/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11160310
Fuck the crumpled can!

>>11160326
>The Virgin Brapper Tin Can
>The Chad Thermonuclear Tin Lollipop

I’m gonna dump a bunch of Lunar lander designs/concepts, which one is your favourite?

We all agree which ship's the worst though

The classic icon

The cramped steampunk competitor

>>11160346
I got nudes of that one.

The cancelled box

>>11160353
Or it might be a protoype. IDK.

The leaning tower of Luna

The teasing dominatrix

The one supposedly being built by the company with an unintentionally ironic name

It's a Bird... It's a Lander... It's Both!

The welfare queen

MoonChaser?

Please show some respect for this veteran!

The scary-looking one, unsurprisingly from Japan

The one being built by Indian tech support that had to withdraw

The tall and skinny, Methane powered one

>>11160391
How much more do you have left?

>>11160387
>spider
>>11160391
>poo in loo
>>11160394
>BRAAAAAAAP

The Josuke Higashikata of Moon landers...

>>11160396

>>11160403
This is my last one, add any ones I’ve missed

Actually, a couple more...

>In it's own game tier
>>11160360

>Godly tier
>>11160346
>>11160362

>Press F to pay respects tier
>>11160349
>>11160355
>>11160403

>Smol but well meaning tier
>>11160394
>>11160391
>>11160387
>>11160384
>>11160380
>>11160373
>>11160366

>GTFO tier
>>11160377
>>11160345

The software glitch

The privately-funded cratermaker

>>11160432
The technology transfer

The Chinese Pink Floyd tribute band

>>11160360
The “fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7wY47sRzr8

Blue Origin CEO Bob Smith on the investment in Alabama's 'Rocket City'

The incredibly original design of Relativity’s Terran 1, a 3D printed small-sat launcher with a price of $10 million

>>11160490
Is the 9 engines in the booster stage and the same engine in the upper stage really that good of a design choice or is it just popular because SpaceX uses it?

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/nasa-scientists-confirm-water-vapor-on-europa

Wtf, I hate Mars now. Should humans go to Europa instead?

>>11160525
No, we'd need to build a Martian Gateway station to enable that

>>11160564
If we're going to scale the Mars Gateway station like how the Lunar Gateway station is, then it would be just one module barely big enough for 3 people to fit in.

>>11160345
Upboat

>>11160490
I hate their logo.

>>11160511
It’s popular because it’s a cheap (and boring) way to build a launcher: instead of having to invest R&D money into building bigger engines for your first-stage, you just cluster a bunch of small ones and instead of designing a specialised second-stage engine, you just modify a first-stage engine (e.g. give it a vacuum nozzle) and use that instead. SpaceX designed the Falcon 9 this way because they had relatively little cash at the time and wanted to make the most of what they had, whilst still having enough performance to send Dragon to the ISS. Coincidentally, this design with it’s clustered engines and powerful upper-stage is also good for retro propulsive re-entry, but suffers from handicapping inefficiency when it comes to high-energy trajectories.

>>11160525
We shouldn't. Let Europa for Europans. Humans need not interact.

>>11160740
"ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyG54C48KLU

>>11160747
This is very disappointing humanphobic language from the first ancestral race. Human immigrants to any other life bearing planet in the solar system. Anyone claiming that Humans have a negative impact on the local ecosystem are clearly humanphobic bigots. Diversity is a *strength* not a weakness. Europa needs more humans landing not less. After all, it vital for economic growth in the region.

>>11160609
y tho?

>>11160780
Europa for the Europs, no-fins get out reeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEE

>>11160740
>>11160747
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g28OJD_eNw

>>11160784
The V thing just looks tacky to me.

>>11160791
Very convenient that the message they received was set up to overlay the video screen of jupiter.

>>11160511
>popular
Clustered engines aren't popular. They are quite niche in fact.

>>11160824
>Clustered engines aren't popular. They are quite niche in fact.

They were niche, now they are becoming popular due to NewSpace and retro propulsive landing.

Convince me that the best solution for colonizing Mars isn't to start with a spaceport on Phobos, a tether system based there, and a spin station dug into it.

>>11160860
What little of the plans published by the sole guy who seems to work towards Martian -colonization- do not seem to involve any such contraptions nor are there indications successful colonization of the planet will need them.

However if there is some merit do share it with a more detailed post and some examples of its benefits over the alternatives.

>>11160824
I think I can name way more multi-engine first stages than single engine ones.

>>11160860
Deimos might have more water in it, maybe? Also both moons of Mars are rubble piles so they can't be turned into spin stations, instead one should either be attached to the outside or orbit the moon.

>>11160860
I wonder if you could even land a Starship on Phobos without altering its orbital course or destroying large chunks of Phobos entirely. Phobos is only 14 miles in diameter. Theres currently some concern that SpaceX's Starship landing on Mars might create some debris issue for Earth/Moon and the Moon is 1000x larger than Phobos.

>>11160883
Phobos is fucking heavy. 10^16kg. You aren't knocking it out of orbit.

>>11160878
You wouldn't spin up Phobos like it's Ceres Station, you'd dig a hole and stick an O'Neill cylinder in the hole. Phobos would provide raw material and radiation shielding, as well as a base for the tether.

>>11160883
>NASA lands yet another robot on Mars
>Unmanned Starship sent to drop Phobos on it
Would be cool to see anyway

>>11160875
We abandoned this for the Shuttle.

>>11160961
Shuttle promised what Starship is promising, so that's understandable. But Shuttle was an SLS tier meme project compromised by bureaucracy and Congress.

>>11160961
The Saturm was so rushed it needed a major redesign to increase reliability. This could have been done way cheaper and faster than the Shuttle but as >>11160963 said the Shuttle was though to be way more cost effective.
It wasn't until the sunk cost fallacy was well and truely in play that they realized the Shuttle wasn't going to be the cheap reliable ride is was sold as.

>>11160961
>With this rocket's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a save game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed space agency congress has created.

>>11160963
The early drafts of the space shuttle were a lot more logical.
One of the early versions had the shuttle on top of a expandable first stage.
No big orange tank, no side boosters, a lot like starship actually.
Or one where the first stage had wings too and flew back to earth after doing it's job.

>>11160525
Europa's bathed in deathly radiation. It'd be hard to even get humans there because of the amount of time you spend in the radiation belts just getting there.
>>11160747
current europa lander designs call for the entire thing to self destruct after the mission is complete or if something goes wrong. Thermite charges are to be built into the frame

>>11161038
Having played with thermite I think it would be better to seterilize it on earth once inside the faring. Even Tardigrades can be killed by a large enough X-ray dose so seal it up and zap the shit out of it.

>>11161038
>current europa lander designs call for the entire thing to self destruct after the mission is complete or if something goes wrong. Thermite charges are to be built into the frame
Jesus Christ and some people expect humans will set foot on another planet ever.
What you gonna do with them, shove thermite up their ass or never send them up?

>>11161088
>expendable colonists

>>11161038
>Europa's bathed in deathly radiation

Just surround the spaceship with lead, then dig into the ice

>>11161088
The point is that if somewhere has the potential of life we are careful until we are sure.

>>11161093
Reuseable colonists while good in theory won't be viable for another 50 years.

>>11161064
It's not currently possible to entirely sterilize it. It's also better to be safe than sorry. Enough X-rays to kill all bacteria would destroy the electronics too. There are some up and coming electronics that can work at Venusian temperatures though. No life that we know can exist at those temperatures. Also it just so happens that these electronics work better in high radiation environments like jupiters radiation belts.
>>humans
you just don't send them to europa. Less than a day on the surface of europa is enough to cause lethal radiation poisoning. Revised planetary protection guidelines do permit humans on certain parts of Mars.
>>11161097
Lead is a bad choice. Jupiter's radiation is primarily charged particles. Lead's not very good at blocking those. Regardless the high mass of shielding will make it difficult to send payload.

>>11161093
>I still don't understand this whole reusable colonists meme....

>>11161093
>>11161103
I just don't understand this reusable colonists meme.

The amount of money you can save from reusing colonists isn’t enough to justify how much harder it makes it to complete the difficult settlements that usually make money in the new world. I’m sure one day reusability will be more effective, but the truth is that when you have all the challenges that come with biological science in general, it’s almost always much more effective to throw away the colonist after it’s done its job than to figure out how to make recovery part of the mission. I know of no major technology on the near term horizon that would change that.

Even if reusable colonists are possible now, but when reliability is THE number one priority (in this case the settlement takes up 2/3rds of the cost and the actual colonist only 1/3rd) it makes absolutely no sense. Like, look at these colonists (pic related). This represents some of the most advanced technologies in the manifesting destiny world. Do you honestly think that such a complicated machine can be made tough and reliable enough to be reusable? I doubt it. Best example in my opinion is condoms, sure you could reuse them but making sure that they do not suffer a drop in reliability will cost a lot of money and time.

Just because some insignificant European country made reusing colonists popular, then that doesn't mean that we will have the sci-fi future of millions of colonies per year. We'll be lucky to see more than a couple dozen per year. Dial down your expectations, don't buy into the 'reusability for colonists' meme.

>>11161207
Kek there it is

>>11161207
There are actually people who advocate for expendable human space missions

Assuming that this whole mars thing does become a reality and I have the means to buy a ticket for half a million or a million bucks or so, what skills should I be looking at getting? Science seems kind of out of the window since there is 100% going to be better and brighter scientists than me, so maybe get a few different trades under my belt? I'm already a qualified electrician which would seem to be a big need for on Mars. Maybe welding or plumbing? There will also be a need for horticulturalists I guess but I suspect most of the hydroponics will be automated and not a huge amount of work to do so not many people needed.

>>11161229
>skills
High perseverance
High conscientiousness
High pain threshold
High adaptability
High expertise knowledge in STEM(engineering/physicists/biologists)

>>11161224
Are you talking about Mars One?

>>11160900
Phobos would also provide a hard shell for the cylinder.

>>11161036
So... Dream Chaser? Yeah, I like it too. It should definitely serve as the baseline of cosmic dogfights.

>>11161246
Pretty sure I can tick off most of those, maybe I might get a stem degree from an online University that I don't have to sell a kidney for.

>>11161271
Give some examples of high perseverance you've done in your life. Waiting for 5 minutes for your coffee doesn't count.

>>11161298
Nice projection

>>11161305
?

>>11161229
Pick up and attempt to master as many trade skills/certifications as possible. Not welding OR plumbing, go for welding AND plumbing. Take a bunch of technician and mechanic courses. Get experience with remote operation of drones and other robots. Some basic coding couldn't hurt.

>>11161207
Will expendable memes be remembered in the future, or will history conveniently forget it all and everyone including the loudest expendable voices will claim they always knew reusable memes were the right way all along?

>>11161207
>manifesting destiny

>>11161521
Among politicians and bureaucrats it'll be forgotten until someone wants to make a former expendable supporter look bad, then you might get "don't listen to this guy, he though reusability was a meme".

"Solar Launch System is real. You've seen it down at Mehmet Al-Obama. We're building the steel upper stage. We have all the methane engines done, ready to be put on the test stand at Steins... I don't see any hardware for a fusion torch ship, except that he's going to attach 3 fusion drives to deuterium fuel tanks and put them together and that becomes the Millennium Heavy. It's not that easy in rocketry."

It just keeps getting taller...

>>11161775
Is that the new Blue Origin structure?

>>11161779
Yes structure(s), that’s LC-36 (New Glenn’s launch pad) with the skeleton of it’s HIF and it’s ridiculously massive water tower (you can see segments of the tank itself being attached at the top).

>>11161521
The expendable memes will have already been expended by then.

>>11161836
>>11161521
I just don't understand this reusable meme meme.

The amount of money you can save from reusing memes isn’t enough to justify how much harder it makes it to complete the difficult shitposts that actually make money in the interwebz world. I’m sure one day reusability will be more effective, but the truth is that when you have all the challenges that come with culture science in general, it’s almost always much more effective to throw away the meme after it's made it to the front page than to figure out how to make recovery part of the mission. I know of no major technology on the near term horizon that would change that.

And even if reusable memes are possible now, when reliability is THE number one priority (in this case the reputation takes up 2/3rds of the shitpost cost and the actual meme only 1/3rd) it makes absolutely no sense. Like, look at this meme (pic related). This represents some of the most dank technologies in the meme world. Do you honestly think that such a complicated machine can be made tough and reliable enough to be reusable? I doubt it. Best example in my opinion is condoms, sure you could reuse them but making sure that they do not suffer a drop in reliability will cost a lot of money and time.

Just because some Indonesian tap-dancing forum made reusing memes popular, then that doesn't mean that we will have the sci-fi future of billions of shitposts per year. We'll be lucky to see more than a couple dozen per year. Dial down your expectations, don't buy into the reusability for memes meme.

>>11161804
I wonder why the water tower is ridiculously massive...

>>11161885
What is the advantage of going so high?
I understand they will get more pressure but wouldn't it be easier to just run a couple of pumps for sound suppression?
If it's for fire fighting if they have a RUD / CATO is water really going to make much difference?

>>11161885
I’m no expert on water towers but New Glenn is pretty big itself and therefore, requires significant infrastructure to operate. Actually, the size of it’s infrastructure will make LC-36 bigger than 39A is currently when finished.

>>11161934

>>11161933
IDK how tall that water tower is, but using New Glenn's height (82m) then a water tower that high would develop almost 8 atmospheres of pressure at it's base if my math is right. That is a significant amount of pressure developed. Pumps are good, but they require a significant amount of power to operate. IIRC the pumps for the Saturn S-1C test stand needed 8 locomotive engines to operate at full pressure (and that nowadays they legally can't run them due to emission limitation laws).

>>11161960
>8 locomotive engines
Jesus, I had no idea it took that much power, I was thinking maybe 400hp.

>>11161981
It was crazy how much power was needed. I can't find a proper picture of the facility but here it is on Google maps. It's the building right next to those two big tanks with the pips heading towards it.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/NASA+Marshall+Space+Flight+Center/@34.6298626,-86.6679801,227m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88626e1b980f65e3:0xc2acc8298084807e!8m2!3d34.6473526!4d-86.6742876

>>11161775
How tall would this have to be before you could launch an orbital rocket using pressure alone?

>>11162108

>>11162167
using rockets to fly through the ice wall on the flat earth, brilliant

>>11162167
>Acknowledgments
>MH is thankful to Elon Musk and Paul Krugman for inspiration.

>>11160791
Imagine being such a retarded alien to think that humans, even at their very best would have something even resembling the capacity to obey a warning like that for more than 30 minutes, let alone any considerable time span in evolutionary timelines. You're basically asking for them to come, what a bunch of retarded aliens.

>>11162167
Kek n-ice

>>11162225
IIRC, every human attempt to land there was stopped by a monolith (or something like that). The warning is just a courtesy.

>>11162234
stopped as in die?

>>11162167
is it weird that after seing this i cant get my erection to go away no matter how many times i come?

>>11162236
It's been a while since I've read the book that explained it, but I'm pretty sure every attempt resulted in the destruction of whatever was sent.

>>11162245
The monolith labeled as "The Great Wall" would zap and destroy automated probes but simply repel crewed ships. It had enough "awareness" to discern between simple mechanisms and sapient people.

Would it be comfy or terrifying to be this close to Jupiter?

>>11162311
Jupiter has a pretty nasty radiation belt

>>11162311
Terrifying for multiple reasons:
1. The recently discovered radiation belt that starts at a couple thousand kms up and fades into the atmosphere.
2. You're ridiculously deep in Jupiter's gravity well, which means one of 2 things: you're either slingshotting through/on an extremely elliptical orbit, OR, you're on a very low circular orbit with no way to get out because you've spent all of your fucking fuel getting there in the first place.
3: If you're in the low circular orbit w/o fuel, atmospheric drag is going to slow you down enough to deorbit, and you'll do so at a velocity of about 40-45x the speed of sound equivalent on Earth. You'd have maybe 15-20s to realize you're about to die before your ship and you are vaporized by the friction.

>>11162326
Some would call that comfy.

>>11162337
That is an extremely comfy image fren, saved.

Is this the next level of Aerospace?

>>11162410
If you’re living on mars, you want rocket ships that are able to be repaired and maintained with simple hand tools and not much sophisticated expertise.

By building them as such in the first place, you ensure that that’s the case

>>11160310
Earth is flat

>>11162410
Brute-force to orbit, balls to the wall, take no prisoners ask no mercy. SpaceX.

>>11162420
that's such a bullshit excuse, if there was a material that was half a cent cheaper but exploded with the force of two hundred billion tot he power of thirt quintillon supernovas per second if it gets within 100.000km of mars then they would have gone with it and edit your brain so that you make a dumb excuse to justify it

>He is fishing for (you)s again

>>11162431
Every general has one.

spacecraft engineer, ama, I'll be awake for another few minutes

>>11162448
Any spacecraft in particular anon?

>>11162452
yeah I don't wanna give out info that could reveal myself though
I will say smallsats

>>11162424
>the force of two hundred billion tot he power of thirt quintillon supernovas
how much would that be

>>11160345

>accidentally revealed corruption

What?

>>11162456
Fair enough, don't wanna out ya anon. Is the question "science or telecom?" vague enough, or too specific? Either kind of project is interesting.

>>11162466

>>11162311
That's make your peace with god territory

If you're that deep in Jupiter's gravity well you ain't getting back out.

>>11162518
>If you're that deep in Jupiter's gravity well you ain't getting back out.
brainlet

>>11162537
>I have a spacecraft with several hundred thousand dV

>>11160310

What is the fictional spacecraft in the pic? How does it theoretically work? Is it from a particular work of fiction?

>>11162567

Disregard that, it's all in the file name + google. I like cocks

>>11162560
>>you're slingshotting through/on an extremely elliptical orbit

>>11162627
If you are that close to Jupiter's cloud tops the atmospheric drag is going to kill your elliptical orbit.

>>11162715
At that proximity, the radiation has already killed every trace of organic life and obliterated the electronics with ionizing radiation.

Astronomers already huttburt over Starlink's first satellites

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanocallaghan/2019/11/18/this-is-not-coolastronomers-despair-as-spacex-starlink-train-ruins-observation-of-nearby-galaxies/#dad01c66538b

>>11162738
>angry soiman yells at star

>>11162738
I'm deeply worried and stressed over the negative environmental and cultural impacts such irresponsible pollution of the sky will cause.

It is time the world governments step in and strictly regulate pollution of the precious world treasure that is our sky before the worst happens and we lose it forever.

Let us not rob future generations from their right to see clean skies and stars.

Stop madness and greed now.

>>11162738
Kill all "astronomers"

>>11162410
That Russian guy from Armageddon had the right means all along.

>>11162737
Ironically in the elliptical orbit scenario you could be going over the poles like Juno, and depending on the speed you might not die if you had some good shielding.

It would still be very, very difficult to fly that low in Jupiter's atmosphere without the drag fucking your orbit and trapping you.

>>11162410
If it works....

>>11162424
You know how cheap these things are being built right? It only needs to last a couple of tests so why bother making it nice when it only needs to work.

>>11161875
>This just in: rope ladder going 20 times the speed of sound smashes into Manhattan highrise, kills 10,000 office workers

>>11162410
>Mexican intellectuals

>>11162410
Hammer fix everything

>>11162876
*Puerto Rican intellectuals

This is the Florida trash can (Mk2)

>>11161775
New Glenn was just a red herring, he‘s just gonna build a space elevator.

>>11162410
The russians hammered in a fucking gyroscope backwards.

It might actually be current level of aerospace if you take the arcane veil off and looked under the pretty propaganda.

And then there's history with the countless great achievements, but those are old stories about stupid old people it's all different nowadays we are smart.

>>11162873
sounds based

>>11162410
>>11162876
>>11162912

The CHAD underpaid Russian labourers
Vs
Musk’s VIRGIN Puerto Rican intellectuals

>>11161229
The real problem with mars colonists is that people willing to go aren't the ones suited for it.

>>11162966
No. There's always a portion of population that fits the need.

There's a population that wants to go on mars.
There's a population rich enough to pay for it.
There's a population fit enough to thrive on mars.

And a much smaller population that meets all these criterias.

>>11162311
Unless your ship possessed a fusion torch drive or stardrive, this kind of view would be an almost certain indicator of rapidly approaching death.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F17oT7PYv_0

Few hold outs still for homes in boca chica. 12 have sold their property already. So ~4 left I think.

>>11162970
the amount that fit all those criteria is very low. Like maybe a dozen people.

I think you also need to be out of your mind a bit, because living on mars would be super shit. Might as well colonise the antarctic first.

>>11162466
>>11162480
>accidentally

>>11162480
we know who he's talking about

>>11163021
800 people climb Everest each year. It costs ~$50K to climb and there's ~7% chance of death. And there's tons more mountains people climb yearly. In the US alone, there's ~6 million people climbing outdoors each year.

Antarctic has ~200-1000 people living there depending on season. Arctic has ~4M living there permanently.

These are just small portions of dangerous/expensive activities human do.

>>11163048
none of those are colonists though.

I'm sure one Starships gets going plenty of people would pay to go on a *trip* to mars and back. Not so much going to live there.

and I'm not counting any shitty islands are particularly habitable parts of the antarctic. I mean the shitty icey parts.

>>11163055
>none of those are colonists though.
So if we haven't gone to Mars/Moon now, we'll never get there? HUH?

>>11163059
People won't want to be mars colonists for a long LONG time.

>>11163065
If there's no infrastructure. Once you build a city on mars, what's the difference?

>>11163071
What?

>>11163072
Isn't your argument that people don't stay on top of Mount Everest for year because its cold/hard/etc? This is a problem for everything new we ever did. People moving to the US didn't have the luxury of housing/comfort/food. So many died or moved back. Once US is built up, everyone wants to move here because of all of our luxuries.

>>11162999
Jesus Christ, these fucking boomers. 3x the money for a property that was worth next to nothing before SpaceX moved into the area and greatly increased their original property value, but it's still not enough. They want to be compensated for their intangible feelings regarding the loss of their half abandon vacation properties yet have zero consideration for the whole Brownsville area that needs this to happen, as well as the wishes of millions of people around the world.

>>11163078
>Isn't your argument that people don't stay on top of Mount Everest for year because its cold/hard/etc?
No the point is there was nothing at the top of mount everest that made it worth putting up with all those things to live there.

US colonists had a rough time when they landed, but there were enormous resources waiting to be claimed by basically anyone willing to be a colonist. You could get free fertile land just by being willing to live on it. There's nothing on mars like that, and it's about 1,000,000 times harder to live there than on pre-colonised north america.

>everyone wants to move here because of all of our luxuries.
Why is the US more wealthy than any other country? Because it is extremely rich in natural resources for one. Other countries like most of europe and east asia look on with envy with all the shit the US has to make a dime off of. There's basically nothing to make money off of on mars.

>>11163080
>Why won't they give their house to Elon for whatever price he feels like paying. REEEEEEE

>>11163093
>No the point is there was nothing at the top of mount everest that made it worth putting up with all those things to live there.
There's prestige/thrill/etc to get there. But after that, you can get a helicopter ride down to base in 10 minutes. So a stronger incentive lies just 10 minutes away.

Mars is a different planet all together. So you can't just go back to earth in 10 minutes. On mars, you are forced to live there.

>US colonists had a rough time when they landed, but there were enormous resources waiting to be claimed by basically anyone willing to be a colonist. You could get free fertile land just by being willing to live on it.
"Rough time" is a nice way of undermining the effort needed to start and maintain a colony. I had a "rough" time yesterday trying to find a new porn to masturbate to. The unknown land full of hostile people, hostile disease, and crops that don't grow, seasons that you don't know about, on top of scarce resource which forced the colony to be dependent on mainland, etc.

If you're unable to understand what early US was like, then you're unable to understand what Mars will be like. Its a lack of imagination for one and the inability to scope out 10-20-50-100 years in advance.

Mars isn't like going to disneyland, it will mainly be like military mission where you're forced to survive/thrive.

>>11163128
>On mars, you are forced to live there.
Err. not there's basically a free ride back to earth by flying back on the same rocket that took you there. It's also crazy expensive to live there, there's no way to support yourself there, you'd absolutely have to have people on earth paying for you to stay there for some reason.

pre-colonised america was 1,000,000 times more comfy to live in than fucking mars.

>>11163098
Elon Musk is not personally involved beyond going to one of their meetings. It's not even whatever price SpaceX feels like paying, it's a more than fair price. Their value is already a few times what it was ten years ago when half the homes in Boca Chica where abandoned and falling apart, then they're getting three times that amount on top of it. The residents are making out like bandits in the night, yet that isn't enough for a few of the more greedy ones.

Half of the holdouts have never even lived there and they hired people to fix up their property knowing that they would get three times the amount of their investment later on. It has nothing to do with people who want to stay in their homes, they already mentioned their intention to sell but want an absurd value for it.

>>11163158
>it's a more than fair price
How do you know? What is the price being offered?

I know sure as fuck I wouldn't hand over my family home for whatever the current market price happens to be to some corporation that *demands* I sell it to them. It has more value to me than that. SpaceX should have bought out the village before building the launch site. The fact that they didn't means residents can quite rightly ask for whatever they want. This is really really obvious from a business point of view. It's like building a giant shopping mall, and after construction is finished deciding to then buy out the house who's blocking the main road that you need for shoppers to get in. That's stupid, because the house owner knows you *have* to buy or you'll lose tens of millions of dollars, where if the house was bought before the shopping centre was built you could legitimately threaten to walk away from the deal and build someplace else instead.

I do love SpaceX, but they fucked this one up. Now they are depending on the home owners to sell for a reasonable price, which they absolutely don't have to.

>>11163169
>Now they are depending on the home owners to sell for a reasonable price, which they absolutely don't have to.
Ofcourse. No one has to sell anything to anyone. But reasonable selling price is what most people feel is fair. If people aren't reasonable with their demands, then SpaceX will be forced to ask the county/city/state for legal framework to move forward. That legal framework was already established to lure in SpaceX incase they ever need to use this option.

>>11163189
And what evidence if there that the price being asked isn't reasonable?

What case will SpaceX have under any "legal framework"?

>>11163169
>How do you know? What is the price being offered?
It is three times their appraised value. SpaceX has no intention of fucking someone over just to save a few hundred thousand. This delay is costing them much more money than the value of the homes, they just don't want to be extorted so they have to hold every owner to the same amount, otherwise they just create more holdouts.
>I know sure as fuck I wouldn't hand over my family home for whatever the current market price
There are no real families in Boca Chica, no ancestral homes. Just look at it on Google Maps before creating some construct to defend the people there. It's one of the worst areas in the state of Texas. High poverty, very old population, and a suburb that would fit well in Detroit. Why would anyone move to a rural area just to live on a 40x 40 lot?
>which they absolutely don't have to.
Yes, they do. They're going to be forced to sell using eminent domain, which exists for situations exactly like this to prevent a few people extorting business for profit and denying the wishes of millions of people who want to see a project like this happen. Very few cases are people who just want to stay in their homes and would deny any offer. The vast majority of them are failed negotiations to maximum profit, sunken cost fallacy, and a persecution complex that arises from it.

>>11163192
3X the appraised value is more than reasonable. If these people want few million dollars, then that's not reasonable. One of the interviewee said they want SpaceX to take care of their lives. So they want SpaceX to pay probably >1M for a house worth $20-50K that barely has road access and no utilities due to the village destroyed by natural disaster a while back.

>legal framework
Imminent domain via third party non-profit organization. SpaceX doesn't have the power, but the organization does. Organization was created for SpaceX by the local government.

>>11163202
>It is three times their appraised value
>It's one of the worst areas in the state of Texas. High poverty, very old population, and a suburb that would fit well in Detroit.
Sounds like x3 the value would actually not be very much at all. You don't actually have the figures?

>They're going to be forced to sell using eminent domain
I understood that shit if for stuff like highways and shit. Not random corporations who just really really want to buy your house so they can make lots of money launching rockets nearby.

>>11163210
man I don't know how you think they cleared away the families living downrange of Cape Canaveral before the moon program but, they used eminent domain

>>11163210
Imminent domain is for projects with public interest. That means highways, gas, oil, military, space, trains, etc. Whatever has greater public service, it will fall under imminent domain.

>>11163215
>they used eminent domain
Because that was the fucking moon program, which was considered national strategic importance. Not some private company who was trying to make a few bucks for themselves.

>>11163217
Well if they think it would be cheaper going for imminent domain then i guess they should do that.

>>11163223
The point of imminent domain isn't to use imminent domain at first chance. Its a last resort tool when people are unreasonable. At that point, the property owners will be forced to sell at market value, which is 1/3 of what SpaceX offers. Right now, its a negotiation between the parties involved before government arbitration takes over and forces imminent domain.

https://twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1197173732034396160

>Last week, @SpaceX
completed a series of static fire engine tests of the #CrewDragon spacecraft.

The tests will help validate the launch escape system for the in-flight abort demonstration planned as part of @NASA
's Commercial Crew Program.

>>11163080
>four left
>at least one of those four is giving us cool pictures
>muh fucking boomers
ok zoomer

>>11162567
>>11162569
I'm gonna answer that anyways.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/slowerlight.php#enzmann

It's the Enzmann Starship. A concept for an interstellar vehicle that uses pulsed magnetic confined fusion engines (numbering from 8 to 24 depending on the version). The bubble on top is a one giant tank of deuterium that's about 1,000 feet in diameter. With this it can reach a cruising speed of up to 0.3c (again depending on the variant).

Here's a picture of what I think is it propulsively landing. Which is a terrifying concept.

>>11163227
Well in that case the homeowners better sell. but I wouldn't fault them for trying to make SpaceX pay a premium. I also gather there's disagreement on the market value of the property, so I'm sure that will be disputed in court too.

>>11163210
>Sounds like x3 the value would actually not be very much at all. You don't actually have the figures?
It's more than enough to buy a home in another unincorporated community or even an area that isn't a complete shithole. As part of the package, SpaceX showed them what they could buy elsewhere with the money they would receive. Boca Chica doesn't exist in some property vacuum where it's so cheap that no one can afford to live elsewhere. Prices were already better than they should have been because of SpaceX moving in.
>I understood that shit if for stuff like highways and shit.
Are you serious? This is far more important than a highway. It helps ensure that America is leading the next space race and will remain the leader in spaceflight. You can lose a few highways, no one cares. You cannot lose a spaceport. They can only exist in limited areas unless you want to see test rockets flying over people. This is one of the best cases for eminent domain you could ever make. The advantages greatly outweigh upsetting four full time residents and a few other people trying to pull a con.
>>11163232
That means they're majority boomer. You're going to get photos of Starship regardless of if that person lives there.

Only four people live there full time.

>>11163217
>Imminent domain is for projects with public interest.

SpaceX having a launch site in Texas is in public interest.

https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-boca-chica-texas-launch-site-spaceport-corporation-eminent-domain-2019-9

>SpaceX wants to buy a small Texas neighborhood. It can't force residents to move, but a nonprofit that supports the company wields that power.

>>11163246
>It's more than enough to buy a home in another unincorporated community or even an area that isn't a complete shithole.
sure, but maybe far away from your relatives. Or with higher crime, or far from amenities you depended on. I don't know how it is in the US, but where i am you pay capital gains tax if you sell a property for more than you bought it for and that can be significant at times. So there's that too.

>Are you serious? This is far more important than a highway.
Might as well say anything commercial can claim eminent domain.
>Of course you should sell your house to Walmart to they can expand their superstore. America needs lower prices for groceries! What could be more important!

>>11163254
Yes. If the community deems Walmart necessary to bring life back to the community eminent domain will be used by the city to force people to sell their property if they refuse to negotiate in reasonable/timely manner. It's been done in the past. It's all about greater public good.

>>11163254
>sure, but maybe far away from your relatives. Or with higher crime, or far from amenities you depended on.
Have you looked at the location? It would be hard to find a more isolated area in mainland US. There are zero amenities, they don't even have water service. Crime is also terrible and a few residents have surrounded themselves with a full barbwire fence and multiple security cameras. The only thing it has going is that it's near a beach, but that's common for that area of Texas.
>Might as well say anything commercial can claim eminent domain.
That's already the case, but it isn't a fair comparison because SpaceX is government contractor that has significantly reduced cost to the taxpayer by reducing the price of sending things to orbit, like military satellites and communication networks. It's in everyone's best interest for this project to go ahead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

>>11163260
>the greater good

>>11163260
>>11163263
neat.

Well anyways. I think it's fair for the property owners to try and get what they can. And if SpaceX think they can pay less via eminent domain, then they should go for that.

>>11163274
> think it's fair for the property owners to try and get what they can.
How far would you go with that? Is it still fair for them to want millions of dollars for a tiny vacant lot that was worth 20k ten year ago? They're relying on people like you who won't look into the issue and just assume that SpaceX is bullying them instead of offering them a more than fair amount that is in the best interest of literally everyone. Eminent domain is the last thing SpaceX wants to do because of all the negative media attention they would get. This issue already received too much attention, only it was because of a few greedy boomers intent on fucking us for maximum profit. They should be lucky the rest of Texas doesn't eat them alive.

>>11163263
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London
>Local government forces people to sell their homes so they can give to a private corporation for "economic developement"
>Said corporation does nothing with the land. Still vacant to this day.
>Cost city $78 million
wtf i love imminent domain now!

Stupid question: instead of making a space elevator, why not build a really big structure with a launch complex on top?

>>11163291
>Is it still fair for them to want millions of dollars for a tiny vacant lot that was worth 20k ten year ago?
Of course. It's their property. They can ask for a trillion dollars if they like. They can flat out say they don't want to sell for any reason. If spacex want to go for imminent domain they can do that.

>greedy boomers intent on fucking us for maximum profit.
SpaceX are always pushing for low wages in all their staffers, and despite achieving reusability, are not passing on those massive savings to clients. Which I think is completely fine, they should charge what the market is willing to pay and pay the lowest wages for the best staff they can get to work for them. Encourage competition. I wouldn't call SpaceX greedy. SpaceX could have offered to buy all the houses before the decided on the site, and if they think imminent domain is cheaper they should just pursue it right now. It's stupid for a homeowner to accept a lower price they could otherwise get because they feel bad for the billion dollar corporation.

>>11163300
too expensive to be worth it.

>>11163300
>>11163309

I’m pretty sure Jeff is already doing that:

>>11161775

>>11163294
No corporation wants to be involved with such a reputation. If SpaceX can't get land, they'll move out to another area. They haven't completed invested in the area just yet so the cost to move out is minimal to SpaceX but it will cost the city in lot of potential revenue and prestige. It's a loss loss scenario for the city if SpaceX leaves.

>>11163294
I never stated that was a good example of its use, only that eminent domain for commercial projects is a real thing. They should weigh the public interest compared to the property owners rights. Millions of people will not allow you to cuck them because you don't want to sell your abandoned vacation home for much more than it's worth.
>>11163306
The argument isn't over if they have the right to ask SpaceX for a bunch of money, it's if it's reasonable to do so and basically extort them far beyond a reasonable price. They would never need to use eminent domain in a rational world. It's pure greed and little else.
>SpaceX are always pushing for low wages in all their staffers, and despite achieving reusability, are not passing on those massive savings to clients.
That not true. SpaceX appears to have an average wage higher than Boeing and many similar companies and they have greatly reduced the cost for commercial launches. They don't have to pass all the savings onto the customer, otherwise it wouldn't be a business and they would have no ability to fund things like Starship. That isn't greed, it's common sense and it shouldn't be compared to the other situation.
>paceX could have offered to buy all the houses before the decided on the site
Over the years they have sent many offers out. They didn't do it all at the start because that isn't how development works and they didn't know exactly what the site would become. Even then the same situation would likely happen.

>>11163300
Might as well just build it on a mountain. Bonus: less neighbors to use eminent domain on!

>>11160310

>We will never build Enzmann interstellar ships

What happened to the human ambition for space?

>>11163327
>it's if it's reasonable to do so and basically extort them far beyond a reasonable price
LOL. It's SpaceX who is demanding the property. It's like someone buying your neighbor's house and building a supermarket, and then they ask can they buy yours so they can build a car park. You say "Well I don't really want to move, but if you pay me x5 the property price I'll think about it" and then supermarket owner says "Why are you extorting me :(!!!?"

Lets suppose SpaceX hasn't invented anything in Boca Chica yet and they were still considering other sites. Let's say they asked what price the homeowners would sell for and they offered the same price as they are offering now. Would you still call that "extortion"? Or just offering a price SpaceX would be unlikely to take?

SpaceX put themselves in this position by investing heavily in Boca Chica with operations that would depend on owning those houses, before they secured them. Therefor handing lots of leverage to those homeowners in the negotiations. Bad for SpaceX, good for the home owners. But maybe SpaceX did this because they know they can buy via eminent domain anyways for a reasonable price and are just seeing can they get the properly for even less money first.

Video of Dragon 2 static fire
https://mobile.twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1197173732034396160

>>11163340
General public understands extortion. During hurricane and natural disasters people will overcharge for goods and services. Naturally there's a threshold of fairness for how much you can overcharge before pushback. It's the same here. No one wants to be taken advantage of.

>>11163346
Sure. Glad to see the homeowners looking to get reasonable compensation.

>>11163346
Also just because SpaceX is rich doesn't mean the don't value money. The ones who value money the money most is usually the rich companies. That's especially true for SpaceX who wants to extract the most value out of money. And lowers the price of space travel for everyone

>>11163338
Massive budget cuts and the political reality of space agencies killed ambition in spaceflight. Why bother to try to builld a space base when sending a small satellite costs tens or even a hundred million dollars with no motivation in the launch market to cut costs? Why propose a decade or multi decade long mission when most don't even get 4 years? Why try to be ambitious and advanced when you have a budget that barely covers idle operating costs?

Most of these issues are due to the facts that spaceflight is tied to governments and that governments aren't really interested in space right now. Thankfully things seem to slowly be changing with the introduction of viable private space organizations that are not only doing things more cheaply but are also demonstrating that the old ways are heavily flawed. It'll not be as roaring as the Space Race, but the space revolution is coming.

>>11163340
>It's like someone buying your neighbor's house and building a supermarket, and then they ask can they buy yours so they can build a car park
No, it's not. It's like a handful of people trying to stop a project of national interest because they want millions for their shitty abandoned vacation home, that's the reality of the situation, not your strawman argument which you're forced to use. That wasn't even your original argument in which implied it was such a great place to live despite you having no idea because you didn't do basic research before jumping to defend the property owners against a corporation you believe is corrupt.
>Or just offering a price SpaceX would be unlikely to take?
It's the process of trying to get far beyond what it's worth to you and using the media to draw attention to your invented plight as you try to damage their reputation until they pay you that is the de facto extortion, but not in a legal sense.
>SpaceX put themselves in this position by investing heavily in Boca Chica with operations that would depend on owning those houses, before they secured them.
SpaceX doesn't need them to leave. They can shut down the road constantly and just warn them in advance, but it isn't ideal for anyone, which is why they're trying to buy the people out of good faith. Their operation isn't dependent on owning the properties around it.
> But maybe SpaceX did this because they know they can buy via eminent domain anyways for a reasonable price and are just seeing can they get the properly for even less money first.
That is incorrect. You don't get three times the value with eminent domain, you just get the original value. The owners will lose money if the development organization uses it.

>>11163366
>It's like a handful of people trying to stop a project of national interest because they want millions for their shitty abandoned vacation home
But that supermarket is bringing economic development to your neighbourhood! Why are you extorting them :(.

>That is incorrect. You don't get three times the value with eminent domain, you just get the original value.
So SpaceX are just being nice guys. How nice of them!

>>11163371
A single supermarket isn't of national importance. Stop using a terrible analogy to support your failed argument, it's so petty. You're not even trying to refute anything at this point, just being catty and seemingly upset for no real reason.
>So SpaceX are just being nice guys. How nice of them!
Yes, that is rather nice of them because they could have bought all the property for a fraction of the price and forcibly evicted them. They're not psychopaths, they're businessmen dealing with wretched boomers acting irrationally.

>>11163384
>A single supermarket isn't of national importance
Cheap and convenient places to buy food is of national importance! As is a strong economy! Exactly what imminent domain is for you know.

>they're businessmen dealing with wretched boomers acting irrationally.
Elon is a boomer

>>11162912
>The russians hammered in a fucking gyroscope backwards.
americans mixed up metric with imperial units

>>11163387
>Cheap and convenient places to buy food is of national importance! As is a strong economy! Exactly what imminent domain is for you know.
No, it's not. You having a cheap local place to buy food doesn't help anyone outside the area. SpaceX development does. It's a false equivalence you keep using because you're butthurt and beginning to meltdown.
>Elon is a boomer
Why are you so hung up on use of the word Boomer? It implies a certain attitude they have. That doesn't mean every Boomer is the same.
>What do you mean SpaceX won't give me two million dollars for a dilapidated house that was worth 5k ten years ago? I was going to retire the and there's a beach! You cannot put a price on a beach, man, but give me two million and I'll sell.

>>11163338
There's Breakthrough Starshot and the 100 Year Starship projects. Used to be that things like starships weren't taken all that seriously, that has changed. Even the Department of Defense is putting down money for 100 Year Starship. We've gone from people just writing up their crazy idea in a sci-fi magazine(Enzmann literally did this) to the US government actually funding people to study interstellar travel and propulsion technologies.

>>11163387
>Elon is a boomer
He is literally isn't one, seeing as he is not 54-72 years old.

>>11163401
Amazing how little this has to do with the comment its replying to.

>>11163415
Theres only room for one based AMERICAN boomer in spaceflight.

>>11163411
Why would the department of defence pay for that shit?

>>11163535
To fight space communism among the stars.

meanwhile, a twitterer is complaining about crew dragon design

>>11163553
Which one?

>>11163553
So? That's all twitterfaggots do.

>>11163560
Yes but some are worse than others.

>>11163566
Why should I care what this random retard has to say?

>>11163566
Oh God. That hurt to read.

>>11163553
>twatter
You have to go back.

>>11163571
You don't have to care. It's just funny to read how wrong he is. Plus, his views aren't unique to him, others share the same opinions.

>>11163593
Here's another to drop your IQ by a couple of points.

>>11163608
Thunderfoot is genuinely smart. But he has to be one of the dumbest smart people I can think of.

>>11163566
>>11163608
What drives these people? Major case of self-importance and the need to prove they are better than "fraudster" Elon?

>>11163614
Probably because Elons personality can be quite abrasive to some people. That and along with him funding other projects with some failing (or just struggling like with Tesla), its easy for someone to believe that everything Elon is associated with is bad somehow.

You also can't forget about good ol' contrarianism. SpaceX is popular, therefore it is bad.

>>11163614
For thunderfoot, probably. He has an enormous ego. He's genuinely obsessed with BTFO'ing people. He has something like 100 videos on "why people laugh at creationists" that are all like 20 minutes long where he just rants about why creationists are dumb. I'm a cold hard atheist, but I can't bear to watch more than 5 minutes of any of those. He seems just to love find stupid shit that is easy to debunk and go on a rant about 10x longer than necessary.

Elon often over promises shit, or has over optimistic expectations of his companies. Because of that thundercuck has flagged everything he does as "stupid" i guess.

He does do genuinely good science videos though. He's actually a pretty qualified scientists and works in some UK university I think.

>>11163338
Golden ages are a fleeting thing they better be used well and ours wasn't. Dark ages are the norm.

>>11163625
>He does do genuinely good science videos though
Yeah, I thought his video explaining the launch profile of the Saturn V was nice.

>>11163627
>dark ages
>golden ages
This is some pseud level history right here

>>11163629
I suspect he's something of a troubled genius of sorts. When he's not being crazy, he can demonstrate impressive understanding of demanding scientific concepts and can explain them in a compelling way. I enjoy some of he "kickstart project BUSTED" videos because he often deep dives in the why the product is thermodynamically impossible, which is interesting. But at the same time it's like there's something wrong with his brain where he'll rant extensively about topic he knows toe-cringingly little about, as if he thinks everyone is stupid but him in almost all topics.

I recall lately he made a really skeptical video about this drone NASA were planning to deploy on mars (or was it europa or something)? And he called out bullshit because the vacuum chamber testing involved the drone being suspended by a wire, as if that was evidence the drone couldn't really fly. Really obviously missing the point that the wire was to simulate mariatian or europan gravity, or whatever. It's just weird how he can fluctuate between being extremely intelligent to extremely stupid without even seeming to notice.

>>11163648
Yeah, no period of history was better than any other. Ages are all equal! What are you some kind of timeist?

>>11163625
Finding stupid things to needlessly get angry over is a hobby many people don't even realize they're in. This includes people following retards on twitter to laugh at them.

>>11163653
Segregating history into "good" and "bad" is a toxic line of thought.

>>11163670
lol. Why? That's sounds like a ridiculous position to have.

>>11163653
"dark ages" is a buzzword tier term that is regarded as outdated in modern historical study. The medieval dark ages for example is now regarded as an outdated historical concept that came out of a biased and uninformed understanding of that period.

>>11163676
Goddamn learn some history outside of public school for fuck's sake.

>>11163697
>Don't ask questions. Just accept what I say is true while I berate for for daring to question me.
Ah I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up.

>>11163700
That's definitely what "learn more history means", it means "don't learn more history". Retard. Just start looking up "dark ages" and go from there, you'll learn something if you're not a complete moron.

>>11163710
>I can't explain why I'm right. Just read about it and you'll probably agree with me.
Wow. Thanks m8.

>>11163718
see
>>11163687
Your question was already answered by someone else before you started making a fool of yourself at me. Now fuck off.

>>11163724
>The term "dark ages" was used unfairly before we understood the middle ages better. Therefor all periods of history are equally good.
Wow. I'm so embarrassed now. I guess I better fuck off.

>mfw see the last 20 posts

My dark ages post wasn't literally about the so called dark ages and all the ideology surrounding the term, but rather the peaks of power and comparatively longer valleys experienced by empires and their implications on achievements and their very capability of achievements.

tldr;
stagnation is bad

>>11163357
>Massive budget cuts and the political reality of space agencies killed ambition in spaceflight.

NASA budget is fully half of what it was during Apollo, adjusted for inflation, and sustainned for decades instead of a few years. SpaceX budget is a mere small fraction of this still.

This notion that lack of funding is responsible is a myth. Gross inefficiency and corruption is closer to the truth.

oh no
>>>/g/73655448

>>11163799
Bunch of dumb non-astronomers crying about bullshit because ELON BAD.

was it four people or four houses with people left in Boca Chica?
There's three I know of:
1. The Pointers. They're the boomers in that video upthread, also the wife goes by BocaChicaMaria on facebook and posts trash photos and they're literally just boomers. They're going to get eminent domain dropped on them.
2. BocaChicaGal: camera autist who's basking in the attention that taking pictures of Starship every day and posting them on NSF and twitter gets her. I don't know what it's going to take to get her to move.
3. Nomadd: a shitty little manlet goblin aerospace nerd who moved to Boca Chica to retire after he heard that SpaceX were doing a thing and went to check them out and fell in love with the place. Pic related. He's probably going to try to angle his way into a job or something at SpaceX that lets him continue to live in the shadow of Starship.

>>11163775
interesting

>>11163775
>This notion that lack of funding is responsible is a myth. Gross inefficiency and corruption is closer to the truth.
Fair enough. But also the shift in focus from pushing the boundaries for spaceflight to just sustaining what was already in place would describe what happened after the space race too.

>>11163813
four properties?

>>11163813
Elon looks like he confused that this guy is still alive but trying to look cool about it.
>I just don't understand.. I saw him drink out "complimentary cocktail".. We put enough blood thinner in there to kill a horse...

>>11163799
They're acting like Elon is going to cover the night sky with a blanket and that somehow people not being able to see the stars will be the death of civilization.

>>11163799
No article actually reference. I'm sure because it references the fact that there's lots of satellites in LEO and this shit happens all the time anyways.

>>11163831
Krikkit intensifies

>>11163651
if it was in a vacuum chamber that was probably the martian one

>>11163799
>The night sky has inspired generations since time immemorial and this is going to turn it into a billboard. I'm crying.
WTF? Sure, seeing the stars is cool and all, but not seeing them isn't bad. Also, the sats can't be seen by the human eye. Also also, Elon isn't going to do space billboards, those have nothing to do with Starlink.

>>11163813
Not sure, but the video has more than 12 people have already sold their houses, so x-12 is what's left, where x = total property in boca chica.

>>11163830
old men like Nomadd are pretty much indestructible, I hung out with one in high school, he spent his time haunting the theatre with a huge wad of keys and then mentored the FIRST robotics club after school.

>>11163848
Pretty alarmist. There's lots of satellites you can see in the early evening. I often try ISS stopping, and it's frustrating to me that there's a short window where the sky is dark but the LEO objects are still in direct sunlight. If you don't want to see satellites, just wait a couple more hours after sundown.

>>11163816
Not him but here's the catch: NASA doesn't decide what to spend it on. Lobbyists and politicians do. And they've unanimously decided to spend it on space *related* things after Apollo.

So in a way yes, money aren't enough. They are poured inside a bucket with a hole in it - either deal with the fact that all you'll get is some moisture, or go full power on the hose and overwhelm the (adaptive) hole for a while.

Double the budget and you'll get more results. Is that a good strategy though?

https://media.thinknum.com/articles/spacex-job-openings-at-their-highest-level-yet/

>>11163876
This means things are either going very good or very bad.

>>11163848
The satellites can totally be seen by the human eye when they're still in the deployment/checkout orbit, and also in sunlight during twilight. Once they've raised their orbits up to operational altitude then they're invisible to the human eye, I think.

>>11163855
at high latitudes during summer, like in Chile, the viewing hours can be nonexistent if you cut them down any more
this is the fault of the guys who built the telescope, they're just going to need to learn how to deal or launch the whole thing into orbit

>>11163887
It's a bit strange since all satellites are tracked, so they should know exactly when a satellite is passing their viewport. You would expect they'd disable the exposure when a known satellite is passing..

>>11163880
good.

Elon or Shotwell said recently that it's sort of a problem at SpaceX, in regards to having too many fantastic employees. They gobble up the best of the best. Would provide the quote but I can't find it atm

>>11163895
I heard spaceX is has a lot of people passing through, some of them only even trying to get in because they think it will look good on their resume when they aply for the better paying "old space" company's.

>>11163775
Big fat budget for EU space program when?

>>11163929
Yeah but SpaceX always gets the best pick. They get like half million engineers applying per year. And there are only about 1.6m engineers total in the US market. They also get the best picks as nearly half of the graduating engineers want to work for SpaceX or Tesla.

>>11163813
Those people are awful. Some of them are trying to use it as a business opportunity by filming Starship all the time and trying to drive traffic to their various accounts. They are now trying to base their property value on living besides the SpaceX port, it's crazy.

>>11164033
Guys, i'm done, i rather watch this planet become a tombe world for humanity then see this poor old lady cry because her garden will be taken away by poor old musk.
Fuck the stars
Fuck space exploration
Fuck saving earth by moving all earthbased production to space.

You nerds made some nanna cry, bastards.

>>11164033
>Some of them are trying to use it as a business opportunity by filming Starship all the time and trying to drive traffic to their various accounts. They are now trying to base their property value on living besides the SpaceX port.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of that.

>>11164033
yeah Maria is a shithead, but Nomadd is cool
BocaChicaGal (Mary) is a retard too but I don't hate her.

Hullo has a new video and once again it's fucking wild
https://youtu.be/Qi7wtXcaFws

>>11164043
>There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of that.
There is absolutely something wrong with that when you're negotiating the value of your property and simultaneously arguing that SpaceX would be depriving you of the enjoyment of witnessing it which you must be compensated for. It's fucking absurd that you think people should be able to move beside a company they love and then state that their property value is intangibly high because of it. I have more sympathy for those who were already living there, but even that is wearing thin.

>SpaceX is trying to take away my business of filming their private property! I planted a fruit tree here, is Elon Musk going to personally take care of them? Oy vey, it's like another holocaust!

>>11164084
>There is absolutely something wrong with that when you're negotiating the value of your property and simultaneously arguing that SpaceX would be depriving you of the enjoyment of witnessing it which you must be compensated for.
Absolutely not. Obviously SpaceX should be paying at least the market price for their property if they want to buy it off of them. The market price will very very obviously be affected by the fact that they are right next to the Space port. Imagine the kind of rent they could get if SpaceX had no interest in buying, and they rented out the house to wealthy space nerds? That will obviously factor in the the market value of the house.

STARSHIP HAS BLOWN UP
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1197265917589303296
STARSHIP HAS BLOWN UP
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1197265917589303296
STARSHIP HAS BLOWN UP
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1197265917589303296
STARSHIP HAS BLOWN UP
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1197265917589303296

>>11164105
>https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1197265917589303296
SHUT THE FUCK UP
oh haha holy shit, it did, nice
good thing they have two more being built right now

>>11164090
They were offered not only their current value of living 'next to a Spaceport', which includes the possibility of renting it out, but three times that amount, yet it still wasn't enough. You're basically justifying the behavior of people that set out to stalk this company and want millions because of it. It's completely unreasonable.

It's not supposed to be like winning the lottery when a huge project needs your land to build something. You're entitled to get fair market value through Eminent Domain and nothing else unless the company negotiates with you before it happens. They should take the offer and shut the fuck up about it.

Now you just blew up Starship. Good job.
>>11164105
F

>>11164105
>https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1197265917589303296
OH FUCK. I thought you were trolling.

>>11164105
Oh no...

>>11164109
>They were offered not only their current value of living 'next to a Spaceport', which includes the possibility of renting it out,
But you seem to be implying there were wrong to expect this, even though spacex offered it? Also I understand they are disputing what the market value is. Certainly there's not enough info to know if there are highballing the price massively or if SpaceX are lowballing.

>>11164105
well fuck

>>11164105
Thought you were joking, then saw the Labpadre stream of the entire upper bulkhead liberating itself in a spray of cryogenic fuel.
Fucking hell.

On the plus side. Its made of steel, so literally bashing out the dents and re-welding it all back together is an option.

The lid really got some altitude there..

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1197267273049890821

>>11164136
>On the plus side. Its made of steel, so literally bashing out the dents and re-welding it all back together is an option.
True. But I'm worried about why it happened. Hopefully it was just a case of accidental overpressure or something like that.

>>11164142
They were doing pressure testing and the lid popped off. Obviously a weld failed somewhere.

>>11164142
That would be nice but its probably human error by just taking a fuck it close enough approach when it comes to welding

>>11164142
My vote is a bad weld that gave up during pressure testing.

>>11164136
That's nitrogen, not fuel. This explosion is why it's nitrogen, not fuel.

>>11164105
Should've hammered it harder, I guess.

>>11164142
The whole thing feels like it's put together so haphazardly that they are somewhat expecting shit like this. Like they are pressuring it to the limits of what the think it should be able to handle, and if it fails they'll learn exactly where the limits are and use the data for the next starship.

Elon has spoken about the explosion https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1197271943180771329

>>11164149
why are they filling it with nitrogen?

>>11164105
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

>>11164154
This is the second pressure testing related Starship tank explosion, if we count the carbon tank test.

>>11164161
So if it explodes, liquid methane doesn't get sprayed everywhere? I thought the giant cloud of nitrogen vapor would have made that point.

>>11164161
Pressure/leak testing

Oh shit, looks like it's going to be scraps now.
Lots of nasa&boeing boomers probably having a good laugh now.

>>11164161
Probably because its similar in density and temperature to LOx and Methane while being much cheaper and safer than both of those.

>>11164175
Anti-SpaceX shitposting will probably flood this general for a while.

>>11164175
Screencap this: SpaceX will have another Starship ready before SLS gets to the Green Run.

>>11164126
>But you seem to be implying there were wrong to expect this, even though spacex offered it?
No, that's a tangible value to be included, I was talking about the person saying that it's a million dollar view and about how they cannot be compensated for something like that, which is basically just them trying to get more compensation far beyond the actual market value. I don't think anyone said they'll never leave regardless of the offer.
>Certainly there's not enough info to know if there are highballing the price massively or if SpaceX are lowballing.
There is enough information. The value of these houses is nothing to SpaceX and they would rather give them a reasonable amount of money and be done with it. The problem is, that is easier said than done because they don't have a lot of leverage over the holdouts when the bad press of eminent domain is lurking. This is a situation that doesn't happen often because in most industries there are a lot of locations to choose from in the first place and you won't get that much attention if they have to use eminent domain. Spaceports are different because they're unable to build them in most areas and only certain regions are economical for the business. SpaceX likely would have had the same problem wherever they chose to build.

scott manley thinks the blown up part flew higher then the hopper.

>>11164180
thunderfoot is probably having the biggest erection right now.

>>11164182
more then likely.

>>11164182
I doubt it, but it'll be pretty funny if it happens.

>>11164105
FUUUCKKKKK

>>11164185
>There is enough information.
Go on then? What are SpaceX saying the property is worth then?

>SpaceX likely would have had the same problem wherever they chose to build.
Unless they were smart enough to secure the property they needed before deciding they are building a spaceport there.

>>11164153
no, they hammered the Florida one, the one that exploded was the Texas one

>>11164157
>>11164105
Neat. Looks like they'll be iterating to next Mk 3 design instead of repairing. So we'll probably see Mk 5 in developing once Mk 3 starts taking shape.

>>11164194
I dunno why you doubt it, add wings and plumbing to Mk2 at Cocoa and you're back to where Mk1 was. Elon says Boca is scrapping Mk1 and stacking Mk3. It's entirely possible SpaceX builds three Starships and explodes one of them between SLS integration and SLS testing.

Official thread theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVTXPUF4Oz4

Wait, the nose wasn't stacked, so they have a fully functional and nearly complete nose section waiting for a Starship. How fast do we think Mk3 is built?

>>11164105
Isn't the point of pressure testing to fill the vessels slowly to prevent this from happening, but still identify leaks? What the fuck were they doing

>>11164105
How could this happen to them? I'm at a complete loss.

>>11164209
Maybe there was no leaks until suddenly.. there was.

>>11164206
May not be a complete move to Mk 3, but changes in hardware that was blown out.

>>11164202
Because the Starship prototype will have to have wings added, plumbing finished, engines installed, and everything tested and verified before it'll fly. The SLS core is nearly done and all that's needed is to ship it to the test stand for the green run. Unless I'm forgetting something?

>>11164182
they already do, Florida is about the same readiness

>>11164105
Aaaand that's why they called it "Mk1"

>>11164138
When he said it'd reach 20 km, Elon didn't specify which part in particular.

I hope theyre able to get valuable data from this at least...

>>11164196
>Go on then? What are SpaceX saying the property is worth then?
Three times the market value based on the assessment of a property firm they hired. They are willing to work with the property owners if they want to use a different assessment and they're doing that, but it has to be reasonable. They're not squabbling over ten thousand dollars as you may believe, that would be incredibly stupid.
>Unless they were smart enough to secure the property they needed before deciding they are building a spaceport there.
They don't need the new properties in order to continue their business, but it's better for everyone in the area if SpaceX buys the property around it to prevent dangerous situations like what just fucking happened with the explosion. Signing a liability waver isn't enough, they shouldn't be in that area to begin with. Society is forced to choice a spaceport that may benefit millions of people over the four full time residents that live there. This whole thing would be a nonissue if it wasn't for shills, idiots who think this is a big deal, and the media that just wants to get traffic by covering it.

Can anyone corroborate this

>>11164221
>unless I'm forgetting something?
Boeing pacing.

>>11164200
Texas forgot to hammer the bulkhead into place. Of course it came loose.

>>11164168

>>11164230
>Three times the market value based on the assessment of a property firm they hired.
Lol. My question was if that market value is high balled or low balled. We know spaceX claim to be offering x3 the market value, but some owners claim the appraised price is too low. Maybe they are BSing, maybe they aren't. I don't know because I we don't know the price SpaceX actually appraised it to.

>They don't need the new properties in order to continue their business, but it's better for everyone in the area if SpaceX buys the property around it to prevent dangerous situations
You're incredibly naive. If SpaceX damaged some of those properties, they'd be held liable. And I'm sure they have bean counters who recommended that buying the properties would be much cheaper.

>>11164234
People are speculating it might have been a welding issue, so this might be inline.

YOU CAN JUST WELD OUTSIDE BRO YOU DON'T NEED STATE OF THE ART SUPER EXPENSIVE AND ADVANCED CLEAN ROOMS AND ROBOTS BRO JUST TRUST ME BRO

>>11164214
no, the hammering was in Florida
the pop-top was in Texas

>>11164105
>mfw the crinkles got fixed
>mfw it's still mostly intact besides the blown top
HOLY SHIT

>>11164248
as an amateur welder and professional pipe fitter, they'll just weld it back together

>>11164250
You don't know what sudden release of pressure does to structures, do you?
It's ogre. MK2 it is.

>>11164250
Maybe the test was to see if they smooth out the steel or test it to its limits.

Maybe they should buy the boeing planebuilding robots they scrapped.

>>11164228
based.

>failure mode is the bulkhead slamming into the cargo/crew compartment
brehs....

>>11164254
I know it weakens it, I was simply joking about how the little crinkles got blown outward and shit. Besides the newly formed one, of course.

>>11164266
that's the failure mode of tank overpressure failure which is probably only going to happen in tank pressure tests

>>11164266
actually, it's more like the front fell off

On the bright side pressuring them up really clears up the wrinkles. Now they just need to work on the depressurization system.

>>11164266
it was a successful test of the abort system

>>11164270
Or if a weld fatigues.

>>11164266
Just pop a las on it it'll be alright m8.

>>11164272
Is that typical?

Assuming nobody messed up some basic structural calculations and it's a faulty weld, why didn't they notice it with the x-ray thing they were using?

>>11164283
reddit is also making this joke therefore we can't

>>11164241
Again, they're allowed to use their own assessments. Even if it was low balled, they're getting three times the amount of something that was almost worthless before SpaceX moved in. This conversation is so repetitive, you haven't explained why SpaceX would decide to fuck the property owners over an amount that has to be under a few million, which is more than the total value of these 12 properties, half of which are abandoned.
>You're incredibly naive. If SpaceX damaged some of those properties, they'd be held liable. And I'm sure they have bean counters who recommended that buying the properties would be much cheaper.
What are you talking about? I never suggested they wouldn't be held liable currently. They wouldn't be held liable if the owners signed a wavier in order to stay, which is what at least one person wanted to do. It wouldn't cost SpaceX much if there was a disaster onsite because they have liability insurance to cover it. The price of their insurance likely wouldn't change much if they owned the properties around it and it wouldn't be more than the sum of buying them.

>>11164290
SPOOKED

>>11164290
Who cares what jokes another website making?

Based on the icing I think they were pressurizing just the bigger lower tank. If that's true it punched through the upper tank.

>>11164290
twitter is also making that joke, therefore I wasn't going to

>>11164292
Waiver is fine for material damage, but the collateral damage would be hueg. There would be a huge blowback from the public/government about the safety of SpaceX.

F

It’s pretty hilarious that Mk1 failed before they were even able to put actual fuel in it...

top-tier movie reference coming through

>>11164292
>Again, they're allowed to use their own assessments.
Uh yeah. But the homeowner is allowed to use theirs too and dispute it. If it comes down to eminent domain, the homeowner can lawyer up and probably win a higher price is SpaceX is low balling. Which is completely reasonable for them to do.

>you haven't explained why SpaceX would decide to fuck the property owners over an amount that has to be under a few million
err.. why would they not try to save $100,000 if they could? Why just throw that money away? SpaceX should be trying to get the property for the lowest amount possible. The homeowner should try to get the best price they can.

>>11164290
Is that typical?

>>11164297
oh shit, bulkhead failure on the LOx tank causing a Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion and punching the top off?

>>11164290
no they aren't.

And just after joining the lunar lander program!

>>11164307
The China Syndrome? I can barely remember if that was a scene..

>>11164325
“wE’lL bE On thE MoOn bY 2022”

>>11164327
ding ding

>>11164329
they just need to scale up the explosion so the bulkhead ends up on a lunar trajectory

>>11164335
Like the nuclear manhole cover?

>>11164303
They're not going to be launching directly over the houses, it would take a real freak accident to send something flying from the launch pad into someone.
>>11164309
> If it comes down to eminent domain, the homeowner can lawyer up and probably win a higher price is SpaceX is low balling
That isn't how it works. In that case they won't get three times the possibly low SpaceX market value, they'll just get the market value assessed by the state, which is bound to be much lower than the offer. This whole thing is negatively impacting SpaceX more than the few hundred thousand they could save by low balling the owners. If you're going to create some conspiracy theory around it to defend the holdouts, provide proof because what you are saying isn't a reasonable assessment of the situation and wouldn't explain why most property owners besides the SpaceX stalkers took the offer.
>why would they not try to save $100,000 if they could?
It's not actually saving money, that's why. They would pay millions just to get rid of the negative media attention surrounding this issue. The price of the properties is nothing compared to the convenience of getting the issue settled.

>>11164333
Great movie. I hate it for pushing "nuclear spooky scary!!" into the public zeitgeist, but I love it more for having a cool slow boiling science/engineering plotline and a soundtrack that is basically just nuclear power plant control room alarms.

Why are people surprised and sad and shit about Mk1? The value of these cheap meme steel hulls is that they can be iterated and expended cheaply. Mk1 exploded during testing, but it had better than even odds of doing so.

>>11164351
Failures are still pretty sad even if they're expected. Plus, FUD posters are going to have a field day with this and will try to use this to hurt other people's perception of SpaceX.

>>11164346
>they'll just get the market value assessed by the state, which is bound to be much lower than the offer.
perhaps, perhaps not. They may convince the state that the demand for disgusting space nerds wanting to rent the property would but the price above what SpaceX are offering. No conspiracy theory, just expecting normal people to act normally.

>They would pay millions just to get rid of the negative media attention surrounding this issue.
LOL. I'll bet you good money they wouldn't give a shit. SpaceX isn't Tesla. Their customers aren't going to care about how some stupid imminent domain thing went down. As if the air force, or some japanese communications company is going to cancel an order because they saw them using eminent domain to buy some houses.

>>11164105
*crack*
*sips*
Aaaaah!
Now that‘s a failure mode.

>>11164350
the director didn’t mean for it to be anti nuclear, which is the weird thing.

Only spacex fails, others don't, and this is yet another bombastic proof.

>>11164357
Thank God SpaceX isn't publicly traded. The fallout of this will be memes and overtime for some mexican welders.

>>11164368
Well I imagine he just wanted to warn people about the dangers and encourage plants to be run safely.

I forget, but didn't the movie say that california would be uninhabitable if the plant blew up? Was there any other big fibs? Kinda shocking how many big lies like this spread about nuclear. Was disappointed when the HBO Chernobyl show claimed there was a danger of a megaton explosion at the power plant.

>>11164369
>Only spacex fails, others don't

>Boeing
>Lockheed Martin
>Roscosmos
>Ariane
They also have had some pretty nasty failures, some arguably worse than what just happened today.

>>11164370
To be fair, even the PR hit will be moderate. Even if you don‘t know that they can shit two of these out per year per construction site, you can clearly see they already have another one in Florida.

>>11164358
Negative press coverage hurts SpaceX. NASA reviewed SpaceX after their Dragon test explosion. They got reviewed when Falcon 9 exploded earlier in the launch. They got reviewed when Musk smoked weed(but not drank alcohol on the same live set).

Negative coverage = fud/doubts/questions from senators/congress/people who hate Elon and his company or simply want them gone because it competes with traditional "American" companies. Its an extra ammunition.

>>11164370
Political fallout still exists. Starship in artemis is DOA now and they have the perfect reason to shoot it down without too much embarrassment - it won't be ready in time because it blew up.

And I was hoping for more entertaining reasons like "redundant payload capacity" or "excessive cargo volume".

>>11164373
Live streamed?

>>11164380
Oh yeah. They'll get investigated for using imminent domain to buy some local houses beside their giant spaceport.

>>11164383
Boeing had a parachute failure very recently.

>>11164380
>ecologists outraged after spacex froze a swamp with its rocket killing numerous endangered species

>>11164386
No, using imminent domain = negative perception from public and senators/congressmen who fund NASA/Airforce professionally and personally if they're very prude about land owner rights.

>>11164358
>They may convince the state that the demand for disgusting space nerds wanting to rent the property would but the price above what SpaceX are offering
They won't because the state doesn't give a fuck what some idiot filming a rocket test area thinks about the value of his property. They would have actual trained assessors which would have a price in line with the existing assignment, because it's based on real metrics and not hypothetical bullshit about a future business potential. The property owners wouldn't get three times the value so they don't want this to happen, which is why one them specifically asked Elon Musk about its use.
>LOL. I'll bet you good money they wouldn't give a shit.
If they didn't give a shit, they would just use eminent domain from the start and get all the properties at a fraction of the price they already paid out. SpaceX is very sensitive to their image because how much they need public support to run things like Starlink without turning the world against them and shutting it down.

>>11164382
I wonder how much this actually materially affects the timeline. They still have the Florida prototype and IIRC another in production at each site. The super quick turnaround for the first hop is gone but I don't think anyone saw that happening to begin with.

>>11164394
if it's abused. I don't think anyone will give a shit in this case.

https://youtu.be/bvim4rsNHkQ
Reminder that this isn't very new. It's just an addition to SpaceX's compilation.

>>11164400
Wrong. Anything negative = ammunition for anti-Elon/SpaceX people and they are constantly on media, everyday on CNBC.

>>11164395
>not hypothetical bullshit about a future business potential.
What on earth else would determine the price of a property except hypothetical demand for who would want to buy it or rent it and for how much?

>>11164383
Roscosmos had that booster failure during MS-10. And while they're not live streamed in the current sense, Lockheed and Ariane had rocket failures on live television with their Delta 2 and Ariane 5 rockets respectively.

>>11164399
Months but whoever reviews the proposal can easily make analogies with other historical cases of pressure faied fuel tanks and conclude it will be longer.

>>11164403
>>11164400
Also unless you're living under a cave, the FUD spinning machine against Elon is very active and financially well funded.

>>11164403
They get that everyday anyways. I'm making a call here.. I really don't think they give a shit. In fact that's partly why so many people hate them. Elon says and does things all the time that he doesn't have to the riles lots of people up. They just do whatever they think will help them attain their goals faster.

FUD posters out in full force today I see.

>>11164408
It's based around what people pay for similar houses in similar areas, historic prices, tax assessments and such, not if they have a hypothetical possibility of renting it out. It doesn't work that way.

It's even harder to defend them now. They just live streamed the destruction of MK1 to the world. This incident would get a fraction of the attention if they didn't have people filming their property 24/7 like an obsessed stalker. Why would SpaceX want them to stay and watch their every move?

>>11164413
But its one extra. Every "spacex is awesome" will be countered by "reminder: spacex stole land from hard working Americans. They're evil!!!!"

>>11164435
>similar areas
Such as right next to spaceports with brilliant views of launches. Precisely my point.

>>11164444
Most people don't want to live next to a fucking spaceport. There are very few people that would move to an area without any services, schools, or stores nearby. Somewhere that as far south and isolated as you can possibly get while still being in the US. Somewhere with a very high poverty rate and with crime to the point some residents have installed full barb wire fences around their house.

If the properties are worth that much, why wouldn't they just put them on the market now and have people outbid SpaceX? You're not making a rational argument.

>>11164466
>Most people don't want to live next to a fucking spaceport.
There's lots of places most people don't want to live that some people are willing to pay a lot of money to live.

>If the properties are worth that much, why wouldn't they just put them on the market now and have people outbid SpaceX?
You're not thinking. SpaceX are obviously about to buy it, so who would bother buying it now just to to sell it to SpaceX right after? And what would the point of selling it to that person be?

>>11164475
>There's lots of places most people don't want to live that some people are willing to pay a lot of money to live.
No one is paying a lot of money to live there, or else the property owners would have already had buyers in the years before SpaceX decided that they were going to buy out these properties. Do you seriously think that more than a few people are going to quit their job and move across the country to go watch rockets take off all day long in a half abandoned suburb in one of the worst areas in the US?
> SpaceX are obviously about to buy it, so who would bother buying it now just to to sell it to SpaceX right after?
See above. You're stating that you would be willing to bet that they'll get higher values if SpaceX is forced to use ED. If that was true, you would expect people to try to snap up the properties before the eight owners sold them recently.

Reminder: SpaceX is a dangerous company and Elon Musk wants to steal land from hard working Americans. Just look at today's explosion, it nearly killed some of the people around it. As a danger to the public, we must nationalize SpaceX and break up the company.

What exact alloy of steel does Starship use (the windward facing skin in particular)? I've heard anywhere between 300 and 400.

>>11164532
301 stainless series.

What pressure does starship even need? Falcon 9 has 3.5 bar/ 50 PSI on the propellant tanks for flight pressure stabilization. Starship is made of steel after all so like the saturn V first stage for example it shouldn't require pressurized tanks for its strutural integrity.

>>11164383
Ariane 5 just had a vega rocket failure livestreamed

>>11163883
I think this is a bunch of bitching about something that isn't so bad, but aren't they planning to launch a fleet every other week when they really get going on this? If, say, it takes a week to boost them, they'll be more visible than usual every other week.

>>11164395
you can't use eminent domain until you've made a good faith attempt to buy the properties without bullshit

*Notices ur bulge*