/sci/ - Science & Math

>is calculus hard
No.
>what is pre-calculus
Only pre-calculus you need for calculus is a basic understanding of trigonometric functions and limits. The other topics they will cover before you go into (parametric equations, vectors, and matrices).

>>11050831
>I'm not asian btw
kek look up The Chinese Room.
you can easily do calculus without understanding it
it's just mindless applications of rules
it depends what you want to get out of doing it

>>11051038
Integrals require a bit more finesse, but algorithms to compute any derivative whatsover are pretty simple

>>11050831
Differential calculus is a joke.
Integral can be tricky, but we have integral tables for a reason.

>>11051035
My high school teacher made us solve 4x4s and 5x5s in reduced row echelon form by hand in pre cal. Good times

>>11050831
What is your race?

>>11051429
Did he make you do determinants of 4x4s and 5x5s by hand?

>>11051429
>My high school teacher made us solve 4x4s and 5x5s in reduced row echelon form by hand in pre cal. Good times
Well, this is the only appropriate time to solve them at all, so he did good. If you waste your time on this shit in uni, you have chosen a terrible programme.

>>11050831
Almost nothing is hard if you study properly and practice.

>>11050831
I don't know but I'm starting to believe that the best way to learn math is via programming.

Read a text book, every paragraph write it in your own words until you understand the 'story' behind whats happening.

If you don't get it pick a different source. Use different sources and repeat until you understand whats going on..

Then learn python or someshit and code up a differentiation function or approximator. Then start playing with it.

Forget doing math by hand, simple mistakes are too common and steal away the 'soul' of math and replace with how many symbols can you write without accidentally fucking up. Which is more akin to a bricklayer's job (how many bricks can you lay without fucking up).. then actual intellectual work.

>>11051038
乏味的解釋性教學翻譯

>>11051441
I cant remember. Was like 5 years ago. I wouldnt doubt it though. He was the hardest teacher in our school. But he was an even better teacher and great guy too. Hes the guy that inspired me want to study what i study now

>>11051409
Well, true however imposing exceptions are still just rules.

>>11050831
Calculus seems to only be difficult if you’re slow at everything else math related.

>>11051466
yeah, like there's that maxima algorithm that computes most integrals symbolically that has been around since forever so it's possible to automatize, but it's much more complicated

>>11051451
I don't know but I'm starting to believe that the best way to learn math is via programming.

I bet you do think that

>>11050831
Precalculus is our personal torture chamber perfectly designed for brainlets. In it we waste their time teaching them to manipulate a bunch of functions that are supposed to be "special" instead of teaching them the concept of function properly, which would allow them to learn any particular function on their own should they need to. These special functions we teach them also depend on other abstract concepts like irrational numbers, which are also not properly explained until calculus, so if you are a brainlet you are essentially fucked and I hope you know that we are playing with you. Precalculus is Auschwitz for brainlets.

>>11051491
>precalculus is Auschwitz for brainlets
Seems like Calculus II is Auschwitz for brainlets but it might actually be college algebra since that class has the highest fail rate of any college course probably follow closely behind by precalculus.

>>11050831
>is calculus really that hard?
no all of calculus is just motorizing a formula sheet
>what exactly do you learn at pre-calculus?
synthetic division and nothing else.

>>11051521
Well, certainly calc 2 is "harder" than precalc, but I'm talking in terms of pure PURE brainlet torture. But you are right, college algebra is the true Auschwitz. I sometimes forget that the king of useless mathematics taught to children and "adults" is analytic geometry, given that once you enter a real math classroom you learn that all of manalytic geometry is just one equation with matrices and quadratic forms that we memed up into an entire year of material just to mess with the brainlets.

I still think it is quite cruel to teach people about special functions and irrational numbers in the course that is pre- to the course where they will actually learn proper function theory and real numbers. Pure madness. I love how all of math is just made to fuck brainlets in the ass.

>>11051535
> all of manalytic geometry is just one equation with matrices and quadratic forms that we memed up into an entire year of material just to mess with the brainlets.
Mathematician here with teaching experience. The point of geometric problems at school is to instill the culture of proofs as well as deductive and inductive reasoning. Most if the things you are taught in school/college are pointless, they are there so that students learn how to learn.

You use the word "brainlet" 2 times but if you couldn't understand this point on your own, then I have some bad news for you regarding your relation to brainlets.

>>11051588
>Mathematician here with teaching experience
So high school teacher, got it.
>The point of geometric problems at school is to instill the culture of proofs as well as deductive and inductive reasoning
If this is your goal then I'm even sadder because boy are you failing ridiculously at this. Show me some of those college algebra kids that know "proofs" and "inductive reasoning".

>>11051604
>>Mathematician here with teaching experience
Of course I had to teach at school, it was required by my phd programme. Currently am teaching two courses, algebraic methods in quantum field theory and noncommutative algebra.

>If this is your goal then I'm even sadder because boy are you failing ridiculously at this. Show me some of those college algebra kids that know "proofs" and "inductive reasoning".
It is so here in Russia. Not my problem that you were studying with idiots.

>>11051612
>Russia
Okay so you have no idea of what we are even talking about. Check your privilege, you actually live in a good country of math. Well, except for pay god damn.

>>11050831
Pre calc in my experience just laid foundations in algebra and trig you would need to prepare for calculus. Trig identities are solid to know for making integral calculus managable. I learned partial fractions in pre calc and they came up in stuff like calc 2 and diff eq, mostly if your algebra and trig are solid, calculus through multivariable is fine. The actual calculus taught is easy enough to understand, it is just getting your functions in a form to work with using calculus is the real trick.

>>11050831
Difficulty is relative. That said, for calc it's very exaggerated. In the U.S. I notice among older folk it has the reputation of "Hell no I never took that, it's way too hard", but with people my age it's more like any other class. There are a few things which stagger students like integration by parts or the various integrals you must memorize, but I feel the public perception that it's some dark art for intelligent people only is thankfully vanishing. It really surprises me how successful my parents' generation was when the educational standards were so much more relaxed by comparison.

>>11051612
Oтвepниcь! Пyтeшecтвиe вo вpeмeни пpиближaeтcя!

>>11051612
You really can't fathom how dumb american public school students are if you have never experienced it first hand. The most incredible things will come out of people's mouths, and every effort is made to accomodate their faggotry from overemphasizing applications, which of course robs them of ever developing intuition and the ability to do abstract reasoning, and also simply teaching to the test. We literally train our students how to pass standardized tests and the teachers will purposefully tailor their courses to achieve certain test scores as funding depends on the relative average scores of students compared to those of the surrounding schools. I don't agree with what he said regarding analytic geometry, if anything we deprive people here of proper visual stimulus learning math and science despite again over emphasizing "visual learning" while not actually teaching people to visualize anything properly.

>>11050831
Calculus is too hard unless you Asian see?

>>11051753
In America: I.Q. = $$$

Culturally you cannot escape it, American education system.

When the children realise you've been raping their futures I wonder how many sanities will be lost.

Be sure even their intellectual elite would rather bitch and moan than join. It's like they are addicted to describing the big black clock that will inevitably fuck them to death (｡｡)( )

>>11051758
Tru dat, my Asiatic brotha!

Why not provide plain-speak mathematics for the plebs and high-elf for academia?

>>11051619
>Pre calc in my experience just laid foundations in algebra and trig you would need to prepare for calculus
This so much. Wtf is with all the retards ITT who think that like one or two specific concepts are the only important parts of precal? That class is supposed to reinforce the algebraic foundation that calculus is to be built upon.

>>11051886
Wish I needed to use this many words to justify a simple, "Tab A into slot B," style economy.

>>11051429
>solve 4x4s and 5x5s in reduced row echelon form by hand
how do you solve a matrix? wouldnt the rref of a square matrix always be the identity matrix?

>>11051431
slavic

>>11050831
>he thinks calculus is hard
>he thinks asians are honest in their studies and they definitely do not cheat
You observe the pattern here?
It means that you are not very bright.

>>11052475
watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ-56b_LvOw&
they are almost all asians
how many 18 years old americans could solve those equations?

>>11051910
Oh my bad. They mustve been 4x5s and 5x6s

>>11051409
How much is d((x!)^(x!))/dx ?

>>11051904
it’s two sentences you illiterate faggot

>>11052490
Isn't the purpose of calculus lost when people just try to solve random, complicated functions?
They treat it like it's a puzzle and it feels more like a very cheap way to get that rush of mathematical success.
But maybe there's a purpose I don't know about, I've only done Calc 2 for prereqs.

>>11053344
Before there were video games, all virgins had were masturbatory 'intellectual challenges' like this. Simpler times.

>>11052794

>>11050831
>what exactly do you learn at pre-calculus
Ideally, you would learn basic set theory, up to and including cardinalities, functions, relations, equivalence relations, the definition of real numbers, sequences and limits, arithmetic of real numbers, its metric space structure.

>>11050831
Why the fuck we would assume you're asian?

Taking calc at a university is very different from taking calc in high school or a community college.

>>11053484
I took Calc 3 in CC during HS and in university a year later when the credit didnt transfer

The biggest difference was that the professor in the latter was a much shittier teacher

>>11053344
absurd integration and differentiation problems are fun, they train you to enjoy self torture, its good for the spirit. boomers would say it builds character

>>11053499
Same, except for me it was the complete opposite. I'm glad my credit didn't transfer.