/sci/ - Science & Math

Makes for a great aphrodisiac

>>11271015
high blood pressure, cardiovascular disease

Receptor desensitisation. So things like >>11271052 become even worse. Don't do it.

>>11271052
But will it eventually turn your brain into cheese or cause dementia? Is it safe in that regard?

Most studies deal with what's mentioned here, little on long term effects on cognitive performance, as far as I can see.

>>11271057
I'm also interested in knowing, but for vyvanse(which is pretty close to adderall anyway)

>>11271054
That's what t breaks should be for though

>>11271061
Well, that Dr. Edward Dutton (Jolly Heretic) had mentioned something in passing, that it's terrible for children's cognitive development, but a search on Google Scholar wasn't helpful. Also, Dutton is an anthropologist, so I'm not sure if he was just talking off the cuff or not.

There's also a chance I misheard, as I cannot find the episode right now, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

>>11271057
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2670101/
>Although most adult patients also use amphetamines effectively and safely, occasional case reports indicate that prescription use can produce marked psychological adverse events, including stimulant-induced psychosis. Assessments of central toxicity and adverse psychological effects during late adulthood and senescence of adults who receive prolonged courses of amphetamine treatment are warranted.

>>11271069
Thank you. That's a good reference. The study is from 2009, so not terribly old. I'm not sure if the situation on awareness of long term effects has changed since then:

"Despite information on the effects of stimulants in laboratory animals, profound species differences in susceptibility to stimulant-induced neurotoxicity underscore the need for systematic studies of prolonged human exposure. Early amphetamine treatment has been linked to slowing in height and weight growth in some children. Because the number of prescriptions for amphetamines has increased several-fold over the past decade, an amphetamine-containing formulation is the most commonly prescribed stimulant in North America, and it is noteworthy that amphetamines are also the most abused prescription medications. Although early treatment does not increase risk for substance abuse, few studies have tracked the compliance and usage profiles of individuals who began amphetamine treatment as adults. Overall, there is concern about risk for slowed growth in young patients who are dosed continuously, and for substance abuse in patients first medicated in late adolescence or adulthood."

I'm going to see if I can find any more on long term cognitive effects through the study's citations (from and to).

>>11271015
amphetamine based solutions like adderral and dexedrine (and meth based like desoxyn) will literally fry your dopaminergic nerce endings within just 1 month of properly titrated up usage

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16014752
methylphenidate (ritalin, concerta) don't do physical harm to the brain but they're still very wrong to take and taking them even short term will make you get less yout of your life long term.

>>11271015
should I start using it? I have a job but its dead end, I want to start studying again but once I get home from work, I cant do anything literally, I havent cooked for months, just living on takeways because I cant even make effort to make a simple meal. Taking up something major like studying is impossible. Can adderal do something like that, like turn me into mindless robot that will just complete given tasks. I need to do something because my life is falling apart

>>11271423
Try nicotine, it's easier on the brain (even prevents alzheimers and parkinson's), while offering enhanced concentration. Just don't smoke it, try snus or nicotine gum.

>>11271423
it will make pick up studying easy you will have motivation and be literally smarter because it will interest you. you will even get a degree.

then what? you'll have ruined dopaminergic pathways and will need to keep taking it. the moment you stop you'll start gaining fat and will be bedridden for a year. afterwards you'll start to recover but never anywhere near the same level you were before because much in your brain has been damaged beyond repair.

so you'll continue taking it and live your life as a wage slave until your tolerance eventually peaks and you turn to harder drugs / kill yourself. or maybe, if you're lucky, you can continue being a good slave to your own prefontal cortex till the end of your miserable life and will have the illusion that you're successful, but not get anything you were actually meant to get out of your existence on this planet.

only turn to amphetamines if you're too weak to handle being human and must switch to being a robot that's content with whatever is being thrown at him.

>>11271416
Don't ask me. I actually created this thread because I am contemplating giving my Adderall away, as far as it is legal.

I don't want to take it if there risks that I hurt my brain long term. I earn my money with my brain and even when I retire I don't want to sit around staring at a wall because I got early onset dementia from taking methamphetamines my entire life.

Paul Erdos famously took amphetamines his entire life, apparently - up until he died of a heart attack, giving a lecture. To be honest, that's kind of how I want to go, doing what I love and being active up until my very last heart beat.

Remember that true mathematicians never die - they just leave.

>>11271439
erdős was 58 when he first took amphetamines, after his mother's death. his famous work was all done before he started taking it.

>>11271433
>only turn to amphetamines if you're too weak to handle being human
I wish I could act like normal human, and then I could even try handling it, but as of right now, once I am back from work I literally turn into vegetable, this will 100% ruin my life, so I might as well risk it and take amphetamines, at least there is a chance it will help.

>>11271447
>this will 100% ruin my life

you're a pussy. that's your issue, not ADHDHAHAD

>>11271446
Big oops. That's very important context. Thank you.

That only inclines me further against taking any of that stuff, especially if it's as a study aid.

I know this sounds kind of new-age and hipster, but some meditation exercises I have done, for concentration, have helped almost as much as the Adderall.

If there are no long term studies, not only am I hesitant to take it, but I am also a little horrified that we prescribe it to children this freely and gratuitously. However, I wanted to hold off from judgement before being better informed, hence this thread. I did not trust the doctors and websites that shill these meds, though. It's kind of like tobacco companies publishing studies that find smoking is perfectly safe.

Anyway, let's see where else this thread goes.

I took Adderall 25mg for the first time yesterday. Not extended release. Only lasted 1 hour because I take anti-dopaminergic drugs for a mood disorder. I need to get off it, fluphenazine, because I haven't been to see a psychiatric doctor in years. I just keep taking it because they told me it works and it seems to. The adderall was a nice high but I don't want to do it more than once every 2 months. Also it's a felony in my country to possess it, I'd rather eat hash and have my legality.

>>11271447
but yes, you'll extremely likely get what you want from amphetamines. you'll be enthusiastic about your work and when you come home you'll be enthusiastic about studying. you'll apply to college with ease.
very likely you'll get all of this and feel like living the dream and will have a very hard time understanding why you don't genuinely feel satisfied with your life when seemingly you have everything you wanted.
it's because that's not what you actually want. that's just a simple answer. just accept being a vegetable and contemplate over whatever your mind wants you do. eventually you'll stop contemplating and take action without stimulants, and achieve 100,000 times more than you'd ever had with them.

>>11271454
Actually, now that I think about it, if the Adderall causes cardio-vascular issues and Erdos had already been an accomplished mathematician beforehand, then not only might have been unnecessary, it might have even been a contributing factor to reducing his life span - and thus his output as a mathematician.

Maybe ironic and sad.

>>11271450
its irrelevant, I wish calling me names somehow would make me driven and motivated, but it simply doesnt, nothing does, only thing left is to try drugs and see if that helps

>>11271416
I've met people taking it, and they seem to be doing fine, better than pre-medication.
To prove I'm not just a hippie: I've also seen a giant pothead up close and he is not doing well.

>>11271460
>only thing left

is facing what you haven't before. is accepting being a vegetable and accepting those horrible feelings your mind gives you rather than desperately trying to run away from them through whatever means. there's a reason you're feeling what you're feeling and negative states of mind aren't just fucking glitches that should be fixed at whatever cost. let your misery fucking consume you and you'll arise as a greater man. that's the other thing left to try, beside drugs.

>>11271457
wanting to do something and doing it are two different things, also things I want, like better job, education, etc, cannot be had without doing something that I dont particularly want (or can) to do like just being organized and following a schedule.

>>11271480
it doesnt work that way, or maybe it does for some people, but it hasnt for me, or if it takes another 10 years then thats no good either.

>>11271439
>methamphetamines
methamphetamines =/= amphetamines

for somebody who has to use their brain for a living but doesnt understand this, you are kind of retarded

I've been using adderall relatively sporadically for the past 10 years. I didn't get an actual prescription until 3 years ago, and since then my usage of it has become significantly more self-destructive and obviously harmful to my well being.

I will say, though, that the effects of the drug are so fucking incredible when you don't have a high tolerance that it's hard not to recommend it to people who are struggling academically. Obviously, it's much better to learn the habits and develop the discipline necessary to succeed WITHOUT use of the drug, but for some of us, it may be the only way to develop the confidence to actually realize our own capabilities. The number of times I blew my own mind with how much I could learn and do thanks to amphetamines gave me the confidence to actively pursue a career in STEM. Unfortunately, my dependence on the drug has become a serious fucking issue that is now, ironically, doing much more harm than good.

Anyway, moral of the story is that I've taken the shit over 1,000 times and I anticipate I've shaven ten years or so off of my original lifespan, but eh- ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

>>11271459
i think mathematics-wise, he likely did perform better because of amphetamines.
a lot of high performing people probably do take stimulants under the table. he had a very 'odd' (~unhealthy) relationship with his mom, and after her death, he should have investigated and try to understand that rather than force himself to keep focusing on mathematics. but he couldn't leave his comfort zone and chose the latter, and i think his life ended up being a lot less fulfilled because of that.

how would one go about acquiring adderal (or equivalent) in the UK? preferably not going through doctors and all that

>>11271525
>a lot of high performing people probably do take stimulants under the table
Donald Trump

>>11271539
nah. trump's enthusiasm in genuine (you'd have it too if you were elected potus), and you can clearly witness how he's literally unaware of the detailed structure of things he's talking about. trump would have very likely been diagnosed with adhd if he ever had to work a 9-5 job or do pretty much anything under serious authority.

you will not become a potus on adderall, it's a position where adhd can easily be beneficial. e.g. dubya, trump

>>11271547
There have been several reports of him abusing Adderall/Adderall-like substances in the past (on The Apprentice)

>>11271604
>shit talking and gossip in hollywood revolving around a real alpha male who changes for nobody
NO WAY LOL

>>11271611
He's not a "real alpha male". He just happens to not be a cuckservative and gave the Republican Party a New Hope. Imagine thinking if you're not Mitch McConnell you're alpha.

>>11271634
lol who the fuck is alpha if trump isnt

>>11271651
A made up term for whoever is winning at any given point.

>>11271634
>billionaire
>has like 7 children from 3 different model-tier women
>is literally the potus

>Alpha is always positive. All alphas are good people

>>11271661
Just drop it, dude. The validity of the concept of a human "alpha-male" is something that never leads anywhere even remotely close to a rational conclusion.

>>11271690
Sadly, life would be a lot simpler if people could just choose an alpha.

>>11271653
No, it's a matter of being strong and protecting the people you care about and helping who you can.

>>11271661
>>11271690
see>>11271720
and stop being stupid

>>11271724
Hey, I totally agree with >>11271720. The point I was trying to make is that people who don't identify their own selves as "alpha" will make the argument that it is somehow immoral to be one, and then whatever discussion there was to be had about adderall would be lost to the ravings of angry manchildren.

Speaking of which, is it alpha to use adderall? Or does it ultimately depend on HOW the drug is being used instead of whether or not the drug is being used at all?

>>11271746
i gotta take a shit hold on

>>11271720
>Muh strenght.

You can win or lose you can be strong or weak at any given time, the real alpha behaviour is winning, if protecting people makes you look the winner that's it, if ruthless behavior makes you look a winner that's it, our society rewards victories and being alpha means winning.

>>11271752
The fuck's your point? In the past it was appropriate for men to fuck anyone's shit up. Now that's inappropriate and what's appropriate is being strong and taking care of others. The fuck are you whining about?

>>11271015
It will clamp your divergent thinking in favor of sharper convergent thinking.

>>11271746
>Speaking of which, is it alpha to use adderall?
I think it's alpha to do whatever you gotta do to get whatever needs to get done, done.

>>11271784

>>11271779
Context that's all, it's not just winning you have to win and look the part.

The whole "they have to be nice and protective" is bullshit, you can be a protector 24/7 and the nicest guy on earth and bitches will jump at chad anyway.

>>11271798
But chad isn't an alpha male, the context for a true alpha male has existed for thousands of years all the way back to chimps and probably even further back than that.

>>11271809
Is the one winning, you can't pretend all ape societies are the same, they value all kinds of alphas and some are never there.

>>11271809
>>11271798
I agree that the context is indeed winning, but the creature that wins through force doesn't last very long. The creature that wins through empathy is the true alpha male.

>>11271812
Yeah "the true alpha".

Any cucked moron that can't live with himself and has to live to protect others on top of that, once they were defeated their alpha status is gone forever.

>>11271811
They value the one with empathy the most. They are hoping the one with empathy wins. But sadly the one with empathy is generally taken out by the other pseudo-alphas is a jealous rage because they're too stupid or weak or both to embrace or encourage patience/empathy.

Been the going story for hundreds of thousands of years. Altruism is a death sentence. God help you if you're born with this horrible disease.

>>11271814
Which is why imo it's better to value savagery more than anything.

>>11271820
> “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
> ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
> ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”
Relevant in more ways than one

>>11271812
I like these gifs. Nice artwork.

>>11272335

How long are patients supposed to take Adderall or Vyvanse? This is not a treatment lasting only a few days, right? There are numerous warnings about Amphetamine abuse and consequences but what about the patients that get this shit prescribed? Now I have read for the first time that even meth is a possibility? Are patients supposed take that for years?