/sci/ - Science & Math

Remember when it was called gender identity disorder like a year ago. Must have been too offensive

>>11376210
god fucking damnit why do you keep spamming the board with this shit this is liek the 5th fucking thread you posted

>>11376225
It was too offensive

>>11376210
>literally no contact with trannies
>spend all your time thinking about them
Epic

>>11376572
>tfw no tgf
;_;

>>11376580
>tfw no hrt
:c

>>11376582
i'll get you some but if you don't pass you'll owe for it plus interest.

>>11376210

It's not the same thing.

Transgender is not just "my body is ugly I need to change it"

They FEEL in a very powerful way like the other gender. They have a different brain structure to normies.

>>11376863

There's clearly some mental health issues going on there. It's not like you can define something like "feminine mindset" it's all abritrary bullshit.

>>11376210
They are not the same thing. Symptoms, treatment and aetiology of each disorder are vastly different from each other. We know from dozens of study transgenders are best helped with gender-affirming medical interventions whereas BDD patients seem to benefit most from psychotherapy plus SSRIs. Did you think each disorder possesses its distinct name for fun?
>>11377056
When describing mental phenomena it is impossible to avoid arbitrary terminology as you are dealing with subjective experience. In addition, it is very much possible to define a thing such as "feminine mindset" just as much as any type of mindset can be described. In fact, a mindset can be approached by various measures: surveys, behavior observations, brain imaging, etc.

>>11377481

Ok but "feminine mindset" in a male alone is not enough to make that person trans. What's the difference between completely normal males who act and think like females versus those who transition?

My answer is M____l i_______s

what's yours?

The issue is confused because people conflate the real thing of sex with the imaginary concept of gender. Gender is largely made up of social constructs, so a person choosing to follow features of a different gender from normal is not really a big deal, and that's pretty much what an effeminate man or tomboy is. What we now refer to as transgender would more accurately be called transsex people, because what they actually are attempting and seeking is to be a different biological sex, which is actually physically impossible and mental illness.

>>11376863
>"my body isn't what i want it to be i need to change it"
p much identical, just switch ugly for feminine/masculine.

>>11377481
>symptoms, aetiology
see above. are the same, stress over their body not being what they want it to be.
>treatment
plastic surgery would be far more effective than the supposed treatment which fails most of the time.

>>11377541
>see above
You cannot just interchange words for other ones while assuming the same principles apply for both statements.
>are the same
The symptoms are not identical even though it may look to you to be the same. Also, I am pretty sure there is no feminization of the fetus in BDD individuals.
>plastic surgery would be far more effective than the supposed treatment which fails most of the time
False. BDD individuals are typically dissatisfied with outcomes of surgical procedures. In contrast, transgenders are actually happy with results of gender -related surgery.

>>11376225
>gender identity disorder

>>11377538
>imaginary concept of gender. Gender is largely made up of social constructs

So wait, why is there a disorder for someone who believes in the concept of gender but feels their own self-concept of it (their gender identity) is the opposite from that of someone of the other sex, the entire concept itself is imaginary in the first place and pretty much belief based to begin with isn't it?

>>11376210
There's no point in debating the far left. Their strategy is to change/manipulate the definitions of words that have been universally agreed upon by society into vague and idiotic interpretations.

For example, claiming it's impossible to be racist towards whites because racism means "privilege plus power", and claiming gender is a "social construct".

>>11377585
>You cannot just interchange words for other ones while assuming the same principles apply for both statements.
it is the same. they have an issue with the aspect of their body. the only difference with gender dysphoria is that it is to to do with sexual characteristics. but flesh is flesh.
>The symptoms are not identical even though it may look to you to be the same. Also, I am pretty sure there is no feminization of the fetus in BDD individuals.
trivial difference. it's all about flesh and tissues not being to the person's liking.
>False. BDD individuals are typically dissatisfied with outcomes of surgical procedures. In contrast, transgenders are actually happy with results of gender -related surgery.
false, surgery is only satisfactory if the outcome meet's the patients wants. this is true in both cases. there are some terrible outcomes for surgery when it comes to gender dysphoria where they look like some weird amalgamation of masculine and feminine traits, aka not passing. they're not happy with this. however if surgery meets the expectations in either case the patient is happy.

>>11377585
>You cannot just interchange words for other ones while assuming the same principles apply for both statements.
it is the same. they have an issue with the aspect of their body. the only difference with gender dysphoria is that it is to to do with sexual characteristics. but flesh is flesh.
>The symptoms are not identical even though it may look to you to be the same. Also, I am pretty sure there is no feminization of the fetus in BDD individuals.
trivial difference. it's all about flesh and tissues not being to the person's liking.
>False. BDD individuals are typically dissatisfied with outcomes of surgical procedures. In contrast, transgenders are actually happy with results of gender -related surgery.
false, surgery is only satisfactory if the outcome meets the patients wants. this is true in both cases. there are some terrible outcomes for surgery when it comes to gender dysphoria where they look like some weird amalgamation of masculine and feminine traits, aka not passing. they're not happy with this. however if surgery meets the expectations in either case the patient is happy. so really the only cure here is to get surgery right.

>>11376210
cos my body exists and gender doesnt

>>11378415
>trivial difference.
The difference between red and green is trivial for the colorblind. You can't make assumptions about an experience you cannot have.

>>11378449
oh pls spare me this nonsense. this is like saying you need to be a schizophrenic to understand what's happening in schizophrenia. guess what most researchers don't have the illness they research. i don't need to experience something to describe it. i can observe what it is about and develop a model that fits.

>>11378458
Yeah but you aren't a researcher, you're a random person on an internet forum. If you have done research into the similarities and differences between body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria please produce your data for the thread.

>>11378449
What was the name of the schizophrenic who determined it was a mental disorder?

>>11378418
prove your body exists

directly after that prove that gender doesnt

>>11378469
Eugen Bleuler.

>>11378470

you're making the claims about gender you have burden of proof.

I also can't prove saunta claus doesn't exist, that doesn't make him real.

>>11378465
ok, here it is:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24508222
>At the 1-year postoperative follow-up, there was a significant decrease from baseline in BDDE scores and time spent by patients worrying about their appearance; 25 (25/31, 81%) patients experienced complete remission from BDD and 28 (28/31, 90%) were satisfied with the results of surgery.
p similar to gender dysphoria.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4261554/
>119 (46.9%) of the patients filled out and returned the questionnaires, at a mean of 5.05 years after surgery (standard deviation 1.61 years, range 1–7 years). 90.2% said their expectations for life as a woman were fulfilled postoperatively. 85.4% saw themselves as women. 61.2% were satisfied, and 26.2% very satisfied, with their outward appearance as a woman; 37.6% were satisfied, and 34.4% very satisfied, with the functional outcome. 65.7% said they were satisfied with their life as it is now.

as i said. this is all about flesh not being to the person's liking. the only difference is gender dysphoria is about sexual flesh characteristics.

>>11376210
define "mental illness"

>>11378477
he wasn't a schizophrenic tho. nor autist. nor schizoid. yet he coined all those terms.

>>11378494
You want to know how I know you aren't a researcher?
You compared studies with different followup times.

>>11378504
you know how i know you're desperate? you'l nitpick every minutae which doesn't fucking matter.

>>11378508
Ntg, but your study is biased to such an extent, I am surprised you would dare to refer to it.

>>11377538
>Gender is largely made up of social constructs
Gender is and basically always has been an analogue for binary sex characteristics and for most of human history, indeed even in the present day throughout most of the world, has been completely interchangeable with the concept of "sex", with a majority of cultures (at least from a philological stance) throughout history not even acknowledging any distinction between the two, one was/is merely a conceptual continuation of the other.

In this manner, it is an observation, not a social construct in the same way that having a Y chromosome would not be a social construct. Behaving in a feminine manner is not a social construct as female behaviour is dictated by their biology, for example they are submissive toward healthy adult males because they are significantly weaker and smaller - what IS a social construct is trying to dismantle this paradigm through legislation and social advocacy.

>>11376863
>They FEEL in a very powerful way like the other gender. They have a different brain structure to normies.
No, they have absolutely no idea what being a woman feels like.
That's why they always behave like offensive stereotypes of what they think being a woman would feel like.

>>11376863
>I feel like a woman
>therefore, I am a woman
Bargain bin Descartes desu.

>>11379439
This is basically the entirety of what the societal justification for the existence of a "Gender identity" stands on, it's not a very solid foundation

>>11376863
>They have a different brain structure to normies.

So do schizophrenics and a number of other mentally ill people. It doesn't mean that you entertain their delusions, it means you pour research money into finding a way to fix them.

>>11376615
Med student?

>>11379428
So you think feminine boys or tomboys do not exist? Do trans people just not exist?
Because they may behave in a different way without regarding their biology. You are reducing the argument too much.

They should just do a brain scan on each person and look to see whether the person actually does have the brain of the opposite sex inside their skull.

>>11381110

Well obviously you wouldn't get the same result. Total brain mass between sexes isn't even remotely similar. Forensic scientists can differentiate skulls of different races and sexes at ~90% and using calliper measurements that goes up to like 98%.
https://imgur.com/MbXpu8v

>>11381110
It'd be something like certain parts are similar to female parts and vice versa, imo. I do reckon a bunch of current day trannies wouldn't possess that if it was found though

>>11378394
Depends. In Zimbabwe yes you can be racist to whites in the 2000’s but in American you can’t really in the same degree.

>>11381201
You sound like an idiot. Did someone give you that opinion and the example to go with it?

>>11376210
they are both mental illnesses. the difference is that one is treated like a mental illness, by not feeding into the mentally ill person's delusions, and the other one is treated in exactly the opposite way, resulting in 41%.

>>11381201
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY-yHd8Xms0&t=1s

>>11378415

>false, surgery is only satisfactory if the outcome meets the patients wants. this is true in both cases.
Patently false. You have no grasp on what BDD is. It's a cluster C disorder, ie. an obsession. GiD is an outlier in this sense because the definition of what consitutes dysphoria is so vague and experientially diverse the two are virtually incomparable. Yes, both disorders exhibit obsession with external appearance to some degree - no, that does not mean surgery cures BDD. BDD is a subset of OCD, so giving someone with BDD surgery is like telling someone with a hand washing obsession to "just do it right" or "clean them properly this time". Anecdotally, I've seen trans people do fine both with and without SRS - that's never the case with BDD:

>However, these treatments don’t usually make their appearance concerns disappear, often the level of distress and degree of concern remain unchanged, and in some cases, the appearance concerns may get worse
>https://bdd.iocdf.org/expert-opinions/cosmetic-treatments-and-bdd/

>>11381218
>41%
What's that a measure of, exactly?

>>11381379
I accidentally 41% of the thing anon.

>>11381385
Huh?

>>11381405
41% of it anon. Is this bad?

>>11381408
What is "it"?

>>11381298
wrong
>BDD is. It's a cluster C disorder, ie. an obsession
that is for personality disorders.
>BDD is a subset of OCD
no it isn't.
>so giving someone with BDD surgery is like telling someone with a hand washing obsession to "just do it right" or "clean them properly this time".
so? erp is shit. it doesn't work. fails after 2 years of remission. giving someone with bdd surgery is as effective as gender reassignment.
see:
>>11378494

>>11381421
The thing anon. I accidentally 41% of it here. Should I go to a doctor?

>>11381422
How do you know which is more effective when one is only a 1 year followup?

>>11381429
there is no doubt that remission will only last so long but i would argue that is likely due to aging undoing whatever the surgery accomplished rather than anything else. the thing is post op rhinoplasty helps people relieve their woes from bdd. it's kind hard to argue against the parallels with gid and bdd. both are about their stress from their physical appearance not being what they want it to be. gid being a much more extreme version of it since instead of it being "i don't like the shape of my nose', it's 'i don't like my entire body because it is that of a man'.

>>11381446
So basically you have an opinion.

>>11381452
more informed than yours.

>>11381471
>more informed than yours.
Oh, I guess you have multiple opinions then.

>>11379428
you dumb fucking nigger don't even know what a social construct is, here are some things that also are undisputedly SCs
>money
>the state
>language
>culture
to say gender is biological would mean a man born is the forest raised by wolfs would cut his hair short, speak, know manners, hate the color pink, etc.

>>11381446
>it's kind hard to argue against the parallels with gid and bdd
It absolutely isn't.
>both are about their stress from their physical appearance not being what they want it to be
Not at all. Distress in GD also relates to social norms pertaining to gender. I have no idea why you make it all about physical appearance, since it should be incredibly obvious that GD encompasses far more than outward appearance; think about sexual activity, hormones, social interactions just to name a few examples. You have a strange perspective on transgenders.
>gid being a much more extreme version of it since instead of it being "i don't like the shape of my nose', it's 'i don't like my entire body because it is that of a man'
You have no idea what you are talking about. We have a light version where some indiviudal intensely dislikes his or her nose and a hard version where a person wishes to change gender? Do you not see that we are dealing a totally different desire? Can you not understand that the subjective experience of BDD and GD patients are qualitatively dissimilar?

All potential trannies should be pumped with steroids daily, fed fresh meat and veg, sent to boot camp for half a year minimum and allowed no access to Chinese cartoons or social media. 100% cure rate guarantee.

>>11384319
>Distress in GD also relates to social norms pertaining to gender. I have no idea why you make it all about physical appearance
because reassignment surgery is so effective in treatment. all that is doing is altering body morphology just like with rhinoplasty but on a much bigger scale.
>think about sexual activity, hormones, social interactions just to name a few examples
all dependent on body morphology. understand that this is about biology where stricture and function are tied together. want to perform sexually like a woman? well you will need tissue shaped like a vagina. want people to recognize you like a woman? well you will need to look like one. mandating by law that people use your pronoun doesn't change how they really see you. hormones will require hormone therapy but it may be possible to one day alter the endocrine system directly.
>You have a strange perspective on transgenders.
i'm not blinded by their social constructionism and not at the mercy of the lgbtq lobby.
> We have a light version where some indiviudal intensely dislikes his or her nose and a hard version where a person wishes to change gender?
it's a much more extreme version of bdd where instead of it being "i don't like my nose' it's 'i don't like my genital structure fundamentally, my body shape as a whole, my facial structure, etc'.
>Can you not understand that the subjective experience of BDD and GD patients are qualitatively dissimilar?
the only difference is that gd is sexual body image while bdd is just an aspect of body image. just because something is sexual doesn't change the underlying fact that it's a stress over body image.

>>11376582

>>11384326
This is the cure.

>>11384326
Don't forget the most important part

>>11382945
>to say gender is biological would mean a man born is the forest raised by wolfs would cut his hair short, speak, know manners, hate the color pink, etc.
No it wouldn't you dumb faggot

>>11385677
>because reassignment surgery is so effective in treatment. all that is doing is altering body morphology just like with rhinoplasty but on a much bigger scale
I was not talking about that surgical procedure or even body morphology in general. my point was that GD encompasses far more than physical appearance and you failed to address that point.
>all dependent on body morphology. understand that this is about biology where stricture and function are tied together. want to perform sexually like a woman? well you will need tissue shaped like a vagina. want people to recognize you like a woman? well you will need to look like one. mandating by law that people use your pronoun doesn't change how they really see you. hormones will require hormone therapy but it may be possible to one day alter the endocrine system directly.
I am going to assume you are referring to the basic concept of form corresponds to function here. I do not agree with your view that all aspects of GD stem from morphology. Social interaction for one depend a lot on sociocultural factors. To think that makeup, gender norms, fashion etc. all derive primarily from biology would be a mistake.
>i'm not blinded by their social constructionism and not at the mercy of the lgbtq lobby
Indeed; I can agree with that. You demonstrate clear influences from other sources.
>it's a much more extreme version of bdd where instead of it being "i don't like my nose' it's 'i don't like my genital structure fundamentally, my body shape as a whole, my facial structure, etc'.
It is a fundamentally different disorder. Comparing and equating GD with BDD is a stupid error committed by lay men.
1/2

>>11387038
>the only difference is that gd is sexual body image while bdd is just an aspect of body image. just because something is sexual doesn't change the underlying fact that it's a stress over body image
Again your bias shows itself. GD involves far, far more than just sexual and anatomical aspects. Why can you not get that into your skull?
2/2

>>11387038
>I was not talking about that surgical procedure or even body morphology in general. my point was that GD encompasses far more than physical appearance and you failed to address that point.
it really doesn't. the roles people play are a result of physical morphology. just like having a nicer nose does as well. don't pretend attractiveness isn't about the roles people have in society. you can't be a model and be ugly.
>To think that makeup, gender norms, fashion etc. all derive primarily from biology would be a mistake.
they totally are though. you can't wear a dress made for an hourglass if you have a body of a man, it won't fit. gender norms exist because of the biological roles of men and women in the reproductive game.
>It is a fundamentally different disorder. Comparing and equating GD with BDD is a stupid error committed by lay men.
you keep asserting this without substantially thinking things through, layman.

>>11387042
your problem is you only looked at gdd and have not looked at patients with bdd. they are the same. your lens is hyper focused on gdd while omitting bdd. that is why you are ok calling bdds delusional but take offense when someone says the same of gdds. personally i don't think it is helpful to call either delusional. both people need help.

>>11388291
>it really doesn't. the roles people play are a result of physical morphology
Are you really going to claim social roles, culture and behavioral norms are solely the result of morphology?
>they totally are though
This is getting even funnier. Explain to me how every seasonal cycle of winter fashion coats and summer shoe hype is coming from biology?
>gender norms exist because of the biological roles of men and women in the reproductive game
Today, few people care about reproduction. Reproduction is no longer seen as every person's duty. Gender norms still exist though for a large variety of reasons and biological reasons form just one part of those.
>you keep asserting this without substantially thinking things through, layman.
Above it was already mentioned how the vast differences in treatment support the statement that BDD and GD are completely different disorders. Moreover I brought up aetiology differences further indicating that BDD and GD are not similar. Also, a cursory eyeballing of the literature will reveal that BDD is seen as a form of OCD and GD is its own special identity disorder.
>>11388309
>your problem is you only looked at gdd and have not looked at patients with bdd
Nice assumption.
>they are the same
False.
>your lens is hyper focused on gdd while omitting bdd
Interesting choice of words. It is said of BDD patients that they hyper focus on perceived flaw(s).
>that is why you are ok calling bdds delusional
I never said anything like that.
>but take offense when someone says the same of gdds
Because that is an incredibly dumb thing to say ignoring decades of research.

>>11388380
>Few people care about reproduction
Thats a fucking reach and a half

>>11376210
cause they are far left wound fetishists

>>11388404
You can't be serious. Have you looked at birth rates? Do you live in Africa? Did you try google and not find studies like this one?
https://research.vu.nl/en/publications/the-attitude-toward-voluntary-childlessness-in-europe-cultural-an

>>11388431
When you break it down further you'll realise you only care less about reproduction the more progressive you are, and that progressive isn't and overwhelming majority in which you make statements like 'few people care'. Your statement is intentionally broad and demoralising

>>11388380
>Are you really going to claim social roles, culture and behavioral norms are solely the result of morphology?
not solely but the crux of it has to do with our biology. why things are shaped the way they are is largely to do with morphology. t shirts are fitted to our form. keys are fitted to our fingers, tools, seats, etc. behaviors exist because of our biology, penis in vagina is the result of morphology.
>This is getting even funnier. Explain to me how every seasonal cycle of winter fashion coats and summer shoe hype is coming from biology?
well morphology dictates the shape of the clothing. in the summer you want thinner materials to keep cool while in the winter you want thicker to keep warm because of cell and tissue structure. notice how wolves don't need to wear coats in the winter.
>Above it was already mentioned how the vast differences in treatment support the statement that BDD and GD are completely different disorders.
mentioned, but not demonstrated. i showed you how surgery is effective in treating both.
>Moreover I brought up aetiology differences further indicating that BDD and GD are not similar.
unsubstantiated claims.
>a cursory eyeballing of the literature will reveal that BDD is seen as a form of OCD and GD is its own special identity disorder.
no it isn't ocd, ocd makes bdd worse but they are separate. this just illustrates how little you know of bdd and ocd. erp is incredibly ineffective, the remission at best lasts 2 years. gd is just a form of bdd, the identity has everything to do with how they look hence why reassignment surgery is so effective. you keep denying this and failing.
>It is said of BDD patients that they hyper focus on perceived flaw(s).
just like gd patients are hyperfocused on being in the "wrong body" and why their morphology changed.
>ignoring decades of research.
pottery, you're the one denying the research of the effectiveness on rhinoplasty and keep asserting bdd is a form of ocd.

>>11388380
missed one thing:
>Today, few people care about reproduction.
doesn't change the fact that sexual behavior evolved from this. whether or not they care about it overtly doesn't change the implicit nature of sexuality.

>>11388380
>Are you really going to claim social roles, culture and behavioral norms are solely the result of morphology?
not solely but the crux of it has to do with our biology. why things are shaped the way they are is largely to do with morphology. t shirts are fitted to our form. keys are fitted to our fingers, tools, seats, etc. behaviors exist because of our biology, penis in vagina is the result of morphology.
>This is getting even funnier. Explain to me how every seasonal cycle of winter fashion coats and summer shoe hype is coming from biology?
well morphology dictates the shape of the clothing. in the summer you want thinner materials to keep cool while in the winter you want thicker to keep warm because of cell and tissue structure. notice how wolves don't need to wear coats in the winter.
>Today, few people care about reproduction.
doesn't change the fact that sexual behavior evolved from this. whether or not they care about it overtly doesn't change the implicit nature of sexuality.
>Above it was already mentioned how the vast differences in treatment support the statement that BDD and GD are completely different disorders.
i showed you how surgery is effective in treating both. erp is incredibly ineffective, the remission at best lasts 2 years.
>a cursory eyeballing of the literature will reveal that BDD is seen as a form of OCD and GD is its own special identity disorder.
bdd is ocd-related. gd is just a form of bdd, the identity has everything to do with how they look hence why reassignment surgery is so effective. you keep denying this and failing.
>It is said of BDD patients that they hyper focus on perceived flaw(s).
just like gd patients are hyperfocused on being in the "wrong body" and why their morphology changed.
>ignoring decades of research.
pottery, you're the one denying the research of the effectiveness on rhinoplasty.

>>11388468
So it looks like you have no idea how the birth rates are right now.
>>11388517
>not solely but the crux of it has to do with our biology
Nope, biology is just one component in a complex multivariate equation. Sometimes it is the leading factor, at other times it plays almost no role.
>well morphology dictates the shape of the clothing. in the summer you want thinner materials to keep cool while in the winter you want thicker to keep warm because of cell and tissue structure. notice how wolves don't need to wear coats in the winter.
None of this explains why we have fashion, why we have fads, trends, hypes. Also, a lot of aspects of clothing are purely ornamental and limited to specific cultures. That means morphology does not dictate clothing.
>doesn't change the fact that sexual behavior evolved from this. whether or not they care about it overtly doesn't change the implicit nature of sexuality
This is all irrelevant.
>i showed you how surgery is effective in treating both
With that lousy study done on a small number of African-American patients for a rhinoplasty all sampled from a waiting list of plastic surgery? Are you for real? I have a hunch you are already aware of the racial characteristic of big noses of this population. Anyway, here are some real studies on the effectiveness of surgery on BDD:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144515300036
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3083632/
>gd is just a form of bdd
Present some evidence.
>just like gd patients are hyperfocused on being in the "wrong body" and why their morphology changed
I think you do not know what "hyperfocus" is. Again, bring some support if you want your opinions to be taken seriously.
>pottery, you're the one denying the research of the effectiveness on rhinoplasty
Are you daft? You are the one ignoring vast body of research on BDD and focusing on your one little shitty biased study. I just provided you two meta-analyses. Have fun reading them.

>>11389843
>So it looks like you have no idea how the birth rates are right now.
it's a function of population density.
>None of this explains why we have fashion
hmm that is why sandals are popular in the winter? yeah sure is not explained by biology being primary.
>a lot of aspects of clothing are purely ornamental and limited to specific cultures.
sure but how the ornaments are arranged is limited by biology. you can't functionally wear a boat anchor on your head.
>This is all irrelevant.
it's really not. sexual behaviors are the result of biological form and function. and gender roles are derived from that. what really doesn't matter is that there are some trivial ornamental difference between cultures that you are hyper focused on.
>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144515300036
>consultation reported dissatisfaction with the outcome
so in other words the surgeons didn't meet their ocd standards, ie did a shitty job. and since we're on that topic why don't we look at how shitty the remission rates are:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3932438/
>Present some evidence.
the fact that reassignment surgery is so effective. that is just altering morphology, ie body image. nothing is stopping a man from wearing a wig and putting on a dress but that clearly isn't enough. it isn't about the roles and whatnot as you claim. they want to be morphologically the sex they are focused on.
>hyperfocus
it's to do with adhd. which is the flip of ocd if you know the neurobiological roi underpinnings.
>I just provided you two meta-analyses
took you long enough. and yeah, just as predicted they failed to meet the patient's expectations. they didn't get the body image they wanted from the surgery. i'll give you this much, gd does seem easier to please with surgery.

>>11389843
>So it looks like you have no idea how the birth rates are right now.
it's a function of population density.
>None of this explains why we have fashion
hmm that is why sandals are popular in the winter? yeah sure is not explained by biology being primary.
>a lot of aspects of clothing are purely ornamental and limited to specific cultures.
sure but how the ornaments are arranged is limited by biology. you can't functionally wear a boat anchor on your head.
>This is all irrelevant.
it's really not. sexual behaviors are the result of biological form and function. and gender roles are derived from that. what really doesn't matter is that there are some trivial ornamental difference between cultures that you are hyper focused on.
>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1740144515300036
>consultation reported dissatisfaction with the outcome
so in other words the surgeons didn't meet their ocd standards, ie did a shitty job. and since we're on that topic why don't we look at how shitty the remission rates are with psychotherapy:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3932438/
>Present some evidence.
the fact that reassignment surgery is so effective. that is just altering morphology, ie body image. nothing is stopping a man from wearing a wig and putting on a dress but that clearly isn't enough. it isn't about the roles and whatnot as you claim. they want to be morphologically the sex they are focused on.
>hyperfocus
it's to do with adhd. which is the flip of ocd if you know the neurobiological roi underpinnings.
>I just provided you two meta-analyses
took you long enough. and yeah, just as predicted they failed to meet the patient's expectations. they didn't get the body image they wanted from the surgery. i'll give you this much, gd does seem easier to please with surgery.

>>11376210
Partly because they aren't the same thing, as >>11377481 points out. Also partly to make it more difficult for you and other paid servants of demagogues from arbitrarily and capriciously criminalizing disorders that are negligibly consequential to the community, compared to the one you have--which is one of the dark triad traits. Enormous and ancient institutions, such as the dramatic arts, the press, and constitutional law, exist primarily to defend against what you are.

>>11390700
npd is quite co-morbid with gid tho. and i'm not trying to criminalize anything nor am i a psychopath.

>>11390196
>it's a function of population density
Now that is a stretch.
>hmm that is why sandals are popular in the winter? yeah sure is not explained by biology being primary
Do you even have a clue of what fashion is or are you pretending to misunderstand my question directed to you so that you can easily evade it?
>sure but how the ornaments are arranged is limited by biology. you can't functionally wear a boat anchor on your head
As that is rendered impossible by the mass of the anchor. That is not even a biological reason but a physical reason. The ornaments that people actually do wear on their head is mainly determined by culture and far less by biology.
>sexual behaviors are the result of biological form and function. and gender roles are derived from that
No, gender roles have changed dramatically in Europe alone over the last 1000 years. That strongly suggests gender roles are malleable, change over time and are thus not mainly influenced by form and function.
>what really doesn't matter is that there are some trivial ornamental difference between cultures that you are hyper focused on
Differences between cultures indicate that you are not looking at a universal phenomenon meaning those differences actually matter a lot.
>so in other words the surgeons didn't meet their ocd standards, ie did a shitty job
How are you so confident that the surgeons performed poorly? Why are you sure the judgment of BDD patients is impeccable?
>and since we're on that topic why don't we look at how shitty the remission rates are with psychotherapy
Two can play this game: because the psychologists did a shitty job. More seriously, you linked a study to OCD outcomes while you should have referenced a BDD one.
1/1

>>11384326

Traumatizing people isn't a cure.

>>11390945
>the fact that reassignment surgery is so effective. that is just altering morphology, ie body image
Do you honestly think that counts as evidence that GD is a form of BDD? You cannot think of alternative explanations for that observation? Maybe it is effective because it makes them feel more, get treated more and look like their desired gender, because they they want to switch gender?
>it isn't about the roles and whatnot as you claim. they want to be morphologically the sex they are focused on
This is not how transgenders feel about it. Just the wikipedia on GD will tell you that these people want to be treated like their desired gender and have the feelings of the other gender. Please bring up a study if you want to demonstrate otherwise.
>it's to do with adhd. which is the flip of ocd if you know the neurobiological roi underpinnings
What? your argument was about hyperfocus in GD and now it is about ADHD. I am not following you here.
2/2

>>11389843
What do you mean, I know the birthrates. I'm saying it's not really an issue since it's only really a certain sect of people causing it. Immigrants and conservatives breed like fucking rabbits

>>11376210
Because their hate clouds their minds.
This begs the question of why they hate transgender people but not body-dysmorphic people. I think it's because they have a deep-seated and repressed insecurity about their own gender identity and sexuality - am I man/woman/straight because this is what I want to be, or am I just accepting the role given to me by society because it's easier than challenging it? The repression of their own insecurities necessitates the othering of people who have explicitly taken steps to subvert the gender roles / sexuality mandated by the society and culture in which they live, because otherwise one would have to empathize with them and in doing so seriously consider the questions that they have been expending so much energy repressing.

>>11390945
>Now that is a stretch.
quite well modeled.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227315935_Population_Density_Key_Factor_in_Declining_Human_Fertility
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304387817300135
>Do you even have a clue of what fashion is or are you pretending to misunderstand my question directed to you so that you can easily evade it?
style of clothing.
>That is not even a biological reason but a physical reason.
that is biological, your head doesn't have the tissue structure to support it. biology is rooted in physics.
>No, gender roles have changed dramatically in Europe alone over the last 1000 years.
not really, fundamentally same thing. only bells and whistles changed. still bout penis in vagina making babies at core.
>Differences between cultures
bells and whistles.
>Why are you sure the judgment of BDD patients is impeccable?
because have a type of ocd, they demand perfection.
>psychologists did a shitty job.
tend to. because their tools are shit and don't get at root of issue.
>referenced a BDD one.
ocd related.
>Maybe it is effective because it makes them feel more
because that's the only way to feel is to be morphologically. can't feel like a woman when you're a blocky man in a dress.
>This is not how transgenders feel about it
well bdds don't feel that their perceived "defects" are just in their heads. why do you give one group this benefit but not the other? if you ever talk to someone with bdd they can tell you what they see wrong with their looks and how it deviates from what is considered attractive by people. so much like you say a transgender wants to be accepted for their desired gender bdds want to be perceived as pretty. aint gonna happen without surgery.
>and have the feelings of the other gender
blocky man dress. do you really believe gender is just about roles? that morphology plays no role?
>your argument was about hyperfocus in GD and now it is about ADHD
asked if i knew what hyperfocus was.

>>11385838
This is the most empathetic thing anyone can tell a tranny. It's like showing an alcoholic the bottle is hurting them.