/sci/ - Science & Math

Have we thought of how Concentrated solar power could be implemented? Since the sunward side of the inner solar system reaches 248 degrees at earth alone. It would be heavy but you could harvest more power from sunlight with less degradation and it would make a good sunshield. It could provide mass power to factories and habitats in space or even particle beams for long distance propulsion. Or possibly at the lunar poles for long duration power for propellant or colonies.
How would we implement this realistically?

>>11317472
>According to CAST's Vice Chief Designer of the next generation crew spacecraft, this prototype will be on a 3 days mission in orbit ending with the spacecraft making a high speed re-entry test from a high elliptical orbit (a la Orion EFT-1). The spacecraft will have a LEO version (reported at ~14 tonnes) and a BLEO version (~21 tonnes) that will only differs in the service module; this prototype is of the BLEO version.

>>11317478

>>11317472

>The Salyut 3, although called a "civilian" station, was equipped with a "self-defence" gun which had been designed for use aboard the station, and whose design is attributed to Nudelman. Some accounts claim the station was equipped with a Nudelman-Rikhter "Vulkan" gun, which was a variant of the 23 mm Nudelman aircraft cannon, or possibly a Nudelman NR-30 30 mm gun. Later Russian sources indicate that the gun was the virtually unknown (in the West) Rikhter R-23.
What would be the ideal "self-defense" gun for space stations or bases?

>>11317472
China should be banned from all spaceflight.

>>11317494
Not a projectile weapon for sure, as the kickback would be a serious issue in zero-G
An EMP device could damage station electronics and disable life support systems
so it would have to be a Laser or Tazer of some sort

>>11317505
>Not a projectile weapon for sure, as the kickback would be a serious issue in zero-G
Some rocket projectile like a gyrojet or CKEM could get around that issue.

>so it would have to be a Laser or Tazer of some sort
That would depend on how sensitive an enemy's docking instruments are to such things.

>>11317494
>>11317505
>>11317511
>What would be the ideal "self-defense" gun for space stations or bases?

Basically, all your weapons platforms are going to be some sort of missile or laser platform. They will more than likely be made to overheat and become unusable after a single shot. Point defense will always be a projectile-based even when there's reaction mass/gyro needed to stabilize the ship/station/base after each shot. Payloads for things like missiles can be anything from sand cannons, to lasers, to railguns, to a kinetic ninja bomb. Laser hardpoints would have their lasers act like firearm rounds where all the laser gets used ones then ejected as spent brass and replaced with another laser. This is because the heat generated from fires a weapons grade laser is so much that you can't cool it properly in a quick amount of time for use as a good weapon.

EMPs are pretty much worthless.

>>11317494
>>11317505
>>11317511
Gyrojet or mini recoiless rifle
Or autocannon with good shock absorbers

>>11317511
>Laser
In space you don't need to burn driectly through the enemy ship, overheating its fuel tank can be sufficient.
Plus targeting is pretty simple and there is no recoil.
>gyrojet
That has the downside of low muzzle velocity and it's possible to track the projectiles, meaning you can evade the projectile.
>missiles
They would work, but since there is no such thing as stealth in space, ypur enemy might shoot them down before they hit their target.
Lasers are especialy effective here as they can reliably hit a moving target at long ranges and overheat the small missiles to the point of explosion within seconds.
>nuclear weapons
Pretty ineffective since they rely on an athmosphere that transmitts their shockwave and they are kind of heavy, meaning they need a large missile to carry them wich is easy to spot and destroy.

>>11317528
Missiles are probably the safest bet for stationary structures. Actually flying ships like Starship or Dream chaser could work with shit like railguns though.
They already fly, so they could probably handle the forces exerted by launching a rebar pole into some chinese spy satellites.

>>11317538
Good write up, but in "self-defense" powerful weapons aren't needed. One doesn't need an anti-tank gun to fend off burglars, just a small pistol. Just something wrong enough to deter a foreign spacecraft from wanting to dock to your station when you don't want to. Something like a lower power laser or projectile weapon can do. Something that's strong enough to seriously damage external hardware such as radiators or sensors while being small and handy enough to bolt on anywhere without much mass penalty could be desirable.

>>11317557
>Just something STRONG enough
Ooops.

>>11317557
the ultimate chad move would be to release a globe-spanning net of undetectable, tiny debris that would destroy any launched spacecraft unless you knew exactly where the gaps in the net were.

>>11317557
Ok, a laser with 1-10 kW and infrared long range targeting system should be sufficient for that purpose.

>>11317569
A weapon like that probably exists somewhere in the US or China for WW3 if space superiority couldn't be achieved.

>>11317474
Well you'd probably swap out a conventional steam turbine for a Stirling engine+alternator, you keep the cold loop in perpetual shade and concentrate all of your sunlight onto the hot loop end. You'd probably have to send it up in multiple large parts, personally I'd try to figure out some kind of reflector material that was flexible but didn't disintegrate with prolonged UV exposure. You would want a cheap superheavy lift rocket to perform the transfer of materiel from Earth to a parking orbit, the stages could simply be parked in a line based on the steps of assembly. When that's done another superheavy lifter volley would bring up packages of extra supplies and other sundry construction materials, and a final volley would carry several large expandable habitat modules like Bigelow or SNC are working on to form a semi-permanent base for a large construction crew. Robots and boom arms can do much of the heavy lifting work but the delicate touch of humans will still probably be required for a lot of it, ideally spars to hold reflectors and reflectors themselves can be built to unfurl from a more compact state, making assembly easier, reflectors will start out turned away from the sun. Once all components of the powerplant are assembled you could start by turning just a few reflectors towards the sun to test it, then bringing it fully online over a period of time. The habitats could be moved into position and permanently attached to the powerplant so that a small crew can remain on site to both monitor and repair the plant if necessary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqIapDKtvzc Here's a good breakdown of stirling engines.

>>11317569
>the real story behind Starlink

>>11317494
an AR-15, and some footholds or magboots or something to brace against the hull with

>>11317615
You could probably go even smaller in caliber, just a 5mm or 3mm will be fine so long as the round is dense. Use copper or teflon jacketed tungsten, double the case size and make the gun "recoilless" by ejecting that extra spent propellant to the rear. It's propellant inefficient but in this manner the weapon can counteract the majority of it's own recoil without needing any other equipment. Use polycase or CT cases instead of brass, this cuts cost, weight, and volume used to hold the ammo, stations and vehicles in space already use robust heat management systems so add a cooling jacket to the barrel and flush it with liquid ammonia. You can overbuild the chamber of the gun because it's going to be relatively very low caliber, so it can feed ammo which would normally be +p+ in a normal environment.

ESA are doing the thing holy shit
https://twitter.com/DJSnM/status/1219286417617981440
http://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/Space_Engineering_Technology/ESA_opens_oxygen_plant_making_air_out_of_moondust
>>11317641
yeah but AR-15 is super light, already exists, and dirt cheap
as is 5.56

>>11317641
oh, and pressures are limited by the physics of copper to about 70k psi, which is near where 5.56 already is

>>11317645
>>11317649
It isn't space optimal and UV eats polymer up dummy quicc, you don't need a rifled barrel, you don't need spitzer type bullet shapes, you can jacket a round in materials other than copper, no modern gun needs a brass case. Everything costs lots of money to send to space, thus it would be better to send up a piece of equipment better suited to the environment in which it operates.

>>11317663
FUCK YOU I NEED TO TEST MY VACUUM RATED GUN LUBRICANT

>>11317570
>1-10 kW
That reminds me, I think the Navy's laser weapon system is 30kW. I'm thinking you'd need several lasers that powerful, aimed at the debris, in order to vaporize it. That is, ground based lasers, not space based. Beam width is reduced quite a bit due to the inverse square law.

>>11317663
>you don't need a rifled barre
I think that's still needed for accuracy as there could still be slight tolerances on the projectiles resulting in their center of mass not being on the "shooting axis" of the projectile. A real example of this would be unguided upper stages (such as solid propellant ones). Those need to be spun to maintain orientation.

>>11317494
Roman short-sword.

>>11317689
Space triremes

>>11317494
IT WILL BE MELEE ONLY!!!

>>11317677
Using a laser in space is quite different from using it within an athmosphere.
There isn't any ray-scattering going on and none of it gets blocked, meaning as long as you can focus it tightly enough to hit your target, all eneregy from the laser hits the target.
In addition to that your target is only cooled by radiating heat, it doesn't have any airflow cooling it.
Since that only realy gets effective at high temperatures, your target will overheat eventualy and due to the higher distances involved the laser can fire for a longer period of time.

>>11317609
Supercritical co2 could run the same power output in small package as a steam turbine and make up the primary generator with stirling engines using the excess heat from that or if your looking to squeeze as much energy as possible, use seebeck effect plates to absorb more waste heat and radiate the excess in radiators on the shade side
3 stages would be complicated but it could power a small city/orbital factory and just might justify it if the power demands were high enough
Lunar power plants could use silicon from the regolith to store massive amounts of heat within and sustain a facility when it gets shaded. Lunar regolith could be used to make part of the mirrors

>>11317727
>be me, a Selene
>minding own business in a mooncrete castle
>occasionally have to send out soldiers to scare off Terran squatters
>they think they're manifesting destiny in space
>squatters are easily scared off by finely crafted Lunar titanium spears
>eventually they came back in numbers
>mrw they bring out a space trebuchet

>>11317764
Build an orbital ballista to shoo them off

>>11317757
Inverse square law happens everywhere even for lasers, regardless of location.
Lasers generate crazy amounts of heat. Clearing orbiting debris would need to be done from the ground.
Clearing orbital debris is going to be a shitshow.

>>11317772
As long as you are able to focus the beam tighter than the target it doesn't realy matter how far you are from the target if you are in a vacuum.
Under these conditions 100% of the beam hits the target, be it 10 cm or 10 km from the source.
Only when the target is small and far away enough that a part of the beam doesn't hit the target anymore, the inverse square law affects the total power of the laser that hits the target.

>>11317505
>kickback would be a serious issue in zero-G
After playing ksp I'd rather worry about the bullet orbiting around and shooting my own ass

>>11317812
>Under these conditions 100% of the beam hits the target, be it 10 cm or 10 km from the source.
You don't even know what t he fuck "inverse square law" is do you? lol

>>11317764
An easy homestead-defense weapons could be as simple as a pair of wheels to accelerate small rocks and a barrel to aim them.

bruh, look at this dude..

OHNONONONO HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

>>11318000
Makes sense. China is somewhat of a newcomer to spaceflight and wants domestic space capabilities. So it makes sense that they're launching frequently to quickly match it's contemporaries.

>>11318004
>>11318000
now post the one by tonnage

HHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
LOOK AT THE TOP OF HIS HEAD

>>11317912
As long as 100% of the beam hits the target, 100% of the energy hits the target.
Only when the beam diameter is larger than the target, the inverse square law applies as less and less of the beam hits the target.

>>11318009
Now that Electron exists, America's number's are permanently inflated.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1219340904407977984

>>11318021
That's physically impossible unless the laser diode is touching the object. The, "beam," is just the main body of energy, but never all of the energy and not 100% of the, "beam."

>>11318041
Can one of us buy that?

>>11318041
whoa, grimes' vagina is that big?

>>11318045
A laser beam diverges only ever so slightly, unless you point it at a tiny object that is ridiculously far away, the entire beam hits the target.
Even if it diverges to 1 m, it can still hit a capsule with nothing passing by it as the capsule is larger than 1 m in all directions.
There aren't any significant losses involved on the way to its target and you don't have to worry about ballistics or travel time, wich is why lasers are so interesting.
(unless you want to hit something as far out as the moon or so, but that's not relevant for a self defence scenario)

>>11318093
>unless you point it at a tiny object that is ridiculously far away
lol Anons here are talking about hitting orbital debris no closer than 100km away, at the very best, and 1,000km away at worst. You have no clue what you are even talking about and have been taking sci-fi cock up your ass for far too long, kid.

Anyone legit think there will be a large enough base on the moon to require a major power source? Nuclear like large RTGs seems like a good start since excess heat will be more difficult to get rid of in a vacuum.

>>11318096
I thought the point was self-defence, not cleaning up debris.

>>11318093
the beam "cools off" as it expands and travels outwards

>>11318120
The fuck are you talking about?
How the hell should photons lose energy in a vacuum?

>>11318120
The entire energy still hits the target. It's the energy per square area that follows the inverse square law.

>>11318114
You can't use lasers for ship to ship weapons. They are too easy to nerf and power requirements to make them useful are extremely massive. You can just fire a single standard round and do more then 100 lasers could possibly do.

>>11318128
the photons spread out as the beam spreads out, this means less energy hits each square unit area of material, which means that target heats up less

>>11318129
>>11318128
>>11318120
Fucking look up "inverse-square law" for fuck sake. This thread is fucking retarded now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

Lasers work the same, but you keep adding more energy to them, that is all.

>>11318138
>3r
>r gets 1/9 the energy per square as the 3r square
>all nine 3r squares together still get the same energy as the r square

>>11318138
to explain my "cool off" comment
so: lasers are dangerous as weapons if and only if they can heat a portion of the target beyond a critical temperature where it's damaged
typically this is the boiling point of the structure
if the laser inverse-square expands to the point that there's not enough energy for that per square unit area of material, so that it's just inputting raw heat to the spacecraft, then it's nearly useless as a weapon except as a flex because there are inefficiencies at both ends of the laser beam that mean that the weapon picks up more heat than the target

>3r gets 1/9 the energy per square as the r square
>all nine 3r squares together still get the same energy as the r square

>>11318131
Problem is that you can evade regular projectiles flying at 1-2 km/s, but you can't evade a laser.
>>11318136
W/mm^2 doesn't matter if the whole point is to overheat the enemy.
It only matters how much W in total hit the enemy for that purpose.

>>11318000
nice
china isn't as cucked as the west so they naturally deserve the stars

meanwhile, back to your regular 14 day cadence of starlink launches -
https://mobile.twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1219338192169533440

>>11318151
>>11318148
Simple reflective and ablative armor negates lasers. You'd need a shit load to maintain enough to get through that. Which isn't going to happen in space because your laser will burn up almost instantly.

>>11318162
does it really matter when Starlink launches? They need to adjust the orbital planes anyway...
>>11318165
yeah

>>11318165
Mirrors only work for certain wavelengths and ablative armor is getting heatsoaked as well.

>>11318000
this is going to pretty rapidly change when the Starlink momentum kicks in

Take 2, hopefully the weather is lenient this time...

>china is building their own dragon 2
>their own falcon 9 reusable
>an SLS
>their heavy lift rocket is back in action
>space station module launching soon
>mars lander launching too
spacex is the only thing keeping america in the game

>>11318221
>"Heavy" Lift
it's a medium lift rocket

Anyone else extremely fascinated by pulsed/rotary detonation engines? I've watched every single publicly available youtube vid on the subject. Rotary detonation engines in particular are the most brutal man-made machines imaginable outside of nuclear stuff.

>>11318225
i was referring to long march 5, which is a heavy lift rocket

>>11318227
They’re neat, it’s just super complicated to get working correctly

>>11318232
how much can it lift

>>11318193
you redditors said the same shit last year

>>11318237
>25 tons to LEO
medium lift

>>11318106
put a couple ion cannons on that and you've got something goin on

>>11318241
20 tons is heavy lift

>>11318128
they get tired doing all that running without atoms to rest on

>>11318243
>Nuclear shape charge torpedo silos, point defense guns and mass driver cannons are installed on the moon
>The fortress world becomes the lynchpin of Earth’s orbital defenses

>>11318235
Yeah, they're far from practical at the moment. Seems like the biggest issue isn't getting them working as such, but figuring out how not to make them tear themselves apart so quickly.

https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2018_Phase_I_Phase_II/PROCSIMA
If the idea of a combined neutral beam accelerator/laser system pans out. It would conceivably be mounted on space stations to reduce travel time between planets and perhaps high powered ones could become long range anti ship/anti asteroid weapons
>>11318254
You could reduce the force of each detonation but it would retract from its performance which is its selling point

>>11318272
>You could reduce the force of each detonation but it would retract from its performance which is its selling point
I wonder if the walls of the chamber could be continuously coated with some shock absorbing gas, liquid or even continuously fed solid.

>>11318252
how bout dem nuclear voitenko compressors

>>11318237
>>11318241
>bro do you even lift?

Some RDE clips. I can't imagine how it'd feel like being anywhere near one of these even with hearing protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWCRB8_s4fA
(transparent chamber)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHcxI-8GtZg
(nice fireworks, 00:40 - 00:50)

>>11318176
Not before your laser shits itself.

>>11318239
but Starlink is happening this year for realsies

>>11318239
yeah, reddit said that last year and they were wrong
I'm saying it this year and I'm right

>>11318470
they still haven't figured out the hardest part: the home receiver. Nobody is going to pay for starlink if there's a 10k buyin installation of a giant piece of hardware in their roof

>>11318486
>they still haven't figured out the hardest part: the home receiver
I thought they already figured that out?

>>11318479
based

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LsjyhSKiEHk&feature=emb_title&time_continue=348

Cool Rocket Cam™ footage from ULA as usual, but this time with two upper-stage engines!

>>11318501
Elon's tweeting about some prototypes but that's it, we don't have any more information

>>11318509
FUCK yes THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR

Would a massive light gas gun be viable as a launch system?
Send up capsules into orbit like War of the Worlds

>>11318563
it has the same problems as spinlaunch, launch loops and other mass drivers: you're either launching artillery shells (which excludes basically all modern off-the-shelf satellite equipment) or it's a megastructure

Apollo vs Artemis

>>11318573
Megastructure wouldn't be so bad if governments weren't such fags about ti

>>11318599
the core stage for SLS has more in common with the S-II than it does the S-1C
>>11318615
>I want to build something that stretches from coast to coast of South America through the fucking jungles
okay

>>11318479
based

>>11318563
No, not in the slightest. Rocket fuel, for getting shit into space, will always be king due to its energy density and lack of massive amounts of radiation.

>>11318669
>rAdiATioN

>>11318697
I think you misunderstand how nuclear powered rockets would work.

>>11318718
this is the most Wile E Coyote invention I have ever seen. can't believe it works

>>11318750
The only reason they didn't do it was because they literally could not think of a reason to put thousands of tons of payload into space. That was in the 1950s before all the anti-nukes in space shit treaties.

>>11318750
It's an amazing and truly American concept.

>>11318750
Now, I'm imagining Wile E. Coyote opening a little hatch, tossing out the nukes by hand, and trying to close the hatch before they blow up.

>>11318760
>battleship
lol, the only weaponry it needs is to land in your country and take off again

>>11318773
IIRC, those weren't regular battleship guns. They fire the same shaped charge for the propulsion except that the operational end is facing the enemy.

>>11318776
I think you'd want a deeper cone made of a different material for offensive use

>>11318779
lighter material, I think

Gentlemen, it's a nuclear device.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20190033337.pdf

>>11318811
>LiH as a NTR propellant
huh, how's the density on that?

>>11318821
>solid metal hydride with a high melting point of 700°C
>poor thermal conductivity at high temperatures
hmmmm, no thank you

>>11318811
whoops meant to post this link instead:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20190032440.pdf
>>11318821
No. It has to be hydrogen

>>11318859
>it has to be hydrogen
fuck off, show the number for methane

>>11318776
lol that is just out there. a ship full of nukes flying on naught but nuke explosions dropping nukes on all it passes, sounds like a 1st grader invented the concept

>>11318811
they've done this before for onboard generators, what's the indication that it is a ship propellant engine this time?

>>11318868
The Axe Cop engineering philosophy.

>>11318862
it decomposes into hydrogen and soot. So it's all the fun of hydrogen, but with soot problems.
>>11318870
>>they've done this before for onboard generators
what onboard generators? Shelby wants NASA to work on NTR's because it gives SLS something to lift.

>>11318888
imagine complaining about Congress actually funding new space technologies because their motives are suspect

>>11318811
So they think they'll have the Technology Readiness Level high enough to ask industry to begin crafting bid proposals for an engine test mission by some time this fall?

>>11318888
I was under the impression that methane doesn't have the coking problems of the heavier hydrocarbons

>>11318883

>axe cop

it's been too long since I've heard about that

>>11318859
>somebody had their team named DIRT
poor blokes

what does an /sfg/ battlestation look like?

>>11319131
you know the apollo mission control center in Houston?
absolutely nothing like that

>>11318888
I'm wrong, I think. I probably was thinking of satellites

>>11319131
First off you got a crash couch with integrated liquid food sippy and waste removal. You ain't a real belter if you can't mine your claim without leaving your couch. Then you got a wall of screens and MFDs. You still have physical buttons though rather than touch screens because you can work physical buttons with out looking at them. An especially important touch is a spaceball for rotation translation control. You also have an easy on easy off VR headset, cause when you're driving space robots you need depth perception. You have two high bandwidth 6 axis force feedback controllers, cause when you're driving space robots to rig up your roid you gotta feel like you're there.

>>11319196
it's a shitty laptop with a dualshock, anon

>>11319131
cringe

>>11319207
not enough DoFs to control space robots and you can't feel up shit remotely

>>11319230
that sounds expensive, and the dirty belters are dirt farmers

>>11319233
You can get 3 axis force feedback haptics for less than $200 today. There's no reason, 6 axis haptics shouldn't be ridiculously expensive by the time we have belters. A robot arm can also be used for low bandwidth force feedback.

>>11318888
Methane won't form soot. Sure it'll decompose, but for methane to form soot it would have to lose at least 3 of its hydrogens, which is extremely unlikely since at temperatures high enough for methane to decompose that completely it would tend to form a species mixture rich in diatomic and monatomic hydrogen, which would tend to react with the nearly naked carbon atoms again, keeping them volatile if not methane (eg CH3, CH2).

>>11318811
>>11318859
So at that temperature (2300 C), we know given that chart that H2O propellant would yield about the same Isp as a sea level Merlin 1D engine operating in vacuum, and we can infer that methane would yield around 360-370 Isp (since it is a better propellant than ammonia). Anyone think that some vehicle using an engine with these specs couldn't be used to hop around on icy objects in the outer solar system? I'm thinking of the moons of the gas giants, especially Saturn (where they are low gravity and have low surface radiation levels).

>>11319296
yes, Saturn is going to be fucking awesome if people ever settle there with reusable nuclear thermal engines

if you took every planet in the solar system that did not have aliens on it, where does that leave earth?

is earth so astronomically outside of the mean, that universe never had its intention to have life created in the first place? therefore it is impossible for there to be aliens?

>>11317772
>Clearing orbital debris is going to be a shitshow.

Just put something into an orbit with it and grab it, and return it to the giant space factory.

>>11318221
How much do they pay you to shill for the modern equivalent of Nazi Germany?

>>11318669
> No, not in the slightest. Rocket fuel, for getting shit into space, will always be king due to its energy density and lack of massive amounts of radiation.

Until we invent warp drives

>>11319308
>if you took every planet in the solar system that did not have aliens on it, where does that leave earth?

It is unknown whether or not life excepts elsewhere in the solar system.

> is earth so astronomically outside of the mean

1/8 planets and 1/4 rocky worlds is a pretty good ratio.

>>11319337
how dumb are you to suggest ignoring the modern equivalent of Nazi Germany?

will china ever get anyone to cooperate with them on their space station?

>>11319369
no

>>11319369
yes

>>11319368
Don’t ignore it; destroy it.

>>11319345
what if the observable universe represented a fraction of the whole universe, and then you multiply that by time, time which in millions of years humans will expand their field of view on the solar system and still not find any source of aliens. will that find your answer in whether aliens exist?

>>11319369

I can see Russia doing it. Maybe Iran should they ever get their shit in order.

>>11317472
Did they hack into Boeing and nab the CST-100 plans? If so, godspeed, China. Try not to set the internal clock to Chennai local time.

did we ever find out what Zuma was?

>>11319404
>What if

It’s our job to find what is, not make up stories.

>>11319369
>send your astronauts up there
>have to delay the rocket by 4 months because Jingong’s “high quality construction” metals buckled under the rockets weight and ruptured a fuel tank just before ignition
>attempt to dock at main airlock but the 0.2m/s docking speed causes the airlock to deform upon impact so you have to go to the other one
>when your astronauts get up there the chinks refuse to cooperate on any activities
>everyone dies when Chang accidentally breathes on the wall, causing the top quality china no. 1 quality construction to fail and breach, explosively decompressing the station

How much is Boeing SEETHING right now?

>>11319131

>>11319561
Please go to a therapist

>>11318246
based

>>11318630
>>I want to build something that stretches from coast to coast of South America through the fucking jungles
>okay
> Thinks we've never put massive linear infrastructure through extremely hostile terrain before
You've never heard of the Trans-Alaska pipeline then anon? That was built in the 70s

>>11319561
Leave 4chan and better yourself.

>>11319605
Now make it tens of kilometres high filled with high density coils all the way.

>>11319438
The next-generation capsule’s design has very little in common with CST-100, actually it has far more in common with Cargo Dragon if you look at it’s shape/angle, the placement of it’s parachutes and RCS thrusters etc

>>11319624
So you're shifting the goalposts then? The problem isn't strictly the location or distance which is what the earlier post implied. The problem is the tens of kilometres high aspect, which would be a problem even if you built it in Texas.

>>11319605
>>11319624
why exactly would it be put in the jungle again?
the ocean is big and empty with just shitty weather to fuck with things
also, Panama canal was even more daunting a task, and they pulled that shit off in 1914

The country of China has about half a century of technological progress before I would trust them to build a car.

I can't imagine a more anxiety-inducing siduation than being trapped in the void of space with giant red symbols stamped onto everything reminding me that everything is probably made of an alluminum alloy produced through obfuscated levels of mismanagement and fudging of numbers that are impossible to keep track of, but result in it being 5 cents cheaper per square foot to somebody.

Of course, they could always use something not produced in China, but no they can't because China #1.
So produce a technological monument that's an ineffible level of complexity never doubting your abilities, watch it burn down and then have everyone involved be executed.

>>11318227
I’ve got a mate doing research on it and for the defence force (Australia), pretty neat stuff

>>11319131
Gay

>>11319644
>Digging a big trench is comparable to suspending a huge tube subjected to massive forces from both its internal coils and weather, kilometres high across a distance of hundreds of kilometres

No

>>11319648
This reminds me of how Victorian bread was adulterated with gypsum and all kinds of other nasties when the flour was too expensive. Growing pains. They'll learn in time. Trying to shift billions of people in mindset can't be done overnight.

>>11319644
So the bases of the thousands of active support legs (let's not even get into that) need to be drilled and fixed into the seabed, potentially kilometres deep under the surface? Cool idea bro.

>>11319648
>I can't imagine a more anxiety-inducing siduation than being trapped in the void of space with giant red symbols stamped onto everything reminding me that everything is probably made of an alluminum alloy produced through obfuscated levels of mismanagement and fudging of numbers that are impossible to keep track of, but result in it being 5 cents cheaper per square foot to somebody

Replace giant red symbols with corporate logos and you pretty much described America, yeah....

>>11319662
How do you think oil platforms are made, shitposter friend?

>>11319656
>>Digging a big trench
I mentioned the TAP because it's a complex system, not just a pipe in a trench. Engineers had to support it off the ground to avoid disturbing the thermal regime of the soil and let animals pass. It rests on vertical support members that allow the pipeline to move as soil moves with the seasons. It's an engineering marvel really.

>>11319670
Sure, they run around half a billion each, now times that by many thousands before you even start on your main structure and ask yourself why the fuck you aren't just using and developing better reusable rockets?

>>11319672
You were talking about the Panama canal dickhead, try reading your reply chain. Even the trans alaska pipeline which you call a marvel of engineering is essentially a big pipe with nothing inside it and what is its highest point? I'm picking not more than 100m, not even in the kilometer scale.

11319685
>the entirety of the cost of an oil platform is in the anchor

>>11319665
Americans are retarded, but I trust Americans to build quality machinery 10 times more than other countries.

It's just what happens when you raise a country on certain ideals for hundreds of years.
The image of great men like The Wright Brothers is on posters in schools, the simple logo "Ford" that doesn't need to show itself off or advertise anything other than the fact that it's a Ford is on the front of half the cars in America.

Even Steve Jobs who was one of the greatest technological designers of all time I don't think could've come out of any country other than America.

It's laced into their DNA.

>another side thought that kind of scares me
China is developing at a rate a hundred times faster than about any other country on the planet right now.

And what they're creating is a huge push for people to take what they can. What "becoming an engineer" means to them is studying extremely hard to brute force something that's kind of better left to "intuition" or "naunce".

>what's the difference. You act like it's something magical
I think this is people that have never engineered anything's introduction to what it's like to work with something real and tangible.

And what it's like is the fact that things and the amount of permutations of things that can go wrong or not be ideal become exponential when you add them together. To the point where designing a car kind of takes "a special kind of person"

>this metal is 1% softer than would be ideal
>because of that, it bends slightly
>these screws are more prone to rattling when it bends. Because of that, it becomes less secure
>we can rectify this, but we'd need to make it thicker
>if it gets thicker, the entire thing becomes heavier
>when it gets heavier, there's about 20 things which really should be redesigned. Let's try to make them all work together and hpe nothing like this happens again

You add up 30 things that are 1% imperfect, and what you get is something that's 1000% more likely to fuck up.

>>11319685
That's a different anon

>>11319648
>giant red symbols
Pretty sure boeing logo never been red

>>11319706

>>11319331
Sure, you can pay the fuel costs.

>>11319340
>>11319404
>>>/sci-fi/

>>11319369
Never.

>>11319665
>>11319717
Trigger happy people sue the shit out of corps and for even small mistakes. No one wants to be, "that company," for a project this massive. That is a huge motivator.

>Tents, windbreakers and cargo containers filling up Boca Chica
>Soon all work will be under cover and out of sight
>"Welcome to Nasa Spaceflight's tent watch stream episode 99999"

>>11319692
>Americans are retarded, but I trust Americans to build quality machinery 10 times more than other countries.
? Japan obliterated the US in engineering through innovations such as total quality management etc., producing cars that were objectively better engineered, more reliable, cheaper and more fuel efficient

>>11319561
Also thats Asmongold's setup, nice try.

>>11319777
Feelsbadman, maybe at least some mad cunts can hoon some illicit drones through the tents though?

>>11319778
I didn't say literally every other country.

Japan is a country with ideals and philosophies regarding refinement, discipline and hard work going back potentially thousands of years.

Germany still continues to wreck everyone elses shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RepARd6db7c

>>11319784
I'd rather Elon give BocaChicaGal a job and let her set up cams/film inside. Doubt he would want filming of workers breaking more cranes and shit though.

>>11319648
>>11319692
What you're describing it's a real problem in china's industry system, and the line of thinking behind it can be sum as "pay low, expect to get fucked", in the steel commerce it's epidemic, you can find supposed AISI 304 stainless steel for almost nothing and then you get literal rusting crap. BUT, for the same thinking if you pay something high you get the best quality they can provide, and that's very, very high quality. And I don't think the party cut prices on spacefaring tech advancements.

>>11319847
Yeah, when the CCP is sourcing materials for its real big dick projects you better believe the factories are producing the right stuff because their managers will likely be put against the wall if they deliver sub par shit that is the cause of failure.

So what are China plans after Moon landing?
Build Gateway equivalent? Start to building moon base?

>>11319871
Activate Chinese interns and copy starship and raptor designs.

The details of China’s long-term Moon plans are sketchy, but their program can be simplified into five phases:

1.) orbiters e.g. Chang’e 1+2
2.) soft landers/rovers e.g. Chang’e 3+4
3.) sample-return e.g. Chang’e 5+6
4.) robotic research station at the Moon's South Pole e.g. Chang’e 7+8
5.) crewed exploration

The details on crewed lunar exploration are really light because there isn’t really a plan yet. China’s human spaceflight priorities for the 2020s are getting their Mir-sized space station up and running, and modernising it’s human spaceflight fleet (replacing Shenzhou with the NGC and replacing the hypergolic-fuelled LM-2F with the cryogenic-fuelled LM-7). Lunar crewed exploration is generally considered a 2030s thing, although their already setting the ground-work for it, with the development of a new BLEO-capable capsule and heavy-launchers.
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/cnsa_moon_future.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Lunar_Exploration_Program

>>11319249
"Force feedback" isn't "feel up shit remotely"
And for $200? This isn't a PS4 controller, its much more complex than that.

>>11320112
you ever used haptics boy? I fucking have. You really can feel stuff up remotely. And yes, I bought a novint falcon haptic device which is capable of 3 axis force feedback for less than $100. All you need are torque controlled actuators and those are in the process of becoming cheap.

>>11319871
planned launch of the first module of a fully chinese space station this year

>>11319561
amidoinitright?

>>11319625
looks like it has far more dV than Orion does too, haha

>>11320129
>you ever used haptics boy? I fucking have.
>novint falcon haptic device
A video game controller? With 400 dpi resolution and a 4" cubed workspace?
You really have no idea how large, complex, and detailed a real system needs to be for point-to-point low latency *precise* work to be done.
Your $200 game controller is a joke. The robots they use to preform remote surgery don't use cheap servo motors. They're sporting bipolar stepper motors that have insane precision and instant response. The inputs are at a minimum 32 bit resolution, not the 12 bit chinese ADC your toy uses.

>>11320129
>torque controlled actuators
Please elaborate.
What, where and how much.
I've been looking for ages for something to drive a custom force feedback joystick without resorting to retarded things like rewound brushless rc motors and 30:1 reducers

Oh no
Oh no

>>11319952
it's going to very exciting when it becomes obvious to congress that the Chinese are far more serious about spaceflight than we are

>>11320211
Provide a link and some relevant excerpts, not a screencap and some no use or value reaction.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/nasa-and-boeing-are-closely-looking-at-starliners-thruster-performance/

>

During the post-flight news conference Jim Chilton, Boeing's senior vice president of the Space and Launch division, said the service module thrusters were stressed due to their unconventional use in raising Starliner's orbit instead of performing one big burn. As a result, the company had to shut down one manifold, which effectively branches into several lines carrying propellant to four thrusters. "We even shut down one manifold as we saw pressure go low 'cause it had been used a lot," he said.

>The NASA source said eight or more thrusters on the service module failed at one point and that one thruster never fired at all.

>>11319605
now build a CERN in the middle of the fucking jungle

>>11320225
Can't, at work.

>>11320225
>>The NASA source said eight or more thrusters on the service module failed at one point and that one thruster never fired at all.
Look at this dude

>>11320256
difficult != completely impossible forever and ever

>>11320211
>>11320225
>actually reading bullshit-monger Berger with his ((anonymous NASA sources))

That’s a massive yikes from me!

>>11320276
Boeing did reply to requests for comment, and said:

>"After the anomaly, many of the elements of the propulsion system were overstressed, with some thrusters exceeding the planned number of burns for a service module mission. We took a few cautionary measures to make sure the propulsion system stayed healthy for the remainder of the mission, including re-pressurizing the manifold, recovering that manifold’s thrusters. Over the course of the mission we turned off 13 thrusters and turned all but one back on after verifying their health."

>>11320274
At some point difficult = not worth it

Sure we could do megastructure launch systems, according to paper, but in reality we're probably never going to beat the economics afforded by fully reusable chemical rockets.

>>11320211
yessssss

>>11320274
yeah, I agree, but I don't expect to see it inside my lifetime

Oh, so it will have Starliner style inflatable bags.
Interesting. I thought it will splashdown like Dragon. I guess it make sense because they have experience with landings on land.

ooooh, good chart Mr. Berger

>>11320286
Hybrid spaceplanes shuttling people up to very low altitude stations is the way of the future. We shouldn't be launching anything that we can't build in space instead. Large reusable rockets will get us there, but after a certain point all our ships should be constructed from lunar or asteroid-derived materials, and they should stay in space.

>>11320314
thats so dumb
have the x-axis be date
and the y-axis be (launch date) - (date)
instead of this mess

or at least make the blue line straight

>>11320285
The way Berger worded it is really dodgy, it’s like he’s trying to subconsciously convince people there’s something wrong with Starliner’s thrusters. Boeing already told people some of the thrusters were over-stressed due to the timing anomaly and has to be turned off. What’s the problem here?

>>11320310
Another reason the capsule is landing on land, is because it’s supposed to be reusable just like Starliner.

>>11320325
when you land on land like that with airbags you need to discard the heat shield, which gets very expensive

>>11320211
>8 thrusters failed
>1 didn't even fire
Boeing was supposed to be the "safe" alternative to SpaceX. They were given 2X the budget.

>>11320333
Literally all capsules use or have used ablative heat-shields so it doesn’t make any difference. That heat shield is getting scrapped one way or another and Starliner’s was actually recovered intact after being jettisoned.

>>11320339
>They were given 2X the budget.

To build a capsule for the first time in 40 years from scratch, unlike SpaceX who were contracted to upgrade Dragon 1 for crewed flights.

>>11320321
The thruster system didn't work well. It "wasn't used as intended" but still performed poorly, to include a thruster not even firing.
That alone is problem enough to keep it grounded. If a thruster doesn't ignite, regardless of it being used as intended, it's a failure.

>>11320347
what parts of Apollo did Boeing build?
did they have any hand in the shuttle program?

>>11320348
A single thruster not firing after being over-stressed isn’t a big deal, that’s why we have redundancy dumbass.

>>11320347
Not only does the cost of designing D1 + the money given to them to make D2 sum up to what boeing received, but boeing is charging NASA much more money to launch one.
NASA isn't requiring Boeing to do an in-flight abort, but after this I would demand one.

>>11320347
>Boeing
>from scratch
LMAO. What next? SLS was created from scratch with $20 billion budget?

>>11320350
They built the Saturn V’s S-1C first-stage and the Shuttle Orbiter after absorbing Rockwell.

>>11320352
Which means it failed if it can't refire, on a reuseable capsule. Other thrusters also failed. If only one thruster went bad, maybe 2, I could understand. But this was large scale.
I bet you also feel that they shouldn't have to redo an orbital test to the ISS? A single docking procedure not happening isn't a big deal, right?

>>11320149
>> The robots they use to preform remote surgery
are currently a joke as basically all in use don't have force feedback at all.
>> how large, complex, and detailed
making it larger means more mass, more inertia, and less of a response time. Surgical robots also have some very specific requirements that come from needing to fit into tiny holes. Like the davinci robot tools only last like 10 or so uses, cause that's the only way we can make em' at all. Drive cables just end up gettin' too worn out. There's no reason why haptics couldn't become cheaper in the future, which is sort of what we're talking about here. I was ironically posting about a future /sfg/ battlestation for a belter. So like it's the future and we want to mine 'roids, this means at the very fucking least setting up a bunch of hardware on said 'roid. Like big ass mirrors and big O' bags for carrying out mond process. Well AI's petering out and humans are still expensive to keep alive. So the solution is to send the smartest robots we have, which are still quite dumb, and send one dude to deal with all the bugs by toggling through all of em' like a korean playing starcraft.
>> servo
outdated term. So you see, robots are starting to need torque control, which is also what we fucking need for haptics too. Now china's starting to fucking SELL torque controlled dog robots. As in, you can buy em' right fucking now:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009340574.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.36ab70adFskm1q&algo_pvid=56a86cd0-d0ad-4d43-9fbe-ffd37570b3a2&algo_expid=56a86cd0-d0ad-4d43-9fbe-ffd37570b3a2-0&btsid=82523bdf-f3ef-422e-a733-772284ccf9aa&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_53
It's only a matter of time before they're like quadcopters are today.
>>32 bit
yeah, so? 32 bit absolute encoders ain't unheard of in walking robots. Least an ADC's just electronics and electronics are a heckuva lot easier to make cheap than actuators. Silicon's cheaper than steel.

>>11320364
>But this was large scale.

>A single, tiny thruster fails after being subjected to large amounts of stress that it’s not qualified for

NASA here.
Boeing is a pretty cool guy so I think they are ready for crewed flight. Don't need a new test flight.

>>11320371
I’m also looking forward to launching crew on reusable spacecraft again.

>>11320365
>are currently a joke as basically all in use don't have force feedback at all.
Yes they do

>I was ironically posting about a future /sfg/ battlestation
Stop being ironic. You want to add to the conversation, don't be a child.

>outdated term
Servo motors are a real thing, not just a term. Look it up.

>robots are starting to need torque control
They always have needed it, and the robot link you posted is using three-phase DC motors. Its not some fancy new thing. Its literally an old school DC motor that uses multiple phases to control power and positioning.

>32 bit absolute encoders
>Least an ADC's just electronics
I never said anything about encoders. Those are pointless after a rather disappointing resolution. I was saying that 32-bit ADCs were superior to the 12-bit ADCs in the controller. Massive amounts of data points and a very accurate reading on position.
The "$100" 3-axis feedback system you spoke of is that cheap because of trash accuracy. It is very costly for high resolution feedback and isn't coming down in price.

>>11320366
>A single, tiny thruster fails after being subjected to large amounts of stress that it’s not qualified for

So you're going to ignore the fact that 8 other thrusters failed too?

>>11320393
That’s just Berger’s vague bullshit take. Those thrusters didn’t fail, they overheated, had to be shutoff and were successfully turned on later. Only one mechanically failed.

>>11320403
>Those thrusters didn’t fail, they overheated

So, they failed at being thrusters?

>>11320333
Probably better than flushing the capsule with salt water and permafucking it's metal components, electrics, and if it's using hypergols of any kind it can lead to rapid unintended disassembly. Idunno specifically, but I think if you made the capsule bigger you might be able to have some kind of small swinging open hatches with heat shield on their outer face that snap out to release the air cushions, that way the heat shield doesn't have to be dumped. In the end though, if SpaceX's heat shields are any indication, heat protection in general will get cheaper and tougher so even if you still have to continue to discard it, it will probably be cheaper by far compared to refurbing a capsule after it's been submerged in sea water.

>>11320314
It needs to be like this one.
Date as the Y-axis? Oh shit Neptunian what you doing? So what even IS the X-axis?
>>11320317
That's like saying F9 should never had launched until each core was reusable ten times or more. That's an old-space attitude.
Fortunately, SpaceX realized that by first launching it as a "normal" rocket, they had plenty of free cores to develop the landing technique, while still running paying missions.
>>11320348
>a thruster not even firing.
That's okay, what's a thruster or a parachute not working, when they're all redundant! (insert unicorn sparkles here) Boing!
But SpaceX? They have to re-run their parachute tests ten times before NASA is satsified!

>>11320410
The RCS thrusters were obviously pushed way beyond what they were qualified for, it’s not surprising or negative they were unable to function past that point. Boeing people were quite upbeat about the situation, thought it was a good stress test to show their breaking point and were happy the software successfully shut them down before failure.

>>11320424
No the one didn't start at all.

>>11320421
>That's okay, what's a thruster or a parachute not working, when they're all redundant!

SpaceX actually had a significant RCS issue on the first Dragon flight to the ISS (CRS-2), but the issue was resolved and NASA still let them dock. I don’t see any favouritism here, just NASA’s general leniency when it comes to human spaceflight.

>>11320441
Now that there is a software timing issue, a rocket issue where one doesn't work, and a parachute that didn't work. It would be crazy to not have another flight.

>>11320441
>just NASA’s general leniency when it comes to human spaceflight.
Leniency like not requiring Boeing to do an in-flight abort like SpaceX just had to do?
Even after the timer issue and (in flight abort) thruster mishap?
That's straight up favoritism.

>>11320390
>>Yes they do
davinci robots sure as hell don't, show me one actually in use that does
>>Servo
I stick with what I said. It's an old ass term and really should refer to obsolete analog electronic controlled motors that just go to a position
>>They always have needed it
yeah, but until recently we haven't been very good at it. And walking robots really fucking need fine torque control, because our current control approaches are based on controlling the force they apply to the ground. Robot arms are starting to need it to. Fine torque control enables robot arms to move with people
>>using three-phase DC motors
with a gearbox, which you absolutely fucking need to get high torque density
>>three-phase DC motors
which have been highly optimized for high torque density
>>Its not some fancy new thing
and with better control we've been able to finely control output torque. Dealing the the cogging torque has been a problem, but we can compensate for that now.
>>I never said anything about encoders
well I fuckin' did.
>>high resolution feedback and isn't coming down in price.
so technology never progresses and just sits fucking still?

>>11320471
> Leniency like not requiring Boeing to do an in-flight abort like SpaceX just had to do?

NASA never forced SpaceX to do an inflight-abort, SpaceX voluntarily chose to do so as a method of qualifying their abort system when the contracts for CC were being wrote, Boeing chose more simulations. It doesn’t matter what your personal feelings about the situation is, nobody forced SpaceX to do it, it was actually their idea not NASA’s, THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. I hate that this meme keeps persisting.

>>11320487
In the end it strikes me as the rational thing to do to perform at least one in-flight abort test, and if you've got cores you need to de-commission anyways, I'd say perform one whenever you're about to chuck a core for being too old. Separate and retrieve the engines with a parachute system, launch that capsule, and blow the fucker up. Boeing deciding to just run more sims doesn't fill me with confidence, it's just another indicator that the engineers aren't getting sufficient input. Computers can only identify failure states you already expect to happen, there is no substitute for a real-life stress test.

>>11317727
lmao, realistically it would be a shipping container with magnets/clamps to connect and breaching charges on one side to make a doorway

>>11320513
This, basically a box with minimalist life support, a low-visibility hull and internal heat sinks, with very limited propulsive systems probably reliant on supercold high pressure gas. You'd spill them in the path of the enemy ship or fleet, and they'd have to use passive exclusive sensors to figure out where the enemy are and at the last second maneuver into an intercept that isn't lethally fast. A shaped charge of some kind will punch a hole into the enemy ship without a seal, venting their atmosphere and fully suited boarders will attempt to seize control of the life support, propulsion, and command elements of the enemy ship. Mortality rate will be extraordinarily high, since if you fall behind you'll likely be flashed by the enemy's drive and probably instantly irradiated to death.

>>11319534

>>11320529
>atomizes half your assault team with a single shot
Nothin' personnel belterscum

>>11320544
Elon should offer some Boeing and Cockheed representatives a ride on the second Starship manned flight, just to really rub it in.

>>11320551
I don’t know any Boeing or Lockheed employees who are suicidal, if I find any I’ll tell you,

>>11320421
>That's like saying F9 should never had launched until each core was reusable ten times or more. That's an old-space attitude.
Did you reply to the right person?

>>11320556
You know what, I don't know any Boeing employees who've flown on a 737-MAX either, fair point.

https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/participate/name-the-rover/
So, /sfg/? I hope Endurance will win.

>>11320564
I also voted for endurance

>>11320564
I favor Tenacity, Perseverance or Fortitude, since so far the Mars rovers which actually survive touchdown have shown an exceptional capacity to exceed their design expectations in terms of staying power.

>>11320485
>Presented with facts
>Refuses to change opinions
>Changes arguments to attempt being correct

Cool, I'll let you play with your video game controller and feel like you know what you're talking about.
You really need to get a grip on that tunnel vision.

>>11320564
Badass Mother 4000: Twice as fast as your ass

>>11320558
>but after a certain point all our ships should be constructed from lunar or asteroid-derived materials, and they should stay in space
yes
>> but after a certain point all our ships should be constructed from lunar or asteroid-derived materials, and they should stay in space

does anybody have a render of Starship docking to the ISS

>>11320644
not a full size comparison one

>>11320654
I believe there's indications that current plan for crew/pressed cargo docking capability is on the nose, even though I think the spine one is cooler

>>11319369
ESA astronauts are literally training in China, it's NASA which is forbidden by law to cooperate with China.

>THE THRUSTERS ALL FAILED REEEE

How much do you guys think Elon pays the shill per post?

>>11320654
Nice. Zero-G cocktails and canapes in the fabulously opulent Starship lounge, or stay on the stinky fungus-ridden ISS for rehydrated rations? Cocktails it is then.

Starlink launch delayed till Friday @ 10:54 a.m. EST. High winds in wed/thurs.

>Boeing

>>11320695
Unlike Elon, he doesn't pay anyone to shill for him. They do it for free because whatever.
Jeff Who on the other hand literally bought the Washington Post and has used it to publish articles that slam SpaceX and Elon.

>Be first astronauts on Boeings capsule
>Parachutes may or may not work
>Thrusters may or may not work
>Capsule may or may not make orbit correctly
>Capsule may or may not dock at space station

Lul those guys must be getting pretty nervous about riding the latest flying coffin designed by Boeing.

>>11320852
>inb4 rocket nosedives itself because of a bug
>tfw probe core upside-down in ksp

>>11320852
You forgot

>May or may not abort successfully if something goes wrong

>>11320852
ahhh, the mysteries of Space

>>11320852
>Parachutes may or may not work

Starliner’s parachutes have worked completely fine except that one time with the human-induced rigging error, and even then redundancy saved the day.

>Thrusters may or may not work

I’m pretty sure if the thrusters didn’t work OFT would have splashed down in the Indian Ocean. A software problem which effected the thrusters negatively does not equal a thruster failure.

>Capsule may or may not make orbit correctly

Starliner’s initial suborbital trajectory is actually a very good idea, considering a potential thruster failure won’t leave you stranded in orbit unlike with other vehicles.

>Capsule may or may not dock at space station

Crew Dragon and Starliner both use the exact same docking system, if it worked on one vehicle, why wouldn’t it work on another?

> latest flying coffin

If there had been crew in OFT, they wouldn’t have been in danger at any point during the flight.

Stop being a retard, ok?

>>11320876
Observe how your tax dollars get spent by Boeing to shill their latest pile of shit.

>>11320880
Most people wouldn’t really care what’s happening to 0.00005% of their taxpayer dollars...but I for one am very grateful that Boeing are using it to develop a ten times reusable crew capsule that utilises innovative technologies like airbags for landing, instead of building a traditional expendable crew capsule like SpaceX.

>>11320145
>computer built inside a giant gumball machine
so /sfg/'s computer would be build inside a rocket/satellite?

>>11320889
Dragon 2 has fucking bilge pumps so that it's more easily reusable after splashing down in the Atlantic, but NASA aren't fully on board with reusing Dragon 2 yet

>>11320671
>ESA astronauts are literally training in China, it's NASA which is forbidden by law to cooperate with China.
is this how the future is going to be? a space race between between china and usa, with every other space agency providing support to the chinese and american programs? mite b cool

>>11320889
dragon is only expendable because it was ordered to be by safetycucks, the superdracos were designed from the beginning to make it reusable

The dragon's should be used as crew capsules in it's first mission and then as cargo missions, for nasa.
Private is a different game, if bigelow wants a contract with spaceX for transporting people to their own "future station" with used dragon capsules then nasa should have no say in this.

>>11320917
that would be cool as heck, haven't heard much about bigelow recently. After the success of the BEAM on the ISS, aren't they supposed to be testing one of the bigger modules this year?

>>11320876
>A software problem which effected the thrusters negatively does not equal a thruster failure.
Except that one thruster didn't work at all.
>Starliner’s initial suborbital trajectory is actually a very good idea,
What is not a good idea is "I've already been flying 11 hours, I must already be in orbit!" That's an MCAS-tier bad idea.
>Crew Dragon and Starliner both use the exact same docking system
They use the same docking ring, but there's more to docking than the ring, there's also the approach procedure, especially the auto-dock. Except that one actually reached the ISS and proved itself, while the other fucked up and never proved an actual docking. Hooray for simulations!

>>11320889
>ten times reusable
So are they going to to refurbish those overloaded thrusters before sending it up again? Having to rebuild the engines every time? Wow, it's just like Shuttle!

>>11320947
dont know what they are up to now but i think they did some proposals for gateway.

When elon kills someone in a rocket explosion what happens

>>11320958
o-oh well, b-boeing snipers I guess haha

>>11320958
a few tweets and probably not much else

>>11320958
probably give people like shelby a reason to sanction spaceX so hard it gets groundlocked for a decade.

>>11320958
He pays the family (it's the right thing to do), hopefully gives a decent speech about how we're embarking on something great and unfortunately that means things go wrong, name the next ship after whoever died, learn from mistake & move on.
That's assuming he kills the person in the rocket.

If he kills someone on the ground he is getting sued by anyone and everyone. Probably settle out of court.

>>11320958
he hires a P.I. to find out their dirty secrets, leaks them to the fanbois and eventually opinion-equilibrium is reached with the world at large or a jury of 12 that those people had it coming and he didn't mean to

>>11320949
>Except that one thruster didn't work at all.

Starliner has a total of 60 thrusters, I don’t think he’ll be missed...

> MCAS-tier bad idea

Predictable but irrelevant MCAS reference, check...

> They use the same docking ring, but there's more to docking than the ring, there's also the approach procedure, especially the auto-dock.

Your only relevant point. However, I don’t think the crew will mind testing this on the next mission, considering they can easily abort the docking if something goes wrong.

> So are they going to to refurbish those overloaded thrusters before sending it up again? Having to rebuild the engines every time? Wow, it's just like Shuttle!

Now this is just weird, it’s like you couldn’t come up with a retort and just had an aneurysm instead.

>>11320145
>gumball machine
Pretty kino, but I'd paint the red highlights black.

>>11320211
CHADship always wins, baby

>>11320998
Supercomputer, or Pachinko Machine?

>>11320958
Hold F9

>>11317538
>nuclear weapons
>need atmosphere to transmit force
Not if you shape the blast, and use it to vaporize and accelerate a thick tungsten plate. This is essentially a weaponized orion drive: create a plasma cone and boost it to extremely high speed. The bonus is it's very difficult to evade.

>>11321027
based and greenpilled

Somebody earlier was asking about future Chinese Moon plans and I just randomly came across this graphic of a Chinese crewed lander design from CAST (China’s biggest state-owned space contractor).

>>11321001
Is this the newest design render now? Interesting, not quite sure I'm game for that carbon lattice window, but the huge single pane never seemed remotely practical either. I'm kinda ready for spacecraft to start looking more organic.

>>11321085
is it light or heavy elements that make the narrow casaba howitzer beam when used as the plate

>>11321091

>>11317763
Ion sputtering to make mirrors should be stupidly simple in space

>>11321093
no, that's by gravitation innovation

>>11321100
Hey that suit-entry design is the same as those NASA concept rovers, isn't it? It's a cool idea though so I don't mind that they copied it.

>>11321093
I don't think the window is going to make the final version, it's a gigantic point of failure waiting to happen.

>>11321105
Ah, looks sorta neat.
>>11321123
Frankly I agree, spacecraft as we make them are just not the kind of thing you want to have big glass windows in. If they want to see outside they can use really high fidelity cameras or spacewalk or something.

>>11321098
Light elements with a low melting point will form a plasma beam. Hydrogen might be too light. I assume some sort of plastic would be good.

Beam narrowness is mostly about design of the charge I think, heavy vs. light elements is more about velocity.

>>11321123
>>11321136
I think you could do a series of windows like New Shepard's big ones, but there would still need to be a very substantial amount of material between each window. It won't look like the concept art of the interior right now.

stale briny pisslock

>>11320958
Issue statement saying "we have room for improvement" and keep working. What else is there to do? Shutdown and crawl inside a cave?

>>11321208
he could bomb washington

>>11319777
>Soon all work will be under cover and out of sight
Good. Being constantly recorded means they had to work slower because of possible OSHA violations, even then they still had a few fuck ups. I would have those Mexican welders free climbing Starship if it meant it would get built faster.

Was this posted yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=117&v=06svtpboEJs&feature=emb_title

>>11320958
Dunno, Boeing's fucking fireballed like 200-ish civvies and they didn't even sign up to be exploded and that hasn't stopped them from staying in the rocketry business. If I were him I'd make the necessary apologies, acknowledge and remember the sacrifice of the crew and move on with the work. It's terrible and unfortunate but new rockets are extremely dangerous and many of their failure states are instantly fatal, sometimes astronauts die as a result. Now there are situations where death can absolutely be avoided, but in the event of a true accident there's nothing much to be done except to either decide to quit or decide to move on.

>>11321210
>Manned Starship flight has a RUD
>Shelby has congress try to seize SpaceX's assets seized for use SLS (PBUI)
>Elon retaliates by using a starship to steer an asteroid onto D.C. and McNukes (tm) it
>Shelby takes command of the spaceforce and declares war on SpaceX
>SpaceX and Spaceforce keep flying back and forth, shooting eachother
>China's trying to establish its space claim with quantum impressive railguns and quantum orange puff rockets
>The dark times of the Space Wars has begun

>>11320827
Every time I read "Jeff who" my brain autocompletes it: "Jeff who is a bald ass motherfucker"

>>11321349
>He pissed on my fucking girlfriend!

>>11321210
I'm just picturing the scenario going-
>Starship RUDs a few astronauts on a trip to the Moon
>Elon preemptively panic-bombs the Capitol building from orbit
>The government didn't even have a chance to react
>"I didn't want to get sued"

>>11321413
>I'm your god now

>>11321123
Personally, I agree. Just have a few space shuttle-esque windows on the cockpit and let the pilots (should there be any) see out of that.

>>11321413
>elon is suddenly getting chased by blue checkmarks online
>they wanna sue hard
>he can't turn back now
https://youtu.be/h_SxVtf6Nk0 plays
>orbiting starships reveal railguns and laser emitters
>the muskrat has gone into full panic but is slowly gaining composure
>IDF is getting wrecked by starship bolts and lasers
>superpowered Jacob Rothschild fused with the rest of the elite families comes out of beresheet rocket
>"OY VEY YOU CAN'T DESTROY MY KALERGI PLAN"
>elon uses his economic status to gain literal power
>"FALCON PUUUUUUNCH"
>hits the minecraft villager with the force of a thousand raptor engines
>jacob evaporates
>battle space is enveloped in a fire
>hollywood and israel are no more
>world hunger solves itself
>racial tensions finally subside
>populations balance
>cancer finally gets cured comercially
>elon is retired, passes his position to an autist he deems worthy
>SpaceX finally freed the world
>humanity can now colonize more solar systems

>>11317679
>>you don't need a rifled barre
>I think that's still needed for accuracy

Bullets spin to make them aerodynamically stable. No air means spin is unnecessary.

>>11317494
>What would be the ideal "self-defense" gun for space stations or bases?
A light gas gun. They shoot small hypervelocity projectiles that exceed escape velocity for most bodies (except your mom). It looks like a micrometer strike so you have plausible deniability.

Another realistic option is a cyber attack that fucks with the vehicle's orientation and loads up the reaction wheels/dumps propellant so it can't be fixed. Spacecraft need radiators, solar panels, and commo to point in the right direction or a bunch of shit goes wrong very fast. Spinning a big structure like ISS at a nontrivial rate will cause it and the inhabitants to fail.

>>11321537
The problem with LGG's is that they're very propellant inefficient and very heavy in general, they probably wouldn't make an overall good space gun.

>>11318486
Iridium seems to make it work in a package small enough to fit in a (big) pocket. I expect the installation will be comparable to DirecTV.

>>11318757
If we needed to get off this rock to save the species today you know we'd use it. It's our only viable megalift technology.

>>11321565
easier than DirecTV, you actually need to point that dish at the geosat, while Starlink only needs to be pointed vaguely upwards

>>11319648
You underestimate China's space program. That's not an American rover tooling around on the Moon today, and if you want to resolution surface images of the far side then you better read fucking Mandarin.

>>11319685
>Even the trans alaska pipeline which you call a marvel of engineering is essentially a big pipe with nothing inside it

Go calculate the inertia of 30km of crude oil moving through that pipe at 20m/s. It's not a trivial engineering problem.

>>11321532
If I weren't over 30 and drunk I might have the slightest fuck what you just said.

>>11319871
Orbital solar power. They need the power desperately and it will make them a world technology leader.

>>11321589
Orbital solar power for use on Earth is a retarded idea

>>11321587
>you wanted to say if you weren't a jew

>>11321669
I'm drunker now so what tf are you saying?

Nomadd just sold. There are no permanent residents left in Boca Chica Village.

>>11321413
>Fuck the SEC.

>>11321763
>Boca Chica Village

You mean spaceport one?

>>11321800
Boca Chica Spaceport

>>11320958
Virgin Galactic killed two people already. In the broad strokes things get delayed a few years and then continue as normal.

>>11320977
That's not a reference, that's a comparison and it's spot-on.
>"Hmm. I sure have been flying for quite some time. Should I check some instruments and see where I am? Nah. I must be in space by now"

>>11321807
*three

>>11321877
uwu this one looks even better than the last one.

>>11321001
What the fuck is with the UN logo? Is it some jewish conspiracy?

>>11321930
>wE aRe gOiNg tOgEthEr aS oNe!1!

>>11321930
I don't think Elon is part of the cabal bruh, he's a rogue element, look how he's fucking up megakikes entrenched industries.

>>11321934
Low IQ populations simply will not be able to survive off earth. Its an environment such that a tiny mistake will instantly kill you and the psychological pressures will be enormous. They can send all the nigs and poos they want but ultimately the only ones able to hack the environment will be whites and high IQ Asians (Japs, gooks) and a few of the smarter mixed types like hapas and castizos.

>>11321938
Did you see the logo of the render down in the bottom left corner? That's not the SpaceX logo, is it?

>>11321953
Gravitation Innovation, I did some basic research and it looks like an e store that sells shitty chink space merch and is run by a chink, don't think there is much to look into desu.

>>11321968
Well, now you know why there's all sorts of junk attached to that vaguely starship shaped render.

>>11322017
There's a cooming joke to be had there, but I can't be arsed.

>>11321930
Not an official SpaceX render. Artist took some liberties.
Also nice to know the UN symbol triggers /pol/fags into rambling about jewish world conspiracy. Wasn‘t aware of that so far.

>>11322027
Agenda 21 and agenda 2030 are literally UN conspiracies to replace native populations and move everyone into megacities, this information is freely available if you provide your Email for them to send the documents to you.

>>11322017
Push-pull propulsion when?

>>11321569
The ridiculous thing is, even if a massive asteroid guaranteed near complete destruction of the biosphere, you can bet there would still be left-wing environmentalists opposing our head of nuclear rockets due to
> muh environments

>>11322130
use of not head of

>>11321413
>haha the cows are confused

>>11321934
big cringe

>>11322147
That's the big slogan for Artemis.

>>11322156
I mean it isn’t, Artemis doesn’t have an official motto, but the line “this time we are going together, to stay” is often used by promotional material.

>>11320874
Kek

>>11322156
This time, together, for blacks, women, trannies, etc... to stay. Oh but only for American citizens and funded overwhelmingly by the taxpayer dollars of straight white men.

>>11322217
"Whitey already bin on da moon, it's our turn mufugga!"

>>11322130
There'd be more posturing from China and Russia about nukes in space and MUH TREATY!

>>11321968
>>11321974
>>11321953
https://www.gravitationinnovation.com/wallpaper
They have some okayish SpaceX wallpapers. Seems someone there is nerding out over SpaceX and has access to some 3D software.

>>11322238
You are brain damaged if you think both don't have some nuclear weapons in space of some capacity.

>>11322254
>missing the fucking point
holy shit lol

>>11322027
I'm the guy who posted the render. Anyone who goes "eeeeeh u pol so u bad" is disqualified from argumentation and should be seen the same way witches were seen during the 1600s-1700s.

>>11322256
Not an argument, enjoy your collapsing empire amerigoy.

>>11322251
That looks horrible.

>>11322254
That has nothing to do with political posturing or what was said.

>>11322261
You area moron and evidently English isn't your 1st language.

>>11322262

>>11321819
>Some time ago at Boeing India:
>-What do you mean "what if the timer is wrong"? The timer is implemented by a different team, it's not our responsibility. Stop asking stupid questions and move your hands, Rajesh.

>>11320564
>elite
endurance
clarity

>meh
fortitude

>shit
all the other leadership buzzwords

>>11322258
Spaceflight thread
>Jews are bad.
>No, you are pathetic and can‘t stay on topic.
>Wow, you sound like an asshole. At least engage with his ideas
Alright.
Let‘s discuss semitic conspiracies behind the united nations for the rest of this space flight thread. I‘m sure we‘ll all be much more enlightened and understanding of each other afterwards.

>>11322504
I mean, he DID start the UN bullshit, my 2 cents were only to call out the redditor going "GO BACK TO /POL/ EEEEEEEEH". I mean, some people are nuts, but come on, if you don't believe minecraft villagers have some sort of involvement in the world's current issues, you're basically blindfolding yourself on purpose. Even the muskrat got redpilled, and that was from a misunderstanding about the rich.

>>11322536
You need to go back, terrorist: >>>/pol/

>>11322566
Someone's not a terrorist unless they actually do something. No amount of silent hatred ever made anyone a terrorist.

>>11322287

>>11322287
>Putting the SÖY in Söyuz

OC, starlink train, yesterday.
One seems to be missing, might be the nonreflective coated one.

>>11322566
Fuck off redditor

New: >>11322820

>>11322820

>>11322820

>>11322820

>>11322027
What's so unbelievable about a group of people with a high in-group preference for one another maintaining positions of influence in news, banking, entertainment and government while practicing nepotism and decrying any critique of this practice as a form of racism?
Nobody's even hiding it, and they aren't even the only group who do this.