/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11329085
What's there to talk about? Its cheap and easy to setup. Pays for itself in <2-5 years if you install it yourself. Pays for itself within 7-15 years if you have professional install it.

renewable are a scam.

with the current technology atleast

>>11329191
>Pays for itself in <2-5 years
>t. delusional

>>11329085
hope a bird doesn't shit on it
or that you aren't at a high latitude

Whats there to talk about? It cant supply a city alone and if you tried itd cook all the birds nearby

>>11329191
30 years repayment if I DIY my own setup. That doesn't even include a battery array or any type of maintenance or replacement.

>>11329331
>>11329384
You're doing something wrong.

>Avg electric bill/m
$120

>Solar panels
16 x 315 watt panels from CanadianSolar @ $227 = $3600 for 5kW
$1600 on 16 x $100 @ 300w micro inverters

Total = $5200

This will reduce electricity cost by ~50%, assuming no credit, no subsidy, no tax writeoffs, etc. So $60 x 12 months x 7 years = $5000. Paid off in 7 years .

If you have any solar credit, you'll pay that off much faster. If you have any solar tax cuts, even faster.

Are you retarded?

>>11329315
why do you say this?
looking pretty sweet to me

>>11329545
>Paid off in 7 years
and dies in 5 years
good

Good for homes if it weren't so expensive.
Other than that lack of batteries that aren't absolute turds makes electrical energy a waste of time.
Pretty much storage is the reason any electric clean alternative is completely uninteresting.

>>11329853
standard warranty is 20+ years so if it dies in 5 you get new panels free, win win.

>>11329934

>>11329085
the technology is ready and far-spread, at this point it's just /biz/ and in many states a great investment

>>11329085
Meme technology. There are not enough rare earths to scale it up significantly.

It's ok for very small loads like 1-2 people living a low energy lifestyle but it isn't a grid level solution so isn't worth seriously discussing as one.
The panels are full of rare earth metals and can't be effectively recycled when they die in 20 years so any large scale use would just result in us spending even more (non-solar) power to recover the metals in the future.

>want to stick some on your house
Go ahead
>want to power a nations grid
Hahahahaha, no

>>11330015
This is what I hate more about solar niggers. They claim that it's "renewable" energy, but they generate more waste than the lame amount of energy they give.
Nuclear is way more efficient only leaving leftovers of metals.
Renewable scammers are killing Earth.

>>11330007
Don't worry. Solar cells are made of silicon, That's one of he most abundant elements on eath. It's made of sand. And we need only a razor thin layer.
We will never run out of it. But we will run out of fossil fuel and nuclear fuel in a few decades.

>>11330254
People maybe confusing solar with battery.

>>11329545
Pure garbage. My sister and her husband live rural and had several solar companies give them quotes. The LOWEST quote to power their small 3bed 2000sq/ft home was $25,000. TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS. Try again jew.

>>11330328
Get your wife's boyfriend to DIY for you.

>>11330092
I'm all for renewble but they need to be used where they fit and not treaded as a mirical cure.
If the geography fits I like hydro, pumped hydro grid level storage, wind, sea current and solar but for base load and to cover times these aren't generating we need lots of modern fission plants.
Personally I'm hoping to use a combo of wind and solar on my house in the next few years but that won't help when I got to work and use hundreds of amps running machine tools.

>>11330254
>>11330302
People forget about the cadmium, indium and gallium the silicon is impregnated with.

>>11330518
Can't find a single source for any of this.

guys do you think there is any hope for it to become great? i was looking forward to be a solarfag

>>11330576
no.

>>11329600
That image is fake btw

>>11330254
>run out of nuclear fuel in a few decades
Are you retarded?

>>11329339
>high latitude
You know you can tilt the panels, right? Right?

>>11330328
>Live rural
>Cant even bolt a solar panel to their roof without a contractor
embarrassing

>>11329085
the math doesn't add up

>>11330573
Any textbook with an intro chapter on electrochemistry or band-gap theory will suffice.

>>11329545
>You're doing something wrong.
>Avg electric bill/m
>$120
Anon, my electric bill is only $20-$40 per month. The problem is the battery array needed for high power draw items that don't run for very long. There's no solar credit, tax cuts, or anything like that. Also, you need more than just 5kW of panels due to solar index, weather, etc.

>>11331059
I'm asking about real life here

>>11329191
as opposed to stocks that pay off themselves instantly?

>>11330518
That's not true, silicon cells are pure silicon crystals with just a few atoms of phosphorous, that's it.
You can also make solar cells from other materials. It's way more expensive so it's only used for some special applications. e.g. in space-flight.

>>11330687
while we will not "run out" uranium resources are limited is already getting way more expensive, we would need to open new mining sites or start nuclear disarmament if we want to keep as much nuclear plants running as we do now

>>11329191
actually putting solar on your roof pays for itself in no time because the value of your house will go up

>>11331113
bullshit, there is enough uranium for hundreds of years, millions with breeder reactors

>>11331066
You dont need battery unless you want to live offgrid. 5kwh solar panels can pay for itself just with day time electricity usage. If your state allows for solar credit and you dont use daytime electricity, then you get to use those credit in night time. It pays for itself.

>>11331137
prove it.

>>11330682
Lazard is a pretty reputable source, i don't suppose you have a more accurate one?

>>11331223
Can't read well huh? Also, who is home during the day?

>>11331314
>If your state allows for solar credit and you dont use daytime electricity

>Can't read well huh?

>>11331223
>>11331066
Also, only 3 states don't have net metering, so chances are your solar panel will give you credit for use.

>>11329191
If you're in America, yes.

If you're in Europe, no. Europe barely gets any sunlight compared to Dixieland

>solar
>produces more toxic waste than nuclear
>panels are moved using dirty diesel engines
>panels must be installed by humans, who drive cars and exhale co2
>panels must be maintained by humans, who drive cars and exhale co2

>>11331542
citation needed

much better than fuel mining and shipments

faster and cheaper and far more environmentally friendly than 10Year+ power plant constructions

requires far less lifetime maintenance than other power plants

>>11331579
>I don't know how a search engine works and don't know how a solar panel is made please spoonfeed me
Did you know that as solar panels get better they produce more toxic waste to build?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/05/nuclear-is-still-cheaper-and-safer-than-solar-and-wind.html%3famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/09/11/had-they-bet-on-nuclear-not-renewables-germany-california-would-already-have-100-clean-power/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/solar-panels-produce-tons-of-toxic-waste-literally//amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/amp/

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/23/solar-panel-waste-a-disposal-problem/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.baka.com.au/politics/federal/waste-crisis-looms-as-thousands-of-solar-panels-reach-end-of-life-20190112-p50qzd.html

http://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/6/21/are-we-headed-for-a-solar-waste-crisis

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/10/25/18018820/solar-panel-waste-chemicals-energy-environment-recycling

>>11331113
>>11331251
bro, uranium is getting less expensive because there is an overstock of supply. companies actually had to STOP farming uranium because they were producing so much and hurting competition and their economy of it. and although i'm not a scientist they are experimenting with other shit off of the periodic table that they can easily use as substitute or in progress for cleaner energy. the efficiency of nuclear energy heavily outweighs solar and wind but because of the psychological ptsd for normies and governments they are afraid to use it

>>11331599
>Did you know that as solar panels get better they produce more toxic waste to build?
>Nuclear shills and denialists incensed by the renewables that killed nuclear.

>>11331599
your own articles do a pretty good job of explaining that panels are 95%+ recyclable, and demand and possibly some responsible legislation is all that's needed. So i guess we agree? Meanwhile have fun cleaning up uranium mines, and burrying and transporting radioactive waste for thousands of years, hope you don't spill any.

>>11331874
Everything is recyclable. That demand isn't there because people just haven't thought about recycling solar panels -- it isn't there because it's economically infeasible due to the energy input required to recycle solar panels.

>>11331886
>economically infeasible due to the energy input required to recycle solar panels.
wrong you pulled that out of your ass, the real problem is there currently just isn't aren't enough panels currently being decommissioned for there to be enough demand to actually build the required facilities.

>>11331905
>the real problem is there currently just isn't aren't enough panels currently being decommissioned for there to be enough demand to actually build the required facilities
Wrong. Even if we remove all the solar panel in the world to create demand, it won't change the fact that solar currently has very little share of the energy market.

The problem isn't people decommissioning, the problem is lack of scale. Solar panels are immensely valuable for any new buildings/home owners. Not only do they add value in resale, they also pay off their initial investment in 10 years.

>>11331419
it strongly depends on prices for electricity and some other factors as you can see here >>11329966

Electricity in Europe is usually quite expensive and there are subsidies in many nations. Putting solar on your roof will make you money. Even in less sunny regions like northern Germany.

>all the bullshit lies in this thread

Who pays you fuckers? No one believes that a solar install costs 25k or that panels fail after 5 years, fuck off.

>>11330518
You're thinking of other substrate types.
Solar cells are just diodes with wires attached you don't need much to get a working one.

>>11329191
Anon, the voices in your head aren´t a source, you know? Take your meds.

>>11332684
I guess they work for a utility company. They spread misinformation to keep home-owners from becoming energy independent.

>>11329085
Its garbage and has harmful chemicals released once it has outlived its usefulness. Also too much land is needed

>>11331579
>requires far less lifetime maintenance than other power plants
You gotta really be far up your own ass to believe that

>>11332684
>No one believes that a solar install costs 25k
They can cost $25K, but that would mean a very large solar panel install with all the bells/whistles.

Ofcourse if you want to do it yourself or hire an independent electrician to setup the wires, it will cost you much less.

>>11332702
Panels belong on rooftops yes.

>>11330328
>Companies adding a huge markup to a few thousand worth of materials
Who could have guessed

>>11329191
BASED
>FossilBTFO

>>11329315
solar seems like a pretty good gig for individual homeowners desu
but it's no replacement for any large scale electric infrastructure as it stands today.

>>11332702
>Also too much land is needed

>>11329545
> Avg 120 USD

I'm pretty sure that's just a random number you came with lmao

I'm literally paying 1/10th of that amount during winter

>>11331354
The energy from panels is almost worthless to a grid provider because they make most of their energy outside peak hours and their capacity factor is abysmal. So most net metering will only pay a few cents per kWh because that's truly what it's worth.

>>11335830
peak demand is noon, peak output of solar is noon, perfect match

>>11335825
>$12 energy bills
Ok retard

>>11335998
NOPE. That steep jump causes all kinds of problems by the way. Don't try to say we can just use batteries or something to shift it. It's ridiculously expensive, prohibitively so.
t. actually works in energy distribution.