/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11098824
Here you go:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
Enjoy the read, and get well soon.

>>11098928
can you explain anything about haplogroups instead of avoiding the question?

>>11098824
Y Haplogroups are based on single genes that indicate descend from specific men. This is why people in specific haplogroups can be present in populations widely separated from eachother.

>>11098959
No. There is no such thing as human "races" and if there were, it would not be important. History, and particularly the 20th century, has taught us that. We are all equally human, and anyone who thinks otherwise is lower than a garden slug.

>>11098824
If you don't understand it you're already on par with the /pol/lyps that won't shut the fuck up about it.

>>11098987
/pol/lyps? I love it.

>>11098824
How credible is that map? Looking at Iceland, Norway and Sweden it looks rather suspicious.

>>11099004
Not credible at all since the 1950s western europe have basically been mixing all the time.

>>11099001
How new are you?

>>11099020
I’ve only posted on /sci/ for about a year. Have heard /pol/tards but never /pol/lyps.

>>11099004
>How credible is that map? Looking at Iceland, Norway and Sweden it looks rather suspicious.

Did you not see the part that says “20+5 kya”?

>>11098965
so it just indicates descent then? if I had information on this I could relate myself to, say, charlemagne?
>>11098969
>No
then at least stop sperging out. I don't give three shits about your culture war faglord.
>>11098987
I've never seen this on /pol/ though. only on /his/ and /int/.

>>11099037
>so it just indicates descent then?

Yes. Anyone part of a Y haplogroup shares a specific male ancestor from who the mutation originated. For example, Haplogroup O is common in mainland China but is also present in some native Australians, and another haplogroup is common in native Americans but also present in Asia.

> if I had information on this I could relate myself to, say, charlemagne?

Most Europeans are related to Charlemagne, coincidentally. All humans are related to all other humans if you go back far enough of course but the relation to Charlemagne is pretty recent.

>>11099055
by that example you mean to say there is a fairly recent genetic relation of those people in china with those native australians. correct me if I'm wrong. I also have a few more questions:
1. what do the names mean (e1b1a1 etc.)?
2. what important application could this have outside of shitposting on 4chan?
3. you said this indicates descendance from a specific person, family, group etc. but what happens when they marry other groups? are new haplogroups created, do we call it a combination of two haplogroups?

>>11099055
>>11099037
As a hypothetical, imagine that you live on an island and have a mutation in your Y chromosome, making you the originator of Haplogroup A. You have two male children, and both are of course part of Haplogroup A. One of the children goes out fishing and gets blown out to sea by a storm, and lands on another island with three haplogroups, B, C, and D. He takes a wife there and has children, and his male children are part of your Haplogroup still, A, so that even long after his phenotypic traits have disappeared and all of your descendants are visually identical to the rest of the people on that island, you could still discern which of them are descended from your son and thus you by the presence of that mutation in their Y-chromosomes.
Does that make sense?

>>11099100
and what about females? females don't have a y cheomosome. if my haplogroup is A and I marry a woman of haplogroup B my son will come out as A?

>>11099099
>by that example you mean to say there is a fairly recent genetic relation of those people in china with those native australians.

Not necessarily recent, and the place with the highest concentration of a Haplogroup isn’t necessarily where it originated because humans have migrated all over the damn place.

> 1. what do the names mean (e1b1a1 etc.)?

I’m not really sure how they do it, but I think they go by order of descent, with Haplogroup A being the oldest one and all the others descending from it. It’s complicated.

> 2. what important application could this have outside of shitposting on 4chan?

It tells us things about potential vulnerability to disease, history of human migration, and ancestry which lots of people find interesting.

> 3. you said this indicates descendance from a specific person, family, group etc. but what happens when they marry other groups? are new haplogroups created, do we call it a combination of two haplogroups?

You can only have one Y-chromosomal Haplogroup because=
1. Only human men have Y chromosomes, and they only have one.
2. Men only reproduce with women, who have no Y chromosome.

>>11099111
>and what about females? females don't have a y cheomosome.

Women have mitochondrial haplogroups (and so do men) but they don’t have Y-chromosomal haplogroups because they obviously have no Y-chromosome whereas both sexes have mitochondria.
Mitochondrial haplogroups offer the same information as Y-chromosome haplogroups but through a different avenue. Mitochondria are organelles in human cells that are descended from symbiotic bacteria, and they retain their own genetic code. When your parents’ egg and sperm cells combine, the resulting zygote gets its mitochondria ONLY from the egg cell and thus mitochondrial DNA is strictly matrilineal.

>if my haplogroup is A and I marry a woman of haplogroup B my son will come out as A?

Your son will have the Y-chromosomal Haplogroup A but his mitochondrial haplogroup will be from his mother.

>>11098824
It's a bunch of more or less completely meaningless nonsense.

>>11099111
>>11099131
>>11099152

We only have Y chromosome haplogroups and mitochondrial haplogroups because the DNA in the X chromosome and autosomes is transmitted pretty much randomly, and as such is useless for determining matrilineal or paternal lines of descent.

>>11098824
>I don't understand haplogroups / racial classification
One possibility is that you lack the underlying knowledge to understand it.
A second possibility is that it can't be understood because it's full of contradictions / inconsistencies

If I spend the time to try to give you the underlying knowledge, you have to promise to keep an open mind and follow the knowledge where it leads, even if it leads to the second possibility. Do you agree?

>>11099131
so the relation appears when the mutation to the chromosome appears. that's
>>11099177
sure, I agree if you have additional information, but as you may have guessed my knowledge of biology is no greater than high school level so getting too technical won't do good. I'm not looking to get a degree on this studd.

>>11099152
>mitochondrial DNA is strictly matrilineal.
Not so fast.
http://archive.is/KN4VY
https://www.pnas.org/content/115/51/13039
>tfw links to Nature articles are considered spam on /sci/

>>11099193
oof fucked up the post.
*stuff

>>11099194
Weird. Also found a case study of one man who had some mitochondria from his father in parts of his body and in others, maternal mitochondria.

>>11099028
>“20+5 kya”
And the relevance is?

Since Iceland was to a large extent settled by vikings from Norway it is hard to see how these should differ so much.

>>11098824
it's actually b.s and uses circular logic to define things.
race exists but this is covert attack to make you think you are part chinese and thus invalidate race

>>11099037
>then at least stop sperging out. I don't give three shits about your culture war faglord.
there exist people who would be considered a certain race if only the ethnicity of their parents wasn't known. this is enough to realize that "race" is not based directly on genetics

furthermore, no "race" is "pure" -- all "races" are themselves the result of admixture. philosophically, why we should value our current set of "races" over any other set that previously existed or that will exist in the future?

>>11098824
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)#Y-DNA_backbone_tree

all haplogroups are just subclades of their parent haplos. So R is just a specific variant of P that got spread around when Indoeuropeans raped a whole bunch of white wimminz. R, P, L, N, and O are all just haplogroup K--just very successful variants of it.

They don't "stop" evolving, for example haplogroup B will accumulate just as many mutations as haplogroup K2b. It's just that B was never expansive and successful, and didn't conquer loads of territory that its subclades became important clades of their own. BT was though, and all Euro/Asian men derive from this African male marker.

They have nothing to do with autosomal ancestry. They are very useful for tracing migrations and conquests because they never recombine, and also because male identity is always more telling than female identity (females always survive and reproduce, it's not very interesting)

>>11098824
also that chart is brainlet tier, at least post a better one

>>11099775
many of the women were celts from the british isles so it's not entirely unreasonable.

>>11099775
according to iceland genome studies they were settled by 5 mitochondrial maternal irish lines and 3 viking y chromosome lines
the numbers might be the reverse though
basically a bunch of viking men took irish wives and moved to settle iceland