/sci/ - Science & Math

>pours water on computer
>see! computers are objectively not real! it requires a property that I shall call "non-wetness" which cannot be guaranteed! therefore, how can we trust it?
see also: Mediations on First Philosophy

>>11427540
>Do psychedelics prove that there is no objective reality?
no

>>11427540
In a wired kind of way yes. But most people want to deduct stuff. So you need to read a bit Philosophy, if you wanna deduct it your self.

>>11427540
Pretty sure that language itself proves that there is no divine objective observer.

>>11427540
Your post proves that people like you shouldn't be allowed to take physedelics, because their weak mind literally can't comprehend >>11427592
afterwards.

>>11427639
There is a level above your level, where the brain ascends and realises that unironically there is no objective reality again

>>11427540
No.

>>11427540
No. They prove that there is an objective reality above and beyond the usual physical realm. Meditation will also reveal these layers to reality, and the dangers that lurk within.

>>11427540
>a completely different reality
Nope.

>>11427671
Kinda proving my point there bruv

Don’t take lsd. It destroys your brain.

>>11427540
You can already arrive to this conclusion via dreams, LSD is not required. re:is there an objective reality, depends on what you consider reality to be

>>11427815
literally does the opposite but i respect your opinion

>>11427540
>Do psychedelics prove that there is no objective reality?
No. It reveals YOUR prior assumptions of reality (some of which you didn't even realize you had been making all this time) and sense of self were bullshit.
>How can you trust the human brain when a drug can cause it to experience an extremely different reality?
You shouldn't (unconditionally) trust your own notions of what you're "experiencing." That's why the scientific method is a thing and knowledge is built on what can be corroborated across the reports of multiple different observing parties as well as against inanimate diagnostic tools and abstract mathematical models. When after checking across all those different channels there's some apparent result with properties these channels match each other on then you have some decent reason to tentatively believe that result is a facet of objective reality and not just a misinterpreted artifact of your own mental processes.

>>11427540

A brain on psychedelics is literally a malfunctioning brain. That's why you see all that shit and hear voices and see aliens. What you see on psychedelics is not reality, it's more or less just brain noise.

>>11428351
Never taken psychedelics

>>11428366

Yes, I have. And I regret it. Not because it didn't work or because I had a bad trip. I've had only good or neutral trips. I've taken relatively large doses of LSD. But, I believe it might be harmful to our brain and psychology in ways not fully explored yet. There is no intelligible insight to be gained from taking psychedelics.

>>11428351
>malfunctioning
It's more similar to a factory reset. Psychedelics restore your brain to the state it was in before it made logical conclusions about the world.

>>11428415
>intelligible insight
This is the main point. The experience might seem profound and really important subjectively, but so does heroine. Doing these things is basically inducing chemical imbalance in your brain and mostly we have no idea what happens to how you're supposed to work naturally afterwards.

>>11428415
>There is no intelligible insight to be gained from taking psychedelics.
There is. It's called ego death. Helps with existential dread to realize there isn't any inherent continuity of identity between different points in time and that thoughts, feelings, and behaviors aren't really what "I" do, with that idea of "self" creating everything just being a fiction of convenience.

I will never take psychedelics because everyone I know who's taken them either become very spiritual (mental illness) or depressed. In general they became less functional, less smart.
Perhaps I will only take them if I'm ever at the brink of suicide (though I doubt it's ever going to come to that!).

>>11428437
>experience might seem profound and really important subjectively, but so does heroine

no

>>11427540
No, it just proves your brain is not connected to reality

>>11428351
As someone who takes a fuckton of psychedelics, this is probably the scientific answer.

However I've seen things that do not correspond to any memories or experiences or anything I've imagined outside of psychedelics, which is not rational and beyond my understanding.

>>11428423
This is a very good anecdote.

>>11428625
Almost every great scientific breakthrough/achievement happened when the scientist was on psychedelics.

Read Kant faggot.

>>11427540
How can you "prove" something if objective facts don't exist? That doesn't even make sense anon. The concept of "proof" presupposes a notion of truth and objectivity.

>>11429520
T. Someone with no background in science

Psychedelics don't affect objective reality. If you wanted to describe an objective reality at any given time, you'd need to get information from all points in the universe, each facing all possible directions. Maybe even that would not be a true objective reality. Something that is unreachable. I don't know how something so little as human consciousness can interfere with that. You're just an animal, and high. Physics is the tool of understanding the world that the God created, so it strives to be as perfect and as precise as God's original creation.

>>11428415
About reality, probably not other than the fact your brain does not percieve objective reality.

They are fantastic for therapy and psychological insights into how your mind works, as well as coping with trauma. LSD massivley improved my sense of empathy and self awareness.

>>11429520
Lmao no

>>11429682
Lmao yes

>>11429694
name 5

>>11429706
>Poincaré conjecture
>Fermat's Last Theorem
>Ptolemy's Theorem
>Calculus
>Feigenbaum constants

No you tapped into true objective reality. The spiritual reality. I have not taken psychedelics besiides weed once but I have had lucid dreams. Wake induced lucid dreams that were almost like not even dreaming at all just entering another world. I can tell you that your own mind is actually composed of other spirits that you interface with they are the subconscious. There is an evil spirit in my mind but I have been weakening it.

>>11428625
Spiritual is not mental illness. Spirituality is Truth science is only a study of information. You are a fool who is being tricked by the jester.

>>11427540
It's been proven that there's more than 3 dimensions why wouldn't it be possible to experience the other ones

>>11429706
>Helical structure for DNA ("Crick had told [Kemp] that some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD.")
>Modern computers (What the Dormouse Said: How the 60s Counterculture Shaped the Personal Computer Industry covers a lot of this)
>PCR ("Would I have invented PCR if I hadn’t taken LSD? I seriously doubt it.")
>Mapping of pain and pleasure paths in the brain (John C. Lilly)
>Path integral formulation of quantum mechanics (Feynman)

>>11427794
Don't waste your time. He's too much of a brainlet to realize he's a brainlet. He'll be trapped in throwaway sophisms time and time again, regardless of what you say.

I have the same experience. You've seen past the curtain. The universe is a matrix, a giant binary branching tree of the infinite possibilities determined by quantum particles being observed and collapsing from their superposition state.

Every decision we make is based on the random collapse of the particles that make up our brain, and so our consciousness is innately intertwined with the fabric of the universe itself. Each one of us, if we make decisions to radically different to the status quo, can irreparably separate our consciousness from the universe we were born in -- inhabiting that one while a carbon copy of us before making said decisions stays behind to inhabit the original one.

Since our consciousness exists as the quantum entanglement of our brain matter as opposed to the matter itself, we are essentially a complex energy pattern inhabiting a physical vessel, rather than the vessel itself. As such, we are able to pick up subconsciously on the strings between our grey matter and the rest of the particles in the universe. This is what causes telepathy, or what normal people refer to as "being on the same wavelength," which is ironic as it is unintentionally an accurate description of what is going on. It also allows us to control our fate by our expectations, desires and beliefs influencing the collapsed state of photons, allowing us to fabricate events and impose them on the universe around us.

Thing is, our path is determined by variables set in stone before our birth. So none of this matters. So the problem is that someone with enough intelligence and enough autism to pick up on the patterns that show you these truths is bound to realize they have control of the universe but no control over themselves, which is more depressing than vice versa.

I'm sorry.

>>11427540
>Do psychedelics prove that there is no objective reality?
>>11427609
>>11427617
>>11427671
Our minda aren't making reality. They are observing it. These questions about trees falling in the woods and drugs messing with brains all point to a belief that phenomenon only become real when they are observed. It is a belief that elevated human consciousness to a god-like state. Schrodinger didn't like that and made fun of science with his cat thought experiment. The problem is that physicist are so full of themselves that they took the joke as fact.

Reality is real. It was before you. It will be after you. It doesn't care if you're tripping balls. It remains unchanged by your perception. Your observation doesn't change reality.

>>11427540
>our experience is a pliable interpretation of reality
>therefore objective reality doesn't exist
retard

>>11429598
t. shit for brains fucking retard who denies history.

>>11427592
This. There is a foundation below the composite perception that you see. Even when you were on LSD there was color, shape, vision, sense, and so on. In my experience with psychedelics, they only alter your perception of the world, not the world itself.

>>11427540
>different reality?
its not a different reality though its merely being perceived differently after the drug creates connections which do not normally exist in your brain.

>>11428625
>less smart
you dont really have much to lose anyway

>>11427540
Whether or not the human brain is capable of perceiving "objective reality" is a COMPLETELY different question than "does objective reality exist". Stop being a retard.