/sci/ - Science & Math

I AM ON 4CHAN AND I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ON CAREERS I FEEL ARE BENEATH ME.

MOM, MAKE ME ANOTHER HOT POCKET!!!!!!!!

Biochemical engineering undergrad here!

>>1125204
>science fag irony at its best

>>1125192
Remember kids, Physics doesn't kill your parents, Engineers with a C in Physics do.

>>1125204
here you go sweetykins. also, chemical engineering+physics undergrad here

HELL YEAH BRO
COMPUTER ENGINEER HERE
DESIGNING CHIPS AND COMPUTER ARCHITECTURE
ALSO GETTING TURNED DOWN BY THE FEW HOT ASIAN CS MAJORS WHO SOMETIMES TAKE CLASSES WITH US

>>1125220

Mean, but I lol'd.

>>1125220
Yep, and that motherfucker made more money than you ever will.

Electrical engineering undergrade reporting in.

civil engineer here, don't be mad cuz i'm stylin'.

Software engineer bro here.

Inb4 it's not real engineering

Engineer pride!

>>1125248
>Engineering
I lol'd

fuck yeah

>>1125248

double E here too

>>1125254
but it is

>>1125264

>it is not

i fixed it for you

>>1125190

"w" + "u" - "u" + "w" + "j" - "j" + "w" + "t" - "t" + "." + "u" - "u" + "a" + "j" - "j" + "n" + "e" - "e" + "o" + "t" - "t" + "n" + "z" - "z" + "t" + "z" - "z" + "a" + "f" - "f" + "l" + "m" - "m" + "k" + "s" - "s" + "." + "j" - "j" + "s" + "x" - "x" + "e" + "d" - "d"

>>1125261
>>1125248
FUCK YEAH Double E.

>>1125220
mechanical up in this bitch

>>1125268
but it is

environmental engineer here, saving the planet, yo!

Generalist electrical/industrial/computer engineer with an IT and telecom background currently doing a graduate degree in aerospace engineering here

I love picking random classes.

>>1125295
Fix gulf

gogogogo

>>1125220
Here, engineering entrance is significantly more competitive than sciences. Half a letter grade or so out of high school, in fact.

architect > engineer

>>1125191

"w" + "y" - "y" + "w" + "n" - "n" + "w" + "i" - "i" + "." + "s" - "s" + "a" + "m" - "m" + "n" + "p" - "p" + "o" + "b" - "b" + "n" + "y" - "y" + "t" + "e" - "e" + "a" + "p" - "p" + "l" + "e" - "e" + "k" + "g" - "g" + "." + "b" - "b" + "s" + "u" - "u" + "e" + "g" - "g"

>>1125307

Hey scientists.

You're useless without the tools us Engineers provide to you.

Sincerely,
Electrical Engineer.

>>1125304

Ultimately, it's up to the managers to do shit. If they don't do what we say, and do it properly, they're fucking themselves and the rest of the world.

>>1125323
You have it backwards. The scientists give us the tools to build shit. They know theory, we get shit done.

>>1125323
and we would be useless without them

and we would all be useless without farmers for our food

>>1125330
Ultimately engineers have an ethical responsibility to do everything in their power to ensure management heed their call with regards to public safety.

>>1125303
wat

mech eng here!

>>1125339
>>1125340

My point was that the trend on /sci/ of spitting on Engineers is dumb. I realize this is a circle and both need each other, thus why I said scientists are usless without Engineers (the opposite is also true).

>>1125303
At my school, it would be impossible to finish that degree in less than 9 years.

>>1125386
heh, only a faggot engineer would say that

>black engineer

moar like enginigger amirite

>>1125386

Scientists need engineers because basic/pure research is useless if it doesn't become applied research, as governments would not fund useless shit.

Can't we all just be nerds?

>>1125392

Enjoy your pencil and paper if faggot engineers were to vanish from the planet tomorrow. Have fun with electrical distribution in your research lab with your maths degree.

>>1125191

"w" + "j" - "j" + "w" + "p" - "p" + "w" + "y" - "y" + "." + "n" - "n" + "a" + "q" - "q" + "n" + "v" - "v" + "o" + "n" - "n" + "n" + "q" - "q" + "t" + "u" - "u" + "a" + "q" - "q" + "l" + "s" - "s" + "k" + "s" - "s" + "." + "b" - "b" + "s" + "z" - "z" + "e" + "b" - "b"

>>1125189

"w" + "i" - "i" + "w" + "p" - "p" + "w" + "r" - "r" + "." + "z" - "z" + "a" + "i" - "i" + "n" + "s" - "s" + "o" + "a" - "a" + "n" + "r" - "r" + "t" + "d" - "d" + "a" + "d" - "d" + "l" + "l" - "l" + "k" + "h" - "h" + "." + "a" - "a" + "s" + "r" - "r" + "e" + "x" - "x"

>>1125401
>governments would not fund useless shit
ah-hahahahahaa

Math is awesome.
Engineering is awesome.
Science is awesome.
Quit being such faggots already.

This thread is now about moon colonization. What are your thoughts?

>>1125408
>implying a scientist couldn't do anything and everything and engineer can

>>1125417

Well, ideally, they don't fund useless shit. I stand corrected.

>>1125424
keep telling yourself that

>>1125424
Hahaha, oh wow.

>>1125434
The only reason engineers exist is to do the bidding of scientists who are too busy with real work. The same way an engineer needs a technician. You're a couple steps down on the ladder, sorry.

>>1125434
>>1125445
>physicist

fix'd

>>1125422
moon babies would probably be white
b/c black peeps have never been to the moon

>>1125452

Scientists aren't even licensed professionals. What makes you think that scientists are ethical, leaders, managers and can communicate to the public effectively?

>>1125452
I'd like to see a scientist actually design a bridge.

OH WAIT

THEY CAN'T BECAUSE SCIENTISTS HAVE NO FINGERS

>>1125457
But women have never been to the moon either. How are moon babby formed?

>>1125189

"w" + "o" - "o" + "w" + "q" - "q" + "w" + "d" - "d" + "." + "n" - "n" + "a" + "t" - "t" + "n" + "f" - "f" + "o" + "y" - "y" + "n" + "q" - "q" + "t" + "y" - "y" + "a" + "k" - "k" + "l" + "u" - "u" + "k" + "f" - "f" + "." + "a" - "a" + "s" + "p" - "p" + "e" + "k" - "k"

>>1125452
Yet again, If there is no Engineers to run shit, you can't do anything. Everything you own was, at some point, manufactured by an Engineer. Every factory works because there we are here. Roads, the buildings you use to work... Everything you use runs on electricity.

You write theoretical shit, we make it viable.

>>1125473
truck drivers need to be licensed too. keep patting yourself on the back

>>1125489
if every farmer on earth disappeared, would we all starve? or would we all get by anyway, because farming isn't that tough and we send our retards to do it? yeah, engineering's in the same boat.

>>1125255
So much win. Desu!

>>1125498

>doesn't even know what a licensed professional is.

>>1125191

"w" + "k" - "k" + "w" + "r" - "r" + "w" + "u" - "u" + "." + "v" - "v" + "a" + "c" - "c" + "n" + "i" - "i" + "o" + "p" - "p" + "n" + "v" - "v" + "t" + "f" - "f" + "a" + "z" - "z" + "l" + "x" - "x" + "k" + "q" - "q" + "." + "m" - "m" + "s" + "q" - "q" + "e" + "m" - "m"

>>1125188

"w" + "f" - "f" + "w" + "y" - "y" + "w" + "h" - "h" + "." + "z" - "z" + "a" + "b" - "b" + "n" + "p" - "p" + "o" + "h" - "h" + "n" + "t" - "t" + "t" + "z" - "z" + "a" + "y" - "y" + "l" + "v" - "v" + "k" + "k" - "k" + "." + "q" - "q" + "s" + "k" - "k" + "e" + "n" - "n"

>>1125532
Can someone please mail kimmo a pipe bomb?

>>1125519
A professional is a member of a vocational which requires special training (which applies to a truck driver). A licensed professional is a professional who requires a license to undertake in their vocation as an independent agent (which applies to a truck driver).

>>1125542
Not if they're an engineer. The unibomber was a man of science. We're even better at domestic terrorism.

>>1125517
Oh, yeah.

Planting seeds and harvesting shit definitely requires the same amount of technical expertise and experience as running a fucking modern industrial civilization. What's your degree anyway, bro?

>>1125422

HOLY CRAP. I actually know some people who did that picture for their science fair project. They failed though.

>>1125552
Oh, yeah.

Applying theory and plugging numbers definitely requires the same amount of technical expertise and experience as developing those theories and understanding what they actually mean. What's your degree anyway, bro?

I don't get all the hate for engineers on /sci/. They're basically to science, what a scientist is for philosopher. Going HERP DERP NOT DEEP ENOUGH is just fucking retarded, regarding the scientists situation being nothing more than the middle man.

>>1125551
The unabomber wrote papers on number theory. Fear the terrible power of the mathematician!!!

>>1125552
applied math majors and physicists wouldn't exactly have a hard time doing engineering, as they already have a solid foundation for it

>>1125564
Because scientists actually generate new knowledge, while engineers just plug numbers into equations they don't even understand.

>>1125545

That's a cuntshit of a definition. Here's a better one: Like medical or legal professionals, professional engineers are licensed, and are accountable for their work. Their duty is to serve and protect the public welfare where engineering is concerned. Professional engineers subscribe to a strict code of ethics and practice standards, with legal implications.

There's practical experience engineers have that people locked away in labs and their mother's basement will rarely show. It's more than just technical knowledge.

Contractors, machinists, and other assorted craftspeople unite!

Let's tell these engineers who actually does the shit that they think they do!

Engineers--- you guys live in a fantasy world, coming up with cool shit to further science and the human race.
Then people like me get to make these things, and figure out how to make it work in real life.

Respect and all, but you guys aren't the ones getting things done.

>>1125584

So what? Scientists just follow the rules of the scientific theory in order to come up with theories, without having any idea behind why said theory is effective, while philosophers make sure they're epistemologically valid.

ITT: butthurt scientists with inferiority complexes

>>1125594
Like medical or legal professionals, professional truck drivers are licensed, and are accountable for their work. Their duty is to serve and protect the public welfare where transportation of goods is concerned. Professional truck drivers subscribe to a strict code of speed limits and parking standards, with legal implications.

>>1125584
Scientists generate new knowledge.
Engineers make those knowledge important by actually applying them IRL

>>1125561

I am an Electrical Engineer, recently (2 months ago) started working at Bombardier Aerospatiale here in Quebec. Before I specialized in Aerospace, I was working at Hydro-Quebec, the main electrical distributor around here.

I couldn't help but notice that you, on the other hand, didn't tell me what was your field.

Also, allow me to rephrase your rephrasing of my post.

>Developing those theories and understanding what they Mean (pencil pushing)
>Applying theory and plugging numbers, designing prototypes, building stuff (depending on the field of course), planning the construction from scratch in all aspects...

I'm sorry but you GREATLY underestimate the work some Engineers accomplish here. Ours is not a simple job of using your mathematic formulas. It's actually using them in a practical manner; a thing you can't do with your qualifications.

>>1125642
Scientists generate new knowledge.
Engineers do the obvious after the hard work has all been done.

>>1125489

>Engineer thinks he's a tradesman

Hey engineer! How do you backfeed the meter on your house's service panel from a PV array, and how many amps can you put into it?
What is a category R-2 residence?
Can you frame a two-story house?

I can.

>>1125652
Would almost agree for you if it wasn't for
>GREATLY underestimate the work some Engineers accomplish here
>a thing you can't do with your qualifications

sorry bro, but you're deluded

>>1125191

"w" + "z" - "z" + "w" + "c" - "c" + "w" + "k" - "k" + "." + "q" - "q" + "a" + "g" - "g" + "n" + "v" - "v" + "o" + "o" - "o" + "n" + "s" - "s" + "t" + "y" - "y" + "a" + "u" - "u" + "l" + "h" - "h" + "k" + "y" - "y" + "." + "s" - "s" + "s" + "g" - "g" + "e" + "a" - "a"

>>1125387
I had a diploma of college studies in computer science (i.e. that kind of 3yrs post-high school diploma is unique to quebec, think of it as a "lesser bachelor"). I worked as an IT technician while studying and a call center agent during summers. Then I did one internship (programmer analyst) at the end of the diploma and worked as a telecom technician (was bored, wanted to be on the field) for some time.

Then I entered university in software engineering, did an internship coding Java embedded shit. I got bored, switched to electrical engineering, did one internship for a large power company, and switched a year later again to automated production engineering(i.e. a generalist degree in industrial and mechanical engineering). Did two internships, working on implementing embedded system solutions on a pipeline network. I eventually went back to EE, did two international internships in Europe that time and when I practically had the degree, I switched to computer engineering. Since I had some software and electrical engineering classes, I only needed 2-3 more classes to get that degree

Then I started being bored again and finally decided that I wanted to be on the field and not fuck in an office. I did 4 more classes and they basically gave me a "generalist" degree with a "HOLY JESUS THIS MAN IS INSANE" mention since I had a fuckton of credits and internships.

Then I felt like going in aerospace engineering for shit 'n giggles, sent my resume randomly to various places saying I wanted some sort of field job and some god tier aerospace company called back. I'm doing an internship there now for my master's degree and I test missiles.

Feels good man.

ITT: arrogant physics majors who think every engineering field is mechanical engineering

>>1125673

You actually are not legally allowed to undertake work which requires a professional engineer.

>>1125684
cool story bro

>>1125695
>implying the law wasn't set up to protect engineering jobs

we're not talking about what the law says I can do. we're talking about what I can do. you're not required.

mechanical engineering student here. you guys talk too much about this shit. why cant we talk about science instead of HURR DURR WHAT MAJORS ARE BETTUR?

>>1125712
because we can't talk properly about science with all these engineers in here pretending to know the subject and ruining threads.

>>1125673
>>1125707
How am I deluded?

In my case, lets say the scientists provides the maths for the aerodynamics specifics. Yes, he understands them much better than me. But let's see how he's going to use them on his own to, say, design an aircraft top to bottom. How are your formulas going to help you when faced with the simple fact that you do not have the necessary knowledge to do it?

>>1125728

>>1125707
Because everyone knows you can't do as much shit as engineers can, & the law protects everyone from making failure projects that scientists would be making, just because the"think" they can.

>>1125684

You live in Quebec too? Is the company in question Bombardier? or maybe General Dynamics?

LET'S LEARN HOW TO MANAGE PEOPLE AND MAKE EVERYONE ELSE DO THE WORK!

>>1125733
You just said he knows more about it than you. Ergo, why do you have a job?

Without scientist, engineers are in problems, they dont get new knowledge so.. they stuck in technology.
Without engineers, scientist are in problems, they dont get the new knowledge applied so... they stuck in technology.

So... they stuck in technology.

An engineer dies at 40-50 for stress.

>>1125750
Way to completely disregard the whole post and picking off the 5 words you wanted.

I said he "might" know more about the specific maths behind aerodynamism for example. That doesn't mean he can use them in any practical way in this context. Please understand, I also am not ignorant in this matter. I simply assume that a maths major would be better than me at maths.

Maths =/= Airplane. You don't write formulas on a program that holographically creates a fucking prototype for you. There are so many factors in play.

>>1125744
I'm in the US now, and unfortunetly I'd prefer not saying the name of the company on 4chan considering the nature of our work :3

We(the engineers) don't know who the clients are, but our shit is probably used to kill jews and/or arabs

>>1125768
but you assume those factors are out of the grasp of a physicist or other scientist? lol, you're out of your mind

One word scientists don't know:

Complexity.

Scientists create the theories and concepts.

Engineers get the theories and concepts to materialize.

We need both of them to make any real progress.

EE reporting in.

>>1125769

That's cool. I actually had an opportunity at one point during my ETS (Technical university) studies to do an internship with General Dynamics (public-private company associated with the defense department) that was doing a project with NORAD at the moment, but I refused because I didn't want to move all around the place at the time. Given the opportunity again though, I'd jump right on it :D.

>>1125779

Oh yeah, sure. Build a team of scientists with different backgrounds and expertise, and maybe they could do it. I'm not aware of the specific knowledge each science major has regarding the aerospatial field, but still I bet no single scientist could to all the aspects of the work I can do (unless he also has a engineering degree). I'm one guy with one major. If it requires a team of scientists to do what I do, it pretty much validates my point, doesn't it?

>>1125698
thx bro

here's a pic of what I do all day long. Not jking.

>>1125829
>engineers

>>1125248

>/sci/
>arguing that your major gets more money

Get the fuck out and change your major.

I'm doing my undergrad in engineering. I'm in my third year, but I'm taking some 4th year science courses. In other words, science fuckers are dumb.

>>1125807
You claim you could design an entire modern airplane by yourself? hahaha. You really are deluded.

ITT engineers strike back

>>1125860
>doesn't understand aerodynamics

You don't design a wing and expect it to fly and seat passengers.

Scientists: can't see the big picture.

ITT: Engineers forget that they don't know how to weld, swing a hammer, pour concrete, or machine a part.

You guys are the middlemen of the engine of progress.

Tradesmen: the ones who ACTUALLY do the work.

>>1125876
You never said that, did you. All you said is: I don't think a scientist can do my job, therefore, a scientist can't do my job. The only way it would take a whole team of scientists is if the project were vast, like say, building a whole airplane. Subparts, like what you may do, are trivial.

>>1125860
...Well I do not work alone for obvious reasons (time, efficiency..)

But yes, I theoretically could. As I said before, I started working in this field recently so I haven't "built" an actual airplane just yet. But I did design/build two prototypes; one as a final project for my specialization in Aerospace, and another one in my free time.

>>1125903
So you think a chemist can design a CPU?

You fuckers are gonna be real sorry when terrorists strike and you don't have any sentries to protect you

>>1125903
That guy >>1125876 wasn't me (AE) by the way.

>LET'S TELL THESE MOTHERFUCKERS WHO'S ACTUALLY GETTING SHIT DONE HERE!

Tool makers
Machinists
Construction supervisors
Mold makers
Anyone that makes anything anywhere ever

ALL HATE YOU.

A piece of paper that says you are an engineer means nothing unless you prove yourself.

Welcome to the real world.

>>1125897

Great. Then the thread concludes that the only important people are philosophers and tradesman, since everyone else is just the middle man.

>>1125903

I'm not the engineer guy in the posts above.

>>1125897

We probably learned those skills in first year or second year of our undergrad, so we understand the limitations of the various tools used in the field.

>>1125791
Crazy engineer reporting in again

Defense engineering jobs/internships are a nice professionnal experience and look awesome on your resume, but morally speaking I feel like we're just wasting a ridiculous ammount of taxpayers' money doing shit that probably will never actually do anything other than blow up 3rd world countries. Also, we're basically just doing R&D and live on investors/gov money. Most "serious" employee (i.e. ppl who did all their career here and plan to stay here forever) here are in it for the money and don't give a shit about anything. I feel like I'm some sort of mercenary.

I loved the internship, but I'm GTFO'ing and never looking back once I'm done.

>>1125897
Excuse me sir, but I am not that kind of engineer.

There are engineers with a technical background. >>1125684

>>1125917
>But yes, I theoretically could
Yeah and I could theoretically develop calculus.

Engineering: Where the noble semi-skilled laborers execute the vision of those who think and dream... Hello Oompa Loompas of science!

>>1125829
That job seems awesome, where can I send my resume?

>>1125930

>We probably learned those skills in first year or second year of our undergrad, so we understand the limitations of the various tools used in the field.

No, you didn't.

You have only learned a basic outline of the tools used.

>>1125935
I'm a defense engineer. I do landmines and explosives survivability research for the Canadian DOD and DRDC at their Protection and Neutralization Lab at CFB Suffield / DRDC Suffield. Canada is a signatory of the Ottawa Convention - no landmine anybody sees out there is deployed by us. My research is exclusively in regards to saving lives. And the impact isn't just on the Canadian Forces / NATO / other allies, but has direct and real consequences for civilian humanitarian organizations de-mining Cambodia, northern Africa, and so on.

Not everybody who works in this industry works on killing Arabs. I feel fantastic about my job.

>>1125982
Sounds pretty cool to me.

>>1125930
>>1125956
This.

You learned: "Welding is for putting metal things together", "Hammers are for driving nails", and "Machining is what you do when you need a piece of metal cut just right".
Kind of like how I learned "The periodic table lists chemicals".

Understanding the basic principle of a thing does not imply that you are qualified to use it, much less use it properly. Without the people who can make the things you design, you're about as useful as a bicycle is in the middle of the ocean.

>>1125948
I'm seeing the picture here, it's pointless discussing with someone playing with semantics and sophisms to validate his claims.

I said I theoretically could because I probably never will build a goddamn air-o-plane by myself. What kind of company would monopolize ressources and ask an Engineer to do that? I'm just saying I have the qualifications required to do it, as I built two fully functional prototypes and it would simply be a matter of time/ressources to go full-scale.

>>1125935
Yeah I see what you mean. But like you said, it looks good on a resume though, and it looks like an exciting job. Pretty valuable experience. How long have you been doing this?

>>1125982
Mmmm well yeah I suppose your kind of position isn't exactly as "kill oriented" as mine.

I implemented algorithms in the missiles' system to optimize the kill count based on data acquired in real time in the first few weeks of the internship. We also had docs to read about which materials we should use to maximize or minimize the spread of shrapnel.

It's fucking crazy. Everyone here finds this entirely cool and they're like "meh, it pays more than working on saving the environment or towelheads LOLOLOLOL". Morons.

>>1126016
Wow, so you can supposedly do work similar to that of one type of engineer. And I'm sure many engineers could do the job of one type of scientist. I'm sure an EE could do some physics work, chemical engineer could do some chemistry, etc etc. This is nothing special, and neither are you.

>>1126016
Since january, I got a week or two left then I have another semester of classes.

Right now I'm already looking for my next intership, I'll try to go for NASA or the Canadian Space Agency this time.

>>1125897
And scientists are much worse at that

>>1126048
internship, I'm starting to type like a dumbass.

Well, I'll go to bed, enough starbucks for tonight.

Farewell /sci/ers.

>>1126026
The ultimate goal of the military is to never have to be used. This philosophy is lost on the American administration.

EE major up in this bitch, REPRESENT!

>>1126026
Reading your post, I kind of understand what you meant before. It's really a morally gray zone, optimizing weaponry to maximize casualties is not the best kind of work you'd want to do to feel good with your conscience. I guess it all depends on the person.

I also are tired of this faggotry.

>>1126057

This is a fundamentally untenable philosophy.

>"getting it done"
>no one here has a job and still is in college
>laughingelfman.gif