/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11345291
why death has not been treated yet?

>>11345296
Most cancer is induced by smoking or other kind of chemicals. Why the fuck can't it be reversed? Immortality is obviously much harder than reversing the effect of fucking tobacco

>>11345291
Are you living under a rock?

>>11345300
> cancer is induced by smoking or other kind of chemicals
risk factors are not causes, cancers is cells going wrong after accumulated dna errors, those errors accumulate with age, tabacco or other external factors just add up errors quickly.

>>11345300
Big pharma is making too much off chemo drugs. Whats the incentive for the medica industry to cure its biggest money maker

>>11345291
Because there's different kinds of cancer, retard? It's not just a single disease.

>>11345339
Nice conspiracy, too bad this isn't /pol/.

>>11345376
Imagine shilling for big pharma because of how assblasted /pol/ makes you. What a sad individual you are

>>11345420
Imagine making claims you can't back up and getting butthurt when someone calls them conspiracies.

>>11345422
Look up the price of insulin and the cost of producing it then get back to me about what big pharmas true motivations are.

>>11345291
It has by PNC-27, GC-MAF, and arguably Thymosin a1, but non of you niggers care so why should anyone tell you folks that these exist?

>>11345339
This
Something like 20% of your genes are patented by various companies and if you have one of those genes that puts you at risk for cancer than you better hope that company has done some R&D on a cure. Most often he answer is "no" tho.


>>11345376
Yeah I remember them I thought politicians and CEOs who made millions were all good people because no one would ever let bad people get that powerful. High school is gonna change that for you too

>>11345431
Pseudoscience

>>11345463
Even your own body produces peptides hourly, retard.

>>11345291
I found the cure but they didn't let me reveal it to the public

>>11345429
I'm not listening to you poltard

>>11345291
because they have failed to identify the source of it, ie your posts.

>>11345420
I said this on a thread before but I repeat it here. A lot of the big pharma conspiracy, although plausible is not really sensible. Big insurance is WAY bigger than big pharma. Big insurance has all the incentive to develop cures for diseases and they can keep muh greedy big pharma at bay easily.

>>11345536
based schizoposting

>>11345291
Because cancer is a symptom of a poor metabolism, and poor metabolisms are caused by shit diets, and shit diets make a lot of money so the science is poisoned

>>11345338
So fix the errors with genome editing

>>11345690
Most insurance doesn't cover much of cancer and it's far from being a big cause of large
number of deaths

>>11345291
Find a way to stop your cell division from going haywire to prevent cancer.

>>11345344
This, I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding. "Cancer" is a family of related maladies caused by malignant and unchecked cell growth, it'd be like saying "When will we cure viruses?"

Curing cancer is like curing all infectious diseases.
We can come up with highly effective treatments for individual illnesses, but inventing an all encompassing cure is impossible, because cancer as a lot of people imagine it isn't a disease of it's own it's a name used to refer to a type of disease.
Scientists pretend that cancer can eventually be cured so they can farm grants from billionaires who want a spot in a history book without actually looking into what they are funding

>>11345857
how?

>>11345291
Because the protein folding problem hasn't been solved yet. I just started a thread on this: >>11345952

>>11345959
Genome editing

>>11345344
>>11345943
>>11345954

Stop posting on this board brainlets

1. anything that kills cancer cells also kills normal cells
2. the immune system can't kill them and sometimes can't tell them apart from normal cells
3. it's hard to remove the tumor entirely and sometimes tumors are in very sensitive areas
In my opinion if cancer will ever get cured it would be through gene editing of immune system/white cells/antibodies but you need to know a feature that is present in all cancer cells that these cells can tell i.e. tens of years of research and possibly no solution because each cancer might be unique from the others

>>11345986
>engineer proteins that fix and prevent mutations during replication
>you solved all cancers
Wow cancers are so different and impossible to fix wow XDD

>>11345291
>Why has cancer not been treated yet
It has. Cancer is not a single thing, it's a family of diseases. It is similar to asking "why has autoimmune disease not been treated yet?", and also note that "treating" is not curing.
>Most cancer is induced by smoking or other kind of chemicals.
Not true. It happens by itself and it has been happening since people exist. Look up ancient historical figures who died from cancer; it has always existed.

>>11345857
>>11345973
The errors happen in real time; they're not something that just is there waiting to happen. Every time a cell reproduces, several things can go wrong to make the copy not the same as the original. This happens every day inside your body, but there are 3 safety mechanisms that stop the process and kill the involved cells. These mechanisms also fail every single day, and cancer cells are born and killed by your immune system. Sometimes your immune system also fails to act fast enough. Literally everyone has cancer several times every single day, you just didn't know.

>>11346011
>It has. Cancer is not a single thing, it's a family of diseases.
Stopped reading there

>>11346018
Yes, so fix them every year

>>11346025
>Yes, so fix them a billion times every day.
I fixed that for you. Stay retarded.

>>11346030
Cancers don't develop in minutes you fucking retarded namefaggot get the fuck out of here

>>11345998
>engineer proteins that fix and prevent mutations during replication
gene editing is still in its baby phase and something like that is too advanced for our current abilities and knowledge. you can't just take the dna repair mechanisms of a single cell bacteria and just slap them on a human.
i think it would take 50 years if gene editing experimentation on humans was made legal and 75-100 years if experimenting on humans stays illegal and at least 1000 years if experimenting on animals was made illegal

>>11345291
It has. Immunotherapy exists, it's just mostly for the rich. Suffering is demanded by the rulers of our fucking mad society.

>>11345296
Demons fear immortality because they serve death.

>>11346064
It would take less than a decade if there wasn't so much push against it from MANY parties

It's a blanket term for unregulated cell division, a "cure" would prevent all cell division and kill you.

>>11346107
>immunotherapy kills you
Get educated.

>>11346072
hmmmmmmmmmmmm... i wonder what country with very very high global power and influence has the largest percentage of these parties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzNeg9D-EZ4

>>11346107
Please stop posting if you're retarded

>>11346113
Treat =/= cure, get educated yourself faggot.

>>11346122
Immunotherapy is literally a cure for cancer. It's just insanely expensive. Or it was. I don't know how much more widespread it is now than it was a few years ago, but most people still don't know it exists, so I'm assuming it's still being hoarded by the rich.

>>11346122
treat: remove tumor and hope it doesn't come back
cure: white cells are able to remove all cancer cells on their own

>>11346119
Monsanto was recently bought by Bayer, a German company. Just thought I'd point that out.

Cancer is a meme disease

>mostly kills old people
>doesn't even kill that many
>most cases are lung cancers which can be solved by reducing smoking

The entire field and industry is literally a meme. Everyone ITT who says "cancer is a lot of diseases!!! impossible to fix!" are just huge brainlets

>>11346149
anon ten million people die each year of cancer

>>11346149
for a third world american like you, cancer is not a problem but in other civilized places were private companies and the state don't profit on people's suffering, curing cancer would save a lot of money

>>11346019
Cancer is indeed a family of disease and, big surprise, some of them are actually curable with chemotherapy. Have you aver read about Hodgkin Lymphoma? What about seminoma and other germinal tumors? They can be completely cured with chemotherapy. If you think that a lymphoma is the same as breast cancer you should educate yourself a bit better. Maybe trying an actual oncology book instead of 4chan

>>11345291
Already found a cure. You can thank me later. Good luck.

>>11346173
Most of whom are retired people whose death benefits the economy

>>11345376
Try working for a health insurance company, retard!

>>11345339
>Chemo drugs
>Generica exist
>Every startup can produce them
>Unspecific as fuck
>Will be used for maybe 5 years before patient is either cured or dead

>Monoclonal Antibodies targeting specific receptors or even combinations of receptors in patient
>Can only be made by company with patent
>Expensive as fuck because highly specific
>Must be taken the rest of the patients life which can be 40-60 years of guarannteed income

Yeah haha, nobody is working on personalized medicine at all anon, it's all chemo, you got it

>>11345998
That still leaves DNA damage through UV light or ROS for example which wouldn't get detected by the replication machinery :^)
Back to the drawingboard brainlet

>>11346131
my grandmother is going to get immunotherapy soon from public health care

>>11347686
It solves >90% of them retard

pharma mafia.

>>11345291

Whole foods plant based diet prevents and reverses many cancers and tumors

>>11347809
lol no

>>11347896
k tard

>>11345291

>>11347996
>there will never be a cure for cancer
Stopped reading there, fuck off pharma shill

>>11347807
For cancer? In America? The fact that you said "public healthcare" makes me think this is in another country.

>>11348315
I know for a fact that there are several monoclonal antibodies that are used for certain types of intestinal cancer and some types of leucemia right now which you get through public healthcare in germany

>>11346019
It doesn’t matter how much you don’t like it, it’s a fact. Any number of mutations could potentially cause cells to start growing incorrectly. There is no one cause.

>>11348325
ok buddy retard

>>11348319
Figured. Insurance covers very little immunotherapy in America. I remember seeing a healthcare plan through my work that covered like $1000 of it.

>>11348325
There's a cure for cancer now, retard. We're discussing it in this very thread. Pay attention.

>>11346194
Euros love like American lower class urbanites. You can’t even afford air conditioning. You’re poor because almost all the money you make is stolen by the state.

>>11348335
Really? Because nobody’s bothered to name it ITT. What’s it called?

>>11348363
>He thinks the cure for cancer has a patented name so the goy can look it up at any time
lol
how naive are you

>>11348392
Tick tock little zoomer, go ahead and post proof.

>>11348363
IMMUNOTHERAPY. We've named it multiple times. You're an idiot who refused to read and instead wants to talk.

>>11348394
I.
Already.
Have.
A CURE.
YOU.
ABSOLUTE.
BRAINLETS.

>>11348840
What is it? Some derp herp botanical garden "natural" bullshit?

>>11348849
No actually, while you guys were busy having a panic attack I was digging into WESTERN MEDICINE for fucking MONTHS. Empirical data, etc etc. You know what. I am starting to regret it. Maybe I'll just let it sink to the bottom of some patent office somewhere and fuck off to the mountains. >:(

>>11348663
t. literal inbred

>>11345690
>implying insurance will pay for your expensive ass cancer treatment
nope. it's easier for them to pay lawyers to avoid responsibility than influence the scientific landscape

>>11349005
This is correct and quite well-known: private insurances always recuse themselves in front of expensive chronic or almost-chronic care charges no matter how much you've been paying them until then.

>>11345291
According to German New Science, cancer is the bodies natural way of dealing with trauma (esp. emotional trauma). Once the trauma has passed the body disintegrates the cancer. Cancer therapies like kemo, kick start the trauma process creating more cancers and the body has to start again healing itself, from a worse position than it was before. Bottomline, there's no such thing as cancer, as you know it.

>>11349507
By New Science you mean Pseudoscience?

>>11350030
Shut up, racist. The asian immigrants are doing legitimate cutting edge research!

>>11345338
It's DNA damage, it's dna folding damage. The genetics themselves are fine.

>>11348909
I'm able to read.

>>11350167
Obviously not, otherwise you'd know that there hasn't been a single successful immuno-based treatment of a human because there's always an auto-immune complication going on that wasn't observed in the murine model.

>>11350169
This is an outright lie and I'm not sure why you're pushing it.

>>11350173
OK inbred

>>11350177
So you work for like a chemotherapy company or something?

>>11350182
I work in immuno, retard.

>>11345291
Because you touch yourself at night.

Finding cure for cancer is like finding a cure for fractures.

>>11350186
Clearly, you don't.

>>11350397
In other words, both make the for-profit medical industry very angry because extending suffering is more profitable than fixing medical issues which modern medicine almost never does.

>>11346033
>retarded namefag
newfag

>>11345339
>>11345291
>Whats the incentive for the medica industry to cure its biggest money maker
Whichever pharma company patents a cure for cancer will become the most profitable company in human history. The only way the "arrangement conspiracy" makes sense is if all the major pharma companies independently developed cures for cancer within months or weeks of each other, became aware of their competitors' breakthroughs and then conspired to withhold or destroy their findings in order to protect their profits as well as join in efforts to cripple or buy out small competitors and start-ups. This conspiracy is brought up again and again because it does make sense from an purely economic or game-theory approach but the likelihood that this actually occurred is very low because we know that technological breakthroughs don't usually occur in clusters like that.

>>11352416
This is a lie. But immunotherapy is incredibly expensive. It's intentionally suppressed, however, as a specialty cure only for the rich for the most part.

>>11346069
Based schizo-post

>>11352455
It has nothing to do with schizophrenia. It's simple truth. If you serve death, the concept of eternal life is disgusting to you.

>>11352438
>immunotherapy is incredibly expensive. It's intentionally suppressed, however, as a specialty cure only for the rich for the most part.
I'd have to do some quick research on that, not saying you are wrong. If this therapy does cure cancer reliably it's only a matter of time before it becomes ubiquitous. Selling a cheap product to many people is usually more profitable than selling an expensive product to few people. And by cheap I mean just cheap enough so it becomes an alternative to chemo therapy or other common methods.
This would be in the elites' best interest also by the way, the future value you can extract from a wagie in his 50s by curing his cancer is most probably greater than the cost of the therapy, especially in countries with high median GDP per capita.

>>11352460
Not that guy, but isn't the common purpose of "demons" to either cause suffering or tempt mortals to sin? Not just in Christian mythology, but cross-culturally? They don't serve death, they serve evil.

>>11352468
Fuck jewish religion. The original word daemon simply is the Greek for spirit. What we are now discussing is what the Greeks called cacodemons. Evil spirits. Demons serve death and chaos. Their goal is the eradication of existence, though often they aren't aware of this.

>>11352505
*daimon would be the original Greek spelling

>>11352462
>I'd have to do some quick research on that, not saying you are wrong. If this therapy does cure cancer reliably it's only a matter of time before it becomes ubiquitous.
Ah, the neolib brain attempting to process information. The same is claimed of all things, yet helicopters aren't ubiquitous. Neither are rockets. Just because something should be widespread, doesn't mean capitalism will reward it being so.

>>11352512
>but what about helicopters and rockets
Come on anon, you can do better than moving the goalpost. Obviously vehicles have high production costs. Pharmaceuticals are expensive to develop, but they scale incredibly well. Once you have the formula, you can make huge quantities, cheaply and quickly and then set the price relative to local spending power. That's why Insulin can cost hundreds of dollars on one side of a border, and a few cents on the other.

>>11352649
There is no moving of goalposts. The claim that "if something is desirable, surely capitalism will make it widespread" is worse than a mistake, it is a LIE.

>>11352649
>That's why Insulin can cost hundreds of dollars on one side of a border, and a few cents on the other.
That would be because drug makers have too much power in government.

>>11352661
But I never claimed that. If you need the argument condensed to syllogistic form, here you go: "If high proliferation of a product yields favorable revenue and profit, the patent owner will attempt proliferation". Of course it's possible that the decision makers are acting against their company's (and their own monetary) interest, it's just very unlikely when you take the competitive nature of the market and society in general into account.

>>11352664
Yes, sure. They set the price relative to local spending power to the extent that local governements will conceide, deliberated through negotiation, lobying, bribes and other tactics.

>>11352684
>But I never claimed that
Perhaps you're just too stupid to know you're mouthing neolib propaganda. Wouldn't surprise me. It's fucking everywhere now and zoomers are far too stupid to actually examine anything they pick up off the ground of the internet before they put it in their mouths.

>competitive nature of the market
There is no competitive nature to markets. Every single claim of capitalists is a lie. All of them.

>>11351300
That's one way to draft your personal opinion onto someone else's post.

We haven't found cure for fractures, because they are caused by external damage. Until we have the tech to target individual cells, there will be no universal cure for cancer, just like there is no universal cure for mechanically separated pieces of bone.

My grandad cut off a few of his finger in an accident. I can assure you, that without modern medicine he would have died. Have a look at picture of what is inside of an ambulance, and see if "alternative medicine" of your choice can cover that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

>>11353054
So if someone uses chemotherapy or immunotherapy and it kills their cancer and they're clean, that's not a cure, how? Cancer is not fractures. I have no idea what your bizarre fucking argument is except that you want to continue to believe cancer can't be cured for some reason?

>>11353159
Chemo is much of a cure for cancer as amputation is a cure for broken bones.

Chemo kills you. It just so happens to kill cancer cells at slightly faster rate than your healthy cells.

We haven't found a cure for cancer till we can reliably treat all types of cancer. There are still some where survival rate is <.5% And overall survival rate is only about 70%.

You wouldn't say that antibiotics are a "cure" for infections, if they only worked 70% of the time.

Source: My dad died of lung cancer. He was a non smoker. That kind that has <.5% survival rate. He was young, so his treatment lasted for 2 years.

>>11353487
>Chemo is much of a cure for cancer as amputation is a cure for broken bones.
ok retard

>>11353720
> ok retard
What a well constructed and thought-provoking counter argument.

>>11353736
Not him, but you are a retard.