/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11328778
kino

>>11328778
Why is the delta the 'default' symbol for space stuff? Where did it come from?

post yfw spacex beats nasa to the moon

>>11328801
I guess is that chevrons represent flight and motion which was a nice fit for aerospace agencies, and then very popular things like NASA and Star Trek reinforced the meme.

>>11328803
IF SpaceX beats NASA to the moon. But it would be pretty funny if it happened.

>>11328801
https://en dot wikipedia dot org/wiki/NASA_insignia

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1220874381318086657
It's time to bomb Boeing

>>11328829

>>11328830
>The Gateway to Mars shall not be required for the conduct of human lunar landing missions.
Wait, this "Gateway" is LOPG? I thought it was a crucial part of Artemis?

>>11328829
god damn, eric throwing some major shade

>>11328837
It is if you don’t wanna do ‘flags and footprints’, which NASA don’t.

>>11328861
But then NASA is doing a version of the manned lunar missions without LOPG? So they want to do a "flags and footprints" mission?

>>11328819
>>11328809
Thanks

>>11328863
>So they want to do a "flags and footprints" mission?

Some Representatives from Congress do, NASA don’t, they want sustainability.

>>11328868
Dammit, they better not cancel the mission to "redefine it" again.

This new HA is Zubrins and those favoring Moon Direct Monkey's Paw. Rail against Gateway and win but then lose Lunar base.

>>11328881
>Rail against Gateway and win but then lose Lunar base.
Why not have a lunar base and no gateway?

>>11328885
That was Moon Direct. This bill explicitly states a Lunar Outpost is a non-critical path and must request separate funding.

>>11328881
Loss of lunar base, commercial partners, Boeing gets funding for 2 SLS per year for the next 13 years

>>11328829
>>11328830
So let me get this straight, Artemis is still on, LOPG is still on, "we'll get to Mars eventually... someday... maybe" is still on, but NASA is given this side project to just send people to the moon to do Apollo 2.0?

>>11328778
>>11328801

>>11328931
The "side project" that eats up 90% of the budget and goes straight to the belly of Boeing.

>>11328939
>that eats up 90% of the budget
Source?

>>11328778
Nice fake logo OP

>>11328919
Well they're throwing commercial space a bone by allowing the possibility of Europa Clipper to fly on something else than SLS.

>>11328961
More like scraps. 1 mission worth $100M-$150M Falcon Heavy.

>wants to kill lunar ambitions for a flag and footprints campaign that will set us back 50 years
fuck boeing. they seriously want us to stay on this rock forever.

They better not cancel Artemis. Sure, it's a flawed program, but it's better than nothing, or worse a reset of progress at NASA again.

>>11329020
You should have listed to my warnings. Would have saved you the anguish thats coming.

>>11329020

Reset is best option. Nothing isn't an option at all.

>>11329030
No it's not, because that's a recurring problem with NASA. An ambitious project starts, gains some political momentum, political winds shift, the project gets cancelled, replaced by a new project, and the cycle repeats. If Artemis gets cancelled, then it shows that NASA still has that problem and it reinforces the possibility that NASA can't/won't fix it. Which wastes resources and talent. Having nothing would be preferable over that, because then the resources wouldn't be wasted so disappointingly.

>>11328829
>>11328830
>>11329020
Eternal reminder that SLS/Artemis has a 51% success chance. It was talked about in a hearing called "Hearing: Developing Core Capabilities for Deep Space Exploration"
https://youtu.be/BnFj67C0G6I?t=1h11m44s

During this hearing it was revealed that Mr. Doug Cooke, Former Associate Administrator, Exploration Systems, National Aeronautics and Space Administration wrote an article called 'getting back to the moon requires speed and simplicity' Cooke states:
1. NASA is breaking the lander/gateway deliberately into multiple pieces to feed contractors who have built a deliberately under-preforming rocket so they can sell their own for commercial launches OR force multiple SLS constructions
2. NASA's current approach requires on average 8 launches (combining both SLS and commercial) VS a single Apollo launch for moon landing including construction launches of the gateway/lander
3. NASA's approach has 51% chance for an overall mission success. Not taking into account the launch vehicle maturity risk

I think Gateway will survive. NASA has been working hard for years to get lots of partners involved in it. It's unkillable at this point.

>>11328829
>January 23, 2020
>Eric Berger: "Gateway baaaaaaaaaaaad"

>January 24, 2020
>Eric Berger: "Gateway gooooooooooood"

>>11329076
gateway is bad but it's the lesser of two evils

>>11329096
This. It's at least something that can last and maybe be useful over just repeating Apollo. IIRC NASA specifically designed gateway to be used as a basis for a Mars transit vehicle.

>>11329116
Not just Mars, but any mission into deep space. The Gateway would be the homeport of deep space vessels.

>>11329123
>The Gateway would be the homeport of deep space vessels.
That would be incredibly pointless unless it were a propellant depot. What I meant was using gateway as the vessel.

>>11329131
Gateway ain't flying anywhere beyond the Moon.

>>11329135
Not quite in it's current iteration, but I remember that it was going to be set up for that with the PPU being the propulsion unit to go to Mars. Maybe I'm wrong idk.

>>11329076
Mars Direct > Lunar Colony/Gateway > Apollo 2.0

>>11328829
>no gateway

wtf I love Boeing now.

>>11328778
>soace force
I hate this name so much.
So fucking much.
Sounds like some kids show bullshit.

At the very least, Space Corps, (as it used to be), wouldve been acceptable. But Space Force?? Fucking buzz lightyear sounding retardation. Gimme a break.

>>11329157
It's not that there's no gateway. It's that there's no gateway and no space infrastructure. Gateway is better than only leaving some more flags and footprints on the moon.

>>11329137
The ion thrusters that will propel the PPE are more powerful than any other, but their still no where near powerful enough for interplanetary voyages (no such electric propulsion system currently exists) and at the end of the day PPE is still just an upgraded commercial satellite bus, it lacks the fuel capacity for such manoeuvres.

>>11329158
NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T MAKE SPACE FUN

>>11329158
I'm still an advocate for Orbital Guard.

>>11329042

bogus meme.

>>11329158
>I hate this name so much
Fine, you're not allowed in the Space Force anyway fag.

>>11328946
The logo for the Air Force Space Command (1982–2019) until it got rolled into this Space Force tomfoolery. Come at me.

>>11329193
they're going to be expanding past orbit during the course of their existence
its like keeping the name US Army Air Force, even when the air force has expanded to independence

>>11329042

the problem isnt that something gets cancelled by each admin. the problem is that is being painted as the problem. the reality is this:

shit rhetoric over shit is undertaken by an admin.
switchovers are only times scrutiny or switching tracks to something better has a slight chance of happening.

artemis is garbage with slow mediocre nearly worthless payout, just like the last thing, and the last. it is occupying space a better program can make hay in.

perhaps you are someone who bought into the hue and cry over constellation being cancelled. again, cancellation was good, the hue and cry is wrongheaded and misleading.

>>11329229
So you're saying that the problem is that NASA isn't allowed to scrutinize missions and be flexible with them?

>>11329042

"things being cancelled is terrible" - people whose ox would be gored if their current pet fanboy thing currently the program gets cancelled.

>>11329244
English please

>>11329244
I don't have any special attachment to Artemis. I just want NASA to be able to focus on a mission with a clear goal and complete it.

>>11329221
>Air Force Space Command
Sounds cooler and more dignified than Space Force, we never should have changed it, but oh Trump's ego

>>11329242

i wouldnt phrase in that way at all, just leads into the blame congress not nasa nasa's hands are tied bullshit.

artemis isnt good. its a mirage. "I don't want the mirage cancelled." the mirage getting cancelled gets us closer to the thing(which may not be fully grasped) that the mirage is trying to fool you it is.

>>11329223
But pretty much everything in space is on an orbit, unless it's on another body.

>>11329248

I'm not targetting you. You are a receptacle for copious bullshit pumped out by reams of fanboys that you are exposed to and get filtered into your thought model and gets lodged in there as "the facts of this topic".

Like this: "I just want NASA to be able to focus on a mission with a clear goal and complete it."

The idea that this is important is received false wisdom.

What if that goal is completely pointless and obstructs the reality goal.

>>11329255
>another body
and that's where the space force will eventually wind up going in a few decades
do people really think that the existing powers of the world are just going to ignore space, and let newcomers steal the spotlight?
SpaceX will not have the only colony on mars, there will be others following it shortly after, all so their patron nation can say they have permanent boots on another world

>>11329267

I mean, think about leadership qualities. Which of the following would be a good quality of a leader of a Fortune 500 company:

A: We must stick to whatever course was charted five years ago and never stray and never examine the issue with that as a possibility in mine.

B: We must continually examine what is the best course for us at this time and be willing to undertake it.

Like, "headstrong into the stupid, always" is dumb in general.

>>11329253
Then what you think is the problem with NASA exactly? Sorry, but your previous post was hard for me to decipher.

>>11329184
It's a matter of dignity, like >>11329250 said. What a joke. When other nations start rolling out their division names, America will be the butt of every joke.
>>11329193
Orbital Guard takes the cake, but yeah, eventually were going to need a name that designates space travel other than just in-orbit.

>>11329274
>SpaceX will not have the only colony on mars, there will be others following it shortly after, all so their patron nation can say they have permanent boots on another world
>ywn work as a blue-collar roadbuilder connecting colonies with a highway system
Put me in coach, I'm ready

>>11329267
>What if that goal is completely pointless and obstructs the reality goal.
I guess you have a point. I'd feel that NASA sticking to a plan, even a less than ideal one, would be a sign that they have unified vision and drive.

>>11329290
>>11329274
>>11329255
Fine then. Space Guard.

>>11329297
Meant to include you >>11329223 too.

Is there a reason why we haven't aggressively pursued nuclear propulsion in space yet?

>>11329302
Mainly both the lack of a serious need, and fears of accidentally spreading fissile material in space. You think kessler syndrome is bad? Try nuclear kessler syndrome.

>>11329302
JFK being a pussy when the military pitched him Orion, then the Outer Space Treaty happened.
>>11329306
Nut up and launch a hundred orbital battleships already, what are you gay

>>11329221
So they took a real logo and made it look more like Star Trek.

>>11329306
>>11329308
Did we fuck up by not seriously pursuing it? I know that we're still researching it but I always feel like we should've been on Mars and shit by now.

>>11329321
>Did we fuck up by not seriously pursuing it?
Not really since the need for it wasn't there. We did fuck up by not having that need.

>>11329321
No, the amount of bomblets required is retard tier and would be phenomenally expensive. Not to mention you won't be allowed to get to orbit with it anyway which is the main barrier.

>>11329325
>We did fuck up by not having that need.
What "need" would that be? Just deeper space infrastructure?

>>11329345
>Not to mention you won't be allowed to get to orbit with it anyway which is the main barrier.
That makes sense but if anything, that just shows why we need a space port on the Moon or some kind of space station or something. It'd probably make much more sense to build shit there than on here. Though testing launches and stuff might be a bit tricky.

>>11329353
>What "need" would that be? Just deeper space infrastructure?
Yes.

>>11329345
>Not to mention you won't be allowed
Say no to a nuclear-armed battleship and see what happens

>>11329312
why does this piss so many people off? Scientific terminology and symbology come from science fiction all the time. Deep Blue? Hell, even the word "robot" is from a piece of science fiction. Star Trek did a huge amount of good for the advancement of science and is a treasured, optimistic American vision of a cooperative, utopian future. I don't even like Trump but people jump at the dumbest shit to criticize him.

>>11329357
>Yes.
Ah. Well, we're going to Mars soon. I hope.

>>11329368
I actually think it's fascinating how sci-fi tends to influence reality and reality tends to influence sci-fi. Shit makes me wish I grew up reading that shit and not the manga and comics that I did read. And the fantasy stuff too.

Not like I can't become more scientifically literate anyhow.

>>11329368
LOL it doesn't piss me off, I just think it's a joke, like everything Trump does.

>>11329290
>Orbital Guard takes the cake, but yeah, eventually were going to need a name that designates space travel other than just in-orbit.
You clearly have no understanding of what the military actually does in space.

>>11329443
Well when you're the President you're free to rename it to whatever you like anon.

>>11329453
Rob must've felt like a lottery winner when he had that opportunity.

>>11329459
I don't know how any self-respecting writer could pass up such low-hanging fruit as that.

>>11329453
Nah I think I'll let Kanye and Kim take the next one. Being President sure is serious business these days.

>>11329470
>Nah I think I'll let Kanye and Kim take the next one
K homo

>>11329302
Mass anti nuclear propaganda

Download data directly into the mind from anywhere in space-time and avoid primitive locomotion.
The universe is the largest computer. Just log the fuck in already you Neanderthals.

why the fuck is the nosecone venting out the nose

>>11329508
I try restarting my machine each night but the same error occurs each morning.

>>11329513
what?

>>11329675
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d8l_0w2VKM

>>11329686
Looks like a zip-tie porcupine

>>11329020
NASA is probably dead. The future is SpaceX.

>>11329030
>another decade of waiting for preliminary results
Daily reminder that adapted Apollo architecture could have done a Mars flyby in '75 or earlier.

>>11328829
>>11328830
Could Artemis get any less interesting? Just copying Apollo again. Boring.

>>11328829
So what's the point of Artemis now then? Send a woman to the woman in 2050 using 1969 technology? Fuck Boeing, fuck politicians and fuck lobbyists.

>>11329841
If Artemis isn't using Gateway, then what's the point of Gateway?

>>11329836
All powered by expendable launch vehicles, the way God intended

>>11328931
At this rate, by next year, "Artemis" will consist of sending a "non-binary" robot rover to the moon "eventually".

>>11329841
Fuck evaporation

Fuck rain

Fuck not water

Fuck land

>>11329842
>"We're going to the moon!"
>"We're gonna build a permanent moon base this time!"
>"Well actually, we're going to build an ISS knockoff that we'll try to man every now and then if can afford it..."
>"Scratch that, we're going to do a remake of the Apollo landing, only this time with a half female cast"
If there's one the various space programs does not need at this point, it's inverted feature creep and Hollywood remake syndrome.

>>11329855
Note, that is not a Fake Moon Landing post.

>>11329841
There isn't one other than forwarding NASAs progressive social agenda and making Boeing money.
I always thought it was going to end up this way. The crews don't have the skills and experience the old Apollo test pilots did. To do something new (as they were doing back in the 60s) requires a lot of iterations to get there. The Apollo guys cut their teeth on the X-15 program and Gemini. Where's this evolution happening within NASAs current program? I can't see it. So if you have an relatively unskilled crew you have to automate everything. We know far more about the moon now and have far more experience developing guidance software, so they were always just going to copy the Apollo mission profile except automate everything. I mean at least it should be safer than it was back on Apollo. I still don't think people will tolerate having a woman die in space.

>>11329855
The more I think about it the less sense it makes. Maybe if we had ISRU on the moon and the ability to cart that crap up to LLO and stockpile a depot, THEN stopping by the gravity well of the moon would make some sense, but at present with the weird lopsided orbit it's supposed to have I'm having trouble envisioning just what the fuck it's supposed to do.

>>11329844
Well, at least we still have pictures of people who knew what the fuck they were doing.

>>11329867
Yeah.
Time to brush up on my TIG welding skills and order some technical manuals on rocketry I guess.

>>11329864
I never understood it either. It always felt like NASA just wanted to do Apollo again but with women. The LOPG seemed tacked on so they could say "no, it's not the same as Apollo, see!"
Apollo is kind of the best and worst thing that happened to NASA.

>>11329869
It can't hurt to try.

>>11329893
It’s better than nothing.

>>11329952
Sad!

>>11329952
Is that the new Artemis tagline or NASA motto?

>>11329973
Whatever. It’s still better than nothing.

>>11329893
Landing on the moon does not require Gateway. Building the Gateway however requires landing on the moon. NASA wants to go beyond dicking around in LEO, but Apollo proved missions with hardware already built can still be cancelled if it's no longer popular. ISS on the other hand is kept alive even when NASA does not have their own ride there.

>>11329989

>>11330023
Nice meme. I like it,

>>11330025
In hindsight, I should have put a Boeing logo on there too.

>>11328837
It‘s not neccessary for Artemis. It‘s neccessary for Artemis to survive politics.

>>11330095
>It‘s not neccessary for Artemis
Correct.
It is however necessary for the space program at large to show that they're actually planning to make some progress and not just do a remake of the 1968 Apollo 11 landing, only now in Full HD with Lens Flares.

>>11330105
Sorry, 1969. My new pills are making me wonky in the head early in the mornings.

>>11330023
Fucking great.

>>11329686
Why do most of the welds still look like shit?

>>11329279
A company that keeps dropping everything and charging into a new business before profiting from the previous investment won't last long.

>>11330179
Because the point of the exercise is not to go over each weld with a lammel disc, aking size tub of autosol and a giant dose of OCD + autism, but to knock out quick iterations and test them until they break then go back and quickly make the next iteration with what you learned from the past one?

Welding steel out in the open ain't pretty, but it's quick and it's cheap.

>>11328803
Anon I could not help but notice your png was not optimized.
I have optimized your png.
Your png is now optimized.

>>11328801
Delta-v or change in velocity is paramount in space travel. So I'm sure that has something to do with it.

>>11328801

I always thought about it as the delta being a rocket

>>11330266
Arrow, flight, motion towards, progress.
Things like that is what it's supposed to invoke. It's pretty basic design symbolism.

>>11330215
gb2/g/

>>11329453
>>11329462

>>11330023
Thanks the ceaseless efforts from our valiant group of lobbyists, we now have 20% more funding from congress and have updated our mission profile to reflect the changes.
We can now afford to paint logos on the state of the art Solid Rocket Booster systems that will one day put us back on the moon.

>>11328829
Not sure if I understand this completely. Why aren’t you celebrating that the Gateway is canceled? Isn’t that a good thing?

>>11330464
Gateway isn't "cancelled" its now Gateway to Mars. Theres no lunar outpost. No commercial partners. No Mars landing. Just a touch/go on the Moon, aka Apollo 2. Essentially its just a giant Boeing subsidy.

>>11330466
>>11330464
Also "anti-Gateway" people want lunar outpost, mars outpost, mars gateway. They got none.

>>11328778
>logo is a fusion of air force space command and nasa logos
what did they mean by this? is the space force going to take some roles away from nasa?

>>11330470
>YOU GET NOTHING! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR!
>Except for you, Boeing. You get 4 more years on your deadline, 4bn more dollars and you only need to send up a single successful mission.
What's Latin for "Never getting off this rock"? Because that should be put around outline of the new NASA mission badges.

>>11330464
"We" wanted Gateway replaced by something more sensible and useful. Such as an LLO station or a lunar base. However, this latest development of soft-cancelling Gateway is disappointing because it's not being replaced by anything. It's nothing. I don't like Gateway, but at least with it up then NASA would have no excuse to just leave the moon again once the project is over.

>>11330521
>What's Latin for "Never getting off this rock"?
Google Translate says "Numquam Relinquens Terra".

>>11330558
>Numquam Relinquens Terra
neat, lol

ELON MUSK BUILT THIS

IN A MARSH!

WITH A BUNCH OF RINGS!

>>11330558
Well, that'd be roughly Never Leaving Earth. I was going for a more crude version.
Still, it's as fitting a motto as any at this point in time.

>>11328829

>The bill would direct NASA to have “full ownership” of a lunar lander rather than buy services from companies.

>Moreover, the bill directs NASA to develop a human lunar lander “as an integrated lunar landing system carried on an Exploration Upper Stage-enhanced Space Launch System,” known as SLS Block 1B.

>“Lunar in-situ resource utilization shall not be considered as risk reduction for the initial crewed missions to orbit and land on Mars,” the bill states. Such activities “shall not be included in the Moon to Mars Program and shall be budgeted separately from the Moon to Mars Program.” The bill similarly restricts any development of a “continuously crewed lunar outpost or research station.”


https://spacenews.com/house-introduces-nasa-authorization-bill-that-emphasizes-mars-over-moon/

tl;dr: no commercial landers, no lunar base on the surface, no lunar ISRU, Gateway still exists and is just renamed to "Gateway to Mars"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z-VwbhiZOk

SpaceX Boca Chica - Starship Header Tank Pressurization Test

>>11330596
>Lunar in-situ resource utilization shall not be considered as risk reduction for the initial crewed missions to orbit
But will it be considered later?

>>11330199
Does welding make money

>>11330596
So Blue Origin, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and Draper just got BTFO by Boeing then for HLS.

>>11330619
I made a lot of money back when I did it over 20 years ago for the north sea, no idea now. The place I used to work is now decimated in favor of Hyundai docks in Worst Korea though.
If I had kept up my skills and not have issues with neck and back, I could probably have gone to work on rocket engine welding since I worked on 316, titanium and aluminium TIG welding for the most.

>>11330624
>So Blue Origin, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and Draper just got BTFO by Boeing then for HLS.

Considering, the awards for HLS will be given out in February, if this bill actually passes as it is (doubtful) it will be signed into law way after the lander designs have been chosen. This estimation takes into account the pace that past space-related legislation has progressed through Congress at and the fact that Congress is currently occupied with an impeachment trial.

>>11330655
Can private companies go to the moon if they want to? I’d imagine some people would pay big bucks to put payloads on Luna

>>11330686
>Can private companies go to the moon if they want to?
I don't think there's any law specifically against it if a company can already send payloads to space. SpaceX is already sending stuff to the moon for private customers, and RocketLab is gearing up to it. Might upset some planetary protection people, but hopefully it wont be a big deal.

>>11330686

It's the other way around. People will go to and put things on the moon if it is cheap enough.

Enter Starship. The cheap rocket ship.

Wish a major space actor would call the the United States what it is; a distillation of the spirit of exploration.

>>11330696
>Might upset some planetary protection people

Fuck ‘em!
Let’s build giant strip mines on the moon I can see from my backyard.

>another propulsion system slamming into an abyssopelagic carol reef
When will these mogols admit they don't care about Earth

>>11330686
>>11330696
>I’d imagine some people would pay big bucks to put payloads on Luna

You’ve literally described what NASA are doing with CLPS program, creating a business case/market for commercial lunar landers by contracting and subsidising companies to transport their (NASA’s) scientific payloads to the Moon’s surface using commercial landers.

>SpaceX is already sending stuff to the moon for private customers, and RocketLab is gearing up to it.

Yes, SpaceX launched Beresheet and are on contract to launch Intuitive Machines’ CLPS lander, as well as a private lander being developed by a Japanese company. Rocket Lab are technically on contract to launch a lander for Moon Express (but it’s doubtful this will ever happen) and their Photon satellite bus is designed to launch small payloads to the Moon. ULA have also been contracted to launch Astrobotic’s Peregrine CLPS lander on Vulcan’s first flight. Blue Origin’s Blue Moon lander will get built wether or not it receives HLS funding because it predates Artemis and Bezos-bucks.

There’s nothing preventing commercial companies from sending stuff to the Moon and NASA is actively encouraging and subsidising these efforts. One of the problems with the proposed House legislation, is that it prevents NASA from taking the commercial approach to HLS it wants to. This is a purely human spaceflight issue.

>>11330780
Send private astronauts to the moon with private funding, and live in a private colony mining private ore.

>>11330655
Congress is also likely to flip parties in a few months. Not just because of lol muh peach mints, but also because they barely got anything fucking else done over two years.

>>11329869
>>11329903
https://www.youtube.com/user/CphSuborbitals

Join these guys.

>>11330889
Bit of a stigma attached with Captain Murdersub being the co-founder even though he was excluded.

>>11329867
>>11329903
>The quiet. The calm. The competent.
When will we return to this?

>>11330944
Nope.

>>11330947
Why not?

>>11330944
Blue Origin seems to be that type. Hopefully New Glenn takes off without a hitch.

>>11329368
>Star Trek did a huge amount of good for the advancement of science

Star trek isn't event about science you dim-wit.

Just because it's setting is in a space ship doesn't make it science. It's setting is also in a highly idealized post scarcity society. Star trek is all about human nature and human ideal/idealism depicted in contrast to alien ideals and idealism. It's about people, humanity, and society as a hole growing more emotionally intelligent.

I learned a lot of life lessons from Star-Trek, but never did it ever teach me anything about science.

>>11330968
I think that anon meant that Start Trek inspired some developments. Such as the concept of a warp drive, and flip phones.

>>11330968
Obviously a television show didn't materially contribute to science, but it's not a coincidence that most scientists are big Star Trek fans. I think it's inarguable that Star Trek inspired a significant number of kids to get into scientific and technological fields from an early age.

*Ahem*

Threadly reminder:

FUCK BOEING AND FUCK ALL OF THEIR SUPPORTERS.

>>11330889
>Who has the most ambitious space program
>5 million oil rich ex-fishermen using hybrid booster technology from their state owned aerospace defense contractor with NATO contracts
>or
>55 drunk Danes using their left over moonshine and LOX + £12,500 in crowd funding every month building shit in their spare time
Sadly, it's the latter.

>>11331043
IF IT'S BOEING I AIN'T GOEING

>>11331050
If it's Boeing, nobody's going.

>>11330985
> I think it's inarguable that Star Trek inspired a significant number of kids to get into scientific and technological fields from an early age.
Star Trek responsible for suppression of STEM wages, got it

>>11331060
I'm impressed by your ability to be a whiny bitch regardless of the topic.

>>11331053
If it's Boeing, we won't need eyes where we're going

>>11331122
As if Boeing could invent fucking wormhole drives.

>>11331060
>Star Trek responsible for suppression of STEM wages, got it
wut

>>11331131
Just keep throwing money at the pile and eventually it will turn into a singularity.

>>11331138
It's just easier to call him a faggot and move on.

>>11331141

>>11331169
>Th-ere's... still... rooom... for... another... four... billion...morEEEeeeEeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>[STATIC]
>LIBERA TE TUTEMET
>NUMQUAM
>[STATIC]
>RELINQUENS
>TERRA

>>11331169
Nice.

>>11331186
Meant to reply to >>11331181. Oops.

>>11331181
In other news, they baked cookies at the ISS for the first time in human history today.
No really.

Science!

>>11331201
IDK if thats better or worse than testing if space-grown flowers smelt any differently than Earth-grown ones.

>>11331206
Worse. Growing a living thing in micro gravity actually holds scientific value over sticking something into a glorified toaster oven.

>>11331210
And it took them so long to finally get around to trying that? What kind of experiments are they doing up there?

>>11331214
It is horrible. Gentle reminder that ISS is over 21 years old and we still do not know whether mammals can procreate in zero-g..

>>11331210
>>11331214
The cookies aren’t actually a NASA experiment, the Zero G oven is built by a commercial company who’ve partnered with Nanoracks. Also, those cookies do have historical significance: they are the first food baked in space.

>>11331233
>Also, those cookies do have historical significance: they are the first food baked in space
I think the issue is that it took so long before someone tried that.

>>11331214
They do some useful stuff too, but shit like this is the only thing mainstream media cares about, because "space is for kids" or some retarded shit like that.

I'm all for making kids excited about science and space and so on, because I used to be one of those kids back in a time when there was zero focus on space for kids, I got my interest through a father who love science fiction. But doesn't focus solely on that shit please.

>>11331233
Isn't it the same glorified toaster oven they use for every meal that's heatable up there? Hardly breaking new ground.

>>11331235
>Isn't it the same glorified toaster oven they use for every meal that's heatable up there?

No it was sent up on CRS-19, it’s new.

>>11331249
Either way, hard to get excited about a toaster in low earth orbit slow cooking dough sent up on the same supply pod.

https://www.zerogk.space/space-oven

>>11331252
Yes, but we also don't want to take for granted things like baking, which is a fairly complex chemical process and our best guess as to how it might act in 0-g could be wildly wrong.

>>11331263
This is Space Pepsi/Space Coke tier. This is not science.

>>11331235
>but shit like this is the only thing mainstream media cares about, because "space is for kids" or some retarded shit like that.
That's pretty lazy, and it undervalues the intelligence of children. Sure, there's some things that are hard for kids to understand, but focusing on those simple experiments isn't going to encourage them to think more critically. Plus, it paints a picture in their minds that spaceflight is all about doing simple things, while ignoring the things that have larger implications. Which can be disastrous when these kids reach voting age.

>>11331138
larger number of competitors for a given number of jobs means each applicant has to bid for a lower salary in the job market. star trek is claimed to have increased number of people going into stem. QED

>>11330596
>>11328829
Is it possible to know who wrote what specific articles?

>>11331412
No, but the bill was written and put forward by the House Space and Aeronautics subcommittee, with the bill being sponsored by Representatives Kendra Horn (chairwoman), Brian Babin (ranking member), Eddie Bernice Johnson and Frank Lucas. These people are responsible for the abomination, so you know who to mail your letter bombs to...

https://science.house.gov/subcommittees/space-116th-congress

>>11331252
But they made the dough in space too!!1!1!!11!!!

>>11331263
It took way longer than expected for the cookies to bake, and they're trying to figure out why.

>>11331570
Probably due to the lack of gravity to keep the cookies flat. Them naturally turning into a sphere results in needing more energy to heat them to the core.

>>11331567
>>11331575
They came up wrapped inside trays with one layer of silicone on each side to keep them cookie shaped and from moving around inside the toaster.
And yes, it really is a glorified toaster using toaster style elements since convection and hot air in general just doesn't really work as normal in microgravity.

>>11331586
Would adding a fan in the oven help with the convection issue?

>>11331596
Convection ovens are hot air ovens driven by fans, so no.

>>11331467
Well, they put their names on it and probably got some kickbacks for doing so, but as to wrote really wrote it, well. They collect a paycheck from Rhymes with Not Going.

>>11328801
>>11328778
>>11328809
>>11330255
>>11330266
It's because the graphic designers love being irrational.

>>11330619
No, hun. Welding joins two different pieces of metal together under really hot temperatures using a 3rd metal as a, "glue." It doesn't make money.

>>11330619
with more specializiation comes more money. if you do undersea welding it can be very dangerous but pay a lot, and would probably look great if they need welders on Mars

>Roscosmos will spend hundreds of millions of rubles to find lost millions of rubles
Kek
>the state Corporation announced a public procurement to check the overestimation of the cost of completing the first stage of the Vostochny cosmodrome. This follows from materials published on the public procurement website.

>>11331894
https://www.msn.com/ru-ru/money/news/%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%81-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%82-%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B9-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BA-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85-%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B9/ar-BBZaWkT?ocid=ARWLCHR

Sorry for the clusterfuck link

>>11331046
The fact that CopSub are getting so much shit done with so little money isn't sad at all, it's a spectacular indicator of things to come, if they succeed it will be a significant indicator that space is no longer the sole domain of megacorporations and governments.

>>11331935
>if they succeed it will be a significant indicator that space is no longer the sole domain of megacorporations and governments
b-b-but space is haaaaard! you can't do it cheaply and easily!

>>11331940
Martian declaration of independence S O O N

>>11331940
We could have space co-ops in the future same way we have co-op grocery stores and farms. Put in x years of your labor helping build the rockets and stuff, get a ticket to Mars paid for

>>11331956
>When you buy some nuclear propulsion units from NukeX for your makeshift Casaba Howitzer

>>11331958
Isn't that just serfdom but with extra steps?

>>11331974
Serfs are a class in a monarchic system who have little to no social mobility, in a monarchic system all of the classes of citizen are generally considered to exist as they are by divine ordinance. What Anon is describing is a voluntary transaction without currency, somebody with the technology to establish colonies in space offers to trade access to colonies for initial labor in constructing transportation. Realistically some amount of pay would probably be needed or at least rooming and food as well, since people can't eat a ticket to Mars, however if the agreement is mutually consented to then it's about as far from serfdom as you can get. A Serf just has the shit luck to be borne a serf, sucks for him or her that God decided their role in the social order should be that of a laborer. In a contractual agreement to exchange work for transportation you can leave the arrangement at any time, you break your contract, you get no ticket, move on with your life.

>>11331610
>random overlay and ratio that exists in all regular pentagrams
Woopdeefuckingdoo

>>11328815
>>11328803
if trump loses the election spacex is definitly going to make it before nasa.
Not that nasa was lmikely to make it to the moon before spacex in the first place.

>>11332017
>if trump loses the election spacex is definitly going to make it before nasa.
Care to explain your reasoning?

>>11332020
democrat would rather go to mars first, even more so now that the moon represents trump and mars obama.

>>11332022
I thought Obama didn't want Mars and instead wanted an asteroid redirect mission?

>>11332025
He wanted both, mars and the asteroids

>>11332020
Because Bernie hates NASA and votes against funding anything space every single time. Gotta get those programs nigga.

>>11332043
I recall that Bernie did a reddit AMA where he said that he supports NASA and got called out for it. Can't find it though, but it was kinda funny.

>>11332043
>>11332045
Bernie’s response to the NASA question is always “we should be focused on Earth”, which basically translates to: under his presidency NASA climate science and earth observation would have a field day, whilst robotic exploration and human spaceflight would get fucked. In reality congress would prevent them from getting hit too hard, but no big initiatives like Artemis would occur.

>>11331988
well said, anon

>>11331974
no, it's galactic ancap paradise. No longer dependent on governments to cross the natural border of space to explore new reaches and find new lebensraum. In farming coops, usually there is benefits other than just a share in the fruit of the labor (crops, or in our case a rocket ride). You've got a warm, mutually interested community, a home, a say in how things go unlike in a national election where you vote is lost in millions, and a sense of pride that you are literally building with your own hands something that matters, in part for your own benefit

Madcap ideas time: move Io inside of Jupiter's roche limit so Jupiter can have nicer rings and we can mine its materials easier.

>>11332098
I think with the energy required to do so, it would be easier to just blow up chunks of Io.

>>11332098
Io needs to be a geothermal/mining moon
And if Europa has no life and has hydrothermal vents, transplant hydrothermal organisms into it

>>11332098
CHEESE

>>11332107
Just gotta send down mining/construction robots that process local materials into copies of themselves and build thrusters covering one hemisphere of the surface. Bing bang boom, few centuries and Jupiter has some nice rings. Easy, right?

>>11331956
Fuck the Terran Empire
Shall not be infringed
And Falcon super-heavy needs to bring a mobile construction yard with swarm robots

>>11332025

Obama was Mars inclined and wanted to speed up the timeframe for a manned Mars mission from where it stood.

Originally the asteroid mission was a shakedown cruise for a crew Mars Transfer vehicle, the equivalent of something later called the Deep Space Transport. His plan was to incubate the technologies for the Mars capable crew transport vehicle and then have it be built and then do exploration missions with it.

Asteroids were somewhat topical at the time. It was noticed that another asteroid had crashed into Jupiter. Little known tidbit: Obama asked for a poster of the planet Jupiter, I think from the NASA admin.

After the mission to an asteroid another mission would head to Mars orbit, then Mars orbit as part of a landing effort.

Then SLS and Orion happened, and that sucked all the air out of the room, and pushed Mars stuff out on a longer timeframe. NASA's admin later found a cheap mission concept for the asteroid redirect mission and wanted to do that, to "live up to" the asteroid aim, even though it didn't incorporate the original context.

>>11332136

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Jupiter_impact_event

>>11332132
>build thrusters covering one hemisphere of the surface
Do you want a Decepticon Warworld? Because this is how you make a Decepticon Warworld.

>>11331230
>and we still do not know whether mammals can procreate in zero-g..

Of course we can.

>>11332188
>...and so the zoophile space program was started...

>>11332160
The neural net governing the bot swarm couldn't possibly grow complex enough to have personal motivations divergent from its original purpose, could it? Nah.

>>11332160
>Emiting greenhouse gasses to terraform mars
>Using orbital mirrors to terraform mars
>Nuking the polar ice caps to terraform mars
>Focusing orbital mirrors onto a lithuium deuteride sphere to nuke the ice caps
>Destroying mars and using the material to build a cybertron-dyson sphere-ringworld space station to terraform

>>11332189
>Some roman douch fucked a mare and she gave birth to the goddess of fertility and horses
>Imagine what the radiation would do to that offspring

>>11332192
>red ring around the sun instead of a red planet
Mite be nice

>>11332196
Probably would look like one of those totally-aliens from Firefly.

pop

>>11332248
Was it supposed to pop?

>>11332250

I think so.

>>11332250
brrrr

>>11332263
We get it! You vape.

>>11332136
>Then SLS and Orion happened
Why do those have to be so terrible...

Musk's efforts to back up humanity were too little too late. How does this make you feel, /sfg/?

>>11332317
>Musk's efforts to back up humanity were too little too late.
Nah. If that virus is as bad as doom sellers claim, then it's still going to take a while. And if the US government feels that it's important, then they would push SpaceX's development along.

>How does this make you feel, /sfg/?
Not worried.

>>11332317
>Nothingburger disease with a fatality rate under 10%

Lol.

>>11332317
It'll be fine. 100 million die, the world gets a wakeup call, we move forward into a new era. Good times.

>>11332320
>Nah. If that virus is as bad as doom sellers claim

It isn’t. It’s a meme that schizos will be obsessed with for a few months until the news gets bored of it just like Ebola.

>>11332328
>It'll be fine. 100 million die

You’re an idiot if you think more than five thousand will die.

>>11332331
I know, but I was using what those people say to explain that even worse case scenario isn't as some think.

>>11332332
screencapping this post, lol

>>11332340
SARS has a 9.6% fatality rate and went extinct in two years. Wuhan virus has a fatality rate under 5%.

It’s nothing, but I’m sure it provides some small degree of excitement for people who have fuck all going on in their lives.

>>11332320
fuck off no fun allowed schizo

>>11332345
Wuhan is only killing old Chinese people who smoke two packs a day. It's a respiratory thing, after all.

>>11332353
that crane looks like a dick and balls in the thumbnail

>>11332353
It's been years since I read The Stand but didn't the superflu work the same way, filling up the lungs rapidly and asphyxiating the victims? The difference being that had like a 95% fatality rate and 100% of people globally got it.

>>11332360
If Wuhan virus is a bioweapon, it’s a fucking terrible one.

>>11332379
>quality
>made-in-china

>>11332135
It still hurts Anon, they fuggin took our sky.

>>11331935
The point of the post was to point out just how fucking sad one of the richest countries in the world's space ambitions were.
Hybrid fuel nano satellite delivery system. And that's with Kongsberg Aerospace to develop the rockets.

>>11332317
I fucking wish
germ theory
The absolute fucking rock solid retardation that is the human immune system (It probably has pneumonic viral contagions and variants thereof proverbially seething)
And just simply staying hydrated has alphamaled every airborne respiratory virus.

nothing fun or dangerous like the spanish flu or bubonic plague will ever happen again

I'd donate to an open source reusable rocket project. Orbital only. Everything must be published online and freely accessible

Is it possible or feasible to build a "Shuttle 2.0" using modern technologies? One that would solve all of the shortcomings of the actual Shuttle. Using pic related as a baseline:

>Reusable fly back liquid side boosters a la Falcon Heavy
>An actual crew escape system
>Subcooled methalox instead of the hydrogen meme
>Standardised heatshield tiles so tile replacement isn't as expensive
>Newer SSMEs that don't require dismantling after every flight
>Build the ET with Mexican subcontractors so that they can be shit out on the cheap (see Starship)
>Paint the ET to prevent foam falling off, payload capacity be damned

Basically what if SpaceX builds a Shuttle.

>Elon confirms hyperloop 2020 competition is on
FUCK now our team will actually have to put in effort

>>11332515
>The absolute fucking rock solid retardation that is the human immune system
do you have a better solution

>>11332345
Corona chan has infected 2k people, assuming you believe the official numbers which are clearly bullshit, in like two weeks meanwhile SARS took three months to infect 8k. Do you remember them quarantining 50m people with guys with guns and hazmat suits, blocking off roads with dump trucks dropping dirt on the road for SARS?

>>11332531
Why do we want to revive a fancy low earth orbit flotation device? It's time to leave the kiddy pool.

>>11332581
Space shuttles for domestic ownership.

>>11332669
For what purpose? Because they're neat?
We need to get the fuck out of this gravity well, not splash around in it.

>>11332674
>For what purpose? Because they're neat?
I mean yeah, not every ship is made to cross an ocean, some are just for tooling around the harbor showing off.

>>11328778
>Section 1. Introduction. Space is integral to our way of life, our national security, and modern warfare. Although United States space systems have historically maintained a technological advantage over those of our potential adversaries, those potential adversaries are now advancing their space capabilities and actively developing ways to deny our use of space in a crisis or conflict. It is imperative that the United States adapt its national security organizations, policies, doctrine, and capabilities to deter aggression and protect our
interests.
>Beginning of Starfleet.

>>11332719
Star trek posters are the gayest fucking soi cunts of all time. Imagine thinking the US military is a force for good, fuck off.

>>11332754
>Imagine thinking the US military is a force for good, fuck off.

t. japan poster still seething his baby-raping psychopath empire got its shit kicked in by the best country in the world

>>11332755
Absolutely kill yourself bootlicker.

>>11332764
Your seething will never un-bomb whatever terrorist movement you worship. America is the best and strongest!

>>11332754
You don't know anything about the US military.

>>11332703
Focus on utility vessels first, pleasure boats can wait.

>>11332764
Unless you're here to shit on Boeing or talk about space, fuck off.

>>11332784
Inavding multiple sovereign countries, killing hundreds of thousands, deploying chemical and radioactive weapons against civilian populations, etc... Under fucking proven false pretenses and with fabricated evidence is all I need to know thanks.

>>11332812
>Nooooooooooooo! don’t destroy evil dictatorships! STOOOOOOOP

Why are they still researching zero g on humans in the ISS? We know it's bad and Mir provided all the data we need.

So the iss should spend its remaining life building a torus type station. That has .33g of spin gravity. So we can go beyond zero g and start seeing if Mars is sufficient.

>>11332912
>We know it's bad and Mir provided all the data we need

It’s actually harmless with proper procedure and genetic engineering can completely remove it as a problem.

>>11332358
an astute observation, teach me master

>>11332358

>>11332914
source?

>>11332944
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29924745

Also, we could just, you know.....not have biological legs and arms. The future is robotic.

>>11332965
So just be a roided out post human cyberorg?

>>11332981
Microgravity reduces the muscle mass of the muscles that constantly work against gravity. On earth, they get a constant workout just from walking around and general existence, but up in orbit, they shrink because they’re not getting used. Exercise is used to reduce muscle loss on the ISS and it works well enough for the few months people spend up there at a time, but exercise and testosterone supplementation can allow for people to maintain and even gain muscle mass in such conditions. We could go around this issue by having prosthetics instead of meat legs. This would eliminate a lot of the issue and reduce caloric intake. Something else that should be considered is that the loss in muscle mass only really matters if you expect to go back to Earth. Actual Martians shouldn’t be expected to maintain Earth muscle mass.

>>11332990
What about bone density?

Ribbed for your spacecraft’s pleasure...

>>11332531
yeah, it looks like Starship

>>11332703
it's 2020, I demand space yachts for millionaihs and billionaihs

>>11333012
Bone density has been solved through a new excercise machine and regimen, we had a long discussion about it when the news broke maybe 2-3 months ago.

>>11333012
Bone mass is lost for the same reasons muscle mass is lost and is countered in the same way, basically.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10368347
I wonder if magnetic boots could be used to approximate gravity.

>>11333044
I would like to purchase one of these space yachts. It's going to be beautiful, it's going to be orange, and it's going to be 'uge.

>>11332674
for the purpose of a well regulated militia..." SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

>>11333050
Trump Space Hotel: built by cutrate illegal Russian space workers who he refused to pay. But pretty opulent

>>11333046
>>11332990
>>11332965

That is all nice if you have a bunch of trained, healthy adults staying on a space station for two years. But we are talking about a colony here. Can you give birth to kids and will they develop acceptably in Martian gravity, spending their whole lives there? We do not know.

Radiation and other stuff we can deal with. Low gravity is the only real unknown unknown that could very well kill the whole idea of a Mars colony.

>>11333081
> Can you give birth to kids and will they develop acceptably in Martian gravity, spending their whole lives there?

Yeah, they’d just have lower muscle mass than earth kids because there’s less gravity to work against. I’m sure natural selection will work many other changes given time, not to mention genetic engineering.

>>11333046
Magnetic boots do nothing more than keep you attached to something. It's like the difference between free-fall and being in a vertical wind tunnel. You may be floating in the air, but your guts are still subject to gravity, unlike a real sky-dive or microgravity.

>>11333081
At least on a lunar base it wouldn't be too hard to ship a baby back to Earth. From Mars it would take at least six months of free-fall.
We haven't even had any mammal birth on ISS to see how they develop. I don't think we've had any animal births up there at all, and we've barely grown plants. I'm sure "they" expect that what would happen to a baby mouse might be creepy enough to rile up people down on the ground. It's easier to do nothing than have to justify something that goes horribly wrong.

>>11333163
>Magnetic boots do nothing more than keep you attached to something

Yes, but you’d still have to use force to walk around, using the relevant muscles. In principle, you could do this on EVA.

>>11333172
> From Mars it would take at least six months of free-fall.

Three to four with NTRs,

> We haven't even had any mammal birth on ISS to see how they develop.

That’s dumb. Just have some mice fuck.

>>11333046
Not going to work for a colony. You'd also need to workout 16 hours a day and it still wouldn't help. It'd just slow down the degradation instead of stopping it. Of course, by 2 years you'll begin to go blind from the extra fluid pressures in your head against your eyeballs.

Just spin up a big ass centrifuge and negate all that shit. Also, fuck NASA for not having some form of spinning ship, station, or module by now.

>>11333182
Letting this burn up was a national disgrace.

>>11333172
>>11333179
Seems like there's a shit load of problems due to lack of gravity:
http://iss.jaxa.jp/en/kiboexp/news/180719_mouse.html

JAXA's 3rd Mouse breeding mission finished
Last Updated: July 19, 2018

The 3rd Mouse breeding mission (for 31 days from April 4 to May 5), which had been conducted on board the Pressurized Module of Japanese Experiment Module (JEM) "Kibo" , completed and the space-bred mice returned to Earth aboard the Dragon spacecraft (SpX-14) on May 6 (Japan Standard Time, JST).

On May 7, the mouse cage for return was handed over from NASA to JAXA, which subsequently confirmed the survival of all mice. In this mission, six knock-out mice with deleted the genes of Nrf2, a control factor involved in biological stress defense, (mice highly sensitive to stress) and six control mice that were native, 12 mice in total, had been bred in space for a long term. The mission has brought the world's first achievement of the long duration stay in space and return all alive of gene-knockout mice.

While staying in space, humans face many kinds of medical risks, so-called space stresses, including oxidative stress, DNA disorder, and cell death caused by cosmic radiation and interference in intracellular signal transduction caused by mechanical stress due to the microgravity environment.
To elucidate these risks, avoid the space stresses, and examine the measures is an essential issue to space exploration.

This breeding mission focuses on Nrf2, a transcription factor which controls a group of biological defense genes and is expected to play a defensive role in space stress. The mission is intended to return Nrf2-deficient mice and native mice to Earth after being bred on board for a long term, about 30 days, clarify the contribution of activated Nrf2 contributes to biological defense to space stress, and demonstrate the effectiveness of Nrf2-inducing agent in reducing risks in space.

>>11333174
That goes in the wrong direction. You need to work the muscles for standing up, not the ones that lift your legs.
And it's not just your muscles, you also need weight on your bones keeping them in compression.

>>11333184
ikr

>>11333179
>That’s dumb. Just have some mice fuck.
Nah, you'd need to have the experiment done in a way to farm grants. Doing spaceflight quickly and cheaply is simply not feasible (to generate as much money for as little work as possible).

>>11333184
It was the first direct casualty of the Shuttle.

>>11333185
>JAXA's 3rd Mouse breeding mission finished
This seems to have been about breeding (on the ground) for stress factors and seeing how well they handle space, not pregnancy or the growth of juveniles. I don't see anything about how old the mice are when they go up.
Of course the hardest thing would probably getting mice to fuck in zero gee, that is very gravity-dependent, otherwise they would just bounce off each other.

>>11333191
crewed starship better fucking have some kind of running ring

>>11333198
>Of course the hardest thing would probably getting mice to fuck in zero gee, that is very gravity-dependent, otherwise they would just bounce off each other.
Maybe leaving mesh tubes that have an inner diameter of two mice stacked on top of each other in the fornicatorium, and then letting the mice figure it out for themselves?

>>11333198
>The mission is intended to return Nrf2-deficient mice and native mice to Earth after being bred on board for a long term, about 30 days

>otherwise they would just bounce off each other.
lol Most animals use grappling as a means to latch onto their mate for fucking. There's no bounce back due to that. It helps prevent competing males from getting in.

>>11333182
>Not going to work for a colony

Where? Muscle loss has no significance for people in microgravity unless they’re going to a planet. For people on some kind of body, they’d have the muscle mass necessary to resist the gravity of that body and nothing more would be needed. I’m sure it’d be a real inconvenience if they ever want to tour Earth but we can rig up exoskeletons or some goofy future shit for them in that case.

> Of course, by 2 years you'll begin to go blind from the extra fluid pressures in your head against your eyeballs.

Problem already solved. Clayton Anderson has genetics that make the issue not appear. I’d rather have robot eyes that can perceive a wider spectrum of wavelengths anyway.

>>11333198
>Of course the hardest thing would probably getting mice to fuck in zero gee, that is very gravity-dependent, otherwise they would just bounce off each other.

I don’t think it’s a problem. If you watch videos of them, they figure out how to propel themselves across the cage with leaps, balance with their tails, and spend most of their time simply walking on the mesh.

>>11333209
>bred on board
This is translated from japs, so that might not mean what you think it means. I want to see details about how old the mice were then they went up. They're talking about genes being swapped around, that's not something you do with mice fucking naturally.

>>11333206
>Maybe leaving mesh tubes that have an inner diameter of two mice stacked on top of each other in the fornicatorium, and then letting the mice figure it out for themselves?
4chan: leading the world in the biologic sciences, by fighting against the horrors of rodent inceldom!

>>11332576

Better procedures developed after SARS. Take no chances.

>>11333220
>4chan: leading the world in the biologic sciences, by fighting against the horrors of rodent inceldom!
Perfecting rodent fornicatoriums has implications for human ones.

>>11333212
>Just make a spinning station to solve all these issues.
>"NOOOOO! YOU MUST CHANGE YOUR VERY DNA!!!"
That just sounds like a massive amount of unseen problems to me.

>>11333242
There is no “issue”. Muscle loss doesn’t have significance for people living outside of gravity wells permanently.

>>11333200
Starship will be 2.3m wider in diameter too, compared to skylab. It will be really interesting to watch people bounce around in there. Unfortunately it's still nowhere near wide enough for an effective centrifuge ring, even the hypothetical 18m starship would be too small for immediately comfortable centrifuges, you could eek out about .32g but the Coriolis effect would be uncomfortably high and the angular velocity of 4rpm would be noticeable and cause motion sickness requiring a week or two of acclimation in most people.

>>11333196
The goddamn shuttle...
REEEE

>>11333220
>>11333198
>>11333185
>>11333172
>>11333179
>2009
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610337/
>Pregnant rats were flown on the NASA Space Shuttle during the early developmental period of their fetuses’ vestibular apparatus and onset of vestibular function. The authors report that prenatal spaceflight exposure shapes vestibular-mediated behavior and central morphology. Postflight testing revealed (a) delayed onset of body righting responses, (b) cardiac deceleration (bradycardia) to 70° head-up roll, (c) decreased branching of gravistatic afferent axons, but (d) no change in branching of angular acceleration receptor projections with comparable synaptogenesis of the medial vestibular nucleus in flight relative to control fetuses. Kinematic analyses of the dams’ on-orbit behavior suggest that, although the fetal otolith organs are unloaded in microgravity, the fetus’ semicircular canals receive high levels of stimulation during longitudinal rotations of the mother’s weightless body. Behaviorally derived stimulation from maternal movements may be a significant factor in studies of vestibular sensory development. Taken together, these studies provide evidence that gravity and angular acceleration shape prenatal organization and function within the mammalian vestibular system.

>>11333244
>oxidative stress, DNA disorder, and cell death caused by cosmic radiation and interference in intracellular signal transduction caused by mechanical stress due to the microgravity environment.

>>11333256
So basically, rats that spend time as a fetus in microgravity grow up to be worse at balance in a gravity well?
That’s interesting but ultimately irrelevant for orbitals who stay up there.

>>11332812
>implying all that is bad
>implying imperialism is bad
The US is better than those shit countries anyway, and do you really believe that those were "civilians".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3490786
Several consistent medical problems have been encountered by astronauts during space flights. These include:

vestibular dysfunction
weight loss
increase in height
upward fluid shift
anemia
cardiovascular deconditioning
muscle atrophy
bone loss

Almost all of these alterations can be attributed to the absence of gravitational force. Most are adaptive in nature and therefore reversible, but readaptation after returning to earth may cause further problems (e.g., in the case of vestibular dysfunction).

>The most recalcitrant and disturbing of all these problems is the relentless bone loss associated with negative calcium balance.

This problem appears to be irreversible, and critical demineralization can occur after two years in a weightless state. Unless its mechanism is elucidated and preventive measures are taken, the bone loss may prove to be the medically limiting factor for the duration of space flight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illness_and_injuries_during_spaceflight#Medical_conditions_due_to_long-term_space_flights
https://www.nasa.gov/hrp/bodyinspace

>>11332812
>t. losing side tantrum post
hard keks

>>11333216
Wait, there's videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X415TsL2OqY
>artificial gravity environment (1G)
So they had some kind of centrifuge on board for them? I guess they're small enough that Coriolis forces aren't a problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7lgj3aZ8dU
At least they figured out how to exercise by running around the walls of the cage.

So anyhow all the "breeding" from this was after they came back down. As in "are they too freaked out to breed or are there birth defects?" And they were all female, so there was no chance of hanky panky in space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZvelHqlqY
This seems interesting, however it's only going to be spin-gee. (unless there's a docking I guess, the other end must just be a dummy mass) And breeding will be controlled, so it won't be another mouse utopia. But it could still look for issues with radition. (MUTANT SPACE MICE YEAH)

And now for something completely different:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVtpwRSyYSM

>>11333256
Okay, now let's have them grow from birth to adulthood in zero gee and see what differences it causes in body shape. There was no time for that when on Shuttle.

>>11333287
> As in "are they too freaked out to breed or are there birth defects?"

They should calm down after a while, maybe with a friendlier and darker environment in which they’re never far from a surface to cling onto and use to climb. I keep rats and they’re chill. Never had problems getting them to fuck as long as they’re young enough. The problem I see is that the mother may have problems rounding up the pups and keeping them where she wants them since they can just float off.

>>11332528
cant in the US. all potential missile tech is protected by US law, its why rocket companies can only hire US citizens

>>11332248
any data from the test?

>>11333246
Why would you need a ring though? Just connecting two starships with a tether and spinning them around would be fine

>>11333410
True, so long as their linkage can survive the stresses of the spinning masses, although if I'm not mistaken starships connect ass-to-ass, not nose-to-nose, so you'd have to build the habitats of spinships upside-down, so that when they spin up people won't be standing on the relative "ceiling".

>>11333489
starship isn't designed for loads in that direction on that join
Starship IS designed to be lifted by a crane for mounting on Super Heavy (full of cargo)
the solution is simple: nose to nose flexible tether

>>11333489
>although if I'm not mistaken starships connect ass-to-ass, not nose-to-nose

Saw that in the animation SpaceX put out a while ago. Has that been done before?

>>11333489
>ass-to-ass

>>11333534
That's why we have Kerbal Space Program.

>>11333498
no, nothing of that size has ever even been put into space, much less precision docked to each other
luckily, I think docking gets easier when it gets bigger

>>11333557
>I think docking gets easier when it gets bigger

Not sure about that. I tried docking in college but it felt kind of awkward.

>>11333569
it's better when they're symmetric

>>11329158
Don't waste an opportunity to become Buzz Lightyear of Star Command

>>11331050

>>11331940

Considering all the fuckery with SLS, Orion and the maybe/maybe not lunar tollboth, why are they not going with Moon Direct instead?

>>11332263
Is the entire vehicle gonna look like a snowman like this on launch?

>>11332317
Remember the swine and bird flus? Literally jackshit is going to happen. Some old people get pruned, that's it.

>>11333794
Looks all we're getting is more money for Boeing, a single touchdown on the moon for a photo op and a vague promise of Mars some time long after the current administration has left a potential second term.
Are you hyped for Apollo mk 2 with lens flares? Boy I sure am.

>>11332531
>Basically what if SpaceX builds a Shuttle.
Starship IS a shuttle.

>>11333870
>>11332317
>about 50% lethality to recovery rate
it's like that marvel movie thingy

just let it happen i say

>>11332812
Right so your opinion of them is based on one facet of what they have done with ignorance of the rest of the picture. Basically what I assumed.

>>11333912
>a history of pointless invasions is "one facet"
oh i'm sure the soldiers are told that they're the "good guys", so they more willingly throw their life away for someone else's imperialist ambitions

>>11329294
enjoy dying of radiation sempai

>>11333572
>symmetrical docking
yes

>>11333931
>a history of pointless invasions is "one facet"
correct

Behold the mighty TCAT (Tank Cleaning and Testing) building!

i have to work tomorrow please weather delay thanks

>>11333723
kek I remember when I posted that.

>Wheel mounted gyroscope is a fast engine in space

what

>>11334345
excuse me

http://www.adastrarocket.com//pressReleases/2020/AdAstraPressReleaseJan232020_final_photo.pdf
VASIMIR fucking exists now

>>11334635
I thought it already existed? Anyways, congratulations to them.

>>11334635
VASIMR isn't that useful on its own, the real breakthrough would be a higher power-to-weight ratio electricity supply.

>>11330558

>>11334781
thanks google translate

>>11334781
kek

>>11334781
Good job. Someone should mail this to NASA along with a copy of the bill with the Apollo 2.0 stuff highlighted.

>>11334635
About fucking time, they're only like six years behind schedule.
>>11334665
Right, the thing was going to need batteries that would take 15+ minutes to charge from the ISS solar cells for one small station-keeping burn. Ion engines may be able to keep on burnin', but you have to have a really good power supply first.

>>11334851
>About fucking time, they're only like six years behind schedule.
Compared to how well NASA has done, that's pretty good.

>>11334808
You mean mail it to the Representatives who put forward the bill, right? NASA played no part in it’s creation and basically everyone there but the ‘Mars mafia’ will likely hate it. We already know some members of the UAG (the National Space Council’s advisory group) have complained to Pence about it and I’m interested in what Bridenstine’s public reaction to it will be, when he’s inevitably asked about it at the Commercial Space Transportation conference this week.

>>11334868
Screw it, mail it to all of them.

>>11334858
I mean SLS will only be 4 years behind schedule when it launches next year and Commercial Crew will have had the same slippage when DM-2 and CFT happen this year. JWST on the other hand...(although considering what happened with Hubble, decade-long delays are basically a tradition for flagship telescopes now).

>>11332317
It's sad for the victims but it very probably won't turn into a catastrophic pandemic, the Chinese government is just using it to scare people into believing the CCP has any place running their country and make people forget CCP just lost HK elections in a big way, otherwise they would've banned wildlife poaching markets long ago.

>>11332515
It just werks.

Starlink-4 weather is 50% no-go right now. Will hold off on launch thread until a couple hours before launch; 1 day delay is likely

>>11333794
I don't see SLS there.