/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11291022
2020 superpower

2020 superpower

>superpower this very second

MIT is obviously better but IIT is probably better has a far more impressive alumni than your shitty state school

>>11291022
>Hello neon, how are you?
>Three hours later
>Poo in it

This is peak indian meme AI tech

>>11291022
Duh. MIT. Also, even if your claim is true, harder is not necessarily better.

>>11291101
Aren't there like a dozen IITs? So there are probably millions of alumni.

>>11291022
What

MIT is like a vacation when you go there as an exchange student from ETH

>>11291022
Indians have a weird complex about how "hard" their schools are. If you ever look at blog posts/youtube videos related to IIT/JEE online you will always find a horde of pajeets in the comments squawking
>bro trust me this stuff so easy we have to do this in 8 seconds real questions 100x harder bro
even if the question was literally taken from an IMO or something.

If you ever take a look at their exams, Indian conception of "difficulty" is literally nothing but memorizing tricks. Every single question is just
>here's a disgusting computation that takes 5 minutes
>but there's an obscure shortcut that will let you do it in 20 seconds
>oh btw you only have 1 minute to do this question

>>11291144
Yes, but IIT bombay is the best one.

>>11291177
DESU it's probably true that the west focuses on innovation whilst the rest of the world focuses on rote memorisation. Indian and Chinese exams are just 100% memorising.

>>11291155
MIT is watered down trash for children. The school doesn't accept smart people anymore.

>>11291247
>Indian and Chinese exams are just 100% memorising.
So are western exams.

>>11291022
Yes, they may find using toilet paper is laughably easy

>>11291283
If that would be the case, math exams in Germany wouldn't have failing rates of 60% upwards.

No, not because we have "The hardest school ever", but because you can't just memorize stuff, else it would be like 5% failing rate.

>>11291022
Its probably the same with Chinese top universities as well. They got millions of people applying and only handful get accepted.

>>11291511
That just shows westerners don't want to memorize stuff. Look at how many failed med students and pre-meds there are in the west.

>>11291517
America teaching has adopted a conceptual understanding over rote memorization learning.

>>11291517
Anon, I am a German, but I also have friends in Spain and England.

The stuff you do in homeworks and do in lectures is the basic stuff you have to understand and then apply it to much harder questions in the exam, hence why there are many people who study every day and yet still fail their exams 3 times and get kicked out despite fulfilling the required workload

I never met a dumb person with a STEM degree.

>>11291177
Yea the poos are really fucking cringe

>>11291511
Most math curricula don't actually teach math, they teach memorization of tricks that aren't part of the actual topic and are mixed in with problems from the topic to make the topic look harder than it is. Thus the fail rate is due to students believing they're being taught and clearly having mastered what the teacher showed them, but actually they were being mislead purposely.

>>11291544
>I never met a dumb person with a STEM degree.
Either you're very dumb yourself or you've never talked to anyone ever. 99.9999999999% of people with STEM degrees are borderline retarded from my point of view and I'm not talking about students.

>>11291544
>I never met a dumb person with a STEM degree.
I've met dumb people with STEM PhDs in America.
>>11291521
This isn't even universally true at the university level -- it's almost universally false at the pre-college level.

>>11291561
I think I am very dumb, I have 40 hour study weeks and yet am in my second try of Calc 1 and my third try of Calc 2, but I never met a dumb person with a STEM degree, I mean, I am legit retarded, that's why I fail hard despite putting in effort, the most "retarded" thing I guess you can see someone with a STEM degree is doing, is having a bad day where the person spouts nonsense, like every other human sometimes and you remember that especially because the person has such a high value degree.

>>11291567
You think that because of your status. To everyone else a STEM degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on, it's just a rite of passage that allows you to ask for the privilege of having a job so you can make the bossman rich because he wants another yacht while you can barely afford rent. Also to everyone else, the average STEM degree holder is retarded and doesn't know the first thing about the field they supposedly studied. It's not an off-day thing when it's 24/7, on and off the job, online or offline, and typically involves, beside complete lack of knowledge and understanding, inability to (re)learn and to think logically.

>>11291022
>IIT
imagine the smell.

>>11291022
(citation needed)

>>11291587
And I wouldn't have my status if I weren't below average in intelligence.

>>11291601
That IS your status.

>>11291604
I thought you mean with status being an undergrad?

Regardless, you say in the post that the average STEM degree holder is retarded, that is complete nonsense and you know it, I have an IQ of 102 and have a hard time understanding the exercises I'm doing and I will probably be kicked out any time soon, it's right up not possible that there are people with STEM degrees with an IQ below 115, except if you see people with an IQ below 125 but above 110 as retarded, then it applies I guess.

>>11291615
Not these anons, just tagging on. My experience in Canada is that STEM is a mixed bag. There's some people that are really good with memorizing and repeating excersizes, but as some others have stated that only gets you so far. Usually it's enough to pass, as is being generally smart but maybe not memorizing as efficiently.

Now in the workplace, I've noticed that the people who were generally smart are far better at their jobs and new jobs in general than those who got passing or good grades, but did it through repetition and memorization. That's not real life, and it doesn't translate as well.

I have no experience with foreign schools so idk if the methods are different there, but ours is (in my experience) memorization for 80 percent of exams, but 80 percent extrapolation for assignments, labs, projects, etc. Our school/my program was about 60/40 weighted exams/projects. Personally I'd prefer to see that reversed, but it's much harder to grade and get everyone on a level playing field that way.

>t. P. Eng in Ontario

>>11291615
>I have an IQ of 102
If that's tested IQ you should drop out and try to find an apprenticeship somewhere instead. Try plumbing or welding. Even assuming you successfully get a degree (possible, remember: almost everyone with a STEM degree is retarded, so you'll fit right in), you're not getting past an interview even at shitty local companies.
>it's right up not possible that there are people with STEM degrees with an IQ below 115, except if you see people with an IQ below 125 but above 110 as retarded,
Do you think I go around asking every retard I see if they have had their IQ tested and what it was? If you can't tell me why you don't sort the dependent and independent variables independently before applying a t-test, you can get the fuck out of my face. The average STEM graduate has no clue.

>>11291651
I'm >>11291647
Speaking from experience this is objectively not true. Idiots get hired all the time. I've been part of the hiring process a few times now and the number of obvious idiots that get a second interview is staggering. I work with a field of idiots after the latest round of hiring (that I was NOT a part of).

Remember, in order not to hire idiots, the managers have to not be idiots. Managers tend to be idiots. Anon will be fine. That piece of paper and a resume filled with vaguely STEM sounding qualifications/experience is all you need. It's not right, but it's reality.

>>11291651
>>11291662
Alright, how to get a degree as an Idiot?

>>11291669
School isn't that hard, you just have to do varying degrees of work to finish it. Smarter people either get highER grades with the same amount of work, or do less work to get the same grades.

That's not to say nobody fails. I think the dropout rate for Mech Eng in my year was 40% by graduation time, but most of them moved into some other degree and passed with flying colors. There's also WAY harder degrees than Mech. I'm not delusional. But outright saying idiots can't pass stem courses is wrong. There's proof in your graduating class, I guarantee it.

>>11291662
>Idiots get hired all the time.
Of course, but almost always due to things that have nothing to do with a normal interview. Nepotism, cocksucking, that kind of thing is how they get in.
>Remember, in order not to hire idiots, the managers have to not be idiots.
Companies usually hire in 5 rounds nowadays. HR, hiring manager, 2 tech people, direct report, usually in that order. Sometimes the CTO or CEO is thrown in instead of one of the tech people. Cocksucking gets you through because even if tech people say 'no', rest of the stack can still say 'yes' and win, especially if CTO or CEO is there. Typically it takes more than a dumb hiring manager to pass though.

>>11291680
I also never said that idiots don't graduate (since I also said that almost all STEM grads are retarded), just that an apprenticeship is probably going to be infinitely easier, more profitable, and more comfortable.

>>11291680
>>11291695
Doubt.jpg

When I look at who passed and compare it with my workload: It has all to do with how smart a person is. I study since day one, I study throughout my semester holidays and yet I am a year behind people who didn't even knew the stuff 2 weeks prior.

It's about being smart, only smart people pass. There is NO ONE in my subject that passed calc 1 and 2 who is retarded, NO ONE, when I compare their logical conclusions and the speed of them to mine, it's like we are a different species.

Why am I still in it? I guess I am a naive idiot and think, despite being 26, it will get better with time and effort. Kek... ;-;

>>11291711
I think we're using the term "idiot" too loosely and too harshly here. Truly dumb people don't make it to trade schools, let alone university. You obviously have to be somewhat smart, as even getting into university requires good grades. "Idiot" when I use the term refers to their general common sense. I've met a staggering amount of people that just don't seem to have the ability to think straight, or thoroughly. I call them idiots, regardless of what their report cards say.

It's possible you just don't have the mind for school. Some people have an easy time thinking in abstract with nothing tangible in front of them. Others need visuals and hands-on experiences. Neither are inherently dumber than the other in my view, but IQ tests don't tend to test how well you can logic your way through a problem when it's on a bench in front of you. They're primarily abstract.

>>11291692
You're being far too cynical. Time and availability are the normal factors when hiring entry level jobs. Thing is, people in entry level jobs end up moving up the ranks. It's much less common to hire a manager from the outside.

We just got a pool of civil engineers for interviews. They're all pretty much garbage, doubt they could engineer a fucking concrete slab properly, but one of them is getting hired. We need a civil stamp in the office, period. That idiot will eventually replace the civil manager (who isn't a P. Eng or we probably wouldnt be hiring). And the cycle continues.

Your mistake is thinking companies have the choice among hundreds of candidates. We don't. We had the position open for months, and got 4 candidates. I'm not at the level that shows salary, maybe that was a block? I also know our HR department is trash and doesn't even forward everything. We also have sctrict security screenings, etc. But we're not an outlier in STEM employers. This is kinda the norm.

>>11291738
>But we're not an outlier in STEM employers. This is kinda the norm.
For an entry level STEM position? There is no pharmaceutical, chemical, or biochemical job I've seen with fewer than hundreds of candidates when the job listing displays how many applicants there have been.

>>11291738
Pretty much this.

This girl tibees or tibuus, can't recall, does this thing of showcasing exams from MIT, etc, and the pajeets in the comments are like:

LADY PLS, EXAM FROM IIT IS MUCH HARDER TAKE A LOOK THANK U.

So annoying.

Mathematician: How to write 4 in between a 5?

China: Is this a Joke?

Japan: Impossible!

America: The question's wrong!!

UK: Rubbish !!

India: F(IV)E This is the reason you find Indians everywhere in the world in finance, business, medicine, engineering & arts... anything to do with optimising your brain!!

British: Can u Swim?
Indian: No
British: Then a Dog is Better den u because It Swims. Indian: Can u Swim?
British: Yes!
Indian: Then What's the Difference between u & Dog… British Shocked,Faints!! Indian Rocks!

European : Y do U indians come in all colors, look at us,we R all white..?

Abdul Kalam: Horses too come in different colors but donkeys R all the same..!!!

Einstein & a Indian sitting next to each other on a long flight...

Einstein says:
"Let's play a game...
I will ask you a question,
if you don't know the answer,
you pay me only $5
and
if I don't know the answer,
I will pay you $500..."

Einstein asks the first question:
What's the distance from the Earth to the Moon...?

Indian doesn't say a word,
Reaches his pocket,
Pulls out a $5...

Now...
It's the indian turn...

He asks Einstein:
What goes up a hill with 3 legs
and
comes down on 4 legs..?

Einstein searches the net and asks all his smart friends...
After an hour he gives Indian $500...

Einstein going nuts and asks:
Well...
so what goes up a hill with three legs and comes down with four..?

Indian reaches his pocket and gives Einstein $5...

Einstein fainted.....

Send to all Indians all over the globe! Magic Missing Indian flag in this? Don't worry send this message to only 2 groups u will shock to see all these flags will become Indian flags Created by: engineering students Of CIT

>>11291789
Human bean: Where do you shit

Japan: In the toilet
America: In the toilet
UK: In the toilet
China: in the bath tub
India: on the street

>>11291680
I agree with this statement, I’m about to do my last semester of chemical engineering, and there’s some real dumb dumbs that are allowed to pass. American education is all about quantity these days

>>11291711
My friend one thing you need to remember is that the brain is like a muscle. If you study your subject diligently you will learn it.

>>11291822
as far as i know there are no brain steroids, at least with steroids you can gain muscle with no effort

>>11291829
It gets stronger because you study a subject for years, just work harder

>>11291738
>people in entry level jobs end up moving up the ranks.
That doesn't normally happen at big companies at all. Someone retires and the entire stack moves up, yes, sometimes. Usually though it's some C-level's child becoming manager when he's never worked at the company before.
Additionally, entry-level becomes senior but not manager, and manager is usually a different track than technical, which requires going through an (admittedly easier) internal interview process as opposed to just being promoted. There is typically no promotions past senior level in technical tracks either, only sales or management gets to go up.
Personally I've never seen an entry level get promoted into a manager in the same org (let alone team) without dicksucking, and even then it was after 6 years of working there despite coming in with a master's at a mid-senior position.

>>11291852
Oh yeah, and when new teams/orgs are formed, managers are EXCLUSIVELY EXTERNAL because they take the opportunity to hire names they don't have yet. I also saw a pattern where they like to hire nobodies with names extremely similar to well-known people, not sure if it's just my reading too much into it but the pattern seemed consistent.

>>11291022
bruh its 2020 where is the fabled superpower we have been hearing about all these years?

>>11291022
If an Indian ever laughs at me, i'll just touch his food with my LEFT hand.

>>11291832
but just like your muscles there's a natty limit, you can't have the body of a roider without steroids and you can't have the mind of a genius at all because there are no brain steroids
you can only reach your maximum potential, which depending on your genes might not be great

>>11291822
I do and yet fail every time? Do you know how embarrassing it is when you spent hours and hours on reworking the homeworks that are supposed to be exam preparation, just get blown out of the water by some people who just copy and paste theirs and start studying a week prior?
And with blown out of the water I mean passing the exam. Sometimes they even ask ME to give them hints because everyone in my subject knows how much I study and how prepared I am.

>>11291908
you're a moran
don't listen to these midwits, you can't make yourself smarter you can only learn more
maybe in 100 years there will be a way to actually increase intelligence, but right now if you're born dumb well tough luck, cuck

>>11291022
It's harder to get into IIT, they have way more applicants so their entrance exam is objectively more difficult, that's just a fact

The mistake most brainlets make is thinking this is in any way correlated with the quality of the students. It's quite possible an autistic focus on exam scores actually selects against the most valuable

>>11291856
>>11291852
What's your sample size? This has been opposite to my experience. Different fields maybe?

Government, 4 private companies I've been with, 3 that my SO has been with, 3 that my friend from school has been with, all in different fields: they prefer to promote internally. Teaching a new dog old tricks is hard, the money companies spend training a low level employee is low: that employee then gains job-specific experience, and requires little to no training to move up at the same workplace. I'm not saying nepotism doesn't exist, but it's not this huge conspiracy "keeping everyone else down" like you've been insinuating. In fact in my (much fewer) experiences with nepotism, higher ups invite their family to do more menial shit like reception and finance and shit. Large companies make it difficult for true nepotism to work, since their hiring process is typically so impersonal.

This thread is all about dumb people talking about other dumb people.

>>11292189
any thread that attracts pajeets end up like this

>>11292155
What a load of bull.
My sample size is facebook, google, microsoft and Twitter research divisions, novartis and merck, 2 startups that evolved into medium companies and sold, plus 2 hospitals I won't name. 5 of these are first-hand, 5 are second-hand (friends and colleagues). I could also add huawei (also research) but that's from someone I don't know enough to ensure the veracity of the claim. This ranges from ML, fundamental math, bioinformatics, biology (wetlab, everything from ms to hts to seq), and cryptography.
I've only seen internal promotions in the following cases:
Jr -> Sr (no change in hierarchy, just pay).
Someone retires (happened 3 times, I personally saw 2, both were 100% political and had nothing to do with the employee's competence, the 3rd was like that as well from what I'm told. In particular, in one case, an actual competent employee was supposed to be promoted, then another employee demanded a meeting with management, and in the middle of the promotion announcement management barged in and interrupted to say that the other employee was getting the promotion).

I have also seen 2 new teams and one new org be created. In that case, all managers were external but other employees were shuffled over to bootstrap it, rest was filled by a mix of internals and externals.
As I mentioned, I have seen 2 startups who were bought. In both cases, once purchased, the leaders of the new faction were externals (neither from the startup, nor from the company that purchased the startup). In one case this spanned 3 roles, as they fired the CEO and a manager, while in the other it was just one role.

>>11292189
This thread is filled with people with a complex that they're smarter than everyone else in their own field.

>>11291780
Supershitter by 2020 btw

>>11291513

maybe they should build a few more universities. it's very lonely and isolating being among only foreigners.

>>11291513

maybe they should build a few more universities. it's very lonely and isolating being the only american among foreign students. unfortunately, nobody seems to think this is a problem worth addressing.

>>11292355
Because xenophobes being uncomfortable isn't a problem. It's a good thing. Those foreign students' qualifications blow yours out of the water anyway.

>>11292355
You shouldn't fear people smarter than you. Would you rather a society filled with regards or a society filled with smart ones?

>pajeet university with a ranking of 301 at best
>produces a thread this big
Hmm you boys aren't as racist as you thought

>>11291544
As someone who works in a STEM field at a university, you are incorrect. Most only have an incredibly narrow band of knowledge, and are completely fucking retarded in most areas.

>>11292272
>CS shit
This is a STEM discussion.

>>11292391
>biology and math are cs shit
OK kid

>>11292364
>smarter
And that's the problem. They aren't. Chinks are incredibly dumb but are really good at cheating, and other non-whites are accepted without actually clearing the usual standard for the sake of muh equality brownie points. Look it up.

>>11292397
https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/05/21/some-quick-plots-pertaining-to-various-asian-ethnic-groups/

>>11292406
Thanks for proving my point.

>>11292385
Still, explain that phenomenon of hard working students failing anyway.

One of my best friends studied Medicine, you know, the subject that gets people on /sci/ to burst out in laughter because how "easy" it is.
He studied 6 hours every day
Every.single.fucking.day.
He even took Ritalin to keep up with the workload.

Guess what, he failed all 3 tries of biochemistry. And his other grades weren't that great either, he barely passed.

Meanwhile another friend of mine studied Pharmacy, barely studied at all, maybe 3 hours PER WEEK, yet he has his B.Sc.

IQ matters, anon, sure, those are just handpicked examples, but I experience this shit too, I study a lot, I fail anyway. So no, they are not "completely fucking retarded in any other field", they are not INTERESTED in any other field, but not doubt that if someone who managed to get a STEM degree would give a fuck about another area, he would quite certainly perform on a decent level there aswell.

>>11292393
>throws two other random, nameless companies into his repetoire of silicon valley garbage, widely renowned to not be similar to other job markets
>thinks he's reinforcing his point
Please refrain from posting here in the future. This board is for the discussion of science and repetitions of meme logic problems.

>>11292415
Japan, korea, india, vietnam, filipino

Explain that

>>11292361
>>11292364

everyone likes to ride their high horse. funny how the ethnic makeup of the student body perfectly mirrors the ethnic makeup of the faculty. you can do that in india, or china, or wherever you come from. i have nowhere to go.

oh well. it doesn't make sense to me, so i guess i'm not cut out to live in the 21st century. what's another death of despair? we seem to do a good job of ignoring those.

>>11292476
cont.

but i'm so glad that boomers and gen-x got to experience the peak of western prosperity while living out their savior complex by importing millions of browns and acting like self-righteous cunts about it

>>11292361
>It's not a problem if you can't communicate with your peers and have virtually nothing besides your job in common with them.
What a fucking psycho.

>>11292476
Wut? If you're white, you still retain the top study body makeup. In fact, its a problem for Asians because even though they make up 20-30% of the students, the faculty/student body make up is less than 5%. That's because forced diversity hurts Asian Americans and allows whites/blacks/latins to retain huge numbers in faculty/student body.

>>11292501

most of the graduate students are asian and indian. if you look at the number of f1 visas issued by nationality, "diversity" has decreased sharply over the last few years. but what does anyone care as long as they're brown, right?

>>11292378
> rankings are based on publications and research, not teaching
Hmm seems like Harvard kids aren't as smart as you americucks thought

>>11292505
Its called a "bamboo ceiling" for Asians in the US. They're excluded from management/faculty/leadership/etc in many of the universities.

>>11292514

did you actually read my reply? and let's be clear, they're chinese and indian. there are tons of chinese. half the faculty are chinese, and half the grad students are chinese. there is no ceiling, because they've got free run of the place.

>They're excluded from management/faculty/leadership/etc in many of the universities.

hardly a comfort to the lowly grad student. plenty of them are in leadership positions. many of them are tenured or head their department

>>11292526
>. half the faculty are chinese, and half the grad students are chinese. there is no ceiling
Only if you're in cali cities or west coast cities where general asian population is 20-40% of the city. In which case, the universities reflect the population. If you're outside of it, the universities restrict the faculty to general public ratio rather than school ratio.

>>11291022
அங்கீகாரம் வாழ்நாள் பற்றிய தற்போதைய தேர்ச்சி பற்றி ஐஐடி அக்கறை போது எம்ஐடி அக்கறையாக இருப்பதால்.

>>11292528
For some strange reason this post reminds me of the time I was in medical distress and the public system referred me to a doctor who had an asian sounding name who then gave me the run around for 3 weeks while I suffered. I can't help but wonder if that was because I didnt have an asian sounding name. I eventually had to move away from the west coast to get treated.

>>11292534
Okay?

>>11292528

i'm not on the west coast. you can't throw a brick without hitting a chinese FOB at the uni.

is it really wise to hire so many expats? it's obvious what they do. they take care of their own. and i don't blame them for doing so. i'm just horrified that americans don't feel compelled to do the same.

>>11292535
just one more person who, due to life experiences, is probably gonna lmao when he hears the words "bamboo ceiling".

>>11292536
>americans don't feel compelled
sooner or later they will. once they get backed into a corner enough its a basic survival mechanism

>>11292541
That's fine. It doesn't matter what happens on anecdotal account, what matters is the scale. When you get a white/black/latin doctor, just know that these are affirmative action doctors. Whites are 1 std deviation lower scoring than Asians. Blacks/Latins are ~3 std deviation lower.

>>11292553
>Whites are 1 std deviation lower scoring than Asians
So I guess you're just an anecdotal account of an absolutely retarded/racist asian then, right?

Anyway, all the toxic waste in your homecountry has resulted in a few genetic defects - like mental retardation, but you still need to go back.

>>11292564
I'm a race realist. I don't have an attachment to white identity or any identity politics in general. What I care about is whats best for my own interest. If it means choosing asian doctors over whites, I'd do that as long as they speak fluent. I'd never lower my own standards to appease "my own" ingroup. Sorry, I'm black pilled. I don't do the whole "I side with my white kind cause im white" thing.

>>11292575
You sound pretty stupid desu

>>11292272
I know nothing about the concrete circumstances you describe, but for some jobs it makes perfect sense to not promote anyone past the senior level, because there simply are no positions higher up the technical ladder.

E.g. a senior developer is often not at all suited to change into the management ladder, because he is lacking the ambition or simply motivation to do the job. Technical experts, especially ones who know the company and its products in and out are almost indispensable and should not be wasted as a mediocre manager.

Salary however should be adjusted accordingly, such that a senior dev with enough years of experience makes a similar amount of money as managers.

>>11291022
>? Apparently Indian students laugh when they get into MIT because it's so easy compared to IIT.
not science or math

>>11291247
I think 95% of education in general is just memorization. Even with subjects like math, when approaching calculus you're never taught what any of the formulas mean and after that point you're kinda forced to commit all of them to memory and recognize when you can use them but you never really understand why you can use them.

>>11292578
He's really not.

>>11292575
I think the same way in alot of ways. I'm always on the lookout for a better country