/sci/ - Science & Math

The moon wouldn't be able to hold on to any atmosphere given to it. The only way to "terraform" it would be to make most of the caves in the moon short sleeve shirt habitable.

>>11388750
It would be able to for a milliena, just replenish it every 100 years or so

terraform earth before anything

>>11388737
lol

>>11388788
why don't we just live in venus? it has the proper gravity and we may just be able to terraform it in the future.
we could live in swarms instead of cloud cities, hindenburg sized swarms and we can recycle the acid clouds to get water and recycle our own water too.

>>11388803
Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune are more hospitable for that than Venus. It also seems like Earth atmosphere pressure at sea level is easy mode for all floating cities, because gaseous planets' gravity, no matter how high, will always be about 1g around that pressure up in the atmosphere.

>>11388803
Venus is unironically the best candidate for colonization and only brainlet pop-sci dummies will say otherwise.

>>11388814
You should have read >>11388812 before replying. Venus colony is the second position in the normie popsci colony selection. The first is Mars and the 3rd is the moon. Floating cities has Venus as top pick with Jupiter as second. Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune are almost not even mentioned, despite being the best floating city real estate in the solar system.

>>11388756
>terraform earth

but we are anon, soon conditions will be just right

>>11388737
We should terraform earth and stop reproducing.

>>11388828
We should just reproduce less.

>>11388812
I agree, which is why we should practice with venus first before we go the distance.
venus atmosphere is 96.5% CO2 and at 50km above the surface, the conditions are earthlike, the zone between 50km to 53km is a earth like "heaven".
with enough practice and using venus as a mold, we will master and perfect the technology needed to directly colonize those gas giants.
venus is perfect for testing and inhabit its clouds.
>>11388814
indeed, its ironically perfect for people to live in there, since cloud cities would be too unstable for current technology and only possible in gas giants, future colonists will live in hindenburg sized zeppelins coated with teflon.
solar energy there x4 times more efficient than earth and an actual reliable source of energy should we ever need it, maybe even be capable of living in the sun "forever" without fear of losing energy.
with hydroponics and maybe in-built gardens and aquariums, you could live there indefinetely, harvesting the acid clouds for water and the CO2 to get compounds needed to build shit.
maxwell montes is 11km above the surface so you could actually get a seismometer down there.

>>11388828
>>11388846
or what about just eugenics? let the humans 2.0 get rid of their outdated and defective precursors.

>>11388750
This, moon colonies would be much more optimal for future space travel development. Perhaps even an underground moon city win atmospheric pressure would work.

>>11388737
>we
what steps have you taken to getting started so far?

>>11388908
But eugenics are bad anon!

:(

good luck growing plants that can handle 2 week light cycles.

>>11388846
u first

>>11388755
No. Asteroid and meteors containing gasses and liquids have been striking the moon regularly for eons, I sure dont see any atmosphere up there, do you?

>>11388814
Brainlet pop-sci dummies like you are the ones always spouting Venus colonization nonsense. Why would you put valuable mass into a gravity well with nothing of value at the bottom?

Venus cloud colonies would be a wasteful and costly way to store warm bodies. Anything beyond research stations is a fucking joke.

>>11389011
the real CHAD colonization is independent asteroid belt colonies

>>11388935
way ahead of you on that one buddy

:,^)

>>11389011
>Venus cloud colonies would be a wasteful and costly way to store warm bodies.
not if you use maxwell montes as a factor alongside using the CO2 to create polymers and other stuff, the acid clouds can be harvested to create a lot of materials and get water.
>Anything beyond research stations is a fucking joke.
is it? what if we used the planet as a test ground? where not only there will be research stations but also test prototypes that will eventually become vital in the colonization of the gas giants and their moons.
or also see how long can we mantain a colony in venus, if we used a swarm of teflon coated zeppelins of hindenburg size then we may have just enough to sustain the people on board indifinetely.
especially if some of those zeppelins are farms, factories and water purifiers.

Bump

>>11388737
>terraform
Enormous waste of money and resources if at all possible.

>>11388814
Venus is a good candidate for terraforming. It could realistically be cooled down with solar shades and enzymatic flora in less than two centuries.

Why terraform a planet when you could build your own orbital cities for lower cost and environments more suitable than earth itself? Imagine, each oneill cylinder a sovereign city state, driving space industrialism and cementing the human race in space.

>>11389901
the only problem with that is the excess of dry ice should the planet cool down...remember its atmosphere is 96.5% CO2.

>>11389034
>Maxwell Montes
>Due to its elevation it is the coolest (about 380 °C or 716 °F) and least pressurised (about 45 bar or 44 atm) location on the surface of Venus.
Gee golly, that sounds so useful.

>is it? what if we used the planet as a test ground? where not only there will be research stations but also test prototypes that will eventually become vital in the colonization of the gas giants and their moons.
Gas giants have the same problem as colonizing Venus itself- why? Why would you do that, other than research stations? Their moons, sure, but those are solid bodies and we already know how to interact with those in a practical way.

>using the CO2 to create polymers and other stuff, the acid clouds can be harvested to create a lot of materials and get water
Yes, to sustain your money-sink hell cities in a hostile sky. For what purpose but to make a place to keep people? There are easier ways to do that.

>>11389901
Source/numbers on that plan?

>>11389947
A giant CO2 snowball planet could be sort of useful, really. We could dig down under the ice to get to the crust, use that metal to make huge mass drivers, and yeet big CO2 pellets out to fuel generation facilities.

>>11390396
>Yes, to sustain your money-sink hell cities in a hostile sky.
>For what purpose but to make a place to keep people? There are easier ways to do that.
to terraform venus of course, nothing is truly easy.
if we put a temporal colony and research stations there, those people may figure out a way to terraform venus and pretty much have a new planet where we can live.
it'll be a long process but I am very sure if we used the extra CO2 to build large swarm of shades/mirrors to protect the planet, we may have a new home, maybe even create earth 2.0

>>11388846
Whites and Asians already are. Tell it to the blacks.

>>11388846
I'm sure you're already on it

A floating Venus colony would be the best, because you could make people you didn't like walk the plank into the atmosphere.
They would probably be dead before they even hit the ground.

Now I kind of want to write a novel about cloud-pirates in Venus' atmosphere, pillaging gas refineries for fuel and searching for the long-lost station of legend.

>>11390463
one more painful way to die and extend the pain is a slow descend torwards a place where the pressure hurts but not enough to kill you and be exposed to acid clouds and intense heat, it'll be a hellish torture where every single pain receptor will be burning, literal venusian scaphism.
in fact, venus is the perfect world for executions and torture.

>>11388788
its amazing how well a venusian colonist health fared compared to the rest...

>>11391722
But some survived, and their mutated vengance will be Toxic...

>>11391728
that sounds like something out of ridley scott universe...those mutants would realistically behave like xenomorphs.

Can we build a glass bubble around the moon and fill it with an atmosphere?

Terraforming the Moon is a retarded idea but we should colonize it, heavily industrialize it, and turn it into our premier spaceport and spacecraft construction facility. I'd imagine launching shit would probably much easier from Lunar gravity instead of Earth gravity. Of course, you'd still have to launch people/cargo/whatever from Earth to the Moon but that's easier than sending shit from here to Mars, I'd bet.

>>11388923
Humanity is a colective you dipshit.
Free your self from the jewish pill.

>>11391708
Fits the goddes, cruel and unforgiving

>>11394626
have you seen star wars? specifically the part where anakin burst into flames and is burned alive? you saw the state he was left.
the very same will happen to anyone who is put through that torture, chemical burns destroying your skin, the sudden pressure making your insides hurt and bruise, the heat slowly cooking you alive, etc...by the time a person is put up, if he or she survived, then they'll be connected to life support for life, its a permanent crippling experience, they'll be ugly and fragile, every soft tissue chemically charred and muscles damaged.
a pasty white, deformed, ugly, useless, fragile, cripple and tortured bag of meat and bones that cannot survive outside of life support, because they'll rot to death if they do, constantly having to be cleaned and desinfected or else they will literally start to feel the effect of necrosis and severe infections that will slowly and painfully kill them.
you have to be a sadistic asshole to put a person through that.

>>11394608
kinda like this? but of course without the stupid concept of a fucking crescent.

>>11396272
because its pretty foolish to make a crescent moon station without that falling apart.

If terraformed it will lose most of its atmosphere in around 20k years.

>>11394626
and sexy af lmao

Colonizing the moon would end up destroying its natural beauty.

>>11396535
>natural beauty

its not that hot

>>11396540
it hit the wall a couple of billion years ago

>>11396543
>slim down fast with this one neat trick!

You can't terraform a luminary

>>11388737
We should destroy the world before it kills us!

>>11388932
>good luck growing plants that can handle 2 week light cycles.

I already solved this problem.

Solar thermal power stations made of low cost lunar aluminum, heating a coolant and dumping that heat into a thermal mass.

Using the thermal mass with a stirling cycle engine, coupled to the cold mass of space through radiator panels.

use that to generate electricity to power LED's that only emit the part of the spectrum that plants use to photosynthesize.

done.

>>11398147
Lunar aluminum?

>>11398149
ya, there's aluminum in the lunar regolith.

it's an oxide, so you'd have to reduce it, but you'd get oxygen also, so.... win win.

>>11398153
in case we completely industrialize the moon...how viable would it be for the moons of mars to be transfomed into space hubs?

>>11390396
>Gee golly, that sounds so useful.
indeed, since it would help us master the dome technology.
its the perfect place to live in the surface, a prototype for us humans to start having cities in the ocean since the conditions would be in a way replicated.

BUMP

>>11394305
yes but take into account the size of the bubble, the pressure inside and the materials that will be used, also the gravity.
think about it, the "bubble" is ready and you plant grass inside...and that shit grow taller than the tallest tree in the world and is harder than fucking bamboo.

>>11388737
We should put rockets on the earth man, big ones! Then we can fly the planet to where we need to go! The earth IS our spaceship, man.

>>11388737
we should rather live on cloud cities in venus

>>11388750
Not to mention that the low gravity would ruin your bone and muscle tissue in the long run
Life developed in the exact same planet for thousands of millions of years, we're not capable of going to the moon without fucking our health

>>11396535
Literally a dead grey dustball with some rocks and holes

>>11398147
>the cold mass of space

>>11388737
Terraforming is gay. We should just rape it for resources and build colonies that are instantaneously capable of sustaining life in the millions.

>>11400574
That would be fucking awesome

>>11401029
>we're not capable of going to the moon without fucking our health
ironically we are capable of going to venus...

>>11388981
We would need to increase the spin in the moons magma core. Nukes. Tons of them.

>>11401922
Actually. Just tap into the core. Wtf.

>>11396510
Well living there for a few millennia doesn't sound so bad.

>>11388788
Cybernetics

>>11401029
On the ISS they have to work out to prevent atrophy. I can imagine the same can be done on the moon.
And for the first generation of people on the moon, it's probably a one way trip. So while bones and muscles will be atrophied too much to return back to earth, it will probably work out just fine in case of a permanent stay.

>>11388750
>Comfy moon tunnels
I want to be a moonman.

>>11390444
Blacks are reproducing less as well. Birth rates are plummeting all over the planet.

Colonizing the asteroid belt would be easiest. Just spin an asteroid and live on the inside. Couldn't be simpler

>>11402313
And that's a good thing™. (but unironically)

>>11402375
in case it goes too low, we should start applying eugenics.

>>11388737
Moon doesn't have gravity to sustain atmosphere, but moon bases are great idea.

>>11402332
>spin an asteroid enough to create artificial gravity
>the asteroid is not held by its own gravity anymore
>pieces of asteroid everywhere
Stop watching/reading the expanse anon

>>11402452
I don't think they're held by their own gravity anyway

Ganymede is the sexiest moon considering it omits radiation with it's magnetic field, is the largest moon in the Solar system even surpassing Mercury, has a tonne of water and geothermal activity.

>>11402510
ganymede always struck me as an unlucky world.
because it had the potential to be earthlike.

>>11402557
Maybe if it had enough rocky material. But quite honestly the subsurface ocean could be quite friendly to life considering the activity is comparatively intense, so there could be enough heat for metabolic processes. Also I believe some single cell life could spew out to on the surface and further evolve near the cracks, and slowly taking over the surface in a fungi like manner.

>>11388756
Don't shit where you eat.

>>11403114
>Maybe if it had enough rocky material.
its really disturbing because it may at point had the chance...I mean, if you fuse io, callisto and europe into ganymede then you'll get a moon bigger than mars but smaller than venus with the chance to be more earth-like than mars.
a planet with a thick enough atmosphere, a strong magnetosphere, water, land and the heat will come from jupiter having a similar relationship like io.
that planet will be cold but volcanically active and also be protected from radiation.
>But quite honestly the subsurface ocean could be quite friendly to life considering the activity is comparatively intense, so there could be enough heat for metabolic processes.
indeed but that moon will still have slower rate of evolution compared to us, it'll be their cambric by the time that casini fly by.
>Also I believe some single cell life could spew out to on the surface and further evolve near the cracks, and slowly taking over the surface in a fungi like manner.
since the gravity will be lower then that fungi will actually be enormous, like mega-fauna tier big, it'll make the tallest tree in the world look like a joke in comparison.
also the moon will have an 83% nitrogen, 10% oxigen, 2.5% CO2, 0.9% argon and 1% hydrogen sulfide in its atmosphere.
is livable but life will be indeed different, also this fungi may have a symbiotic relationship with something.

>"we" should terraform saturn
so what about all the inhabitable, but currently uninhabited terra firma on this planet? shouldn't "we" work on attainable goals instead of wasting fortunes on imaginary sci-fi fantasies?

If you had enough material and energy, could you make a continuous O'Neill cylinder that completely encircles the sun? In effect, an O'Neill torus? Mayne segmented into thousands of slices so the whole thing could rotate to provide simulated gravity inside? Or would the mass of the torus end up creating it's own gravity that would pull in the wrong direction?

>>11403555
The problem with Earth is it is filled with Earthlings.

>>11403555
indeed, we should start with seeing a way to colonize the ocean floor and improve sucessfull colonizations like villa las estrellas in antarctica into full fledged cities.
>>11403580
a swarm of o'neill cylinders may be better.

>>11403586
in space, eugenics is the answer.
specifically space colonization and a solution to a problem.
genocide while effective doesn't last.

>>11403586
pic unrelated

>>11403586

>>11403599

>>11403593
>indeed, we should start with seeing a way to colonize the ocean floor and improve sucessfull colonizations like villa las estrellas in antarctica into full fledged cities.

that'll never happens because soibois spend their adult lives on the internet jacking off to imaginary bullshit like o'neill cylinders instead of achieving attainable goals in the real world

>>11403643
It won't happen as long as we're wasting money increasing the number of people who need social spending on them.

>>11403643
unless /sci/ and /biz/ decide to band together in order to build something big.
or at least 100 people with the same ideas to spend time in getting money through getting things that passively produce money like renting houses or small apartments for a reasonable price or basically using debt to invest.
then for years reunite enough passive income to feed this project and start a colonization program elsewere, be it some parts of greenland or begin a expansion in villa las estrellas to ascend the small village to a full fledged city.

>>11388737
Man should make his home in space.
Earth should become a sacred nature reserve, allowing it to heal from all the bullshit

>>11403739
one that is virtually everlasting.
earth needs to be protected from the eventual giant red fase and then remain safe in the habitable zone of the white dwarf.

>>11402241
we already worry a lot about evolving diseases that could potentially kill us and constantly fighting them.
we don't truly need a damn computer to actually kill us.

>>11402250
there is no evidence that a fetus can develop properly in significantly reduced or micro gravity environments. humans might not even be able to colonize space without rotating habitats

>>11403998
There's also no evidence that they can't develop properly in sub-g environments. There's no long-term data for anything other than 0g and 1g.

>>11404015
that's true, but there is no reason to think that the horrible birth defects of 0g disappear at .16g. more than likely they are almost as bad

What is everyone's opinion on Titan? How good of a candidate would it be for colonization, distance issues aside?

>>11404391
it'll be a good fuel station but sadly nothing more than that.
gravity is too low and unfit to form a colony.
you can fly in titan on a special suit but then titan will be fit only for recreational purposes and at most a research station.

>>11404665
>recreational purposes
It may be a little too cold for that.

>>11389901
>less than two centuries
I call bullshit on that. From what I've read, it'd take much, much longer than that to cool down the surface.

>>11406046
unless we actually annihilate the entire atmosphere, leaving the planet with no atmosphere and exposed to space.
since a day in venus is longer than its year(meaning it rotates so slow that you can actually run away from the sun with your own legs, the planet orbiting the sun is faster than its day), that means the planet will take no time in cooling down...now the hard part will be the rebuilding of an atmosphere.

>>11388803
>>11388814
>>11388820
>>11388852
>>11390463
>>11401009
>>11389901
Venus just doesn't have enough hydrogen. We can't practically colonize venus because hydrogen is just way too difficult to obtain from the atmosphere.
>>11389034
>>use maxwell montes
for fucking what? it's still hot as hell. There is also a non-zero probability that it's still geologically active and might produce rather large lava flows. We have some pretty good evidence that Venus is geologically active
>>the acid clouds can be harvested
not practically. The sulfuric acid has a concentration of tens of ppm in Venus atmosphere. It's going to be very difficult to obtain significant amounts of hydrogen harvesting something that's almost an order of magnitude less concentrated than CO2 is in Earth's atmosphere.
>>gas giant
>>colonization
no. The only way to float in an atmosphere of hydrogen and helium is with hotter hydrogen and helium, so you need nuclear powered hot air balloons
>>11391708
>>acid clouds
really are not that concentrated. They're pretty fucking thin compared to clouds on earth.

>>11402313
LOL, no. Africans have lower birth rates when girls are allowed to attend school, children are given sex education, and easy access to birth control is provided. Under those conditions birth rates drop. But only until the NGO making all of those things happen leaves. Once the NGO is gone, the birth rates go back up. Turns out it's not the education or the access to birth control that lowers birth rates, it's the nannying by the NGO. So unless you want to assign a first world nanny force to every third world village, humanity is screwed.

>>11402464
They're just piles of rubble, it's possible weak gravity might come into play but it's really easy to spin them apart.

>>11406120
I mean. Couldn't you let in just enough sunlight to vaporize only a small amount of the ice on the equator?

>>11406192
>Couldn't you let in just enough sunlight to vaporize only a small amount of the ice on the equator?
excuse me but how in the hell are we gonna get ICE from venus? the same planet which the main temperature 464° C around the globe, its coldest place being the peak of maxwell montes which is so hot it can melt LEAD.
the only way that planet can be terraformed is through giant glasses that will filter the sunlight.

>>11406147
>Venus just doesn't have enough hydrogen.
there is a really good amount of deuterium we can use though...its in the upper atmosphere, close to the exosphere, it'll be a fucking nightmare to get it.
>We can't practically colonize venus because hydrogen is just way too difficult to obtain from the atmosphere.
indeed, we'll have to use special machines that can attract hydrogen from space, clean it, put it into tanks and export them to a hindenburg sized zeppelin at 51km above the surface of hell...what could go wrong?.
it'll be horribly hard but we the right planning and technology I am sure we can start the step 1 of terraforming a new world.
>for fucking what? it's still hot as hell, there is also a non-zero probability that it's still geologically active and might produce rather large lava flows, we have some pretty good evidence that Venus is geologically active
except maxwell montes, for some reason that place is relativately calm compared to the rest of the planet, its peak is the coldest and least pressurized place on the planet.
a perfect place for a doomsday scenario sandbox, a place where we can actually experiment and build a backup plan in case a crisis happen on earth in case of a extinction event.
be it the mastery of dome construction or some kind of fortress who can last in the worst conditions...what if from that we figure out how to build anywhere in the world with no problems? be it the bottom of the ocean or the highest in the sky.
from islands to the poles, just about anywhere on the planet earth, all thanks to us experimenting on venus and figuring out how to build and survive in the worst conditions...even thrive and slowly start to dominate hell.
venus is just perfect for humans to snap out of it and terraform space.

>>11406046
It can be cooled in like 100 to 200 years with a shade, bit faster if there is some active cooling systems in place as well.

>>11406192
You don't really need to, the nitrogen will stay in the air and you can leave enough (or just get it from the frozen reserves) of co2 to make the neccessary oxygen with some algea or what ever.
The only thing that is missing is hydrogen which you can bring in either in the form of water or as hydrogen and take more co2 for the oxygen.


It's just uneconomical and no state or entity has capacity for 100+ year projects on anything but the simplest things right now either so it won't happen for a long time. Venus is still better candidate than mars since it needs less overall work and it's closer in size to earth and closer to the sun for better solar power too. Though honestly it might be questionable if at that stage there is even need for planetary living, I guess someone will eventually do it for fun but most people will probably be living fully in space by then.

>>11404391
A good schizo colony, I think.

>>11406321
>> that can attract hydrogen from space
ummm... excuse me, but what the fuck? Space is called space for a reason, there ain't fucking much shit in it. Good fucking luck capturing the couple of hydrogen atoms per cubic cm in the space around venus.
>>its peak is the coldest
it's still FUCKING HOT by human standards. It's HOTTER THAN THE MELTING POINT OF LEAD. No. You are not putting a habitat there. At these temperatures, air conditioning is damn near impossible. You can't get coefficients of performance >1.

>>11406410
still, the deuterium in the upper atmosphere should do the trick, in case if someone would like to inhabit venus and colonize it.
and about the habitat at the peak of maxwell montes...that may come in handy later, like centuries later.
my idea of making that place habitable was not essencially building an habitat on top but making it a few km higher if just merely 1, like tetris we slowly descend hardened blocks of pure carbon into the peak and make a plataform, we slowly but surely start to fill that place and create a smooth plataform located higher in order to build an habitat on top of that, crazy huh? but thats too much trouble and many things could go wrong.
so here is a new idea, we keep the hindenburg sized zeppelins(which will be coated with teflon or something) but instead of habitats, they become terraformers programmed to cool the planet down, at least a little bit or just enough to lower the habitable zone from 50km above surface to somewhere around 12km or 11km above the surface.
a swarm of millions constantly cooling down the planet may eventually do the trick, maybe decades or a century.

>>11406471
By what process you suppose a zeppelin is going to be cooling down the atmosphere. Please don't say airconditioning

>>11406473
You could have the top surface covered in radiative cooling material. There's stuff that can take in ambient heat and radiate it out into space in infrared wavelengths that are poorly absorbed by the atmosphere. That said, I don't know how the demands will differ in Venus's atmosphere compared to Earth.

Combined with solar shades it could be fairly effective, though the material requirements would still be retarded.

>>11406482
Ye that's just retarded and wrong, solar shades actually work, the meme zeppelins don't and aren't neccessary to the process

>>11406473
>Please don't say airconditioning
no, it won't be airconditioning.
it'll be more like cleaning the planet atmosphere from its excessive amounts of CO2.
remember venus atmosphere is compossed 96.5% CO2, that causes the planet to heat up to downright demonic levels.
we need to clean the planet from its excessive CO2, the zeppelins will defuse the CO2 and separate the carbon from the oxigen, then transform that carbon into artificial diamonds, so that it can withstand heat of the surface.
maxwell montes could be used as a trashbin, pretty much a carbon landfill.
if we clean the atmosphere just enough, we may have a promising world to terraform in the next centuries.
maybe even have enough material to build giant protective shades to filter or block the sunlight from the planet in the future.
but for now, the step 1 of making venus an ideal place to colonize would be through giant zeppelins that will clean the planet atmosphere from its excessive CO2.

>>11406501
>we need to clean the planet from its excessive CO2
Yes, and what would that process be exatly?

>the zeppelins will defuse the CO2 and separate the carbon from the oxigen, then transform that carbon into artificial diamond
Diamonds burn in venusian temperature and any free oxygen will quickly combine back up to various compounds as well.

Again meme zeppelins won't actually do anything except waste time and energy when a solar shade is doing all the work

also I am NOT this guy >>11406482
I realized that despite hindenburg sized zeppelins are a good option to live, its only a temporal solution, for short term missions that will make you live for years there then its perfect but not for a permanent residence.
since the can last years if not a decade in the clouds of venus, what if we used these swarm of hindenburg sized zeppelins as the step 1 of terraforming the planet? imagine these giant factories in the sky that constantly defuse CO2 into diamonds and oxigen.
it defuses sulphuric acid into water too.
in the long run it'll cool down the entire planet and make it more habitable than mars.
we can just bury the artificial diamonds or use them to build giant shades that will protect venus from heating again.
now the problem is the magnetosphere and the day-night cycle.

>>11406512
there has to be a way to collect all that CO2 and transform it into shades that will cool down the planet.
a swarm of zeppelin factories meme seems to be the most reliable way to collect the material for the shades and clean the planet atmosphere as a bonus.
from where will you get the material necessary to build the shades and how will you get the material there?.

>>11406537
>there has to be a way to collect all that CO2 and transform it into shades that will cool down the planet.
No that's just retarded, you can't make shades out of co2 and even if you could why on earth would you go down to venus to get inferior materials to stuff that's readily available for cheaper in space.

>clean the planet atmosphere as a bonus.
They can't actually do this

>>11406527
>imagine these giant factories in the sky that constantly defuse CO2 into diamonds and oxigen.
The diamonds simply burn back to co2

>in the long run it'll cool down the entire planet and make it more habitable than mars.
it doesn't actually do this. In fact it does the opposite of heating the planet since you are just doing work that has no impact.

>>11404085
There is absolutely no data on births in 0g
Are you just willingly retarded. I seethe when luddites like you post.

>>11404391
Unirionically a fantastic place to launch pure steel fuel depot ships, the cold would harden them up something fierce and the natural abundance of in atmosphere fuel would fantastic for launching.

>>11406542
well then, maybe our answer is not on venus but on mercury.
is a planet rich in minerals and metals.
a perfect place to transform it into a planetary mine.
we build factories there, build solar glasses and launch them into space through a special railgun or something similar, thanks to mercury low gravity and no atmosphere we can actually escape the planet without the need of a rocket and actually send stuff to space with relative ease.
these factories will have the purpose of building a dyson swarm.
it'll be special mirrors that'll swarm the entire star and grasp the enormous energy the sun will provide.
through this dyson swarm, we will have the energy to completely disassemble the entire planet for its resource through exponential growth, with just 1 special solar mirror we will have the energy to build 2, from those 2 we get 4 and on and on.
after the process is complete we use mercury metals and minerals to build the shades at the cost of the planet absolute deconstruction.
we are implying a lot here(like a permanent presence in mercury and the building of factories on the small planet), but the only feasible way I see to terraform venus is through mercury.

>>11406564
Plase stop pretending to be retarded

>>11406567
these ideas to terraform really gives you a lot to think.
remember, these are just ideas and how we could terraform worlds and what methods we could use.
how would you terraform venus, I know that with shades but where will you get the materials and how will you bring the materials there? what would you use to build the shades and how will you install them there?.
who knows, maybe you actually have a good idea on how to terraform venus the right way, you only have to share it.

>>11406587
It's been shared, stop pretending to be retarded and illiterate.

>>11406471
>>the deuterium in the upper atmosphere
HELL NO. Venus doesn't have more deuterium, it's just the deuterium to hydrogen ratio is higher than on earth. It exists at about ppm concentrations or less:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/43233551/Observations_of_DH_ratios_in_H2O_HCl_and20160301-13757-19fpel8.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DObservations_of_D_H_ratios_in_H2O_HCl_an.pdf&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A%2F20200222%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20200222T053324Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=1f4bed87c803d06b825f4456045f2cdbef81a8e70cee5f0cb04f566a09f0f62d
So again, VENUS DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH HYDROGEN.
>>making it a few km higher
is still HOT AS HELL! Only above about 17 km is it less than the melting point of lead
>>hardened blocks of pure carbon
are not exactly stable in Venus corrosive atmosphere
>>smooth plataform
good fucking luck building on a FUCKING MOUNTAIN. You'd also be building a fucking tall structure out of godforsaken bricks!
>>crazy
batshit
>>coated with teflon
and how the fuck do you make teflon on Venus? How the FUCK do you extract practical amounts of fluorine from the atmosphere?

>>11406636
>and how the fuck do you make teflon on Venus? How the FUCK do you extract practical amounts of fluorine from the atmosphere?
we import it from earth of course.
where the hell do you think it'll come from?.

>>11406592
you are no fun.
can goof around it seems.

>>11406691
pretending to be retarded isn't funny, it's not even pretending to be funny

>>11406658
impractical. You want to cool the entire damn surface of venus with teflon coated blimps, which seems like a fucking ridiculous amount of fluorine to import from earth.
>>where the hell do you think it'll come from?
the atmosphere, it exists at 1-5 ppb. Which don't sound like much, but it has a major effect on corrosion. It causes aluminum foil to degrade, because most aluminum foil contains 2% magnesium which react with the HF to form magnesium fluoride:
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2017EA000355
And that happened pretty rapidly too, test only ran to 21 days. Awwww fug. Maybe you can use this approach to extract fluorine from the atmosphere. Sink a big pot of magnesium powder, pull it back up after a month or so, crack the MgF2, collect F2, make magnesium back into powder and do it again. Probably takes a lot less energy than continuously running a compressor with a flow rate about of the yangtze river and freezing HF out of the goddamn atmosphere. Be interesting to see if we could get chlorine in a similar manner. We really need to better understand the chemistry of the lower atmosphere of Venus to figure out if this will work. That goddamn fucking hydrogen's still a problem

>>11402310
i like this post

>>11406120
>>11406337
Huh, I'm suddenly much more interested in Venus. Aren't we scheduling a new probe there? I've always felt like we should colonize both Mars AND Venus desu.

Colonize the Moon. Make it into a major spaceport, spacecraft construction facility, research station, mining facility, etc.
Colonize and terraform Mars
Colonize and terraform Venus
Colonize Ceres, Ganymede, and Europa, ship their water to Earth, Mars, and Venus
Set up atmospheric mining facilities for Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune
Mine the asteroid belt

Then create O'neill and Stanford Torus space colonies for fun and profit, also further population control.

>>11407745
Earth doesn't really need water.
About Mars it's a bit crude but bombarding it deviating comets it's quite quicker.

you can't "terraform" the moon because there is no "terra" meaning earth.
its like saying "lets build a city in the heart of the Mojave desert"

>>11407775
>Earth doesn't really need water.
I was thinking about the upcoming water crisis but I suppose we might be able to find a solution for that. Maybe better isru and desalination.

>About Mars it's a bit crude but bombarding it deviating comets it's quite quicker.
Why not both?

>>11407783
Yup. But honestly, colonizing the Moon is probably much, much more important than anything else short-term. We really should be putting much more into settling permanently on the Moon and building infrastructure there.

>>11406701
then we should send a probe and throughly analyze the atmosphere tonsee if we can get a zeppelin in there.
the winds of venus are terrible, they are 355km per hour, so a zeppelin is the only option for a damn colony to settle down.

>>11406592
>It's been shared, stop pretending to be retarded and illiterate.
Do not change the subject here anon and start sharing your ideas or point them out if you shared them

>>11403586
GIBS ME DAT

>>11408057
>>zeppelin
doesn't matter a fucking bit for this. We need to understand the chemistry of the lower atmosphere. Not the upper atmosphere. The proposed Venus DAVINCI mission would be ideal for doing this. DAVINCI would also analyze the chemistry of the clouds too. It's about fucking time we send some modern fucking science gear to Venus.

>>11408082
I would suggest for it to land on the peak of maxwell montes but it'll defeat the purpose of DAVINCI.
I don't why I keep mentioning the peak of maxwell montes, maybe it is because its the perfect place to begin the conquest of venus since the conditions there are more affordable than the rest of the planet.
it is not geologically active so...

>>11402313
In the US? Because sub-Saharan Africa is projected to explode in population in the next 50 years, and it's already happening.

>>11408106
I'm afraid you're a hopeless popsci retard. You haven't really made a good case for Maxwell Montes.
>>suggest for it to land on the peak of maxwell montes
rule 1 of landing, pick somewhere flat. All the probe has is a parachute, it's going wherever the wind blows.

>t. anon PhD

>>11388755
>just replenish
With what? From where?

>>11388788
>almost all of the science is done
That's something scientists have believed since ancient Greece. Stopped reading there.

>>11396274
Not if you start with a dumbbell shape having a habitat at each end. You would then extend your construction, from each end, flowing out in both directions along the rim, adding modules as needed. (This would start off a double crescent.) The final shape would be a complete ring, like Elysium.

>>11388737
Yeah, good luck.

No seriously, you're gonna need luck. The moon would suck as a terraforming target. You've got;

-1/6 of Earth's gravity (Have fun trying to maintain bone density)

-A dead core, so no magnetic field to speak of

-Mass that's too low to hold on to any kind of substantial atmosphere for more than a million years, if that

-Perhaps most important, the lack of a rotation cycle. The moon is tidally locked to the earth. You'd have 15 days sunshine on one side and 15 days darkness on the other. That's gonna seriously fuck up any chance of you seeding a working biosphere except for the most extremophile of organisms.

In sum, Shit's Fucked. Lunar Colonies definitely should (and hopefully will) be a thing, but terraforming it? Fuck no. Waste of time, money, and lives. Unless you were up a notch on the Kardashev scale there'd be no real point.

>>11389947
You have to remember that those figures are slightly screwed up by the fact that venus has 90 times the amount of gas present in Earth's atmosphere. So while Venus' atmosphere is definitely majority CO2, if you froze that, the remaining ~1% Nitrogen content would be roughly comparable to the amount of Nitrogen we already have on Earth.

If you get a little Oxygen separation going on with all that CO2 you should end up with a pretty manageable atmosphere similar to our own, same density, roughly same mass, and hopefully same ratios of gasses.

The only problem I could see that would be an ongoing challenge is creating some form of ocean on Venus for Plate Tectonics and to help trap the CO2, as well as helping with climate regulation. While we have an idea of what caused Venus' greenhouse effect to go runaway, we still wouldn't know if we might repeat that process by accident if we introduced a significant amount of H2O to the planet.

Even then though, we still have two major problems that would undo everything we're working for; Venus' rotation and core. Venus has one of the longest rotational periods in the solar system-- it orbits the sun in a shorter time than it rotates, and even then it rotates backwards compared to earth! How do you speed up a planet's rotation? Give it a moon? Impact it hard enough that it starts spinning? Either choice isn't pretty. On the other hand though, you probably could employ the use of some sort of massive solar shade that rotates around the planet once every 24 hours. Sure, you wouldn't exactly solve the issue of the planet's slow rotation, but you'd fix it enough for it not to be a huge problem.

The core though, is a big problem. Without an active core like Earth, Venus' atmosphere, even today, is slowly being leached away by Solar Wind. Not only that, but the increased amount of radiation not being blocked off by the sun means anyone living on this Terra formed Venus would have to live in lead lined containers.

>>11388788
Regards to the jellow babies, we have not tested this at all. We only know have two data points namely 0G (microgravity) and 1G. Nothing about the data points in between; we dont know if it is linear.

pic of terraformed mars after the soicuck soience fanbois of /sci/ get done with it

>>11388814
>Sulfuric acid and sulfur dioxide vapor clouds
>no surface to land on
>Best place for colonisation
lmao

>>11412217
>creating some form of ocean on Venus for Plate Tectonics and to help trap the CO2,
Since Venus has no plate tectonics (and thus no internal dynamo) how are you going to fix the whole cosmic radation thing?

bump

>>11412311
Lead lined bunkers or some sort of artificial solar array to help reduce the amount of cosmic radiation. It's by no means perfect, but it's better than nothing. Also, who knows? If we actually get to the point where we as a species are actively trying to terraform a planet other than earth, we might have also found a way to create an active internal dynamo/ magnetic field on a planet wide scale.

>>11412294
yes it is ironically.
mars is too small.
and venus is the perfect sandbox for testing technology that may help us dominate the entire solar system, especifically gas giants.
maybe with enough development in venus, it may be possible to terraform it in the future(I give it 1000 years to begin).
imagine that in venus through testing technology, we manage to figure out a way for us to inhabit jupiter and saturn.

For real though, as much as I genuinely think we should be going to Mars, we should be making Venus just as much of a priority really. I think people get caught up on the, "Hotter than hell," thing. Once you cool it down via sunshades, it should be cool enough to land on, then you can start constructing infrastructure to start shipping all the frozen CO2 to Mars. Literally kill two birds with one stone. I suppose it doesn't hurt to land on Mars and start colonizing it though.

>>11412311
>Since Venus has no plate tectonics (and thus no internal dynamo)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/science/venus-volcanoes-active.html
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/1/eaax7445

That's where you're wrong, anon.

>>11413889
How does one even go about colonizing a gas giant? I do think we should set up atmospheric mining stations though.

>>11408289
Gas from his ass obviously

>>11414227
>That's where you're wrong, anon.
Okay so there are some indications that the planet is still able to produce some geological events. However, 1. we have not conclusive proof of this, 2. that does not mean a planet has plate tectonics and 3. even if it had, the planet still has no magnetic field (caused by the lack of an interal dynamo).

>>11414227
>Once you cool it down via sunshades, it should be cool enough to land on, then you can start constructing infrastructure to start shipping all the frozen CO2 to Mars.
The sun is not the problem as much as the atmosphere is

>>11414350
For the last one, we could just create an artificial magnetic dipole shield, similar to what we could do for Mars.

>>11414377
>The sun is not the problem as much as the atmosphere is
You'd need to find some way to inject a ton of hydrogen into the atmosphere. Possibly through shipping the element from Jupiter or Saturn.

>>11414227
>I do think we should set up atmospheric mining stations though.
thats exactly why we should use venus as a sandbox for experimentation.
whatever happens, the results will matter.

>>11414417
what about ceres?
it is relativately close to mars and have a lot of hydrogen and nitrogen.

>>11414814
Meh, I think we'll probably go to Venus eventually. I think the plan is Mars for now because it's so much more readily doable. With Venus, there's the question of how exactly do you get floating cities there, and once established there, how do you get people from there, to Venus orbit, and eventually back to Earth?

>>11414816
Oh shit, you're right. For some reason, whenever I think of Ceres, I just think of the fact that it probably (I think?) has an internal ocean, which could be used to refill Venus and Mars' oceans.

>>11388737
>>11388737
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_lava_tube

These are our cheapest and best bet on our first foray into interplanetary settlement. We won't need a full biosphere on that rock for quite some time. Better to start smaller, figure out what works and what doesn't. Then, we can move onto domes and eventually gassing up the entire thing.

Also a side-note, the moon does not have the protection of a magnetosphere. We have to figure out how project one well enough artificially before we can attempt any real terraforming on a global scale, The other issue is that fact that the moon is just not pulling stuff down as hard as the earth is and that will force you to continuously produce more and more atmosphere unless you have a form of physical containment. I am pretty sure the best you will ever see on the moon in the next 1000 years is some rather large domes in strategic spots all over the surface that have been turned into viable biospheres. They would take alot less to build big on the moon than on earth. Look at what they built those moon rover wheels out of during the Apollo era. The moon is a bad /DIY/er's wet dream. Everything could be made out of fuckin' soda cans glued together and still be structurally sound.

Also, I wonder what kind of ridiculous structures could be accomplished with bamboo in such low gravity.

>>11414878
if you want bamboo to remain firm yet grow gigantic then mars is the way.

>>11414850
>With Venus, there's the question of how exactly do you get floating cities there, and once established there, how do you get people from there, to Venus orbit, and eventually back to Earth?
these videos may probe useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-zZkuGAVQY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI-old7YI4I
also we could use aquaponics and aquariums with special fishes to feed the crew, maybe even woodfrogs since they withstand being frozen.

>>11414850
>For some reason, whenever I think of Ceres, I just think of the fact that it probably (I think?) has an internal ocean, which could be used to refill Venus and Mars' oceans.
it'll be better suited for mars...

"Lava tubes at least 500 m underground can theoretically remain stable with widths of up to 5 km."

>>11415053
with lower gravity, you can technically build bigger and still remain stable.
olympus mons peak literally is outside of the atmosphere and its height is 22km, thats just on mars.
on the moon, you'll literally can build something big with relativately cheap materials.

>>11388737
How do you terraform something with no atmosphere retard

>>11388788
Just give the baby some weights.

>>11388737
Imagine.....a terraformed EVROPA.....

>>11415241
you constantly crash comets on the moon, I say 100 BIG ice meteors would do the trick, you know...the type that you can certainly see from earth if they impacted the moon.
after that ungodly bombardment, we'll have a proper icy atmosphere, nitrogen and hydrogen will create a temporal atmosphere and the moon will enter its first ice age from the sheer cold.
the atmosphere and the winds there will ensure the planet remain in ice for a few thousand years.
it'll do good...since then we'll have an actual reliable source of water we can send to earth in case a crisis happened.

>>11415241
Give it some gasses.

>>11415319
if you ever get a time machine, you could technically travel a billion of years in the future and get to see the sun go red giant.
then you'll get to see a naturally terraformed europa, because it'll be in the habitable zone and the gas giant will protect it from the sun.

>>11388828
>We should terraform earth
This. All that land in Antarctica, Greenland, and the Canadian and Russian Arctic is wasted.

>>11402313
> Birth rates are plummeting all over the planet.
Population has doubled in my lifetime. It may be too late.

>>11388923
I like how the redditor who made the original image didn't even bother to change the ghetto speak

>>11415334
It will just fly off into space again dude.

>>11388737
>We should terraform the moon before we terraform the other planets
Why should we terraform any other major celestial body before we simply adapt our own to thriving on it?

What need would Cybernetic post-humans have for an atmosphere when they would be perfectly fine surviving in a vacuum?

>>11416196
This, while I could see that some people will still opt out for a biological existence but terraforming is a waste of effort. Just built your own worlds, space habitats could house millions or even billions each. But the majority will be digital beings that will built massive swarms around the stars.
The first century of space colonization will be made by transhumans, gene-modded nanoborgs but early on posthuman beings will become the architects of a interplanetary society.

>>11388981
You absolute fucking moron

But moon does not have any atmosphere it would be better to terraform mara

>>11416233
>This, while I could see that some people will still opt out for a biological existence but terraforming is a waste of effort.
eugenics may pose a solution to a problem current humanity suffers from.
then from eugenics to mechanics and then to transcend both biologically and technologically.
also terraforming may become a hobby for future humanity, kinda like having a terrarium.

>>11415412
but how long will it remain there, that is the question there.
even if it is for 1000, we will still have water to drink from and export from the moon to the earth.

>>11416255
Cybernetics is going to come at us in the next 75 to 150 years. Once we figure out how to graft neurons, the process will accelerate. That's a far shorter length of time than what would be required for eugenics. You're better off just gene editing yourself to perfection before gradually replacing parts of your body with something beyond perfection

>>11416255
>eugenics may pose a solution to a problem current humanity suffers from.
Eugenics is outdated. Genetic engineering is far more precise, powerful, adaptable and requires no totalitarian state. And we already have the tools for it, we only require 10 to 20 years to be able to safely implement it on a societal scale. To prevent any social crisis, genetic augmented elite vs poor masses, I argue in favour of a public health system that ensures that everyone gets the benefits of genetic engineering.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1408.3421

>muh space mining
here is your minerals bro, the most abundant minerals on fucking earth but you waste tons of valuable limited resources to get them from the moon

>>11416365
>Thinking that we are going to import metals from space to earth
I can imagine H3 mining or getting Platinum to earth but everything else will be used for space infrastructure.

>>11416250
we can use mars moons to terraform it quick.

>>11416365
>the most abundant minerals on fucking earth but you waste tons of valuable limited resources to get them from the moon
>here is your Earth induced gravity well and payload limitations bro

Fucking moron.

>>11416365
>>11416774
Are there any things that would be best mined off-Earth, assuming we had the tech to do so?

>>11416786
Almost everything except some specific treated materials that can only be made on Earth.

It is much more cost efficient to just capture astroids and bring them into a bay in the middle of a ring station and dismantle them in zero-g. Then use those minerals on planets like Mars or refine them in space factories (for the lack of a better word)

>>11412196
you don't need sunshine in a lava tube.

>>11415214
Agreed, that was my post you replied to. I mention a post or two up that something like soda cans are in fact immensely strong at 1/6th g

>>11416258
>>11416258

Well, "scientists" estimate it would take the Earth about 6 billion to lose it's atmosphere once the core locks up. However, thats with 1g of force holding everything down. Since 1/6th g is less force than is needed to even keep gaseous CO2 bound to the gravity well, I would assume that the winds and the lack of downwards gravimetric pressure is going to cause that gas to move off the sphere alot faster. Thats as far as I can take that line of thinking though since i'm not breaking out the calculator and physics text book.

If I was going to bet money on it though, I would think it would be rather fast since it would not just be the winds at play here. I'll put 5 bucks on 250-1000 years.

Probably would only be surpassed in waste and hubris if we were to try it on mars.

>>11417616
>I'll put 5 bucks on 250-1000 years.
if by then we didn't figure out how to preserve our new water source then it'll be a pretty heavy loss.
>Probably would only be surpassed in waste and hubris if we were to try it on mars.
in mars I see it'll take up to 1 million years max to lose its new atmosphere.

>>11416365
>tfw nobody will harvest mercury's core nor even haverst our own planet core
>not even consider the moon or mars core for mining resources
>not even to build a giant ship that can go to another star