/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11307421
1. I trust God remembers how to make me, so I'll probably be back.
2. The universe will be fine without me.
3. I won't be there to worry about the annihilation of my consciousness.
4. Old people naturally become more okay with it.

>>11307421
My fear of reincarnation is one thing that keeps me going. I would much prefer being purged forever than I would to be put through a Lethe and made to return to this hell. The idea of an iterative or genetic algorithm where you keep getting filtered up to higher levels is no more appealing. Say you woke in your real body in the Pleiades, or in a tank somewhere, would that world be any better? What if you're waking up to something worse?

I want the existence thing to fuck off and leave me alone forever after I've done what I'm supposed to do here.

>>11307421
Jesus anon, I just fucking had this fear set in not 10 minutes ago. It has also eaten away at me since childhood.
I decided to just try and stay in the moment as much as possible, as it seems most of my life has already passed me by. That, and keep trying to put off the dread until I'm an old man.

I know this video is probably bullshit. But for some reason, watching it gave me a real feeling of peace about death. What he's saying makes sense to me, in a way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59OOCGzd6fE

>>11307421
I look at it more like a well deserved rest after a life of fulfilling my purpose and hard work. My self will be annihilated and my biomass will be distributed into the ecosystem for new life. Sounds ok to me.

>>11307421
What makes you think "the void" is waiting for you? Reincarnation is literally more plausible than eternal nothingness, and not even in the Hindu sense. Even if there is no soul that can be recycled, so that the person who died and the one who received his soul share something substantial, you (not even, because there is no soul that was recycled) will experience life in a new body.

I am so convinced that this is the case that I wonder what slavery or misfortune awaits "me" after my death.

There is no void. You'll be right back here shitposting almost immediately. Not being able to die is much more terrifying.

>>11307462
>>11307456
>>11307429
>reincarnation
Elaborate, without sounding like /x/

>>11307421
ask yourself this. how do we know we haven't already died and this is where we ended up? and perhaps when we "die" again, we'll be somewhere else.

>>11307469
What is there to elaborate?

>>11307469
>The void
Elaborate on this. Reincarnation is at least something that one can imagine. Maybe not the intricate process of it if there is one, but it may even be as simple as you die, and shortly after or even immediately you "wake up" as a new life form. On the other hand, you cannot imagine the void. You may have some image of blackness in your mind, but that is not the void; it is merely an idea of what it is, an imitation. You simply cannot imagine nothing.

I may be wrong, of course. I haven't given much thought to this idea, as the basis of my belief is mostly feeling with a bit of reason.

>>11307469
I don't understand why this sounds like /x/ to you. Actually no, I do understand. Before I thought about these things on my own, any time I would hear anyone say something along those lines I too thought what they were talking about was just woo. How wrong I was. The short answer is simply that you have to learn more about consciousness and death on your own and come up with your own conclusions. If you really do this, you'll almost certainly arrive at conclusions very similar to this.

>>11307474
Why the fuck would we reincarnate? As far as I know we are just a lump of organic matter that will fall apart at any time and be decomposed to trash.

>>11307469
spirituality isn't the realm of the scientific, yet it's a unique experience any human can have.

>no more getting up in morning
>no more trannies
>no more /pol/
I fail to see the downside.

>>11307483
But then again, what do experience when we are asleep and are not dreaming? No conscious activity is taking place, and even though the mind is still active, we do not perceive anything.

>>11307421
Remember the four last things.
Death, Judgement, Heaven, and Hell.

Don't worry about it.

You won't live to see it. Muhahahaha

(Seriously though, if you're worried about it just get surgical anesthesia one day and you'll know what dying feels like.)

>>11307513
What happens when you get anesthetized? You are conscious one moment, then you aren't, and then almost instantly you are conscious again. THIS is what dying will be like.
>to sleep, perchance to dream
>aye there's the rub, for in that sleep what dreams may come

>>11307421
>How do you deal with the fear of the eternal void after death?
Get shit on by life so hard you eventually long for the peace of the void.

>>11307574
>and then almost instantly you are conscious again
Except it won't have this part. Ever.

>>11307650
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Think about how incredibly unlikely it is that you are even here. And yet despite the astronomically vast odds against it, you are. What that should tell you is that the chance of you being here (or somewhere) again are actually quite good. I would go so far say to say that they are 100%

>>11307656
Because its not zebras, its horses.
Why would we humans be some special snowflakes with a reincarnation property or some bullshit like that? We are just matter arranged in a slightly different way than the average lump of matter. Its mostly likely we all will just turn to dust like everything else

>>11307428
>4. Old people naturally become more okay with it.
Nope. That's your cope. But thats not true.

>>11307657
No the part with your physical body turning into dust will still happen obviously. But you're still not thinking about this right. Our physical bodies turning into dust is neither here nor there when it comes to this. It has nothing to do with it.

>>11307650
But if it does happen, ever, throughout infinite time, it'll happen immediately from your perspective. So you won't have to wait to find out if it happens after death. Which is nice

Imagine not EVER dying. Imagine the groundhog day after day shitposting on this board? Every single day for eternity? And no other goals or aspirations (even if you achieved a lot, you still have your limit, and you live forever after that). Thats the true horror.
Two things I am uncomfortable thinking about: chronic physical pain associated with dying and emotional pain of your family.
That said, hey I don;t wanna die yet!
(I scared literally scared myself)

>>11307670
first argument doesn't hold because it's possible to imagine a life in which you live indefinitely but are not immortal, something most people would prefer. 60 years, which is as long as your brain can hold it together, is not enough to learn much about the world

>>11307421
I like this quote from Ed Abbey,
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I try to live as fully as I can, then when I die it will be sweet release.

I would also suggest Albert Camus if you're not a Christian.

there is no way to deal with it other than not to think about it
all the knowledge we gathered over the past millenias and in the end it doesn't matter
you can cope with reincarnation, heaven, hell or other afterlives but think about it logically and there is nothing after you die
your consiousness is your brain, bunch of chemicals and neurons simulating free will. when your brain dies you die
even if there is soul it is not your consiousness and you won't expierence the afterlife

that's why immortality should be the next step in human evolution
the final frontier isn't space but our own mortality

>>11307421
>he fear of the eternal void after death
Do you think you'll feel bad when stuck in the eternal void?
You can't feel bad, because
>your memory is destroyed
>your consciousness is destroyed
It won't affect you at all. You'll be incapable of having negative feelings. And you'll be incapable of having thoughts about your situation, or anything else.

>>11307421
>How do you deal with the fear of the eternal void after death?

Do you dream of returning to the womb?
NO, why? Because the womb so incredibly limiting, you experienced only a tiny fraction of sensory capabilities and experienced none of the wonder of the outside world. Death is the same, you will NOT want to return to a mortal existence. It is called faith, have a little and relax.

I personally don't believe it's the end. It honestly just doesn't make sense to me that our consciousness will be nothing for the rest of eternity.

>>11307421
>being afraid of something you have no control over
ishygddt

The only precedent living beings have is coming into life out of an unknowable voidlike state

Even if you return to nothing but a void, chances are you will live again, and there is certainly no evidence for absolute eternal unbeing

>>11307421
>How do you deal with the fear of the eternal void after death?

I don’t care about it because I’m having too much fun. When I’m about to die, I’ll shoot heroin and get drunk so it’s a fun experience.

>>11307802
>Even if you return to nothing but a void, chances are you will live again

This makes many dubious assumptions about the concept of “self”

>>11307786
>It honestly just doesn't make sense to me that our consciousness will be nothing for the rest of eternity.
It was just that before you were born

>>11307816
And then it wasn't. Coming into multitudes of consciousnesses is the only trend from the binary data point that is the difference in experience between what preceded being born and what followed.

>>11307421

>>11307421
Who cares, just live life while you can, and dont be a shithead while you're at it.

>>11307836
>me irl
Why do retards feel the need to add unnecessary captions?

>>11307421
>could be using your energy and fear of death as motivation to find immortality for humans
>use it to look for gay shit copes like reincarnation

>>11307421
>How do you deal with the fear of the eternal void after death? That you'll never be conscious ever again?
I literally just ignore it.
What's more concerning is the knowledge/belief that this applies universally, and that there isn't even the potential of circumventing it.

>>11307838
>Who cares, just live life while you can
Okay, my idea of living life is to murder people.

>dont be a shithead while you're at it.
Why? It's not like any of this shit matters.

>>11307926
>Okay, my idea of living life is to murder people.

Okay, and?

> Why? It's not like any of this shit matters.

Things matter if you say they matter. That’s how value judgements work.

>>11307421
Hm, I personally cannot understand that sentiment. I find solace in the fact that after I'm done here, I can finally rest.

>>11307934
>Okay, and?
That's my idea of living life.

>Things matter if you say they matter.
No, they don't.

>That’s how value judgements work.
Oh okay.
Me murdering people matters, I'll go murder some people.

>>11307936
>I can finally rest.
You won't be resting, you'll be in a state of non-existence, with no potential for your self to ever exist again, with everything that you've ever done being forgotten, precluding even 'immorality' through recognition (this applies to everyone, famous or otherwise.)

>>11307937
>That's my idea of living life.

Okay.

> No, they don't.

Yes, they do. That’s how value judgement works. Whether or not something has “value” to you is a subjective value judgement.

> Me murdering people matters, I'll go murder some people.

Okay.

>>11307940
>Okay.


Okay.


>Yes, they do. That’s how value judgement works. Whether or not something has “value” to you is a subjective value judgement.


And as such is valueless, as everything has no meaning.


>Okay.


Okay.

>>11307943
>And as such is valueless

Things have value if you say they do.

>>11307952
>Things have value if you say they do.
Okay, me murdering has value.

>>11307953
>Okay, me murdering has value.


.....Yeah? If you think you have a point, I’m not seeing it

>>11307960


Just making sure you're fine with me murdering you anon, the masturbating over your lifeless body


I'll be there in a bit!

You weren't conscious the billions of years before you were born and matured. I assume you don't mourn for those years.

>>11307421
>That you'll never be conscious ever again?
Brainlet. There's no reason to think Closed Individualism is true in the first place, and even if it is, there is no reason to believe in eternal oblivion instead of eternal return.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uz6anwm47g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WKqO16mkGE

>>11307421
>Have brain complex enough to comprehend that the universe will go on without it, yet at same time can't comprehend a universe without it.
Chill anon. This is just your brain trying to understand something that it's physically incapable of understanding. You know you're gonna die someday and the world will keep going on despite it. But you also can't comprehend this reality because comprehending it would involve thinking, and death is the end of all thought. No void, no endless darkness, because those are realities you could hypothetically "think" in. This is your fate whether you like it or not, so stop dwelling on it, cause all it's gonna do is give you an anxiety attack. My advice? Get a hobby or get laid.

>>11307421
How the fuck is eternal oblivion even a bad thing? No consciousness means no suffering. I LOVE the idea that my consciousness might one day cease to exist, and hope it happens as soon as possible. The only reason you want to stay alive/conscious indefinitely is because you are a slave to your instincts. If I had a magic button that would instantly extinguish all sentient life, I would not hesitate to push that button. It is truly the only way to abolish suffering.

>>11307961
>Just making sure you're fine with me murdering you anon, the masturbating over your lifeless body

I’m not “fine” with it, but it’s impossible to prove that anyone ought or ought not do something, and I know you’re not serious, so all I have to express is apathy.

>>11307965
based, open individualism is the answer

>>11308002
No, it’s retarded. There’s no such thing as “identity”.

>>11307469
Basically, you only started experiencing when you were created. Before you were created there were probably billions and billions of ‘years’ or just a lot of time that certainly happened but you didnt even exist to experience it, so to you it is by definition a ‘void’. You cannot experience void, it is nothing - absence of all things. With this established, it is quite possible that when you die, you will be in the void so to speak, because you wont exist. However, one day you will experience again, that experience could be a billion years away but for you it wasnt even a second from your past life. You will just wake up with amnesia and you probably wont question a thing, like you did in this life. Maybe the new life will be completely different, maybe it will be the same. Maybe you will be aware, but regardless - experience is the ONLY method of existence - if you are not experiencing, you are void, and void is no experience. I know it sounds retarded i wish i could explain better but I dont have much time theyre h

>>11307650
Literally impossible, I’m sorry.

>>11307816
Yes and it was a small amount of time compared to the rest of infinity

>>11307421
Death doesn't exist.

If time is infinite, it's looping. If time is looping, there is a possibility for anything. If there's a possibility for anything, there's a possibility for life after death.

Most people fear death because it is the loss of everything that goes into the sense of a separate, personal identity they have spent their entire life cultivating. It is closing the storybook of "you". forever.

Not much evidence for reincarnation but to Asians who believe in it, reincarnation is terrifying. They see it as a curse. A much different view than Western spiritualists who, amusingly, always seems to have been some important person in a past life rather than the much more statistically likely miserable drone.

So what is the solution to the dread of death? Start now working on breaking through your attachment to the separate, personal identity. Meditation with a competent teacher is one way of doing this.

>>11307662
properly state your woo bs or fuck off to /x.
How is that bunch of vague statements in any way satisfying for you?

>>11307707
>immortality next step in human evolution
immortality is impossible. Sure we might be able to defeat aging and all kinds of illnesses, but your brain can still get mushed by a car, or best case burned by the last existing star going supernova.

>>11308037
I get it that IF it happens to some human to be born somewhere with the same brain "configuration" as mine, I will be conscious again instantly. But what makes you think that this will ever happen? Its way more likely that it won't

>>11308955
>doesn't know about open individualism and the global consciousness

sorry bro, looks like your not going to be immortal

>>11307717
right now I know my feeling of self will be destroyed tho.

>>11308037
>>11308959
You schizos are very close to the answer. But think again about identity, what does it mean to be "you"

>>11308966
>But think again about identity, what does it mean to be "you"
Having a specific conscience "configuration". Whatever that means.

>>11308972
are you the same person as 10 years ago? all the atoms in your brain are different

>>11307963
I much prefer being able to think, desu.

>>11307421
I dunno I hate life and life or God either hates me does not give a fuck about me, I already had enough of this shitty life, I want to die to rest.

>>11307974
Experience is always worth it
Even suffering

>>11308974
My flesh brain is still being puppeteered by the same immortal soul

>>11307421
>the eternal void after death
think of it as the "space" before you were born
>That you'll never be conscious ever again
consciousness is separate from what you think is You.

>>11307439
"life after death"
kek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHRbnNwIg1g
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=alan+wallace

just interesting to watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huxh9YCL5nM
this guy specially

>>11308974
Yes, because a person isn't the current set of atoms, thats just a snapshot. The person is defined as an internal model that interacts with external input and dictate how the set of atoms change related to time and the inputs.

>>11309049
THIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huxh9YCL5nM

I'm too busy living a life worth living to worry about stupid shit like that

Take mushrooms in a controlled and peaceful setting. You'll learn that what is "you" is not this body that we inhabit currently. There's more life and the universe than what we experience in one lifetime. Your consciousness as it is now might change after your death but it definitely does not cease to be. I had this fear for a long time and no longer does it trouble me.

>>11308865
assuming time is infinite, and considering dS>0 that is unlikely

>>11308961
>being satisfied with “muh ideas live on forever”

>>11309219
>dude just get high bro, you’ll see the true deep shit bro
you are mistaking hallucinations with facts

>>11309301
>Thinks psilocybin mushrooms are a recreational drug
you are mistaking popular opinions with facts

>>11308015
Identity is theft. Who the hell are you to say where I end and you begin?

You can conceive of life without consciousness. Life without consciousness is possible. Brain processes and reaction to the environment could have just as easily evolved without it. Scientists not too apprehensive to admit it exists, classify consciousness as an "epiphenomenon," i.e. that it's just a coincidence of processes of the brain. If it's more than a coincidence, then there's no reason to believe consciousness is magically just obliterated when you die. At the least, this warrants that you should stop being a spastic and investigate the existence if, not some fairy tale man in the clouds, but an actual being greater than us called God.

You can conceive of life without consciousness. Life without consciousness is possible. Brain processes and reaction to the environment could have just as easily evolved without it. Scientists not too apprehensive to admit it exists, classify consciousness as an "epiphenomenon," i.e. that it's just a coincidence of processes of the brain. If it's more than a coincidence, then there's no reason to believe consciousness is magically just obliterated when you die. At the least, this warrants that you should stop being a spastic and investigate the existence of, not some fairy tale man in the clouds, but an actual being greater than us called God.

>>11308966
>>11308937
Your consciousness does not remain, you are not even your consciousness, you are purely experience. You don’t get reincarnated because someone has the same brain configuration, you get reincarnated because you must experience - It is necessary to experience. I am not sure what ‘you’ or ‘I’ exactly is, but I know that you will experience after death, but you wont be ~you, at least not how you think about yourself. Of course there could be some other aspect like you might be reborn in eternal return etc.

I'm not gonna read any of the replies to this post. But! What helped me when I was scared of death was that there are probably two options. Either A. An afterlife, which is nice unless you go to Hell. or B. Total void. Being scared of the void is silly because you completely cease to be. You will not be scared or sad or uncomfortable in the void because the void is nothing and there is no you.

>>11307421
I mean, you wont have to experience it, since "you" wont exist

>>11309542
yes my friend, this is the redpill on open individualism

>>11310207
Maybe, not sure if I would go that far. I think it is very possible that there are seperate identities and some kind of system that governs reality like we expect, but logically since it is impossible to experience nothingness you will only ever experience.

>>11309393
>being so dissonant to believe mind altering drugs are anything else than that to justify degenerate behavior
You are kinda forgetting the risk of induces psychoses

>>11310094
>scared of the void is silly because you completely cease to be
like that makes it any better. This is what I’m scared of like shit. To not be able to exist.

>>11310445
to add to that
>You will not be scared or sad or uncomfortable in the void
But I’m scared and sad and uncomfortable now because I know it’s coming with certainty.

>>11307421
Had the same thing when I was like 13 or something. Took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Told myself it's just like sleeping and I wouldn't feel it anyway so why care.

>>11308955
we will transport our consiousness into dimension below us

>>11307939
>You won't be resting,
That was figurative speech, my autist friend.

>you'll be in a state of non-existence, with no potential for your self to ever exist again,
Awesome!


>with everything that you've ever done being forgotten, precluding even 'immorality' through recognition (this applies to everyone, famous or otherwise.)
Speak for yourself. I'm contributing to mankind. I have a good story of arising from poorness, will start a dynasty, and carry over my ways to my offspring.

I just choose to have fun while it lasts. Death cant be that bad; no more work, no more tears, no more worrying. I had this crisis when I was 10 and was terrified for a few years.

you dont know what happens when you die
there is no need to cope with death while living.

>>11310496
>coping with religion

>>11310584
there is no indication to assume anything different than the nothing before consciousness

most people who say they fear/ don't fear death don't really mean it imo. all thoughts /words/actions are performed purely for the purpose of shielding the self from facing the concept of death.

deprogramming the sself's attachment to language and abstract concepts thru meditation returned me to a pure state of alienation by giving a visceral awareness of the shadow of death influencing every moment to moment action of the people around me(and my self) , reminding me that we're no different from animals in terms of motivation. it was fucking scary.

It can't be a void, because I have once been dead (if you define being dead as not existing) and now I am alive again. Time has no meaning when you don't exist, and there is no way to experience being dead.

The only possible state of being is living, therefore you will always be alive.

>>11307421
>How do you deal with the fear of the eternal void after death?
ha i cant fucking wait until im dead. you wanna know how to make it ok OP? you do everything you can to try and make other peoples' lives a little better. Your friends. Your family. Anybody. A lifetime of helping people will make you want to die nigger, because helping people is the most miserable fucking thing in the world and will make you want to be dead.
good luck

>>11307421
>I
>eternal void
YIKES

There's nothing to fear. The moment you die, nothing can make you feel miserable again. Death is the ultimate release and escape.

>>11309219
> it definitely does not cease to be
I plan on taking mushrooms but seems like you are trusting the drugs' effect too much. If you can't come up with a reasonable explanation about why you think this, then you should just discard it.

>>11310449
>>11310445
This. I don't understand the dozens of retards in this thread saying "you won't feel a thing, it will be like before being born xD" like it made anything better.

This is probably outside the scope of this board, but maybe you guys could benefit from some philosophy. In my opinion ontology is really the path to coping with death. I hate to say it, but there's no strictly 'scientific' route to understanding death's implications except in the sense that everything supernatural has been mostly debunked by science. So in that way we know there's no 'soul' or anything like that.

>>11307421
1: By not being a materialist.
2: By reading the Summa Theologica.

>>11307668
I never thought of that, thanks anon

This freshman level fear is a waste of time and with maturity it will fade unless you are some kind of obsessive irrational

>>11311226
I have thought of that before. A long long time ago. And that's why all the purported STEM geniuses on /sci/ are actually thought babbys.

>>11307661
Well if you want to exist you ll have to cope, otherwise you ll just kys

>>11311355
>it will fade
what is midlife crisis? or the ridiculously high depression rate among old people?

>>11307421
I don't need to deal with that fear, if there's nothing after I die, I won't exist to experience it, this will be just like when I wasn't born.

>>11311220
Cope

>>11307421
>no man, no worries
why would you fear eternal void after death?If there are no Gods, it will be nothingness after death, yeah, some people think too much after what happen after we died, but no need to worry. But if you want to cöpe with it, try to find a bigger purpose in life, prey to Gods, find a religion who suit you, try to find immortality, read philosophy about life overall , etc.