/sci/ - Science & Math

More proof of Transhumanism's correctness.

*reads text*

What complete, utter bullshit.

>>1133037

>What complete, utter bullshit.

Are you serious?

posting in a troll thread

>>1133099

>posting in a truth thread

>>1133088

Yes, I am really.

Literacy did not cripple memory. We still have the same memories. It's just that there is so much more to remember that we *think* we have gotten stupider.

Fire did not weaken the fire in Man. Man uses chemical fire to leverage his internal fire.

Shoes do not injure feet. Goathead thorns, sharp rocks, etc, however, do.

Vaccines do not exteriorize (what a fucked up word) the immune system. They leverage the immune system.

This argument is bullshit. It denigrates anything that raises Man up from being a pure animal. The author can choke on my cock.

>>1133159

>It's just that there is so much more to remember
That's funny. Didn't the ancients memorize giant epic poems?

>Shoes do not injure feet.
People were once able to walk around without shoes on. We can't do that anymore. That's not a good thing.

>They leverage the immune system.
Leverage the immune system? Just as a pair of crutches leverages your arms?

>>1133178
Humans are living healthier and longer lives than they were 2000 years ago. Highschool-fag thinks he is smart, but in reality he is just making shit up so he can get a B- on that essay.
/thread

>>1133201

>living healthier
Obesity sure is healthy.

>>1133178
We could memorize epic poems if we didn't have tons of OTHER shit to memorize/deal with.

>>1133201

I'd like to see you arm-wrestle a viking.

>>1133206
>implying the majority of the people are obese
>implying that people do not live longer lives now than they did 2000 years ago

>>1133206
polio and smallpox sure are healthy

>>1133214
If we got the arm wrestling champion of our time and the arm wrestling champion viking. The arm wrestling champion of our time would win because he has had a better diet and greater medical treatment over his entire lifetime. Enjoy your idealized visions of the world before.

>>1133216

People lived just as long thousands of years ago.
Infant death rates deflate the averages.

Partially true, but partially false too. Man by his intellect has led himself down a path towards a weaker body. But the body reaches its limits before the intellect. To push man further, to new limits requires that we seek those through the intellect. So yes, let's not forget about the things we lose, or the triumphs of the human body, the joys of simplicity, but let's also not resign ourselves to stagnation. That we have anything to live for, to move forward to means leaving things behind.

>>1133207

>if we didn't have tons of OTHER shit to memorize
What's the longest text you know by heart?

>>1133228
people were lucky to get to 40. l2history

>>1133206
Yeah, fuck obesity! I'd rather die of dysentery/a flu at 30!

>>1133235
Of course but if they made it past 10 they were half way there.

>>1133159
You've completely misinterpreted the post and taken much of it literally when it was clearly metaphoric in nature.

The idea is that the more we rely on technology to manipulate and interact with the environment, the less we allow for our mind and body to adapt to our surroundings. Our "primeval integrity" suffers; if you were thrown in a forest tomorrow, with nothing, would you survive? No, you do not know how to, and your body is likely not in the proper shape for any kind of survival.

Of course, whether this is a bad thing or not is debatable. But what OP's pic suggests is clearly correct and, in my opinion, rather obvious, but very well put.

>>1133227

>greater medical treatment
You mean steroids?

Also

People are getting weaker all the time.
My father is stronger than I ever was, and his father was stronger than either of us. The same can be said for most people.

>>1133235

>lucky to get to 40
Care to provide a source for this wild claim?

>>1133251
You need to work out more then. There is no scientific reason why you should be weaker then your father, unless you are retarded. Which is probably the case so nevermind.

The human race has risen to any challenges it has faced and bested them, we have adapted to nearly every environment. The challenges of the past were defeated, so now we have new challenges. We don't need strong feet cause we have shoes to defeat our old enemies the thorns, the rocks, and the underbrush. Why should we lament this fact?

16 year-olds used to go to war.

How would our current crop of 16 year-olds stack up to the teens from 100 years ago I wonder?

A recent scientific study suggested that you should probably refrain from posting and feeding the trolls.

>>1133297
Pretty well, you'd be surprised what basic training can do, especially when you have predator drones to back you up.

>>1133297
They would do better if they were trained to be warriors. Better diet their entire life.

Oh, come on.

>>1133288
>We don't need strong feet cause we have shoes

The whole thing is profoundly dehumanizing. Don't you see that?

Sure is Luddites here

>>1133178

>That's funny. Didn't the ancients memorize giant epic poems?

Yes. And you had that *one guy* in your tribe that knew the whole poem and that's *all* he knew to any great depth, and he passed it on to his apprentice.

How many of those "epic poems" do you think that people came up with because the guys who knew them simply died of disease or being whacked over the head by a competing tribe?

> People were once able to walk around without shoes on.

Even the fucking Ice Man had moccasins stuffed with grass. Hurr. Your fucking hero in that text would rather that you and I would be better off exposed to the fucking elements, naked, and cold. Fuck you. I'm killing something for its skin and I'm starting a fire.

> Leverage the immune system? Just as a pair of crutches leverages your arms?

Oh cool, argument by non-sequitur. Stupid fuck.

Who is this fucking idiot? Tell me so I can know who to avoid on the bookshelf.

>>1133316
Dehumanizing? no I don't see shoes as dehumanizing, sure alienation in the industrial and postindustrial age. Maybe, but shoes no. Man, selling his productive aspect as interchangeable man-hours at minimum wage for a product he neither sees to completion nor ever controls, sure that's dehumanizing. Shoes, no.

tl;dr: Marx yes, /sci/tard troll no

>>1133251
Weak ass faggot detected. I bet I could kick your grandpas ass in his heyday. My father is not stronger than me, I know that much.

>>1133316
>implying creating technology to suit our environment is not human when the human race has been doing it ever since its existence.
"Neanderthals had tools guiz. HOW DE-NEANDERTHALING TO THEM"

>>1133327

Edit:

How many of those "epic poems" do you think that people came up with *disappeared* because the guys who knew them simply died of disease or being whacked over the head by a competing tribe?

>>1133342

You misunderstand the way oral traditions work.

indeed the only truly dehumanizing thing would be the rejection of the human intellect that enables us to create and chose to use these technological advancements

>>1133326

>Implying the Luddite were wrong

>>1133365

You misunderstand how libraries work.

This is such bullshit. Humans are physically stronger than they have ever been; our nutrition, medicine, drugs, etc are unparalleled in history. We are far taller than our ancestors, and in much better health.

Except for Americans.

>>1133368
intelligent anon is intelligent

>>1133384
And the British

>>1133368

>human intellect
The intellect is non-discursive bro.

The ratiocinating faculty is to blame for technological advances, not the intellective faculty.

>>1133384

>EVERYTHING IS GETTING BETTER ALL THE TIME

A modern myth.

>>1133393
>>1133393

i have no idea what you are talking about and therefore fit in perfectly with your world view

>>1133368
I agree with this anon; fuck the Luddites, they can go gnaw on rats in a cave. I'm HUMAN, and that means I BEND MY ENVIRONMENT TO MY WILL. Once it serves me, I've become less human? Bullshit. There are always new frontiers to conquer.

Unless you're a lazy fatass who thinks he's smart, like the the author of OP's bullshit.

>>1133407

>I BEND MY ENVIRONMENT TO MY WILL
And one day it will bend back. Nature should not be viewed as an enemy. Such a thing should go without saying. Alas, we live in dark times.

By definition anything a human does is humanizing. A human can not make an action that is dehumanizing.

>>1133402
Give me a counterexample.

Besides, if I walked and climbed trees without shoes for a few months, I'd get those awesome feet that OP thinks have gone the way of the dinosaur.

>>1133384

> We are far taller than our ancestors, and in much better health.

No shit.

I can go into many of the old houses off of Benefit Street in Providence RI and in Newport RI near the harbor (the old town) and have to duck in some doorways. And you're talking only 250 to 200 years ago for these. The house I grew up in, I could touch my head to the top of a doorway (1870 house) by standing on my toes. I could whack my head if I wasn't careful going down the back stairs.

>Besides, if I walked and climbed trees without shoes for a few months, I'd get those awesome feet that OP thinks have gone the way of the dinosaur.


can vouch for this, 100% true

>>1133427

>Give me a counterexample.
A counter example of what?

>>1133420

its not an enemy, its not a friend, its simply there, something people dont seem to understand

>>1133420
Shut the fuck up, envirofag.

Bending the environment to my will doesn't mean what I want has to be short-sighted and self-destructive. I'll take care of the environment. Why? Because I need it.

I don't view nature as an "enemy". Nature is an object, perhaps a canvas or piece of clay. It is what it is, but what is WILL be is up to us. Nature's not your friend either. It is entirely indifferent. So I'll make it do what I want. It's not like Nature cares.

>>1133420
> Nature should not be viewed as an enemy

Nature is red in tooth and claw. Have any doubt about this? Go outside during mosquito season naked.

Nature will kill your ass dead and leave your dessicated bones to bleach in the sun.

Sort of relevant?

>>1133436
>>1133436
You said that modern health and nutrition advances making us stronger than our ancestors is a myth. I called bullshit. Your turn I guess, but I don't really care anyway.

How about this for a thesis:
EVERYTHING IS A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD, SO FUCK IT WE ACCEPT RISK EITHER STAYING BEHIND OR MOVING FORWARD, SO DO WHAT YOU LIKE BEST

>>1133451
>>1133451
>>1133451
WIN
fucking luddites

>>1133424
>a human cannot make an action that is dehumanizing

Oh? How about human trafficking or slavery? Treating a person as commodity is, by definition not treating them as human, ie dehumanizing. You are wrong. Thanks for shitting up this thread though.

>>1133250
Yes, I would, because i always carry a survival kit with water purifying chemicals, mono filament line, fishing hook, matches, etc.

lolno this is bullshit. Hew author, I'll throw you in a shit pile to dump manure all over you fields, just like people lived 2000 years ago. I bet you'll live a hugely healthy and long life.

What, life expectancy has gone up 60 years? NO WAY. What, most people (like me) have callused feet/easily get callused feet anyways and only wear shoes for convenience? NO WAY. What, technology is the reason you're writing this paper instead of dead from smallpox/malaria/polio/diphtheria/flu/infection of a broken limb?

Anything that blames technology is written by philosophers who are to busy ruminating on life to realize that they contribute nothing to society.

>>1133472
The legitimacy of that position is highly dependent on what you are talking about when you say "staying behind". For example, if someone wants to "stay behind" by shitting in the streets or throwing their garbage wherever, that is a major health issue that affects whole communities. On certain things, based on the fact that we know about the nature of many diseases, there is no "staying behind". It's either move forward with us or get hounded for being a backwards asshole.

>>1133250

>Our "primeval integrity" suffers;

No, it doesn't. We simply use it in different ways. You're just too stupid to realize it.

Nice mental masturbation though. You got a fucking reference for that quote in the head message or are you just a faggot?

Who cares if technology dehumanizes us anyway? Why is being human a good thing? I'm happy with what I've got, but if science offers me the chance to become a cyborg, I'll take it. Look at the Daleks. They are weak pathetic creatures with an insanely powerful exterior. Daleks are the sum of their parts; intelligent but physically weak, so they built a powerful technological exoskeleton. I personally would have chosen a different body, but hey, it works. Being human is irrelevant, technology is apart of us and I see this as a good thing.

>>1133517
Another way to put it is that we are constantly redefining what it means to be human. We are evolving. Not much biologically, but massively in culture and technology.

>>1133159
You are wrong. OP's post is partially true. Chimps have been shown to have much better locational memory than humans, probably because humans can rely on words and reading skills for navigation.

Our western society makes no qualms about letting EVERY person live. Pro lifers think even babies diagnosed with anencephaly should be born. All industrialized nations (as well as many unindustrialized ones) are going against natural selection.

>>1133508
There is plenty of land though, a lot more than most people give there credit for being, and plenty of societies in plenty of states of technological capability. No one says you have to live in some Metropolitan area.

>>1133517

>Who cares if technology dehumanizes us anyway?

It doesn't dehumanize us, because reliance on technology is what helps define us as humans.

Otherwise you just have people running around naked using no tools whatsoever, not even rocks.

The OP's unsourced text is nothing but wanking.

>>1133508

>either move forward with us or get hounded for being a backwards asshole

PROGRESS is a delusion

>this thread

>>1133535
We are not going against natural selection, we are just supplementing the fitness of the species. Its not like most of those cases of anencephaly will result in another generation.

>>1133535
>anencephaly
whoa.

>You got a fucking reference for that quote

http://religioperennis.org/documents/blacks/automobile.pdf

People believe things are always getting better because it makes them feel good about themselves.

It's sort of like a comfort blanket or something.

>>1133548
haha, oh wow. Okay, go live in a cave then, with animal skins for clothes. Apparently, the rest of us aren't living any better than we were 40,000 years ago.

>>1133540
>Reliance on technology is what helps define us as humans.
Be sure that there are many traits that define humanity and we existed long before we relied on tools according to the accepted annals of natural history.

I find the concept of a 'dehumanizing' technology entirely strange. It's as useless of an idea as ontological skepticism; Pure wankery.

>>1133568

>first quote in the paper is from Revelations

>my face

>>1133535
Chimps are not primitive man, they're a separate descendant of a common ancestor quite a ways back. They're not at all relevant to a discussion of the effects of things like "writing" on man's ability to remember things. Or anything else about how man's technology rich environment shapes him.

I oppose transhumanism, and I oppose technology that puts man in the place of a beast of burden performing menial tasks. I don't oppose technology in general. Ideally technology would allow man to live an active life style and be a creative force, buidling, constructing, thinking, sciencing or contemplating his own navel, while the tasks of production for necessities sake could be automated. That's the damn techno-utopia. Not uploading our minds to the internet or cheating death with robot bodies. None of those things sounds like any fun at all.

>>1133606

Did cavemen have existential angst and all manner of modern malaises?

>>1133612

Take it easy bro.
It's the best book of the bible.

>>1132985
Automatic semester "F"

>>1133621
Angst and malaise are luxuries, they are not to be dreaded and avoided but relished and enjoyed as symbols of the luxury we have.

I can't wait till we become "grays." It'll mean that we've advanced enough that we are no longer dependent on planets to survive.

Plus, once we get to the point of mechanizing our bodies, our physical states won't matter.

So has anyone pointed out how this is being posted on a computer?

I mean, that's a pretty big thing, isn't it?

>>1133625
Have you ever read Judges:
But Jael, Heber's wife, picked up a tent peg and a hammer and went quietly to him while he lay fast asleep, exhausted. She drove the peg through his temple into the ground, and he died.

They just don't base religions on good stories anymore.

>>1133621
Disregarding that not everyone suffers from these (religiousfags don't really have to deal with existential feelings which is why they have religion), how do you know cavemen didn't feel things like that? They didn't have much of a culture to speak of so we don't know much about the inner workings of their minds.

>>1133627

Things like depression are to be cherished?

>>1133651
Would you rather we work on the land until we don't think at all? Are you suggesting that we forget about philosophy completely?

>>1133664

>Would you rather we work on the land until we don't think at all?
For most of us, yes.

>Are you suggesting that we forget about philosophy completely?
What you call philosophy isn't philosophy.

>>1133651
Not true depression no, but the existential malaise sure. True depression is to be treated with technology, like antidepressants.

>Primeval integrity
If it were not primeval for man to create and use tools he would not have done so before he discovered painting, religion and language. There's no fruitful thought in the OP, just poetic words.

>>1133010

Only true statement in this thread.

People need to stop posting text as images. Especially text that is asinine.

>>1133672
So physical problems like calloused feet are preferable to existential problems? I'm not sure if you really want to be human then. To me humans are defined by their ability to think about abstract concepts. A situation like Candide, where they work for the rest of their lives so they aren't burdened by philosophy, well, I wouldn't consider that human at all. Humans naturally want to exceed their animal relatives.

OP is a middle class male that has no real threats going on in his life other than whether or not there will be a storm near his house that happens to cut off his internet and tv thus rendering his social life useless.

>>1133715

>So physical problems like calloused feet are preferable to existential problems? I
Physical problems are always preferable to mental problems.

>To me humans are defined by their ability to think about abstract concepts.
I'm all for philosophy. As long as it's not the degenerate self-doubting modern kind.

>>1133731
All problems are mental

>>1133749
Yeah, saying physical and mental problems are separate kind of implies that there is an object 'perfect' physical form and that's dangerous territory.

Luddites GTFO of the internets and go back in to the cave since it's so nice eating moss from the walls and ticks from each others hair.

>>1133730
Even if he was, so?

Man is nothing more than his brain. His body is the simplest of his tools, just waiting to be replaced by greater one.

>>1133798
So he sees hardship as life affirming because, he has no hardship and no life. Which is not a good argument for the truth of the matter.

>>1132985

good stuff

I found this thread amusing.

>>1133799
> implying the brain is not part of the body