/sci/ - Science & Math

Back to /x/ with you sir!

>>11005252
When did ants tap into their thirst for gold? Why are dogs so greedy? Why are birds falling from the skies every day? I see a lot of holes in your theory, meeen

>>11005573
Not an explanation
explain those:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0380133008700017

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3889830/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237336076_Zinc_cadmium_and_cobalt_inter-replacement_and_relative_use_efficiencies_in_the_coccolithophore_Emiliania_huxleyi

http://www.jbc.org/content/267/9/5842.short

etc.

... what ?

>>11005252
Are you saying zinc is bad because it competes with copper and cobalt in the body and we don’t need it?

>>11005573
https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.4319/lo.1995.40.8.1404

>these results indicate that Co and Zn can replace one another metabolically in the eucaryotic species. Associated with this replacement, there was up to a 700‐fold increase in cellular Co uptake rates with decreasing Zn ion concentration

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Inorganic_Chemistry/Book%3A_Bioinorganic_Chemistry_(Bertini_et_al.)/2%3A_The_Reaction_Pathways_of_Zinc_Enzymes_and_Related_Biological_Catalysts/Metal_Substitution

>Cobalt(II)-substituted zinc proteins often show about as much activity as the native zinc enzymes (Table 2.4). This is a general characteristic of the cobalt-substituted zinc enzymes,24

>>11005595
I'm saying zinc is bad because it replaces other metals in enzymes because it has much higher affinity than other metals, but either doesn't work, or works differently than the other metals. We may not evolved to deal with the zinc, if the free zinc is largely from human activity. Which means that the body has no good way to prevent the zinc from replacing other metals, which leads to "aging". It was naturally assumed that the present zinc is what belongs to the enzymes, since that's what was there, but what actually belongs there may be something else, very likely cobalt, but possibly other metals as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving%E2%80%93Williams_series

>>11005595
He's sowing anti-science seeds.
He saying that we used to be immortal until those dang ole scientists fucked it up by giving us zinc to kill is off

>>11005604
Yes this is all true. People who take regular zinc should also take copper. I used to take it to max my testosterone. It worked. I did puke one morning tho. >>11005615
Yea I get that and I agree with the first part but don’t we need some zinc? The problem is that too much zinc leads to low copper levels.

>>11005618
Nah. He’s implying we started incorporating it due to the pervasive influence of alchemy.

I was wondering if he is saying it has zero value in the human body and if it should be entirely replaced with cobalt/copper?

>>11005252
>>11005252
If you can prove to me that the middle east/med region of the world lacked a pre new testament source of zinc in their diets and connect it to the reported length of the lives of Noah and many others, then I will believe you

>>11005252
Oxygen is always trying to kill you despite keeping you alive

How do I build testosterone without zinc?

>>11005758
I don’t know if you can but if cobalt does the job of zinc better than zinc then it should work even better.

>>11005252
god bless the stiencists, as for that I am able to die without having to kys my shelf

>>11005629
>Yea I get that and I agree with the first part but don’t we need some zinc? The problem is that too much zinc leads to low copper levels.
The problem is it isn't only copper, but likely other metals as well. Cobalt as I mentioned, but there may be others.

>>11005635
Possibly zero, yes. But there may be other metals beyond cobalt.

>>11005648
I guess that would be hard to do and "pre new testament" would be far too late, at least in the middle east, thugh there might be areas not affected that much until far more recently. What could be actually done is to test if higher animals can also live with cobalt in place of zinc (fed low zinc, food with cobalt addition) and if they are healthier/live longer.

>>11005747
Zinc is actually involved in a mechanism of oxidative damage. The iron falls out of the protein as it gets oxidized and zinc takes its place, disabling the protein.

>>11005789
yes

>>11005252
>"Prove me wrong" bullshit
>faggot OP with a name and tripcode
>WTF is this shit?
OP you're stoned. Go to bed.

>>11005252
Why have you still not addressed how there are a lot more aging and dying biological organisms out there than just humans?

>>11007133
lol this

>>11009379
Why would I need to adress that? It wouldn't be expected, everything got poisoned, including other animals.

>>11009614
Quite impressive retardations levels you are developing anon

>>11009614
>everything got poisoned, including other animals.
Why did dinosaurs age then? You said this was because "people started using zinc oxide." People didn't even exist yet.

>>11012024
What makes you think they did age?

You can't have life without death.

Do kot try to bend the spoon.....that is impossible. Instead, try to see the truth......

>>11012052
>>11012179
What are you two talking about?

>>11005252
except this doesn't just happen to humans it's happened to 99.9% of all life on the planet and even running space experiments

>>11013528
>except this doesn't just happen to humans it's happened to 99.9% of all life
99.9% is exaggerated, but yes.

>and even running space experiments

What

>>11012052
What does it mean you cannot have life without death? Why not?
https://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html

what is your historic evidence that zinc oxide was used in the past?

>>11018081
That should not be controversial, that's how brass was made until modern times. Zinc as a metal was only discovered during the renaissance.

>>11018418
brass is pretty much never used though in modern times. if brass was the true culprit and we stopped using brass, then either the damage was permanent and there's nothing to worry about, or you're wrong and brass isn't the culprit

>>11018509
Zinc is added to food and fertilizer now, because it's beleived to be essential, instead of cobalt.

>>11018536
i cant find any evidence of zinc addition to food, please share what information you have, i'm curious

>>11014000
I mean mortality isn't regulated to earth if you plant fungi and plants in space or on the moon like we have they still die eventually, thinking mortality is something that we caused by accident is ridiculous when it occurs under almost every condition imaginable, that inlcudes not on earth

>>11005252
This is an interesting theory, maybe saying we live significantly longer rather than forever would be a more humble representation.
You could try this to test it though, plants with low zinc levels in the soil exhibit recognisable symptoms of specific deficiencies. You would need to do a little Chem but grow some suitable species of plant in a zinc free soil, wait till the plants get all sick and malnourished, then supplement the soil with bioavailable cobalt and see if it makes the plant healthy. If they can grow substituting cobalt entirely for zinc than that is some evidence for your argument.

>>11018895
It is considered an essential nutrient, and supplemented usually through fertilizer. No way you cannot find it.
>>11019402
Plants do not age, neither on Earth or elsewhere. Some are programmed to spend all resources on seed production at the end of the season/eventually, but that is not the same as aging. A tree will live until something destroys it.
>>11019419
The point is we would not get more and more ill with age, yes. Not literal immortality, but you would live until something kills you, rather than dying for no reason.
It has been done with simpler organisms, as I linked above, but not with higher animals or plants.

>>11019419
I think of using hydroponics instead, that should be easier than getting zinc free soil.

>>11019419
>If they can grow substituting cobalt entirely for zinc than that is some evidence for your argument.
If partially, it may also mean that another metal is necessary.

how do you even take cobalt and copper through diet?

So how would I go about the diet, also will this help with my mental issues since it will reverse aging?

>>11005252
What about the destruction a body goes through throughout a lifetime? Do you have an idea of a way to live forever?

What is the zinc free diet and how do I do it, i have schizoaffective disorder and early psychosis so this would be a great help in alleviating my homicidal thoughts

OP spell out the argument for me here. Do you have research that shows that if you withhold zinc from a mice or rat diet they don't show signs of aging?

>>11024519
There would likely be things like scars etc. that would accumulate, but parabiosis experiments show that most of the aging damage is fully reversible.


>>11024536
It seems zinc may contribute: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19623531 but if you are schizoaffective you are most likely deficient in magnesium. This doesn't show in blood plasma, but in erythrocytes (red blood cells) it does. Succesful treatment restores the magnesium levels. Make sure you get enough magnesium and avoid calcium rich foods. (dairy etc.)

Too much of other elements, like vanadium or berrilium also could potentially cause mental problems. (manic phases)

Zinc free diet would have to be specially created, as most places have enough zinc in soil to enter the food chain. Those that didn't were locatend in the 20th century and fertilized with zinc. (These places were, in fact, located by people who looked too young for their age)

>>11024557
No, but I have:

A widely used technique in protein research, where the zinc is replaced with cobalt. The protein still works, (often slightly different, but that difference may matter) but is easier to investigate, if I understand it correctly because cobalt is magnetic and zinc is not.

Widespread cultural myths (even early written recrods) of people not aging before a certain date. It isn't only in the Bible, but in sumerian records, Greek myths, Indian epics, and so on. In a few mountain places like the caucasus or hunza it was held to modern days, people didn't understand why they would just die and there it was common to find people who were way over 100 and alive. This is now generally assumed to be myths. It was very common for previously uncontacted, perfectly healthy people to get very suddenly very ill.

Cobalt being widely used as supplement by athletes to improve performance.

Research on simpler organisms that they can grow with cobalt instead.

>>11025430
No, get the fuck out of here. You need to get fucking rid of this information right the fuck now, i don't want horror movie level shit becoming a reality. I swear to fucking god there is a singular creature made up of trillions of human like fucked up monsters all coalesced into a single mega alien monster. No fucking shit that's what human beings would do, the need to survive is that great holy fuck is this what we're heading for? Is this how we're going to eventually integrate mechanical elements into long term multi-siamese connected humans? What the fuck man holy shit

>>11025445
NO. DESTROY IT. MAKE IT STOP. IT'S ALREADY OUT THERE EATING UP ENTIRE PLANETS JUST TO CONTINUE ROAMING THE UNIVERSE AND SURVIVING. THIS IS FUCKED UP SHIT OP MAKE IT STOP RIGHT NOW I WOULD RATHER FUCKING DIE THAN BE SUCKED INTO IT AND BECOME IT NO NO NO NO NO A LITTLE PART OF ME WILL BE TRAPPED IN THE COLLECTIVE NO NO NO KILL ME NOW

>>11025449
but anon, that's what a human being is. you are already a collective of living organisms. you're just familiar with your human body. You will learn to enjoy this.