/sci/ - Science & Math

space bees

/sfg/ Astrodynamics study group
Let's start this decade by mastering Fundamentals of Astrodynamics by BMW, one chapter every week.
https://discord.gg/WwwFbmH

>>11268780
>Astrodynamics
wwwwwhat if I'm a brainlet though?

>>11268798
Are you good with vectors?

stop posting the science fiction pie in the sky bullshit on this board.

>>11268807
w...what's a vector?

>>11268834
I'm so sorry.

Anon's, now that india has become a superpower nation, what glorious things can we expect from them in the near future in spaceflight?

>>11268763
Twice as wide doesn‘t imply twice as long.

>>11268865
india doesn't have a space program, they just use their pretend program as vehicle for funneling cash out of their government into private hands. the indian space program a modeled on nasa, jwst is 2500% over budget, where'd that extra $12.5 billion go?

>>11268865
india superpower has been postponed to 2030 https://youtu.be/Xl0b2LGf9jM

>>11268763
>doubles to 18m diameter
did I miss something? haven't really been following spacex since Elon did that talk in front of life size starship mock up like 3 months ago.

>>11268898
18 meters is the hypothetical growth path for Mars launch vehicles. No such vehicle has left any internal-to-SpaceX drawing boards.

>>11268900
That'd be pretty cool to see in the future. No way you could launch that from Earth though, maybe if you built and launched on the Moon or something.

>>11268914
You absolutely can, it's just not going to be much taller than nine meter Starship, if it's any taller at all.

>>11268763
Reminder that $21T went missing from Pentagon a day before 9/11 when the files "mysteriously" went missing. Those hard earned taxpayer money are being used by NASA to deceive the general populace about the truth about space and earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyUrw8TJDHM

>>11268865
Moon-landing retry this year
Mars mission this year
Manned flight next year

>>11268973
stfu, kys and gtfo in whatever order you like

>>11269053
Cope

>>11268973
the money is actually used to make you -think- NASA is deceiving everyone so that you think they're deceiving you instead of focusing on the people that actually are

>>11268973
How come there are no good round earth songs?

>>11268898
I think Elon tweeted something about doubling the diameter of Starship in a future design, and his fans ran with the idea. It's also a call-back to SpaceX's original ITS concept.

Michoud also has Snapchat leakers apparently...

>>11269109
It's a shame that SLS won't fly this year, but I'm glad at least large chunks of it are done.

>>11269119
It will fire it’s engines for 8 and a half minutes this year as part of the “Green Run” though. SLS’ schedule only slipped a month in the second-half of 2019, so NASA people reckon if it follows the same pattern this year it will be delivered to KSC in October and be ready to fly in March-April. However, they will probably wait until May to launch because up until then all the Moon windows result in night launches.

>>11268865
first crewed flights, first space station, indian space force

>>11268879
>British Airways
>they can't even operate their own airline

>>11268780
post it here, shithead, I don't use discord

>>11268914
>>11268917
I've actually been thinking about this. Space travel has to be much less complicated when you launch from a different area other than the Earth, or even from space. How likely is it that in the future, we'll just use the Moon as a primary launching station or just built a huge sci-fi-style space station to launch shit from?

>>11269425
>waaaa discord is bad
tough luck

>>11269437
Unlikely because the stuff is on Earth, not the moon. So no reason to go Earth, stop at moon, go to Mars. Cheaper to just go direct from Earth to Mars.

That said for years they talked about an Earth orbit refueling station. This is possible.

>>11269451
>Unlikely because the stuff is on Earth, not the moon. So no reason to go Earth, stop at moon, go to Mars. Cheaper to just go direct from Earth to Mars.
Couldn't they just transport the necessary materials to the Moon and build infrastructure that can help construct spacecraft there?

>That said for years they talked about an Earth orbit refueling station. This is possible.
Yeah, true.

Which company overall is the best to start a career into spaceflight?

>>11269479
SpaceX, get a couple years on your resume and then you can do whatever

>>11269470
there are two real options:
resources from earth, build it on Earth
resources from moon, build it on moon/in space

>>11269514
>resources from moon, build it on moon/in space
Does the moon have those kinds of resources though?

>>11269529
yeah, the moon is a big chunk of the Earth's crust and mantle

>>11269479
If you want a career, NASA/Boeing/etc.

If you want to do something, be part of making history, SpaceX.

Fuck I drank way too much gin. Happy new year to everyone

My therapist: orange rocket isn’t real, he can’t hurt you

Orange rocket:

>>11269832

>>11269838

>>11269841

>>11269530
>yeah, the moon is a big chunk of the Earth's crust and mantle
With zero infrastructure.

>>11269859
infrastructure is different from resources

>>11269866
But it would still need to be all sent to the moon. For example they have talked about making a type of concrete from lunar soil. This would require water and a manufacturing plant, plus lots of power. None of this is easy to get without lots of effort and lots and lots of rockets.

>>11269832
>>11269838
>>11269841
>>11269842
Amazing!

Year of the rat? No, year of the W I D E

I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqwpQarrDwk

>>11269498
>>11269541
what if you're european

>>11269937
We know, yes. Build it.

>>11269937
skyhooks are fake and gay
space shuttles forever

>>11269937
>this shit channel

>>11269987
Rockets are weapons, they are designed to carry an explosive payload across great distances in a short timespan. Riding a space shuttle having my chest be squished by gravity is not what I consider a luxurious travel.

>>11269941
Prepare for Sharia law.

>>11270038
skyhooks have the exact same or worse acceleration profiles

Hey, so I wanted to mention Orbital Rings in this thread. I've watch this video by Isaac Arthur several times and I can confidently say riding up a orbital rings would be my preferable choice of getting into orbit. I do have a question about this part in his video, I think it's between 22:00 and 24:00, is he saying people can drive or ride a train up the cables of an orbital ring into orbit like a space elevator. I can't tell if he's using an analogy or is serious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbI6sk-62E

>>11270077
Is Isaac Arthur serious is a good question in general.

>>11270077
Well, it would be somewhat like an electric train in that the cable itself would provide the vehicle with electricity, it would probably be several "cars" linked together by flexible passages, although I'd guess if we were going to invest all those resources and the money into a space elevator or orbital ring, the "cars" would be much larger than conventional train cars.

>>11270077
don't watch Isaac Arthur, he's a retard
orbital rings are fake and gay

>>11270090
what about floating balloons on venus

>>11270093
nisu desu ne

>>11270077
Orbital ring is so far off its laughable.

>>11270090
nice meme bro

>>11270108
tidal effects will cause it to break up

>>11270112
why are you calling everything fake and gay?

>>11269832
orange rocket good

>>11270175
Orange rocket bad

Why does it have to be orange?

>>11270466
they want to keep the five hundred kilograms of payload that skipping painting it gets you

>>11270466
Because it's unnecessary to paint the tank.

>>11269451
>Unlikely because the stuff is on Earth, not the moon.

Currently. Luna has a much friendlier ascent than Earth does, so starting from a moonbase is a lot more delta/v friendly than going from Earth’s surface to LEO then injecting to whatever interplanetary destination is desired.

>>11269529
>Does the moon have those kinds of resources though?

The moon has kickass resources like titanium and iron, the ore would weigh a lot less and thus be easier to move around, and there’s zero environmental regulations to worry about because it’s a straight up dead rock.

wow, we're so evolved that we waste all of our excess resources launching worthless giant dildos into space.

>>11270515
>Ascetic posting

Go live in a cave lol

>>11269920
>This would require water
On the moon already
>a manufacturing plant
Can be built with mostly local resources
>plus lots of power
You can get a hell of a lot of solar power on the moon

Most of the infrastructure can be built there, with resources that are just laying around. With 15-20 Starship payloads worth of mining, foundry, and machining equipment, you have the "seed crystal" for robust industry on the moon. Of course you'll have to supplement that industry with materials that can't be feasibly produced there, but at that point the lunar economy will justify Starship-sized supply payloads coming in every few months.

>>11270515
no, we immolate the orange dildos in the atmosphere at mach 25

>>11270530
>can be built with mostly local resources
you need to import the plant to build the plant first now
bootstrapping this up is a pain in the ass but it needs to be done
that's what Starship and Blue Moon are for lol

>>11270515
Feel free to play in the mud until the Sun blows up, I'm going to Jupiter

>>11270533
> you need to import the plant to build the plant first now

Just stick a prefabricated plant in a rocket and throw it up there.

boom time soon
https://twitter.com/raul74cz/status/1212197735820083200

>>11269941
Arianespace

>>11269941
Start filling out a visa application.

>>11270621
Think of all the people near the coast who think it’s just a normal launch
they’re in for a surprise

>>11270621
Man I wish they'd put the necessary gear on that booster for the snowballs-chance recovery

>>11270647
they couldn't get permission from the FAA to attempt it

India has a small space program but there aren't many space programs in the world. In power rankings it's probably America > China > Russia > ESA > Japan > India. Does it look like India could surpass Japan in the 2020s? Maybe even ESA or Russia, especially since Russia's space program continues to collapse?

>>11270688
India is already past japan, unless you could the asteroid missions highly

>>11270694
The Japanese have the largest ISS module and are building a module for the Gateway. India is still working on their Skylab proposal.

>>11270696
India/China are building their own independent habitats. So they are in the leagues with US/Russia, not Japan. In terms of launches, Japan does half of India's yearly capacity. China/US/Russia are roughly equivalent. India is doing 1/3 of those 3. And japan is doing 1/6+.

>>11270703
The Indian station is just a single module though. It's more difficult to build a joint station with others. I think once India gets people onto their station then they'll for sure be ahead of Japan.

>Japan does half of India's yearly capacity
I didn't know that about that. Japan needs to step it up.

>>11270489
Isn't the moon devoid of carbon?

>>11270778
we haven't seen any, but we don't have a lot of high quality geological data from the moon
we've only been there in person six times, and only once did we bring a geologist

>>11270785
>we
>we
>we

>>11270787
WE
THE
PEOPLE

>>11270789
You didn't sign that, it says we on the top and there a bunch of signatures on the bottom. you don't work in aerospace, you don't pay taxes, you don't understand most of whats going on an you don't participate or help in any way. you don't own a telescope, you're not an astrophysicist, you've never published research results in a refereed journal.

>>11270802
I do pay taxes. I didn't pay taxes in the sixties, but my grandpa did.

>>11270802
>Tard still doesn’t understand that “we” refers to humans

>>11270787
>we

>>11270533
>Blue Moon
That's still a tin can and rover bus, isn't it.
Blue Origin needs to get on with New Glenn and get to New Armstrong already.
At least their engine numbering implies they already have some design work done.

>>11269933
Gotta follow your meme impulses or we'd all be stuck with Wojaks.

>>11270809
>...using the metric system

>>11270778
As far as we know, Moon is devoid of carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen, all vital elements. There could be some frozen in craters at the poles, but we aint sure how much.

>>11271095
They have a factory and tooling too. I wish they'd be more public with it.
They have shown some snippets of it that confirm they've got custom FSW rigs and the works. Looks like a shinier, brighter, and taller MAF.

>>11271127
The moon has water so it isn't completely devoid of hydeogen

>tfw you weren’t born into family billions so you’re unable to found your own aerospace company

>>11271221
>tfw you will never name SIDE your commercial crew transportation system and perform an orbital rendezvous test mission just to have your sides in orbit.

>>11271221
>born into
And who would that be? Elon didn't get his money from daddy (who was a total asshole), and Jeff started from zero too.

>>11271243
Name another way to make enough money before you’re 50 to start your own space program.
All the possible services and products that could make you super rich are taken unless you’re some 300IQ super-genius and figure out how to make commercial grade fusion reactors.

>>11271260
Well apparently there is another way, because it's generally been people who make their own billions before 50 without inheriting it.

>>11271266
I mean, I sure hope there is but Elon and Jezza got lucky and stumbled on to hugely successful services that filled a huge void. As much as I’d like to I struggle to think of something I could make to equal that.
Not that I’ll stop trying it just doesn’t look likely.

>>11271302
for every Elon or Jeff, there are like hundreds of thousends of people whose ideas don't make them incredible rich.
It's like when some stupid celebrity claims all you have to do to be famous is to believe in one self. thats not how it works. some people are lucky, the vast majority is not

>>11271260
Money printing machine.

>>11268865
DESIGNATED SHITTING STREETS!!!!

>>11271302
I'd even go so far as to say that being born into that much money will just make you a useless Prince Andrew type. It's BECAUSE they made their own money that they have the smarts to know what to do with it.

>>11270633
you can't work on American rocket technology if you are not American citizen, I don't think a visa is enough

>>11271346
are other countries also that paranoid? i have never heard that from any pther rocket building company, but i might be misinformed there. i mean it's not like the US is the only country in the world capable of building rockets

>>11271373
ESA also only hires from nationals of its member states. Luckily for me, United Kingdom is staying in ESA despite Brexit.

>>11271346
If you're worthwhile. That is, if an aerospace company, NASA, or the government wants you - they will fast track your citizenship.

>>11271591
>Launch Failure
>11
space is hard

>>11270489
Permanent lunar spacecraft factory and launch bases WHEN?

>>11271221
I'm thinking about starting my own entertainment ventures, which I'll then use to fund my own aerospace company. Knock out two birds with one stone.

>>11271591
somewaht ironic that the soviet union never managed a succesful mission to the red planet

>>11271704
They were busy with Venus.

>>11271095
Blue Moon is a huge lander, actually, by oldspace standards

>>11271729
>by oldspace standards
That's not a high standard to beat. Anything beyond LEO that's more substantial than a dinky probe is huge by oldspace standards.

>>11271759
how many people can the nominal Blue Moon lander design support?
I think the stretched Blue Moon is way bigger than Apollo

>>11271765
>I think the stretched Blue Moon is way bigger than Apollo
Sure, but how far away is that? Blue Moon will already take a while to materialize and the stretched version will be even further off.

>>11271803
two thousand twenty four by the current timeline, but I expect that to get pushed back a bit

IMAGINE RIDING AN EXPLOSIVE AS PART OF YOUR DAILY COMMUTE


THIS POST WAS MADE BY N̶A̶Z̶B̶O̶L̶ SPACE ELEVATOR/ORBITAL RING GANG!


WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?:
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/surfaceorbit.php#id--Space_Elevator

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/surfaceorbit.php#id--Space_Elevator

https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4851dd2124500

https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/464f869fc12cb

happy 100th bday

>>11271817
>imagine riding on top of explosions to space
thats the way God has always intended man to move from one place to another

>>11269119
>>11269134
Your contry clearly needs more gulags for the families

>>11271952
I volunteer the Boeing management, NASA management, and Dick Shelby as the first proud members of the Huntsville Gulag.

what the fuck is this for?

021409Z JAN 20
HYDROLANT 19/20(51).
NORTH ATLANTIC.
DNC 01.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS, SPACE DEBRIS
021430Z TO 021730Z JAN IN AREA WITHIN 25 MILES OF
24-58.8N 025-01.2W.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 021830Z JAN 20.

>>11271970
aw boring

>>11269498
>>11269541
Just submitted applications to Mr. Musks Wild Space Ride. Wish me luck.

>>11272011
it's worth it for the froyo

>>11272011
>>11272023
don't forget to keep us updated about the daily froyo

>>11270808
Only white people are human

>>11272153
not him, but always nice to be remebered that i am on 4chan

>>11272153
Humans (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) were originally black. Whites are an anomaly.

>>11272407
the first humans were the children of Apes and Aliens. don't you watch the history channel?

>>11272315
go back

>>11271260
Property. That's certainly what I'd go into if I could go back 25 years.

>>11272407
They were dark skin - swarthy.
But "black" refers to being of African descent.

Despite still being dark that man clearly has european features.

>>11272407
Protohominids are black. Humans evolved from a non-representative group of them (founder effect) that left Africa and settled in colder climates, where there was much stronger evolutionary pressure toward high intelligence. The lighter skin also provided less cover for ugly features, creating the evolutionary pressure to become more beautiful.

>>11272407
Cheddarman's color was literally just made up by the artists because they didn't want him to be white

>>11272740
>/pol/ pseudoscience

Funny.

>>11272755
At the very minimum, the argument shows that divisions and classifications are happily made in nature that are unacceptable between humans. Consistency would require reducing the number of listed species, or dividing Homo Sapiens into a group of sub-species. Both options are politically unacceptable for different reasons, but laughing at them and calling them pseudoscientific racists doesn't fix that.

What size liquid propellant engine would be too big for amateurs?

>>11272810
any
liquid props are real fuckers

Something seems.... off about this 1966 Japanese lenticular

>>11272835
astronaut on an umbilical spacewalk around the moon?
we only did umbilicals during Gemini, and basically no orbital spacewalks during Apollo (aside from Skylab repair)

>>11272835
I see nothing wrong with it.

>>11272835
that planet appears to be Neptune or something

>>11272810
how do they drop the batteries without them hitting that big ass vacuum nozzle?

>>11272908
I think they shoot them out sideways.

>>11272844
There were a couple spacewalks on the latter Apollo missions to collect some equipment

>>11272929
I guess they would have been tethered for those, I forgot they went on an actual spacewalk. I was thinking that they just stuck their heads out the hatch.

>>11272825
I think it can be done. They'll be more involved than even the largest solid propellant motor that's sold commercially, but it's possible if the design is done right.

>>11272825
its just hydrogen peroxide, people have been handling the stuff since the 1700s

some serious equipment in boca is showing up

>>11273184
Its a vertical steel rolling setup by IMCAR. They're one of the bigger players in producing large stainless steel tank production equipment for petrochemical industry, and a natural fit for Starship fabrication.

>>11271650
Gonna post your YouTube videos here when you start?

>>11272835
>spacewalk during an engine burn

>>11273214
Does that mean they're assembling vertical after all?

>>11271110
only once they got on the moon

>>11273323
Probably, but this equipment is just for rolling steel sheets, and it wouldn't make any sense to do that horizontally.

I can't believe I haven't seen this posted here ever.

There are in fact only two space superpower: France and the USA (with the first being far far behind).

Is it true?

>>11274143
The US number is significantly smaller if you don’t count Rocket Lab as an American launch provider.

>>11273383
>frogposting
2010 called

>>11274155
where's the bit about India pooing on Luna?

>>11274163
>where's the bit about India pooing on Luna?

Only China gets a mention for successfully soft-landing, India and Israel with their unintentional impactors can fuck off.

>>11274155
Kuaizhou should probably be its own category now

>>11274163
I guess this is the decade of fefe now?

>>11273109
Don't you need a license to get any of that in useful concentrations?

>China to have 40+ launches
>SpaceX to have 30+ launches
Who will come in 3rd place? Russia? What about 4th/5th?

>>11271160
Bezos prefers to show results unlike a certain braggadocious female hormone taking product of the apartheid.

>>11274357
>20 years and no results
>Bezos prefers to show results
What did he mean by this?

>spacex
>first private company to dock to iss
>first to reusable rocket in orbit
>first to land an orbital rocket on ship/land
>first to mega constellation of satellites

>>11274394
Elon is literally ourguy

>>11274407
Indeed.

Aren't we supposed to get manned suborbital launches from BO soon?

>>11274424
>Aren't we supposed to get manned suborbital launches from BO soon?
Them and Virgin Galactic have been one year away from offering services for years now

>>11274424
A quick look up says that it might happen sometime this year.

>>11274155
Might open a launch facility in northern Michigan soon...

>>11274357
A BO employee was actually talking to me yesterday about Jeff’s interesting attitude to PR:
He told me Jeff doesn’t like to make announcements unless they’re about significant milestones. Jeff doesn’t want Blue constantly talking about what their going to do in the future like Elon does, he only wants to make announcements when they’ve got something to show.

>>11274394
Blue have only really been in the orbital launch game since 2016, they spent 10 years as a glorified think-tank and the next 5 building suborbital hoppers, they didn’t have a functioning New Glenn factory until last year.

4 engine master race!

>>11274470
Lewd

>Long March 7A
>re-usable Chinese launcher
If Long March 5 is their Falcon Heavy, then Long March 7A is their Falcon 9.

>>11274470

>>11274470
>gas generators

>>11274470

>>11274470

>>11274511
What are the transparent things

>>11274470

>>11274516
condoms

>>11274470

>>11274516
rocket bell cozies

>>11274616
I mean JWST is already complete, it’s currently in a rigorous testing phase.

new Starship render

>>11274703
it's like a kid wanted to tell a story about a space shuttle but the only toy he had to play with was a dildo

>>11274709
>"mom mom look! My spaceship can go all the way to Mars!"
>That's nice sweety, go land it back in mommy's underwear drawer now

>>11274733
>My spaceship can go all the way to Mars!
I think he meant Venus.

>>11274753
Damn you Carlos

>>11274753
Carlos you cheeky cunt.

>>11274753
>We're heading for Venus! (Venus)

>>11274703
is the entire underside covered in tiles?

>UN logo
what did they mean by this?

>>11274915
>is the entire underside covered in tiles?
Yeah. The latest iteration drops the methane sweat cooling system for metallic tiles.

>what did they mean by this?
Probably done to appease the spaceflight fans who believe that mankind should be united before exploring space.

>>11268768
just space bee yourself

Wait is that an official render?

>>11269448
go be a faggot zoomer somewhere else

>>11274921
isn't it ceramic tiles?

>>11274929
no, look at the filename, it's by Gravitation Innovation

>>11274934
You're right, they are. Got them mixed up with the X-33's tiles which were metallic.

Starship is using ceramic tiles now? Fuck. Shuttle 2.0 here we go again.

>>11274940
it's the OG shuttle concepts from the 50s and 60s, but with less dolphin sex this time

>>11274940
>small hole in heatshield surface turns in to plasma torch that burns a hole through the vehicle open reentry.jpg
What can go wrong?

>>11268763
To be strictly accurate, the smaller one is also still hypothetical at this point.

>>11268768

>>11274951
If the design is done right, then heat shield failures would play out like STS-27. With the key difference being that every part of the heat shield has high temperature steel under it instead of just one spot.

>>11268834
What's he vector, Victor?

>>11270112
Plus spinning rings are dynamically unstable.

>>11274753
Caaaaarloooos

>>11270466
Why not orange?

>>11274970
I thought it was cylinders?

>>11270633
https://vitruvianastronaut.tumblr.com/post/125450315886/astronauts-in-art-norman-rockwell-behind-apollo

>>11274974
yeah, the ring is inherently stable, but a ring orbiting a point mass is not

>>11271807
Oldfags will remember all the plans for post Apollo moon colonies and such.

Oldspace or Newspace, it doesn't count until you do it. If we are crediting folks for what they want to do, Verner is still probably in the lead.

>>11274983
SpaceX are giving old Wernher a run for his money
Starship is a hell of a concept

>>11274983
>it doesn't count until you do it
This, there needs to be a shift in spaceflight away from liking concepts to liking actual work being done.

>>11274940
Ah well, it was a pleasant dream while it lasted.

>>11274974
They do not stay centered.

>>11274985
I agree. And I hope it comes to fruition. In which case I'll cheer, and it will count.

"Rockets I plan to build" don;t count until they fly. Though at least Musky's plans seem serious.

>>11274921
there are lots of spacex fans who sperg out about US flags on the rockets or SpaceX flying military payloads

>>11274921
>Probably done to appease the spaceflight fans who believe that mankind should be united before exploring space.

It’d be nice but I don’t think humans will be capable of that in this century.

>>11274999
Got any examples of that? The military payloads I can sort of understand, but the US flag bit sounds silly.

>>11274962
You mean if the design is done wrong.
These aren't the shuttle tiles made of fragile custom-cut foam, and it won't have an SRB nose cap to hit them either.

>>11274980
>orbiting
Right, a free-orbiting orbiting ring is unstable. Not to be confused with pic related, a ring space station physically connected to its center hub.
Though I suppose if it was done 3001-style, with towers all the way from ground to a ring at GEO, that would probably be stable.

>>11275002
Pretty sure all SpaceX vehicles field US flag. Starship won't be any different. Its just delusion to think SpaceX will ever field a UN flag or some random crap. SpaceX is an American company and Elon Musk is a diehard American at heart. Its always the immigrants that are the most patriotic Americans. They know why US is great because they can see from the outside perspective. While the liberals have a bit of a hate boner for US.

>>11274991
ceramic tiles have improved a LOT since STS (it's not shuttle, it has nothing to do with the true fully reusable space shuttle concepts it was sold as) and they don't need to do as much work since the backing material is high temperature stainless steel instead of aluminum or carbon fiber

>>11275030
>Pretty sure all SpaceX vehicles field US flag.
I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the outrage to SpaceX having the US flag on their rockets.

>>11275027
you put your orbital ring in LEO at like 100 km or something, then hang your lift points and stabilizers (surface) stationary thing that's maglev floated off of it or some dumb shit, and then you get to orbit somehow what the fuck what am I forgetting, how does this work

>>11275038
what? why would people be butthurt about that

>>11275038
>outrage to SpaceX having the US flag on their rockets
Its probably from the "Elon skeptic" people. Those people have dedicated almost a decade or so in trying to trash everything Elon. They just keep digging deeper into some conspiracy like cult nonsense.

>>11274999
>>11275002
>>11275038
>>11275057
When some of your biggest fans look like pic-related and your headquarters is in California, it’s not surprising that their are some outspoken anti-American, anti-patriotism, anti-nationalism SpaceX fans.

>>11275070
Welp it won’t let me post pictures...

>>11275071
it's because you're a communist

>>11275070
>Ug Tribe is good. Grug tribe bad. My tribe have tribe symbol on rocket!

Nationalism is caveman shit that doesn’t belong in space

>>11275081
fuck you, caveman shit is going to take us to the stars

>>11275085

>>11275085
>fuck you, caveman shit is going to take us to the stars

Foolishness. You know in your heart that such tribalism is primitive and unhelpful in the modern age. Have a new, bigger, and stronger tribe which consists of all humans.

>>11275090
above a certain size, making your tribe bigger is detrimental
just compare Boeing to SpaceX

>>11268834
Sorry, I got off on a tangent.

>>11275094
>above a certain size, making your tribe bigger is detrimental

No it isn’t. More people in the tribe means more specialists. SpaceX’s advantage is that it’s Youngblood. Boeing is literal boomers.

>>11275081
>>11275085
Ironically, once we are in space, we will live like cavemen and never really get time to see outside the habs.

>>11275106
Why not? There’s a lot of interesting rocks out there I want to fuck around with.

>>11275115
lewd

>>11275106
Those two fucked. You can tell by the smiling pixels.

>>11275141
the way he confidently grabs her waist is pretty telling

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/03/health/astronaut-blood-clot-scn-wellness/index.html

Really good article about a couple of blood clots on the space station. Only thing that is helpful to know is that apixaban (eliquis) is a pill, not an injectable. Even hints that this may be an issue that will have to be monitored for everyone in space.

>>11275081
A one world government without borders would simply mean a global Chinese and to a slightly lesser extent Desi elite. We would get completely crushed under 3 bil ruthless, cheating, ultratribal, ultranepotist people. Completely baffling to even suggest it at this point in time. Even if we are ready for it doesn't mean everyone else is.

2nd cold war dynamics will exclude them as much as possible from offworld colonization and that's for the good of everyone. Recently there was some Chinese girl optimistically prodding Paul Wooster (SpaceX Principal Mars Development Engineer) at the Mars Society Q&A about the potential of Chinese Mars colonists. Nice try missus, but no.

>>11275185
>2nd cold war dynamics will exclude them as much as possible from offworld colonization and that's for the good of everyone

They will go using their own rockets and there is no way to stop them.

>>11275199
they can't do it cheaply enough

>>11275204
>China can’t make something inexpensive

What is Bizarro Earth like?

>>11275209
they're way behind on reusable rockets, they need to steal a lot of technology before they can pull it off
you can't colonize anything with a Saturn V

>>11275204
Nah, cheap they can do fine. What they can't do is inexpensive, which is where SpaceX is going.
The difference is that cheap is cutting corners, but space is hard and /csg/ rockets would be shit.

>>11275252
yes, that's what I was trying to say
China won't be able to pull off a Starship soon enough to compete

>>11275262
Can China in theory develop Starship equivalent in reasonable time?

>>11274915
>what did they mean by this?
It's not a render by SpaceX. It means the artist is a globalist or foreign national who thinks rosily that space is not a competitive frontier.

>>11275199
For security reasons SpaceX's and BO's Martian and Lunar ATC don't authorize non-Western spacecraft to land on their special economic zones and resource extraction zones, which have already been divvied up and auctioned 20 years earlier.

>>11275277
15-20 years after SpaceX if China doesn't go tits up in the near future.

>>11275288
>their special economic zones and resource extraction zones,
Their claims to the lands are meaningless if they can't enforce their claims.

>>11275277
China couldn't even get a manned spaceflight program going without heavy technology transfer from the Russians

>>11274394
J-Just you w-wait, Mr Musk! Blue Slowrigin will win the race yet!

>>11275294
Their fully legal claims are enforced by USSF and why wouldn't they be able to?

>>11275300
They could have if they had wanted to but they did it in a more efficient manner.

>>11274921
> Yeah. The latest iteration drops the methane sweat cooling system for metallic tiles.
I thought they only needed tiles in a few places instead of absolutely everywhere.
Fuck, I really hope they have decent glue for these things this time around.

>>11275341
They will be bolted, not glued

>>11275288
>15-20 years after SpaceX if China doesn't go tits up in the near future

The US should make every effort to Balkanize China and ensure a unified China literally never exists again. Back to Ming geography.

>>11275014
Yeah, but it‘s also supposed to launch several times in one day.

>>11275341
mechanical attachment dude
tiles have REALLY improved since STS was designed

>>11275318
>They could have if they had wanted to but they did it in a more efficient manner
Sure but they'd only be launching their first unmanned tests this year

>>11275364
Which makes the Shuttle even more tragic.

So much jealousy and racism towards the Chinese in this thread.

>>11275057
People got mad during the early landing successes when the crowd would chant USA USA

>>11275407
wow what a bunch of communists

>>11275407
Is there a screencap of the livestream chat about that when it happened? Because that's hilarious.

>>11275405
>So much jealousy and racism towards the Chinese in this thread.

Yeah I’m so jealous of the Chinese and their evil totalitarian government

>>11275357
Or just restore democratic Taiwan as the legitimate government. China is only a problem due to authoritarian regime. Once they clean up the act, if they do, then the problem becomes a non issue. Same with Russia.

>>11275467
Strategic Defense Initiative 2.0 when?

>>11275467
>Or just restore democratic Taiwan as the legitimate government

Conceivably possible but the US should have invaded China in the 50’s and skipped all of this shit before it started.

>>11275467
Indians have taken over many tech companies in US without any authoritarian governments to back them up. You have to address the problem of the tribal culture too.

>>11274454
That's a cope PR answer if ever. Bezs can't show not because he's some long term genius thinker, but rather he has nothing to show. SpaceX can show off their acievements because no one else has reusable, commercial, cheap, reliable fleet of rockets. They can talk about future plans because they want to inspire people with hope and dreams. Their plans aren't just plans but an actual work in progress vehicle that we can see on a daily basis in all its ups and downs of development.

Even if Blue wanted to show off, they have nothing to show off.

>>11275467
>China is only a problem due to authoritarian regime.
That and the mountains of the debt the US government now owes them due to 25 years of corrupt government

>>11275364
What's the qrd on tile advancements?

>>11275567
they're harder stronger tougher and generally better

>>11275277
China has a fuck huge industrial base, direct control of public expenditure, large aerospace industry. People have really forgotten what crash projects can achieve when you throw the state at a problem, they could have hundreds of tents up welding starship prototypes inside a month and a full sized factory after a year or so that does nothing but shit out stacks of raptors which you can be sure they have the full technical schematics for. They could have a starship sized vehicle inside a few years if they really tried and they will if the CCP sees them losing out on huge chunks of future industry.

>>11275573
>They could have a starship sized vehicle inside a few years if they really tried and they will if the CCP sees them losing out on huge chunks of future industry.

Yeah but what if you drop a thousand atomic bombs on their population centers, and then spray herbicides on all of the agricultural land?

>raptors which you can be sure they have the full technical schematics for
What makes you think that?

>>11275573
>They could have a starship sized vehicle inside a few years if they really tried and they will if the CCP sees them losing out on huge chunks of future industry.
Remember when the Soviets did the same thing?

>>11275586
Then they'll shoot nukes back.

>>11275594
>Then they'll shoot nukes back.

Pfft. They have way less, and they can all just be shot down. Yellow menace has to be stamped out like smallpox was.

>>11275605
>and they can all just be shot down
No.

>Yellow menace has to be stamped out like smallpox was.
I want China to get smacked down too, but you're not realizing the challenges of that.

>>11275506
> Bezs can't show not because he's some long term genius thinker, but rather he has nothing to show.

Jeff has plenty to show off: he’s got a city-sized factory complex that’s constantly growing, a massive launch complex quickly rising and a bunch of New Glenn segments in production. The problem is that it’s all currently incomplete, therefore people won’t be privy to it through official channels until everything’s finished because that’s how Jeff rolls. Take the video shot inside New Glenn’s factory for example, it’s purposefully angled low and to the ceiling, so the viewer can only see the machinery and not the tank segments we know are sitting on the factory floor. Blue actually invites people for private tours of the NG factory but everything past the lobby is covered by an NDA, their apparently considering public tours in the future as well.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2019/11/26/blue-origins-new-glenn-launch-pad-taking-shape-at-cape-canaveral/

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1204821910900613120

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_GqWBAEIFT4

>>11275593
Starship is objectively so much easier to develop than the shuttle.

>>11275615
>No.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-Based_Midcourse_Defense

>>11275620
Yep there's 100% a bunch of segments they didn't want to show us in that video.

>>11275633
There literally is, you obviously haven’t checked NSF L2 lately because it was confirmed there...

>>11275294
>>11275288
economic zones belong to the people who occupy them. And good luck bombing and invading an unlicensed civilian colony. See how many times you can get away with that.

>>11275637
Pls post paypiggy

>>11275573
the metallurgy for Raptor is beyond the chinese
advanced metallurgy is basically black magic, the US industrial base couldn't copy the RD-170 series engines with explicit help from the Russians, the Chinese won't be able to copy Raptor

>>11275645

>>11275625
eh, they're about the same
vertical landing being already solved for SpaceX makes Starship a bit easier

>>11275620
So they got a big factory that's being built. They're showing it to people on NDA. What does that mean? They are not confident. You can have a big factory but if it produces nothing and has produced nothing, there's nothing to show. Saying Bezos is hiding because he has something to hide is a disingenuous PR talk.

I am interested in the "stainless steel" construction of starship even if it wasn't ideal, because fuel is the cheapest part of a rocket. You can have a high performance rocket of expensive and fragile materials, or you can have a minimally acceptable performance rocket that is less expensive to construct and operate. Merge it with reusuability and we can have some space toyota hiluxes that simply work and work for decades as long as you top off the fluids and replace gaskets when they go bad.

>>11275657
Doesn't China have metallurgy problems? Or is that just with non-Chinese companies trying to buy metal from China and the Chinese government can get the real good stuff from their vendors?

>>11275670
>You can have a big factory but if it produces nothing and has produced nothing, there's nothing to show.

Are you blind or just mentally deficient?

>>11275660

>>11275676
yeah, China has metallurgy problems
it's why their jets all suck

>>11275660
>The issue is making the barrel sections the same outside diamaterer, and that turns out to be not as easy as it sounds.
>This is a drawn out learning process

>Meanwhile at SpaceX
>Yeah jus weld dat shieet nigga

>>11275676
It has metallurgy problems because there is no real oversight, inspectors and shit just get brought off. The government knows where to get mostly good stuff for their big projects but otherwise its just a shitshoot.

>>11275680
Blue does not currently have a product. They have a work in progress product that may materialize in the next 2 years.

SpaceX has multiple products today. They also have a work in progress product that may materialize in the coming months.

SpaceX has something to show because they have something.
BlueOrigin does not have something to show because they have no product right now.
You can't claim Blue doesn't want to show when they have nothing to show.
If SpaceX made all their launchs private, dragon private, falcon9 private, falcon heavy private, their landings private, then we can claim "Elon doesn't want to show off until they have something "concrete""

>>11275686
Remember the Starship nose-cone incident(s)?

>>11275689
Can you stop sperging out?

>>11275691
>Can you stop sperging out?
Sorry, just pointing out the obvious problem with "Jeff is a long term guy, he's just hiding his big guns right now" excuse for lack of achievement in the last 20 years.

>>11268763
This is a total newfag question but can someone please give me an explanation as to why we are still using the outdated rocket model for spacecrafts after the design has been in service for over 60 years? Why haven't we moved on to spaceplanes yet that can exit and function the atmosphere?

Pic unrelated

>>11275701
Because we're limited by gravity and the energy that can be extracted from chemical fuels. A vehicle cannot make it into space if too much of the vehicle's weight is made of structure instead of fuel.

>>11275701
Lack of economy of scale. We fly maybe few dozens per year. R/D money is instead spent on how to maximize government money using the most conservative designs available as to save cost.

>>11275696
Blue Origin didn’t decide to build an orbital launcher until 2015/16. They were just a glorified think-tank messing around with rocket-propulsion for a large portion of those 20 years and only had 250 employees in 2013 because of it. They haven’t been slowly trying to go orbital or even reach space for 20 years.

>>11275701
While you are bound by the restriction of chemicals the rocket is a superior design.

>>11275701
>This is a total newfag question but can someone please give me an explanation as to why we are still using the outdated rocket model for spacecrafts after the design has been in service for over 60 years?

Rockets aren’t outdated.

>Why haven't we moved on to spaceplanes yet that can exit and function the atmosphere?

Because a spaceplane SSTO is not currently possible. They might be possible in the future
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABRE_(rocket_engine)
But right now, spaceplanes need to literally ride rockets to get to space, and the one we actually used wasn’t that great.

>>11275713
>It doesn't count because we didn't try
Y I K E S

>>11275724
Holy shit nigga get your head checked, srsly this level of retardation is unprecedented...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPYYw8Qcy-o
>we made a study during Apollo on how to get to mars
>we would build two interplanetary spaceships in LEO from modularized parts from the shuttle
>these ships would have a nuclear rocket engine that NASA has already developed with EEC using a 5000 degree reactor heating hydrogen through an expansion nozzle
>7 month coasting period to martian orbit
>chemical powered LEM onboard would land on mars
>ships would return and remain in earth orbit for further use and use shuttles to deliver crew and new LEMs for further expeditions
>costs would be the same as Apollo and would be for upto 12 people instead of 3, including doctors and cook
AHHHHHHHHH... they fucking had mars system setup in the 70s and threw it in the garbage so people could gorge on the welfare state.. FOR FUCKS SAKE

>>11275737
>AHHHHHHHHH... they fucking had mars system setup in the 70s and threw it in the garbage so people could gorge on the welfare state.. FOR FUCKS SAKE

You expose your modern political bias far too easily. NASA lost funding because of Vietnam and the fact that a Moon mission n had been completed six times already, and then Nixon starting the Shuttle program which shifted resources away from super-heavy launch vehicles like the Saturn V towards developing the Shuttle and then the ISS

>>11275748
This. The US government was only into spaceflight to up stage the Soviets. Once that was done, they couldn't care less.

>>11275733
Gotta call spades a spade. They have shown nothing yet.

In comparison, SpaceX in 2008 launched to orbit with payload with ~500 employees. BlueOrigin reached orbit in 2015 with 400 employee. Falcon9 was in orbit with payload in 2010 with 1100 people. Meanwhile BlueOrigin with >1000 in 2017 still didn't have any viable vehicle.

Face it, Blue sucks in comparison to SpaceX, even if you ignore the first 11 year of BlueOrigin's existence.

>>11275752
>BlueOrigin reached orbit in 2015 with 400 employee

But they haven't reached orbit.

>>11275750
>Once that was done, they couldn't care less.

I wouldn’t go that far, but there has definitely been much less interest and funding from the US government itself towards space projects that don’t have immediate military relevance like the X-37 spaceplane does. SpaceX could probably do Mars but I’m curious why they’re bothering with traditional chemical engines when nuclear thermal rockets offer better Isp and were proven perfectly viable decades ago.

>>11275772
>why they’re bothering with traditional chemical engines when nuclear thermal rockets
cost/regulation

>>11275772
>SpaceX could probably do Mars but I’m curious why they’re bothering with traditional chemical engines when nuclear thermal rockets offer better Isp and were proven perfectly viable decades ago.
Probably because atomic engines will have so many regulations behind them that it wouldn't be worth it at first.

>>11275773
>>11275775

That inhales cocks. I can’t imagine Starship as it’s pictured now would even land on Mars. It’s really big to do a direct ascent. Should design some kind of SpaceX Martian Module that can pop out of Starship, go down to Mars, and ascend without having to bring down that enormous vehicle.

>>11275701
because rockets are better than spaceplanes

>>11275782
>It’s really big to do a direct ascent.
How so? Mars doesn't have alot of gravity compared to Earth, and if SpaceX can do a landing of Starship on Earth, then they can do it on Mars.

>>11275752
BO reached space, not orbit
>>11275782
you lack imagination

>>11275789
>How so? Mars doesn't have alot of gravity compared to Earth

Yeah, but getting off the Moon and into orbit of it takes close to two kilometers of delta/v, and Mars has more than twice the surface gravity of the Moon as well as a significant atmosphere. So it’d have to have enough delta/v to perform an injection burn to Mars, decelerate so it can enter orbit of Mars (unless it aerocaptures), land on Mars, launch from Mars, perform an injection burn to Earth, then decelerate at Earth (unless it aerocaptures). Sounds like a lot to me.

>>11275811
>So it’d have to have enough delta/v to perform an injection burn to Mars, decelerate so it can enter orbit of Mars (unless it aerocaptures), land on Mars, launch from Mars, perform an injection burn to Earth, then decelerate at Earth (unless it aerocaptures).
You know that SpaceX plans to refuel their Starships while on Mars, right?

>>11274470
w-what is this?

>>11275818
>You know that SpaceX plans to refuel their Starships while on Mars, right?

That’s an awesome idea but how are they gonna do it?

>>11275811
it aerocaptures and then aerobrakes down to the surface at both Earth and Mars
it needs to refuel on the surface at Mars to return to Earth

>>11275830
SpaceX is pretty much taking notes from Mars Direct.
http://astronautix.com/m/marsdirect.html

This uses the Sabatier process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reaction

>>11275830
solar power + water + martian CO[math] _2[/math] = methane and oxygen

>>11274703
Fuck me this thing is looking better by the day, this is my favourite iteration just behind kino ITS.

>>11275834
>>11275842
Thanks, but what about electricity for Starship itself? It’s never depicted with whacking great solar panels and all I can find is conjecture about fuel cells.

>>11275863
they haven't got that far yet
batteries for the first test flights and then they'll go from there once they get it operational

>>11275863
Solar film, commercially available product they just need to figure out the best way to deploy it from a rolled or folded position.

>>11275701
>after the design has been in service for over 60 years?
Why are we still using outdated jet engines for airplanes after the design has been in service for over 60 years?
Fucking millennials, "we have to change it because it's been around too long!" This is part of why spaceflight has been fucked up for decades, because they decided rockets weren't cool enough. Except it was boomers saying it back then.
Space planes are a fucking meme, the only one that ever went anywhere was Shuttle, and it still had to be launched by a rocket.

>>11275893
spaceplanes are just a means of packaging a rocket, anon, and they're objectively inferior to the stressed-skin tube design

>>11275897
Space planes have wings and other aero surfaces that are completely fucking useless extra dead weight when you're in space.
At least a rocket landing on its butt is using the same engine it came up with.

>>11275904
exactly
aero-surfaces are necessary if you're going to try to recover your rocket at all, but the trick is to minimize their mass
Falcon 9 and Super Heavy (planned) uses Sergey's grid fins and Starship1 uses those big flaps

>>11275904
>Space planes have wings and other aero surfaces that are completely fucking useless extra dead weight when you're in space.

I mean, you can use them to maneuver in an atmosphere, and plus big planes in real life store fuel *in the wings*

>>11275910
Wings are terrible as fuel tanks in a rocket and the aerosurfaces are used for a total of a few minutes after re entry. Stick some grid fins on and call it a day. Why does everything have to look like a fucking plane.

>>11275950
Because it looks cool!

New bread when

>>11275506
>a cope pr answer
I dont think he cares what anyone fuckong thinks to an extent since he just casually shorts a billion in stocks to fund his space venture
I actually support both oneil and planetside colonies btw

>>11275686
spacex did actually have that problem in florida and thats why they had those u welded sections laying down everywhere
I used to have to set a machine up to 1/64 of an inch and had a 1/32 inch error margin to work with when I used to make tape (yes tape) anything in the world can cause those margins to fucking shit the bed so I dont doubt its difficult with steel/aluminum/carbon fiber.

>>11275106
>tfw no astronaut gf to throw around in space

>>11275629
Ground-based and midcourse defense-pilled

https://planet4589.org/space/papers/space19.pdf

Summary for 2019

>>11276231
44 missiles total with a 56% chance for each one to hit the target. Lmao that's not worth shit.

>>11275038
This "outrage" is entirely in your head, bud.

>SpaceX drawing up plans for mobile gantry at launch pad 39A
https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/01/03/spacex-drawing-up-plans-for-mobile-gantry-at-launch-pad-39a/

>>11276465
Bring on the box on wheels!

>>11276465
I wonder how comparable it’ll be to this behemoth:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CD1KK5RKQTM

>>11276533
You think you're big? You think you're big, kid?

>>11276322
4 per incoming missile: 96% chance of interception

>>11275701
Think about your question some more. What is it that you are asking exactly?

What would a space plane be useful for? Why make a shitty hybrid thing that can be an airplane but also a rocket except it sucks at both? Just make great airplanes and great rockets. A rocket spends a hot minute in the atmosphere on ascent and on landing. What‘s the point of mixing the two? Rockets can land just fine as the past few years have shown even without heavy wings, landing gear or seperate turbines. Just pack more fuel so you can go faster, go longer or carry more stuff.
Same reason why rockets have stages. Sure you can make some crappy single stage to orbit. But just bringing a second engine and tanks and dumping everything that isn‘t essential you can do so much more.

I'm not entirely sure if I should post these but heres what's left of our payload after the exos crash a few months ago.

>>11276623
And heres the only other identifiable part in the top right of this image.

Sorry that they're blurry photos, I didnt take them. Hoping that what's left can be shipped to us and then maybe we could recover data from our microsd cards on board. But we wont know till we get it.

>>11276629
For comparison heres what it looked like prelaunch two launches ago

>>11276623
You had a payload on their rocket? How difficult was it to get them to launch your payload?

>>11274470
based

>>11276654
We had a contract with them through a grant we won. They're great people to work with and it's always been a lot of fun to go out there and hang out and help out each launch. Iwouldn't think its too difficult to get a payload on these small startups, I mean there was a ton of tiny payloads on board ranging from beer hops to cancer cells to assault rifle lower receivers.

I've posted pictures to here everytime I've gone, just thought I'd drop the post-crash pics incase anyone wondered what was happening. We aren't really sure what's going to happen now that we lost our payload but were talking about possibly doing a new experiment since the contract still isnt fulfilled.

>>11276667
I must have missed your posts. What did you put on the the rocket anyway?

>assault rifle lower receivers
>rockets with machine guns
based

>>11276673
We had a research payload on it, I risk doxxing myself talking about it but its focused was to study energy lost in collisions between particles to help better understand planetary formation and how early aggregates may grow beyond the meter size barrier.

>>11275412
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/3xnoz5/rspacex_orbcomm_og2_launch_2_official_launch/?sort=controversial

new thread please

>>11277086
Ask as thou shall receive.

>>11277097
>>11277097
>>11277097
>>11277097