/sci/ - Science & Math

That's actually the sad truth I think.

>>11123464
True. You'll see "lol lets just plant more trees" as a gut band-aid reaction to knowing we're fucked too, when in reality our emissions far outclass any amount that the current trees on Earth could hold.

Ultimately, "fighting" global warming is a rhetoric spewed by people in order to keep some semblance of society alive while they can build the bunkers and stockpile the food.

I'm not some denialist or anything but I didn't know things were that bad. Is human society actually going to break down within 100 years?

become a fan of increasing entropy, disorder and chaos is what i say
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egRgweL12Uc

>>11123480
More like 10 years really.

>>11123464
just check out this article and the "very well educated" commenters criticizing it if you feel like flushing whatever spec of hope you have left down the crapper...

https://theconversation.com/these-celebrities-cause-10-000-times-more-carbon-emissions-from-flying-than-the-average-person-123886

>>11123497
Nah, things are bad, but they're not THAT bad. I personally think it's more around 15 years give or take, there'll be huge pushback around 2030 to resist the negative effects, but once we realize it's not going away we'll just sort of peter out.

>>11123480
maybe, but if it happens it'll have little to do with climate change everything to do with resource depletion. that's something the carbon taxation perpetual growth mongers just cant bring themselves to believe.

>>11123464
>No country has ever managed to reduce its CO2 emissions
Plenty of countries did so. China is planning to reach negative trend in the next decade.

The point is collective action, where even the small countries act responsibly to have at least moral leverage against those who don´t act responsibly. Take for example US, those goblins are pumping it way above EU28, despite having 60% of population.

>>11123464
>What's the point trying to fight global warming?
A better future for humanity.
>No country has ever managed to reduce its CO2 emissions.
Your graph says otherwise.

>>11123556
>China is planning to reach negative trend in the next decade.
And how do they plan to do it?
The only time CO2 emissions actually decreased was in 2009...when the economy also went to shit. If you reduce your CO2 emissions, your economic growth will also fall.

>>11123532
What do you mean? For instance we have limited years left in our aquifers, after they're gone we'll be beholden to drought, thus causing food shortages, mass die offs, ect. You know what causes droughts? Global warming. It's just like losing access to power for climate controlled houses, we'll be vulnerable to heatwaves, what causes heatwaves? Global warming.

Resource depletion is only the thing that will weaken us. Global warming will be the killing blow.

>>11123556
>China is planning to reach negative trend in the next decade.

*looks at OPs graph* yep seems like a good start

also when has moral leverage meant anything in international conflicts...if it's prosperous to defect in the scenario of "everyone agrees to cut co2 emissions", a country will do it. that's why runaway scenarios seem inevitable to me

>>11123556

Only an jealous European would look at that graph and say “it’s le mutts fault”

>>11123464
>no country has ever managed to reduce its CO2 emissions
Not according to your graph, retard.

>>11123570
oh well in that case lets make tonnes of money and triple our population in 80 years. a carbon tax is certainly all we need to save us.

>>11123464
the problem is global warming or resource depletion. the problem is the explosion in the population of literal psychopathic consumers. I hope they enjoy consuming the toxic waste and the nuclear warheads.

>>11123619
By that you mean that only Europeans are capable of capable of calculating the space below graph?

>>11123464 (OP)
the problem isnt global warming or resource depletion. the problem is the explosion in the population of literal psychopathic insatiable consumers. I hope they enjoy consuming the toxic waste and the nuclear warheads.

>>11123678
OPs point is that EU reduced emissions by importing goods from China.

Care to address this point?

>>11123569
>And how do they plan to do it?
Who knows, but the UN seems optimistic. The communist party has lot of authority and if it says something, that something will happen regardles of what their citizens or the market want.

>>11123581
>if it's prosperous to defect in the scenario of "everyone agrees to cut co2 emissions", a country will do it
Then it can´t be made prosperous. The more states form a coalition along the lines of limiting emissions, the stronger the enforcement mechanism could be.

>>11123464
The point is to save as many people and as much biodiversity as possible, but it likely will just be a positive feedback spiral into mass extinction. I just found out about Blue Ocean Events and I reckon we are completely fucked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo3cznpfIpA

>>11123619
Those retards are responsible for selling their entire industrial base to china so they wouldn't have to pay their countymen a living wage. They literally caused this whole thing.

>>11123659
That's mostly because the US and Europe moved their factories in China retard.

>>11123464
There goes your modern scientism.
Im not even a genius and i could reduce that graph by a LOT

>>11124560
Yeah I could too, by killing half of the world population. Do you have a genius plan or is it just wishful thinking? How can you reduce CO2 emissions without destroying the world economy?

>>11123464
>Europe actually did something
That's what happened and if even Europe can do it everybody else can do it better, Especially since now we got solar power and most of the world is more sunny then Europe.

>>11123518
>2030
yeah that's 10 years + 7 weeks

>>11124584
Even if our energy was low carbon, global warming would continue. France mostly uses nuclear to produce its energy. That's great, very low carbon footprint. It still does nothing against transports, food production, importations from China etc.

>>11124584
>more sunny
this
Madrid is at same latitude as New York.

>>11123464
CO2 is good.
Plants need it to live.

>>11124116

lmao europe gets majority of its shit from germany, fucking amerimutt.

>>11124589

if you're not a vegan you really need to shut your fucking mouth about climate change. idgaf about le animal suffering etc but the fact is that animal products cause chronic diseases in humans and its fucking our planet up clearing land for fucking cows to graze and giving them 60% of our grain.

>>11124640
I'm only vegetarian, will probably go vegan soon.

>>11124599
>Plants need it
as also water and non-excessive heat and no fires
retard

>>11123464
I am aware of only one country that manages to be carbon neutral: Bhutan. But 60% of it is covered in forest and it has no industry, so I doubt any other country can copy it.

>>11124599
Why do you even post on a scientific board?

>>11124716
Co2 has increased precipitation, wild fires have no increased.

>>11123464
Their goal is communism and they don't ever get tired of even the most retarded lies. Read based Ted, it's nothing but leftists' eternal rage against everything that works, as it shows them their own impotence.

>>11125845
>Their goal is communism
I don't know if communism is the answer. But capitalism is sure going to ruin the planet.

>>11126006
communism would too.
there is nothing in communism that doesn't encourage consumerism and economic growth.
the guy you're responding to is literally a retard that basically throws everything he hates in the same "commie" basket.

Fuck nature. I won't be happy until the last tree is cut down, and we rule an empire of steel and concrete.

>>11123464
>No country has ever managed to reduce its CO2 emissions.
We will one way or another:
We'll either voluntarily clean up our shit and save ourselves,
*or*
We'll create our own extinction-level event, and either kill ourselves off completely, or find our numbers reduced to the point where we won't even be capable of contributing to the problem anymore.
It's as simple as that.

Oh my god, what are we going to do about these hot temperatures in Europe? The summers are literally boiling here

>>11124716
>CO2 increases fires

>>11126006
you might want to take a look at soviet industry. You don't find anything dirtier than that.

>>11123464
Climate change is the best thing to happen to this planet and we need a shit ton more of it or we are well and truly fucked. As you can see from our historical data, the vast majority of this planets time has been spent at temperatures far higher then currently and the Earth was teeming with life during these epochs. The current natural cycle we are in is an 11k year oscillation between the temps we are at currently and an ice age. If we hit an ice age, glaciers will be south of Kansas city, the Earth will lose 97% of its arable land, leading to a guaranteed mass die off and possibly even the extinction of our species. (one ice age reduced humanities numbers to sub 10k). Therefore we need to do everything in our power to ensure that we break the current natural cycle returing to one of the previous equilibrium cycles thus ensuring our species continued expansion and growth. Further warming the Earth will open the north west passage, double the amount of arable land and even open a whole new continent of untapped resources (antarica) if we warm enough!

Funnily enough climate change alarmist have the exact same beliefs as the Amish. They both believe the Earth was perfect in the mid 1800's and any change therefrom is evil and will lead to our doom. We should be taxing all the renewable energy sources and subsidizing CO2, CH4, and other green house gas emissions.

>>11126163
Oh, okay.
What if all that destroys our civilization and kills most of us off? Just the 'cost of doing business'?

>>11126172
Global warming won't doom our societies or any such nonsense the environmentalist preach, however their plan to stop it is literally genocide: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-05/scientists-call-for-population-control-in-mass-climate-alarm.. Further this would not be the first genocide that the religion of environmentalism is responsible for: see malria. We had deaths in the world down to single digits then the fucking environmentalists fucked up the plan and have caused tens of millions to die (just shy of 100 million as of this year), all for a few thousand fucking birds.

Funnily enough climate scientists and geoengineers espoused exactly what I said, that we need to warm the earth or we are doomed, but as it turns out people are really bad about dealing with and even thinking about problems which occur on a geologic timescale. 10k years is longer than recorded history, so who the fuck is going to care enough to devote time and money to solving this problem, and this is exactly the same problem we have with the yellowstone supervolcano. We know it will go off within 500k years, but again who is going to get funding to tackle a problem so distant in the future. How does one even start going about building and sustaining a public endeavor spanning millennia?

Finally, with warming, most warming occurs at the poles, which means the areas at the poles will experience far greater rises in temperature than the rest of the world. What this means is that a 2 degree earth warming from now, thaws all the permafrost in siberia, greenland, canada and alaska. Think of all the currently unecomonically exploitable resources this would unlock. Think of all the new land fit for human development we would gain. BTW: Im a atmospheric chemist, and in chemistry we are taught the only constant in the universe is change, and "Adapt or Die Motherfucker" -charles darwin (I could be missing the exact phrasing of his statement but the meaning is the same.)

>>11126092
LOL what the fuck that's freezing cold, no wonder euros are such pussies, it's like 40 here in america and snowing I guess these people are used to that all the time

>>11126092
lol, is this map really saying that the peaks of the Alps and Appenines are at 34C. lol. Someone is smearing their data to cover all the holes in their measurement set to make it look way worse than it is.

if it was that bad why is dubai making islands at sea level?

you think the owners of 20 billion dollars worth of real estate are just that dumb? ok racist

Whole thread is dumb. We need more co2 for biodiversity and plant life growth. Let China has consentrated dose of co2 on their brainlet citizens while rest of the world benefits.

>>11123464
Excellent. This unnatural lifestyle we're living was never meant to exist it's about time it all comes crumbling down.

>>11126333
yes they are, all rich people are boomers

>>11123464
The primary purpose of climate change rhetoric is to make Europe more submissive. The only aspect of the Paris Climate Agreement of any importance was for Europe to reduce oil imports.

The purpose of the Iraq war was also to have greater control of the oil market. Sanctions also serve the same purpose.

Saudi Aramco and Exxon Mobil run the world. In a free market, the price of oil wouldn't have bottomed out in 2015. It would've kept falling.

More to the point, reducing oil imports raises the price of oil. Hence climate change rhetoric.

>>11126391
>More to the point, reducing oil imports raises the price of oil.

exactly why the Qatari oil princes fund Al Jazeera to promote alarmism

>>11126193
>their plan to stop it is literally genocide: Bloomberg
Nothing in your dumb source actually says that.

>>11126409
What are the names of some of the Qatari oil princes?

The killing of the earth is being done on purpose, many thousands of years ago they planted the book of revelations to psychologically Prime us for accepting our own doom.
Just like they did on Mars.
There have been many technologies that are eco friendly that have been suppressed like stanley Meyer, this is all on purpose.
Elon musk is a fake deisgned to make the current generation feel like theres progress. Theres already anti gravity discovered by the Nazis.
They're killing europeans because theyre smart enough to revert this catastrophy.
Greta thunberg is designed to make people be agitated at helping the environment.
Any and all environmental activism is false activism made to make the boiling frog in the water feel cooler than he is.

The end goal is the desertification of earth, this is a complex goal which requires a leading cohort of willing human idiots to do their bidding.

Smart phones and screens are central in distracting humans and helping them ignore the suffering going on around them.

>>11126418
>Nothing in your dumb source actually says that the environmentalists want to commit genocide.
>Article states: But they go one step further, into the politically fraught territory of population control. It “must be stabilized—and, ideally, gradually reduced—within a framework that ensures social integrity,” they write.
>Want to reduce the worlds population
>reduce the population

Be honest: you didn't even bother to search the article at all.

>>11126683
You don't seem to know what the word genocide means.

>>11126692
>According to websters: Genocide: 1)the deliberate killing of a large group of people
Reducing the entire worlds population will require the deaths of millions. In fact, given the current population growth rate of 1.08% the environmentalists would have to kill more than 77million people a year in order to just maintain the current population level. This would far out strip any genocide that has ever been committed in history.

>>11126748
Imagine strawmanning this hard.
They want better family planning education and contraceptives to go to places with booming populations. Only an idiot thinks murder is a solution to increased population.

>>11126754
just /pol/tards projecting ignore him

>>11126333
UAE don't know what the fuck they're doing. They're like Tesla where they do shit that sounds positive PR then do fuck all.

Man, this thread is depressing. It was a mistake going to /sci/

>>11126333
>muh islands are great I didn't get ripped off
>I must be so smart I got billions of dollars
>If you disagree you must be racist

Fucking retarded sand nigger.

>>11126775
What does that board have to do with this you obsessed fag?

>>11124579
>without destroying the world economy
according modern economists, all manner of crime short of outright murder is good for the economy, and what's good for the economy is good for you

>>11126754
>>11126775
lol, you seem to think that abortion isnt murder. But even before starting that debate which in /sci/ you'd surely lose, lets start with the real world example of what these scientists suggest the One Child Policy in China. It not only A) failed to stop the population growth, but also B) killed tens of millions of people. as well as C) it is flat out stated its a genocide by genocidewatch! http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/OCP_Factsheet_2012.pdf and Finally to take the cake D) even the UN calls strict population controls genocide.U.N. Comm. On the Rights of the Child, Consideration of reports submitted by States parties under article 44, Concluding observations: Myanmar, January 16–February 3, 2012, U.N.Doc. CRC/C/MMR/CO/3-4; CRC, 59th Sess. (March 14, 2012).

There is no way to reduce the population of the entire world short of mass murder, and you are morons if you really think otherwise. Hence these 11k scientists and all their environmentalists pals are calling for genocide, and you idiots are cheering them on.

>>11126847
>I'm not strawmanning I'm just saying that these scientists are advocating for a one child policy like china and that's what terrible monsters do.

>>11126787
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YsA3PK8bQd8

Collapse is inevitable at this point. You won't live to 80 years. In fact, most of us are going to die in about 10-20 years.

>>11126160
That's why I don't advocate for communism. But I also think capitalism is to be blamed for the state of the planet.

>>11126856
>When you've got nothing, claim they are straw manning and post a meme
The only historically proven way to reduce the population even of a single country is through mass death. If you have any proof of any other way we'd love to see it. But we all know you've got nothing.

Because you're vaunted family planning in Europe has lead to Europe's total population increasing by 1 million people per year over the last decade. Clearly growing by 1 million a year is the same to you as staying the same or getting smaller because +1000000 = 0 = -1000000 right?

>>11124589
>France mostly uses nuclear to produce its energy
*electricity
They produce 1,300TWh (380TWh final) of nuclear energy out of 3,000TWh primary (920TWh final) energy consumed, which is ~41%. Even with mass electrification of literally everything in the near future, they'd still need to nearly tripple their capacity (not gonna happen) to become completely neutral- and they are literally nuclear energy's special snowflake no one can hope to match.
The lumpen subhuman public killed nuclear for good and I'm glad they'll pay for it when the ecosystem breakdown and the social collapse happen.
>mfw probably over half of the world energy could've been from fusion/fission by now if we actually tried or cared in the 70s-90s

>>11127699
>The only historically proven way to reduce the population even of a single country is through mass death.
What about japan? What about all the advanced countries that through condoms and education have lower birth rates than natural death rates?

>>11127742
Japan's population growth only turned negative in 2015, and it remains to be seen if this will continue of if this is a momentary blip. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-population/

>What about all the advanced countries that through condoms and education have lower birth rates than natural death rates?
Where are all these countries with shrinking populations? Please show them to me. Oh that's right they don't exist.

For example Japan which has effectively no immigration is the only one of those countries that seems to actually have a declining population. Further it is not do to condoms or education. It is literally do to their culture which is very anti-sex. Couples don't get it on a lot there unlike what jav and anime would have you believe.

Family planning and education have not reduced the population in any developed country. Why should we expect them to do the same in others where the culture is to have 7-10 kids per family?

>>11124116
Europe is a net exporter, USA are a net importer.
Your country doesn't produce shit outside of cancerous entertainement and financial service these days.

>>11127751
>Family planning and education have not reduced the population in any developed country.
They have reduced the birth rate.
>Why should we expect them to do the same in others where the culture is to have 7-10 kids per family?
It clearly has worked so far.

>>11127770
>They have reduced the birth rate.
>It clearly has worked so far.
The objective is to reduce population not birth rate you dingus. Overall, pretty much every countries total population is up (short of a war like in Ukraine or Syria). Only one developed country has a currently negative population growth rate, Japan. Oh that's right, population is not only about birth rate, but also about death rate and life span. Turns out we've been greatly improving on those two metrics.

But I guess you are so retarded you cannot tell the difference between birth rates and total population. The only way that has ever been shown to REDUCE the population is through killing and death. Further abortion is murder, so all those babies being aborted are murders you're family planning is conducting, and the overall population is still GROWING.

It's fucking glorious

Imagine living the last decade of stable human society shitposting on 4chan

peak fucking ending

>>11123464
Europe is truly the best place in the world.

>>11127824
>muh abortion is murder
>"babies"
absolutely moronic

>>11126357
>>11126781
>>11126794
>REeee exxon knew what they were doing
>UAE are a bunch of oil sandniggers that dont know shit

so which is it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy

>>11127897
who are you quoting

>>11123464
>>11123467
>>11123474
>>11123480
>>11123486
>>11123497
>>11123511

Per capita chinas emissions are average in the world. Per capita they emit half of USA folk.

In the last 6 years, China's emissions have only gone up <20% compared to the 300% increase of the 10 years previous. The graph looks like china are gigantic polluting monsters, which they are, but not more than the rest of us currently.

China is not your boogeyman. Most countries are making progress, just not enough. More pressure is required. Stop giving up before you've tried anything.

>>11123464
>What's the point of going to chemotherapy? No cancers have ever gone into remission.

Now stop being retarded and learn something for once in your benighted life or get the fuck out and stop wasting space that we could be using to argue about Elon Musk and the singularity.

>>11128116
If your "chemotherapy" is basically killing millions of people, it will never be accepted and we'll just collapse.
See : >>11126988

>>11128109

The reason the US has so much more pollution than China is because they have houses and cars. The only way to stop Chinese pollution from exploding is basically to tell them that they can’t be first worlders.

>>11123474

The really annoying bit is compared to gdp how little we are putting into research for true solutions on the scale of fusion. technology is the only option unless we actually expect people to choose a drop in the quality of life, which most wont, even in the west

>>11128140
You can't tell chinks anything. They are totalitarian, sovereign people with enourmous power. One has to find a diplomatic solution with them and hope for their own initiative.

>>11126391
>More to the point, reducing oil imports raises the price of oil.
>Decreasing demand causes increasing prices
I don't think you thought this one through.

NOOOO NO THE HECKING PLANET OUR LITTLE HOME NOOOOO YOU CANT JUST DESTROY IT WHERE WILL WE GO WAAAAAA

>>11126163
This is like arguing that obesity is good because it prevents starvation. If you actually cared about preventing a glaciation then you would be advocating for fossil fuels to be saved for use thousands of years in the future. But you're not, because you're a lying shill.

>>11124589
>Even if our energy was low carbon, global warming would continue.

If we stop greenhouse gas emissions global warming will slow down and stop. If we fail and keep burning fossil fuels like mad warming will happen even faster. All coastal cities may be permanently flooded. Bad things will happen.

>>11124628
>lmao europe gets majority of its shit from germany

True, but Germany moved much of it's dirty industry to China. You can still put "made in Germany" on your car if all steel is actually from China.

>>11125824
>wild fires have no increased
not true, fires become worse and bigger every year, just ask California, Brazil or Indonesia, meanwhile there are even forest fires in Skandinavia, this never happened before.

>>11128109
>China is not your boogeyman
You can't be serious....
China has more millionaires than the US, and a faster growing number of them - millionaires which produce as much or more emissions than Americans despite living in a warmer climate.
China has put millions of Uighers in reeducation camps, a literal cultural genocide. Not to mention what's been done in Tibet and soon to be Hong Kong and Taiwan

By your asinine logic The US would be a "climate leader" (or some bullshit) if it imported 300 million literal slaves who emit nothing and live in mud huts.

Now I'm not arguing that US should do nothing about the climate problem. Quite the contrary, I'm arguing that the US should do much, much more, by ceasing all trade this tyrannical dictatorship which has literally no intention of giving any consideration whatsoever to the problem of mass extinction and climate change.

>>11128240
>If we stop greenhouse gas emissions global warming will slow down and stop

Good luck for that. I don't think people realize how vital fossil fuels actually are. Without them, it's basically the middle ages but with 7 billions people on earth.

>>11128285
That's why it would have been prudent to stop "growth" many, many years ago and is still prudent today.

It's clearly the most logical course of action until technologies can be developed which replace fossil fuels.

>>11128109
>Per capita matters
Nope. All that matters is total global generation.
It's like having a limited supply of food to survive on with a small group of people, and one severely overweight guy is eating nearly half of it. You tell him to cut the shit, and his argument is "I'm eating half the calories per kg of body weight though!". Fucking nonsensical. China is an independent actor with lots of emission. They need to cut the shit.

>>11128301
what gives an American the right to emit twice as much carbon? Do American lives inherently hold more value?

>>11128606
moving the goalposts

>>11128607
How is it moving the goalposts? There are 7 billion people on earth, we need to collectively lower emissions. People with higher emissions should lower theirs first. Does it make sense to steal food from a starving family so a rich family can eat more?

>>11128301
Just so I understand your position, if China were to split into 4 separate nations, then each nation would have half the total emissions of America, and would be completely blameless? Does this somehow make sense to you?

>>11128636
If the planet had a thousand people on it, each emitting 100x the rate of the average American, there would be no warming effect.
China's culture produced over a billion humans, which is an enormous problem. Their pop is growing still, and will continue to grow for another twenty years. Saying their per capita is half the US is taking away from the fact that as a CULTURE they are emitting far more CO2. So no, those four split nations would not be absolved if they were essentially the same culture. It wouldn't be right to apply as much pressure on each nation compared to whole China, but they as a whole culture would still carry a lot of blame.
Same goes for India. These quite wealthy countries failed to lower their population growth through uplifting all people to a high level of education and living.
The US isn't blameless either though. The per capita emissions do need to come down, as the population is already somewhat sparse geographically.

>>11128819
So as long as mini chinas 1 2 3 and 4 all start speaking English and watching Western TV they're utterly blameless in your eyes?
You also bring up an interesting point, if you can group up Chinese culture together, which is in many ways more diverse than western culture. We should also group up western culture as it all has the same origins and is today just as homogeneous as Chinese culture. When we add up all the emissions from nations of western culture, they emit significantly more CO2. So now western culture is again the problem? You realize you could avoid jumping through all these weird mental hoops if you just accepted that per capita is the only measure that matters. Human by human period.

>coastal metropolises underwater
>billions of climate refugees
>complete exhaustion of fossil fuels and rare minerals
>AI powered resource wars
>5 degree temperature increase
>mass extinctions
All this gloom and doom makes me so fucking hard. I can't wait for this entire shitshow to go up in flames. Imagine not being eternally grateful for being born in the exact right era to experience an apocalypse.

>>11127824
If the fertility rate is 2.1 across the world the population stabilizes. If it is less the population will go down. You don't need to kill anyone.

>>11128837
Yep, the planet can sustain an infinite number of people.
OR we keep reducing the allowed per capita emissions as the population keep increasing
OR we look at the decreasing birthrate in some developed country and just assume it will happen everywhere and we'll all be alright,
But DON'T give an financial incentive to keep the population levels in check. Don't do that.

>>11128301
These people are fucking insane. They want to make sure this argument remains about fairness. And they're so insane THINK what you're arguing for is that some chinaman making 1$ an hour is meant to have an even lower standard of living than the already rich western country and then come up with moronic drivel like >>11128636, failing to realize that you explicitly said global emissions and splitting the country would also do absolutely fuck all about that either.
They refuse to have an argument that's grounded in actual reality, which is obviously, blatantly, what you were making the case for. The most they will do is say "ok yeah sure even if all western countries were nuked tomorrow the emissions are too high, but more pressure will me exerted and everything will just turn out ok".
It's not like there's an actual plan whatsoever though, nor will there be. Western nations will keep bankrupting themselves with plans to try to lower their emissions, in a way that could only possibly hope to make sense in the context of an organized effort with a specific goal in mind, one that would actually work, unlike the fucking paris agreement.
So you know what will happen? You know what the future looks like? Worldwide emissions WILL keep going up, the world will quickly start getting poorer and poorer on average, in real terms, it will get warmer and crappier, and in spite of this the population will probably reach 15 billion. The ONLY way catastrophic climate change will be prevented will be some serious worldwide effort at geoengineering the planet, most likely with a bunch of undesirable side effects.
If it's not stopped, because the west wants to be the chump of the tragedy of the commons, they'll be left with absolutely nothing to fight the consequences of climate change they'll be left worse off than if they just decided to keep enriching themselves and using that money to prepare for the worse.

>>11129317
Be quiet bug breath.

>>11129327
I'm sure we'll have more than our fair share of bugs in the future.

>>11129327
10/10 response.

>>11129341
Not if you keep eating them all you weirdo.
>>11129342
You have a wing stuck in your tooth.

>>11123480
No. The planet is too cold and needs to warm up. Global warming will benefit this planet.

>>11129436
interesting opinion, could you provide some studies or expert opinion to expand on this? considering agriculture has only existed over the stable climate of the Holocene I'm pretty skeptical.

>>11129442
Agriculture cares about weather, not climate.

>>11129453
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

>>11129442
>implying I would believe one of those ugly "expert" frogs

>>11129459
Oh yes of course that's exactly right the only factor in plant growth is CO2 concentrations. And it's not like higher CO2 levels could have other detrimental effects on the plant from our perspective, like say reducing their nutrient content.

>>11129457
Climate change can't affect agriculture because climate isn't weather.

>>11129466
>da co2 will mak da minrols evaporate

>>11127897
>>REeee exxon knew what they were doing
Exxon just wants you to buy more oil. They live under the delusion that they can just wall themselves off from the worst effects of global warming.
>>UAE are a bunch of oil sandniggers that dont know shit
They don't know anything. They just receive royalties from American oil companies to bring over the tech to extract the oil they happen to live on top of and spend that money on frivolous luxuries and prestige projects. The Gulf Arabs themselves know nothing about the science and technology that makes their societies function. All of the well paid technical and managerial jobs are done by westerners and all the poorly paid service and unskilled labor jobs are done by southeast Asians and Africans.

>>11128606
>what gives an American the right to emit twice as much carbon? Do American lives inherently hold more value?
All of this talk about Chinese emissions is missing the point. All he wants to do is preserve the hegemony whites by killing non-whites.

>>11129528
Or maybe, possibly he just wants to reduce global emissions instead of just moving it around.

>>11129529
No, he just wants to blame others for the destructive behaviors that got him into this mess. If that also provides him with a plausible excuse to indulge his racism, well that's just all the better.

>>11129537

>>11128837
>So as long as mini chinas 1 2 3 and 4 all start speaking English and watching Western TV they're utterly blameless in your eyes?
Wow. Way to beat the fuck out of a straw man. How about respond to what I posted, not some shit you made up to paint me in a bad light.
>if you can group up Chinese culture together, which is in many ways more diverse than western culture. We should also group up western culture
Chinese culture has been dead since Mao very literally killed it, and you're really being retarded. I wouldn't put Taiwan in with China even though it comes from Chinese culture, because they've distinguished themselves by actually educating and providing for their people.
>You realize you could avoid jumping through all these weird mental hoops
You realize you can stop lobbing absurdities if you just accepted that China and India's population are completely out of control. At least Africa has some excuses, but China and India should have been doing better for a long time.
>per capita is the only measure that matters
No. Literally the only measure that matters is the binary "are we generating more CO2 than is being sequestered". The absolute is the only thing that's important.

>>11129537
>EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME ABOUT ANYTHING IS A WAAAAAAAACIST

cry more you pathetic retarded faggot

>>11126222
it's celsius and not muttunits, france is closing in to middle eastern levels of heat.

>>11129975
The only solution I'm hearing you repeat is 'reduce china's population" so basically exactly what this guy >>11129528 suggests.
Maybe someday you'll realize killing half a billion people just so you can continue your lifestyle of endless greed and consumption is the absolute definition of evil.

>>11129975
>The absolute is the only thing that's important.
>>11130029
>You're and evil racist and deserve to die

Triggered much?
Whatever you say buddy...

>>11125824
how stupid can you get?
https://wildfiretoday.com/2019/07/16/wildfires-above-the-arctic-circle-in-greenland-and-alaska/

>>11123464
>What's the point trying to fight global warming?
point of fighting global warming is to cuck yourself to death so more resources are left for indians and chinks, and maybe africans.

>>11130032
>i have no argument

>>11130039
>You have no argument
You're right.
just here to say I think you're a fucking lunatic

>>11130039
seriously when you respond to this>>11129975
with>>11130029

you actually come across as sort of an unhinged lunatic. maybe get yours meds changed or something

Some people aren't born cowards. I fight climate change because it's there to fight. On the off chance that I somehow actually win I plan to fight China next, then the USA.

>>11130043
great argument, are you now saying you haven't been repeating ad nausea that china needs to reduce it's population immediately? What the fuck do you think that means?

>>11130043
great argument, are you now saying you haven't been repeating ad nauseam that china needs to reduce it's population immediately? What the fuck do you think that means?

>>11130029
What the fuck is your problem? Nowhere did I suggest murdering anyone. The solution to population explosions is education and quality of life. The low per capita usage in China is mostly because a huge chunk of their population is subsistence living. The Chinese government doesn't want them to have economic and educational equality though. If they took care of this properly in the 80s instead of enacting the absurd one child policy, their population would be starkly less today.

>>11130078
>repeating ad nauseam that china needs to reduce it's population immediately
Nowhere did anyone say that. Just that you can't just look at per capita like it tells you the whole story. Population matters too, and China fucked that one all up.

>>11130102
They're birth rate is already lower than most western nations. I'm not sure what you're even trying to say at this point.

>>11130107
so given their birthrates are already lower than western nations the only possible interpretation of "population matters they need to reduce emissions" is kill all the chinks.

>>11123464
You can’t stop a nation from developing to when we don’t really need to that much anymore. Westerners forcing the rest of the world to stop their progress is morally wrong. We’ll be able to deal with the effects of climate change better because we’re more advanced while they will not. It also leads to a cycle where we have to compete with them as well. The world will change a little but as long as we focus on actual progress, and not bullshit social issues or limiting our productivity, we will better be able to handle it year by year.

>>11123464
Just plant more trees.
CO2 levels are at 400 ppm.
That number is closer to starving plants than their optimum (about 1500 ppm).

The more CO2 there is in the atmosphere, the faster a single plant can absorb CO2.
Eventually we will reach a steady state and have better crop yields.

>>11128285
no, actually without burning dirty fossils we are in a clean bright future

>>11123464
How exactly is a warmer climate going to fuck me?

>>11129482
>water is for fags

>>11130119
>>11130121
You might be clinically retarded. The births already happened, and you CAN'T just undo that. That's the fucking problem, you reading comprehension lacking moron. China is unleashing shitloads of CO2 per year, and they can't stop it. Lowering CO2 per capita by a factor of two is unrealistic for them. Their biggest problem is population, and that's a lot harder to solve than just putting in some nuke, solar and wind. So we're basically guaranteed fucked. The TOTAL EMISSION is what matters. You probably still don't understand this.

>>11130950
>China is unleashing shitloads of CO2 per year, and they can't stop it.
Stop buying steel.
>The TOTAL EMISSION is what matters. You probably still don't understand this.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-power-renewables/renewables-overtake-coal-as-germanys-main-energy-source-idUSKCN1OX0U2?feedType=RSS&feedName=environmentNews
Non-industrial Anglo countries have no excuses no to make the switch.

>>11130950
I don't know if you are aware of this but china spends 3X what the US spends on increasing renewables. I also don't know if you know this but people die eventually even if you don't genocide them.

>>11130960
>>11130965
Stop splitting your posts.
>Stop buying steel.
Steel is one of the lowest energy cost materials you can build with.
>Germany
Do you want to pay 50 cents per kWh? You should have cited France, who didn't fall for the "nuclear bad" meme.
>china spends 3X what the US spends on increasing renewables
They have more than 3x the population, and it doesn't matter. Too many people is too many people. They made a problem which is far harder to solve than just deploying some solar and wind.
>genocide
You're still the only crazy fuck in here who has said anything about killing people to lower CO2 production. My argument was that saying "China is doing great because of their per capita CO2 emissions" is retarded, because their country's total emission is sharply higher than the sequestration rate for the slice of Earth they occupy. You got soundly btfo with your "population doesn't matter" argument, so now you're straw manning the shit out of me.

>>11131038
Germany only plays 30 cents per KWh vs France's 20 cents. France is currently on track to generate 50% of electricity from renewables by 2035 and is planning on closing 14 reactors.

>>11130950
So your argument is that the fatass US consumers shouldn't do anything because no one is going to murder all the chinks? What a pathetic defeatist attitude to excuse your greed.

>>11126428
Michael, Joe and Potaccio

>>11131038
>They have more than 3x the population
So you only care about per capita when it is spending on renewables and not CO2 generation.

>>11130960
>>11130965
>>11131217
>>11131219
>>11131767
Samefag

>>11131922
Imagine lacking an argument so much so that your only response is to call all the people that disagree with you the same person. As if that would make you any less wrong.

>>11123464
>No country has ever managed to reduce its CO2 emissions.

Lie disproven by the accompanied graph.

>>11131217
Germany has massive hidden costs in the form of heavy subsidies for wind and solar. Essentially, the government paid as much as necessary to make deployment of wind slightly more viable than anything else. Also hidden, is the cost of their grid having high usage variability as they haven't invested in the storage required to give solar/wind a high enough capacity factor to reliably match demand. This variability issue is externalized in the form of buying and selling large amounts of power with their neighbors. If everyone was doing what Germany is doing, there would need to be a lot of battery for grid stability. Adding battery and the additional capacity to keep them charged increases deployment costs by a factor of two to five depending on how much baseload you're replacing. The more baseload behavior you require, the more battery you need.

>>11131940
Imagine producing an army of straw men to tackle to make yourself feel good.

>>11130122
This. I imagine humanity will weather this out, but millions of people in countries in the orange and red are going to die.

>>11131942
Because European and American industries are now in China you retard.

>>11128884
Very based and incrediblly redpilled

>>11130242