/sci/ - Science & Math

yeah

>>11211492
Realistically speaking, who would want this? I have biological incentive to spread my seed, not waste resources on raising some nerd that isn't mine. It's even below getting cucked. I created some imaginary Chad and Stacy to have a baby just so I can be responsible for it for 18 years? There is no purpose to this.

>>11211540
You asshole

>>11211543
me the asshole? I'm just staying true to myself.

>>11211492
China already did this. I think the kid was born last year and he’s supposed to have increased intelligence or something.

>>11211492
No way hahah

>>11211492
Yes. They already are.

>>11211540
true, also intelligence isn't eugenic. Having children is.

>>11211540
You dont get it. It will be done by selection of the best embryo out of a thousand, with some point mutations CRISPRed on top. It will still be your baby, just upgraded.

>>11211569
kids and she's
it was twin girls

>>11211540
Imagine putting your selfishness above the betterment of mankind. People like you should be culled.

>>11211963
> intelligence isn't eugenic. Having children is.
I don't think you know what any of these words mean.

No.
There are far too many ethical concerns that come with genetic modification in embryo.

>>11212651
You don't need to make genetic modification to make smart babies, just a lot of embryos and choose the best from that bunch, is classic selection breeding that we (humans) have done it for thousands of years with animals and plant. You're dumb.

>>11212660
He simply envies that he wasn't selected this way. What he doesn't understand is that he would be selected out. Or does he directly oppose this practice of casting out the dummies? What is so unethical about genetic modification? Especially in the world where alcoholics are allowed to give birth.

>>11211492
There is good evidence that existing genetic variants in the human population (i.e., alleles affecting intelligence that are found today in the collective world population, but not necessarily in a single person) can be combined to produce a phenotype which is far beyond anything yet seen in human history. This would not surprise an animal or plant breeder -- experiments on corn, cows, chickens, drosophila, etc. have shifted population means by many standard deviations relative to the original wild type.
Take the case of John von Neumann, widely regarded as one of the greatest intellects in the 20th century, and a famous polymath. He made fundamental contributions in mathematics, physics, nuclear weapons research, computer architecture, game theory and automata theory. In addition to his abstract reasoning ability, von Neumann had formidable powers of mental calculation and a photographic memory. In my opinion, genotypes exist that correspond to phenotypes as far beyond von Neumann as he was beyond a normal human.
The quantitative argument for why there are many SD’s to be had from tuning genotypes is straightforward. Suppose variation in cognitive ability is 1. highly polygenic (i.e., controlled by N loci, where N is large, such as 10k), and 2. approximately linear (note the additive heritability of g is larger than the non-additive
part).
Then the population SD for the trait corresponds to an excess of roughly N^(1/2)vpositivevalleles (for simplicity we suppress dependence on minor allele frequency). A genius like von Neumann might be +6 SD, so would have roughly 6N^(1/2) more positive alleles than the average person (e.g.,∼600 extra positive alleles if N = 10k).

>>11212691
). But there are roughly +N^(1/2) SDs in phenotype (∼100 SDs in the case N ∼ 10k) to be had by an individual who has essentially all of the N positive alleles! As long as N^(1/2) >> 6, there is ample extant variation for selection to act on to produce a type superior to any that has existed before.
"The probability of producing a "maximal type" through random breeding is exponentially small in N, and the historical human population is insufficient to have made this likely.
The content of this basic calculation underlies the work of animal and plant breeders. As leading population geneticist James Crow of Wisconsin wrote "The most extensive selection experiment, at least the one that has continued for the longest time, is the selection for oil and protein content in maize (Dudley 2007). These experiments began near the end of the nineteenth century and still continue; there are now more than 100 generations of selection. Remarkably, selection for high oil content and similarly, but less strikingly, selection for high protein, continue to make progress. There seems to be no diminishing of selectable variance in the population. The effect of selection is enormous: the difference in oil content between the high and low selected strains is some 32 times the original standard deviation."

>>11212694
Accurate prediction of height from genome has already been accomplished, identifying 10k positively associated loci (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/09/18/190124.full.pdf).). The author has already made a case that the genetic architecture of intelligence is similar to that of height (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1408.3421.pdf).). It is only a matter of time before enough genotype-phenotype pairs are collected to perform a similar analysis on cognitive ability, and identify the estimated 10k SNPs that explain the variance in IQ. After these are identified, an optimized genotype could be discovered and implemented in human embryos via genetic engineering, although the technology here will also have to advance to be able to edit 10k loci reliably.

>>11211492
Yes, and more, we already got a short list of what is to come: http://arep.med.harvard.edu/gmc/protect.html
or has already happened: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612997/the-crispr-twins-had-their-brains-altered/

>>11211569
>he’s supposed to have increased intelligence or something.
Not much, the twins and more are probably not going to have a genius-intellect, but they have a greater tendency for intelligence. As well as immunity to AIDS.

>>11212651
>There are far too many ethical concerns that come with genetic modification in embryo.
Depends, what if such technology is used to cure genetic diseases? Or if its used to prevent cancer or alzheimer, this would already classify it as enhancment but I doubt that anyone would see having more health as ethical wrong. I agree with Nick Bostrom that one has to differentiate between non-positional good traits and positional ones. Human genetic engineering shuldn't just used to repair or prevent illment but help a individual's potential and autonomy. Traits that are independently good like health, fitness and intelligence are to be modified to express the best possible variation. Other traits, that are dependent on social, cultural or political values should be forbidden. For that we need a genetic regulatory agency and to make such treatment free because everyone will benefit from such augmentations.

>>11211492
yeah, and they should, too many dumb or outright psychotic wankers ruining my mood each day when I have to step outside
but muh morals

>>11211492
There are some geneticist there?

A thing i don't get:

Why the chinese researcher used the same tech that is used for gene editing mouse embryos instead of editing a bunch of gametes and getting the correct that got the anti HIV gen? (also you would solve the mosaic cells problem and avoid a lot of letal mutations).

I mean is obviusly fame

I just asking cos when i was in the university they were doing that only on bacteria. So im interested if there is any problem that prevents this and that is why it has to be made in embryos and no in gametes.

>>11211492
No because intelligence is mostly environmental and not genetic.

>>11211492
Yes, sooner than expected even and you can be sure that as soon as the kinks are ironed out a good chunk of the guys in gyms will be shooting up gene modifiers ("people with these genes exist in real life so it's basically natty") for gains. Or the weirdos who currently insert silicone donuts under their scalp will want blood colored sweat or some shit. It's the old game of freaks --> military (super-soldiers or super-loyal for autocracies) --> rich (by then we will see some regulations and fashion designs, brrr) --> everyone (in general a good thing as its mostly means more healthier, smarter and fitter people, but the fringes are going to be mean).
In the next 50 years shit is going to get crazy. First we (relatively) perfected IVF. Then people will ask why we don't get rid of all the single gene diseases, which we honestly could cure in the next 10 years and thanks to CRISPR quite cheaply. Then people will ask if we can do that, why not give people increased cancer/diabetes/whatever resistance. Then why not increase metabolism or strength or intelligence until all the sudden the debate is over and human evolution is nothing but wildcards.

>>11212931
>recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%[7] and 86%.[8].
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380 -017-0001-5
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.. 104
https://www.nature.com/articles/mp 2014105
Don't know if you are serious, but its pretty clear by know that intelligence, not knowledge, is far more genetically than environmental. Nature gives the mass that nurture and free will (or the illusion of it) can form.

>>11211540
I am black, I do not have the choice of saying "no" to genetic engineering if I want my child to actually be successful.

>>11211986
>betterment of mankind
lol who the fuck cares

>>11212956
Eh, some kenyan nobody fucked a rich American slut and the kid became president of the US.

>>11213282
He had to become a satanist homosexual first.

>>11212956
You are an insecure midwit so you fit the profile of an ideal biotech consoomer to waste money on a CRISPR designer baby perfectly. Personally I am waiting for the time when AIs themselves start to design human babies because I don't trust humans (especially whites). You simply can't leave humans with editing multifactorial/manifold/multi-part genes that can easily be ignored/misunderstood due to tight corporate schedules of lowest common denominator-appeasing profit over health corporations.

>>11213282
Barry was a wonder kid indeed. Politics is about being the best sycophantic puppet (=whore) and Barry proved to be one of the best ones (especially when the teleprompter was on).

>>11211966
My baby is the one God gives me. God determines, by Brownian Motion, which of my sperm fertilizes the egg. I choose the best egg by breeding with the youngest females. Everyone knows that.
>>11211986
>betterment of mankind
That's the government's job, not mine.
>>11212956
Let me guess, you're going to change everything about him except his skin color? Lmao even with eugenics blacks still can't get ahead.

everyone who are willing to try designer babies right now should be murdered for human race sake.

>>11213795
no, they're not. you're.

>>11212949

How do they measure intelligence?

So assuming a nation can move the average IQ to 110, what will the social and geopolitical effect be? And 120? 140? 160? It seems like the most powerful tool ever made, far more than nukes, gunpowder, cavalry archers, maybe only rivaled by agriculture.

>>11214178
Their method is depicted in the articles.

>>11214678
While intelligence augmentation will be most influential, other aspects of human genetic engineering are not to be underestiamted. Health and fitness augmentation will proof to be a boon for the individual and society. Only 3 hours of sleep, no genetic disablement or diseases would be some of the benefits.

In general I could see a increase of general quality as thinga aren't done in the thoughtless fashion they are done today.

>>11214689
How would you shorten sleep? It seems pretty mandatory but also disabling, so evolution would want to minimize the time spent sleeping.

>>11214785
>How would you shorten sleep?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2884988/
https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/11/514/eaax2014
https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(19)30652-X

Nature doesn't work to optimize itself, but to just get by.

>>11211492
>Will scientists be able to make super smart babies in the future?
We can do some minor augmentations already today, in 10-20 years we will be able to make genius level babies and further we will be able to make parahuman babies whose nano-enhanced brain could be classified as superintelligence.

>>11212711
So they made White babies that look asian. This is also China its very exaggerated or a outright lie and White people jumped on the eugenic splicing train over a hundred years ago, there has already been super humans milling around.

>>11213282
Forgetting the man was groomed by early relations with the muslim brotherhood and John Brenan a CIA agent turned into a cuck muslim. Barry Obama was also a retard and had to spoonfed everything wouldn't call being a puppet in a rigged election for you to win a achievement thats called corruption.

>>11212711
I believe they're also supposed to be more susceptible to westnile or malaria because of the same gene change, which sucks for them because it's common where they're born
>>11216986
>there has already been super humans milling around.
feelsgoodbro

>>11213795
Why? What's wrong with helping an individual to have better health, fitness and intelligence?

>>11212949
Why should i agree with their definitions of Intelligence?

>>11217411
What is your definition of intelligence?

>>11217099
No one has the right to take that risk. Thats why people who try that should be killed .
DNA is too serious. Think of all the deadly diseases that may remain hidden in the genome of these modified babies? This can lead to human extinction.
Only when we achieve 100% knowledge of genetics can we consider modifying genes of our species under very secure and controled procedures

>scientists select what they believe are the best genes

*a few years pass*

>scientists discover previously unknown vulnerabilities in these set of genes that they were previously unaware of

>turns out your child now has X amount of diseases and risk factors

>>11211492
Genetic manipulation can do anything, so yes.

>>11217421
And those super IQ babies once grown up can figure out how to deal with these genetic diseases, are you serious? Genetic engineering is supposed to edit genetic diseases out of the genome to begin with.

>>11214678
The education system would have to become harder as it would be too easy for 110 average IQ people to sleep through highschool and still get straight As.

>>11211492
are any babies even being born anymore? i'm pretty sure the skynet matrix has destroyed our very nature.

>>11212931
>No because intelligence is mostly environmental and not genetic.

It is a mix of both, hence genetic modification will work, just slower than if it was purely genetic.

>>11217421
>Thats why people who try that should be killed .
Man, I already can see a augment vs preservationist war on the horizon.

>>11217425
*a few more years pass

>scientists fixed those vulnerabilities

>then they discovered new ones

>then they fixed those and it worked

Cry me a river.

>>11211492
Forget intelligence. Give me babies with huge dicks.

>>11211540
>fuck a stacy
>edit the genes so he will be immune to aids
>suddenly the kid isn't mine??
you should be happy we're getting rid of the gay disease.

>Play with human genome is fun! Let edit this gene... and cut these other two and see what happens now!

>>11211492
will scientists be able to make babies at all in 'the future'

>>11217531
>he's immune to aids
>and also has different hair skin and eye color
>has fat lips
>7 ft tall
>bigger dick than you
>quick to anger
>smarter than you
suddenly this kid isn't yours.

>>11212035
I think you need to be 18 to post here. I bet you're about to tell me to not have children to save the planet

>>11211543
>t. designer baby

>>11219152
Mmmm, now that's a poisoned well

>>11211540
>t. never watched GATTACA
Still your kid, just the one of the best kids you could have possibly had within the several billion combinations of gametes.

>>11211492
we can already do that, just breed two smart parents

>>11211540
"I want to bring a random baby into this world instead of a super human"
Like sure have a baby now but you really want to bring some lame average person when everyone are having super babies?

>>11211492
No.
Our high ethic will prevent us from doing that ;)

>>11219591
>still your kid
>according to some movie
that's KEKED at its finest

We have the ability to give your child the ability to be an alpha chad or an alpha stacy. Why wouldn't you?

>>11211540
This
Biological imperatives are the only relevant thing
>>11211986
> mankind
Whats so precious about mankind, if it will have no particle of me in a few generations?

>>11220791
>>11211540
What do you think about cloning yourself ?

>>11220815
Nah, I think the clone might try to fuck me up. And Id feel inferior to him, cos he definetely has telos, and I can't find mine.
Stull would do it for the novelty of seeing myself in 3rd person

Bump

>>11211492
will you be able to buy the cutest baby ever and raise it to be a personal fuck toy?

>>11220828

Mega based.

Maybe the jews will finally be able to rid themselves of their self loathing and other disgusting genetic traits for the betterment of all mankind

>>11211492
I think this is the future, a lot of people don't want to have babies, it's problem in developed countries, so we will turn to lab-made super humans, who will be raised in gay families.

>>11212696
>advance to be able to edit 10k loci reliably.
How long will this take?

>>11212691
You realize that many domesticated animals and crops can't survive effectively in the wild right?
And when they do survive such feral populations tend to revolve features similar to the undomesticated version.
I am skeptical your supersmart babies won't be autistic spergs.

>>11211540
It's good that narcs like you think this way. Your offspring will be treated like blacks in the 1800s within a couple hundred years.

>>11223220
>You realize that many domesticated animals and crops can't survive effectively in the wild right?
I don't see your point. Are saying that genetically engineered humans would not survive in the wild? Ignoring the fact that humanity already lives in a artificial state, if we take a best possible imagined human augment, best possible health, fitness and intelligence, such man would survive far better than any unaugmented human.
Mental disorders who are of genetic origin can be prevented with genetic engineering. One is mistaken if one thinks that it is autism that what gives people their abilities. Rainman and Newton did not discover because of their disability but despite of it.

Bump

>>11211492
well, think of the way AI is created. you don't create a super smart ai, you build a program that makes a super smart ai. the most scientist may be able to do is to simply make them better learner's

bump

We have no idea. We still have not seen if making changes to babies in test tubes will mean that they will have the outcomes we want of them when they reach adulthood. It could be that we have no way of "designing" babies at all

>>11211492
People should be a lot more afraid for intelligence. It takes a lot more than just being smart to be a good and wise person.
Intelligence doesn't determine where you end up, just how fast you get there. It only takes one malevolent genius to fuck up the human race with modern technology. We should have at least learned that from the cold war...

>>11225852
>newspaper cartoons have product placing now
Clown world.

>>11226196
yeah but that's a good thing, putting an end to it all.

>>11226536
an end wouldn't be that bad.
but imagine a totalitarian regime or whatever where people are forced to live a life of absolute suffering. there seems to be no limit to the capability of humans to torture others.

>>11212937
Genetically modifying an embryo is very different from in vivo modification of a fully grown adult.

>>11211492
no

future kids will just be bombarded with more trivia

only a few will have an interest in theory

Is Tesla's whole business model selling me semen? Did they "fall behind" on Model 3 production when I became homeless because they could no longer suck the scum out of the drain in my sink?

All of these semen creatures will be put to death, all of the mothers that consecrated the abomination in their wombs, all of the mother's husbands, all of other children of the mother and her husband, anyone who acted provisionally as a parent to a semen monster, and also all of the children of anyone who acted provisionally as a parent to a semen monster. They will all die on the first day that I have the power order their deaths, pending a few possible hours for logistical issues.

>>11227274
Judging by the way my enemies' servants activated the sexual torture implant in my anus as soon as I clicked post on this, I think it is highly likely that the real cash cow at Tesla is their semen thieving cuckold rackets.

You think Tesla's chief lawyers keep quitting when they find out that Tesla's cash cow is that they're steal my semen?
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/teslas-third-general-counsel-last-year-quits

>increase IQ .. increase IQ.. increase IQ...

IQtards, why dont you foucus on fix the consciousness problem?

Obliterate genes responsible for self awareness >>>>>>>>>>>> GIGANTIC ABYSS >>>>>>>>> IQ ENCHANTMENT

>>11227395
>wanting to become a dog
>not using genetic engineering to make humanity into a race of autosentient superintelligences.

>>11217425
That's why I favour doing the necessary 15 years of research and computer modeling prior to implementation.

>>11227395
>2019-(16/365)
>iq enchantment
>not hexing your headspace
really bewitched my brain

Did they delete my post about Tesla's business model is selling my semen, and that the reason they "fell behind on model 3 production" when I became homeless is because they could no longer suck the scum out of the drain in my sink, and that the reason Tesla's general councils keep quitting is probably because they are flabbergasted when Elon tells them what Tesla's business model really is?

Rest assured: I will put to death every semen monster, every woman who consecrated the abomination in her womb, the husband or male counterpart of the women who consecrated the abomination, all of the other children of the mother and that man, as well as anyone who acted provisionally as a parent to a semen monster, and also all of the other children of anyone who acted provisionally as a parent to a semen monster. (The term children refers to all descendants: children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, great great...)

Bump

>>11227998
Could this not be accomplished simply by having the absence of math

>>11211569
This is only what they admit to.
They were modified to be HIV resistant and increased intelligence came as a side effect.

>>11212956
>if I want my child to actually be successful.
Dummie

>>11215707
I want out when or if humans eventually become an out-right economic resource that can be "farmed" more than they already are.

I can't wait to buy some land away from all of this shit.

>>11211540
So create some imaginary super Stacy who will trojan horse your genes everywhere else. Hell, you could have the kids carry most of your genes except a handful.

>>11223563
I think he's saying that engineered humans wouldn't even be able to exist in society.

The point of biotechnology is allowing me to become a practically immortal femboy.

>>11230496
>immortal femboy
Are you throughly sub?

>>11211492
It really isn't a question of if they could, but if they will be allowed to. Some places might allow it, but the EU for instance already doesn't allow genetic modification on crops due to the retarded French, so no way they'll ever allow modifying babies.
China was also freaking out about the modified babies some guy made over there, so it's quite unlikely to be allowed there as well.

>>11211492
Read zis

https://www.gwern.net/Embryo-selection
https://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/selection/2019-kharavani.pdf

>>11230495
Why would that be the case? If an augment was born with the best possible health, fitness and intelligence by using already existing gene variation, then he should be life atleast as good as your common human. If we utilize synthetic XNA and give birth to parahuman, I also don't see the issue, as long as they are capable of making rational decisions it should be workable.

>>11229826
Machines can do math (prove theorems) with absencensse of consciousness.
Consciousness is a catastrophy, it exists only for us to suffer. Subjectivity is useless since we there's no freewill.

>>11230561
That's exactly why it's revolting to equalize logical-mathematical intelligence with general intelligence.

>>11211513
Why

>>11211492
Hopefully. And hopefully responsibly. (Well-confirmed and researched/tested selection & edits.)
People should probably first research epigenetics and other factors on how to improve intelligence after birth though.

Anybody read Change Agent by Daniel Suarez? It's a biopunk book that touches these issues.

>>11230027
>They were modified to be HIV resistant and increased intelligence came as a side effect.
And there's still no evidence that either of these things are what has actually happened.

>>11231289
Because they already can. By fucking smart girls.

>>11213417
God has been content with giving newborns a hundred thousand different lotteries in their genetics where the grand prize for all of them has been some unfathomably painful, incurable, and ultimately terminal disease, mutation, or defect since time began. Look at the ones born retarded, crippled, or blind or deaf or with a time-bomb tumor that only was found in their teenage years just to kick 'em right when they're hitting their stride in life, and tell me God ever gave a shit about them except as the punchline to the blackest jokes he could think of.

If God made us this intelligent, then he made us intelligent enough to see what is horrible in nature and know that it must be actively stamped out, forever. If you believe otherwise, then shit, you can turn your back on all modern medicine while you're at it, because it is all literally nothing if not artificial meddling in God's nature.

If he didn't want us to live, he should have created us in the first place- at least not this smart- and he sure as shit shouldn't have let us eat that apple.

>>11231500
That is a honest opinion. You should study paleontology.

>>11223304
>blacks in the 1800s
More like blacks in the 1970s. Don't exaggerate racism. It's in poor taste.

>>11230496
you want to be cummed inside in all your little slutholes for all eternity'?????

Bump

>>11211540
Have you never seen fraternal twins that are not identical? Designer babies are still yours, only that instead of blindly rolling for dubs, you get to choose your octa dubs

>>11211540
I’m an Aspie and I would do it because I can’t talk to women, let alone raise kinds. That way at least, if they’re made in a laboratory and an artificial womb, I could dump the baby in an orphanage afterwards in order to turn him into a perfect survival machine/ social adaptor.
Eventually, if I did it enough times, social pressure would force one of my children into becoming a genius in order to overcome homelessness and a life of crime/ low social status. It’s a bullet-proof plan.

>>11211492
At the end of the day, after all the shitposts and non-arguments are written, the first country/culture that starts to do this systematically will annihilate the "muh equality of outcome" pleb gunk within a century- and there's nothing plebs can really do about it in the long run, other than die.
As it stands, it'll probably be the asian insectoids so everyone else is fucked.

>>11211540
You just select the best embryo and get the best child you could've had, dumbshit. It's still entirely yours.

>>11213417
>godcucks trying to actively keep humanity back with their retarded shit.
Business as usual.

>>11211492
yeah but it's more ethical to just alter already living organisms.

SOON WE WILL HAVE ARE MUPPET BABIES! FOR THE FUTURE!

>>11214678
This is antisemitic.

>>11230501
>China was also freaking out about the modified babies some guy made over there
The chinese public didn't freak out, they weren't informed at all. China just tried to appease the global community by sweeping it down.

>>11215707
This

>>11211540
I want my future kids to be better than me In every way

>>11211492

god i hope so

It's the only way to save the white race, realistically speaking.

Without Designer babies few hundred years (give or take) from now whites will be breed out of existence due to most white males staying virgins while white females get bred by black and other PoC males

*ahem* so realistically speaking how moral would it be to say.. theoretically of course.. genetically engineer a baby with someone else's egg and sperm of course and raise it for 18 years (when it is fully legal of course) to keep it as your waifu?

>>11230526
>If we utilize synthetic XNA and give birth to parahuman, I also don't see the issue, as long as they are capable of making rational decisions it should be workable.
I would suggest not wanking over this, it's not going to happen, if it does in what is currently human lifetimes it's not going to be good (we cannot model proteins well enough and are nowhere near to modelling proteins well enough, we're also quite bad at working out stuff with RNA).

It gets really annoying having tech nerds doing vaguely life science related shit suddenly spew a 15min half baked bunch of crap on XNA stuff at every fucking talk when asked the simplest questions.

>If an augment was born with the best possible health, fitness and intelligence by using already existing gene variation, then he should be life atleast as good as your common human.
Define good, define happy etc etc. Even more important than the most successful people also among the smartest (Bill Gates apparently does have some serious chops academically and didn't go full retard with his foundation so is smarter than the average bear), are the smartest people the most successful? I would argue no. It can be frustrating when the people who hold the keys are much stupider than you and cannot see what you see, so you either need to be "Machiavellian" or not pursue the truth (or both).

How would it be to have a genetically augmented child?