped up when searching quantum mechanics. I don't take it as evidence of anything.

>>11439524
A model, but does that mean we know what reality is, at root? Is there more than matter and energy?

>>11439065
Isn't that a compilation of a bunch of position measurements of an electron to show the distribution of its position matches with what the wave function predicts?

>>11439528
Schrodiger equation does not state anything about non determinism nor does it not imply a multiverse. If the equation is real, as you say it is, then it's a equation of all possible states of reality, thus both completely deterministic and multiversal.

Thank only thing reason to cut it down to size is if you believe QM is wrong or if you believe classical reality also exist. In which case you're either a denialist or a compatabilitist.

>>11439413
I think that due to still unresolved problems existing it will be modified anywhere from some relatively minor changes to downright rewriting most of it. I do not think having a religion-like "true position" is important.

>>11439894
Maybe it's not important to physics, but it is important to modernity, which has been entirely derived from the death of God, which occurred due to taking physicalism as true. It stops science from being the only lense through which to look at reality.

>>11439040
Do schizos honestly think that companies (like Apple of all things) control the "secrets to quantum mechanics"? At least if you said government-funded universities and labs your schizophrenia would be believable.

>>11439551
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-consistent-histories/

>>11440026

Do you, an actual cuck faggot loser, think that trillion dollar companies that are on the cusp of having more power than secular government, just give away their secrets?

I am not asking you. I am telling you, out of love because your are my own human blood, this Universe is infinite, not only in scope but also in depth, and that the speed of light is the conversion factor between different scales, and because time is simply a construct derived from that the movement of energymatter, that time fluctiates at a perfect ratio with scale, bigger scales = slower time. Smaller scales = faster time. I cannot stress how superior my model is to yours. We have computationally unified this shit and will, frankly, probably be thr model that drives humanity for the next few thousand years. This is not about money or clout. This is about our human blood. I understand you are too simple to understand that revolutions happen all the time. I really do not care if you agree or disagree. This is happening with or without your approval.

>>11441316
>Universe is infinite, not only in scope but also in depth, and that the speed of light is the conversion factor between different scales, and because time is simply a construct derived from that the movement of energymatter, that time fluctiates at a perfect ratio with scale, bigger scales = slower time. Smaller scales = faster time.
Proof?
Actual proof with math and experimental/computational results that are consistent with what we see in the real world?

>>11438483
what the fuck is going on in this thread?
context is that im a 25 year old braindead 5th year community college student who struggles with pre-algebra and high school chemistry but i have a huge ambition to learn more and eventually pursue a decent engineering degree.
inb4 you can't do it
I know i can, it was laziness and not stupidity all that time. I just have a hard time focusing but I understand concepts really well when I apply myself

enough about me though what I mean is what the fuck is this?

do people really believe that quantum physics is a memescience that doesn't exist? is there any evidence? what's the general consensus on this from actual scientists and not armchair conspiracy theorists? what even is quantum physics?

i live near a really sketchy IBM supercomputer that's located in like the middle of fucking nowhere and they apparently do quantum computing on there.

>>11441364
me again

some of the jobs posted recently according to google are 'Quantum research advocate', 'quantum software engineer', 'research staff member - A.I.'

something seems so spooky about that place, it's heavily guarded and wayyyy off a backroad in an area nobody really goes to

still i wish i could apply for one of these jobs...most of them want a PhD though

>>11441343

Proof is everywhere. Actually a brilliant analogy I just realized is those rotating gears where the last gear is stuck in concrete... https://youtu.be/kb4J_uGdo9I

Time is relative, and scale is everything...

>>11441364
Just your typical /sci/ schizo that thinks he unified physics.

>do people really believe that quantum physics is a memescience that doesn't exist?
There's one in this thread.

>is there any evidence?
That quantum mechanics is memescience?
No.


>what's the general consensus on this from actual scientists and not armchair conspiracy theorists?
Quantum mechanics is the most accurate description of our reality, it gives us extremely precise measurable results. I guess the lack of easy at-home experiments and non-accessible mathematics can make quantum mechanics feel very mystical since pop-sci is forced to explain it via shitty analogies.

>what even is quantum physics?
A particle is described by a wave such that squaring the wave gives a probability distribution for position and evolves in time such that the average value of the distribution follows classical mechanics.
Also lots of linear algebra.

>>11441399

dubs checked, and thank you for the super interesting and informative response.
trying to wrap my head around your explanation of it... a particle times itself shows its position and how it evolves in time? :/ hmm.. i wish i could understand this better

3blue1brown made me really wanna understand linear algebra but i still gotta brush up on my pre-algebra first... i have trouble with word problems an that

>>11441399
also, me again, how do you feel about things on the edge of science like quantum immortality and parallel universes?

i remember when i was a dumb, spazzy weed smoking teen i was thumbing through the library and found some books by some guy Clifford Pickover. turns out he lived in my town for a short while, which is a very very very small town. anyway, i was just reading his wikipedia page for the 1000th time in my life and found that after years of studying complex maths, biophysics, etc.. he used to write about those things. did he simply just lose his mind?
he made pickover stalks and vampire numbers. really interesting guy.

since the past hour or so i've been down a wikipedia rabbit hole reading about chaos theory an that.

what cool stuff have you found/been reading about recently anon?

>>11441428
not the guy you were replying to, but linear algebra is basically nothing to do with pre-algebra. I mean that in the sense that pre-algebra is middle school and linear algebra is college for a reason. Not trying to put you down here---I just mean that you probably don't need to brush up on pre-algebra, you can just jump straight into linear algebra if you at least know what absolute value means and how to square something.

So, another Deepak Chopra quantum mechanics thread, Am I the only one who lurks these qm threads to check how much it rates in the Deepak Chopra level? I give this a 9

>>11441441
i see... good to know, honestly thank you

+ interesting digits you got there hmm

>>11438483
it's just funky math, no need to worry about it

>>11441428
I'll try to explain it another way. Look at the pic OP posted. It's a model of the hydrogen atom, specifically modelling the motion of the electron around the nucleus.
You see that scary formula in the top right? That's the wave function of the electron and it completely describes its state. By the phi, we see n, l and m subscripts, they are integers. n tells us the energy state it's in, l is the magnitude angular momentum of the electron, m is the angular momentum measured along an axis. n,l,m aren't actually these values, they parameterize them. For example, angular momentum is hbar*sqrt(l*(l+1)). m ranges from -l to l in integer steps. nlm tell us all the possible states the electron can be in.
The things in parenthesis are position parameters in spherical coordinates. Quantum mechanics is all about finding these wave functions (scattering too). It's usually impossible to find exact answers so we're forced to approximate.
Now to get actual measurable quantities from this wave function, we square it. Now we have a probability distribution of position, it tells us where the particle is most likely to be found, that's what all those pictures are. The numbers in parenthesis are (n, l, m). The bottem left picture is the distribution of electron positions when the electron is in the 4th energy state, 2nd angular momentum state, 2nd component angular momentum state. You can extract other quantities from wave functions like momentum but that's a bit more complicated.
Also notice I haven't mentioned time yet, the wave functions in OP's pic are stationary states which don't depend on time. Time evolution is kinda complicated, not really. Refer to Ehrenfest's theorem if you want a better understanding of the wave function(the wiki article is pretty technical but the introduction stuff is easy enough to follow). Hope this is a bit better.

>>11441433
>>11441493
I'm not super into the philosophical stuff in science nor crazy edge science. I prefer the boring technical shit, like stuff you can actually test in a lab.
I don't know much about Pickover, I've head of him, but he might just be getting old (maybe he is actually losing his mind idk).
I've been trying to learn Topology, it's an area in math I've always wanted to learn more about but it's been tricky to get some quiet time to read.

>>11441399
>>>11441364 #
>Just your typical /sci/ schizo that thinks he unified physics.

There was a great interview with Jim Keller recently, legendary CPU engineer. He talks like the "schizos" in this thread do. He says that calculating the quantum universe takes infinite processing, not that its random. BIG difference. You are just a pop sci meme lord.

>>11441364
>do people really believe that quantum physics is a memescience that doesn't exist
Most physicists are taught that quantum mechanics is not real. That its just a math tool to find ways to explain our "real" classical mechanical world.

>>11441941

Yep. The laws of physics just seem different at that scale, because all the laws of nature scale down, including time, therefore everything is accerated at that scale, but the speed of light is never broken, AND THE INVERSE! This is why galaxies appear to spin so slow, but atoms spin so fast, even though they are repeated forms in an infinite Universe.

Everyone like to talk about, "oh wow, the Universe is infinitely big" but dont have the balls to take that to the next logical conclusion... that means that GALAXIES ARE ATOMS IN ANOTHER SCALE and atoms are galaxies in another scale as well.

>>11441399

squared...

why not cubed? squared would mean that we are flat landers, no?

no not a maths nerd

>>11441941
Wrong. You've never even talked to a physicist.

>>11442151
Because the symmetry of our universe makes it necessary to square.

>>11443040
how odd, thanks for reply!

>>11438774
>I don't need any dirty kike
Stop lying, you're a fucking kike and you know it,

>>11438483
This is a pretty good book
https://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Quantum-Mechanics-Exploration-Undergraduate/dp/3319658662