/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11181748
>mfw

some more links if you don't want to click on squarespace.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30183509

https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/neco_a_01133?journalCode=neco

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180829115456.htm

>>11181753
Microwaves turn you into a bored astronaut?

>>11181748
STFU schizo
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/image/Og4JACsBgNrrh1uYZCF5-w/
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/image/eZ4Yg26q2i3fKohDYhW6Bg/
>>/sci/image/eZ4Yg26q2i3fKohDYhW6Bg

>>11182271

make a real argument, if you can. the science supports my position>>11181867
>>11181748

bump

>>11181748
It's psychosomatic.

www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/01/the-real-story-behind-the-havana-embassy-mystery

didn't trump recently give Israel the right to develop all this tech?

>>11184418
>www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/01/the-real-story-behind-the-havana-embassy-mystery

bullshit. all of them at the same time? give me a break

>>11184654
It's specifically not all at the same time, most of the people with "symptoms" only showed up AFTER one person reported and doctors began checking everyone. I.e. the symptoms showed up after people were told that there was some kind of "attack." This is classic mass hysteria.

>tfw mom made me buy her those wireless ear buds

How can I convince my family and non existent friends that RF devices so close to their skull all the time is a bad idea?

>>11185087
It's harmless.

>>11185081

these are specific symptoms among diplomatic personnel in a hostile country. the chances that this was a random coincidence is basically nil

>>11185126
Of course it's not a random coincidence. Diplomats in hostile countries fear attacks, therefore mass hysteria over a perceived attack is likely in hostile countries. It's like you didn't even read the article or at least didn't understand it. There is no evidence of an actual attack and all evidence points toward a conversion disorder.

Did we ever get info on the incidents in China?

>>11185126
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/15/magazine/diplomat-disorder.html

>>11185154
Yes, it's mass hysteria transmitted from the diplomats in Cuba.

>>11185114
No, it isn't

>>11185136

mass hysteria is more common among common people, not U.S. diplomats, many of whom are CIA using diplomatic cover. this wasn't some psychosomatic incident, the technology exists and looks like the Russians were doing some experimenting

>It's like you didn't even read the article or at least didn't understand it. There is no evidence of an actual attack

wrong and ironypilled

“These individuals appeared to have sustained injury to widespread brain networks without an associated history of head trauma.”

further, the article cites an erroneous understanding of the purported MW mechanism. the scientists interviewed think the effects would have to be thermal. Dr. Bruno (Los Alamos PhD cited in the OP) makes clear the attack vector of pulsed microwaves is bioelectric, not thermal)

"mass hysteria" is the equivalent of "weather balloon"

>>11185169
It is.

>>11185170
>mass hysteria is more common among common people, not U.S. diplomats, many of whom are CIA using diplomatic cover.
Please explain how you calculated this. The amount of "common people" is much larger than the amount of US diplomats in hostile countries, and the rate of mass hysteria in various populations is not published in the scientific literature as far as I can see.

Not to mention that if you want to argue from probability, then you would need to compare the probabily that this is mass hysteria to the probability of diplomats being attacked by microwaves. Is that "common?"

Then there's the small problem that in order for microwaves to produce the claimed effects, it would have to have killed them: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/scientists-and-doctors-zap-theory-that-microwave-weapon-injured-cuba-diplomats/2018/09/06/aa51dcd0-b142-11e8-9a6a-565d92a3585d_story.html

>“These individuals appeared to have sustained injury to widespread brain networks without an associated history of head trauma.”
Appearance of injury without physical trauma, that's exactly what psychosomatic illness is. The stupidity of pulling a quote like this out of context from the article when anyone can read the sentences around it is pretty impressive.

>Dr. Bruno (Los Alamos PhD cited in the OP) makes clear the attack vector of pulsed microwaves is bioelectric, not thermal)
The paper says nothing about the Frey effect, which is observed to have thermal effects. Clearly you have no clue what you're talking about and are just connecting things that appear naively similar.

>>11185172
Mass hysteria appears to be the answer since its the only one consistent with all the evidence and you are unable to present an argument against it besides the laughable and invalid claims that "diplomats can't have mass hysteria" and "mass hysteria is like weather balloons." Pathetic.

>>11185713
>the rate of mass hysteria in various populations is not published in the scientific literature as far as I can see.

there's no other similar incident reported anywhere involving civilians. if something like this happened in a corporate office, involving dozens of employees seeking medical treatment, it would make the news.

this isn't random hysteria either, these were very specific, consistent reports on the effects involved from serious, sober professionals.

>Many of those stationed in Havana reported hearing "intensely loud" sounds coming from a specific direction
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/23/health/cuba-sonic-attacks-brain-mri-study/index.html

> to the probability of diplomats being attacked by microwaves. Is that "common?"

MW weaponry is being developed both domestically and by our enemies. the fact that this happened in Cuba, Russia's historical ally in the region, shortly after Russia reestablished their presence on the island, further suggests this was an attack. this is the same Russia that is ratcheting up tensions across the globe, encroaching on the West, and developing and testing other dangerous technology (with several recent high-profile 'accidents', implying a level of conflict that is greater than what is publically acknowledged).

>The Russians Are Back in Cuba (2014)
https://havanatimes.org/features/the-russians-are-back-in-cuba-2

>Moscow was identified in a news report as the main suspect in the string of mysterious attacks against U.S. embassy personnel and relatives in Havana.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article218207030.html

cont.

>>11185713
>>11186621

the WaPo article you cited just repeats the reference to the Frey Effect, ie. that a thermal vector would have to be responsible. again, this is a faulty understanding of the science, and had you actually read Dr. Bruno's paper instead of ctrl + f "frey" you would have found the answer. here you go, lazy retard;

>It has been argued repeatedly that cellphones must be safe because a single microwave photon does not have enough energy to break a chemical bond. This argument would perhaps be convincing if the photon flux were less than 1 photon per square wavelength per photon period (equivalent to a photon density of < 1 per cubic wavelength). However, this condition, which holds for some common sources of ionizing radiation, does not hold for cellphone exposures (Table 1). This means that while ionizing radiation is typically in the pure quantum limit of low photon density, cellphones and cell towers operate in the classical wave limit of high photon densities. In this situation the energy of each photon is often irrelevant.

>That coherent photon energies can combine to do work (including work other than just heating) is most clearly illustrated by optical tweezers, which can be used to move bacterial cells but cause physiological damage in the process [Rasmussen et al. 2008]... In fact, non-thermal microwave damage to ultrastructure has been reported [Webber et al., 1980], and there are many reports of cellphone signals damaging the blood-brain barrier.

the Ford/FCC paper also explores bioelectric effects involved

>the central nervous system is influenced by certain wave components contained in the electromagnetic waves generated by a short-wave transmitter

>The author observed that such reflexes occur with a speed which cannot be attributed to the influence of heat, but rather that a major role is played by the electrical influence of the vegetative nervous system...

cont.

>>11185170
>[these] microwaves [are] bioelectric, not thermal
EM is EM

>>11185713
>>11186621
>>11186691

>The effect of high-frequency energy on sensory nerves also cannot be explained by heat, since analgesic results are generally observed with minimum current-strength dosage without any heat effect...

>Hydrogen ion concentration by the influence of short-waves:...With the application of the shortest wave lengths, where heating was at a minimum, the highest degree of acidification was found...The authors believe that this acidification in the short-wave field is related to electrical and physical processes at the cell surface and cell membrane.

>I was able to observe rhythmic contractions of the left arm in a patient during treatment of the left side of the body in the condensor field of a 6 m wave-length transmitter; these contractions promptly disappeared after the transmitter was shut off. Treatment was conducted with a large electrode gap of 10 em with no detectable generation of heat in the patient.

>Dalton16 also investigated the influence of short-waves on the galvaniotonic contraction of the frog gastrocnemius. The contractions produced by nerve stimulation·were considerably reduced by the treatment in the short-wave field until they were completely extinguished...No detectable heating -could be observed even with the most sensitive thermocouples...According to further studies of the author, the effect probably takes place mainly in the nerves

cont.

>>11185713
>>11186621
>>11186691
>>11186734

>The fact that the intermittent short-wave energy has a more intensive influence on motor nerves can.. be explained by the fact that a stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system with an intermittent high-frequency energy excites all nerve fibres synchronously with the ex~itation impulses flowing from the sympathetic nervous system and thus synchr:onously with the pulses of the short-wave field. As a result of this synchronization, all nerve fibres are excited simultaneously, leading to a considerable increase of the intensity of the action current. In the stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system with a constant high-frequency energy, the excitation pulses passing through the nerve fibres (action current components) are d esynchronized and the resulting action current consequently is considerably weaker than is the case with the synchronization of its components.

>The influence of short-wave energy on sensory nerves as well as on motor nerves cannot be attributed to the evolution of heat in the test subject; since the dosage utilized by most of the above-mentioned authors was so small that any heat effect is impossible and the slightest heat effect produced pain, and heat is known to cause the opposite effect. The findings reported by Weissenberg and by Hunecke clearly indicate that a direct influence on the central nervous system is involved here.

cont.

>>11185713
>>11186621
>>11186691
>>11186734
>>11186737

>Pflomm conducted a detailed study of the effect of short waves on the vascular system. He found that a dilatation of the blood vessels and particularly of the capillaries takes place under the influence of short waves. The capillary dilatation attains the 3-10-fold value. In the capillaries with maximum dilatation, a pulsating backflow from the venous region results. This capillary dilatation persists for several days following short-wave treatment. These phenomena cannot be explained by the
action of heat...

>A capillary dilatation persisting for many days cannot be achieved by simple heating. Fflomm considers these special vessel dilatations to be caused been influence on the autonomic nervous system by short waves in the manner of an inhibition of the sympathetic nervous system and an increase of the vagal tonus.

>Short-wave energy influences not only the vessels but also the heart rate and does so not only by acceleration but also deceleration of the heart rate - a sign that an effect opposite to that of heat is involved in this case.

cont.

>>11181926
>Microwaves turn you into a bored astronaut
BRB defrosting my head for 10 mins

>>11185713
>>11186621
>>11186691
>>11186734
>>11186737
>>11186742

>Horn, Kauders and Liebesny reporting on cases of paralysis and schizophrenia subjected to repeated treatments of the skull in the condensor field, found a notable increase of the total albumin level in the cerebro-spinal fluids as well as a temporary increase in the cell count...No heat sensation was observed during treatment.

>On the basis of the above-cited data we have demonstrated that high-frequency energy has a special influence on the central nervous system, which by no means can be attributed to the effect of heat, or to the effect on the sensory organs-.- Under the influence of short-waves, the. central autonomic system is affected without participation of the sensory organs, and the influence on the somatic nervous system takes place by the control of its readiness to function from the autonomic sector.

>Furthermore, it has been found that the action of intermittent high-frequency currents and waves has a much greater influence on the autonomic nervous system than the action of continuous currents and waves.

cont.

>>11185713
>>11186621
>>11186691
>>11186734
>>11186737
>>11186742
>>11186753

>an extremely small dosage of a short-wave application (with prevention of any heating) and particularly with the application of intermittent energy(damped waves, current impulses) results in phenomena (reduction of the thresholdof the galvanic stimulus, slowing of the heart rate, etc.), which are even transformed into their opposite under the influence of heat.

>Since the brain compounds have identical electrical data as salt solutions in the band of very high frequency waves, they can be replaced by such salt solutions in model concepts. Similar to the behavior of salt solutions the resonance absorption in ganglion cells should be promoted by the increased damping of electromagnetic waves and inhibited by heating. The resonance absorption in the ganglion cells exhibits a relationship with the applied frequency, i.e., in the very high frequency region, the absorption increases with the increasing frequency. The resonance vibrations in the ganglion cells are to be attributed to the effect of the higher harmonics superimposed on the fundamental oscillation.

>>11185713

also related;

>Limiting the level of exposure on the basis of a single cell is only likely to go wrong if there are multicellular structures that concentrate RF energy from a larger volume into one cell. This could happen due to resonances, or focusing, or conductive 'circuits'...
-Bruno/(arxiv link)

>Hunecke's method allows to influence the autonomic nervous system by means of high frequency energy without participation of the sensory organs as well as without direct flow of high-frequency current through the ganglion cells. Therefore, we can assume that electrical pulses are conducted to the ganglion cells in their original shape along the peripheral nerves.
-Ford/(fcc.gov link)

>>11186694

if you think only heat can cause the damage then you're not considering the destructive potential of the signal in its entirety.

>>11186621
>there's no other similar incident reported anywhere involving civilians.
I don't know what you mean by "similar." There have many reports of mass hysteria among civilians who believed they were under attack from gas or biological weapons since WW1.

>if something like this happened in a corporate office, involving dozens of employees seeking medical treatment, it would make the news.
It has. Again, you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. Mass hysteria occurs frequently among groups under high stress.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/2BDC2262E104B8A33F3DD49773DA0D8B/S0007125000268578a.pdf/protean_nature_of_mass_sociogenic_illness.pdf

>this isn't random hysteria either, these were very specific, consistent reports on the effects involved from serious, sober professionals.
Of course mass hysteria is consistent, the whole point is that it transfers among people as a specific concept.

>Many of those stationed in Havana reported hearing "intensely loud" sounds coming from a specific direction
The sound was recorded and determined to be a jungle cricket. Again, did you read the article?

>MW weaponry is being developed both domestically and by our enemies.
There is no evidence of microwave technology being developed to harm people's brains. You're being purposefully vague. Try arguing honestly.

>>11181748
This was one of my least favorite books I ever read.

>>11186691
>the WaPo article you cited just repeats the reference to the Frey Effect, ie. that a thermal vector would have to be responsible. again, this is a faulty understanding of the science, and had you actually read Dr. Bruno's paper instead of ctrl + f "frey" you would have found the answer. here you go, lazy retard;
I did read the paper, what you quoted has no relevance. Does cellphone radiation cause auditory sensations? No. Does the optical tweezer effect cause auditory sensations? No, and the optical tweezer effect doesn't even work at microwave frequencies, making it even more irrelevant. Again, you are just naively connecting things where no connection exists. It's pretty pathetic watching you make an avalanche of posts with no coherent argument, as if one might emerge from them by random chance. Seek psychiatric assistance for your paranoid delusions.

>>11186816
>There is no evidence of microwave technology being developed to harm people's brains.

This poster is a shill trying to muddy the waters about a technology some organization would prefer remain secret.

>>11186816
>I don't know what you mean by "similar."

nothing recent involving sounds and sensations in the head.

>It has.

[citation needed]

not just any mass hysteria, something with symptoms similar to this involving dozens of people in the same location

>Of course mass hysteria is consistent

many of these people reported sensations coming from a specific direction. that's not something you'd expect due to hysteria. it *is* something you'd expect from a directed MW signal

>The sound was recorded and determined to be a jungle cricket.

one theory (among many) by 2 people. that wouldn't explain sounds like "grinding metal," "piercing squeals" or "pressurelike or vibratory sensory stimuli". it wouldn't explain why the symptoms were so acute even indoors. it wouldn't explain why nobody has ever had a similar problem with this cricket before - is this a new cricket? no it's not. it doesn't explain why only americans in a hostile country recently reoccupied by our chief geopolitical adversary were the only ones affected, and not anybody else on cuba or any other caribbean island (altho canadians, a U.S./5 eyes/NATO/etc. ally reported effects later). in other words, it's a nonsense cover story ~"swamp gas"

>There is no evidence of microwave technology being developed to harm people's brains. You're being purposefully vague. Try arguing honestly.

moron, you can't see what's right in front of your face.

the arxiv link in the OP is by a biophysics PhD working at the federal weapons research lab at Los Alamos, the same outfit that developed the atomic bomb, warning of the dangers of microwave radiation, specifically when pulsed (ie. if a cell signal were reshaped to be maximally biodestructive, aka weaponized).

>>11186834
>Does cellphone radiation cause auditory sensations? No.

cellphone radiation is not deliberately pulsed to be bioeffective or biodestructive. microwaves can cause auditory sensations, that's also in the arxiv link and well established in the field.

>Another example of how an optical tweezer-like effect might come about is microwave hearing. Sharp et al. [1974] proposed photon pressure as the mechanism for this well established effect, and also for the observation that objects like crumpled foil or paper emit sound when exposed to strong, but non-thermal, pulsed microwaves.

> and the optical tweezer effect doesn't even work at microwave frequencies

wrong again

>Although the microwave tweezer can't drag around cells (a water-filled cell would heat up and die,) it should be able to manipulate other microsized objects....Prather and his colleagues are now constructing a larger lens, with an array of microwave beams to smoothly move the particles longer distances.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2006/03/perfect-lens-makes-perfect-tweezers

>This makes it possible to hold, move or rotate individual particles inside a sample — even if they cannot be touched directly. The tailor-made light beam becomes a universal remote control for everything small. Microwave experiments have already demonstrated that the method works. The new optical tweezer technology has now been presented in the journal Nature Photonics.
https://scitechdaily.com/revolutionary-optical-tweezers-manipulate-atoms-molecules-and-living-cells-like-tractor-beams

>an avalanche of posts with no coherent argument

the posts clearly demonstrate the validity of my argument. successful communication involves signal and reception. your receptive ability is poor.

>>11186850
>This poster is a shill

I had a similar impression.

>>11186850
OK, schizo.

>>11186926
>>11186834

>cellphone radiation is not deliberately pulsed to be bioeffective or biodestructive.

*under normal operating conditions. how a technology usually behaves and what it is fully capable of are 2 different animals

>>11186931

lying shill or moron, pick 1

>>11186885
>nothing recent involving sounds and sensations in the head.
Why would it have to be recent and involving sounds and sensations in thre head?

www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-oct-27-mn-62259-story.html
>In Tennessee, an office worker opens a foul-smelling envelope. She complains of dizziness, and soon 16 co-workers are reporting similar symptoms

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2000/1215/p2655.html
>If many people in the group start to feel sick at about the same time, we might think they have mass psychogenic illness. The group might be a class in a school or workers in an office.

https://www.indiana.edu/~engs/articles/hysteria.html
>Twentieth century examples of this phenomena have been generally found in factories, the workplace, and in schools.

>not just any mass hysteria, something with symptoms similar to this involving dozens of people in the same location
Why would symptoms have to be similar? How many groups think they are being attacked by sonic weapons? You're splitting hairs because you have no argument.

>many of these people reported sensations coming from a specific direction.
Cricket noises conne from a specific direction, tbe direction where the cricket is.

>it *is* something you'd expect from a directed MW signal
It's actually the exact opposite, microwave auditory sensations don't come from a specific direction, the sensation of sound is produced directly in the brain. This shows your inability to think logically. The directionality of the microwave itself can't be heard and has no connection to the sensation having a direction.

>one theory (among many) by 2 people. that wouldn't explain sounds like "grinding metal," "piercing squeals" or "pressurelike or vibratory sensory stimuli"
It explains the sound actually recorded, which does sound like grinding metal or high pitched squealing. Once again you've been caught just making shit up without even bothering to listen to the recording.

>>11186885
>it wouldn't explain why the symptoms were so acute even indoors
Were they acute though? It only takes one person to mistake a cricket for a sonic attack and then that information being spread around for people to report noises that they normally wouldn't notice or don't even exist as more instances of a sonic attack.

>it doesn't explain why only americans in a hostile country recently reoccupied by our chief geopolitical adversary were the only ones affected
Because they're the ones who had something to fear and were told an attack occurred. It's amazing how you still don't get how mass hysteria works.

>the arxiv link
Is irrelevant, as I already explained. Instead of going into detail on how it's relevant you resort to vague appeals to expertise which don't even work since his expertise is not telling you that microwave weapons can produce auditory sensations. It's clear you have no actual argument or understanding of the topic beyond a surface level connection of "microwaves."

>in the OP is by a biophysics PhD
Actually he's just a physics PhD.

>working at the federal weapons research lab at Los Alamos
Actually he hasn't worked at Los Alamos since 2012. But it was a really great story you were weaving, please continue.

Ironically, Bruno claims to be em- sensitive, which has itself been proven to be a psychosomatic disorder.

>>11186966

>Cricket noises conne from a specific direction, tbe direction where the cricket is.

not that specific, read the actual reports;

>At least some of the incidents were confined to certain rooms with laser-like specificity

>The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. He climbed back into bed. Inexplicably, the agonizing sound hit him again.

>Some victims awoke with ringing in their ears and fumbled for their alarm clocks, only to discover the ringing stopped when they moved away from their beds.

>The attacks seemed to come at night. Several victims reported they came in minute-long bursts.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-sonic-weapon-attacks-at-us-embassy-in-cuba-deepens

the symptoms are also multiple and physical, not just psychological;

>Some have mild traumatic brain injury, known as a concussion, and others permanent hearing loss.

>...Canadians were harmed, too, including some who reported nosebleeds.

>Other symptoms have included brain swelling, dizziness, nausea, severe headaches, balance problems and tinnitus, or prolonged ringing in the ears. Many victims have shown improvement since leaving Cuba and some suffered only minor or temporary symptoms.

>>11186995
first see>>11186996

the arxiv link is relevant because it refutes your claim that nobody is developing this technology. it also demonstrates that indeed MW can be used to produce auditory sensations as well as cause biological harm

>Actually he's just a physics PhD.

>ABOUT WILLIAM
>Ph.D. in physics (theoretical biophysics) from Berkeley, undergraduate degrees in physics and math from MIT
facebook/william.j.bruno.9

>Actually he hasn't worked at Los Alamos since 2012.

I said "the arxiv link in the OP is by a biophysics PhD working at the federal weapons research lab at Los Alamos"

that is true. that paper was published under the auspices of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, pic related. you've got nothing but empty semantics that are also incorrect

and btw, Dr. Bruno still works in Los Alamos, for the New Mexico Consortium. Guess who they are???

>Established in 2006, the New Mexico Consortium (NMC) partners with Los Alamos National Laboratory in order to develop, implement and continually improve models that encourage and support collaborative research across its partner institutions


>>11186936

>>11186926
>cellphone radiation is not deliberately pulsed to be bioeffective or biodestructive. microwaves can cause auditory sensations, that's also in the arxiv link and well established in the field.
>>Another example of how an optical tweezer-like effect might come about is microwave hearing. Sharp et al. [1974] proposed photon pressure as the mechanism for this well established effect, and also for the observation that objects like crumpled foil or paper emit sound when exposed to strong, but non-thermal, pulsed microwaves.
This is really funny, foil or paper crumpling is not an auditory sensation, it's actual noise! You're reading comprehension is atrocious.

>wrong again
>>Although the microwave tweezer can't drag around cells (a water-filled cell would heat up and die,)
That's exactly the point, do you not realize the cells in your brain have water? Now we've gone full circle back to my original point, which is that if you tried to get these effects in someone's brain you'd burn them to a crisp.

>the posts clearly demonstrate the validity of my argument.
They don't. Present an actual argument.

This shit with the diplomats in Cuba is the dumbest psyops I ever saw. I see they tried to tone down the retardation by changing the soundwave beams to electromagnetic ones.

Were Cold War era ploys this shitty? It really feels like everything in the world is being dumbed down, even the evil conspiracy shit is more stupid than it sued to be. Has it become this easy to become a proverbial evil illuminati?

>>11186996
>not that specific, read the actual reports;
These are just reports though, not actual noises that can be studied. They could just be mundane noises such as tinnitus that were exaggerated and focused on due to mass hysteria, or full scale hallucinations.

>>Some have mild traumatic brain injury, known as a concussion, and others permanent hearing loss.
This was already addressed, evidence of physical trauma was not found. These symptoms are indicative of known psychosomatic disorders:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0141076819877553?journalCode=jrsb
>A characteristic feature of combat syndromes over the past century is the appearance of an array of neurological complaints from an overstimulated nervous system that are commonly misdiagnosed as concussions and brain damage. A signature feature of shell shock was concussion-like symptoms. Like today, their appearance initially baffled physicians until a more careful review of the data determined that what they were seeing was an epidemic of psychogenic illness. In fact, some of the descriptions from 100 years ago are virtually identical, right down to the use of the phrase "concussion-like symptoms".

>>11187021

>foil or paper crumpling is not an auditory sensation

that part was the demonstrate microwaves could perform the work "when exposed to strong, but non-thermal, pulsed microwaves."

>That's exactly the point

no it wasn't. you claimed optical tweezers couldn't use microwaves. I showed you they can, proving you wrong.

>if you tried to get these effects in someone's brain you'd burn them to a crisp.

nope, again;

>non-thermal microwave damage to ultrastructure has been reported [Webber et al., 1980], and there are many reports of cellphone signals damaging the blood-brain barrier (e.g., Salford et al. 2003).
-arxiv link

also see>>11186770

moving/heating cells is not the attack vector

try again

>>11187048
>These are just reports though

no shit, that's what you were addressing before. now it's not good enough for you? you keep trying to change the goalposts, lying shit

>They could just be mundane noises such as tinnitus that were exaggerated and focused on due to mass hysteria
>These symptoms are indicative of known psychosomatic disorders

that wouldn't explain bloody noses, hearing damage, or why the effects only occurred in very specific locations. you're full of shit....probably a shill, maybe just a lying dumbass

>>11187017
>the arxiv link is relevant because it refutes your claim that nobody is developing this technology.
It does not show anyone developing this technology.

>it also demonstrates that indeed MW can be used to produce auditory sensations as well as cause biological harm
It doesn't demonstrate it, it cites already known effects. Microwave hearing is known effect but can't explain these events since it has thermal effects.

>I said "the arxiv link in the OP is by a biophysics PhD working at the federal weapons research lab at Los Alamos"
>that is true.
It's false. William Bruno is not "working at the federal weapons research lab at Los Alamos"

>that paper was published under the auspices of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, pic related.
All your pic shows is that he started writing the paper in 2011, the year before he left Los Alamos (gee I wonder why?) and either forgot or purposefully neglected to edit it in his latest revision, five years after he left, to show that he no longer worked there. The latter seems the most likely since directly below it he included his up to date place of work. Either way, it was false when you said that he is working at Los Alamos. And now you have added even more false claims by saying the paper was published under the auspices of the Los Alamos National Laboratory" when the paper has not even been published and there is no indication Los Alamos even knows about it. But we already know you have a problem with telling the truth.

>>11187059
>that part was the demonstrate microwaves could perform the work "when exposed to strong, but non-thermal, pulsed microwaves."
They are only "non-thermal" in the sense that what they are being exposed to has no water to heat up in the first place. Your arhiment is self-contradictory. You say these effects on humans can be explained by microwaves because microwaves can have non-thermal effects on non-humans.

>no it wasn't. you claimed optical tweezers couldn't use microwaves.
No I claimed the optical tweezer effect doesn't work with microwaves. This is because microwaves have thermal effects that can interfere with its operation.

>I showed you they can, proving you wrong.
You proved your own argument wrong by showing that microwaves have a thermal effect when attempting to use them as optical tweezers. You confused non-thermal effects on paper and foil with microwaves in general having non-thermal effects on biological material, a mistake only a complete novice would make. It's time for you to stop pretending like you have a clue what you're talking about, you're not fooling anyone.

>non-thermal microwave damage to ultrastructure has been reported [Webber et al., 1980]
Webber says that the observed effect is different from just heating the cells, not that the microwaves have no thermal effects. They do, since the cells have water.

>cellphone signals damaging the blood-brain barrier (e.g., Salford et al. 2003).
Due to thermal effects:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20550949/?i=6&from=/18821198/related
>Exposure to levels of radiofrequency electromagnetic fields (EMF) that increase brain temperature by more than 1 °C can reversibly increase the permeability of the BBB for macromolecules. The balance of experimental evidence does not support an effect of ‘non-thermal’ radiofrequency fields with microwave and mobile phone frequencies on BBB permeability.

>moving/heating cells is not the attack vector
You can't avoid the thermal effects.

>>11187074

it shows an advanced US govt. weapons lab considering the physics of pulsed microwave/cell phone radiation. QED

>Microwave hearing is known effect but can't explain these events since it has thermal effects.

wrong. they're not necessarily mutually exclusive, and we don't know what all the effects of the cuba attack were. there might have been some thermal effects in addition to the others. that said, Dr. Bruno raised microwave hearing as an example of what pulsed microwaves can do, not necessarily concomitant with an attack vector. you're confusing 2 different things.

>William Bruno is not "working at the federal weapons research lab at Los Alamos"

he was at the time. what I said is accurate and correct. when he wrote the paper he was working at Los Alamos, hence "by a biophysics PhD working at the federal weapons research lab at Los Alamos"

and he still is effectively working there, see the last part of that post;

>Established in 2006, the New Mexico Consortium (NMC) partners with Los Alamos National Laboratory in order to develop, implement and continually improve models that encourage and support collaborative research across its partner institutions

>and there is no indication Los Alamos even knows about it.

moron, what do you think he does for a living? research and write papers. that's his job. that was his job at Los Alamos. That's why he put "Theoretical Biology & Biophysics Los Alamos National Laboratory " at the top of the paper.

lying shit

>>11187062
>no shit, that's what you were addressing before. now it's not good enough for you?
I didn't say it's not good enough, I said these reports can be explained as mundane sounds or hallucinations. The actual recorded sound is a jungle cricket. Try not to put words in my mouth.

>that wouldn't explain bloody noses
Wrong again. You could just read the article instead of constantly embarrassing yourself. "In the late 1990s, the Kokomo Hum caused more than 100 people in Indiana to suffer headaches, light-headedness, muscle and joint pain, insomnia, fatigue, nosebleeds, and diarrhea." The hum turned out to be industrial fans on the top of a building.

>hearing damage
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/its-catching/201801/sonic-attack-not-mass-hysteria-says-top-doc-hes-wrong
>But complaints such as fatigue, headaches, memory and concentration difficulties, dizziness, and partial hearing loss are common in the psychogenic literature. There are many parallel cases in the scientific literature that are similar to what happened in Cuba including reports involving alteration in hearing function coupled with strange sensations and sounds such as a psychogenic outbreak at a nursing school in 1974, which affected two dozen students.

>the effects only occurred in very specific locations.
The effects occurred wherever they thought they were attacked, how is this an issue? Again you have no coherent argument, stop grasping at straws. You don't even understand what you're trying to argue against.

>>11187128
>They are only "non-thermal" in the sense that what they are being exposed to has no water to heat up in the first place.

no shit. that's the point. microwaves have effects independent of their ability to heat water; the same is true in humans too. it's not contradictory, they're not mutually exclusive.

>No I claimed the optical tweezer effect doesn't work with microwaves

and I already proved you wrong;

>Microwave experiments have already demonstrated that the method works. The new optical tweezer technology has now been presented in the journal Nature Photonics.

>microwave tweezer...Prather and his colleagues are now constructing a larger lens, with an array of microwave beams to smoothly move the particles longer distances.
>>11186926

>You confused non-thermal effects on paper and foil with microwaves in general having non-thermal effects on biological material

the confusion is yours. see the top of this post. once non-thermal MW effects are proven, why would you assume they're restricted to paper and foil alone? wrong assumption

>not that the microwaves have no thermal effects.
>You can't avoid the thermal effects.

the thermal effects are not the point. the claim is that the damage wasn't caused by the heating. the attack vector is bioelectric not thermal. that's the point.

the ford/fcc.gov paper investigated some of these effects thoroughly and I've posted many of them already ITT;

>On the basis of the above-cited data we have demonstrated that high-frequency energy has a special influence on the central nervous system, which by no means can be attributed to the effect of heat
>>11186753
>These phenomena cannot be explained by the action of heat...
>>Short-wave energy influences not only the vessels but also the heart rate and does so not only by acceleration but also deceleration of the heart rate - a sign that an effect opposite to that of heat is involved in this case.
>>11186742

cont.

>>11187128
>>11187152

>The influence of short-wave energy on sensory nerves as well as on motor nerves cannot be attributed to the evolution of heat in the test subject; since the dosage utilized by most of the above-mentioned authors was so small that any heat effect is impossible>>11186737

>With the application of the shortest wave lengths, where heating was at a minimum, the highest degree of acidification was found...The authors believe that this acidification in the short-wave field is related to electrical and physical processes at the cell surface and cell membrane.>>11186734

>>11187130
>it shows an advanced US govt. weapons lab considering the physics of pulsed microwave/cell phone radiation. QED
It shows one quack with a confirmed psychosomatic disorder speculating about his disorder with no actual data. The lab has nothing to do with it and this narrative you've invented illustrates your lose grip on reality. Enjoy your mental illness, I'm out.

>>11187145
>I didn't say it's not good enough

you made assumptions about the reports before. when your assumptions proved faulty, now you want to complain about the reports themselves - that they're not in a lab or something. it's disingenuous, trying to scurry away from your previous position

>I said these reports can be explained as mundane sounds or hallucinations. The actual recorded sound is a jungle cricket.

and then I pointed out the sounds and effects COMPLETELY DISAPPEARED when the invididual moved a few feet away. does that happen with actual cricket sounds?

>The hum turned out to be industrial fans on the top of a building.

Industrial fan is not psychosomatic. that's a real cause. the fan caused real vibrations that affected these people physically. resonant frequencies have physical effects. you just refuted yourself, dumbass

>>11187157
>quack

because you don't understand the science? I think Los Alamos knows better than you. They hired him and they're still working with him.

>The lab has nothing to do with it

oh really? they hired him to do this kind of research. he put their name on the paper he wrote. you're grasping at straws.

>Responding to a literal spammer

>>11187299

wrong

>>11187299
poo

>>11184403

>>11189284

>>11181753
How much fuel (and money) did it take to put a gorilla costume into orbit?

>>11189674

>>11189836

>>11189836

>>11191299

>>11189680
~$10k/pound to get something in orbit
A gorilla suit weighs 3-4lbs
Pretty sure astronauts have a weight allowance for personal items they want to bring up.