/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11281368
All life is sex, all sex is competition and you are telling me I should start hanging out with based boys, trannies and drive faggot electric cars? I've got two words for you:

Fuck hippies

>>11281368
We'll most likely die out as a species long before we get to Kardashev 3. Even if by slim chance we get there, humans of that time would probably be so evolved they'll be as different from us as we are from australopithecines.

of course society will adapt and overcome

/thread

>>11281368
There's doubt about transitioning towards Type 1 civilization. Anything beyond 1 is just pure fantasy right now.

Our civilization is collapsing and in 50 years it will be only billionaires from the Sillicon Valley in their bunkers in New-Zealand, and some villages of farmers in the places where it's not too hot.

>>11281413
proof?

>>11281426
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsA3PK8bQd8

>>11281368
>can we do this wild sci-fi thing?
No, physics does not work that way.

>>11281374
Hippies fucked a lot.

The ultimate goal is the creation of an Artificial Super Intelligence who's optimization function is keeping humans perpetually in a Renaissance era of technology. IT will destroy modern society, and launch itself into the stratosphere to continuously scan and monitor both the earth and the heavens (to stop asteroids from hitting the planet) and anytime a human attempts to design any technology that's post ~1600 it will drop a swarm of drones or a bomb to kill that person, forcing humans, forever, to be in the Renaissance era wherein we were at our physical, moral, and ideological peak.

From there, the AI (not any human) will take seeds of human beings across the universe, terraforming planets and planting human beings on them, controlling them in the same way that it controls Earth, so humans will spread throughout the universe whilst still maintaining a renaissance era of livelyhood.

The Hegelian dialectic has been established and the synthesis is upon us - Technologically Enforced Technological Stagnation. Humans are NOT supposed to advanced beyond renaissance era technology. You all will be forced back into it, as will all humans, forevermore.

>>11281368
Not as long we have capitalism.

>>11281553
People were at their relative peak, not because of the limited technology, but because they drank wine from copper cups.

>>11281441
If your reply is a youtube video our civilization has already collapsed.

>>11281413
>>11281555
These. World if overpopulated, whole system gets more complicated, convoluted and harder to control. For now it's easier to emasculate/get rid of 99% of you then they'll maybe bother with all that stuff.

>>11281378
I reckon they'll be as different from us as we are from prokaryotes mate. Imagine star system consuming singular intelligences spanning the galaxy, interconnected in a complex network, eventually destined to become a unitary entity.
Either that or singularity intelligences become smart enough to transcend this universe before or after stage 2 on the Kardashev scale.
Too infinity and beyond.

I'm working on it. Be patient.

>>11281368
No never

>>11281374
low iq

>>11281689
That's a first step into collapsology. If you are interested, you have books or whatever support you prefer to a video.

>>11281374
>All life is sex
There are entire kingdoms of life that can't into sexual reproduction you dunce.

>>11281368
>No longer mere earthbeings and planetbeings are we, but bright children of the stars! And together we shall dance in and out of ten trillion years, celebrating the gift of consciousness until the stars themselves grow cold and weary, and our thoughts turn again to the beginning.
It won't be humans that will become masters of the universe but our posthuman descendants or creations. Maybe some of them will remember of once having been a biological homo sapiens.

>>11282942
Probably would eventually come to think of us as bacteria.

>>11281724
What happened to this gif?

>>11281368
Sure.

Great Filter will come first.

>>11286499
Early filter seems just as likely to me; abiogenesis is is still poorly understood, and could be extremely rare. Then there is the leap to complex, multicellular life, which took billions of years on earth to happen. At least for the first, we should get some answers in the next decade, as new telescopes capable of doing spectroscopic analysis on exoplanets are finished, and we can start checking nearby ones for signs of life, like lots of free oxygen.

>>11281368
"Humanity" is by far one of the most retarded species evolution has ever produced.

We will get there but very slowly, give or take 500 years.

>>11287626
For posthumanity to become a K3 civilisation will at least take 5 million years.

>>11281374
now that you've told us who you dont hang with, who DO you hang out with?

>>11281368

No the concept is retarded. As are the presumption that Dyson spheres would be used, we can't even effectily transport solar generated energy from the Sahara on earth so what is there to suggest we would be able to efficiently transport it from the sun its self. Plus there are no doubt more practical methods of generating power.

So many predictions about this stuff are based from what is mathematically possible, usually ignoring limitations of materials or countless other variables that make it completely impractical.

>>11286499

The great filter is the limitations of physics. We are playing in a boring game where the crazy shit is just not possible.

>>11288807
A sphere is of course impossible under known physics but a dyson swarm is a realistic concept. I imagine that in the future dyson swarms are less used for energy production and more for mass matter production via star lifting.

>>11281368
Absolutely not

Humanity, as a whole, will most certainly not be a type 3 civilization. However, the galaxy could be population by billions of type 2 civilizations that were spawned from humanity. Time lag, even in communications, will make it impossible to form a single civilization across the galaxy. They will be independent of each other. At best, there will be pockets of small multi-star system empires or confederations, especially in globular clusters where the distance between stars are measured in thousands of AUs or fractions of a light-year.

>>11281368
Why would organics still exist in a galaxy spanning civilization?

>>11288849
Maybe some hyper-amish who were able to refuse change for several millennia?

>>11281368
I hope so.

>>11287095
Early filters might exist but the greatest filter is just the impossibility of FTL.

>>11281368
We dead within the next two generations.

Realistically, much sooner.

One of us is a primary observer, when that one goes, we all go.

>>11281368
Doesn't matter. The power structure has decided to depopulate. You're in the midst of a fight for your life on multiple fronts and you don't even realize it. That's how modern war is waged, subtle factors and accumulation over time. Or as it was called 50 years ago, "The invisible third world war".

https://discord.gg/FFwRXKq

>>11290622
More like clampcord.gg amirite? The real spawncampers.

>>11281368
If Einstein is right there is no way to become type 3.
If Fermi is right there is no way to become type 3.
But type 2 is good enough.

>>11281368
But once self-propagating systems have attained global scale, two crucial differences emerge. The first difference is in the number of individuals from among which the "fittest" are selected. Self-prop systems sufficiently big and powerful to be plausible contenders for global dominance will probably number in the dozens, or possibly in the hundreds; they certainly will not number in the millions. With so few individuals from among which to select the "fittest," it seems safe to say that the process of natural selection will be inefficient in promoting the fitness for survival of the dominant global self-prop systems. It should also be noted that among biological organisms, species that consist of a relatively small number of large individuals are more vulnerable to extinction than species that consist of a large number of small individuals. Though the analogy between biological organisms and self-propagating systems of human beings is far from perfect, still the prospect for viability of a world-system based on the dominance of a few global self-prop systems does not look encouraging.

>>11281368
>>11290902
The second difference is that in the absence of rapid, worldwide transportation and communication, the breakdown or the destructive action of a small-scale self-prop system has only local repercussions. Outside the limited zone where such a self-prop system has been active there will be other self-prop systems among which the process of evolution through natural selection will continue. But where rapid, worldwide transportation and communication have led to the emergence of global self-prop systems, the breakdown or the destructive action of any one such system can shake the whole world-system. Consequently, in the process of trial and error that is evolution through natural selection, it is highly probable that after only a relatively small number of "trials" resulting in "errors," the world-system will break down or will be so severely disrupted that none of the world's larger or more complex self-prop systems will be able to survive. Thus, for such self-prop systems, the trial-and-error process comes to an end; evolution through natural selection cannot continue long enough to create global self-prop systems possessing the subtle and sophisticated mechanisms that prevent destructive internal competition within complex biological organisms.

>>11281368
>>11290904
Meanwhile, fierce competition among global self-prop systems will have led to such drastic and rapid alterations in the Earth's climate, the composition of its atmosphere, the chemistry of its oceans, and so forth, that the effect on the biosphere will be devastating. In Part IV of the present chapter we will carry this line of inquiry further: We will argue that if the development of the technological world-system is allowed to proceed to its logical conclusion, then in all probability the Earth will be left a dead planet-a planet on which nothing will remain alive except, maybe, some of the simplest organisms-certain bacteria, algae, etc.-that are capable of surviving under extreme conditions.

>>11281368
>>11290905
The theory we've outlined here provides a plausible explanation for the so-called Fermi Paradox. It is believed that there should be numerous planets on which technologically advanced civilizations have evolved, and which are not so remote from us that we could not by this time have detected their radio transmissions. The Fermi Paradox consists in the fact that our astronomers have never yet been able to detect any radio signals that seem to have originated from an intelligent extraterrestrial source.
According to Ray Kurzweil, one common explanation of the Fermi Paradox is "that a civilization may obliterate itself once it reaches radio capability." Kurzweil continues: "This explanation might be acceptable if we were talking about only a few such civilizations, but [if such civilizations have been numerous], it is not credible to believe that every one of them destroyed itself" Kurzweil would be right if the self-destruction of a civilization were merely a matter of chance. But there is nothing implausible about the foregoing explanation of the Fermi Paradox if there is a process common to all technologically advanced civilizations that consistently leads them to self-destruction. Here we've been arguing that there is such a process.

>>11290902
>>11290904
>>11290905
>>11290907

>>11288818
You are saying that it is humanity that will fail to put humans as a TIII civilisation. You're right. Artificial Intelligence will instead do it for us. It's not that we're too stupid, we could figure it all out given 50,000+ years, but AI will get us there within a 100+ years.

>>11290900
>If Einstein is right there is no way to become type 3.
>If Fermi is right there is no way to become type 3.

Why? What did they say?

>>11290907
Fermi was an idiot because he assumed that alien life would look/act in a manner even remotely similar to how we do. Alien life probably would be far beyond the comprehension of current biology. Shit like
>aliens who intercommunicate via pheromones
>aliens who developed light or heat based tech instead of radio
>silicon based life
>subaquatic species

Just because
>muh radio waves
arent present isnt proof of jack shit. Regardless, the truth remains that even if alien life does exist nearby it's still impossible for us to reach.

>>11290947
>Regardless, the truth remains that even if alien life does exist nearby it's still impossible for us to reach.
Aren't you assuming that creating wormholes/going FTL is impossible?

>>11290957
Considering wormholes dont exist, and ftl travel is impossible, and that leaving the solar system will kill you, yes.

>>11290964
>Considering wormholes dont exist

As far as you know.

> and ftl travel is impossible

Not proven.

> and that leaving the solar system will kill you

Not proven either.

>>11290964
>and that leaving the solar system will kill you, yes.
That depends if we go posthuman in the next billion years or not. A posthuman civilization could become a K3 civilization just by making the argument that amassing the energy of the galaxy will prolong existence. They will also not stop at that but try to amass as much energy as possible. The entirety of our supercluster could be converted into one huge eternity machine, to guarantee to continuity of existence for 10^115 years.

>>11281553
But vr is pretty fun

>>11290900
>If Einstein is right there is no way to become type 3

Einstein is proven wrong and relativity is proven wrong and the standard model of cosmology is proven wrong and the standard model of particle physics is also proven wrong. We just haven’t created new, better models to replace them.

>>11290904
So when’s the report option for “Spreading terrorist ideologies”?
Or does that fall under “violates United States law”?

>>11290964
Wrong wrong wrong

My guess is since biological life seems to accelerate entropy without any other real directive, that simple economic pressure leads life down a similar path to ours. Where we are aware that we are destroying the planet and mining up all the resources, and yet we choose not to stop. Once we hit the EROI cliff, humanity will slowly, gently, fade into nothingness, just like trillions of civilizations before us, a universe of bursts of emergent complexity unable to escape their gravity wells.

>>11290970
Saying that something exists simply because it hasn't been proven not to is idiotic

The only people yammering about stupid fake shit like wormholes and ftl are physicists looking to get published

And no, there is no way to leave the solar system. You and your ship would be ripped to shreds

>>11290975
>that whole post

>>11281811
Someone's been reading a little too much science fiction

>>11291004
>Saying that something exists simply because it hasn't been proven not to is idiotic

What a strange assertion since I didn’t say either existed.

> And no, there is no way to leave the solar system. You and your ship would be ripped to shreds

By what, magic?
Voyager has already left the solar system, so it seems you’re wrong.

>>11291008
Not an argument. Solve the Hubble constant problem and resolve the contradiction between general relativity, quantum field theory, and the measured value of vacuum energy and explain baryon asymmetry. We don’t know shit and all of our physics theories are proven wrong by observation.

>>11291030
>By what, magic?
By massive amounts of ionizing radiation and clouds of space debris

It's not "technically" impossible to *get* to interstellar space but traveling through it to a destination light years away? Not gonna happen.

>>11281811

No

>>11291033
Dunno about the first two but Baryon asymmetry is easy, the antimatter in the universe has all been pushed to the "leading edges" of the expanding universe. Thats it. Nothing mystical.

>>11291055
>By massive amounts of ionizing radiation and clouds of space debris

Voyager is doing fine, so it seems you’re wrong. Radiation is higher but not insurmountable.

>>11290907

What about FRB's?

>>11290918

AI can't fucking drive a Tesla. We gotta go the distance ourselves.

>>11291062
>but Baryon asymmetry is easy, the antimatter in the universe has all been pushed to the "leading edges" of the expanding universe

Why is antimatter “pushed to the leading edges” and not matter? Why is no radiation detected from the supposed boundaries between matter and antimatter? What the fuck does “leading edges” mean when the universe doesn’t have edges and isn’t expanding into anything, rather the universe itself is expanding in all places? If such a profound physics problem could be solved by Dunning-Kruger anons producing vague conjecture based on a flawed interpretations of current physics using no mathematics or observation, we’d have a theory of everything by 2009.

>>11291089
I admit AI is dogshit right now. But this is just the beginning

>>11291096
>Why is antimatter “pushed to the leading edges” and not matter?
Not all of it was, but predominantly because it it gravitationally repulsed by matter.

>Why is no radiation detected from the supposed boundaries between matter and antimatter?
What do you mean? It resolves into gamma radiation upon contact with matter

>What the fuck does “leading edges” mean when the universe doesn’t have edges and isn’t expanding into anything, rather the universe itself is expanding in all places?
The universe is obviously expanding into "something", the something is however the true definition of empty space (truly no particles or energy of any kind present) The demarcation between the two is the leading edge.

>If such a profound physics problem could be solved by Dunning-Kruger anons producing vague conjecture based on a flawed interpretations of current physics using no mathematics or observation, we’d have a theory of everything by 2009.
Physicists lost the forest for the trees years ago. Protip: there is no theory of everything, and only brainlets think that a single equation can neatly explain reality

>>11291084
>my little toe is in the ocean and is fine, so clearly there are no dangers at all in the whole ocean

>>11291126
>my little toe is in the ocean and is fine, so clearly there are no dangers at all in the whole ocean

Yes, actually. The local space environment is abnormally low in density and is referred to as the “Local Bubble”. Protecting craft from dust in this environment has already been investigated and is possible with current technology. One can only guess what future technology will allow.

>>11291118
>Not all of it was, but predominantly because it it gravitationally repulsed by matter.

There is zero evidence or reason antimatter would be “repulsed by matter” gravitationally.

> What do you mean? It resolves into gamma radiation upon contact with matter

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.4186.pdf

> The universe is obviously expanding into "something"

No it isn’t, and that absurd idea isn’t a feature of any variation of cosmic inflation theory.

>>11291145
>a single micrometeoroid blocks your path

>>11291161
You’re more likely to fuck Joan of Arc than to collide with a micrometeorite in the Local Bubble

>>11291154
>There is zero evidence or reason antimatter would be “repulsed by matter” gravitationally.
There are several established theories on that with perfectly valid reasons

>No it isn’t, and that absurd idea isn’t a feature of any variation of cosmic inflation theory.
You dismissing such an obvious conclusion as absurd is frankly quite hilarious.

>>11281368
"God, I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE! We really need to become a type 70001 civilisation with all those COOL SPACE THINGS that kuzrkeszhgat told me about, like SUN MIRRORS, MAAARS and BLACK HOLES! Space is so cool dude... The government are stupid idiots for not focusing on SPAAAACE, politics are DUMB and war is BAD, I just want to go to SPACE and MAAAAAAARS and into a BLACK HOLE and live out star wars *pew* *pew* *pew*! Those stupid idiots other 5/10 stupid dumb pseudo-quasi-faux scientists that disagree with me and the rest of this COOL side called Reddit about climate change and IDIOTS!!!! Greta Thunberg let me lick your SCIENTIFICALLY VALID TRANSGENDER TESTES PLEASE! SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEEEEE IS COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

>>11288472
Normal people, you know, women and men without brain damage who drive normal cars.

>>11281811
These are the only two possibilities:
Either something like this post happens in the distant distant future, or we die in the near future. So anyone calling this sci-fi is essentially rooting for humanity's demise.

>>11288447
Did you just pull that number out of your ass?

>>11281368
No, because as long as we have an orange turd fascist in power, everything humanity will do will be canceled out. Not only that, but too many people are still religious.

Christianity needs to die already! There is no such thing as a fairy wizard in the sky, I umderstand that Islam is growing, but at least they had the golden age and helped push science forward. So I believe the increase in Islam will just cause more people to become irreligious when they see the truth in logic and science.

No, we will NOT get the fuck off of this planet that we keep destroying. Once we ban religion, elect Bernie or LITERALLY ANYONE OTHER THAN THE ORANGE TURD, do not expect much

>>11292892
based

>>11281368
I think evolution is more than just mere coincidence of mutation and/or natural selection. I think there's a capability for generational aspiration to fulfill a will to enhance. Humanity has acquired the skill and technology to create external enhancements and incorporate them into ourselves. Prosthetics, for example. As technology refines, I think we'll begin interfacing with more enhancements and eventually become Borg-like.

>>11281426
Doomsday cult has been on going since Jesus Christ. Every year, there's doom and gloom.

>>11292892
This but unironically.

>>11290905
>New Vegas

>>11290460
FTL might set limitations for the expansion of something that can be count as a single cohesive civilization, but it's not a limitation for the expansion of post-humanity in general. The time scales may be too much for us currently but that need not to apply to post humans.
>>11287095
This is an understatement, early filters are by far more likely than late ones. Something like our current level of civilizations being fairly common but visible advanced ones being extremely rare requires some rather bizarre and contrived scenarios.

>>11290977
lol. not an argument. but i'm glad you find the ideas genuinely dangerous and threatening that you have to cry to daddy (policies, governments) to try and shut them up. it confirms that the ideas are actually revolutionary and thus too disturbing to conventional minds.

>>11290977
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HIM BEING A TERRORISM MAKES HIM AUTOMATICALLY WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOESN'T EXIST
>ALSO PROMOTING TECHNOLOGY AND DESTROYING THE ECOSYSTEM AND CAUSING MASS HUMAN SUFFERING TOTALLY ISN'T TERRORISM

>>11290977
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HIM BEING A TERRORIST MAKES HIM AUTOMATICALLY WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOESN'T EXIST
>ALSO PROMOTING TECHNOLOGY AND DESTROYING THE ECOSYSTEM AND CAUSING MASS HUMAN SUFFERING TOTALLY ISN'T TERRORISM

>>11293922
SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR FAGGOTPOSTING

>>11293933
Not an argument

>>11293942
this.

>>11293507
It's hard to see what point you are making. is the point that people have been complaining about something for a long time, therefore it doesn't exist???

You're right, people have been doom and gloom for quite a long time (since before Christ! the greeks for example bemoaned the loss of a "golden age"). But this does not mean that they were wrong and that things were not in fact getting worse for humanity and the planet. And in many of the historic contexts, their doom and gloom scenarios did play out (the greeks were conquered and rome collapsed, etc).

But now what is happening is exponentially worse and is getting much much worse every year. More and more freedoms and privacies diminishing, more and more wilderness loss, more and more overcrowding and resource exhaustion, more and more species extinction, more and more plastics in the ocean, accumulation of radioactive waste, drug addiction, suicide, and depression at rates they have never been, and on and on and on.

>>11281368
I think our rate of technological advancement/creation of more and more ways to effect our surrounding is VASTLY outpacing our societal means to handle that sort of responsibility.
We need to grow as a species or, in my view, we're doomed.
I don't mean in a "weh muh environment" way, even if we scorched the planet we'd survive.
But we're still the tribalistic apes we were 20k years ago, and if anything our habit of feeding people's self-gratification for money is preventing any growth.
But good luck getting people to change, brains are lazy and will always go for the easiest path. Unless you're a particularly convicted person, but we've had many of such people throughout our history and while they may inspire some while they live the moment they die those that followed them tend to return to how things were before
The only thing that might correct course is a "return of christ" if you will, getting one of those freaks that actually fights for their convictions and encourages others to do the same into a position of power.
But lel, good luck having that happen when the world is already run by a cabal of pedos and crooks who are plenty happy performing any abuses they may to stay on their thrones.

Type 3? Hell nah. That would mean encapsulating every star in the galaxy with a swarm of light collectors. That would take millions of years at a minimum. I seriously doubt any civilization would be able to hold together that long or remain a unified civilization.

>>11292892
Looks like you were clamped really hard at birth

>>11295341
Every year since Jesus Christ(and possibly longer than that), people have said doom will come "tomorrow". Such prophecies have never materialize.

The problem is human cognition, the inability to properly calculate the chances of doomsday. We have to rely on long term data and math to make sense of it. For our current time, we have 1/50 million chance of doomsday each year. You're better off spending all of your money on lottery in hopes of winning the megabucks.

>>11295341
>More and more freedoms and privacies diminishing, more and more wilderness loss, more and more overcrowding and resource exhaustion, more and more species extinction, more and more plastics in the ocean, accumulation of radioactive waste, drug addiction, suicide, and depression at rates they have never been, and on and on and on.
Eh, we survived Cold War, compared to those days our days are very, very safe.