/sci/ - Science & Math

What are the odds that NASA has a small space station orbiting the moon by 2024?

>>11322840
Considering we're probably waiting for Boeing and SLS, none.

>>11322840
pretty good, actually
I don't think there will be anybody AT the lunar gateway at that point but I think it'll be there

>>11322852
stupid tollbooth

>>11322820
Do we /sfg/ bingo card yet?

> 'kin JWST/SLS/ULA/Starlink amirite guys?
> Falcon 9 anime
> muh SSTO
> estronaut is teh gay lolz
> AESTHETIC
> Chinks insectoid race
> 'Hullo'
> Expanse LARP
> ELON
> Poo in the spaceloo

>>11322861
Oops I meant Starliner not Starlink

>>11322861
>estronaut is teh gay lolz
tell me I'm wrong

>>11322820
This meme didn’t age well...

>>11322820
>seeing meme I made a year ago as a /sfg/ theme

nice

>>11322869
yeah, they built a bigger shed-tent so they can build it out of scrap inside instead of out in the wind

>>11322820
>Post /sfg/ memes!

JELLO BABIES reporting in!

>>11322877
that's not a meme that's just extremely low effort trolling

>>11322820
Has any other autist played Surviving Mars?

>>11322852
When you put it that way, I suppose I can see it, yes.

>>11322859
This confuses the hell out of me. Will SLS 1B carry both Orion and the lander?

>>11322885
No but I've played Banished. Any similarities?

>>11322939
I haven’t played Banished myself, but I’d guess they’re similar. The intention is to establish a Martian settlement and eventually become independent of Earth imports with in situ resource exploitation and reproduction. Humans require water, oxygen, and electricity to stay alive which have to be established by drones prior to their arrival. They also require food but this is grown by humans as a job and they arrive with some food already to hold them off before agriculture kicks off.

>>11322885
Marsgate best mystery
Japan is a great sponsor except when trying to get a sustainable population
Needs radiation diaster

>>11322896
>Will SLS 1B carry both Orion and the lander?

I believe Boeing’s Artemis HLS bid will require this, but other bids involve launching lander segments on commercial LVs.

>>11322971
Sounds similar then, in Banished your colonists arrive in the woods with a winter's worth of food and stuff, but if you haven't gotten them to start hunting and chopping firewood by first snowfall everyone freezes and starves.

>>11322820
>Be SpaceX.
>Blow up a rocket for testing.
>Been announced for years.
>Yet the press still prints clickbait article saying "SpaceX rocket blows up, omg"

>>11322973
>Japan is a great sponsor except when trying to get a sustainable population

>elon is suddenly getting chased by blue checkmarks online
>they wanna sue hard
>he can't turn back now
https://youtu.be/h_SxVtf6Nk0 plays
>orbiting starships reveal railguns and laser emitters
>the muskrat has gone into full panic but is slowly gaining composure
>IDF is getting wrecked by starship bolts and lasers
>superpowered Jacob Rothschild fused with the rest of the elite families comes out of beresheet rocket
>"OY VEY YOU CAN'T DESTROY MY KALERGI PLAN"
>elon uses his economic status to gain literal power
>"FALCON PUUUUUUNCH"
>hits the minecraft villager with the force of a thousand raptor engines
>jacob evaporates
>battle space is enveloped in a fire
>hollywood and israel are no more
>world hunger solves itself
>racial tensions finally subside
>populations balance
>cancer finally gets cured comercially
>elon is retired, passes his position to an autist he deems worthy
>SpaceX finally freed the world
>humanity can now colonize more solar systems

>>11322885
A while ago, but I kept getting fucked over by polymer production and maintenance, and populations not moving between domes. I heard they have a proper terraforming update now too so they might have fixed a few things

>>11323068
Elon's investment in PR and his public image has paid off, he's judgement proof now. He smoked weed and called a guy a pedo without proof in front of a national audience and nobody can do sheit about it. What jury wants to hold back mankind's best hope for salvation? I think if he and Trump turned 5th avenue into their personal shooting gallery, Elon would come out ahead at this point

>>11323071
Polymer seems to be the easiest advanced resource to get to me, because you can trigger asteroid storms that leave large amounts (50+) littered around the map, and the polymer factories take only fuel and water. Plus, polymer upkeep is probably the least common upkeep.

>>11323081
Each of his "failures" (weed/pedo/420) simply makes him a more resilient man. His next payday from Tesla might make him $55 billion over the next decade. Then if SpaceX hits big time with Starlink, it will push him above $100B and in the reaches of Bill Gates and close to Bezos. Success of Starship with Mars colony will make him a trillionaire. He will then make SpaceX public and become the first Emperor of Mankind.

>>11322880
It is fully backed by NASA science and experiments. You'd know that if you could see, but your VIIPs has already fucked you over, brittle bones.

>>11323099
If he really wants mankind to be multi-planetary, he'll release Starship blueprints to even the chineese.

>>11323115
>It is fully backed by NASA science and experiments. You'd know that if you could see, but your VIIPs has already fucked you over, brittle bones.

NASA says bone loss in zero-g is basically solved by exercise. Also, there were NO experiments done on procreation and development of mammals in zero or partial gravity. We just do not know.

>Typically, astronauts would return to Earth with a total of 4 percent to 5 percent of their body mass gone.
>“Now, it’s a rule to have it more or less unchanged,” Barratt said. “We’re seeing insignificant changes in bone density. We’re actually seeing an increase in lean body mass and decrease in body fat.

https://spacenews.com/resistive-targeted-exercise-reversed-astronauts-bone-loss-study-finds/

>>11323126
Didn’t they recently send genetically modified mice up there? Mighty Mouse or something.

>>11323115
A single point mutation in some people that upregulates density in human bones has been found. most people who have it have bone densities and strength on par with grizzly bears
If you can convince people to allow this mutation to be introduced into the zygotes on a martian colony, even at 1/3 earth gravity they could still come back to earth with little issue
https://medicine.yale.edu/news/yale-medicine-magazine/unbreakable-bones-prompt-a-hunt-for-genes/
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa013444

>>11323123
they will assuredly get them one way or another sooner or later, and if he keeps them as close to his chest as he can and gets a few years lead time, he can use the money to develop the next gen

>>11323123
Mankind, not bugkind.

Hopefully superheavy lifters could somehow have at least semiautomated production lines to make them cheaper

>>11323139
Martians will probably end up with a host of genetic modifications. Why even assume they’ll go to Earth?

>>11323161
Well, you want to mobilize all resources to make it happen.
I'm sure he's thinking about it.

>>11323164
Humans can produce insane shit given the impetus. During World War 2, the US produced three 14,000 ton ships a day.

>>11323168
There's been three destroyers under construction at a dock I pass while crossing states and I swear those things have been there for 2 years. It's hard to even imagine the pace at which factories pumped out planes, bombs and bullets for WW2.

>>11323139
>let's make a spinning space station for our health
>"naw fuck that, lets grizzly up our DNA instead!"

>>11323126
Good luck with that.

>>11323175
Genetic enhancement makes people superior and is cost-efficient over time because the people can just fuck and spread the genes around.

>>11323168
There was also a shit load less red tape back then as there is now. Check out the speed at which they built a tank factory from a cow pasture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbEh401VtDo

>>11323175
Read the articles, it is a single gene mutation that offers a huge advantage
We can alter one gene in a zygote to eliminate an issue much more cheaply
>>11323165
same reason we wanna go to Mars, naturally they'll want to visit the homeworld firsthand

>>11323180
>Genetic enhancement makes people superior
Maybe in sci-fi but good luck with that IRL.

>>11323184
>Maybe in sci-fi but good luck with that IRL.

Please study genetics for five minutes.

>>11323182
>>11323180
>>11323139
>>11323187
Ever play Jenga? That is essentially how mucking around with genes work. You should see the heaps of failures that go on in real GM labs.

>changing man's genes for space instead of changing space for man
Wow, totaling fucking retarded and completely worthless idea. Maybe you should grow some people fish gills instead of forcing people to use scuba gear? Real thumbs up mentality you have there, anon.

>>11323190
Vast majority of mutations are actually neutral, not negative. And most of these beneficial variants occur naturally, too, just not in many people. It is not something entirely unproven.

>>11323191
Turns out its easier to change a small thing vs a infinite space

>>11323191
space will genetically change humans for the same reason why leaving Africa changed us, and for the better

>>11323191
>Maybe you should grow some people fish gills instead of forcing people to use scuba gear
Unironically yes.

>>11323184
>>11323190
Read nigga, read
One gene, one gene that is known how the mutation is supposed to work
We can alter with precision that one gene and replace it with a gene that offers an advantage in every environment
No mass change to the genome is needed
You're proposing an 80 degree lubricated slippery slope

>>11323200
>>11323202
>>11323204
>>11323205
>>11323212
>your brain on sci-fi

>>11323213
this the guy that altered those twins?

>>11323213
>Spewing bullshit without even reading what others have said
Fuck off back to twitter, retard

>>11323217
Yeah, and he also failed pretty fucking hard.

>>11323190
>You should see the heaps of failures that go on in real GM labs.

No one cares about some aborted embryos,

>>11323229
that what you get for trying to steal euro genes

>>11322820
>Fun edition. Post /sfg/ memes!

>>11323269
What a chad

>>11323274
*cringy, stuttering autist

>>11322975
No, Boeing's bid has the HLS on a dedicated cargo SLS launch. The co-manifested payload capacity of the crewed SLS B1B will most likely be used for "bundling" mission-specific payloads. It's not enough for a lander.

RIP the XS-1 "Phantom Express"

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1220075858150481922

>>11323305
they're just going to use the co-manifested payload ability of 1B to put modules/cargo on the Gateway or lunar orbiters or something

>>11323312
Or possibly logistics payload for Gateway/longer surface stays.
Like I said, mission-specific.

>>11323307
>Phantom Excess
ftfy

>>11323307
yeah, saw that coming

>>11323307
Oh no no no

>>11323307
Yet another cucking of the RS-25 engine

>>11323307
>uncut
Yikes.

>>11323307
It was a cool but stupidly niche concept, especially when there’s an abundance of small launchers available. I’m pretty sure DARPA has a problem with selling the commercial viability of it’s space projects, considering this happened only a year after SSL dropped out of DARPA’s satellite refuelling program.

>>11322869
I would't blame outdoor construction just yet . . .

>>11322820
Speaking of memes. I just don't understand this reusable launch tower meme.

The amount of money you can save from reusing towers isn’t enough to justify how much harder it makes it to complete the difficult launches that usually make money in the rocket launch world. I’m sure one day reusability will be more effective, but the truth is that when you have all the challenges that come with structural science in general, it’s almost always much more effective to throw away the tower after it’s done its job than to figure out how to make recovery part of the mission. I know of no major technology on the near term horizon that would change that.

Even if reusable towers are possible now, but when reliability is THE number one priority (in this case the rocket takes up 2/3rds of the cost and the actual tower only 1/3rd) it makes absolutely no sense. Like, look at this tower (pic related). This represents some of the most advanced technologies in the civil engineering world. Do you honestly think that such a complicated machine can be made tough and reliable enough to be reusable? I doubt it. Best example in my opinion is condoms, sure you could reuse them but making sure that they do not suffer a drop in reliability will cost a lot of money and time.

Just because some company made reusing towers popular, then that doesn't mean that we will have the sci-fi future of millions of towers per year. We'll be lucky to see more than a couple dozen per year. Dial down your expectations, don't buy into the 'reusability for launch towers' meme.

>>11323353
YES

>>11323357
This meme should've been expended. Hasn't been accurate for years now.

SpaceX have a Raptor in their vertical tripod test stand

>>11323357
What if we build a stockpile of expendable towers, keep them in some kind of tower depot?

>>11323361
I just don't understand this reusable meme meme.

The amount of money you can save from reusing memes isn’t enough to justify how much harder it makes it to complete the difficult posts that usually make money in the imageboard world. I’m sure one day reusability will be more effective, but the truth is that when you have all the challenges that come with social engineering in general, it’s almost always much more effective to throw away the meme after it’s done its job than to figure out how to make recovery part of the mission. I know of no major technology on the near term horizon that would change that.

Even if reusable memes are possible now, but when reliability is THE number one priority (in this case the madlibs take up 2/3rds of the cost and the actual copypasta only 1/3rd) it makes absolutely no sense. Like, look at this meme (post related). This represents some of the most advanced technologies in the social engineering world. Do you honestly think that such a complicated machine can be made tough and reliable enough to be reusable? I doubt it. Best example in my opinion is condoms, sure you could reuse them but making sure that they do not suffer a drop in reliability will cost a lot of money and time.

Just because some company made reusing meme popular, then that doesn't mean that we will have the sci-fi future of millions of memes per year. We'll be lucky to see more than a couple dozen per year. Dial down your expectations, don't buy into the 'reusability for memes' meme.

>>11323333
>satellite refueling
It was never actually about satellite refueling. Being able to 'service' satellites remotely means you can station 'servicing' satellites near other countries military satellites so they can perform 'preventative maintenance' without generating any orbital debris.

>>11323374
Are archives just meme-depots?

>>11323364
Pics?

>>11323379
https://twitter.com/bluemoondance74/status/1219866783743651850
https://twitter.com/bluemoondance74/status/1219814841877192705

>>11323374
kek

>>11323384
Literally cannot see a fucking thing, lmao

Is the vertical test stand capable of supplying enough propellant for a full duration burn?

>>11323384
The cows in the foreground makes the grainy pictures look more surreal than a fucking Pink Floyd album cover.

>>11323415
the cows are confused haha

>>11323418
nice meme

>>11323353
It's time to deliver.

>>11323434
It’s been delivered and installed...

The first batch of 16 science payloads to be sent to the Moon by Astrobotic and Intuitive Machines as part of NASA’s CLPS program:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/first-commercial-moon-delivery-assignments-to-advance-artemis

>>11323492
*in 2021

How accurate is this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRMDcC0QvFQ

>>11323504
eh, like a 4/10

>>11323166
no
china is for burning, not prospering
they deserve another century of humiliation

>>11323492
cool

>>11323504
Seadragon on paper works, actually making that engine bell even with today's advances in metallurgy would be very hard.

>>11322840
It will take them 30 years and 30 billion dollars to build the first capsule, so zero

>>11323574
Hit post accidentally before adding some context.

This is from Jim's Twitter:
https://twitter.com/JimBridenstine/status/1220124092336082946

>>11323553
not to mention what a combustion instability nightmare it'd be

>>11322820
>>11322840
Capitalism is the future of space travel. The first bases on the moon will be corporations there to harvest the metals and hydrogen

>>11322880
butthurt incel

Relatively few people know that Sierra Nevada of Dream Chaser fame, also do a lot of interesting R&D with the military for small rocket engines. The most interesting project they’ve undertaken is the development of rocket engines using their patented VORTEX® technology in partnership with the US Airforce. This technology involves using the combustion chamber’s flow field to cool the inner walls, which according to SNC allows the new engine to be simpler, smaller and lower cost. Furthermore, due to this technology the overall size of the engine is also drastically smaller in comparison with traditional combustion upper stage engines, making it as much as 50 percent less expensive to operate according to SNC. SNC are planning to utilise this technology commercially through their new VR35K-A engine, which will burn hydrolox and is envisaged to power “next generation” upper-stages. Thrusters using VORTEX® technology will also power their Dream Chaser lifting-body cargo freighter on-orbit; they will use propane and nitrous oxide for propellant.

http://www.milsatmagazine.com/story.php?number=1674678348

https://www.space.com/sierra-nevada-vortex-engine-dream-chaser-test-video.html

https://www.sncorp.com/press-releases/snc-vortex-rocket-engine/

Is For All Mankind any good?

>>11323620
This seems to be hard to fit preburners, especially oxidizer one on this
It looks promising on small rockets to lighten them

>>11323307
>Mariachi Music Starts

>>11323357
When your rocket costs $2 billion dollar to launch, reusable launch tower doesn't make sense. When the rocket cost $10 million dollar, reusable launch tower makes sense.

>>11322840
Low, better odds at this point that Bigelow's B330 will be orbiting the moon and operational before Gateway.

>>11323307
>Uncircumsized shuttle
OY

>>11323721
>better odds at this point that Bigelow's B330 will be orbiting the moon and operational before Gateway.

How detached are you from reality?...honestly, just asking...

>https://spacenews.com/spacex-presses-on-with-legal-fight-against-u-s-air-force-over-rocket-contracts/
Update on SpaceX lawsuit against AirForce.

>In the protest, SpaceX says Air Force evaluators considered the “technologies and capabilities of the Starship greatly exceed those of the other offered launch systems” and “would be game changing for national security space.” But the Air Force concluded that SpaceX required the greatest government investment in order to make Starship suitable for Category C launches. SpaceX argues in the complaint that Starship is no riskier than the other vehicles being developed by the LSA winners which SpaceX calls “conceptual launch solutions that have not been built, tested, launched or certified for any missions.”
>In portions of the complaint that were heavily redacted because they contained companies’ proprietary information, SpaceX contends that Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy would be less risky options for Category A/B missions than its competitors’ new rockets. But the Air Force excluded SpaceX from LSA funding because it did not believe Starship was an adequate Category C offering.
>SpaceX makes the case that having ready vehicles to fly Category A/B missions is a far more pressing priority than Category C vehicles. The Phase 2 procurement requires Category A/B missions to fly by 2022 whereas Category C missions don’t fly until 2025. SpaceX said this is a case of the Air Force letting “the proverbial tail wag the dog.”
SpaceX was excluded from AirForce contract because of Class C requirements, that won't be be needed until 2025. On top of that, SpaceX already meets Class A/B with Falcon9/Heavy, but other vehicles don't.

They have a strong case here.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gg5FeqxAlQ
>Federal leaders visit SpaceX in BocaChica

>>11323766
>They have a strong case here.

They really don’t, their protest already got dismissed by the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. Now their trying to push it through the California District court...

>>11323820
>their protest already got dismissed by the U.S. Court of Federal Claims
Because of jurisdiction issues, not because of merit.

>>11323825
>The Court of Federal Claims ruled that LSAs are cooperative agreements that cannot be legally challenged like standard procurement contract awards.

If Elon had any balls, he’d go to the GAO like Jeff did when he partially won his protest. He tries to push everything through that dodgy California District court, where most the officials either drive Teslas or are on his payroll.

>>11323307
>boeing killed the phantom express too
at this point im convinced that boeing is run by apocalpytic jews who are hell bent on keeping us stuck on this planet until dindus do us in

>>11322872
Kek

>>11323161
Based

>>11323504
The verniers shouldn't cut off, and the main engine plume looks shitty, but otherwise decent

>>11323844
Are you saying that he bribes public officials, like Don Corleone? Because that would be based. I want to see a Godfather with space-barons instead of wops

which lagrange point is best for a space station? are any locations superior to the rest? maybe the ones closest to the moon?

>>11323896
Science now recognizes that there are not just points but an entire Lagrange spectrum, please be more mindful in the future

>>11323896
L4 and L5 master race

>>11323844
>The Court of Federal Claims ruled that LSAs are cooperative agreements that cannot be legally challenged like standard procurement contract awards.
Yeah the Federal Court didn't have any power over it, so they transferred the case.

>“Judge Grigsby’s decision to transfer the case enables us to now proceed to the merits of our protest, to receive a legitimate and fair opportunity by an independent party to review the Air Force’s LSA award decision, and ultimately to ensure a level playing field for competition"

>>11323921
a station at those points would have a view of both the earth and the moon

>>11323896
they're all equally shit

>>11323844
>>11323923
Also GAO is a weaker option than Federal Courts. SpaceX shot the big gun by going to court directly. Federal Court transferred it to Cali Federal Court. GAO's powers are limited.

Federal Court > Cali Federal Court > GAO. Each one is more limited in its powers.

>>11323896

>>11323896
4 and 5 are better if you don't want to worry as much about stationkeeping, compared to 1, 2, and 3. Like putting a ping-pong ball inside a bowl vs balancing it on top of a basketball.

>>11323896
Earth-Moon? Earth-Sun? Earth-Mars? Which set are you talking about?

>>11323970
earth moon of course

>earth mars
fuck out of here

>>11323970
>Earth-Mars
Sun-Mars, anon
anyway EML1 has moon elevator potential
ES3 is the biggest flex

Have you lads voted?
https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/participate/name-the-rover/

>>11323896
Depends on the station's purpose
>Solar research
L1
>Outer planets Spaceport
L2
>General Spaceport
L3 L4

>>11323991
Not L3
L5

>>11323984
yeah

>>11323984
yep

>>11323984
no i dont care about one off rovers and landers anymore. robot base or gtfo.

>>11324028
>>11324032
Well don't make me guess. Which did you vote fer?

>>11324043
PROMISE

>>11324043
ENDURANCE

>>11324049
>>11324062
Tenacity or bust.

>>11323991
the sun-earth lagrange points are universally worthless except as like... sun-synchronous orbit++ at L1 and telescopes at L2
L3, L4 and L5 are useful as communications relays, and putting solar research satellites at all of them is important
the Earth-Moon lagrange points are actually useful near-term

Why do rovers on Mars survive for years but rovers on the Moon die within weeks?

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/first-commercial-moon-delivery-assignments-to-advance-artemis
Fucking disappointing. They're just giving Astrobotic and Intuitive Machines a straight up fucking hand out here. So yeah, they have some instruments for looking for volatiles, but they ain't gonna do much good on fucking static lander. And because they're carrying solar cells to test, they aren't even landing in a permanently shadowed crater where the volatiles oughta be. Volatiles such as water are pretty goddamn fucking important because they enable us to make propellant for a return home or even somewhere else.

>>11324076
I think its due to the difference in day/night cycles. Mars' is close to that of Earth's, while on the moon day and night last a month. Having 2 weeks of continuous darkness is straining for most rovers.

>>11324076
Temperatures are much more stable on Mars. Going through 14 earth days of unfiltered sunlight followed by 14 days of cold night sky is really hard on stuff.

>>11324080
it's a cheap throw it together mission to see if it works

>>11324096
Pretty much this, I interviewed with one of those companies a while back and was pretty unimpressed, I'd be surprised if they fly anywhere close to when they're scheduled to (if at all).

>>11324080
>They're just giving Astrobotic and Intuitive Machines a straight up fucking hand out here.

Both landers won the contracts to launch these payloads through a competitive process.

> So yeah, they have some instruments for looking for volatiles, but they ain't gonna do much good on fucking static lander. And because they're carrying solar cells to test, they aren't even landing in a permanently shadowed crater where the volatiles oughta be.

I think your piling unreasonable expectations onto what are just extremely small and cheap landers. The way things have been going for Moon landings recently, just landing in one piece would be an achievement. Bigger and more complicated things (e.g. rovers) will come later on.

>>11324080
the goal is to help start a lunar economy, supporting shitty landers is one way of going about it

>>11324115
Many HLS bidders are also using their CLPS missions to test and demonstrate the technologies for their HLS bids. Intuitive Machines is supplying the engines for Boeing's lander bid, for example.

>>11324096
see if fucking what works? If we want to find out if the Moon has extractable volatiles we need to send something to fucking permanently shadowed region(PSR). This ain't going in one, so we have to send a fucking nother one.
>>11324115
>>small and cheap landers
that can't do shit. The bang to buck ratio's way off. One rover would offer much more bang per buck than that those pieces of shit.
>>11324121
>>start a lunar economy
translation: we're throwing money at private companies just to throw money at them. I mean who really is the fucking customer here for this lunar economy? Basically just fucking NASA. You know what would help a build a lunar economy better than just throwing money at private companies? Showing that there is actually shit up there that's worth mining, like volatiles. You think a private company can say hey we want to mine lunar water and sell it for refueling satellites/as bottled water for dumb rich people, now give us a bunch of money. Oh and we don't no if it even exists and this has never been done before. No one, and I mean no one in their right mind is gonna invest in a company doing that. So it should NASA's fucking job to find and characterize that goddamn water, removing a lot of the risks to private companies.

>>11324133
the landers?

thankfully none of these things will happen since the economy/agriculture is screwed

fuck space travel.

>>11324134
If it they ain't flying into a permanently shadowed crater fuck em'

>>11324133
>technology demonstrations aren't useful because reeeee water

>>11324200
>reeee efficiency
>if it's not literally groundbreaking never-been-done-before science then it's not worth doing
the cancer killing spaceflight and science in general

>>11323620
There's actually a known effect in vortices like that causes separation of gas molecules by speed, with faster, hotter ones drifting towards the outer circumference and slower, colder ones staying in the core. So their idea, while looking good on paper, might actually have the opposite effect.

>>11322820
give it to me straight, what wagecuckery indentured servitude shit do I gotta do to hitch a ride to mars? I don't wanna live on this gay planet for much longer

>>11323984
why is turkey voting so much?
i bet one of our words means something rude in their language

>>11324309
>North Korea
>1

>>11324309
I bet it's a bot

>>11324324
Well I guess we know who it is.

>>11323766
>>11323820
>>11323825
After what we saw today about the Phantom Express, I think they have a compelling case. At minimum, they seem to have put a lot more work into Starship than Boeing ever did for the XS-1.

>>11323580
Yeah. Even though the hull is doable, that single giant bell is a bad idea. Though it does make me wonder if a similarly sized aerospike structure fed by multiple smaller combustion chambers would be a sensible alternative. Probably not in terms of efficiency, but for if some irrational reason you wanted the "engine" to be the same size.

>>11323896
>>11323921
>>11323951
L5 is the safest, because it trails the moon and so avoids more debris. L4 is the second-best choice. L2 and L1 are interesting for lunar space elevator reasons. L3 is where you put the magnetoshield for your expensive and delicate space economy (though for tourism reasons, it only triggers during damaging events so the Aurora Borealis and Aurora Australis keep being things).

>>11324415
L3 is on the opposite side of literally anything useful, it's only useful (in Sun-Earth) as a place to monitor the far side of the sun to make sure nothing weird happens over there whenever we aren't looking
it's too unstable to be useful for anything else

>>11324421
My bad, I'm retarded. L1 is the shield location. L3 is a very large communications relay.

>>11324426
isn't Sun-Planet L1 only useful to shield Mars or Venus from the solar wind? For Venus it's good to prevent any more hydrogen from escaping
oh yeah, and the lunar elevator needs to be at EML1

>>11324432
You could use it on Earth as well, but the reason to do it for Earth is only if the Earth's natural magnetic field isn't strong enough to shield everything we want shielded. Incidentally, Earth Orbit is where most of our space infrastructure is anyway so if field strength is an issue at greater orbits then there's a compelling economic case to set up an artificial shield.

>>11324439
I really want to know what happens if you drain the van-allen belts
aside from blowing up whatever you tried to do it with the first time around

>>11324443
And now I'm wondering what we could do with a much more powerful shield around the Jovian system. Could we de-irradiate that space? What would it take?

>>11324450
>de-irradiate
That's bad wording, I'll rephrase: could we prevent Jupiter's radiation belts from even being an issue?

>>11324450
>>11324460
no, Jupiter's magnetic fields strips particles off of Io, which is what causes all that nonsense
it has nothing to do with solar radiation

>>11323856
Or fundamentalist Christians just waiting for the lord to take us all in the rapture.
>Let me be your tool, oh lord. Just say the word!

>>11324470
Io Delenda Est
>-Callisto Gang

>>11324133
>translation: we're throwing money at private companies just to throw money at them. I mean who really is the fucking customer here for this lunar economy? Basically just fucking NASA.
A bunch of companies have payloads on the landers, not just NASA. For me, I'm still interested in a lander hosting a server.

That one Japanese lunar lander Hakuto is privately funded at $100m or more. NASA isn't the only game in town.

>>11323339
>tfw no taping a rocket together gf

>>11322840

You have no idea how obvious it it that you are underage.

If you were older than 18 you would know that NASA hasn't done anything noteworthy since the Hubble telescope (which is 30 years ago btw).

A space station orbiting the moon by 2024?
Are you kidding me?

I wouldn't bet any money on a NASA space station orbiting the moon by 2124, let alone 2024.

>>11324778
Listening to Bridenstines cope about how NASA will always be relevant in the post IFA conference was hilarious.

>>11324778

>>11324778
>>11324784
>>11324787

Oh look, the retardation brigade has arrived!

>If you were older than 18 you would know that NASA hasn't done anything noteworthy since the Hubble telescope (which is 30 years ago btw).

What are Spirit+Opportunity, Curiosity, Juno, New Horizons, Osiris REX, Cassini + Huygens, Stardust, Dawn etc? What’s your definition of “noteworthy” and why is it seemingly different to everybody else’s? Who’s doing anything more relevant in space?

> Listening to Bridenstines cope about how NASA will always be relevant in the post IFA conference was hilarious.

You mean the exact same conference where Elon admitted SpaceX have approximately zero other customers for Crew Dragon other than NASA? And Jim told him “you need to find some more”? That doesn’t sound like somebody who’s bothered about relevancy to me...and why would he be, when NASA currently has to prop up a large amount of the ‘commercial’ space industry? e.g. CRS, CLPS, new technologies such as in-space manufacturing etc

>>11324829
>What are Spirit+Opportunity, Curiosity, Juno, New Horizons, Osiris REX, Cassini + Huygens, Stardust, Dawn etc?

Toy cars and little probes are not noteworthy and have not advanced the only real measure of progress which is human spaceflight. The billions dumped on this shit could have brought a starship style program many times over if they weren't just grant chasing hacks controlled by politicians who want to secure muh jerbs.

>>11324840
>Toy cars and little probes

That’s pretty ironic, considering Curiosity is probably bigger than your actual car (although I doubt someone of your mental standing can actually afford one), also Cassini was fucking massive...

>>11324443
Well first you have to keep draining them because they'll just refill in a few months. But the main effect will probably be no aurorae. Look at all the REEEEEE over Starlink making a few dots in the sky, and imagine the anal distress over turning off the aurorae!

>>11324851

>>11324829
>>11324778
>Spirit+Opportunity, Curiosity, Juno, New Horizons, Osiris REX, Cassini + Huygens, Stardust, Dawn
Those are a shit and even Hubble isn't noteworthy. The last noteworthy thing NASA did was Apollo 17 and that was nearly 50 years ago. ISS is just a grant farm at this point, like JWST.

>>11324829
>What are Spirit+Opportunity, Curiosity, Juno, New Horizons, Osiris REX, Cassini + Huygens, Stardust, Dawn etc?

I dunno. Do you?

Or did you just google NASA missions and copy pasted them in? Because that's the most likely scenario tbqh.

>>11324876
Those are replicas ya doof.

>>11324897
Yeah I know, the point is they are scale replicas.

>>11324892
Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you?

>>11324882
If nothing ‘relevant’ has happened since Apollo 17, why are you still here? Your obviously not a space fan...

The autism here is astounding...

>>11324920
>WOW LOOK AT THESE PRETTY PICTURES WE GOT OF OTHER PLANETS I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE

Yeah that accurately sums up "space fans"

>>11324926
Where’s your curiosity, baby boy?

>>11324920
>why are you still here?
...
>being "here" for NASA
How deluded are you?

>>11324920
Ah sorry, thought you were one of those flat earth retards going "HURURURHUHUH, 'MARS?' MORE LIKE 'CANADA' HUHUHUHUHUHUHU HYUCK HYUCK HYUCK". Carry on.

"The greatest immediate challenge is, of course, the reusable earth-to-orbit shuttle vehicle. This will be a two-stage vehicle, consisting of a "booster" and an "orbiter," both capable of return to the launch site and repeated reuse."
- Von Braun,

>>11324943
God, if only von braun had been allowed to run the show. We could have colonies from venus to fucking jupiter by now.

When is Mk 4 going to have its first flight, roughly? What's the current timeframe?

>>11324956
They were happy with the tank test so it looks like all the pieces they are putting together now are for it. Probably a month or two.

>>11324309
I wonder why only 28 people voted in China.
Does NASA website blocked in China or what?

>>11324943
Small v in von. It's not a surname, it means "of" or "from".

>>11324964
Probably. Only Glorious Communist Party has made into space or something.

>>11324956
>>11324959
certainly not before this summer.

>>11324557
>>a bunch of companies have payloads on the landers
so NASA's fucking subsidizing these private companies to send god knows what crap to the Moon?
>>hosting a server
It takes light around 1 second to go from earth to moon or vice versa. In addition, because the distance is fucking huge, you need a fucking huge dish to get any appreciable bandwidth.

>>11322859
Using it for interplanetary missions makes it a tollbooth, if it's used as a refueling station for a lander it could actually be great.

>>11324989
>Oh you want to go to Mars?
>Well senator shelby just spearheaded a new bill that all missions must pass through gateway first

Gas NASA space war now

>>11324829
Don't bother, Anon. Those people aren't space fans. They're space hooligans. "My team's the best, everyone else is shit!"
Then they completely ignore the fact where all the dinero that enabled their "team" to do anything at all came from.

>>11324938
Boy I sure do love watching you guys get fucking orgasms over a pile of steel rings in a shed.
Remind me again, Crew Dragon's taken what, 9 years now? And you fanboys actually think that steel pile of crap will fly people to Mars in like 5.
You're wrong of course, but I don't expect you to ever admit that. So I'll settle for the smug satisfaction I'll feel when I'm inevitably proven correct 5 years from now.

>>11322820
Is it possible for someone to build a tiny rocket that can go to the moon?

>>11325069
>Anyone thinks Crew Dragon is suppose to go to Mars

>>11325069
>Crew Dragon's taken what, 9 years now
Funding issues, slow bureaucratic issues

>>11325075
he was talking about starship or is crew dragon currently a pile of steel rings in a shed?
also are there actually people who still believe starship will fly humans to mars in 2024 even after countless delays and the explosion of mk1?

>>11325105
I mean, they've already built 2 bulkheads that are missile grade only after a few months. Maybe later than 2024, but definitely before SLS actually flies.

>>11324882
>Those are a shit
Your moms a trashy whore, your fathers a weak coward and you'll never be as good as either one of them. Kys

>>11325105
>Omg a mock-up exploded

It’ll be ready when it’s ready. Grow out of this childish sports team mentality.

>>11325069
>NASA fud shaking

>>11324875
The belts are formed from particles that didn't hit the poles causing auroras. They don't supply the aurorae, so it shouldn't be affected by draining the belts.

>>11325122
mk1 wasn't intended to be a mock up.
remember when it was supposed to fly one or two months after the presentation? or that it would be fully assembled by then?
>it will be ready when it's ready
you mean like the SLS or the JWST?

>NASA stan vs. SpaceX cultists

>>11324920
>Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Newsflash: Saturn V is still the best, most powerful "spaceship" humankind ever built. Does this look like progress to you?

Imagine the best PC or the best phone being built in 1968. Would you defend this too?

>>11325152
You don’t understand engineering at all.

>>11325159
NASA stans are scared of being obsoleted. So they have to make lies about SpaceX. Look at reddit.com/r/SpaceLaunchSystem board to see how afraid they are. They'll delete any comparison to SpaceX. They'll claim Starship will cost same as SLS. They'll claim SLS actually cost less than $1 billion per flight. Its all fiction spurred up by fear.

>>11325172
i have never claimed i did. i just pointed out the delays which happened, and that it is borderline impossible for spacex to make the 2024 landing now.

>>11324964
Its not blocked last I was there. I'd guess its lack of knowledge of the vote or lack of interest.

>>11324968
I know, I usually don't mess that up

>>11325180
Delays always occur, but four years is plenty of time to get Starship into operation.

>>11325105
I still don't believe that Starship is going to fly humans to Mars in 2024
I do believe that it could fly itself to orbit in 2020

>>11325141
Good point. They'll still find a way to claim that something bad will come from draining the belts.
>>11325213
I agree, 2024 is a bit too soon for humans, what with Elon Time and all that. But they'll probably get an unmanned Starship on the moon then, with some sort of ISRU that proves to be insufficient to make enough fuel in the two years to the next window.

>>11325223
Moon ISRU is only barely useful for Mars ISRU

>>11325213
If it ever flies to orbit, its a game changer with that alone. If its reusable, its a double game changer. If its a inorbit refueling, that's triple game changer. If its going to mars, that's quadruple game changer. if it goes to mars, that's quintuple game changer. If it lands on moon and returns back, that's sextuple game changer. If it lands on mars and returns back, that's THE GAME changer.

>>11325231
I can't wait to see them break a few up over Texas, Columbia style

>>11325231
fuck I lost

>>11325223
How the fuck would ISRU on the moon make ANY sense? Raptor engines use methane which is provably producible from the Martian atmosphere but the moon doesn’t have an atmosphere.

>>11325234
>I’m bitter and five years old

>>11325224
>>11325246
derp I meant on Mars, brain fart

>>11325251
I mean, not with people on board.
They'll get to orbit in 2020 and blow up at least one and then learn something new about hypersonic airflow

Starlink delayed to monday

>>11325264
Methane production from simulated Martian atmospheres has already been performed. They’re going to use the Sabatier reaction.

>>11325271
Ah, then an 8 year old. Seriously, they've gotten falcon in orbit and shit, they probably know what they're doing

>>11325283
of course they know what they're doing, but they're trying to fly a toilet paper core down from orbit , and they want to control it by waving its arms around
nobody's done that before and I look forward to either being proven wrong and getting to watch SpaceX succeed, or being proven right, and getting to watch it disintegrate in the upper atmosphere

>>11325287
At the stage the starship is currently at, everything is up for redesign. They may scrap every single part of it long before it ever gets to orbit.

>>11325301
they are still trying to figure out how to make the bulkheads. i am not so sure if starship will make orbit this year

>>11325177
>Look at reddit.com/r/SpaceLaunchSystem
I'll take your word for it.

SCOOOT MUNLEY
https://youtu.be/od1i0V57iGs

>>11325177
>are scared of being obsoleted
I cannot believe people actually buy this crap.

>>11325177
>They'll claim Starship will cost same as SLS.
DESU It probably will. Remember "starship" has been in design for over 4 years at this point, and still has a long long way to go.

>>11325281
Yes, and the question is on what scale they can get out of it, with completely unattended equipment that also has to get the raw materials into the equipment. I've seen back of the envelope calculations that show they need to make a LOT of fuel each and every day to have enough in two years. And that's two years without the equipment breaking down.
It's a good reason for them to get the first attempt out there as soon as they can, because the chance of failure is sufficiently high.

>>11325329
This story reminds me of this song for some reason https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8cCDoDYgc0

>>11324920
>If you don't unconditionally support bad decisionmaking you aren't interested in space.
Jesus, this is like telling a fan they OBVIOUSLY don't like sports when they bitch that their home team is playing like shit, or complaining that how DARE you grade a student poorly because they've performed abysmally, you obviously don't care about education!

Fucking gigabrainlet piece of shit, people are critical of things they like when things they like let them down.

>>11325314
the entire point of their design process is that it's not waterfall and the entire production and design doesn't stop at a single hurdle.

Starlink delayed till monday due to weather issues.

>>11323504
I don't think it would be that submerged to start, but it does make for a more dramatic reveal when you find out just how fucking big it is.

>>11323620
I'd heard of this before, but hadn't realized they injected the oxidizer from the bottom! Wouldn't that require insane injection pressures to work against the natural flow of the gases down to the nozzle?

>>11323768
in other news, Nomadd finally sold his Boca Chica house to SpaceX. I think he was the last permanent resident. No more /ourguy/ on site, sadly.

>>11325791
In other news, they can now test faster with very little financial worry. No more 100 million collateral insurance.

>>11323574
It doesn't look too bad. Now if only orange rocket and its boosters actually had a reusability factor in it

>>11326030

>>11326030
>>11326051
Is there any reason as to why the Delta IV and SLS core stages look so similar? Or is it just due to convergent design?

>>11326056
>Is there any reason as to why the Delta IV and SLS core stages look so similar?

There’s two reasons:

>both built by Boeing
>both use hydrolox to power their core stages

So R&D-wise the designs are practically related, with Boeing’s hydrogen technology and experience gained through Delta being a big contributing factor to them winning the SLS contract.

How can we make Elon give us the answer to wether or not Russel's teapot exists?

Because he totally could have hidden a teapot in that damn roadster's trunk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk%27s_Tesla_Roadster

seriously, think about it

Why do they need the nose cone for the testing down in Boca?

If you keep having launch anomalies, at some point does a successful launch become an anomaly?

I don't like the word because people use it as (desired/undesired) instead of (regular/irregular)

>>11326340
an anomaly is a deviation from the predicted

>>11326030
I miss the old-new-old logo

>>11326399
they've used the worm recently, one of the recent Falcon 9 launch patches had it

>>11326399
>>11326409
found it

>>11326399
>.jpg
>looks like a picture of coronavirus
disgusting

>>11326415
your file size suits your small hands

>>11326414
Looks like it has a face.

>>11326426
at least I don't have an enormous grabbing edge to keep the cheeto stains off

>>11324309
>1 vote from Greenland
kek

>>11325572
>it's not that i hate aspect of spaceflight but one thing i fanboy over, i just hate poor decision-making
>also every single thing in spaceflight was a poor decision except the one thing i fanboy over

Anyone hear about the explosion at Firefly's rocket stand the other day?

>>11326821
https://twitter.com/Firefly_Space/status/1220492329469054977?s=19

>>11326821
Wasn't much of an explosion. More of a gust of fuel and a hasty shutdown.

>>11325829
Well it has reusability factors in it. They‘re just not using them :^)

>>11323081
>investment in PR
literally all you need to see is the first rocket booster landing
or better yet, the double booster landing from the falcon heavy test flight

Because that image alone has made him immune to any attempts at criticism until at least one other company/space agency can catch up with this advantage.

>>11324309
>https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/participate/name-the-rover/
romania almost 8k votes now, seems like many of us want to mars

We have overtaken the russians, soon we`ll overtake the canadians

>pre selected names only
>tfw can't fill in "Hitler did nothing rover" and sic /b/ on it

I guess online polls have learned their lessons lul.

I want to actually go somewhere other than Earth one day. What should I get a degree in and work in?

>>11327277
Forget the degree, if the whole starship thing pans out they will need people who can build shit and you will need to pay a substantial sum. This means you can't afford to be in debt and you need to learn a skilled trade, preferably several.

>>11327277
You`ll need a pilot licence first to show that you can handle the stress of space travel.

>>11327303
That's ridiculous, a scuba divers licence and some dive time would be infitinely more relevant and far fucking easier to obtain.

>>11327306
why not both?

>>11327303
>You`ll need a pilot licence first to show that you can handle the stress of space travel.

Harrison Schmitt got his PhD at 29 in 1964, learned how to fly a jet in 1965, and then bumbled around the moon in 1972 at 37. I was thinking something geological so I can play prospector on the moon and survey deposits for future ISRU, or on Mars I guess, but I don’t know if and when anyone would actually be doing that.

>>11327298
Like what? Electrical engineering? Metallurgy?

>>11327346
Like forgetting about a fucking higher education, how many times do people have to tell you these expensive bits of paper are fucking worthless? Engineering problems can and will be outsourced to a 14 minute time delay. Electrician, plumber, welder, commercial construction, mining, machinist, etc... Are what you need to consider because the amount of workers needed will massively outnumber the amount of stem faggots and getting into space in your lifetime is a numbers game.

>>11327333
>I was thinking something geological so I can play prospector on the moon and survey deposits for future ISRU, or on Mars I guess

Again, they won't send a team of geologists, they will send a crew of drillers/miners who will dig where they are told and relay their results back to geologists.

>>11327363
>Electrician, plumber, welder, commercial construction, mining, machinist, etc... Are what you need to consider because the amount of workers needed will massively outnumber the amount of stem faggots and getting into space in your lifetime is a numbers game.

I guess so. I like mining the most.

>>11327303
>tfw can‘t even take average rollercoasters without spewing my guts out
Guess I‘ll leave the stars to you guys.

>>11327328
New Boeing suits looking good!

>>11327379
My personal top two guesses for needed work would be welding and electrical, but yes mining is definitely a good choice. Ultimately you will likely need multiple of these kinds of skills to be in the early stages, why send an electrician when you can send someone who can do electrical work, weld and do pipework?

>>11322840
Depends:
>Trump starts a dick measuring contest with china+russia about it and launches everything with Falcon heavy
That could happen.
>NASA tries to get SLS ready and launching shit there on their own
Not going to happen.

>>11327394
Mining is within my personal interests, but I don’t know what else I could do or how long it would take to become qualified for it.

>>11327400
>dick measuring contest
What the hell is Russia doing besides being the launch system for any country with dollars to spend?
China is busy getting to the kiddy pool that is LEO after their first flotation device deflated rather spectacularly.
There's no space race between country anymore and there won't be one this decade either.

>>11327404
Its a long game my dude, you aren't going to space for 10-20 years even on the most optimistic timescale since the first few waves will be stacked with the best of the best of the best of the best alpha chad types. But they will run out of those in fairly short order which is where normies with the right skills come in. That is plenty of time to learn multiple relevant skills which is what I plan to do. Worst case scenario you never go to space for whatever reason, you still have zero debt and large pool of skills to draw on making you a very valuable employee. Consider taking up diving, the closest you can get to an EVA and will be looked upon very favourably. There are other things like that you can learn and do in your free time that would be a big bonus and still fun and or beneficial, soldering/basic electronic repair, hydroponics/aquaponics, metal fabrication/welding, 3d printing both designing objects and operation/maintenance of printers, shit like that.

>>11327410
most countries 5-10 years away, Blue Origin..20

>>11327306
It is a form or required gatekeeping. Getting a scuba license is easy and you don't need to be as smart to get it. You also don't need to be massively dedicated to get it. However, for a pilot's license, you have to be smart and massively dedicated to get it. The various personality traits a pilot has compliments the type of safety procedures and jobs you'd be doing in space.

Keep in mind we are just talking about a generic scuba license. There are others that do require a great deal of dedication to get and more intelligence overall. Only, that still lacks a lot of what is needed for space.

>>11327328
Pilot's license + Master Scuba Instructor certification or Course Director certification would be best.

>>11327422
It could be worse. It could be my country where the "aerospace industry" consists of designing hybrid fuel rockets for sending up small satellites.

>>11327420
That’s fine, I guess. I just want to do *something* up there. It’s the birthright of humankind. It’s drawn me since I was a wee lad.

>>11327440
Good luck senpai, maybe I'll see you up there if we make it.

>>11327177
the names you can vote on were selected by a grade school essay contest

>>11327422
SLOW AND STEADY

>>11327428
>However, for a pilot's license, you have to be smart and massively dedicated to get it.
You also have to pass a health test. In a previous job, two or three co-workers got on a pilot's license kick. One of them found out that he had some kind of heart murmur that would have probably caused a massive coronary when he was in his 50s. He had to go all the way from Texas to Boston for a surgeon to stick a wire up his arteries and zap the inside of his heart.
Don't underestimate health issues, Richard Garriott was very sad when he found out that his eyesight ruled him out, doubly so since he was a NASA brat as a kid. (that's about 1000 times cooler than being an army brat) He was able to get lasik or something, making everyone happy enough for him to ride a Soyuz to ISS as a space tourist.

Whats the best 2020 Rover name and why is it Endurance?

Just rolls right off the tongue so much better than all the others

https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/participate/name-the-rover/

>>11327748
>health
Yeah, that too!

>tfw 20/20 vision requirement so you can go into microgravity and get VIIPs after 6 months

>>11327429
>aggressive
>general

>>11327751
overused name really

>>11327830
It's fitting though

>>11327751
for me it's PROMISE because i know that they are going to break it

>>11327837
desu it should be Promiscuity, rhymes with Curiosity

>>11327751
Endurance is overused as >>11327830
pointed out and it would be extremely awkward if the rover failed after a short period of time. I voted “Vision” because 20/20 vision lol.

>>11326170
btu then it will be Elon's teapot and not Russells'

>>11327839
Only if it drills a lot of holes.

>>11327841
>I voted “Vision” because 20/20 vision lol.
Shit, that's pretty clever, but not so for say just regular news in the future "Mars Rover Vision discovers interesting new blah blah July 24, 2025..."

But also, if Endurance does end up out-lasting even Curiosity then it will be a most fitting name. Endurance is a hardy name all together.

I like Tenacity better. Same meaning, but "Curiousity and Tenacity" has a better ring to it.

>>11327851
Tenacity > Endurance

>not naming the rover Mark Watneys lawn mower
boring

Fuck those polls, let's get a few anons to go to mars on starships and slap a giant nametag with the name "bumsickle" or something. Digits replace the name i suggest

I feel that another wave of moon landing deniers are coming.

>>11328183
why

>>11328186
There's a thread about it on /tv/ which I feel is going to "inspire" some jackasses to shitpost here.

Martian cities need to have anaerobic digesters to process organic waste into methane.
It will be far more economic once set up than the sabatier reaction for a major spaceport
Though that needs a functioning and thriving martian arcology first

>>11328195
I just went there to check (and report lol) and god damn /tv/ is a shithole

>>11328196
not enough biology to turn into organic waste, anon, I don't think you understand how many tons of methane and LOx you need

>>11328196
I wonder what's the ratio of tons of waste to tons of methane, and the energy required to process that per ton of propellant produced compared to the sabatier process. I think the primary advantage of the sabatier process is that it requires little equipment set up for it and that it also produces oxygen. Interesting idea though.

>>11328198
It is, but it's that shit coming over here that I'm worried about and having to argue against the same false points over and over again. All while the mods take their sweet time to clean it up.

>>11328207
>I'm worried about and having to argue against the same false points over and over again.
just don't

>>11328200
>>11328204
It might work for a full city of a million or more due to waste output, but not likely huge amounts compared to demand
Hydrothermal liquefaction would be useful at that scale for making feedstock and recycling plastics and organic waste
But both need full cities

>>11328226
Could it work for smaller settlements as a way to produce a secondary source of methane to use for non-return-vehicle applications? Such as a methane powered rover or settlement heating?

>>11328200
>it's the year 2040
>millions of people live on Mars for the sole purpose of shitting enough material to fuel spaceships
imagine

>>11328230
I’d think you should keep all produced biomass there.

>>11328288
>be me, martian
>my job is to find find people to fill the position of poop producer
>do this by putting advertisements out
>mrw I titled it "shitpostings"

>>11328361
>department of the air force

why is that? shouldn't it be a separate branch?

>>11328361
Looks both too busy and too clean to me. I'd expect that the globe-chevron-orbit element would be simplified and made it's own insignia. But it's usable overall. I would like something like this to be used. It's a little more unique while signaling it's USAF heritage.

>>11328361
Larping as starfleet is so fucking cringe.

>>11328376
that be how it is. Marines are still under the AF too.
Air Force used to be under the Army!
US mil can be weird

>>11328196
fuck them shit pools, what the colony needs is this to process all waste into simple elements and gasses, ready to be reused

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_gasification

>>11328380
this
especially since at the moment 40k seems to be the more realistic version of the future

You have your own starship. How would you decorate it?

For me:
>a gaming PC in the cockpit so I can play Gmod while drifting in space
>a bathroom
>a poo-to-methane conversion device
>a few pods to store various AI humanoids or something
>a sofa
>a few Romanesque paintings and sculptures

>>11328403
I just realized Zoey from L4D was in the left render. Also realized there's no guys wtf

>>11328407
>Also realized there's no guys wtf
Lesbian space colonies.

>>11328361
>yfw starfle- space force contracts musk to sell them a starship
>yfw they name it enterprise
>yfw a captain named kirk commands it
what is the significance of the stars though? are they constellations?

first michilen star in space when

>>11328413
I want a starship to replace the modules on the ISS and have it host new crew and science models. We could turn this ISStarship into a mothership or something

>>11328200
>>11328288
>>11328302
You can make methane from all organic waste, especially from manures, and also get high-nitrogen fertilizer out of the deal. The latter of which is highly valued in a place where growing your own food would be paramount. The neat thing is that the microbes are doing the major amount of work. Once you have built the system and have proper amounts of input, you can get more energy out of the system than work-energy you are putting into it. Meaning, since humans are not actively working to convert organic waste to methane and fertilizer you get quite a large net benefit of energy. It happens in such large quantities that it will more than likely outpace other Mars methane generation methods for quite some time.

There are a few calculators floating around online that allows you to calculate how many people or animals can produce x amount of methane. Start up costs can range from next to nothing up to government funded power plants. India (no surprise!) is the forerunner of biomethane digesters, using masonry-lined holes in the ground and only using it as cooking gas and fertilizer. Germany is all tech tech tech with it making gas for home heating, electric, and fertilizer. There are now many turn-key companies in the USA selling small scale and mid-farm scale biomethane digesters; mostly for gas and fertilizer production.

Scrubbing the gas to move H20, CO2, and HS2 is thankfully pretty simple. All the energy needs of one of these biomethane digester plants is produced by itself, with an abundance of methane to spare.

>>11328403
>How would you decorate it?
If it would survive max Q on launch, I'd make it look like a Reaver ship from Firefly.

>>11328403
Giger's Necrognome style just to fuck with people's heads should I get drunk and accidentally crash with some asteroid.

>>11328430
I seriously doubt the amount of methane produced will be anywhere close to the amount required, starship takes what like 6 or 700 tonnes of liquid methane. And that's just for one and they are talking about hundreds/thousands which is really what is needed to ship large amounts of people and material there.

>>11328430
Also pretty sure the nitrogen fertiliser product will be unusable for food because of prions, the bacteria won't be removing those.

>>11328452
Anon, we use humanure already all over the planet and have been doing so for countless generations. Also, you do need to pasteurize it, because of bacteria, that's a given. Even as a given, some companies don't then the retarded farmers spray it all over lettuce before shipping it out. There's been a few outbreaks of E.coli because of monumental retardation like that in Germany already. Well, people fuck up everything so there's that.

As far as prions go,

>According to the EPA, “Can biosolids carry the pathogen that causes mad cow disease? It has been found that Bovine Spongiform Encephalopa thy (BSE), or Mad Cow disease, is caused by a prion protein, or the resistant beta form of protein. The pathway for transmission is through the ingestion of tissue from infected animals. There has been no evidence that the BSE prion protein is shed in feces or urine. The primary route for infection, the use of animal carcasses in animal feed, is banned in [the US]. Thus there should be no risk of BSE exposure from biosolids.”41

>>11328449
The system itself should be used, but that doesn't mean it really needs to be used to make rocket fuel. It can still be done for that purpose though. The resource is best used in a cyclic manner as in that image >>11328430

>>11326056
Delta IV was built drawing from Shuttle technology (hydrolox booster tanks, insulation, and an engine literally designed to be a more powerful and cheaper RS-25 replacement). SLS was also, obviously, built drawing directly from Shuttle.

>House NASA auth bill calls for:
>crewed Moon landing by 2028 (rejecting the 2024 Artemis plan) and crew to ORBIT (not land on) Mars in 2033. LOTS of specific direction on how to do it. Extends ISS to at least 2028 (not 2030) unless can transition to alternate platform sooner.
what the fuck is going on

>>11328491
And both are being built by the same company: Boeing.

>>11328515
It’s just the House being retarded, as usual...

>>11328515
I doubt NASA would make those dates, but I want to see them honestly try.

the house going full holocaust on nasa's moon plans
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1220841666514497536

>>11328529
Yeah, may as well start building my own fucking rockets at this rate.

>>11328529
Authorisations without Appropriations is useless, it’s all just hot air.

>>11328529
So, whats the "Moon to Mars" program exactly? Artemis? Is it just "set up LOPG and then put a flag on Mars"?

>>11328546
It’s something that doesn’t exist...

>>11328547
So are NASA's plans scrambled again? Or is Artemis still ongoing?

>>11328550
Artemis is ongoing and funded, these are just proposals by the House on what they think NASA should be doing.

>>11328553
Good. I just want NASA to get a plan and stick with it until the end. NASA would be dead to me if Artemis gets canned.

>>11328529
Absolutely shoahed

>>11327751
I voted for Promise. Promise that it's the last fucking rover and the next thing after that is going to be a manned mission.

>>11328558
Maybe we all should write angry letters to these parasites then, berating them and asking them to support Artemis:

https://science.house.gov/subcommittees/space-116th-congress

>>11328593
Fire up those email accounts folks and give these congressional parasites a piece of your mind! Remember to bully them into supporting Artemis and tell them to ditch the Mars delusions!

>>11328619
>Write your representatives!

Entirely pointless excecise.

>>11328529
Boeing got an early valentine's day present. What a load of crap the bill.

>>11328380
Not wanting to LARP as Starfleet is cringe.

>>11328515
>>11328529
>LOTS of specific direction on how to do it
Fucking incompetent congress. You specify a goal/mission first. Then let NASA find out how to best service that.

>NASA wants ownership of vehicles
MEANINGLESS. You throw away billion dollar rockets each launch.

>>11328656
>Fucking incompetent congress. You specify a goal/mission first. Then let NASA find out how to best service that.
But then money can't be funneled to "key constituents".

>>11328529
>NASA
Irrelevant. NASA exists solely for grant farming.

>>11328529
https://spacenews.com/house-introduces-nasa-authorization-bill-that-emphasizes-mars-over-moon/

>>11328724
I don’t understand why they’d put forward something that would be instantly DOA in the Senate and vetoed by the White House, mainly because Artemis is Pence’s baby.

>>11328778
NEW THREAD
>>11328778

>>11328742
Because this is a bill Boeing has been lobbying for. It won't be dead at the senate.

>>11327410
>What the hell is Russia doing besides being the launch system for any country with dollars to spend?
Dual/tripple launch a modified Soyuz, decently large upper stage and lander to land on the moon.
Maybe pushing Angara/Baikal series further in the process.