/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11028922

the cows are confused haha

>>11028939
Jesus Christ, he’s such a stuttering autist...

>>11028948
You must be new here.

>>11028939
>>11028948
The whole thing was fairly painful to listen to.

>>11028948
I would suck elon

https://www.humanmars.net/2019/10/artistic-photos-of-spacex-starship-mk-1.html

>>11028956

>>11028954
cumbrain

>bridenstine complains about spacex focusing on starship instead of dragon 2
>spacex quietly delivers dragon 2 to nasa a few days later
this just adds fuel to the anti-spacex fire

>>11028956
>i can be your angle

>>11028957
>...or yuor devil

>>11028925
>>11028938
Medicare Part D was passed under Bush Jr. In it, the proposition strictly prohibits negotiation of drug prices by the government. And the vote.

>Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003
>Medicare Prescription Drug Price Negotiation Act of 2007

Democrat plans to repeal this specific non-negotiation is blocked, by the Republicans.

>>11028962
>Meanwhile Boeing's Starliner is nowhere to be seen
>Yet somehow they don't deserve to be called out

>>11028956
>>11028957
it is in two pieces again, livestream here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aDOpyUmfL4

>>11028952
Elon doesn't speak normie, and probably some PR dick at SpaceX told him to dumb it down hence awkwardness. Interview with the everyday estronaut showed him in a pretty good light speaking naturally I thought

>>11028966
Yet somehow this was not addressed by the Democrat's forced passage of the Affordable Care Act in 2010.

>>11028971
Shame Estronaut's questions fucking sucked.

>>11028948
Yes, and? Howard Hughes was a massive germaphobe autist. Rich eccentrics with autism building cool shit is a time honored tradition.

>>11028966
>>11028973
In the nicest possible way, please just fuck off to /pol/ with this

Superheavy booster grid fins will be welded steel, not titanium like on Falcons

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/with_replies

>>11028973
Being left out of table is not the same as supporting it. It just means it was unpassable. This is why 2020's premise wants to change it.

>>11028979
That would make sense. Titanium gridfins would be prohibitively expensive. More so than their engine.

>>11028980
Quite frankly, I take it as pretty blatant proof that they do not give a fuck.

>>11028948
Relatable.

>>11028986
No, they just didn't have the super majority. The 60 votes was with 1 conservative democrat and 1 independent. One of the wanted public option gone and the other wanted abortion issues out. It was the best they could get. Without compromising with these two, it wouldn't have even passed.

>>11028996
It shouldn't have ever passed. Focusing on mitigating healthcare costs would have been a much more useful expenditure of time and effort, and the consequence of the ACA has been an explosion in healthcare costs and complexity of compliance in the field. The ACA was not a bill to reduce the cost of care, and its no mystery why it doesn't include efforts to do so.

Crew dragon max Q abort test coming soon.

>>11029007
We're either going to get to see a Falcon RPD, or they'll pull a Blue Origin and forget to tell the rocket that it wasn't supposed to survive (although the former is vastly more likely)

>>11029005
>the consequence of the ACA has been an explosion in healthcare costs
Wrong.
>The ACA was not a bill to reduce the cost of care
ACA was a bill to include 20 million Americans into the health care. Overall its not a cost increase but a same cost with 20 million more coverage.

>Cost reduction
Won't happen until you get a super majority democrats again or with democrat president who push for executive orders.

>>11029005
If you want cost reduction, you should write to your conservative legislators. Democrats are mostly onboard, its just conservatives who are blocking the legislators.

>>11029019
>>11029005
>>11029025
Fuck off to /pol/ holy shit why the fuck would you ever think flooding /sfg/ with american healthcare bullshit is acceptable I hope you die

>>11029028
This, what the fuck are these pricks even doing

>>11029019
>>11029025
Fuck off dems, you've done nothing but make my life more shit, fuck off to /pol/ fuck off GET OUT.
GET THE FUCK OUT REEEE.

>>11029032
hoes mad

This motherfucker has the potential to make shipping to LEO as cheap as shipping cross continent, and fucking replace intercontinental aircraft, and y'all are arguing over which group of retards in congress will posture more over pill prices

>>11029032
Cant argue with facts. Feels before realz

>http://archive.is/tFije
>Elon Musk’s Starship may be more moral catastrophe than bold step in space exploration
>"there is a risk that microbe-ridden humans walking on the red planet could contaminate it with bugs from Earth. And contamination may threaten alien organisms, if they exist."
>"If SpaceX was serious about planetary protection, I would expect to see a policy on its website, or easily found by searching “SpaceX planetary protection”. But that isn’t the case."
>"its public-facing content seems to suggest that pushing the boundaries of human exploration is more important than the consequences of that exploration."
>"I’m not sure that it is fair or ethical to expect astronauts to be exposed to dangerous levels of radiation that could leave them with considerable health problems – or worse, imminent death."


It's over muskrats the World will not let you destroy the environment or endanger human life!

Prepare for escalating resistance to your irresponsible and utterly destructive actions!

>>11029038
>This motherfucker has the potential to make shipping to LEO as cheap as shipping cross continent
I really hope so. Even if BFR makes going to LEO cheaper than the cheapest option available right now by even a little bit then it still has achieved greatly.

>and fucking replace intercontinental aircraft
Doubt it since rockets are noisy as hell and most places have heavy regulations on flying machine noise, but lets see how it pans out.

>and y'all are arguing over which group of retards in congress will posture more over pill prices
This. Keep the spaceflight thread about spaceflight.

>>11029051
This is why we can't have nice things.

>>11029038
>>cheap as shipping cross continent
It cost about $400 to move 1 metric ton by truck across the united states. Starship will probably cost in the range of $100 kg to LEO, or orders of magnitude more than a big truck.

>>11029051
the goal is colonizing Mars. Forward contamination CANNOT be avoided if you plan on living on another planet. It's just as it is.

>>11029051
>Eurocuck complain about America
NEWSFLASH

>>11029059
If you scale the cost by mile from Earth to Mars, then Starship will cost order of magnitudes less.

>>11029051
Then the groups who were really intrested in finding alien life and have the capability to do so shouldn't have wasted decades exploring a small fraction of a planet's surface before space opens up to everyone.

>>11029051
Fuck ayylmaos, we may permit them to exist so long as they provide something valuable or interesting for human beings.

>>11029051
>WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE PURELY HYPOTHETICAL MARS MICROBES?????
Christ.
Thanks for posting the archive link.

>>11029051
I see the multi-angle anti-offworld propaganda is in full force. Someone clearly has a vested interest against human beings leaving terra-firma.

>>11029051
Reminder that Mars and Earth have exchanged rocks through impacts for billions of years. Our planets are kissing cousins, any microbe that can survive the process has likely already set up shop.

I know it's bait but some might not have thought this through yet.

>>11028971
Yeah, i was listening to that interview and literally said out loud: hey wait a minute, this sounds more or less normal to me and im waaaay above average intellgence, this must be uncomprehensible for idiot normals

Any news on SLS? Is the first core still sitting at Michoud?

>>11029051
Also, if viri teach us anything about interaction with very strange life, it's that it's extraordinarily rare for very different lifeforms to interact with each-other at all. Practically all viri have never in their entire history of close biological interaction with human life ever caused us disease. Only a paltry few viruses have ever been capable of sufficient biological interaction with us to cause disease. The interaction between Earth-life and Ayylien life would be even more radically rare, our biologies having perhaps very little at all in common except their fundamental elemental makeup, although even that isn't guaranteed since life can at least hypothetically operate without a carbon base.

>>11029067
and we're talking about shipping to LEO being as cheap as shipping something across a continent which it appears it is not. Cost per mile is irrelevant here.

>2019
>Falling for the NASA lie

>>11029100
Their currently installing the RS-25s, been doing so since 2 days ago apparently.

>>11029051
it's a legitimate concern. Mars appears to have methane which shouldn't be there. This methane could indicate microbial activity or hydrothermal activity. So even the geological case is pretty goddamn interesting. If we contaminate Mars with Earth life we may not be able to determine if Mars ever had life. Finding life on Mars would be a pretty fucking big deal and completely change our view of our place in the universe.

Imagine believing in space

>>11029106
>>11029131
Eratosthenes debunked you 2200 years ago

>>11029126
>Finding life on Mars would be a pretty fucking big deal and completely change our view of our place in the universe.
Would it?

>>11029132
Don't give him attention. He tries to bait every spaceflight thread.

>>11029126
Earth-life by it's nature is not in most situations very durable in near-vacuum with extreme temperature shifts and constant UV irradiation, we aren't well adapted for it with all of our high altitude ozone and magnetic field. There are a rare few extremeophiles who could tolerate Mars long enough to contaminate it but they don't ten to occur on Earth around people because...they're extremeophiles. For humans to even be able to survive on Mars for long enough to discover Mars life we need to seal our bodies within fully enclosed pressure sealed environment suits which would protect us from one-another. On top of that, if landing vehicles on Mars is going to contaminate it because some extremeophile life got left on the vehicle by human builders then Mars is likely already contaminated, because we've already crashed a ton of hand-made shit on it's surface.

>>11029123
Finally! It's time to deliver.

>>11029123
Space Hop System when?

>>11029051
>I'm not sure it's fair to allow explorers with informed consent to take risks I personally wouldn't take
this is your brain on nanny statism

>>11029126
It's a "legitimate" concern if you ignore cost/benefit. The "legitimate" concerns of getting out of bed in the morning would keep us all bedridden if we thought in the same way.

Mars is already "contanimated", as I >>11029096 pointed out. We may find life there, but the chances that it evolved independently from Earth life within the same system are laughable. It isn't even a question of "contamination" vs. "no contamination" because we're only reducing contamination as low as we can get it while sending rovers, not eliminating it - and yet those rovers are many orders of magnitude worse at exploratory and science tasks than humans, and so are probably dirtier on a scale of useful science gained vs. contaminants added.

>>11029152
This, even if we assume that a well informed Mars team were to expend their lives in horrible suffering completely isolated from the rest of humanity because they became infected with an alien disease (this scenario being absurd in it's improbability), they would be ten thousand times the human being any boot-breathing pearl clutching Mars environmentalist could ever be. Even if Mars has a biosphere it would be marginal at best and probably either completely static due to having to subsist in nutrient-starved UV bleached dirt or on a geologically slow decline towards extinction due to complete nutrient starvation anyways, Mars' system literally doesn't have enough biological energy in it to even sustain moral actors who we could commit ethical injustices against.

Elon truly is a big brain individual:

>“Elon Musk Hired A Convicted Felon To Dig Up Dirt On The Cave Rescuer He Called A “Pedo Guy”

>The Tesla CEO paid James Howard-Higgins more than $50,000 to look into a man he thought was a pedophile. Musk, however, failed to examine Howard-Higgins’ past.

>Public records and interviews reveal that the man Musk contracted, James Howard-Higgins, stole money from his business partners and was sentenced to three years in prison for fraud. Past associates of the man described the Englishman to BuzzFeed News as a “Walter Mitty character” who repeatedly defrauded a company he cofounded despite disciplinary actions that were meant to keep him in check.

>Recently released court documents from a defamation case in US federal court show that Musk retained Howard-Higgins after the self-proclaimed investigator cold-emailed him offering to “dig deep” into Vernon Unsworth, a British expat who played a key role in the rescue of a boys soccer team from a Thailand cave system in July 2018. Unsworth, who had criticized Musk’s efforts to involve himself in the cave rescue, is now suing the billionaire for publicly calling him a pedophile and “child rapist,” an allegation partly based on unsubstantiated information given to him by Howard-Higgins.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ryanmac/elon-musk-hired-felon-james-howard-higgins-dirt-pedo-guy?__twitter_impression=true

>>11029126
If you dropped six random rovers on Earth, how long would it take them to find and excavate the Burgess Shale deposits?

If you dropped six archaeologists on Earth, how long would it take them to do the same?

>>11028979
>>11028983
And dont forget that SH will not come as hot as F9 boosters

>>11029166
>buzzfeed
>twitter_impression=true
normies get out

>>11029166
Two grown up insults each other, one of them cry about it. Guaranteed it will be dismissed.

>>11029141
>>in most situations
so there are some then?
>>don't tend to occur around people
T. aquaticus, a heat tolerant extremophile normally found in hot springs has been found in domestic and commercial hot water tanks. Some how it's able to get from hot springs to hot water tanks. Deinococcus radiodurans, the most radiation resistant bacterium which is also resistant to vacuum, acid, cold, and dehydration was discovered in canned food. So yes, extremophiles do occur around people. A very small amount of bacteria can replicate and contaminate more or less the whole planet.
>>landing vehicles
are heckuva lot more sterile than a rocket full of humans and their food.
>>11029164
we don't know for sure if Mars is already contaminated. Second contaminating Mars again could prevent us from knowing that life can spread via meteors which is an important science question in and of itself.

>>11029126
Then shit or get off the pot. Fund a mission to make it happen, or settle for needing to figure it out post-fact.

>Bros we totally went to the moon
>yeah, that aluminum can of a vehicle totally survived reentry into earth
>radiation? bro we just totally survived thanks to our tin can

>>11029184
basically yeah

Reminder, Space is HARD.
Private companies can't do space rockets.
Reusable rocket is impossible.
$60 million dollar rocket is a pipe dream.
I have SEEN SLS in Michoud, Falcon Heavy is fake.
Starship is a paper rocket.
Starhopper won't hope before 2021.
Starship won't be ready until 2030.
Tesla Man BAD.

>>11029191
and they call me crazy

>>11029184
I see you've never seen them in person. The outer surface is phenol-impregnated stainless steel.

a micrometeor killed kennedy

>>11029205
based psycho

>>11029181
They're planned to happen in the 2030s.

unless we expect to send drones everywhere we will eventually have to contaminate. Also either colonization is okay to pursue or not. There needs to be a firm conensus that yeah contamination is a problem sure, but the cost to benefit ratio is irrelevant to the broader objectives

>>11029211
>They're planned to happen in the 2030s.
Shit or get off the pot. Unless they're serious and unambiguous answer giving missions, they are not worth delaying the colonization of Mars.

>>11029211
>2030s
That's just a boiler plate for "not in any plans" because saying "we're not doing it" is bit of a political disaster

>>11029180
>we don't know for sure if Mars is already contaminated.
Once again, even if you throw out meteors as a propagation site, rovers are a ridiculously inefficient way of finding life which introduces new contaminants with every mission. This is unavoidable.

Maybe I should turn your "legitimate concerns" around and point out that the glacial speed of current discovery means that, if your concerns are founded, we're only giving the contaminants we are sending time to propagate. Perhaps a manned mission which can do in a few does what rovers will not accomplish in decades will stand a better chance of finding the last vestiges of that life before the evil human microbes genocide it completely.

>>11029279
few days*

The answer on contamination is, we never seriously expect to maintain it when we start sending manned missions. It's a semi-viable strategy for robotic missions because you can actually half-decently clean a probe, but the odds of finding extraterrestrial microbes with probes is so incredibly small that even then it's an afterthought.
No matter how much the anti-contamination side whines, considerations for all that goes right out the fucking window as soon as humans are involved.

Not a single important person cares about contamination. Even if we did BTFO any microbes on mars, it's high unlikely they would have been worth more then colonizing mars in the first place.

>>11029126
>our place in the universe
Out place is at the top
The end
Go be a soiboi somewhere else

>>11029051

Aaaaaand of course it's written by a fucking woman

And a Britshit one at that

The only country to ever GIVE UP the ability to go to space

>>11029328
The bongs remain a parody of humanity

>>11029330

Yup. Truly cucked.

Does she have a Twitter account?

>>11029301
if we discover life on Mars or that Earth life can spread to Mars NATURALLY, this makes our failure to detect extraterrestrial civilization more ominous. A higher rate of life emerging on its own or panspermia means that we should expect to see more extraterrestrial civilizations, but we don't. This might imply that the rate of civilizations self destructing is much much higher than we thought or perhaps even that something else might already be at the top...

The redemption arc begins
https://twitter.com/JimBridenstine/status/1179853879418052608

>>11029301
>>11029300
There is a group of people that want to turn us all into confused, demoralised pussies basically, complicating everything, sowing doubt and conflict, spoiling anything good or hopeful, and preventing the emergence of any unifying values. They hate optimism, they hate strength, they hate progress. And they're everywhere. I wish they'd fuck off and take their power mad manipulation somewhere else and let us get on with building the future.

>>11029328
>The only country to ever GIVE UP the ability to go to space
Courtesy of our bestest friends that totally don't fuck us over again and again and again, the Americans

>>11029336
I'm looking more for the escalation arc !!!

>>11029336
I think that "it's time to deliver" tweet was just a mandate from higher ups and not what Jim felt.

>>11029348
Nah, Britain can throw away it's history and industry without America's help. How's HMS Warspite doing?

>>11029334
On the other hand, if we do find independent life and it's not multicellular at all, that's an extremely good sign.

>>11029348
You cucking out was your own damn fault
Don't project your utter failure of an existence on everyone else

>>11029370
Here's a hot take. What if we're the only civilization because our level of intelligence isn't highly selected for, and humans are an environmental quirk? We're the only intelligent civilization we know of on Earth despite millions of species. Why would it be different in space? We'll probably find millions of worlds inhabited by complex but unintelligent life before we find another civilization.

>>11029348
America didn't fuck Britain into dying quietly, on their knees and cowed to the people who loudly proclaim their superiority over the lesser peoples, whose ideas, history, and heritage are quickly becoming extinct in Britain.

>>11029383
Extrapolating from a sample of one there though. Perhaps our circumstances were uniquely hostile to development of intelligent life

>>11029336
Discussing ways to speed up reviews, guaranteed. SpaceX wants to launch, they have their hardware ready. They just need the regulatory approvals. That's the current bottleneck.

>>11029365
>>11029375
>>11029387
America has hardly done badly from Britain's demise though, has it?

>>11029409
>inb4 SpaceX get's more regulations stacked on them

>>11029336
More to coom soon!

>>11029411
>America has hardly done badly from Britain's demise though, has it?

America has been doing well in spite of Britain's fall after World War 2, not because of it.

>>11029411
Cry more.

>>11029387
Yes they did

>>11029170
Why not?

>>11029427
>Yes they did
The destruction of British Industry and the "go down quietly with 'dignity'" are British internal affairs, not American influence.

>>11029383
> We're the only intelligent civilization we know of on Earth despite millions of species
Judging by our own past with our close relatives, two or more sapient species sharing a planet becomes one sapient species on the planet over a biologically brief period. It also seems unlikely that sapience would coincidentally evolve in short order from completely different origins at the same time.

I suspect that the life we share the planet with is sufficiently intelligent and complex that, barring another mass extinction, sapience would have eventually evolved separately if our branch had been wiped out.

Looking at Earth's history, multicellularity is a much bigger step than intelligence. And this is on a planet which "seems ideal" for life, if conditions were any worse it's likely that independently evolved multicellularity would be a complete impossibility.

>>11029417
Nah it will be like this.

>Ring ring
>Jim: HALLO?
>Musk: Hey Jim, this is Elon.
>J: Oh hey, whats up
>M: My team did some analysis on how to speed up the review process. Would you be interested in our proposal?
>J: Sure, why not. Anything to speed up, as long as safety is not compromised. You know what I mean?
>M: I know what you mean. So see you in a bit.
>J: Yeah

>>11029411
If anyone on this fucking planet stood to suffer from your demise Brexit would be going a lot more smoothly lmao

>>11029406
We haven't found any sign of a civilization within at least a couple dozen light years. If there was a civilization on Alpha Cent, we would probably know by now. Our circumstances could have been uniquely hostile to the development of intelligence, but that's highly unlikely because we exist. It's far more likely for intelligent life to exist in circumstances that favor it than those that do not (which is a bit tautological but it makes sense).

>>11029411
Not really, as one of the world's major economies if you guys do poorly it hurts us too. We're trying to offer you a hand though, if you'd just kick those suicide-obsessed eurotrash continentals to the curb we'd write you up a bigly yuge trade deal which would turn every British businessperson into a coomer overnight. It would be a great trade deal, the very best, truly very bigly. China.

>>11029426
I'm not crying, just saying that asserting the UK is singularly responsible for its decline and that there weren't other parties involved in helping it on its way is not in keeping with documented history. Specifically as regards the UKs decision to can it's space programme it's well documented that the US effectively betrayed the UK. Anyhow US it's starting it's own slow decline now as Asia becomes the most important region and migration ruins your breeding stock, SpaceX notwithstanding.

>>11029411
That's like America blaming it's decline on China.

>>11029435
If you think the US didn't have undermining the British Empire as a key strategic aim in order to seize power itself, you are doing your military planners etc back in early 20th century a disservice.

>>11029460
I'm not talking about the dissolution of Britain's global power in the 20th century, but the slow decline of the nation's psyche and self-destructive tendencies that it has embraced.

Talk about spaceflight you retarded faggots.

>>11029279
Except the risk of contamination is MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE when you send people. Rovers are rigorously sterilized while people cannot be. Humans are literal zoos of microbes, so is the food humans eat, the shit they produce, and everything they come into contact with. If we have an accident, we could spread debris over the surface of Mars that carries microbes to some place with liquid water, like the brines we have detected, or maybe some place with liquid water we've yet to detect. Something like a potato chip bag with metal foil on the inside and a bit of food debris could be blown over vast distances all while shielding microbes in the food from UV. Second, some of the science you need to do to find life on Mars still takes time regardless if you use humans or people. A great example of this is seasonal variation in methane curiosity has detected. Determining this required measurements of methane over multiple seasons and unfortunately we can't increase the rate at which Mars goes through seasons. In addition robots are getting better. The biggest advantage humans have had over robots is that they can pick up rocks on their own, but now we have robots on Earth that can do this. Oh yeah, and rovers have also been pretty slow because they've been pretty fucking limited by power because it's been expensive to send stuff to Mars. There's also a compromise we can make which is to send people, but keep them in orbit and have them teleoperate rovers on the surface.

Also, we're not at the point where colonizing mars is 'cancelled.' Right now we need to better understand what the fuck is going on with the methane spikes on Mars(the largest of which we detected this June), we need to understand the brines of Mars better, and we need to understand how Earth microbes really fair on Mars. All this will at least help us understand how much of a problem contamination is.

>>11029455
Only if there were profound ties between the two countries including shedding blood together in war, and then during a period of supposed solidarity against a shared existential threat China with calculated premeditation deliberately knifed America in the back.

>>11029473
>Also, we're not at the point where colonizing mars is 'cancelled.' Right now we need to better understand what the fuck is going on with the methane spikes on Mars(the largest of which we detected this June), we need to understand the brines of Mars better, and we need to understand how Earth microbes really fair on Mars. All this will at least help us understand how much of a problem contamination is.

Why should we care? The solar system is too old to develop complex life, now. If it's ambiguously Earth-like, there's no way to tell if life on Mars is just a case of panspermia or other cross-contamination phenomenon. If its unambiguously different, we can figure it out after the fact and regardless of the contamination of Earthly biology.

>>11029473
I miss the good old days when scientists and authors discussed concepts like seeder ramships and deliberate panspermia. Fuck off space environmentalist, life is cool and we should share it around a little, things thrive in an environment of competition and die in stagnation. New topic, how would Anons go about spreading life on as many planets as possible.

>>11029468
Our leaders are snakes, rig the system to keep themselves in power, and many of them are of a distinct ethnic group from the majority population.

>TFW no space station GF

>>11029210
Will coomers be allowed on Mars?
I can't imagine being able to furnish the willpower to stop masturbating for two and a half years...

>>11029470
Yeah, fair enough.

>>11029007
do you know when?

>>11029500
OY

>>11029502
you can be a covert coomer

>>11029428
speed anon
look at the size difference between F9 booster and 2nd stage and SH to SS. Even only 1km/s difference is huge.

>>11029506
I was thinking more of those with Norman heritage. There's good evidence for it.

We are off track though.

>>11029497
>Bussard ramjets
Shame that Geminga kinda ruined that possibility for us.

>>11029500
So cut the head off the snake and remove its public face.

>>11029526
The really sad thing is that I bet the UK would have come up with some great ideas had we had our own space programme. Still got a few top engineering companies left with the right spirit.

>>11029473
>The biggest advantage humans have had over robots is that they can pick up rocks on their own
Come on.
Maybe AmazonAGI will be online in time to load it on to a modified sexbot and send on its way to Titan; but in the time frame we're looking at Mars, humans are so much better it's not comparable. Even if we genocided all life on the planet, in the meantime we would learn more than rovers will tell us in the next 30 years.

>>11029451
The UK set themselves up to be betrayed

>>11029473
give me a time frame that isn't an infinity to do this

>>11029488
>>Why should we care?
so that we can better understand our place in the universe. Finding that life can either emerge independently on other planets or spread from planet to planet drastically changes the drake equation. This makes the great silence much more ominous and could have implications for the long term survival of the human race.
>>The solar system is too old to develop complex life, now
we don't know that for sure
>>there's no way to tell if life on Mars is just a case of panspermia or other cross-contamination phenomenon
we could by looking at the genes. However the issue with contaminating Mars with current day microbes is that they could out compete or contaminate the microbes that naturally made it to mars through horizontal gene transfer. Sure it might still be possible to determine that the microbes natural came to mars, but it's much, much, much more difficult to do so if there's contamination.
>>11029541
>>we would learn more than rovers will tell us in the next 30 years.
we don't know that for sure. Also, the only reason why the manned moon missions yielded so much science was because they brought rocks home. We don't need people to pick up rocks any more.

>we will never live in a universe where venus didn't turn inside out and is still earthlike
>we will never know if complex life developed on venus in the 2 billion years it was habitable

>>11029583
You aren't really addressing the question of "why should we care" effectively. The problem isn't intent, but of the apparent inability of mission planners and directors to deliver useful answers in meaningful time scales. Furthermore, remind me why a human mission to Mars isn't the first, last, and best chance at unambiguously answering the questions people have been trying to address with rovers for decades without success?

>>11029583
you are talking about setting things back possibly centuries so you can maintain your bioexlusion zone while pretending mars isn't already possibly contaminated

As if all the valuable research is bound to humans not contaminating the biosphere if there is one on the surface not sub surface which is far more likely.

It's a bizzare and damaging assertion.

>>11029583
If Mars had only simple life, the rovers probably won't find evidence on the surface. If Mars ever had complex life, our best chance to discover it is fossils excavation. Which requires humans.

>>11029593
>the cursed Venusian bonefields

>>11029594
>>last
that's right anon, it could be our last chance at detecting life on Mars because doing so could contaminate Mars and make us unable to answer big important questions EVER.
>>meaningful timescales
anon, some of these results, which we may not be able to obtain if we contaminate Mars, could have implications for long term human survival.
>>11029600
>>not sub surface which is far more likely
and spacex is considering landing on a buried glacier so they can mine water from said underground glacier for propellant, seems like they could contaminate the sub surface too.
>>11029608
Curiousity already detected a Methane spike. Second, there's no reason we couldn't land a something with a big drill on Mars.

>>11029583
>Also, the only reason why the manned moon missions yielded so much science
If we reduce our scope to touching a pod down to the surface briefly in order to say we did it, you have a point, but a BFR-style mission profile with multiple ~100t loads of personnel and equipment is a different ballgame.

>>11029622
>humans land on Venus and are greeted by a race of pink skinned all-female sex goddesses
>this was taken from us by some angry hot rocks

>>11029645
Gamble with people on mars and have them effectively search for it. In their possible contamination they will also be able to muster a rapid response. We are on what generation of rovers now? Do you really care for several hundred more models to scour the surface rather then to find a definite yes/no

Gas muh contamination dickheads

>>11029735
This anon, >>11029338 , had it right. The loud people don't care about contamination, instead they care about keeping humanity trapped in this gravity well.
>>11029735
I trust myself with that power, but I don't trust anyone else.

>>11029582
Earth microbe viability in martian analogs: see if bacteria from earth can survive on the martian surface. Probably happening right now. Go yell at the microbiologists and tell them to work harder, although research won't happen much faster than microbes can grow in cold environments and microbiology phds can be done.
BRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAPPPP-sniff one: send as many orbiters with methane detecting capability as a starship can fit. We want to identify where the methane is coming from within about 10 km. We need lots of orbiters so we can cover the whole planet almost all the time because methane plumes might be transient and sources could be small. Particularly important that we do this before starship lands because ANY methane leakage from starship would be enough to completely fuck this up. Even one cow fart full of methane would be enough to fuck things up. Mission duration: 1-2 mars years
Brine rover explorer: we send a dedicated astrobiology mission to a brine seep, which current Mars rovers have to avoid due to planetary protection concerns. To allay these concerns the rover should be extensively sterilized and built to self immolate at the end of its mission. Mission duration: 1-2 mars years. Might need to be pretty big unless the lander can land very accurately and is built to self immolate.
What happens next depends on the results of these experiments especially the BRAAAAAAPPPP-sniffer. Are the methane sources diffuse or point sources? Does methane come out in gradually or in bursts? If the brine-rover finds nothing, well that drastically constrains the possibility of life on Mars. It would also help us better understand how much of a problem contamination really is. You really can't put an exact time frame on it because as the old saying goes:"if we knew what we were doing, we wouldn't call it research." But, there's a good chance with all this that we find life or determine is much less of an issue than we thought.

>>11029793
meant to say:
"with all this that we find life or determine contamination is much less of an issue than we thought."

Are there any companies or programs looking into aerospikes these days? What's the industry vibe about them?

>>11029810
Only of interest for SSTO, seems to be the consensus. Two stage obviates justification as just fit differently shaped bells on each stage

do you think space porn would be popular? Cumming on Mars should be fun with all the jizz flying several meteers before falling

>>11029793
Biological Research Reconnaissance And Accurate Atmospheric Assessment Precision Probe: BRRAAAAPP

>>11029810
Firefly Aerospace currently has a SSTO spaceplane on the drawing board. https://firefly.com/launch-gamma/

>>11029824
A lot of shit will become popular just because it's different. Porn will likely lead the way though. Gay sex with HATS ON, coming to your local habitat faster than you want it to.

>>11029810
>Are there any companies or programs looking into aerospikes these days?
There's probably still some smaller companies looking into them.

>What's the industry vibe about them?
The general opinion is that they perform (in terms of thrust and Isp) just as well as bell nozzle engines except that they're heavier for a given power and size, and they can't really be clustered like bell nozzle engines. However, there's still a potential for aerospikes as they can double as a heatshield. A Starship-like upperstage that uses one big blunt aerospike on the bottom can allow it to forgo thermal protection systems (like the tiles on Starship) AND removes the need to do a backflip (like the Starship has to to) as the rocket would already be in the proper orientation to propulsively land.

>>11029832
anon no, think of the ballistic coefficient

>>11029810
Elon talked about it on everyday astronaut interview.

>>11029832
They could probably be made significantly lighter these days, the old test aerospike built by lockmeme and NASA was mandated to use already existing RL-10 plumbing and turbomachinery, which probably greatly restricted what could be done. It also used coolant pipes, these days you can additively manufacture a cooling jacket as a single piece. You don't have to cluster aerospikes because they're build out of "cells" of smaller rockets, this is especially true with truncated wedge aerospikes but can probably also be done with conical or truncated plug aerospikes as well. The only aerospike built and tested was using Hydro/LOX, a propellant which is inherently not going to deliver a high TWR compared to other rocket engines using Kero/LOX or Metha/LOX for similar mass flow rates. They perform much closer to the ideal thrust curve compared to bell nozzles, as they do not require different sizes of nozzle to compensate for underexpansion at low altitude or overexpansion in vacuum. There was only ever one made, I don't think it's necessarily fair to judge the concept based on a single extant example which was built purely to better understand the engineering principles, verify the functionality of the design, and generate data from ground firings. It think it is fair to presume that based on understanding of the XRS-2200's downsides a substantially improved design could be developed if the will and funding were there.

>>11029793
>ns next depends on the results of these experiments especially the BRAAAAAAPPPP-sniffer. Are the methane sources diffuse or point sources? Does methane come out in gradually or in bursts? If the brine-rover finds nothing, well that drastically constrains the possibility of life on Mars. It would also help us better understand how much of a problem contamination really is. You really can't put an exact time frame on it because as the old saying goes:"if we knew what we were doing, we wouldn't call it research." But, there's a good chance with all this that we find life or determine is much less of an issue than we thought.
time frame 30 years +

naw fuck that even nasa wants boots before that

>>11029887
Made a mistake, they weren't using RL-10 plumbing, they were using J-2S plumbing, probably because Rocketdyne had experimented once previously with aerospikes producing the J2T-250k

>still no supermassive space exploration craft
Why even have hope for the future...

>>11029889
there are private companies trying to sell BRRRRRAAAAAAPPPPPPP sniffing cubesats for earth. So perhaps the next launch window or two starship could send a canister shot full of them to Mars. I'll bet you could do it in one launch too with no refueling making it fucking cheap. Brine rover's gonna take some time though. Here's the funny thing though, even if we send diaper wearing shit factories, errr astronauts NASA sure as hell won't let them get near the brine on Mars. Even though it's a pretty good environment for life they won't let them get close because of contamination fears. Really the only way we can do this mission at all is with a super sterilized rover. Hell, we might even need to make it legal to nuke the site from orbit after the rover is done, because that's the only way we can be sure. Although perhaps rod from godding it might be enough. At the very least rod from godding it might be much simpler than coating the entire rover in thermite as is planned with the europa lander.

>>11029943
>tfw no giant ring of guns to shoot down asteroids

>>11029501
Do they wear bras in space?

>>11030037
how do space tiddies bounce

>>11030042
yeah

>>11030042
Allover the place, no gravity to hold them down.

>>11030037
Master Lucas himself insisted that there was no underwear in space.

>>11030049
there's no gravity to push them around, either
they just hang in place

>>11030051
Pornhub should fund a space mission to investigate

>>11030053
Starship will unironically make space porn possible and economically efficient.

>>11030071
>Hottie Space Cadet Gets Creampied By Her Not-Commander

>>11030000
nukes are better for asteroid deflection. Projectiles might cause the asteroid to fragment into multiple pieces. The nice thing about nukes is that you create a nice big pulse of X-rays that vaporizes the whole surface of the asteroid. This creates uniform thrust across the whole asteroid rather than at one point.

>>11030000
>>11030126
>Not bolting gunz an rockets to threatening asteroids
Ya gitz ain't gonna make it

>>11030124
>Zero gravities, maybe even fewer.

Would you ride the inflight abort test of the crew dragon?

>>11030124
>Stepsister FLOATS ONTO MY DICK

>>11030134
yeah, maybe it'll even blow me up

>>11030134
Yes but I'm borderline suicidal so that might not be fair

>>11030134
I want to eventually learn how to build rocket engines, not sit on top of them. Unlike many Anons I actually don't want to die even a little bit.

>>11029583
If we spread out and colonize the entire galaxy and take big fat shits on every marginally habitable planet we come across while ourselves living in habitats made from material mined from asteroids and even entire disassembled planets, then we'll know for sure we don't need to worry about any great filter anymore because we'll have humans and big stinky piles of rotting shit smeared all over everything.

>>11029828
>yet another super-advanced concept from a start up space company with ZERO launch experience
into the trash it goes, although it'd go there just for being SSTO.

When I get to mars I'm going to take a big fat shit in the warmest aquifer I can find.

>>11030051
Any acceleration, such as moving one's self down a corridor, stopping, rotating, etc is gonna make those tits flap around at least a little.

>>11030124
>Trying To Finish Facefucking My Girlfriend During Reentry Before Starship Lands

>>11030198
the accelerations are much lower than the ones experienced under 1 g

>>11030201
>Mom Saves You From an Embarassing Boner Before ISS Check-In

>>11029828
It needs to be...more lewd.

>>11030207
>Best Friends Explore Europa And Their Vaginas

>Ruff Landings starring Linda Lovelace and Laika

>Sasha Grey Rides Rocket For The First Time (Gone Sexual)

>>11030210
>My Girlfriend Seduced the Pilot and Now I Have to Land the Starship While She Fucks Him Next to Me!

>You Discover Life On Mars And It Hungers For Human Dick

This Ain't Spaceballs a Triple X Parody

>>11029054
Are rockets loud to the people on them? If you rode a rocket to meetings in China a few times a months would you go deaf quickly?

>>11030124
Docking Maneuvers: Cumming in Hawt

>>11030226
Sound can reach up to 142dB inside a payload fairing, however in crewed capsules a combination of capsule walls, insulation, helmets and headphones give them around 70-80dB of earpro, more than enough.

I'm going to Mars and building a big concrete tower mansion castle with 5in orbital defense railguns and tell the (((Terrans))) to fuck off

>>11030266
Earthers need to fuck off

>>11030266
>>11030276

>>11030301
hippity hoppity get the fuck off my property

>>11030301
>>11030304
>Don't take sky from me

>>11030266
>>11030276
>>11030301
>>11030304
>>11030306

>be uber libertarian
>want to leave this gay Earth to be free of taxes
>rebuild starship from scraped ones
>barely make it into space
>drifting in the void between Mars and Earth
>crack open a cold one and relax
>hear a knock on the door
>open the door to see an alien
>he gets down on one knee, makes this weird little hand gesture, pulls out a small device
>he points to a little box in the back, and says "take that!"
>you take what he offers as a token gesture and get back on your feet
>an alien dude with his eyes wide open and his head in his hands comes to see you, and you put the device under the guy's chin
>the alien guy's mouth goes full of bubbles, and soon his head is covered in them again
>the guy's legs go numb, and within minutes both of his arms are gone, and he's a ball of jelly in his own body
>the alien guy's eyes go wide, and he tries to get up but ends up in his own

>>11030266
Hello anon, the Terran Federation regrets to inform you that we will no longer trade food, medicine, spare parts, construction equipment, electronics, microchips, cutting bits, industrial diamonds, robots, CNC machines, 3d printers, reactor fuel, precious metals, gas sensors, life support equipment, life support system gas rejuvenation catalysts, molecular sieves, coffee, beer, wine, whiskey, KENTUCKY BOURBON, delicious 1g marbled non-vegetable based beef, computers, lubricants, precision petrochemicals, printer ink, paper, wood, clothing, sexual service robots, space suits, anime, anime paraphernalia, traditional Japanese knives, and fedoras with you until you allow freedom of navigation on the Martian surface. In addition, we are cutting off your internet service until further notice. However, due to compliance with intersolar postal union rules we will be delivering your most recent purchase of "Box Dragon Dildoes Assorted" at 7.5% c via laser accelerator. Please expect delivery shortly.

>>11030361
So it is war then.

>>11030361
Well, I must inform you Terra shall be experiencing a "meteor shower" very soon above the eastern sea board due to this action

>>11030394
Really an absolute tragedy that Phobos was accelerated into a collision course with Earth

>>11028922
more like /sg/ - soi general. star wars isn't real life cucks, stop falling for propaganda

>>11030421

>>11030421
Fuck you I'm going to space and finally fuck Tyr'ahnee.

>>11030378
>>11030394
Your package has arrived! You are receiving this message because you have not provided a confirmation of delivery.
ERROR: No acknowledgement from receiver detected, message resent
Your package has arrived! You are receiving this message because you have not provided a confirmation of delivery.
ERROR: No acknowledgement from receiver detected, message resent
Your package has arrived! You are receiving this message because you have not provided a confirmation of delivery.
ERROR: No acknowledgement from receiver detected, message resent
Your package has arrived! You are receiving this message because you have not provided a confirmation of delivery.
ERROR: No acknowledgement from receiver detected, message resent
Your package has arrived! You are receiving this message because you have not provided a confirmation of delivery.

And so both earth and mars were destroyed because of a rogue Amazon delivery drone and a really privacy conscious madman.

>>11030361

>>11030421
>such a cuck
>will die on earth with the soibois and diversity hires
>new crusader space reich becomes interstellar

>>11029126
This is true. However next generation scopes like JWST and dedicated planet hunters are going to find heaps of planets with biosignatures in their atmospheres in the very near future anyway. You are right though, Musks attitude to the scientific aspect of planetary exploration is 12 year old tier.

>>11030445
yes good goy star wars is real life

brehs...

>>11030411
Thank you for choosing Amazon Lightspeed™! your purchase(s) of "shipping container full of pussy and ass," "anal lubricant 113,979 liters", and "Semen, human(male) 20 tons" will be arriving at "PHOBOS(MOON)" 11.35°S 54.4°W within 2 minutes 33 seconds of receipt of this message

>>11030476
Millenia later the space federation of ayys will finally defeat the A'azoon menace that has destroyed large portions of the galaxys inhabitable systems with unusually sized and shaped phalli accelerated to near C

>>11030492
Your Amazon Prime Membership has expired! You have been gifted "Official Amazon Guide to Heretical Beliefs with foreword by God Emperor Bezos" with FREE Amazon Lightspeed™delivery! Your gift will arrive within 4 minutes 59 seconds of receipt of this message.

>>11028952

For you.

>>11029338

Its a moot point anyway. Wherever we go the Chinese and Indians are sure to follow, decades later, perhaps centuries later, sure, but when they eventually do they will not give one flying fuck about any ethical concerns. Unique and fragile alien life which has slowly evolved over billions of years? Or a bit of dick waving? The dick will win every time.

>>11030572
Worse they'll decide that powdered ayy penis enhances virility and hunts them to extinction.

>>11030580
Accurate

>>11030572
Fortunately, as long as the initial colonization wave is big enough and manages to take hold, they'll never be the majority.

>>11030612
Like Australia, New Zealand and Canada?

>>11030609
Ayycurate

>if it's tight it's right.

>>11030452
>11030452
yes good goy die on the planet and burn up as animals.

>>11030621
Make sure to select for colonists of childbearing age who want at minimum three children.

>>11030471
No anon I dont want to cry again today...

>>11030471
Right, how the hell WOULD Venus be terraformed anyways? The retrograde rotation alone would make it extremely difficult.

>>11030875
Personally this would be my method

>Deploy massive shades and wait for the atmo to freeze
>Run scoop machines around the planet with various machines to Sabatier, electrolysis and other process machines with the frozen atmo into oxygen, carbon/ammonia/etc and water
>Run fuckhuge YBCO rings around the planet and energise with massive solar farms to slowly increase the spin of the planet over decades/centuries

The best I can do senpai, Venus is retarded. Colonise mars.

>>11030885
The rotation is the easy part. You just need a shade and orbiting mirror that can create any day night cycle you like. No need to physically change the rotation.

>>11030890
I guess that's an alternative yeah. But the atmosphere composition and amount is by far the hardest part compared to the day length. When you are doing that retarded amount of atmo processing you might as well spin the planet up properly.

>>11030894
You can just berry the frozen CO2 and keep the planet colder.The Hard part is not the O2 but the insane amount of N you need for the armo.

>>11029166
On the one hand musk is a massive autist who should never have even been involved in this, on the other hand it's a white single british guy living in thailand, the dude is obviously fucking underage ladyboys.

>>11030899
A good compromise that doesn't involve importing a whole planet of N from Titan would be to sequestrate the CO2 until you reach a pressure level where niggas can roll outside without anything but an O2 mask.

>>11030904
Yeah that guy is suspect as fuck. Don't really care either way but it was hilarious.

>>11030909
>O2 mask
I guess this is a short turn compromise because you cant have your plants and bacteria outside domes. Man I just want to be a trader to Titan... Import N and export C...

>>11030915
You need to import a totally implausible amount of N. Even with magic fusion drives it's still basically impossible to move that much mass within a thousand years. Especially if you want it for BOTH Venus and Mars.

>>11030923
Mhm I guess glass domes it is. 1atm CO2 outside and 1 earth atm inside.

If, by some miracle we got Venus spinning fast enough to say reach the Pluto tier, would convection in the core restart or is it long dead? How do you turn on venus' magnet?

>>11030134
no

Besos on backorder

>>11031033
>Carbon fiber frame
oh no no no, we know how this story goes with space equipment.
How many years will it be delayed?

>>11030959
Much easier to park a super high voltage electromagnet in orbit to generate an artificial magnetic field or drop shades between it and the sun which are highly opaque or reflective to UV light.

>>11029064
This's even worse than that.

>>11031053
That would do the job for the solar wind, but what about cosmic rays, especially on the earth side of the magnetotail? Good enough?

>>11031107
Cosmic rays are probably still a concern but not in the same ballpark as getting your DNA blowtorched by solar wind if you stand outside in daylight for too long.

>>11029330
pls no bully, i'd kill to have the opportunity to turn the UKSA into a non meme

>>11030042
like in anime

>>11031122
Our satellite industry is good. Thats the usual cope.

>>11031267
Jesus, I can't even imagine the constant suffering that must be experienced by the Britbonglish rocket buff. Your upstart colony not only stole your claim to the largest and most powerful navy on the planet but also has by far the largest space program active in human history with a long nearly unbroken procession of heavy lifters which will in all likelyhood soon radically alter humanity's position in the solar system. When are bongs going to rise up and reclaim space? It's gonna get real boring if every space battleship in the solar system holds a United States Space Force prefix.

>>11031046
>How many years will it be delayed?
the study to determine how much the delays will be has ran into some unexpected dificulties. There are some very promising solutions that could hypothetically resume the process of analyzing the delays in the next 5 to 10 years

>>11031312
All enabled by Elon, American born and bre

oh wait

>>11031335
*African-American
If we're gonna get technical.

they call it Commercial Lunar Payload Services, but what the fuck are the actual payloads they're gonna land? Was it really worth killing the Lunar Resource Prospector Mission just so we could fund a bunch of private companies to land things, which things we don't even know, on the Moon?

>>11031335
>Mercury, Gemini and Apollo
German
>Space Shuttle
American
>Falcon and Starship
African

Seems to me the US has the skilled labour and industrial capability but needs immigrants for good ideas.

>>11031335
We're really good at poaching other nation's countrymen and maximizing their potential. We took Germany's autists and gave them the money, resources, and other clever teams of people to graduate from the Virgin 2 to the glorious Chadurn V, we took them from playing with mildly radioactive uranium oxide cubes in a tank of heavy water in krautland to detonating the world's first atom bomb here in the God blessed USA. We even took bongs government and turned it into something that at least isn't an overtly socialistic police state hellhole. That's what we're good at, taking your shit and making it better.

>>11031345
Almost like America is really good at grabbing up and adapting stuff from all the other countries or something, like some kind of weird melting pot.

>>11031312
Well word is we’re going to make a lunar a lander so as long as we get a man on the moon before the Indians it’s not too bad.

>>11031345
Yes we need more Boers and Germans

>>11031345
>>Mercury, Gemini and Apollo
>German
No. Those were American too. The designs were made by Americans, the German engineers pulled over by Operation Paperclip made a mast minority.

>>11031351
I mean they'll all need to go somewhere pretty soon, why not US?

>>11031354
>made a VAST minority

>>11031351
We need to very carefully manage the influx of Germans, their thirst for the blood of other Europeans can only be quenched by inventing turbomachinery and playing work-simulator games for so long. If we let them reach critical mass they'll start dreaming of world domination again.

>>11031354
Ofcourse.

>>11031342
NASA is getting serious about manned flight again and is looking at the semi-permanent presence on the moon. This is going the require putting a shitload of mass on the moon and seeing it looks like the private sector can actually do rocketry cheaper it makes sense to outsource that.

>>11031354
Project leads were German after the American lead projects resulted in expensive fireworks.

>>11031359
Didn't the last two huge culls of the German population finish weeding out the bravest of their genepool? Like a doubletap on the entire people, I don't think they're getting back up again.

>>11031359
Thats Okay with me

>>11031363
KrAutism is very useful when you're dealing with extremely complex machines in a time when the pocket calculator didn't even exist yet, computers were the size of entire offices, and the only kind of model you'd get is one you make with yourself. Why use a german these days though when powerful modeling software can be even more autistic?

>>11031366
Have you talked to many Germans in person? Their culture creates people that can declair war on the rest of the world and put up a good fight. Merkel knows this so is trying to destroy the German culture before they get antsy again.

>>11031369
You need someone to think of new designs or you keep making the same shit forever, while irritative computer design is starting to become a thing it can only improve a design it's given not make something from scratch.

>>11031267
Well, UK satellite industry *is* very good - world class in some aspects, in fact. UK also produces world class engineers and scientists, active in space research within the UK and around the world (probably more would stay if our own space programme were bigger). British scientists also played key roles in the moon landings, e.g. 'One of the more prominent Brits involved in the Apollo 11 programme was engineer Francis Thomas Bacon. He was hired by NASA and Pratt and Whitney to develop the fuel cells used in the successful Apollo 11 launch. The development of these fuel cells by Bacon was so innovative and ground breaking that later US President Richard Nixon told him, “Without you Tom, we wouldn’t have gotten to the moon.”'
There's also a decent amount of amateur astronomy in the UK, a fact you will no doubt laugh at, but which I think is actually pretty cool and important for the future. I'm not sure how many other countries can point to a space related TV programme running for over half a century, which we have in the Sky at Night, and which - important point this - features space science from all over the world, free of any narrow jingoistic concerns.

>>11031345
>>11031347
I was just baiting the baiter really, I don't dispute the US's success in space, or resent it. Fucking obvious the European zero-sum top-down worldview was going nowhere - they want to tax and control everything like fucking medieval guilds. Plus the continent is too full of NIMBYs to ever get much decent research done, whereas your deserts etc. certainly helped there.

terraforming an entire planet is expensive and pointless
if it ever happens it'll be way in the future and like an art project basically
>if you want a large area where there is trees, water, animals and shit, just build a giant ass dome
>living on a planet, in a gravity well, sucks if you are spacefaring
reasonably-sized o'neil cylinders, constructed from existing materials, are the future

>>11031379
Aye my granddad was good friends Sir Patrick Moore they were in the same unit in WW2 I think.

>>11031382
Depends on your goals, for the foreseeable future that is going to be research and possibly mining.
For research you want boots on the ground so you make something like an Antarctic base. Mining will most likely be the drones domain with maybe a tiny maintenance crew.
We are still a long way from our goal being living space and only then will o'neil cylinders make sense.

>>11031382
Humanity has never done things for practicality and efficiency
They've always done it for glorious dick waving, and that's what terraforming is

>>11031382
>>11031395
Isn't it going to be psychologically intolerable living indoors all the time?

>>11031401
Just send NEETs, we're used to it.

>>11031401
You will be able to go outside more often than a nuclear sub crew and I think for lunar research mission crews will rotate every few months.

>>11031382
>>11031401
You could also build big ass terrariums as a part of your cities. Have them for food and oxygen, a research area for biosphere adaptation, polymer and bio crude sources and large parks. For full sized extraterrestrial cities, it makes less sense not to

>>11031382
>reasonably-sized
>o'neil cylinders
Pick one. At least, if you want something that is even mildly livable.
Colonies will precede any functional O'neil cylinder by at least a generation and will continue to be those cylinders' lifeline thereafter. "Gravity well" concerns are also unimportant anywhere worth colonizing

>>11031415
Forgot the addendum: you are right that terraforming is useless garbage however

>>11031419
>terraforming is useless garbage
It's a huge long term investment, I imagine we will be past Kardashev I before we seriously consider it and at that point why not? Even if we just go the biological route and let it take hundreds of thousands of years.

>>11031354
>the German engineers pulled over by Operation Paperclip made a mast minority.

That vast majority was the people in position of powers, including the chief engineer Werner Von Braun.


what youre saying is this:

Toyota factory: 20 administrative employess 30 engineers 100 skilled workers and 5.000 unskilled workers...
by your definition that factorys majority of workers who matter the most are the unskileld ones

RETARDDOODO

>>11031415
You do realize that asteroids exist, right?

>>11031374
>Their culture creates people that can declair war on the rest of the world and put up a good fight.

their culture makes retarded autists and has a desire to kill itself and die suffering, which they did to german two times, and they want to do it again.

they were useful in the age of computers, because they favor right wing opresive mentality that people= computer.

but we have computer now

so the true freedom of right correctness, that has been objectively determined by rteralirtty, si left wing creative drawing artist musician that creates. slave machies? wnat to be then ok, but true master is left wing master creativity

>>11031407
>You will be able to go outside more often than a nuclear sub crew and I think for lunar research mission crews will rotate every few months.
you will be going outside NEVER

our psyches need to feel the breeze to feel outside. even antarcticans reserhcs cna go with a heavy coating of protection fur and experience some little windy against their cheecks of the face. but martian dwellers will go from one sardine can enclosure to another but with windows and closer, youre always buried alive once you leave the atmosphere.

>>11031382
Now I wonder if a turbo-autist could devise a way to speed up bernal sphere manufacturing by merging more conventional manufacturing with the old 'inflate a small nickel iron asteroid' concept. It would require some sophisticated mirror work, but steam or blast-forming small colonies' main hulls from a spherical forging might cut the overall infrastructure needs to the point we could consider starting construction in under 15 years.

>>11031445
>our psyches need to feel the breeze to feel outside
Speak for yourself, surface-dweller.

>>11031445
I know you're retarded, but you should do research before shitposting violently
People can and frequently will walk around on the surface to do shit

>>11031445
I was thinking more lunar than martian but in either case Boomer subs prove people can not see the sun for 6 months without losing it. Living conditions on either Mars of the moon are going to be better than that and on the moon a 6 month rotation is very viable.
As for Mars you are really going to want at least a 2 year rotation to allow for 6 months there, a years work, 6 months back. This is going to be much harder and we are going to need to make allowances for mental health.

>>11031342
>Was it really worth killing the Lunar Resource Prospector Mission just so we could fund a bunch of private companies to land things, which things we don't even know, on the Moon?

Yes. Those companies are the SpaceXes of the future.

Could you make three hull like this and have a robot weld it close? Obviously the assembly line woul cost a fortune.

>>11031470
Yep but as you said tooling is going to cost a mint and take years to build.
I could see SpaceX doing this once they have a design locked in that they know will be produced for a decade or two.

>>11031445
>our psyches need to feel the breeze to feel outside

Make a big enough underground garden and some big ass fand to create artificial wind.

This entire notion that people somehow magically require muh Nature to live is stupid to the point of insanity.

>>11031434
Asteroid mining still isn't going to come straight from Earth, at least not at that scale. You're still looking at colonies as a starting point, and when you consider that Mars/the Moon/Martian moons are both material sources and easy to lift off from, it starts to make more sense to use them as primary sources of raw material.

>>11031431
You know that the majority in management at NASA during the Apollo era were American born, right? Van Braun occasionally calling the shots doesn't make the rockets German.

>>11031481
This. The logical progression of orbital colonies is as follows:

1. low Earth orbit colony
2. Earth-Moon Lagrangian point colony
3. colonies orbiting Martian moons
4. asteroid colonies

>>11031493
That is working on the assumption that there is no existing space infrastructure and the first thing you build is colonies. That isn't how it's going to play out.
The first thing we made was space stations for LEO research, the next thing we make will be Lunar Gateway for Lunar orbit research. After that most likely is a lunar suface base for research possibly followed by a lunar base for mining.
When you consider all of this will exist before any colony it becomes clear than a lunar colony makes more sense as it can be built as an expansion of existing infrastructure.

>>11031477
>big ass fans
mission accomplished
https://www.bigassfans.com/

>>11031493
What I was running with here
>>11031459
Was what if you loft steel segments of a hollow sphere that are then friction welded and annealed in orbit. Then, you either introduce a quantity of plastic-encapsulated ice (just to keep it from sublimating prematurely) or a thermally-shielded explosive charge, seal the remaining opening in the shell, and superheat the whole thing. Then you either wait until the steam pressure builds and the shell expands, or you detonate the charge and hopefully end up with a giant thin-walled steel sphere.

>>11031486
>Van Braun occasionally calling the shots doesn't make the rockets German.

the designs consistently failed with american engineers

von braun was an OPEN NAZI

they did not want to put an OPEN NAZI OPENYL IN CHARGE

they had NO OPTION BECAUSE OF THE IMNFERIORITY OF AMERICANS

seriously, imagine if today americans needed to design a car., and all engineers americans are suddenyl REALLY REALYL BAD AT IT

so they have to call in osama bin laden, it truns out hes the best designer car alive

so
what do politician say, DO NOT DO THIS PR MOVE

but the engineers say: ITS EITHER USE THE BAD PEOPLE OR NOT HAVE THE TECHNICAL MACHIEN YOU WANT

so politician reply IF ITS ABSOLUTELY UNAVOIDABLE THEN LETS PR AS IF OSAMA BIN LADEN ISNTA S BAD AS IT SOUNDS

literally what happene,d literally why everyone forgot that Werner Von Braun was as nazi as hitler himself.

>>11031538
You could make habitats in space but I don't think it'll be worth while until they are o'neil sized and at that point it's worth having a foundry for processing metal on site.
Pic related is light enough and folds small enough to be launched on a single Falcon 9, imagine what a BFR will be able to put up.

>>11031555
I thought they purposefully made it too big to fit on a falcon 9 by like a couple of inches or something

>>11031560
Why would they do that?

>>11031470
Yeah, I'd imagine the reason it isn't done for Starships right now is simply because SpaceX wants to get the initial prototypes out fast and cost efficiently. Once you know what you're doing works then you can invest in really expensive tooling. To do it this way they'll have to establish an official Starship factory with attendant material costs, regulatory costs, worker costs, land costs, equipment and product transportation line costs, etc, etc.

>>11031563
because Dick Bigelow is a paranoid schizophrenic?

>>11031547
Look at all that empty space.

>>11031555
My point is such a technique would be a way to quickly deploy a 500m diameter bernal sphere, without needing as significant a build-up of on-orbit infrastructure. That BA-2100 is only 12.6m in diameter when deployed.

>>11031555
>Pic related

That is a BA2100, not BA330. It does not fit on a Falcon 9, as it weights 70 tons.

>>11031538
What if you had edge-interlocking panels that could be assembled into a large volume and then sprayed the inside with a vacuum-cure epoxy?The segments could each have attachment points on the outside for additional shielding panels, too.

>>11031571
500m dia = 785000m2
785000m2 x 1mm = 785m3
785m3 x 8,000 kg/m3 = 6,280 tons
6,280 tons isn't quick and easy.

>>11031576
My mistake, it will fit in BFR.

Morning thundershowers and a rainbow here at Boca Chica this morning. -NSF

>>11031555
You could make a mini-Oneil cylinder just fine, I detailed how I'd do it in a previous thread. Essentially you have an unfolding frame made of some very light alloy, about 20m tall and able to expand it's very thin arms in a scissors-like method similar to solar panels powered by small electrical motors or pressurized gas or something like that. You build them so they can be clamped together to form a long skeleton. At that point you can use either expandable hab material or just strips of metal and using the self-expanding frame as a base you construct a cylinder out of distinct hoops or plates which go over it's extended spars. You then apply endcaps, pressurize the whole lot and attach a power and propulsion module to one end and a docking module to the other along with supply modules, environmental systems modules, whatever, then once it's all ready and supplied you set it spinning. There you have it, a small O'niell cylinder with modular adjustable length which can grow or shrink in 20m increments. You could make it even easier to build big if the spar arms are attached to the 20m long hub separately, a cheap reusable launcher could supply you with bundles of them that snap together like tent poles. A cylinder with only a 100m radius spinning at 2rpm would give you a nice .44g, more than enough that just some daily weight training should be able to preserve your existing muscle and bone mass. That's assuming that people are completely unable to adapt to and tolerate higher spin rates, if I'm not mistaken people can get used to 3-4RPM without the use of drugs so you could probably get that even smaller so long as you give your astronauts some ground training and time to adapt.

>>11031595
>Starship Mk1 is gay confirmed

>>11031595
A sign of God's covenant with Elon to never again blow the nose off his spaceship.

>>11031603
>>11031606
The duality of man.

>>11031590
It's an order of magnitude faster than trying to set up a lunar mine, refinery, and foundry. Flying that much steel to Lunar orbit with Starship should be only about $2B in "shipping costs".
>>11031589
It depends on whether it makes more or less sense to bring up thick plates and form them, or thin plates that are already at the right curvature. Thin would be less risky, but it would require a lot more labor.

>>11031470
Apparently the thickness of the metal varies depending on where the ring is located on the craft, so it would require swapping rolls of stainless in and out or having multiple machines with their own thickness.

I really don't think making the hull pieces is going to be a limiting production factor when it's just taking a length of stainless steel, forming a circle, and welding it together. At their Florida build site they already have dozens tons of rings ready to go.

>>11031613
>lunar orbit
to clarify, I think we can use that as approximate shorthand for L1/L4/L5 as well as lunar orbit.

>>11031589
I'd go with "panels" made up of para-aramid material which can be injected with insulating foam, as is being done with Bigelow habs and other proposed expanding habitat modules. This method makes the construction material lighter per the volume it can enclose, and much smaller to store, it also gives better radiation and projectile shielding.

>>11031597
There are plenty of ways to do it, my point is you can launch pretty big habs from Earth so if you are going to go for in-space construction using a metal rich meteor you might aswell go fucking huge and process that metal onsite rather than lanuching huge masses.

>>11031613
>trying to set up a lunar mine, refinery, and foundry
You misunderstand me, I'm saying you do that for your 2km long o'neil and for anything smaller you go inflatable.

is it bad form to Shelby-post on other boards

>>11031628
Yes, because Shelby posting is very much an /sfg/ meme.

>>11031632
oh well somebody abbreviated something to SLS and now I'm Shelby-posting at him

>>11031623
I disagree for the moment, we can do huge projects now that we have an up-and-coming cheap heavy lifter, and free market competition willing we'll have more of them cropping up over the next five to ten years too. I think it would be less costly to just launch the shit with cheap heavy lifters than to perform ISRU to make them in space. Not to say ISRU techniques shouldn't be developed, they absolutely should, just that we can get big projects done right now, quickly, with relatively low cost without having to lean on ISRU. Earth is incredibly rich in what we'll need to do big space projects, we have the industrial base already set up, the processes don't need modification down here, and now we're probably just a year or two away from having the vehicles to take lots of them from here to space.

>>11031628
I just don't think they'd get it.

>>11031637
We just have very different views of mans spets into space, you seem to think colonies are the main priority while I think >>11031520

>>11031635
Good, My fellow American. Good! Spread the word of America's most powerful and safest rocket ever made. Tell them that the SLS (pbui) is the only way America can go into space, because it's real.

>>11031640
it's all about dv to a destination, and Lunar Orbit is closer to Earth than Lunar surface
Mars orbit is farther than Mars surface, however
>>11031646
(pbui)

>>11031476
Roll on that day. I can't wait for the utter carnage in the industry when mass production of SS/SH commences.

>>11031477
>This entire notion that people somehow magically require muh Nature to live is stupid to the point of insanity.
Disagree, there's evidence to show it helps mental health

>>11031648
I get that I just think we will have a shitload of space infrastructure before colonies are a priority. We are seeing commercial interests starting to become viable and colonies only cost money while mining rare earth metals offers huge gains. If you have mined it and need to get it to earth you want to save all the dv you can so you refine it on site. Now you have a refinery with gigatons of metal in space as the starting point before colonies are a thing.

>>11031640
>>11031520
Consider a spin-station (torus, bernal, etc) with a population capacity of 10,000 put on a Mars Cycler orbit. Yes, it would be slower than using Starships on one of the legs, but it would be safer and more comfortable while still moving more people.
You couldn't use this station as a colony vessel at first, because you would still need enough ships and fuel to ferry people off and on as it passed by Earth and Mars (not to mention the fuel and energy to get the station on its cycler orbit in the first place), but a system of such cycler stations might be the best way to ferry large numbers of people out with as little acclimatization as necessary.

>>11031663
That effect can probably be replicated with large underground living spaces, just paint the roof blue and turn on a fan, maybe grow a few flowers and import some butterflies and bees.

>>11031670
I agree that is going to happen eventually, I just think there will be infrastructure first, see >>11031667

>>11031613
Requires more labor but as a process is much more robust against things going wrong

>>11031675
>Martian colonists dislike living in cramped metal tubes
>they make giant "terra rooms" to recreate being outside on Earth
>they import some bees and flowers from Earth to make the experience more "authentic"
>somehow the conditions of one such terra-room is perfect for the bees to flourish
>the conditions are replicated on multiple terra-rooms, now called bee-rooms
>eventually the population of bees on Mars gets greater than the bee population on Earth
>Earth starts buying bees from Mars to fight the bee-crisis
>many owners of bee-rooms become filthy rich
>would later be called "queen bees"
>the queen bees would use their weath and power over Earth via the bees to gain Martian independence
>this event is forever immortalized in the Republic of Mars seal in the form of a giant bee

>>11030894
Could a surface-based mass driver firing continuously fling enough processed CO2 from Venus to Mars to spin the former and warm the latter?

>>11031710
>martian bees are use to 1/3rd gravity
>when sent to earth they can't fly
>take to walking
>over several generations the wings become vestigial as the legs grow stronger
>earth is now covered with a mat of walking bees

>>11031710
>Terran invasion of Mars
>shock troops met with defensive cloud of bees several miles wide
>>11031724
Big bees should come back.

>>11030471
Mars can't be terraformed with current technology.

>>11031765
Sure it can, there are bacteria that will survive there with a little help and in a few million years it'll be done. What's the big rush?

>>11031765
Not all the way, no. It will need a lot more water to restore the original oceans' extents.

>>11031401
he said on 4chan

>>11031547
>illiterate redditor peddles revisionist propaganda
Checks out

>>11031825
I can't help but marvel at the sheer desperation some people have to make sure humans don't leave Earth.

>>11031840
How was realizing that the German contribution to the American space program was insignificant by the time of the moon landings "making sure humans don't leave Earth"?

>>11031850
It's not directed at you, sorry for the confusion. It was just segueing off of your comment towards Mr. "MUH NAZIS."

>>11031773
Why would you bother? The water from the icecaps would apparently form almost the entire northern hemisphere into an ocean. There's too much water in that situation.

Why don't we just use mass drivers for a reasonable level of acceleration to assist SSTO's to carry larger payloads or use less fuel? Why do people think mass drivers should go into backbreaking acceleration or be taller than Mt Everest?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlY7o0qAdqQ

>>11031773
>>11031887
Looks like there's even more:
"More than 21 million km of ice have been detected at or near the surface of Mars, enough to cover the whole planet to a depth of 35 meters (115 ft)."

>>11031897
Because mass drivers turn everybody inside in jelly.
The G's you need to escape earth's gravity are above what a human can handle.

>>11031897
M O N E Y

>>11031897
Because they're enormous, it's true that they're a more familiar megaproject and governments spend money to build enormous roads and bridges pretty often, but something of that scale hasn't been done for space before, and nobody's ever built a mass driver even a fraction as large as you'd need to accelerate space vehicles of significant tonnages. I'd support it though, build what is essentially a bigly bridge out into the gulf and prop your mass driver rails ontop of it, the bridge can be skeletal since it won't need to have cars driving over it, just a frame of girders to support the weight of the driver rail.

>>11031928
reading comprehension of a fucking orange

>>11031897
>reasonable acceleration
>meaningful assist
>small size
pick two

>>11031933
No you retard, the force needed to launch a second stage/ssto would still turn everybody in to blood pudding you fucking bernie fag.

>>11031945
not if you made the thing xboxhueg

>>11031930
Building it off the Space Coast or Gulf, you need to build it for hurricane force winds at high altitudes. Hardly skeletal.

I want Elon to make an April Fools joke next year about swapping Superheavy out for the Aerojet 260" solid. Imagine the plume.

>>11031953
Skeletal compared to commuter bridges, which need a lot of extra material just for cars to sit ontop of. This hypothetical bridge will be nothing but it's anchors and the structure necessary to support the mass of an accelerator.

>>11031969
Support the mass of an accelerator being buffeted by 350km/h winds over decades without failure and with questionable maintenance schedules (as a piece of American infrastructure). Several kilometers above the sea. I'm not a structural engineer but that seems like a Hard Problem™

>>11031897
Because using a second stage is easier

>>11031979
It is, but it's probably not insurmountable, structures like the Burj Khalifa and Burj Dubai experience permanent gale force winds and their engineers have been able to successfully account for the problem using a combination of structural shaping and counterweights. One part of the solution would be adding in proper counterweights so if wind starts to swing the structure one way the counterweights move precisely as much in the opposite direction, like leaning away from your turn on a motorcycle to keep yourself from falling over. Another is structural flexibility, you build the upper parts of the structure with the assumption that they're going to flex and move a good bit, another is shaping the structure so wind has minimal effect on it, perhaps a series of strategically placed and shaped windbreaks and aerodynamic shells which allow most air to flow around the structure without depositing too much energy into it with the rest to redirect the wind that does hit into a path which is predictable so compensatory structures like shock absorbers, pistons and counterweights can cope with it.

>1st all-female spacewalk on the 21st

>>11032067
Better keep a guy suited up on stand-by/

Is it me, or is there an uptick of anti-spaceflight posts lately? Here and in other threads about space.

>>11032082
Most spaceflight threads elsewhere tend to attract the "space is fake" and flatearth fags, moon landing deniers too. They're just lazy trolls.

>>11032082
(((They’re))) at it again

>>11031912
We still estimate that's only about 1/6th of the planet's original water volume. That would get you to something like the second image in this sequence, which is a big improvement but may not be what we want for the final result.

>>11032104
>what we want for the final result

>>11032104
Terraforming is so far in the future that it doesn't matter, if we don't have at least a partial Dyson swarm by then we don't deserve new planets. And if we do, we can just yeet comets and asteroids around as desired. We could put Ceres into orbit around Mars with that sort of energy.

>>11032082
Not much news after the Starship presentation. The hype drove the posts weeks before Starship. Now we're cooling off. Give it another month for another batch of Starlink launch, then followed by CrewDragon abort test, another set of Starlink launch, then few more, then 20 km Starship, CrewDragon to ISS.

>>11032123
>Terraforming is so far in the future that it doesn't matter
Au contraire. It would be a significant project, but its energy demand per square km is very low, and once turned on it would only take about half a century for a runaway effect to melt the caps.

>>11031555
*micrometeor tears the wall*
OwO what's this

What are you waiting for to invest in SpaceX. You'll be billonaire in 30 years, I tell you

>>11032161
This, once you have a higher Isp nuclear rocket like an atomic lightbulb drive or an NSWR you can move comets onto intercepts with Mars within human tolerable timescales of a few decades at a time, you send out many propulsion units at once so the comets return in waves over the next ten or twenty years. Just cover them in a thin reflective foil to protect them from the sun as they drop deeper in system.
>>11032178
Expando-habs are more durable than their soup can counterparts.

Planets are shit tier colonies for space faring species. It's far more mass efficient to extract planets and form them into O'neill cylinders and other more efficient forms of habitable area.

>>11032199
Planets are the next big thing. Launch yourself to Mars, build dozens of 1 km diameter sized cities with full environmental where people can walk inside. Once you have mars colonies, you can then set up trade spots between the two planets and have ships that can travel between the two frequently.

SpaceX crews are hard at work today with StarShip back in two halves, tubing and wiring is seen going along the shaft of the prototype. StarHopper is being set up on the roll lift, for possible move to test stand site and the launch pad is preparing for phase 2 of testing.

https://twitter.com/austinbarnard45/status/1180218034683858950

>>11031800
I'm not like the rest of you

>>11032232
>I'm not like the rest of you
I can't stand pain, it hurts me!

>>11032186
For them to IPO

>>11032249
you can invest in SpaceX right now through the secondary market. i.e. investing in Alphabet (google) who in turn invests in SpaceX.

>>11032249
Never going to happen as long as Musk remains alive. He won't give up stability of his company for insane amounts of headache

>>11032252
>Investing in (((Alphabet)))
I guess Elon will have to wait.

>>11032252
I've heard this before, but I don't really understand how it's investing in SpaceX. It's more like investing 5% in SpaceX, and 95% in the rest of Alphabet's ventures. And I don't give a fuck about the rest of google's ventures.

>Love SpaceX
>Don't want to become a muskdrone
I'm just assuming all his time tables are going to be 2 years late at least.

>>11032279
>complain about Musk all the time
>complain about Starship/Falcon9/Reusable/FalconHeavy/Dragon
>yet secretly, in the back of your mind, happy because we're living in a time where you can literally get almost any information about Rocket development daily from the guy that I "hate"

>>11032279
>I'm just assuming all his time tables are going to be 2 years late at least.
that's like 20 years earlier than every other spaceproject datetimeline in hsitoriy

>>11032279
So you think the SS hop is going to take 2 years and 2 months? I'm not betting for it to be on time but it will definitely be closer to the target than it will be to that.

>>11032186
I would if there was a good way to do it

>>11032298
space tsundere

>>11032199
O'Neils will never have more resources than you put into them, they can never be self sufficient, they are inherently importers.

Ok lads, what's the best degree to go into space word? I'm pretty sure it's mechanical engineering, but I would like to hear suggestions.

>>11032328
Yes the universe is constantly increasing in entropy.

>>11032331
compsci

>>11032322
I give 50% chance for 20 km happening this year. 100% chance next year. If 20 km happens this year, I give them 80% for 100 km happening in the next 6 month (after 20 km). If it happens next year, then 50% chance. Whatever the case, there's a strong 80-90% chance 20/100(space) km will happen next year.

Its silly to think they'll sit on their ass for a year doing nothing.

>>11032331
Mechanical Engineering + Electrical Engineering

>build/fix ship
>build/fix electric components

>>11032335
it's really out of their control, the FAA does not fuck around and might just shit on their plate because it's something new and different

>>11032335
Yeah, those sound like fair odds.

I would point out that the target after 20km is orbit, but I don't buy that myself. I feel like the thinking there is very blue sky (20km without a hitch, raptor production unabated without engine issues, SH prototype completed before SS followups)

>>11032334
Wew I already have a com sci bachelors. But considering I've never welded or done any kind of precise machining in my life, I figured I'd be very unqualified. Guess I should just decide if I want to more or not and apply already.

>>11032343
Yeah, I expect to see suborbital Karman line jumps out to the middle of the Atlantic targeting a drone ship to test EDL and reentry

>>11032344
pic up welding in your spare time, take weekend classes at the local community college for it if you aren't willing to jump into such a dangerous hobby self-taught

>>11032344
Buy a cheap welding machine from Amazon/HarborFreight for $100. Those things will weld fine for small/medium things. Watch some youtubes, practice/practice/practice. Its cheap these days. Back 10 or 20 years ago, these shits cost $$$$ of dollars, but now anyone can do it in their home. One good thing about China, every electronics got cheap while still maintaining relative quality.

>>11032351
>Dangerous

Hardly

>>11032360
more dangerous than coding

>>11032279
Elon time is calculated by changing all of his predicted dates relative to his target to the Mars equivalent (1 earth year = 1.88 mars years). So in Elon time, SS Hop is 3.76 months out, first orbit is 11.28 months out.

Are there any current companies that plan to send partial-gravity (ie 1/3rd g) toruses to LEO? Or is that still just dreams and memes?

>>11032435
The only thing close that I can think of is total vaporware, but it's less nonsense than most of the other projects.
>https://gatewayspaceport.com/von-braun-station/
Their big problem is at least three major technologies required for their station to be built at all have yet to be demonstrated in space, though within about 3-4 years at least one example of each should have been demonstrated. They also have some weird design choices (that many escape craft is a horrible idea), but otherwise the basic concept is sound.

>>11032429
That's pretty much exactly the timeline I would have pegged it at desu

>>11032455
No I mean like two cubesats tied together with fishing wire and thrown off a Falcon rideshare

>>11032465
For what purpose

>>11032465
>>11032469
Yeah, didn't we already do tethered experiments a little on Gemini? I'm not seeing the point of something that low-level.

>>11032469
Do you have a cheaper way to simulate the surface gravity on Mars?