/sci/ - Science & Math

This just in, pop engineers are detached and frivolous

>>11266860
> Don't you boys agree that we should focus on solving world hunger and poverty and focus on developing science that can solve that problem instead of wasting money on weapons and space travel and AI?

World hunger and poverty require political action to be solved, not technology. Dumbass.

Advanced AI can very likely solve that problem and many more. Space travel spinoff techs could also be very useful.

>>11266954
Spin off anime are always bad

Divert the money used to artificially inflate 3rd World birthrates to space travel. Two birds, one stone!

>>11266860
Just for the US. NASA gets about $21B annually. The sum total of all US social programs receives about $927B. If all of NASA's money gets sent to these social programs, then the social program budget would increase by only 2.26%. If only less than 3% was enough to solve hunger and poverty issues in the US, then such issues would've been solved a long time ago.

>>11267183
Just to add to this, NASA is the most well funded space agency in the world. Including all of the world's space agencies and their social program spending would just make the comparison worse for your argument.

OP is correct. More likely than not the future holds complete virtual simulation and not stupid pointless space travel. We already have VR. Who gives a shit about going to mars when we can go to mars in a virtual simulator? The world could easily be a simulator run by AI and perhaps we haven't seen aliens because all advanced societies go to some sort of permanent sleep inside of a simulator.

>>11266860
yes we need to feed dindus, to produce more dindus that will need more food

Solving world hunger would be easy as fuck if we actually tried to solve it. Wed just need to wipe out anyone whos too poor to buy food, boom, world hunger solved.

>>11266860

>space travel

Reminder that space travels biggest hurdle is political not financial since change in leadership affects obligation towards specific mission goals. USA got to moon because of cold war trumping politics and preventing mission goals from being undermined.

Now that you're fighting Muslims on the ground instead of Russians in space obligations towards space travel is affected.

>>11266860

Yes. Providing the following are observed:

A model of economic-environmental sustainability is created which reflects an accurate cost/benefit analysis of human activity. No good or service is produced without the sustainability cost being factored in.

For the most part this would mean placing taxes on consumer goods and service which pollute the environment. The taxes would then be used to clean up and recycle said pollutants. Yes, this means shit like iphones would become 10x+ more expensive. Along with a huge number of consumer goods.

Oh, the general public, along with their feel-good new green deal idiots, dont like that idea? Well fuck, then we can all look forward to living in a cesspool. In the best case scenario. Which is where we are heading and what we deserve because we let stupid people breed and failed to create a political system where action could be taken in time.

"Solving" world hunger is the worst possible thing the human species could do. We already have a planet with too many people, specifically China and India. If you care about the planet, then we actually need to reduce the third world population by at least 75%

>>11266860
>>>/pol/
such a waste of a thread, i hate these
>muh 0.000...01% of tax money i pay should go to starving children in africa

space travel is necessary in order to develop tech to apply on eartn and get more resources into circulation
now kindly fuck off /sci/ cuz clearly this political and economic

>>11267303
This.

We're eventually going to need to expand out into space and set up colonies, especially if humanity is one day threatened on a global scale. We have to make the choice to allocate funds for research on how to sustain an offworld colony indefinitely, combat the long term effects of lower gravity on the human body, and eventually terraforming, rather than spend it all on these people.

Instead of pumping billions into foreign aid for Africa, we should be getting them to build infrastructure and large scale food production on their own.

>>11266860
>we should focus on solving world hunger and poverty
Even if you give them fishing rods, it's not necessarily benevolent: imagine you building them some plants, but they are so retarded that they don't care about ecology at all. When you feed the poor and don't add chemical castration to the ratio, you're only making it worse.
Feeding+sterilizing can be the best of two worlds.
> wasting money on weapons and space travel and AI
wasting money on weapons is retarded (and even worse: military people are insane, even if they're still not recognized as such) but the other two show your niggerness (I would only agree that humans shouldn't be sent into space, robots are way cheaper and way more reliable)

>>11266860
Well its not like "rocket science" is the only place your finger should be pointing at, a lot of the resources from governments and corporations are not fairly distributed from that point of view.

>>11266860
>feeding people so dysfunctional they can't even support themselves

Why would you want to multiply your problems?

>>11267875

This is why the situation is hopeless. The West could do an environmental U-turn overnight, dismantle all its industry, all live like Earth children in tune with nature, and it wouldn't make a shred of difference to the big picture. China, India and others would step in to fill the gap eagerly and spew out more pollutants, devastate more land, wipe out more species, over-fish every last fathom, all without batting an eyelid and meanwhile pumping out more fistfuls of babies.

The Earth may be a big lifeboat but when most of the people down the back are chopping off bits of it to light fires, so they can cook the last of the rations, the options available for survival become very small. Those options diminish to just one if you reject anything involving violence: Hoping you can find some pieces of buoyant wreckage left to keep you floating once the lifeboat breaks up and sinks.

The ignorance of concerned Westerners is simply the mistake of thinking the rest of world thinks like they do. Which is ironic when you think about it. They have little idea that values they take for granted, individualism, personal freedom, democracy, meritocracy, ( and the derived ideologies such as environmentalism ), are the result of hard won and frequently bloody struggles fought by westerners over the course of many centuries of repeated social economic and political conflict. They fail to understand that those values are not global.

Besides, even with all of that, westerners still have their own divisions on the issue. From out right deniers that any environmental or population problem even exist, to the chuckles who say "technology will fix everything", down to the apathetic masses who are happier to keep their heads in the sand provided they can make the mortgage payment this month.

TLDR: We are fucked.

>>11267929
This is the correct answer.

>>11267236
kill yourself

why would i want my tax money spent supporting foreigners who hate me? i'd prefer it if taxes were spent violently depopulating africa and asia rather than encouraging those uncivilized half apes to breed. thats what should take priority over the space program

>>11267183
More money goes to the war machine but whenever this is pointed out nobody questions why this money is not spend improving the life of their own citizens.

>>11267236
OP said AI is a waste too. Step up your reading retention if you wanna hang here.
>>11266860
One of these days, we are going to need options. Hunger is political, like your post. Nobody needs to be hungry. You are dumb to think that resources can simply be reallocated. Whoever doesn't have weapons are the bitches of those that do. This is a fact. People won't play by your rules.

>>11267968
I think a portion of our tax money should be invested in researching why inceldom occurs in some white males, so a cure can be found for people like you before you reach the Blackpilled stage, and thus are rendered hopeless. Also a portion of tax dollars should be invested in institutions where the afflicted like you can be sent and taken proper care of, away from the rest of the general public.

>>11267929
>>11267943
Your mothers should have stopped feeding you.

>>11267236
>LOL no let's just keep digging deeper and deeper into our own warrens like good little insect people!

>>11267168
Only if we can sterilize (You) as well, /pol/ fag.

>>11268011
They did.

>>11267940
We need to get off this rock asap, basically.

>>11268049
No. They do.

>>11268056
I'd be surprised if there aren't already secret Fallout-style vaults in place. If I were super rich, that's certainly what I'd be putting in place as a hedge.

>>11266860
What rules us now is a soft-headed, mushy, egalitarian, feminine sort of altruism, where we are more inclined to feed the starving niggers of Africa than to take account of the fact that every nigger who doesn’t starve to death now will grow up to breed more niggers. We feel sorry for the disease-ridden Blacks and Browns of the world, and instead of keeping them and their diseases strictly confined to their part of the world, we bring them into our part of the world so that we can share their diseases.

What we need is a hard-headed, masculine sort of altruism, which makes us as concerned for the preservation of our own racial quality as for the stamping out of the fur trade, the sort of altruism which leads us to sterilize our own defectives rather than permitting them to breed a White welfare class, just as it leads us to thin out the two-legged population of Africa rather than permitting it to continue encroaching on the four-legged populations.

And you know, whenever I say something like that I can hear the screams of protest in the background. I can hear the softheaded altruists screaming that I am advocating genocide, and oh, isn’t that awful. But as a matter of fact, it is their policies which are leading to a far more terrible genocide, with our race as the victim.

When one has a world overcrowded with races competing for a limited living area and limited resources, there will be genocide. The feminine altruists cannot face that hard fact, and their activities simply guarantee a bloodier and more destructive genocide in the end. The masculine altruists, on the other hand, should be capable of imposing a necessary discipline in order to preserve the health of a beleaguered planet and permit its most valuable life forms to continue developing, instead of being dragged down by the least valuable.

>>11266860
>solve world hunger and poverty
>4 billion Africans by the end of the century
>ecosystem eventually collapses and creates massive wars and refugee waves
>replace 1 problem with an even bigger problem
Is OP retarded?

>>11266860
This has been said since the subsaharan african population was a tiny fraction of what it is today.

Remember that people like Yasser al-Arafat and Nkruma existed. Remember their policies would have stabilized their countries in record time. Remember that when a stupid fucker like Bill Gates tells you "only a little bit more money, only another marshall plan or two, then the african population will stabilize." Even after it stabilizes at a fuckton (official scientific term) more than any sane person would have stabilized it at, even after Gates has made his billions and won even grosser fame than today, another sunovabitch will appear who will fuck things up yet again to make more money.

>>11268070
I thought it was 1 billion Africans by the end of 2150.

Well gosh darn. We're doomed.

>>11268070
>Do you guys like my fantasy story

>>11268080
>We’re doomed because uhhhhhh reasons

>>11268068
>assuming it's genuine altruism at all
Aid to Africa is essentially subsidies for international companies operating there. Neither one of the mainstream parties is about to end that, FYI.

>>11266860
Well you can see with the answers from this thread why it ain't gonna happen,
>This niggas have to do it themselves, we amerifags and eurofags have nothing to do with their poverty
>They just have to just fight the cultural domination of the eurofags and amerifags to build themselves a "civilized" country

This thread does not belong in /sci by the way

>>11268068
>The masculine altruists, on the other hand, should be capable of imposing a necessary discipline in order to preserve the health of a beleaguered planet and permit its most valuable life forms to continue developing

That is just not going to happen in time, as I am sure you are aware. Only when collapse is already underway would the social economic and political conditions be favorable for any chance of success. However, by then the damage will already have been done and any action will be concerned with securing survival. Providing the damage does not result in a major extinction event then there may be some chance to rebuild a rational society.

>>11268172
>Believe in my doomsday cult I am it’s prophet

>>11268174

>Everything is fine, nothing to see here folks, move along.

>>11268081
>it's a fantasy despite being based on long term demographic trends and solid logic
Not an argument

>>11268070

>>>replace 1 problem with an even bigger problem

Depending on the actual conditions of the environmental collapse it could be part of the solution rather than a problem.

If the collapse and it impacts are more gradual, giving time for a massive global population redistribution, then yeah you are right, its a bigger problem. If however the collapse and its impacts are far more sudden and catastrophic on a regional scale, such as disease and famines wiping out significant ( 90% + ) portions of populations, massive economic collapse and balkanization in the west, a few limited wars, and isolated but major social upheavals, then conditions will encourage the rise of pragmatic societies who will address the problems of over population, over-consumption and reckless pollution in a far more rational and pragmatic manner.

We would hope for a survivable short sharp shock rather than a inevitable lingering death. So bring it on and get it over with, its unavoidable at this point.

>>11266860
No. Stop trolling, it's not appreciated.

>>11268232
This fucknugget is quite right. Yeah, instead please lets have more homeworks threads. Or better still, more .9999... threads

>>11268196
>it's a fantasy despite being based on long term demographic trends and solid logic

It’s based in neither of those things. Ecosystem collapse is an irrelevant fairy tale because humans don’t depend on the ecosystem, we depend on agriculture. The natural biosphere could go completely extinct tomorrow and we’d be fine.

>>11268237
You're not really suggesting this thread is better than those, are you?

>>11266860
You brainlet, if we (western civilisation) solved world hunger and poverty, all that would do is drive up the populations of those countries massively to the point where they would get again require more aid from us. This will go on and on until either altruism dies, or the population of the planet is far past the point of sustainability, and humanity is forced to look to outer space for solutions.
PS, we've already reached that point.

>>11268183
Yep, everything is fine. HDI going up almost everywhere, fewer wars than ever before, declining birthrates everywhere killing the overpopulation meme. Depressed teenagers on /sci/ sharing their fantasies of the world ending because they hate themselves and the world

>>11268261

>>As we can see from this conclusive evidence I pulled from out of my asshole there is absolutely no reason to worry, please keep consuming and making more babies.

>>11268265
>As we can see from this conclusive evidence I pulled from out of my asshole

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT..

>please keep consuming and making more babies

Yep, good idea. Meanwhile, depressed misanthropes who shitpost on /sci/ will commit suicide because the idea of three billion Africans scares them too much.

>>11268083

you been to italy or france lately?

>>11268011
We are not Africa's mother, you dimwit.

>>11266860
Poverty wont end until you cease reproduction in the impoverished.

>>11268276
>Do you have any useless personal anecdotes???

>>11268295
you have your head in the sand if you can't see france at least has been altered pretty severely by non westerners

>>11268295

observing the fact italy and france are overrun with violent black apes is not a personal anecdote. leave your liberal retard bubble and see the real world.

>>11268302
Societies are altered all the time. I don’t much care, since France’s HDI has increased in the last ten years.

>>11268272

>The planet is quite capable of holding an infinite number of humans, in the meantime you should keep buying products.

>>11268338
>The planet is quite capable of holding an infinite number of humans

The human population is going to plateau at under twelve billion and probably decline after that. Birthrates are shitting the bed globally.

>>11268341

>>Don't worry about the fact that a human population well under 12B has already produced the environmental damage we see today.

>>11267940
>think of the poor brown muslim feminist with 4 wives and thirty kids you disgusting white/imperialist/colonialist.

>>11268363
>Caring about the environment

What an evil and misanthropic attitude. I care about humans, not the environment.

>>11268257
>Ecosystem collapse is an irrelevant fairy tale because humans don’t depend on the ecosystem
you don't seem to understand what you're talking about

>>11268388
>you don't seem to understand what you're talking about

You don't seem to understand what you're talking about. Name one resource humans need that depends on the ecosystem aside from, like, oxygen.

>>11268394
mycorrhiza

>>11268394
Pollinating insects.

>>11268411
>mycorrhiza

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14543722
Domesticated

>>11268413
Our biggest crops by harvest size self-pollinate, some like bananas don’t pollinate at all and are produced entirely artificially by cutting, and entire bee species are domesticated and used for pollination.

>>11268394
learn2scale fgt pls

>>11268426
What?

>>11268429
low iq, you demonstrate low intelligence by being incapable of scaling.

>>11268009

>>11268434
I am capable of scaling. Are you?

>>11268379

>case dismissed.

Stop posting these anti-space threads everyday you dickhead

>>11268413

Dude, please, we dont need bees or shit. We will create swarms of artificial bees whose AI we can hack and send them on killer missions against the people we dont like, just like that "Black Mirror" episode.

>>11268394
Here's three: food, water, air

>>11268468
>Food

From farms, which are not part of the natural ecosystem.

>Water

Water....isn’t from the ecosystem. It’s from the hydrosphere.

>Air

Oxygen is actually from the ecosystem but we have centuries of oxygen to breath even if it magically stopped being produced and our agriculture produces it as a byproduct anyway.

>>11266860
>>11268465
Yeah! Are you space racist or something?

>>11268480
Tell us, are you just trolling, delusional or just plain pig ignorant? Because refuting any of those inanities just take us down the road similar to arguing with with flat earthers. At best It just wastes our time trying to educate someone with a very poor education. At worse it wastes our time trying to convince someone with cognitive dissonance of a position they will never accept, regardless of the facts. Like arguing with religious nuts. The result is the same either way, its a waste of time. Go and annoy your mother if you want some attention.

>>11268525
>Insults and no argument

Every time.
Explain how we depend on the ecosystem to grow genetically engineered wheat in manufactured fertilizer. Explain how we depend on the ecosystem to get fucking water when it’s sucked out of the groundwater or desalinated from the ocean in a big machine

>>11268540
>when it’s sucked out of the groundwater

Aquifer reserves worldwide are approaching disaster tier, its really going to hit the fan when these start running dry and you get saltwater backfeed turning hundreds of millions of acres into dustbowls where nothing can grow.

>desalination

Hugely expensive, not a viable large scale solution

>>11268555
Off topic. That’s nice but you haven’t explained how we get water from the ecosystem. I guess tribal people out in the savannah might get water from trees or something but that’s all I can think of.

>>11268555

Desalination is expensive because energy is expensive. Again, the solution is LFTR (or fusion in the future).

>>11266860
World hunger isn't a problem if you stop feeding brown people which creates more hungry brown people. I'm also sick of this white man burden bullshit.

>>11268666

>>11266860
How about we stop all the poor uneducated people form making more babies?

they have no food no water, no clothing, no home, no job. yet they just multiply like idiot rabbits just to make more of themselves, more poor, hungry starving children.
its a crime to have children when you cant support them and have no future to begin with.

its not our fault they do this. but ti shoulld have been stopped along time ago

>>11268009
commie faggot

>>11268709
That strategy worked perfectly fine for millenia, and than that white motherfucker comes in there with his bullshit that you cannot eat your own

>>11268540
>desalinated
No need to.
The ecosystem doesn't make rain and rivers.
Plants have only some influence in preventing flooding from some rivers, which is undoubtedly desirable, but the amount for water is still the same.

>>11267971
The US Army improves the life of US citizens by guaranteeing their sovereignty.

>>11268761
> sovereignity to pay half of what they earn to those who destroy shitskin countries so shitskins can get refugee status to live near them.
Makes perfect sense (if you're as crazy as those brutalized faggots)

>>11266860
World hunger is a meme and poverty is relative.

>>11268753
That room needs a molotov

>>11268888
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZy4dLq4YqI

>>11266860
>Don't you boys agree that we should focus on solving world hunger and poverty and focus on developing science that can solve that problem instead of wasting money on weapons and space travel and AI?

Only if you're willing to go full Empire on the world and forcefully correct all of the wrong people on Earth.

>>11268068
sheeeitt

well a.i can bring about spectacular changes ....it may even end hunger in the third world

>>11268995
What's a marshal plan?
Is that like an invasion of Iraq?
Do you idiots want to spend trillions on wars instead of developing real science that could solve poverty? Just fund vertical farming and other shit that can produce food sustainably.

>>11269028
>What's a marshal plan?
>Is that like an invasion of Iraq?

if you don't have food do not make kids. It's Not my problem ever.

>>11266860
no, i want niggers to starve

>>11266860
This:
>>11266889
And... demand for social programs and general public disinterest and downright apathy towards space travel already killed the bright future the US was lighting up in the early '70s.
So the space program was heavily gutted, the social programs fired up, and what do we get? Assholes still saying we need to cut back farther.
Social programs are a bottomless pit. There will never be enough, ever. It's an upside-down pyramid scheme.

>>11269028
>What's a marshal plan?
If you hadn't been so lazy as to not bother looking it up, the rest of your shitpost wouldn't have looked so silly.
You can thank 4Chan that you're identity is still hidden.

>>11269028
>What's a marshal plan?
If you hadn't been so lazy as to not bother looking it up, the rest of your shitpost wouldn't have looked so silly.
You can thank 4Chan that your identity is still hidden.

>>11268995
Think foreign aid this way: it's a form of international money laundering of bribes. The monies given barely trickle down to actual programs. It goes to leaders' coffers to maintain the tenuous stability of relationships with highly volatile countries that we may continue to extract their resources.
The 'aid' factor is the PR needed to give the bribes moral foundations.