/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11080535
>>>/x/

>>11080535
that's dumb.

Prokaryotes turning into Eukaryotes due to adopting other prokaryotes within their cells that help with oxygen metabolism is so fucking rare that it only happened once in the entire universe.

>>11080535
The first civilization to get big makes sure everyone stays quiet.

>>11080535
We are intentionally left here as a breeding stock, so that the otherwise immortal civilization doesn't stagnate.

>>11080626
More like the first civilization that exist will develop so rapidly that there is no time for any other civilization to evolve as the first civilization would slowly encapsulate every star and deconstruct all planets for matter.

This is how we know humanity is the first. We can still see stars in the sky.

>>11080535
>Give me your personal solutions to the Fermi Paradox.

There is no Fermi Paradox because 0 of the values in the Drake Equation are known, and they won’t be known until we explore space ourselves for thousands of years, so no “Solution” is required.

>>11080641
Dumbest post

>>11080605
What about non-carbon based life?

>>11080535
The reason why there seems to be no "technosignatures" to be found is that our idea of "what looks artificial" is firstly based on what we humans would do, but this ceases working on beings far more advanced than us as we trying to understand them is akin to ants trying to understand humans. Secondly, our idea of what looks "natural" is based on what we most commonly observe in the cosmos, but a lot of that and even what we understand to be "laws of nature" is actually aliens doing alien stuff.

After civilizations reach singularity technological advancement becomes so fast that we are extremely unlikely to observe technological civilizations that are still comprehensible as such to us.

>>11080641
There can be a lot more efficient way of producing electricity than fusion
For example, there are many interesting ideas about using black holes
But civilisation so immense probably would've invented something better

>>11080687
There's only 2 atoms that can have enough covalent bonds to create complex molecules Carbon and Silicon. And Silicon bonds are a lot weaker and only stable under extremely specific circumstances.

I don't think non-carbon life is abundant and Carbon based life has the upperhand by far so silicon is going to become outcompeted if carbon life ever evolved on the same planet if silicon life already formed there.

All other atoms can't form complex enough molecules that could result in something resembling life.

>>11080697
Entropy is still real. Even if there was a better way to generate energy letting stars burn would still waste away a ton of energy towards entropy.

An advanced species's priority would always be to extinguish all stars as soon as possible. Yet we can still see stars proving there is no advanced life out there.

>>11080535
Their technology is efficient enough that it doesn't give off a detectable heat signature. Stealth is easy enough for them that they just do it by default and don't need to do anything that we could see.

>>11080716
Laws of thermodynamics mean they still need to release infrared radiation based on their level of energy usage. Meaning if they have a lot of power generation (fusion power or higher) we would have seen it by now.

We have scanned our galaxy and the nearest million galaxies for infrared signatures which we should easily see from dyson spheres or fusion based propulsion systems. But we found nothing.

We're alone.

>>11080535
Actually, the only way we're able to make the observations we've made is if the entire universe is being simulated, as our observations would deviate unless they were the sum of all prior events. Needless to say it would require a universe-sized hard-drive only to store the state of a universe, and then you don't even have a processor yet...

>>11080724
Make things efficient enough and you don't need big power plants. Use something other than heat differential to generate power and those power plants emit even less heat. Discover more laws of physics and you may find a way around that law entirely.

>>11080704
Methane mein nigger

>>11080746
Methane is a carbon molecule.

>>11080741
Even the most efficient power generation would still produce detectable heat. And that's very unlikely, that the most important law would be false

>>11080748
Please excuse me I'm retarded

>>11080535
alien civilizations invented full-on vr and they just aren't interest in going to sace

>>11080535
intelligent life must necessarily be capable of abstraction
evolution does this by making abstraction enjoyable
so inevitably, intelligent life finds more pleasure in the abstract than in reality
and anime waifus end intelligent life by being better than normal women in every way
leaving only the people who don't enjoy abstraction
thus dooming the once "intelligent" life into consisting entirely of engies, retards and tradcons, usually all of the above
if they have nothing abstract to compare their life against they doom the species to a stagnant life, wanting for nothing, living for nothing except to find an average wife and have average kids, because thats what theyre supposed to do
and their dead weight and corpses pile up, but without them getting any closer to the sky, to perfection

>>11080779
Spotted the incel

>>11080749
Not detectable at long range. And in a long enough timescale, it's very likely that all our laws will turn out to be false at some level.

>>11080535
Hmmm. This idea is interesting as it places value on superstition. Very remarkable indeed. First time I have ever heard of it. Well I have heard of several rogue waves of mobilized infantries on American soil. The only situation is that once they are in you really can’t do nothing. The law is their unalienable right. But according to what was said to me is that they invaded in a pattern. They treated the US as a deserted area and their region was woodland and prime growing region. As if they’d be tricked in the turn around. And something else. Something about a silicate mine. Supposedly something interesting about the silicate particles and how they could be used to alter reality or distort memory. Pre-programmed ghost events. They had their own Fermi paradox.

>>11080832

Perhaps Crichton was onto something when he wrote this book. The state of fear. You guys shall read it. Perhaps it shows a more accurate and viable aapplication for the Fermi paradox to be valid.

>>11080535
Just like life itself, intelligent technologically advanced life is temporary and often a tiny blip on the geological scale, because the natural resources required for technology are used up.

>>11080803
Spotted the incel

>>11080535
We exist EXTREMELY close to the start of the universe, relative to how long the universe will exist, how long the stars will burn. We can accurately say the universe is only 13.8 billion years old.

To put it briefly, I believe we are the progenitor species. Or rather, we will be. The reason there are no other species in the galaxy is because they have not yet been seeded by us. I believe this is in some way His will.
A universe full of life delays entropy, and is thus moral.

>>11080605
This
>>11080704
and this

The solution is literally "humans are the only intelligent lifeforms in the entire observable universe"
Also, wait until you learn about the axis of evil. lol

>>11081021
What about the tic tak from the USS Nimitz Incident?? Is that just not real anymore?

>inb4 >>>/x/

There is space fairing life everywhere but those that still exists today have learnt not to make themselves detectable because of extremely expansionist civilizations that will hunt you down and kill you for your habitable planet.
They all see us broadcasting into the void and they want to tell us to stop but can't without revealing themselves and so they watch and wait knowing our fate is already sealed.

>>11080535
The paradox is stupid because aliens live with us right now. Lizard people are everywhere.

>>11081021
>Also, wait until you learn about the axis of evil. lol

That was disproven.

>>11080535
Energy is the great filter. The amount of energy needed to escape your home world results in total depletion of indigenous resources while also drastically altering the composition of its atmosphere.

>>11080711
Olbers paradox. Naively, we would expect the night sky to be bright as day. Because while apparent size of star r distance away decays as 1/r^2, number of stars increases as r^2.

Obviously the explanation must be pic related

>>11080535
>It's either conducting experiments or making us suffer for entertainment.
Idea for an experiment: does the active cattle prod hurt when it touches the man's scrotum? We need a large sample for this. Like, a huge sample.

>>11080779
>anime waifus end intelligent life by being better than normal women in every way leaving only the people who don't enjoy abstraction

Have you ever gone balls deep in a wet, warm and tight pussy, pressed your pelvis into a tight round ass and sucked a pink nipple on top of a perfectly shaped, teardrop tit?

>>11081214
No of course he fucking hasn’t he wouldn’t be into anime if he did

>>11080535
We are in an 'immortal ancestor dreaming simulation' where the only true escape is being killed in a war of some description.

>t.General_Attention@war_on_boredom

>>11081021
Intelligent lifeforms meaning life energy that agrees it takes 'one' form and expresses an intelligence which is that there is always an advertisement before action, with some smoothing feedback process to be included/allowed.

Most humans use religious worship as their feedback process.

>>11080535
>A
Life that becomes intelligent enough for real interstellar travel figures out how fucking meaningless it all is, and sudokus.
Life that naïvely believes there is some larger purpose never makes it out of their local system.
If this is the case, then we're probably in then second category.

>B
It turns out we're off by several orders of magnitude on how frequently life forms, and Earth was a total fucking miracle.
If this is the case, then we should seed the universe with berserkers as soon as we can. They don't have to exterminate worlds, but just suppress their technology. Probes with onboard AGI can do this. There is an /x/-tier chance that this is being done to us currently.

>>11081204
Well as the divine male with the most productive testicles, I guess I have to be the baseline sample.

>Offers first-born daughter as sacrifice to all the other male rape gods

Life is fun.

>>11081214
Have you?

>perfectly shaped, teardrop tit?
thats an oxymoron, teardrop just means both small and saggy

>>11080535
The universe really is that fucking large, and civilizations rarely actually form from intelligent life. And, space travel is actually pretty rare for civilizations, as it requires many things that may be unavailable to them, like metallurgy, or having a low-enough gravity field.

Other pet theory is that we are actually one of the first civilizations to develop, as the universe is pretty young, and our galaxy younger still.

>>11080535
Life is rare especially complex life.
Also advanced civilisations that would be detectable aren't really possible or viable.

>>11080641
>>11080711
This relies on the assumption that the highest level of complexity a species can reach is doing intergalactic exploration and exploitation.
What if they ascended to another plan of existence or created their own alternative reality?

Did you guys ever play a procedurally generated game?
In these games the world is theorically infinite but after a while you've seen pretty much everything, there's not much of a point pushing further and further, it won't provide any novelty, the rules won't change.
Besides by that time you have PLENTY of material ressources to basically reach any level of technology.

What would be the incentive of a species to go through billions of galaxies? It would be like us going through a thorough examination of every single rock on earth, what's the point?

The only scenario I could see this being true is with some sort of dumb tyranid-like AI consuming matter and energy just because it's been programmed at an instinctual level.

>>11080535
the ayys are just pulling a prank on us and 1000 years from now we will be laughing our asses off when they finally arrive at our star system to acquire minerals

>>11081629
Science isn't settled on the rarity of life. There might be life on Mars or Europa, we haven't dug very deep into any of these. In the same vein, we can't say for sure that there is no life on planets in a sphere with 100 ly radius around the earth and that's a very small piece of the universe.

>>11081707
>In the same vein, we can't say for sure that there is no life on planets in a sphere with 100 ly radius around the earth and that's a very small piece of the universe.

Every rocky planet orbiting a class G star in the habitable zone could have thriving biospheres and we would have no idea.

>>11080535

Fermi Paradox is obsolete.

>>11081742

Deprecated by?

>>11080687
what about non-atomic based life

atoms only make up 4.6% of the universe there's room for particle systems that can allow for life

>>11081053
Hmm. Planet 9 is actually an escape path opened. Musl sent his tesla to test how it will reacts in a blackhole.

>>11081666
Nice one.
A drug addict bio tyran could go on a global conquest to etract and inject himself with the biggest amount of dopamine%serotonin.

There is no fermi paradox

It's like peeking into the woods for a few minutes, seeing no bears and declaring "Bears don't exist!"

We're simply the first intelligent life in our young universe.

>>11081021
>axis of evil
Oh no, its retarded.

>>11080535

There are other advanced civilisations but the laws of physics dictate there will never be practice exploration of the universe. We are also not able to look effeciently.

There are probably plenty at or somewhat above our level but the idea of a galactic civilisation is impossible/ too impractical

>>11082041
>the laws of physics dictate there will never be practice exploration of the universe
show your working

>>11081666
>What would be the incentive of a species to go through billions of galaxies? It would be like us going through a thorough examination of every single rock on earth, what's the point?
The species wouldn't literally have to do that themselves they could just make a self-replicating von neumann probe that slowly collects all matter in the universe and sends it back to the species's original solar system.

The species could just be chilling in their VR but it would still result in all stars getting extinguished because stars waste energy towards entropy which reduces the amount of time that species has in existence.

Basically the cost of living trillions of years longer is to build 1 single von neumann probe to gather all matter because it would do all of that on its own once it is released.

There is simply no reasonable argument for why species wouldn't do this.

Therefor we can safely conclude that humanity is the only advanced species in the universe. We can still see stars after all.

>>11080807
This is false we can calculate the absolute minimum amount of infrared radiation a dyson sphere should release based upon the laws of thermodynamics assuming the machine is as efficient as the laws of physics allows it to be.

Assuming that we would STILL be able to detect a single dyson sphere in the nearest million galaxies and our own. We have done this survey and found 0 of these infrared signatures. Proving that there is no dyson sphere or advanced propulsion system in use in at least the nearest billion galaxies.

It all points towards there being no advanced species out there. This is also logical because the universe is extremely young at only 13.4 billion years old while the total lifespan of the universe is estimated to be 1*10^26 years.

We are about 0.00000000000000002% into the lifespan of the universe. We basically came into existence at the absolute start of this place and see 0 signs of intelligence in the universe even though we have advanced enough sensors to see them if they existed.

Of course it's rational to assume we're alone in this scenario.

>>11082104
>There is simply no reasonable argument for why species wouldn't do this.

Yes there is.
They don’t care, and we don’t either.

>>11082110
Dyson spheres are neither possible nor practical, so none exist. Even if they were somehow possible or practical, they’d be inferior to local fusion reactors. Your argument is 100% wrong and retarded

>>11082111
Every evolved species would value survival as their base instinct since species that don't value survival would have been out-competed in their billion years of evolution towards intelligence.

Meaning advanced rational species will all have a drive to maximize the length of their survival/existence.

The cost of a single von neumann probe to such an advanced society is negligible while the reward (hundreds of trillions of years of added lifespan) is absolutely huge.

Every advanced species would come to the conclusion to do this. Hell even if the species as a whole doesn't care just a single individual needs to release such a probe for all stars to disappear.

The fact that we can still see stars means that every single individual in every single species collectively decided "nah who cares". Which seems absurd to even suggest.

The truth is that we're just alone.

>>11082114
>Dyson spheres are neither possible nor practical
Dyson spheres aren't literal giant constructed spheres. Instead they are just our current day satellites but orbitting in such a large amount and layers that 100% of the radiation emitted by a star gets captured (except for waste heat). It's not only practical, we could do it with our current technology and indeed already started since we have a couple dozen satellites already orbiting our sun.

Also I agree that other forms of energy generation are superior to dyson spheres which is why what most likely would happen is that every star gets "star lifted" which means it gets deconstructed using the star's own energy so that we can use the material for that star in our own energy generators that are more effiicent than stars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_lifting

Either way stars still existing is extremely inefficient and no advanced species in their right mind would let such insanely wasteful things as stars "just burn" like they are doing now. Therefor seeing stars itself is direct evidence that there are no advanced species out there.

>>11080535
Life is rare, to the point where we may be the alone in our supercluster of galaxies, or even in Hubble volume.

Alternatively, life is common but intelligent life is rare.

>>11082118
>Every evolved species would value survival as their base instinct since species that don't value survival would have been out-competed in their billion years of evolution towards intelligence.

Demonstrably incorrect because humans exist and humans do not value long-term survival over short-term gratification.

>>11082124
>Also I agree that other forms of energy generation are superior to dyson spheres which is why what most likely would happen is that every star gets "star lifted" which means it gets deconstructed using the star's own energy so that we can use the material for that star in our own energy generators that are more effiicent than stars.

Still retarded. A gas giant or two present in the solar system is sufficient to provide hydrogen and helium for fusion for trillions of years. There is no need whatsoever to gather all resources possible or we’d do so. We don’t. We only gather what is necessary and profitable.

>>11082164
It's because humans have a lifespan of ~80 years on average. However advanced species would most likely have fixed aging and have machine based decision making both immortal individuals as well as AIs will care about long-term goals.

Also individuals may not care about their own survival as we've seen in suicidal people. However again you would have to ensure that 100% of all individuals of all advanced species decide to not build a von neumann probe that extinguish all stars for us to still see stars.

That is a giant assumption to make that every individual "just so happens" to decide to not care enough to create a single self-replicating probe which in such an advanced society would probably barely cost anything to the individual to make.

Occam's razor points towards us being alone due to this.

>>11082190
>It's because humans have a lifespan of ~80 years on average. However advanced species would most likely have fixed aging and have machine based decision making both immortal individuals as well as AIs will care about long-term goals.

Meaningless. Living forever doesn’t make you live any less in the moment. The idea of dental surgery in five years bothers no one until it’s a week away.

> However again you would have to ensure that 100% of all individuals of all advanced species decide to not build a von neumann probe that extinguish all stars for us to still see stars.

Von Neumann probes aren’t possible either.

>>11082174
>There is no need whatsoever to gather all resources possible or we’d do so. We don’t. We only gather what is necessary and profitable.

Except that the universe has a finite amount of matter and energy. Precisely 4*10^69 J. There will never be more than this amount of matter and energy, it's finite.

Due to entropy more and more of this gets wasted so there will be less and less of it to use over time. Stars are the major cause of this waste of energy towards entropy. So stopping stars from burning would by definition eliminate most of the entropic effects from happening in our universe. This would give an insane amount of extra existence to the species or future resources to use for whatever they choose to do with it.

This can all be gathered for the negligible cost of a SINGLE von neumann probe. And can be launched by a single individual. So there's untold trillions of years extra existence for a civilization for the cost of just 1 car size probe.

And you're assuming that every single individual in every advanced species somehow rejects that and chooses to reduce their own potential lifespan by thousands of trillions of years "just because".

I hope you start to realize by now that the chance of no one choosing to do so despite it being a rational choice is extremely low to the point of it being unrealistic.

The most obvious conclusion is us being alone so the choice can't be made by anyone else and thus stars still being visible to us.

>>11080535
I like the dark forrest explanation but if its true then everything is pretty grim.

>>11082204
What if there just aren’t any alien species at that level of tech yet? Just because no species has built a von neumann probe doesn’t mean we are alone.

>>11082205
i dont know that explanation

>>11082204
>Except that the universe has a finite amount of matter and energy. Precisely 4*10^69 J. There will never be more than this amount of matter and energy, it's finite

Who cares? We don’t. No one else does, either, because all the resources we or anyone else could ever need are right here. Leaving the solar system is at best a novelty.

> Due to entropy more and more of this gets wasted so there will be less and less of it to use over time. Stars are the major cause of this waste of energy towards entropy. So stopping stars from burning would by definition eliminate most of the entropic effects from happening in our universe. This would give an insane amount of extra existence to the species or future resources to use for whatever they choose to do with it.

That is literally impossible so I don’t know what the fuck you’re rambling on about. Stars can not be moved, no one wants to move stars, and no one would. Literally no one in billions of years would vote to have robots use impossible nonexistent magic to push all the stars into their own solar system and kill themselves with the resulting supernova/black hole

> This can all be gathered for the negligible cost of a SINGLE von neumann probe.

Von Neumann probes are impossible so any conclusions drawn are void. Even if they did exist, they can not manipulate stars. The stars would just incinerate them.

>>11081731
Not no idea. We can make rough estimates of atmosphere composition. Seeing lots of O2 would be really interesting.

Problem is space and time.
Space is so fuck huge that of course intelligent life will happen somewhere else besides earth, but time the universe has been around, 13-14 billion years, makes it so two intelligent species will most likely never exist at the same time.

While intelligent life must be super rare I still believe that simple life is abundant around the universe at all times.

>>11082138
This. The most plausible explanation is the simplest, most obvious one. We don't see anybody else because we are alone.

>>11082231
>Who cares? We don’t
Like I said you only need a single individual with the ability to do this as well as the caring to do it. For humanity that would include myself. Sadly we don't have the ability to do so yet otherwise I'd personally already started the process of sending out von neumann probes to extinguish all stars. The point is that for stars to still be visible EVERY individual from EVERY advanced species must have chosen to not do this which considering how beneficial and rational of a move this is seems extremely unlikely.


>That is literally impossible
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_lifting

Please actually read this. It's surprisingly trivial to accomplish.

>>11082417
>Wikipedia a articles listing imaginary hypothetical ideas that’d never work

Cope

>>11082231
>Who cares?
Intelligences a trillion years from now, who will be cursing earlier stages for their wastefulness. His argument is that someone will see this future problem and work to mitigate it. Humanity is large. You don't care, but some of us do. We'll be the ones who do everything possible to prolong our existence.
>impossible
>impossible
You're so shortsighted and stupid I'm wondering how you even figured out how to post on here. There are impossible things. Working against thermodynamics is impossible. Breaking light speed is impossible. Star lifting and self-reproducing probes are not impossible. They're unsolved science and engineering challenges.

>>11082219
There is life out there, and everything stays really fucking quiet because there's no way to tell if other life is hostile. All life thus hostile as the alternative is annihilation, so everyone shoota first and asks questions never. Fights are done rationally, the first party to notice another launches a tungsten telephone pole at speeds as close to C as possible at the other guy's planet.

Stay quiet, or experience unstoppable annihilation.

>>11082104
>
>There is simply no reasonable argument for why species wouldn't do this.

It is a destruxtive behavior and would be forbidden by a ruling comittee

One of the first law the un passed was to forbid space or the moon to be exploited by a single country...

>>11080711
>An advanced species's priority would always be to extinguish all stars as soon as possible
way to anthropomorphize human values onto alien life

Total neglect of psy power improvement

>>11082543
It's an extrapolation based upon the laws of physics (Energy is finite and entropy means it'll diminish over time) as well as evolution (Species not valuing survival or existence wouldn't have survived for the billion of years it takes to go from single-celled organism to a intelligent technology using species).

These aren't human values they are universal among all evolved intelligences.

>>11082550
alien intelligent life might value stars
you're assuming alien life would value entropy minimization over preserving stars

>>11080535
earth is literally the center of the universe

>>11082558
I'm assuming life resulting from evolution tries to survive for as long as possible and has the hindsight to extend their own theoretical lifespan.

Sure individuals or even whole societies might value the aesthetics of stars so much that they collectively decide to sacrifice trillions of years of potential existence just to have those stars.

However for us to be able to see stars you'd need every single individual in every single advanced species to all agree that they value the aesthetics of stars more than their theoretically longer existence.

That's an extremely long stretch to make and unlikely to happen.

>>11082079

To clarify that is just my opinion.I hope I am completely wrong.

Either initial Biogenesis is insanely rare or an alien race has us protected from itself and other races until we get advanced enough to meet them.

We're like wildlife to them, they probably check up on us now and then to see how life on Earth is going.

>>11080730
Ideas of infinitely more complex structures capable of calculating the amount of variables involved in the totality of the observable universe are more logically sound in higher and higher dimensions. Our universe could be nested in a higher dimensional computer

>>11082219
If you're in a dark spooky forest you don't call out for help because it lets the lions and tigers and bears know where you are.

>>11082110
You keep saying a million galaxies. That isn’t true what you are saying. I’m sure you believe it but that’s not true.

>>11080730
can someone explain this please

>>11080535

>>11080535
You're not far off, yet completely wrong.

>>11080535
At higher levels of advancement lifeforms tend to become less expansive in favor of more internal development and creating robust, functioning systems.

Any civilization that successfully becomes space-faring requires a degree of cooperation and technological robustness to maintain itself that is incompatible with the mindless expansionism mindset of species who cannot bring their societies into space in a self-sustaining way.

>>11080535
A: aliens are scared of relativistic kinetic bombardment from their neighbours
B: Aliens don't exist yet, we're the first life in the galaxy
C: We are being left alone in a prime directive style "leave budding civilisations to develop on their own because it tends not to end well when we fuck with them" type deal

>>11083193
Nice

The universe is too big and our means of observation are lacking. It's like searching for plankton from a lighthouse with your bare eyes.

>>11080535
>Your personal explanations for the Fermi Paradox
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

>>11081059
this, the recent ufo disclosures are all subterfuge

>>11083356
>The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

It absolutely is. How strong evidence that is depends on the details, of course. i.e. how hard we have looked for evidence for instance.

I think this is how civilizations end. Surrounded by screens.

Would you rather the story of humanity ends with a bang, or slowly fades away?

>>11080535

>>11083676
*snort*

>>11080535
Our Universe is exceptionally young, and intelligent life has not had enough opportunities or time to develop on a widespread scale.

In order for INTELLIGENT life as we understand it to form, you need a Solar system consisting of a stable, mid sized, metal rich, star. The stability and size issues mainly have to do with the presence of radiation or heat output. Too much or too little are both issues that would make intelligent life extremely difficult if not impossible. The star and it's resulting system need to be metal rich. Not only does life require a significant amount of metals to function, but perhaps the single most important thing for life to have the correct conditions to both form and survive for long enough to become intelligent is a world with a magnetosphere. In our solar system, (which is a metal RICH system as far as we can tell), only THREE worlds out of hundreds of planets, proto-planets, etc, have such. Mercury is a dead ball, Venus is dying and it's core is either stopped or close to stopping, and Mars is also likely dead. Earth only has a magnetosphere, and thus a life sustaining atmosphere, because of a freak collision with a plantoid giving it a massive iron core capable of staying active and convective for the length of our star's life. Without that freak accident, Earth would have been just another dead rock in space. The other two worlds in our system with magnetospheres are ice giants under the effects of tidal distortion from gas giants. They may support life, but not intelligent life. Considering all this, that in our metal rich system only ONE world of hundreds can support intelligent life, is telling.

Now, I know that the general argument against this is that there are a hundred billion stars in the galaxy, statistically there must be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of potential Earth like planets that could still support intelligent life.

TBC

>>11083913
But how many of those system are stable mid sized stars? How many are metal rich? How many have a terrestrial world (either a planet or moon), within their life zone? How many have liquid hydrocarbons on their surface? How many have a large enough metal core to sustain a magnetosphere?

We don't have the technology to answer those questions. But we can look at how many generations of stars have lived and died since the beginning of the universe, and it's only about 2-3. All those metals, and even some hydrocarbons, MUST be forged in a star to exist. The raw materials to create a stable enough environment for the formation of intelligent life must come from a dead star, and there simply has not been enough generations of stars for those materials to exist in abundance.

Earth is a freak accident. A planet that, through a 1 in a 100 billion chance, happened to form at the right distance, in the right system, with the right formation, to sustain life. We are likely extremely early life forms, forming several stellar generations before life will become "common," assuming that Humans or some other intelligent species doesn't conquer the Universe before that happens.

We are just incredibly, impossibly lucky, even if it doesn't seem as such to us because we have no other frame of reference.

There are other things to considered, other questions that may factor into this. How hard is abiogenesis? For instance. But overall my personal belief is that we are simply too early and likely alone, although I do suspect we are going to find microbial life and simple cells all over the place.

>>11083193
This

>>11083936
I don't think abiogenesis is very rare. I think prokaryotes to eukaryote is what is unique to Earth.

>>11081766

By the fact that earth is being visited on a regular basis.

>>11083676

ELIMINATE HUMAN TYRANNY!

THE WORLD BELONGS TO TRISOLARIS!

>>11083936
except that there are countless star systems in our galaxy with even higher metallicity than the Sun

>>11080535
My headcanon
>Intelligent life is really rare
>what intelligent life manages to become interstellar mostly uses automated von neumann probes (the reason for the whole UFO phenomenon here- various probes constantly buzz around, catalogue and sample stuff and then fuck off to reproduce and continue)
>most life that becomes superintelligent "vanishes" from regular macroscopic space- either secluding themselves into perfect simulated realities with maximum minimization of enthropy (plenty of room at the bottom) or becomes transdimensional
>radio signals degrade in strenght and get redshifted with distance too quickly to actually allow meaningful detection

>>11083676
I think it's highly unlikely that a highly advanced civilization would also be agressive, and every species breeds themselves peaceful once their technology advances to be destructive enough. So many warlike people ended their lives in the last century alone that it caused a massive shift in society and things that were common practices just a few centures ago would cause an outrage today.

>>11080535
It's dumb. The universe is massive, we haven't even explored 1% of it. Also, the universe is so massive, it doesn't necessitate that we would have heard radio chatter from other civilizations yet.

>>11080535
>>11086445
Oh, also, signal attenuation.

To become space faring you must destroy your home world. Energy is the Great Filter.

>>11080535
You must be seen in Africa, but you aren't, that's Fermi paradox for you.

>>11080535
The whole Fermi concept is retarded

We have no idea what's out there, we've got a handful of hi res images of planets, a couple Rover landings and tons of radio waves.

We have no idea what's on any planet outside our solar system

>>11080535
For Fermi being such a huge genius and having contributed so, so, so much to modern physics, the "Fermi Paradox" sure is some dumb shit. It's like the "Einstein sticking out tongue photography conjecture."

>>11086401
1st world White countries are the only ones who have dropped the war stances and now their countries are getting invaded by people with a warlike mindset of taking from White people exclusively. Its a cycle thats gone on since Whites created the very first civilizations in Northern China and central Asia.

White countries being peaceful is entirely dependent on there being food at the supermarkets to buy.

>>11080535
We are one of the first civilizations out there for only now we had the right ingredients to create complex life.
The Great Filter is behind us, see >>11080605. Additionally, >>11080641
has also a good point why we may be the first one here.

>>11080535
Intelligent life that is capable of space travel is exceptionally rare. Killer Whales are likely smarter than humans but they could never build a spaceship even given 10 billion years.

>>11080535
I’ve noticed most psychedelic users are obvious. They have a certain look. They have unique hairstyles, look kind of dirty, are into pseudoscience like magic crystals, etc.. All psychedelic users I’ve met in real life and also have seen on youtube videos always have that look and they’re very “free spirited” hippie-like people who seem a little out of touch with reality. The question is, would they still be that way even if they didn’t use psychedelic drugs, or did they become that way because of the drugs?

>>11088378
wrong thread

>>11080535
How about, we just haven't found the fucking aliens yet

>>11080535
Our criteria for "life" is misguided. Life arose on Earth under a certain set of conditions, so naturally we look for Earth like planets with similar conditions as places to find extraterrestrial life. However, just like there is anaerobic bacteria, there is nothing stopping lifeforms on other planets from evolving under completely separate conditions, and thus would develop to be such an alien lifeform (pun intended) we would hardly even recognize it as such.

>>11080535
Every so often the black hole at the center of the Milky Way enters an active phase and emits large amounts of radiation for hundreds of thousands of years. This may mean that within a certain radius intelligent life is much less likely to develop because any complex life that does develop gets killed by the radiation. There's even the possibility that these large radiation outbursts could cause the collapse of space faring civilizations. The sudden ramp up in radiation level might mean that spaceships and space infrastructure suddenly needs to carry much more shielding to in order to survive. This sudden change may cause civilization to collapse. In addition, if there's no way to accurately predict when the radiation outburst can occur, there's even the possibility of much infrastructure being destroyed instantaneously. Intense X-ray radiation like this might even cause machines to fail too.
https://phys.org/news/2019-10-center-milky.html
https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.02225

intelligence capable of space travel is very rare but definitely out there. Its probably here on earth now, especially if the tic tacs are legit, they just don't want us to know about them. I mean really, a species cable of solving space travel can't hide themselves?

We can't see megastructures because they either arent practical or are too far away for their signal to have reached us yet. The light (fastest thing in the physical universe) from stars that we see is thousands/millions/billions of years old. Give it another decade or 20 and maybe some crazy shit would show up.

>>11088561
>tic tacs
explain

There have existed, exist, and will exist many civilizations. None of them will ever find any evidence of the existence of any other due to distances of time and space.

Research released in 2016 revised the number of galaxies in the observable universe from a previous estimate of 200 billion to a suggested 2 trillion and a septillion stars. There are many times more planets than stars.

>>11080535
Social parasitism. As a civilization grows more complex and gets better at automation, the most successful groups and individuals are those that prey on others, exploiting sympathy, hijacking causes and institutions etc. until the host civilization disintegrates.
Getting to the point of orbital spaceflight is rare, never mind maintaining the ability for any real amount of time.

humans are fucking impatient niggers and waiting 50 years and being upset at not finding aliens is the equivalent of texting a girl and being pissed she hasn't texted back 1 second later

>>11080535
I always like to think that humans (on Earth) and other civilizations live in orthogonality, some sort of many carrier waves multiplexed in a single channel

>>11080535

Our technology is just crap and we can't see shit. That's all.

Assuming aliens would build dyson spheres or consume entire galaxies is just sci-fi.

>>11082194
>robot that builds more robot isn't possible
ok kid

>>11082205
yeah i like that one too

>>11084899
gib sophon gf

>>11080535
This guy >>11080960 gets it. The universe will be a very long story, but it hasn't even properly started yet. Humans are just the foreword.

>>11080960
If giant dinosaurs existed, there was likely an intelligent (hint: reptilian) species that developed either simultaneously or subsequently before a mamallian offshoot developed from a ferretlike state of life into highly dextrous, bipedal, artistic apes. If this species exists or existed it is likely that we were the postgenitors or creatures of this group. If the theory of evolution is accepted, it is actually a more logical deduction than the independent development of homo sapiens

>>11082104
Entropy is merely a statistical deduction irrespective of the laws of physics. The fact life exists and thrives is a refutation of the existence of entropy as an all-encompassing aspect of reality>>11080692

>>11083297
I think it's a combination of A and C

>>11090813
>>11083297
If intelligent life exists elsewhere and if they would conquer their neighbors for their resources assuming they knew of their existence then it can be surmised that warp drives do not exist.
>takes a bow