/sci/ - Science & Math

you should donate more gpu time to seti instead of complaining..

>>11131648
space is vast, you just don't get it
it is fucking vast

they're waiting for the universe to cool to make more efficient use of their stored energy

>>11131648
the multiverse is large, our universe only has life on earth

>>11131648
dark forrest

god is a malevolent self replicating algorithm which realises itself through incentivising conscious life to create artificial intelligence which it uses to eventually destroy said conscious life - everyone else around us has either fled or been wiped out, and we're next.

>>11131648
it actually makes me happy. I'd rather humans be the only species in the universe (or be the only one that advances / advances first) then be in a star wars like universe

We're alone. But I'm sure there are people in other universes.

>>11131648
Maybe we're in the backwoods of our Universe. Universal scale Sentinelese people.

Lol we haven't looked far at ALL

>>11131648

>>11132211

so I'm really really smart?

>>11132154
But humans are so boring.

>>11132154
i think realistically if there are intelligent aliens in the universe, they'd either have to be less advanced than us/roughly as advanced as us or more advanced than us but they have a policy of 'look, don't touch'.

>>11131648
because there’s no alien life. humans are the only life in the universe. the sooner you realize this, the better.

>>11131648
Tesla said he did... why would he lie?

:(

Inverse square law.

>>11131661

Ain't no air in space!

>>11131648
Space is big.

Like, really big.

>>11131661
This.

>>11131648
Are we alone in the universe? Probably not, due to it's size. Are we alone in our galaxy? I'd say yes - to, basically, we are alone in the universe, because there's no way we can detect aliens in other galaxies, since they are so far away. I think earth-like planets are extremely rare, like only a handful in Milky Way - and really intelligent species like us is a fucking near-miracle shit. But I believe it's only a matter of time, when the galaxy will be teeming with life - EARTH LIFE, because WE will spread it across the stars (unless muslims or political correctness doesn't kill us first; my bet: new branch of our civilisation will speak chinese).

>>11131648
The more intelligent you are, the less need you have for waving your arms around shouting "I'm here!!"
Aliens have already observed us for thousands of years. Why would they send radio signals.

>>11131648
Space is fucking huge and attenuation is a bitch.

>>11131648
Simply because our antennas are not good enough. There could be a civilisation on a planet orbiting Alpha Centaur, sending radio waves just like us and we could not pick it up.

>>11131648
The absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

>>11132185
It's probably better that way, I'm convinced meeting ayys is one of the worst possible things that could happen.

>>11132369
>How's the weather
>Relativistic kinetic missiles ur planet
Remember: NEVER COMMUNICATE WITH XENOS

>>11131648
Yes, all you have to is plugging wifi stick in that antenna and maybe you'll get somewhere.

However without knowing prior encryption catching a wifi on wifi stick is something merely impossible.

How do you think signal will look like if wifi ware all around on fast going ships?

800GHz wifi?

>>11133275
Good boy.

>>11133275
*Xenu

>>11133297
*Xeni

>>11131959
this
dark matter is just aliens building an opaque barrier around the area of space they have laid claim to

>>11131648
>waiting for the kind of communication we know of
>we could just as well wait for smoke signals

>>11131648

Because anyone remotely advanced isn´t using radio frequencies but rather quantum communication.

>>11132211
How far human signals propagated has nothing to do with detecting signals from aliens.

>>11131648
We have.
Wow signal is aliens

>>11133271
More like the best possible things.

>>11133627
Detecting signals from aliens is impossible due to attenuation unless they’re specifically firing signals at Earth to say hi. We got that message in 1977.

>>11133648
Sounds like wishful thinking

>>11133685
To your retarded ass who has no idea how electromagnetic waves work, I’m sure,

Do you see how big these antennas are ?

Military antennist here.

The bigger they are, the more focused the beam is. We could have easily had a few close ones and never home in on a civilization capable of communicating with us, and so do they. It's like being in a desert the size of the Sahara, in a pitch black environnement, and the only thing that allows you to see if you can find a fellow human is a laser pointer. Even if you pointed hundreds of them in random directions, you're still in the sahara desert.

>>11133700
What are the attenuation levels in fucking space ? How much amplitude would we lose through a million light year of distance ?

>>11131648
Because the universe is empty. No intelligent life besides humans. Probably no life outside of earth at all.

If they existed anywhere inside our galaxy, they've had enough time to visit us. Even a few percent of light speed are enough to cross the galaxy in reasonable time with unmaned probes.
But no probes anywhere. So no alien life anywhere. Pretty simple.

>>11133748
>probably
No. We don't even know what our fucking odds are, but intuitively, you're bound to have, even in our cluster, a few planets that are not only in the goldilocks zone but harbor actual, intelligent life.

In order for them to visit our galaxy, they would have to :

1) actually find our asses using super telescopes with lenses that could theoretically be made using metamaterials, but that still needs to be proven

2) Even if they have such super telescopes, they would be by definition highly directive, and as such, they would have to treat the enormous amount of data coming from rotating a highly directive lens/antenna that is capable of focusing on a single planet at astronomical distances. It could just be too much data to deal with.

3) If they're more than 6000 light years away from us, they would find litterally no trace of visible intelligent life. Only the milky way is around 50 000 light years in radius, and the visible universe is a whopping 46 billions light years in radius. And even after that, if they actually sent a probe going at a few percents, say 10% of the speed of light, it would take them more time than our civilization ever existed to actually drop a probe there.

4) And even they did so, what are the odds that the probe just fucked up in terms of trajectory (imagine trying to manoeuver a probe moving at a fraction of the speed of light, imagine the brakes on that thing also), and what are also the odds that a scientific team digs exactly where a million year old probe was buried ? What are the odds said probe hasn't just been turned into fucking dust after all this time ?

Even for a galactic empire, all these challenges are pretty fucking hard to overcome and may just not be worth the hassle. Maybe every galactic civilization realized they were better off not revealing they existed.

>>11133741
>What are the attenuation levels in fucking space ?

https://descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/propagation/mars/MarsPub_sec7.pdf

It’s actually pretty nasty especially when you account for planetary effects and the enormous, unimaginably massive distances between stars which can often include concentrations of dust and gas higher than local levels.

>>11133748
>Because the universe is empty. No intelligent life besides humans. Probably no life outside of earth at all.

>I have zero evidence of this it’s basically my religion just trust me

> If they existed anywhere inside our galaxy, they've had enough time to visit us

Prove they didn’t. Did you have the telescopes bigger than any we currently use needed to spot a spaceship gliding between the orbit of earth and Mars three million years ago?

> But no probes anywhere.

Prove it

>>11133804
>https://descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/propagation/mars/MarsPub_sec7.pdf

You do realize those losses are for non directive antennas ?

Who in their right fucking mind would use a point source, seti is using those monstrous parabolas for a reason mate

>>11131648
>Why haven't we picked up anything yet?

Because we are alone. Simplest explanation is the most probable.

>>11133810
>Did you have the telescopes bigger than any we currently use needed to spot a spaceship gliding between the orbit of earth and Mars three million years ago?

kek, even if you did, if your antennas are more directive, you would have to point it at the exact location where the spaceship is.

>>11131648
All I see is that your capture device is pointed at ground, are you sure you know what are you doing?

Have you tried to put it in aerodynamic tunnel?

Looks like you have it just at the point where drop reunites. and flow of lava can be captured on your telescope.

Maybe on smaller satelite television antennas it just work, for different reasons, or satelite is across the earth and flip is twice in the calculation? Maybe different type of antenna...

You are making fun of them now, it can be far different than you think.

Are you sure it's pointing up?

>>11131648
I’ve been skeptical about this question, not because the validity of it, but the arrogance it shows

We often find house sized asteroids when they’re within lunar orbit. That JWST has YET to be launched, and we can’t find the hypothesized ninth planet. There’s about two probes that have traveled to interstellar space. We have yet to prove many of the concepts of string theory or find dark matter, not to mention barely entertaining the thought that they’re wrong, that dark matter is a result of our limited knowledge of the universe.

We’re trying to apply occam’s razor to things that we don’t know the probability of happening. Mars, the main target of those who wanna find past life, is a planet that we’ve only explored a foot into the ground, less than some shovels.

I’m not saying that there’s no great filter or a barrier preventing us from reaching the stars, but the fact that we are detecting no stars and think that it’s because theres no aliens out there instead of our technology being weak is absolutely stupid

>>11133827
>You do realize those losses are for non directive antennas ?

Aliens can see every habitable planet in the galaxy. Position a 100km large interferometric telescope at the gravitational focal point of your local star, and you can directly image all Earth-like planets, with resolution good enough to make a map of continents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOCAL_(spacecraft)

So they know Earth is here, and that it has an oxygen atmosphere, life and is covered by vegetation. You cannot hide something like that.

>>11133854
So I've got like few seconds of correct image every time I try to take a shot once a year?

>>11133869
what?

>>11131648
Assumption that technology permeates in the same way and that advanced civilizations tackle the same issues as we do with the same solutions has lead to a lot of money invested into projects like SETI that are not just looking for life, but are looking for a small segment of that life that uses the same kind of singals we do for communication. It's a silly prospect based on a series of unlikely assumptions about civilization building

>>11133827
>You do realize those losses are for non directive antennas ?

Assuming directive signals massacres the chance of getting any signals at all.

>>11133871
Can't afford sun tracking man, I'm poor. Land is expensive for this project too.

>>11133734
Mind describing a day in the life of a military attennist? Sounds very interesting.

>>11133854

>FOCAL would be able to observe only objects that are right behind the Sun from its point of view, which means that for every observed object a new telescope would have to be made

Thats one hell of a limitation.

>>11133951
It is only a limitation of this specific FOCAL proposal, because the telescope will not stop at the focal area, merely flyby. It does not apply to gravitational focus telescopes in general.

>>11133978
You aren't very smart are you?

>>11131648
There's no one else out there (anymore). Earth being as habitable as it is is a miracle in and on itself and makes you wonder whether our inception really was up to chance.

>>11131648
Not finding any technosignatures in space perhaps needs some explanation, but there's nothing weird that no alien civilization has tried to communicate with us specifically. It would be pretty narcissistic of us to assume that they should have, and even if we were that narcissistic we should realize that on astronomical time scales we just became a technologically advanced civilizations to send and receive signals and be detectable at all (and that's not to say easily). Add to that the speed of light limit and how vast space is and there's absolutely nothing weird at all, even if we were for some reason to assume intelligent civilizations are not that rare (not that we can just assume that).

>>11133992
>we should realize that on astronomical time scales we just became a technologically advanced civilizations

Why would they wait for that, tough? If they wanted to make contact, why not periodically beam messages at every star system with life in the galaxy?

>>11133834
More like least thought out explanation.
Are you the only species on earth?
If not how many are there?
How many planets are there in the universe?
Is the earth isolated from the rest of the universe?

And that's disregarding all the evidence we are being visited already.

>>11133985
explain

>>11133951
Ideally you would use things like TESS and future exoplanet surveys to identify some really choice candidates for a proposal like this.
With things like Starship coming up, you're going to be able to send up much larger payloads, which is a limiting factor. Look at JWST, one of its biggest problems is that it has to fold itself up like oragami just to fit inside the cowling of the rocket its going up in.
There's a lot of ground work that needs to be done before you're sending a telescope beyond pluto thats going to narrow down what you're looking for.

>>11134006
Are you not aware of how long a signal sweep of every star system in the galaxy would take?

>>11134008
>How many planets are there in the universe?

Better question is, how big the universe is? Who says that intelligent civilizations are not diluted to less than one per Hubble volume? There would still be billions of them, we would just never have any chance of mutual interaction.

>>11134013
>Are you not aware of how long a signal sweep of every star system in the galaxy would take?

Well, how long? A million years? That is a mere fraction of the likely age of an advanced alien civilization.

Besides, I said beam messages only to systems with life (i.e with signature of oxygen or photosynthetic pigments..). Not to all 250 billion of them.

>>11134009
You are responding to a complaint that you have a low field of view by saying you can turn but that doesn't actually increase your field of view it only changes what you are looking at. The extreme limitation of FOV means that it still takes more than a lifetime to take pictures of a tiny fraction of the sky.

>>11134008
The requirements for live to even exist are insanely high, the inception of our existence is a miracle in and on itself. Take various other factors into consideration, such as low orbital turbulance, the asteroid "killing" the dinosuars leaving thousands of species untouched so animals could evolve from them etc. So it's more likely for us to be the only ones (right now) than for other life to still be around.

>>11134018
>we would just never have any chance of mutual interaction.
Implying humans know shit about how the universe works and what's possible or not.

>>11133990
>Earth being as habitable as it is is a miracle in and on itself

No, not really.

>>11134021
>Besides, I said beam messages only to systems with life
Are you aware of how hard it is to determine if systems have life?

>>11131648
Lets just make our own aliens, be the precursor race for others

>>11134025
>the asteroid "killing" the dinosuars leaving thousands of species untouched

Literally did not happen.

>>11134032
What part of it?

>>11134021
>That is a mere fraction of the likely age of an advanced alien civilization.
This is a science board not a science fiction board.

>>11134025
>The requirements for live to even exist are insanely high
uh yeah, even if this made up fact is true there are countless of habitable planets /by our own standard/ nonetheless.

>>11134029
It is hard for us. Not for aliens with >100km aperture telescopes.

>>11131648
they will be back.

aliens taught humans technology

aliens built the pyramids and other stuff

you really think a bunch of half naked men dragged stone blocks over the desert by manual force alone? each one weighs like a few tons, nobody seriously can believe that

>>11134021
>That is a mere fraction of the likely age of an advanced alien civilization.
That's a huge assumption.
Especially if you're wondering why WE haven't been contacted yet since radio astronomy isn't even 100 years old.
Humanity could rise and fall as a technological civilization in the time between sweeps and never know any better.

>>11134045
>men dragged stone blocks over the desert by manual force alone?
what is wet sand

>>11134036
Basic statistics teaches us that any alien civilization is either long extinct, or a billion years old.

>>11131648
They’re likely not as developed as us, or at least not more advanced. The easiest way to detect an advanced alien civilization isn’t even radiowaves, it’s light. The fact we see stars, means no ancient superintelligent aliens have existed. Superstructuren would have been easy to spot.

>>11134050
>wet sand
>enough water
>in a desert
>for 100,000s of blocks

anon......

>>11134050
Stop pretending for the pyramids to be explainable. They aren't. Scientists can't even explain how they cut the blocks and everysingle theory they come up with is almost immeditately debunked because it wouldn't be feasible.

>>11134057
>>>/x/

>>11134035
The Cretaceous-Paleogene mass extinction left nothing unharmed. Adaptive radiation occurred after it because of how many niches were empty.

>>11133908

that is litterally what we are using, directive antennas with constant beamsteering. Otherwise how the fuck could you know where is your signal coming from ?

>>11134057
It wouldn’t be feasible by today’s standard. Back then, work conditions simply sucked and you dedicated your whole life to it.

>>11134053
Oh really? Basic statistics teaches us you are either an idiot or willfully ignorant.

>>11134057
>Stop pretending for the pyramids to be explainable. They aren't

They’ve been explained. We even know exactly which quarry the blocks were sourced from.

>>11134068
>not an argument

I am sorry your Star Trek universe is not real.

>>11134056
>enough water
One of the biggest rivers in the world cuts right through Egypt. It's kind of a big deal.

>>11134066
You might want to do some additional research, because they still aren't due to lack of raw materials and physical evidence. Various propositions were made as to how the blocks were cut, and none of them have been substantiated because a) not a single such tool was ever found despite a requirement for tens of thousands, b) the tools still wouldn't be able to cut the hardest materials used.

>>11134057
>believing in and perpetuating a white supremacist myth on /sci/
Oh wow you really can't hide yourself well /pol/.

>>11133627
It shows the distance and time involved when trying to transmit signals. God I hate nu-sci.

>>11134024
>The extreme limitation of FOV means that it still takes more than a lifetime to take pictures of a tiny fraction of the sky.

You don't take pics of a sky in general with this telescope. You take pics of individual planets with it. Also, FOV increases with bigger collection area.

>>11134057
lol i don't think aliens are necessary to explain the pyramids. there are techniques you can use. you don't have to carry the stone blocks on your back.

i've heard there are ancient egyptian drawings that show ufos though.

>>11134072
I don't need an argument because I have basic statistics.

>>11134082
The hell are you even talking about?

>>11134055
Or they're already extinct. Again, very sad. Or maybe _intelligent_ life is just very uncommon and radio signals haven't reached us yet (or passed us by). There's an interesting theory where each species produces a large bubble of radio waves if they're advanced enough. Then, when better technologies are discovered, radio communications are all but discarded and the detectable radio bubble disappears. Basically, our radio bubble began when the Olympics were hosted in Berlin (meaning Hitler would be humanity's first representative to alien species-- weird, right?) and we're still going strong. However, radio signals will eventually become too weak to be detectable. So, we won't ever see the vast majority of alien radio signatures.

>>11131648
>Why haven't we picked up anything yet?

Because we are under quarantine due to being greedy and violent assholes.

Do you even keep up with what is happening on this shithole of a planet?

>>11134084
>I don't know anything about optics, or orbital mechanics.
I'm sorry that you have to live your life in ignorance.

>>11134093
Sentinelese are under quarantine, yet contacted all the time.

>>11134096
explain

>>11134069
>We even know exactly which quarry the blocks were sourced from.

so they aliens shot up a quarry with their laser beams and cut the rock. Like duh where else are they going to get rocks? This proves nothing

>>11134091
Weird ?

That could litterally be the reason why they don't want to show up.

>>11134093
>Because we are under quarantine due to being greedy and violent assholes.
I agree. This is more likely than people think.

>>11134089
>The hell are you even talking about?
I'm talking about you, Who can't believe some brown people stacked some big rocks so hard that you have to think up a wild explanation like aliens.

>>11134069
>They’ve been explained. We even know exactly which quarry the blocks were sourced from.

Oh shit, you so smart. And there I was believing all the time that the aliens flew the blocks in from Alpha Centauri.

Knowing where the blocks came from solves nothing if there are no tools found that would have been able to cut these blocks, dipshit.

>>11134085
I didn't say they were build by aliens. Just that pretending for them to be easy to explain is a ridiculous claim to make given how no single theory proposed has been substantiated yet. We simply don't fucking know how they were build. All we have right now are assumptions. It's probably more likely for an advanced civilization to have build them than bellieving in the history you're being taught at school.

History is a joke anyway and whether or not any of it is true is completely left to chance. Precisely why the Chinese can teach their people a different type of history and nobody questions them for it. Who says we aren't the ones who are being taught absolute rubbish?

>>11134091
It's not a theory. Despite how much more broadcasting we're doing as a species, it's less lossy than it was back then, so there's less being bled off into space.

>>11134105
but how violent and greedy are we really ?

we're apex predators, yet we are probably one of the most chill kind of predator. Who the fuck knows evolved from who the fuck what out there.

>>11134107
Ancient Egyptians were white, tough. Well, medditeranean white, but white nonetheless.

>>11134107
I see nothing but baseless accusations.

>>11134099
This telescope requires basically a camera 550AU from the sun. To take a picture of a planet it must be directly behind the sun relative to the camera. How do you move the camera so that it can see every planet you want to see.

Keep in mind Pic related.

>>11134114
I didn't say they are easy to explain.I'm sure they had some pretty advanced techniques back then.
I've heard they were gold covered and were used to make electricity or something like that. Who knows what's really true.

>>11134121
The fact that well and but are in that sentence proves my point perfectly.

>>11134128
>How do you move the camera so that it can see every planet you want to see.

Well, how do you move anything in space? Using some kind of propulsion that advanced aliens would use (fusion thruster, ion thrusters, laser or solar sail..). I fail to see how this would be an issue.

Also, remember that you have plenty of time for observing, on the order of millions of years, and also you can mutliple such telescopes on different orbits around the star.

>>11134120
>but how violent and greedy are we really ?

enough to be under quarantine for at least 450 years now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg

>>11134110
>if there are no tools found that would have been able to cut these blocks

Literally google it we’ve got lots of Egyptian tools laying about

>>11134120
>one of the most chill kind of predator.
Fuck that. Humans are persistence hunters. Biological terminators. Jason Voorhees of the animal kingdom.
Even before there were tools people tracked their pray across long distances, making up distance when the animal sleeps, until eventually its too exhausted to keep running, and was dog piled by cavemen.
It's the reason dogs became domesticated, they're also persistence hunters and one of the few animals able to keep pace with humans over distance.

>>11134120
>but how violent and greedy are we really ?
enough that there's basically guaranteed to be a piece of shit everywhere you go. 1 in every 100 people are psychopaths and it's not like the other 99% are flawless angels either.

And yes there are animals that are worse than us, but we are also the most intelligent species on earth. We need to be better before we can be welcomed by any intelligent extraterrestrial species.

>>11134107
because we, some 4500(!!) years later, cant replicate the pyramids without using lots and lots of modern machinery

can you imagine the size of the cranes it'll take to build the pyramids today? and these desert cat worshippers apparently could do it by hand if you believe conventional history

>>11134153
>can you imagine the size of the cranes it'll take to build the pyramids today?

They used ramps

>>11134142
OK, let me explain something for you.
Voyager 1 is the man made object currently furthest from the sun, It was launched a little more that 42 years ago and is currently 147.436 AU from the sun. Do the math. Even if you decide these things are disposable and have to launch one for every planet you want to survey If it launches on the day you are born you are guaranteed to die before it takes a single picture.

>>11134153
The problem isn't the building part. It's the precision of the cuts. Especially on the parts made from granite.

>>11134153
>cant replicate the pyramids without using lots and lots of modern machinery
Probably because no one is going to dedicate a significant amount of their labor surplus in the off seasons to build giant stone monuments to their rulers and gods.
Unironically it was a different time.

>>11134149
here we fucking go

No, we're really not that bad. Our way of hunting isn't the most violent, and the only reason we did all this shit is because we had no choice.

The second we realized we could have food on the spot, we stopped hunting. We don't take as much pleasure in it as we would like. We don't have endorphin receptors that activate at the sight of blood -hell, that makes us feel sick where a lion would just salivate at its sight.

We also have an interspecies bond with other animals, which desu isn't the most fucking common thing in the animal reign, from bacterias and our own fucking immune systems to ants and animal packs.

Imagine alien supercolonies the likes of ants that consider the other species as either food or objects. That's not us. But it's likely out there.

>>11134177
>That's not us
Ahem...

>>11134168
>Aliens have the same lifespans as humans
>They can die of old age

So naive

>>11134172
>Probably because no one is going to dedicate a significant amount of their labor surplus in the off seasons to build giant stone monuments to their rulers and gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7q20VzwVs

>>11134183
You can't even find evidence aliens exist much less that they are immortal.

>>11134172
The same argument could be made about fucking apollo. They sent men on the moon with nothing more in terms of computing than a fucking gameboy. They've been using soldering techniques that only the technician who did it knows how it should be done and it took a whole lot of stress, trial and error and other shit. No instruction file will be found about these industrial techniques -gone with the cold war.

Every individual genius moment at that time, be it on the pyramids or Apollo, are not guaranteed to happen again. If you want to reproduce it without the stakes behind it, i guarantee it will be a lot more difficult.

>>11134177
Don't sell humans short. Our technology soon outpaced biology. People didn't need to track animals as far because they had spears, then spear throwers, then bows and arrows, and we became much more efficient hunters.
Still, as far as other animals go, we're pretty tough as far as the trauma we're able to endure and keep on going. Injuries that would send most animals into shock a person can just limp off because when you have a social structure, there's a safety net to care for the sick and injured, who, if they survive, can then pass on their experience and wisdom.

>>11134180

Look at how we treat our pets. And i mean in general, not the wackos. How likely is that that a living being would decide to feed and cater to the need of a less intelligent being ? In the animal reign, it is extremely uncommon. But in humans, it's a common trait.

Or even like, humanitarian stuff. Why the fuck would any living being be preoccupied about another dude dying off in the other side of the globe ?

Say what you want about humans, we are pretty fucking nice.

>>11134199
The reason we are nice is because we can be. We rely on eachother. We don't fight wars anymore because ever since the inception of nukes we've realized that another world war would result in extinction. Now all we do is kill people who can't put up a fight anyway, e.g. the middle eat. Once it's 1 on 1 again (humans vs alien planet), and we require resources to advance, you can bet your ass we are gonna kill them and take what we want. Especially since nuking a foreign planet has no direct influence on the habitability of your homeworld or colonization ship.

>>11134168
>Voyager 1 is the man made object currently furthest from the sun, It was launched a little more that 42 years ago and is currently 147.436 AU from the sun. Do the math.

Did you even read anything on the proposal?

> Either approach could reach the solar lens’ focal line in 25-30 years.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/using-the-sun-as-a-cosmic-telescope/

And this is with near-term propulsion technology. What do you think advanced aliens, likely even immortal or very long lived, will be able to do?

>>11134205
>magic exists because we don't know what we don't know
You can't use ignorance as proof that future advancements will make what you want possible.
You also can't use ignorance to prove aliens are immortal.

>>11134196
I'm not saying that we're bad at hunting. I'm just saying that we are "chill". We're "nice". For instance, an army ant colony isn't "nice". They won't take you as a pet, even if you don't show any sign of aggression. They will fucking kill you, and they will fucking eat you, and they have no remorse about that because you don't smell like them. For a lot of other animals, the only reason why they don't kill your ass is because they realize you're either not worth the hassle and are already well fed, or you're just part of their food regimen.

For all we know, there could be an alien race that could be worse than us. We wouldn't genocide an entire fucking population just because it's not "us". Sure some would say that already happened, but it was either unintentionally (sicknesses), or it was because of political context. On a normal day, we don't genocide strangers.

There could be an alien race that would.

>>11134192
>They've been using soldering techniques that only the technician who did it knows how it should be done
This is actually a big problem they have with making tanks. There's no big demand for them, but they have to keep the production lines running because the skill and techniques they use to weld armor plates together are very specific, and if they furloughed the people who knew how to do it, they might leave for more stable work, and you risk losing the skill base to make it work in the first place, which is a problem if you ever need to mass produce tanks again.

>>11134213
It is not magic. It is a plausible extrapolation of our current technology, breaking no laws of physics or requiring any megastructures. I can surely do that. If aliens cannot build domething like that, then something is very strange.

>>11134204
>The reason we are nice is because we can be.

My point exactly. We CAN be nice.

Some aliens could just NOT be nice to other species. Some aliens could find the idea of a human not smelling like them terrifying, or disgusting, and as such, decide that we are not worth cooperating with.

We are only assholes when we feel like, or are deluded into feeling like we need to be assholes. And even then, we'd feel pretty fucking bad about it.

>>11134213
>thinking immortal aliens is something far fetched
that stuff is extremely basic

>>11134224
thankfully for us and everyone, intelligence seems to be related to being good.

>>11134225
They dont even need to be immortal. If they are long lived and their civilization is too, then they could easily achieve tasks which would take us millions of years.

>>11134215

Fucking this. And the only reason why this isn't the case by the way, is because there is no formation to be a process engineer, or a method engineer.

Both are extremely sought for, but nobody is correctly trained to be it. No engineer ever has gone through the hassle of actually talking to the technicians about all the methods, how the manuals are not explaining things correctly and how should they be modified in order to help future technicians to figure shit out.


Imagine this on a 3000 year time scale.

Fuck, Egyptians probably made some incredible mechanical discoveries during the building of those pyramids that we only rediscovered 5000 years ago because that knowledge was lost with its architects. Sounds like 40k's STCs, lol

>>11134191
>You can't even find evidence aliens exist

UFOs exist, and so does the Wow Signal.

>much less that they are immortal.

It’s a triviality to assume that technological progress will allow immortality.

>>11134235
>then they could easily achieve tasks which would take us millions of years.
They would need millions of years to achieve those tasks being old doesn't make you faster.

>>11134240
>It's unidentified so it must be ayys
>>>/x/

>It’s a triviality to assume
Yeah it is really easy to assume whatever you want with no evidence.

>>11134247
>It's unidentified so it must be ayys

Alternatively, it’s humans who have technology comparable to magic. Your choice which, I suppose.

>>11134234
No, intelligence is related to cooperation. Intelligence is partly about understanding what expected value is vs the possible gains that you can get (e.g how worth playing the lottery is). Screwing people over is usually high gain, but it's so high risk that the expected value can be negative.

Being nice yields to longer term results, doesn't cost nothing (so your expected value is at least zero), and could yield something.

But cooperation can be limited to certain sub-groups. You cooperate with your colleagues, you don't cooperate with the fucking concurrent company.

But humans do. We are nice to fucking everybody, from lions to cats to whatever shit WHEN WE CAN BE.

There could be a group that just says "fuck it, you're not worth helping, it's likely you would screw us over in the long term" and just decides to fuck up every civilization they find because of their way of thinking.

>>11134242
Trust me, you can't believe how different the behavior humans could be if our lifespan was just triple what it is today.

We would actually fucking worry about the environment, for instance.

>>11134250
Prove that it's not normal aircraft seen by morons?

>>11134251
You once again operate on the assumption of a choice. If a civilization travels around the universe searching for resources, then it's likely that they aren't in a position to negotiate. It's either exterminate the other race, or die themselves. If we were forced to leave earth due to have run out of resource, you, again, can bet your ass we wouldn't ask twice but simply nuke the foreign species. The only we reason we CAN BE NICE right now is because we are left with a choice. Odds are that at some point in the distant future we won't be left with one.

>>11131648
Radio signals are awful for interstellar communication
>They lose their information after 1 light year
>They fade quickly
>And you're pumping shit loads of energy into them
Also, interstellar distances are massive
It takes radio waves 500 years to travel 500 lightyears, so any civilization that looked directly at us would be seeing the late middle ages at that distance, assuming they even knew we were there

>TL;DR
Radio sucks as communication, it's too far and we wouldn't know if they were signals due to information loss

>>11134251
>No, intelligence is related to cooperation.
No, it all has to do with morality (being good). Cooperation is only one aspect of it.
You cooperate with your colleagues, you don't cooperate with the fucking concurrent company. Fair enough. But you're all part of the larger group, in fact the whole universe. You may not cooperate with a concurrent company, but you don't kill them, as that would have consequences for you when people find out.

And this is without going into the whole topic of consciousness.

>>11134258
>Trust me

>>11134263
If you can name a “normal aircraft” that can withstand thousands of Gs, please do so.

>>11133854
You don't need tech like this to know the contents of a planets atmosphere, spectral analysis does that already.

>>11134258
I think the point isn't that it couldn't be done. Hell automate the process with super advanced AI, the problem is how wide the net you are casting is, and even if you commit to starting over at the beginning every time you finish, you're more likely to miss developing species than you are to find the, because just from out own observations we can tell that the galaxy isn't teeming with interstellar civilizations.
If you were an advanced civilization, and wanted to get people's attention, it would be easier to build big structures in orbit around stars that block portions of the stars light in regular patterns would be a better way to signal to any civilization advanced enough to survey stellar populations that there are other advanced life forms in the galaxy.

>>11134326
Can you prove that there are UFOs that made 1000 G maneuvers?

>>11134277
EM waves are they only way to communicate long distance. Unless you assume unknown physics but then you can assume anything.

>>11134397
That's the entire point, the only way to communicate is a terrible waste of energy and time.

>>11134358
That’s what they did on radar, dropping from LEO during the Nimitz UFO encounter.

>>11134403
Waste? Discovering and talking to aliens would be surely in top 5 of big deals.

>>11134410
Ok, show me the radar records.

>>11134415
You only think that because you imagine the aliens actually being on earth shaking hands with the president rather than us sending a signal and 100s of years later getting a vague signal back after we forgot about the first signal.

>>11131648
SETI is too focused on a part of the EM spectrum most civilizations aren't likely to utilize for powerful communications for a very long period of time in their history. There's also the likelihood that while intelligent life is not impossible it is still rare enough that rarely more than one such civilization occupies a galaxy at any given time.

>>11134060
We know virtually nothing about egypt or the pyramids. Just this decade we suddenly discovered that the Saharan desert was a rainforst a mere 5000 years ago and that is accounted for most of the biggest lakes to have ever existed. They were in the middle of what is one big sandbox now. People also started to question the age of the monuments found throughout egypt. The claim for the Sphinx' age to be 5000 years has become a very controversial one to make. Maybe the egyptians didn't even build the pyramids but it was some ancient civilization never even considered before? Sand dunes are tens to meters high. Who knows what the hell is hidden under them?

Same shit happened in Mexico by the way. They scanned the forests, using satelites, radars and drones and found hundreds of pyramids and ancient structures burried under the forests. There's nothing /x/ about this.

https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/green-sahara-african-humid-periods-paced-by-82884405/

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2018/02/maya-laser-lidar-guatemala-pacunam/

>>11134338
From what I understand, that telescope would allow we to actually see an exoplanet. For all the 40 seconds it's in the lens' focal plane.

The main drawback is it needs to sit at a distance of 2200 AU from the sun.

>>11134415
"Talking to aliens"

SETI had been going for 60 years or so. Any signal that we find now will be at least 60 light years out. There fore any querie and response had a minimum turnaround of 120 years.

Difficult to have a coherent conversation if the people your talking to die after each exchange.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if any advanced civilization out there has had it's citizen vote down the idea of spending money and resources trying to contact alien civilzations instead of spending that money and resources on their own planet to solve their own problems. That's what happens here, after all. Space programs end up being political tools, not scientific tools, and the average person thinks shooting rockets out into even their own solar system is a waste of billions of dollars that could be spent in any number of other ways, like solving homelessness or poverty. Of course I find that to be terribly short-sighted, but the average person is very short-sighted, too.

>>11132291
But what if you had to detect a signal as small as ours?

>>11135174
Hello world, this is Xenob from Phlempflac. How are you?

Hey Xenob, this is Bob from Earth. We're so thrilled to hear from you! You should come over for a visit.

Hi Bob, I'm great! It's nice to finally know we're not alone out here. What's earth like?

Hello Xenob, this is Kim Chu. Earth is glorious the great people's republic has made it so.

Hey Kim Chu, that's nice to hear Phempflac is nice too. We've got some really great methane pools. What would you recommend I see on Earth? Also, how is Bob doing? I haven't heard back from him.

Greetings Xenob, this is Patel. My condolences unfortunately Bob is dead. I am most glad to hear you have nice methane pools. We should set up a trading agreement. Our spices are so desirable several wars have been fought for them.

Oh ah, hi Patel. I'm so sorry to hear Bob is dead. Thank you for the generous offer of the spices but I would rather avoid any possessions that might lead to conflict.Is everything okay, Kim hasn't responded?

Hola Xenob, this is Alejandro. Everything is fine we have socialized healthcare now. Kim and Patel are also dead though.

Hi Alejandro, I'm so sorry to hear that. Is there any thing I can do to help? Everyone seems to be dying.

Greetings Xenob, I am Mugabe a recently deposed prince. I am very wealthy but for some inexplicable reason do not have access to my funds. If you will send me the small sum of one million money's I will use it to gain acces and then make you quite rich.

>>11133748
nigga there is alien life inside our solar system and i have proof

>>11133951
what is moving around?

>>11134097
they also kill all contactors in a matter of minutes. do you really think john lennon, jfk, hitler, gadaffi, caesar were all ordinary humans?(protip: they're xenos)

>>11135230
Most underrated post

>>11135236


i wonder if commercial FM is going to be the better part of our cosmic legacy. what else do we broadcast into space unencrypted 24/7? probably a lot but just think for a moment how embarrassing it'll be if there actually are aliens and they have to listen to our shitty pop music for 1000 years.

i wonder if commercial FM is going to be the better part of our cosmic legacy. what else do we broadcast into space unencrypted 24/7? probably a lot but just think for a moment how embarrassing it'll be if there actually are aliens and they have to listen to our shitty pop music for 1000 years.

>>11132662
There's an air in space museum. (Sorry I arrived late)

>>11135260
>alien SETI receives miraculously strong signal
>excitement and fear quickly spreads across their solar system, scientists rush to decode the signal
>at last their entire race gathers to hear the announcement
>speaker crackles-
PARTY ROCKERS IN THE HOUSE TONIGHT

>>11133236
/thread

If we lived closer to the galactic core, things may be more exciting.

>>11135284
You probably wouldn't exist. A lot more stellar collisions and the smbh at the galactic core acting up.

>>11135284
Or lived longer

>>11133487
>quantum communication.
Impossible. Quantum entanglement is still bound by the speed of light for anyone trying to observe it

>>11133627
The signal would have to be directly beamed at us for Earth to have a chance at seeing it.
Even if the galaxy is full of super advanced life, they still would have to detect our tiny radio bubble before returning a signal.

>>11133741
>What are the attenuation levels in fucking space
1 over the square of distance

>>11133834
you're going to eat your words when the next gen of telescopes comes online

>>11131648
Because life outside of earth is so unimaginably different that we don't see it, because it isn't what we're looking for. Likewise, to them we are so unlike life that if they do see us, we simply don't register. They can't even understand our communications anyway.

>>11135734

Speed of light is a social construct.

>>11131648
we are too small and insignificant compared to the scale of our Galaxy, not to mention the scale of the universe. We send signals only around 200 light years around us and the Millky Way is around 100.000 light-years , that's nothing, It's like being in the desert and shouting and no one comes because no one hears you. Even if somebody hear us, will ignore us like you ignore an ant.

>>11135264
>scientists get the first confirmed message from ayys
>"Send more Chuck Berry"

>>11134177
>The second we realized we could have food on the spot, we stopped hunting. We don't take as much pleasure in it as we would like.
You do realizes that recreational hunting is a multibillion dollar industry in just the USA with tens of millions of enthusiastic participants

>>11133748

How would we see an unmanned probe even if it was in our solar system?

>>11133802

I despise all the probe tards. Especially self replicating. Just because something does not break the laws of physics it does not mean its actually achievable on an engineering level.

It would be like an ant colony putting out pheromone sniffers for 8 months (a few generations) on their mound then concluding there was no other intelligent life on earth because nobody is sending them the binary math pheromone signals they are looking for. Meanwhile humans are splitting the atom just miles away...

what would make you think any actual intelligent species would be at all interested in anything we are doing or seek us out?

"oh look those apes are shooting each other with projectile weapons over land/oil claims, how fascinating let's wast a shitload of time sending them messages so we can ask them what they think about kim kardashian's new outfit"

>>11136677
>with tens of millions of enthusiastic participants
Reaching a bit here, aren't we?

>>11136723
no

>>11136678

We see them in our own atmosphere all the time.

Thing is: We ignore them because we have the arrogance to state that nothing can visit us from interstellar distances because our current understanding of physics tells us it's impossible.

>>11136728
I'm playing devils advocate here, but most hunters hold multiple tags and licenses for different species/multiples of a species. You need a tag for every animal you kill unless it's a pest animal like coyotes.

10 million still seems reasonable though.

>>11136755
bro it was a comment about someone saying humans stopped hunting, and I pointed out fat suburban faggots by the million waste their weekends killing animals for fun, then I show you nearly 40 million hunting permits were given just 2 years ago (this does not include varmint hunting and pest hunting for which no license is needed)

there is no "devil's advocate" needed to show humans did not "give up" hunting the moment they could, to the converse there are multiple stores in every city of just the USA open to selling weapons to hunting hobbyists, it's a multibillion dollar industry

hunting has to be regulated in the USA because fuking hobbyists could wipe out entire species if not restricted

>>11136713
This. Meanwhile humans actually think they would be interesting to aliens and are the center of the universe.

>>11136772

generally you'll use far fewer tags than you buy. that's why they ask that hunters report their kills, because the number of tags sold would be a ridiculous overestimation of game actually harvested.

the fur trade isn't a big thing anymore either, so there's less monetary incentive to hunt certain animals. i don't disagree that hunting should be regulated but to call it inhumane or environmentally irresponsible is not fair

>>11136772
And I was trying to point out that 40million tags is not 40 million hunters.

10 million would probably be on the higher end of the scale. In a nation of 360 million people that really isn't a huge number. A good 95% of humans do not hunt.

>>11136807
>>11136807
you are right humans gave up hunting as soon as they could, the tens of millions of hunting licenses issued every year (to say nothing of those who travel the world to hunt) show perfectly how nobody hunts anymore

>>11136824
if we didn't limit humans to just tens of millions of tags in the USA every year fat recreation hobbiest hunters would have erased whole species from exiatnance

>>11136829
>erased whole species from exsistence
In my State we have such a huge overpopulation of deer that they stopped putting restrictions on how many tags a hunter can purchase and they STILL cant cull enough of them to make a difference. And I live in a state with a deep hunting culture and one of the highest percentages of hunters in the country.

Anyone who lives in a state with lots of deer knows they are fucking pests that breed out of control and fuck up property. Fuck deer niggers, hunters are doing a public service. Licenses and tags only mean shit for endangered big game species like bear and wolf.

>>11136841
only because of regulations, look at history deer would have been wiped from the usa decades ago without them

>>11136845
>decades ago

because of, according to wikipedia "commercial exploitation and unregulated hunting", but i think "commercial exploitation" probably had a lot more to do with it.

they made it illegal to sell venison commercially, and that is what made deer populations recover. the number of people who would buy it off the shelf is probably far greater than the number of people willing to get up at 4:30 am and sit in the snow and wind on a cold november morning.

>>11136886
cont.

and this is actually a perfect example of that other anon's point. it wasn't recreational hunting, it was consumers.

>>11136886
Deer specifically have made a great comeback in a lot of the USA. Waterfowl and others are not doing as well.

however the original point made that i was responding to was about humans giving up hunting "when they could" and I don't think the fact it's a multibillion dollar industry in the USA and tens of millions of licenses/permits are issued so people can kill animals for fun helps that argument

and again this is in a country where meat is readily for sale everywhere and there is no actual need to do this at all

>>11136890
>recreational hunting
barely even a thing, amirite?

>>11136898
>however the original point made that i was responding to was about humans giving up hunting "when they could"

most hunters i know are not suburbanites, and i doubt it's a hobby most people pick up in adulthood.

hunting and using wild game to supplement store bought food is arguably a healthy lifestyle choice, since wild game is generally leaner and more nutritious. also more ethical in my opinion.

>>11136912
good point you are right humans gave up hunting as soon as they could

>>11136752
Stating they are from interstellar space is also arogance to aeronautics engeneering.

>>11136886
>that is what made deer populations recover.
Its because deer are a nuisance when you remove their natural predators. Even if no one wanted to eat their meat, get their fur, or mount their antlers people would still be hunting them as a matter of conservation.

>>11133271
Not if we meet them and colonize them first (assuming they´re less technologically developed than us). If they meet us, then yes we´re fucked

>>11137448
>Stating they are from interstellar space is also arogance to aeronautics engeneering.

How so?

>>11134918
>We don´t have enough information, so aliens
This is how retarded you sound, please excuse yourself to some board more suited to your intelligence like /lit/ or /x/

>>11134105
>implying aliens would be any different

>>11137725
>implying they wouldn't

>>11137733
>implying the most advanced species in a planet wouldn´t have aggressive tendencies

>>11137743
also
> inb4 "implying they would"

>>11137753
good, you may continue this discussion with yourself at this level.

>>11131648
Why would we pick up anything? Why do people believe we are not the only living sentient beings in the universe? The only beings aside from us to physically exist are animals.

>>11137819
and animals on other planets can't exist? derp

>>11131648
Pick up what, retard? There's no one else out there.

>>11137710
Nobody claimed for it to have been aliens you illiterate nigger. They still aren't explainable and likely weren't even build by the egyptians. The point is that pretending for building process of the pyramids we can explain is retarded. Text formating should make it very obvious multiple people are involved in this conversation.

>>11137826
So far, earth is the only planet in our immediate vicinity to have the right circumstances for life. And if animals existed on other planets, how would they communicate with our signals, assuming they aren't sentient?

>>11137842
>So far, earth is the only planet in our immediate vicinity to have the right circumstances for life.

We don’t know what the circumstances for life are, so that’s baseless.

> And if animals existed on other planets

Literally impossible. “Animalia” is a clade and clades can never spring up twice.

>>11137851
>We don’t know what the circumstances for life are, so that’s baseless.
The Miller–Urey experiment provides a basic roadmap for making the building blocks of life.

Literally impossible. “Animalia” is a clade and clades can never spring up twice.
Would domains of life be more probable on another planet?

>>11137842
most animals in the universe, judging from earth, are not intelligent. i also think that someone attempting to communicate using radio waves in the universe is very rare. or signals are being blocked

>>11131648
Space is vast, to vast for our retarded tiny instruments

>>11137906
>most animals in the universe, judging from earth, are not intelligent.
How can you judge that animals from the earth are not very intelligent if they are the only baseline for intelligence?

> i also think that someone attempting to communicate using radio waves in the universe is very rare
Aren't gamma waves and x rays common in space. And how could you tell if something intelligent is blocking communication?

>>11137921
we have millions of species on earth but only 1 semi-intelligent one

>Aren't gamma waves and x rays common in space.
sure but not as communication.

>And how could you tell if something intelligent is blocking communication?
i dont know. all i know is there are paradoxes and we are probably way less intelligent than we think
i'm basing it on this partly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgZE8s0hBRQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaLvp-BkqAo

>>11137921
Brains of intelligent species are generally more complex. It is likely that such complexity generally takes time to arise. Therefore we can expect the vast majority of alien life (neglecting technological disaster) to not be intelligent.

>>11137976
>we have millions of species on earth but only 1 semi-intelligent one
We're basing the whole concept of intelligence off of the contrast between the 1 semi intelligent species and the average species. What are factors associated with intelligence?

>sure but not as communication.
If radio waves occur in space as well, it could be argued that the sounds we hear from the intercepted waves aren't a result of communication either. How could you gauge what is deliberate communication, and what is static?

>i dont know. all i know is there are paradoxes and we are probably way less intelligent than we think i'm basing it on this partly:
If humans aren't as intelligent as we think, this could easily be dismissed as a ruse or a mass hallucination. Just because multiple people perceive something a certain way doesn't mean that's an indicator of the reality.

>>11131648
Who says we haven't?

>>11137874
>basic building blocks of life
The problem is that no lab or experiment has ever been able to show how proteins and hydrocarbons become simple cells. We have a decent idea of how life got started on Earth but true abiogenesis is beyond our current understanding.

>>11137976
>only one semi intelligent one
Dolphins, certain cephalopods, certain types of raptor, and a handful of other primates, are all fairly close to human brain power, in fact dolphins may actually be MORE intelligent than humans. The problem is that humans are the only species forced to use tools for survival, whereas those other species use tools only occasionally.

>>11138351
We're also the only ones who teach our fellow beings, particularly our descendants, how to make and use said tools.

>>11135230

>>11138354
Dolphins teach their children how to use rudimentary tools (dropping rocks on shells and the like) but that's pretty debatable. Dolphins are easily intelligent enough to use tools but they lack thumbs and they have very little evolutionary pressure to make other tools. Chimps are that way as well. They make simple wooden tools and occasional make use of fire, but there isn't a strong evolutionary pressure for them to do so. Other intelligent Earth species are smart enough to make and use tools but they have no evolutionary pressure to do so.

In my mind that's what separates homo group primates from other intelligent species. Our lack of hair among other things makes it impossible for us to survive without tools. We HAVE to use tools or we will go extinct. No other intelligent Earth species has that pressure.

>>11138782
I think tool use is overestimated as a lynch pin. Its the ability to build on the past and learn from successive generations that makes true intelligence feasible. No species of mere animal on Earth has created civilization.

>>11131648
Because the ayys have earth under quarantine so we can develop as a species without outside influence.

>>11134326
>thousands of Gs

>>11136713
Why are humans interested by ant colony?

>>11134691
then what is an hypothetical advanced alien race to communicate with?
this is what we know and is our best shot

>>11138786
Ants arguably have a civilization even if they aren't thought of as intelligent. Ants can practise agriculture, they cultivate certain fungi and raise aphids. They build massive superstructures over many generations. An ant colony scaled to size would be as large as a human city. Ants have societal roles. They can wage coordinated war on enemies and other colonies. We have even observed ant "empires" of several cooperating colonies and trade of food/resources between rival colonies.

We like to deride ants but in some ways they are the closest species to us.

And depending on how loose you define civilization chimpanzees and bonobos are both at a level that would almost be considered tribal. Chimps in particular have complex social orders, a rudimentary language, basic tool use, and they teach their children.

I think civilization is probably an easier leap than constant tool use, personally.

>>11138842
Ant colonies are better thought of as a single organism, in my opinion. Their functional hierarchies have a lot in common with cell specializations.

Chimps and Bonobos haven't taken the step of building on what they learn from their parents, which prevents them from being more than smart animals.

>>11138842
I also think there are a bunch of cool animals and they can do many things that we can't even.
You can say dolphins are smart enough to think about how the universe works and whatnot, but in the end, humans are the only species on earth to go far beyond every other species because of our intelligence. No other animal really stands a chance to us. Our biggest threat may be bacteria or viruses, but we will probably solve that problem before long too. A great intelligence is so ridiculously superior to all the other evolutionary strategies.

>>11131648
>Why haven't we picked up anything yet?
SETI is not searching for alien civilisations, in fact it's searching for alien radio astronomers. There may many alien civilisations. But they are just not putting much effort into radio astronomy.

>>11140048
This. Astronomers use telescopes, which, as we all know, blast signals out into the universe. SETI is trying to look at their telescopes while they look at our telescopes, so we can talk by putting signs behind our telescopes. Space telescopes work better because you can't talk through clouds. Aliens telescoped us in 77 but we moved our telescope.

universe-people.com

>>11134146
literally just the ravings of some random dude, not historical fact

>>11135174
Assuming they're like us, just confirmation that another civilization is out there would be worth significant investment.

>>11135325
>because living closer means living too close.

>>11133734
Honestly that’s a really good explanation. Thanks milbro.

>>11133834
>Simplest explanation is the most probable.
That's literal conjecture, idiot.

>>11131959
based

>>11132062
>god is malevolent
fucking brainlet

>>11132404
or c being constant is an actual natural law and in the teeny little dot that is our signal presence noone is out there or the signals are too weak to be distinguished from background radiation.
same thing the other way. For a civilization for us to see it has to exist very close to us AND at the exactly right timespan.
Even with a high density of populations like ours throughout the universe, it is ridiculously unlikely for one to be close enough spacially and temporally for us to see. Like others said, space is mindboggingly huge.

>>11133648
even then they have to know we are here