/sci/ - Science & Math

Let natural selection decide then. I'll enjoy my steak, you enjoy your bean curd.

Imagine all the things plants naturally produce that humans do not.

https://reducing-suffering.org/how-much-direct-suffering-is-caused-by-various-animal-foods/

>>10997233
>RED meat is bad for you
>IMAGINE EATING ###MEAT###

>>10997233
>favorite, publicly-subsidized
Bull crap. You think onions bean farming is profitable?

>>10997275
What nonsense is this?

>>10997233
Humans do not produce it, yes. But there has been no actual proof that the human body actually treats it as pathogenic matter. Non-production does not automatically mean rejection.

>>10997233
Oxalates and phytic acid?

>>10997233
>imagine falling for this bait

>>10997233
>Cruelty inducing
Who's lives are more valuable? The thousands of small mammals and bugs killed on farms to protect plants, as well as the fertility of the land that is likely to disappear quickly by growing plants and only plants? Or the lives of the cows killed for consumption by humans?

>Climate destroying
Yes. It is much more eco friendly to fly in fruits and vegetables from 4 different countries so that you can enjoy meatless chicken nuggets

>Atherosclerosis
Carbohydrates should be consumed in moderation, just like everything else

Veganism is unsustainable.

incredibly based post, let me hug you OP

t. whole food plant based vegan for 3 years and counting.

vegan whole plant based diet is the future of humanity.

>>10997379
your arguments are the same bullshit spouted by retards who are addicted to unhealthy foods.

Imagine eating Grade 1 carcinogen lmao. Other known grade 1 carcinogens are tobacco and plutonium.

Diet rich in animal protein is associated with a greater risk of early death
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190410095951.htm

A diet rich in animal protein and meat in particular is not good for the health, a new study finds, providing further backing for earlier research evidence. Men who favored animal protein over plant-based protein in their diet had a greater risk of death in a 20-year follow-up than men whose diet was more balanced in terms of their sources of protein.

>>10997379
eating meat requires 10 times more crop production than being vegan dumb dumb

all meat boosts cancer because it contains growth hormones. There's a 2 week long effect roughly. Eating less doesn't do shit. You got to either eat none or can forget about it.

Now the real problem: No normal person can actually go full herbivore.It's an impractical dream like commies thinking they can get their utopia. Get real folks. Also nobody gives a fuck about suffering. The predominant market driver is convenience.

>>10997233

There are Bacon eaters, then there are everyone else.

I am a Bacon eater.

I'll go vegetables only at some point senpai it's just pretty difficult and takes planning

>>10997839
>No normal person can actually go full herbivore
Why not? Many top athletes are vegans. Lewis Hamilton, Serena Williams, Nick Diaz, Hector Bellerin, etc. The gist is that you have to take supplements, but ALL athletes take supplements, whether they eat meat or not. A lot of vegan food like almond milk and tofu come pre-fortified with Vitamin D and B12 because they know their target demographics.

If you're talking about convenience then I agree with you. It is a pain in the ass to be full vegan. Cake contains eggs. Guinness contain fish. But it is not necessary to be pure radical extremist vegan, just eat whole plant based food, eat supplements and in special occasions eat whatever.

>>10997839
I'll eat more then, thanks for teaching me that I should have more.

>>10997863
There are people that die of heart disease, then there is a very small % of the population that doesn't eat atherosclerosis causing diets.

I am heart attack proof.

>>10997893
good solid advice

t. 3 years whole food plant based vegan athlete, B.S in math

it is the easiest it has ever been in history to thrive on a vegan diet. The consequences that could have on the environment are enormous. It simply costs less energy to sustain the human population on plants. Animal agriculture is terrible inefficient.

The moral issue is powerful in itself, unless you're an edgy unsympathetic fuckhead.

>>10997233
Why do so many vegans use vape pens? vapes will fuck your shit up quicker than eating lean chicken breast and low fat yogurt.

>>10997275
why do chicken and egg have different sentience multipliers?

>>10997275
>muh catfish
You can suck all the dicks.

Carnivore here. Beef, salt, and water cured my depression and brain fog when nothing else did. I tried vegan, AKA nutritional starvation, and every other diet.

I've debated tons tons of you idiots. I'm sick of it and I won't do it, it's just too time consuming to shoot down the same points over and over again. Have fun poisoning yourselves with anti-nutrients (Lectins, Tannins, Amines, Trypsin inhibitors, several different FODMAPS, Salicylates, Sulphites, Benzoates, Lignins, Triterpenes, Glycosides, several different Alkaloids, several different Saponins and Phytic acid, ect.)

>>10998002
you're retarded, enjoy your atherosclerosis.

>>10998002
Isn't it true that veggies still "exploit" animals? Like you got your blood meal and your chicken shot and clam shell and fish gut fertilizer. Probably a bunch of other stuff idk about. Its the cirrrrcle of liiife!!

>>10997233
If Meat Eaters Acted Like Vegans - Ultra Spiritual Life episode 35
https://youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8

>>10997474
Vegans? No, they love to remind you how they're good people for eating.

>>10998034
Funny, because carnivores NEVER develop atherosclerosis...until you feed them grain. Really actives the almonds. This argument has been dismantled over, and over, and over again. Vegas are bad records.

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/we-are-not-herbivores.html#.XYl9JShKjb0

>>10998083
Even if you use none of those, it's STILL terrible for the environment. On the other hand, look into regenerative agriculture, grazing animals resurrect dead desert into green again.

>>10998139
>regenerative agriculture
But who's paying for that? And how can I profit. That's what I thought.
Just playing good cop, bad cop. No fighting.

>>10998002
Phytochemical are what actually fights cancer/prevents aging though. For instance, vitamin C supplements alone actually increased oxidative stress after exercise, the complete opposite effect as consuming a vitamin C rich fruit.
>https://www.aicr.org/reduce-your-cancer-risk/diet/elements_phytochemicals.html
The very fact that plants contain a harsh cocktail of phytochemicals is what helps your body, they're hypothesized to improve cellular functioning by "stressing" your body, much in the same way tearing your muscles through exercise strengthens them after recovery.

>>10998129
lmao at your source m8. It's an anti onions pseudo health conspiracy website with no real credentials
Show us a peer reviewed journal, this is /sci/ not /pol/ or /fit/

>>10997379
>veganism is unsustainable
How?
You don't seriously think importing fruit and vegetables has the same impact that meat production has?

>>10997893
My current girlfriend is a vegan of 16 years. No supplements at all and she's healthy af. I'm convinced the supplement requirement is a myth, you just have to make sure you have a diverse diet.

>>10998158
But he cited his sources?

2. McGuire JT, et al. Plasma alpha-tocopherol, retinol, cholesterol, and mineral concentrations in captive gorillas. J Med Primatol 1989; 18:155-161;
3. Schmidt DA, et al. Cholesterol values in free-ranging gorillas (Gorilla gorilla gorilla and Gorilla beringei) and Bornean orangutans (Pongo pygmaeus). J Zoo Wildl Med. 2006 Sep ;37 (3):292-300

Take gorillas (herbivores), and disrupt their diet by feeding them grain and no meat. All of a sudden they get atherosclerosis. There are similar phenomena noted in cats.

>>10998175
You have to supplement B12 and vitamin K2 ("muh fermented onions beans!" it's not bioavailable like K2 in meat) just to survive. How is that sustainable? You can survive indefinitely on meat. Many don't even eat organ meats and are just fine.

>>10997233
you're a retard. go move some where with other retards if you don't want to get proper brain nutrients.

>>10998183
>diverse diet with out supplements
does she do it because she hates the environment or do you happen to live in a magical fairy land where she can just survive on her diverse selection of fruits and vegetables without importing from all over the world

>>10998187
(I am this poster replying to myself)

Vegans--we can do this all day (which is why I try not to engage but always fall into it anyway). You can almost argue anything with all the shoddy epidemiological studies out there. Just try different diets for 2 months each and settle on the one where you feel the best. For me it was keto and then carnivore.

>>10998187
Last time I checked gorillas aint humans lmao.

>You can survive indefinitely on meat. Many don't even eat organ meats and are just fine.
You cannot survive indefinitely on any diet, otherwise we already have immortal humans. You can't survive indefinitely on meat. See Canadian meth addict refuses to eat brocolli and went to rehab Jordan Peterson. There are tons of literature like >>10997781 showing consuming animal protein increases risk of heart disease and cancer.

The world is not black and white. It's not carnivore vs. vegan. Vegan is better and more correct, you can easily buy supplements for 30 cents a pop, or many vegan foods are pre-fortified with supplements. Then you can occasionally eat meat and live longer, healthier live.

This has been clearly proven in society like Okinawa japan (where they have unique sweet potato based diet, with very little amount of fish) compared to traditional Japanese diet and part of Italy like Accriaoli where they also predominantly eat plant based diet. For comparison society that is predominantly meat based like African tribes or Eskimos have much shorter lifespan. Thus the proof that you cannot survive indefinitely on meat.

>>10998221
What the fuck man. Not even him, but this is an absolute shitpost.
>bruh humans aren't gorillas XD your study doesnt matter at all lol
>dude nobody can live forever that doesn't even matter *proceeds to compare the lifespans of different diets*
>Veganism is good for you, these developed agricultural societies had longer lifespans than people living in hell on earth and the frozen wastes of the arctic
Just kill yourself dude, what a terrible fucking post.

>>10998198
I'm not a vegan. I'm advocating for predominantly plant based diet + very occasional meat/supplements as necessary. You're bringing out bad study on gorillas and extending it to humans. Why not study bonobos and chimps? Even the authors of the studies you cited did not make a leap of faith and make any comments on humans. It is simply a study on Journal of Medical Primatology on bonobos.

>Just try different diets for 2 months each and settle on the one where you feel the best. For me it was keto and then carnivore.
You do you. There are mountain of empirical study showing that eating animal protein increase aging, risk of cancer, and heart disease. All these negatives are long term negatives. You might lose a lot of weight and get short term gain, but in the long term societies with predominantly plant based diet and very occasional meat/dairy live the longest. Feel free to roll the dice and hope you'll be a statistical anomalies among these mountain of peer reviewed studies.

>>10998238
> It is simply a study on Journal of Medical Primatology on bonobos.
I meant gorillas

>>10998187
https://vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/questions/1540/how-common-is-it-for-the-livestock-industry-to-supplement-b12
B12 is produced by microbacteria living in soil, which is something mass-produced animals won't ever see in their lifetimes. They have to be supplemented as well. Where is the difference?

>>10998193
Fantastic argument. Not condescending at all. Your punctuation and grammar are on par with your mental abilities.

I think it’s pretty cool that the human body and medicine is one of the last frontiers of science and we haven’t even got this nutrition thing hammered out very well.

Pretty sure were going to have to put computers inside of everyone in order to collect enough data to figure it all out.

>>10998236
>>bruh humans aren't gorillas XD your study doesnt matter at all lol
If I say giant tortoise eat kelp and live until 100 years would it be a fair comparison? The authors themselves did not make any extrapolation on humans. It is the meme sites that does.

>Veganism is good for you, these developed agricultural societies had longer lifespans than people living in hell on earth and the frozen wastes of the arctic
That's all the data we have. There are many agricultural based society with varying amount of animal protein consumption. Why don't people in mainland Japan live longer than people in Okinawa? Maybe because Okinawans have more whole foods plant diet in sweet potatoes rather than processed white rice? Maybe because Okinawans eat way less fish and porks because they're poor compared to mainland Japanese?

Fact is that in pockets of human population who live the longest, they consistently have predominantly plant based, whole foods diet with very minimal meat. On the opposite spectrum we have population who consistently eat animal proteins and they don't do so good. Show me 1 pocket of population who live longer than people in Okinawa or Accriaoli while eating more meat.

Facts doesn't care about your feelings

>>10998221
Inuit and Africans having shorter life spans probably has other reasons to be fair.

>>10998236
See pic.

>>10997893
I tried eating only fruits and veggies for a month and started feeling really lethargic and like I wanted spaghetti really badly.

>>10998256
>If I say giant tortoise eat kelp and live until 100 years would it be a fair comparison?
There are way more similarities between humans and gorillas than humans and tortoises
>That's all the data we have. There are many agricultural based society with varying amount of animal protein consumption. Why don't people in mainland Japan live longer than people in Okinawa? Maybe because Okinawans have more whole foods plant diet in sweet potatoes rather than processed white rice? Maybe because Okinawans eat way less fish and porks because they're poor compared to mainland Japanese?
It's the stupidest shit you could possibly say. You even acknowledge that they are poorer on average, but this could not POSSIBLY impact life expectancy. America, land of the free home of the big mac has a life expectancy a decade longer than India, the most vegan nation in the world. That shit is a pointless comparison
>facts don't compare about your feelings XD

>>10998254
>I think it’s pretty cool that the human body and medicine is one of the last frontiers of science and we haven’t even got this nutrition thing hammered out very well.
The jury is in on whole foods, predominantly plant based diet to be the healthiest in term of longetivity.
Keto and carnivore is a relatively new fad, so there's no long term study on them. Keto can clearly achieve fast weight loss, which is beneficial if you're overweight like most westerners especially americans are. But nobody can definitively say the long term effect of keto. The currently available science says it is not so good, as consuming animal protein increases aging, risk of heart diseases and cancer.

>>10998256
The number one correlation with longevity is low body mass. Show me one pocket of population that had a plant based diet and higher than average body mass and still maintained a correlation with longevity. Plant based diets make you live longer because you aren’t as fat or muscular not because they are intrinsically healthier.

>>10998259
>I tried eating only fruits and veggies for a month and started feeling really lethargic and like I wanted spaghetti really badly.
Raw vegans are idiots and just as much of a cult as ketofags or carnivore fags.

Of course you feel bad because you don't get enough protein and had too much fibers. Eat plant grains for carbs, plant protein like tempeh, tofu, chickpeas for protein, eat greens and fruits for fiber and sugar. Have a diverse diet. Every now and then eat some chicken or sushi, and get your vitamin supplements.

>>10998271
>The number one correlation with longevity is low body mass
So people in Acciaroli Italy have the same body mass as Japanese? Italians in general are taller than european. This alone debunk your theory on body mass.

>>10998266
>You even acknowledge that they are poorer on average, but this could not POSSIBLY impact life expectancy
It impact life expectancy the other way. The poorer okinawans live longer than mainland Japanese.

>>10998254
Because humans are insane. Nature says, "Don't eat this fish," and we spend over a decade learning how to cut that fish so some rich asshole can eat it. We manifest idealized cube versions of food in factories and test them in laboratories for their nutritional value to us. Plants develop agents to poison us against eating them and we decide that pain is a flavor and being poisoned is fun. We eat fucking anything. We acidify and denature and ionize and boil and emulsify and ignite and salt and cure shit so we can eat the inedible. The sheer amount of shit we can eat on every continent is incredible. We overthink and quantify and abstract our food in a way no other species does, and then we have arguments about it. We're not bound to any habitat because of limitations in what we can eat. We have carnivorous people and keto people and vegans and pescetarians and junk food eaters and health nuts and food junkies and everything in between and all of them keep us alive for decades and decades because humans are fucking crazy. Throw it in the tank and we burn it. We'll send cookie dough to outer space in a tube and just eat that if we have to. We are the ultimate omnivores.

>>10998282
Explain murica vs india, this DEBUNKS your theory. it DESTROYS and MOLESTS and FUCKS your theory IN THE ASSHOLE TILL IT SHITS. You just got RUINED in a DEBATE LIBTARD

>>10997262
humans killed natural selection that is no longer an option

>>10998279
I don’t know, do they?

Is their body mass lower than the surrounding population?

It’s not my theory btw, many articles written about how being skinny makes you live longer.

>>10998292
>humans killed natural selection

>>10998287
Lmao are you triggered bruv?
>Explain murica vs india
America has better health care and standard of living that compensates for worse diet.

Okinawans are traditionally poorer than mainland Japanese, so they have lower standard of living, but not as much disparity compared to 1st world american vs. 3rd world indians. They live longer because they have better diet. This proves the true benefit of plant based diet.

>>10998294
>many articles written about how being skinny makes you live longer.
To a certain extent. If you're totally underweight skeletor you'll also die faster.

>>10998279
Oh lol I just looked up that Italian place. Your little inbred town where everyone is packing the same genes for long life is the pinnacle of cherry picking.

And hey, those guys are all skinny as fuck btw so I still challenge you to show me a group long lived vegetarians who are above average in size. Pro tip: you can’t.

>>10998299
>other factors can contribute to lifespan than diet
No way. Fuck off. You got DESTROYED. There is no, could be no, possible explanation other than diet.

>>10998285

I would say more like scavengers. No wonder we have so much in common with dogs. Dog will go crazy over finest cooked steak, or slice of salmon, but also eat flattened encrusted remains of three week old dead duck from road. We eat cheese crawling with maggots and call it a delicacy. Look up "Casu marzu" if you dont believe me.

>>10998307
>La la la I'm not listening I'm not listening

>>10998312
I can tell.

>>10998306
>I still challenge you to show me a group long lived vegetarians who are above average in size
>skinny
Are you talking about height (which is genetic) or BMI (which you had more choice in). To be an overweight vegetarian is really difficult, unless you're a slob who eat pasta, processed grains, and oreos all day. In that case then yes unhealthy vegetarian is just as bad.

Let me put it the other way, Okinawans and people in Accrioli are not the shortest people around. There are literal pygmy people in Africa, and Southeast asians are generally considered the shortest people around. Despite being skinny, short, and have low BMI, these people don't enjoy the longetivity that Okinawans and Accrioli people do.

Another way to look at it is that Okinawan vs. mainland Japanese people. They both are relatively the same height, have similar standard of living (if anything Okinawans are poorer). The only distinction is that mainland japanese people eat a lot of rice and fish, while Okinawans eat less fish, less rice, and more sweet potatoes.

>>10998310
Domesticated dogs are actually pretty remarkable omnivores just as a result of their proximity to us. I mean, same as us, there's obviously shitty diets and good ones and everything in-between for them too, but just being around human food for this long while also being dogs has had some interesting results.

>>10998324
I’m talking total body mass. Tall people don’t typically live long either.

>There are literal pygmy people in Africa, and Southeast asians are generally considered the shortest people around. Despite being skinny, short, and have low BMI, these people don't enjoy the longetivity that Okinawans and Accrioli people do.

I knew you were gonna say some shit about some micro tribe of humans in some 3rd world shit hole. Yeah no fucking shit some dirt Pygmys living in the jungle aren’t going to live as long as populations from two of the most highly developed civilizations in the world with top tier health care. Fucking stellar example.

The discrepancy between Okinawans and mainland Japanese is almost wholly attributable to diabetes and is endemic to one type of food, the white rice they eat and only because they eat so fucking much of it.

>>10998355
> wholly attributable to diabetes and is endemic to one type of food, the white rice they eat and only because they eat so fucking much of it.
How do you know? Any source? Otherwise that's just literally your opinion, man.

See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet
The traditional diet also includes a tiny amount of fish (less than half a serving per day) and more in the way of onions and other legumes (6% of total caloric intake). Pork is highly valued, yet eaten very rarely. Every part of the pig is eaten, including internal organs.
Maybe it's the half serving of fish, so they dont get mercury poisoning and less meat. Unlike you, I have a peer reviewed study to back me up.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2009.10718117
>Many of the characteristics of the diet in Okinawa are shared with other healthy dietary patterns, such as the traditional Mediterranean diet or the modern DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) diet. Features such as the low levels of saturated fat, high antioxidant intake, and low glycemic load in these diets are likely contributing to a decreased risk for cardiovascular disease, some cancers, and other chronic diseases through multiple mechanisms, including reduced oxidative stress. A comparison of the nutrient profiles of the three dietary patterns shows that the traditional Okinawan diet is the lowest in fat intake, particularly in terms of saturated fat, and highest in carbohydrate intake, in keeping with the very high intake of antioxidant-rich yet calorie-poor orange-yellow root vegetables, such as sweet potatoes, and green leafy vegetables.

Checkmate mang

>>10998355
> wholly attributable to diabetes and is endemic to one type of food, the white rice they eat and only because they eat so fucking much of it.
How do you know? Any source? Otherwise that's just literally your opinion, man.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet
>The traditional diet also includes a tiny amount of fish (less than half a serving per day) and more in the way of onions and other legumes (6% of total caloric intake). Pork is highly valued, yet eaten very rarely. Every part of the pig is eaten, including internal organs.

Maybe it's the half serving of fish, so they dont get mercury poisoning and less meat. Unlike you, I have a peer reviewed study to back me up.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2009.10718117
>Many of the characteristics of the diet in Okinawa are shared with other healthy dietary patterns, such as the traditional Mediterranean diet or the modern DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) diet. Features such as the low levels of saturated fat, high antioxidant intake, and low glycemic load in these diets are likely contributing to a decreased risk for cardiovascular disease, some cancers, and other chronic diseases through multiple mechanisms, including reduced oxidative stress. A comparison of the nutrient profiles of the three dietary patterns shows that the traditional Okinawan diet is the lowest in fat intake, particularly in terms of saturated fat, and highest in carbohydrate intake, in keeping with the very high intake of antioxidant-rich yet calorie-poor orange-yellow root vegetables, such as sweet potatoes, and green leafy vegetables.

Checkmate mang

>>10998249
11/10 rebuttal, I love the part where you addressed the relevant material and didn't resort to ad hominem.

>>10997953
LDL might not cause heart disease in active adults. Cholesterols are building blocks, if you’re a runner or weight lifter or mountaineer you want to have tissue highly bioavailable hormonal building blocks

i like how natural sciences are getting more and more stuck on the inevitable fact that humans are in fact not animals and literally do not belong on this planet lmao.

>>10998524
wut

>>10998325
their food is mostly corn too. read the ingredients on dry food. its literally just meat flavored cereal.

>>10998533
OP's post is literally saying humans do not produce something that all other mammals do, except for a select few like the platypus.

Humans are literally as bizarre a creature on this planet as platypus are.

>>10997233
Eat human meat.

>>10998553
K

>>10997863
I don't eat pork but out of al possible pork stuff yo can eat Bacon is total ass.

>>10998272
there are veggies (avodcado's too) with protein lol

Vegetarianism and veganism is genuinely whitoid shit. I'm polynesian and we have huge diabetes rates on vegan/vegetarian diets. So do high elevation people like the Nepalese.
Not everyone has the same gut flora as whitoids.

>>10998324
>There are literal pygmy people in Africa

Those people live in the MARGINS of central African society which is itself the margin of Africa and Africa itself is the MARGIN of the world.

>>10998257
>Inuit and Africans having shorter life spans probably has other reasons to be fair.

former drugs, suicide and depression. The latter war and poverty. In places in Africa where poverty isn't as bad and western style diets and sedentary habits aren't yet established they are pretty healthy . Uganda is the most physically active nation in the world for now.

>>10998638
Because you use coconut oil/fat which is way worse then anything bad or potentially bad posted here.
For both groups they tend to eat themselves to type 2.

T. Not a whitey

>>10998488
>expecting anything else after resorting to insults
I bet you have zero friends.

>>10998638
If you had ever been to Polynesia you'd know almost all Polynesians are fat as shit.

>>10998724
Are you all there ? You heard the part where the polinisian siad that they arw polineasian? No discount because Im drunk enough to kill a puss like you. Not him btw incase you cant figure.
>>10998638
True as all get out. If you ask my.., what is that ahit called .."universal intelligence " you dudes always been fat and no disrespect. That is key. How to get fat in a meager world. Sure, it is easy in the twinky age but y'all pioneers f dat shit.

>>10998743
I'm accusing him of lying you sad waste of meat.

>>10998754
Can you explain? I don't remember what we are talking about. I shal start preparations for further argument.

just breed a cattle strain without it then its that simple? with crispr its a single base deletion deletion to remove this specific protein ???

>>10998754
Disregard. Im good now. Agreed. Bet this waste of meat can defeat you in physical combat tho. Anyhoodie. You win an easy battle. Congratulations.

>>10998758
Not worth it. Enjoy your evening.

>>10998759
I know right? What kind of shit stirring is this?

>>10998761
Don't make me cry Anon. You enjoy the rest of your whole life.

>>10998766
Cheers.

>>10998776
Alright. Just one more.

>cruelty-inducing
>climate-destroying
I don't care, this does not affect me. Go spread your FUD elsewhere.

>>10997893
Nobody contests that some people run diets with success. It's just hilariously unrealistic to expect the average person will keep a strict diet. And if they can't the idea of getting the whole population vegan falls apart.

>>10997233
Females naturally produce pussy, whereas I do not; and yet I consume said substance nightly and afternoonly on weekends. What is my prognosis, Nurse?

>>10997379
All your arguments can be directed back at (You) because you need a lot more crops to feed livestock.

>>10999001
Exposure to f*moids produces a penile inflammation in humans, and oftentimes a loss of the vital essence. Limit your exposure to f*moids, and never give them your essence.

>>10998002
Eat what works for you man. Everybody is trying to force the rest of the world to eat what they do. I found my own diet, I eat what makes me feel healthy. Screw the haters.
We're all different.

>>10999004
keep this guy away from nukes

>>10998254
Unfortunately modern medicine arrived just in time for capitalism to corrupt it. Doctors want you sick because they make more money that way.

>he sacrifices his enjoyment for some animals who are bred specifically for us to eat them
Life is limited. Why would I stop doing something I enjoy if the animals are eat are even protected by hundreds of laws, meaning their deaths are almost guaranteed to be painfree. Or are you dumb enough to think an animal dying from old age, or starving because of a broken leg, is a better death than a bolt to the head?

>>10999014
Doctors get enough work from actual sick people and hypochondriacs. They don't need to artificially make more of them, desu

>>10999025
>get enough work
That's not what it's about, though. It's about profits. What type of pacient does the doctor prefer? The person who comes in for a routine check? Or the person who comes in for a routine check and needs pills? We both know the answer.

>>10999010
Not really. Most people just want to stop animal abuse and mass-production of disgusting, unhealthy meat. This only works by market regulation, so either politics or making everybody stop consuming meat from mass-production facilities.

>>10999033
>mass production facilities
You mean Jewish slaughterhouses. https://youtube.com/watch?v=KezHKbUzy0A

>Dr. Dre from Compton University just stated in his study from 14.September 2019 that not eating meat leads to micropenis syndrom, getting autism and sniffing male anuses. He and his team of researchers recommend to eat atleast 25pounds of redmeat a day.
>"OP is a faggot" he added at the end of the interview.

you see this OP? i can claim bullshit too without posting source.

>>10999038
Yes, also Jewish and Muslim mass-slaughtering facilities.

>>10999030
Doctors don't sell pills.

>>10997233

t. Soiboi

>>10997233
>no source
>no peer review
>no reproductibility
>no dosis/results effect
Next you'll post that electric fields produce leukiemia and you'll all believe that bullshit no questions asked. Enjoy your small brain anon.

>>10998221
>You can't survive indefinitely on meat. See Canadian meth addict refuses to eat brocolli and went to rehab Jordan Peterson.

based

>>10998638
implying white gut flora for the past few decades is a "good starting point" for veganism

everyone's gut flora is fucked from eating like Americans bro. Nothing a whole food plant based diet and a little patience can't fix...


All I see here are the typical excuses. Plant based diets are the future of humanity.

>>10998927
>hurr durr these actions which literally affect my future have no effect on me

>>10999067

>t. clogged arteries and ED by age 45

>>10999075

Position of the American Dietetic Association on vegan diets:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19......
Vegan and vegetarian health outcomes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19......
Vegan Diet favorable to healthy omnivorous diets:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/99......
Are humans Herbivores?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic......
Milk, bone fractures and mortality:
http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g6015
Vitamin K:
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/v......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/81......
Intelligence and plant based diets:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic......
Fracture risk in vegetarians:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17......
Omega 3's, fish, ALA and DHA conversion:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicat......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/96......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22......
Nutrient profiles of vegetarian diets:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti......
Hormones, fat and cholesterol:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/35......
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23......
Early human diet and brain development:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec......

>>10998507

lol you sound like shawn baker (carnivore dieter)

>no bro, my 90 year woman T levels just mean i need less T because its more bioavailable!

>>10998221

>cannot survive indefinitely on meat

You can't survive indefinitely on any diet you fucking retard, because you would die one day no matter what you eat.

Also giving a shit about diet is for boomers. You are clearly aware that nuerolink will allow me to upload my memories into a cyborg XNA modified hybrid synthetic/organic body, you are clearly in poor mental health and you know for a fact that when the singularity comes you will be one of luddite plebs while I and my carniborg brethren will be giving you neon enemas from our glow-in-the-rectum cocks.

You should start dilating now, before we dilate for you, softskin.

>>10998292

>>10999105
"cholesterol is a helper molecule bro!"

"meat heals"

s m h

I stick with science. Science says there was no selection pressure for moderate to high saturated fat/cholesterol intake. We now easily possess the capabilities to consume the most nutrient dense, fiber rich diet possible. It literally is what our bodies thrive on. Being able to "survive" on meat is merely an adaption that allowed us to expand as a species into colder climates year round.

Our brains run on glucose. Ketones produce less ATP than the equivalent amount of glucose.

All the benefits of keto and carnivore diets come from the mechanisms of fasting. Also that one typically is not eating processed shit as well. ALL refined oils are terrible for you btw. It is the fat equivalent of refined sugar. 100% fat, does not exist in nature.


If you haven't been convinced yet you haven't read studies and seen coronary angiograms by Esselstyn.

t. vegan whole foods plant based (>3 years) athlete, b.s in math

>>10999106
imagine being this much of a dipshit

>>10998627
>Bacon is total ass.

YES! Pig butt is awesome!

>>10999084
I've had a stable back yard with tomatoes in it for 4 years now. No climate change for me. Again, spread your FUD elsewhere.

>>10998175
Consider how much % of plant matter can we actually consume.
Consider how much % of plant matter can a cow, a pig or a sheep consume
Finally consider how much % of those animals we can consume
Unless we get mandatory cellulase injections or pills , which wouldn't be a viable strategy on the long run, we get stucked with just eating cereals,fruits and in some species other parts like the leaves or the tubercules. Meanwhile feeding ,for example, hay to livestock guarantees that out of an unedible plant part we can grow a source of food that can be eaten almost entirely.

>>10999106
When I'm a robot will I still be able to smoke, get drunk and fuck whores?

>>10998428
>>10998355
BTFO

>>10999067
>Canadian meth addict refuses to eat brocolli and went to rehab

From the Harvard study where this autistic moron says "your alll gonna die omg omg"!!!!!!

Well, it also says that you should eat white meat, eggs, fish, and dairy. Is this part of the Harvard study wrong?

>>10997275
And humans aren't in a wageslave cage suffering every day? These lunatics need to check their priorities

>>10997233
Why shouldnt humans eat meat?

https://dominionmovement.com/watch

this kills the vegan argument

>>10999179
Why would you cultivate inedible plants? Why not just plant corn/onions and instead of feeding this to cows, eat it ourselves? Or even better: Eat the edible parts and feed the inedible parts to livestock.

>>10997233
Its not just meat, but also with cheese/milk as well. Cheese/milk have very low amounts but still its there. Inflamations last for few hours after eating the meat/dairy foods and if you skip meat/dairy in the next meal, you'll get few hours of inflammation free hours. But meat is good for nutrients/proteins, so if you can help it, reduce the intake in 2-3 times a week and it will help reduce the risk of chronic inflammation/cancer growth.

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4299224/
>A red meat-derived glycan promotes inflammation and cancer progression

>>10998292
>"it's not natural selection if i'm not winning"

>>10999415
>Why would you cultivate inedible plants?
Never said that
>Why not just plant corn/onions and instead of feeding this to cows, eat it ourselves?
>Or even better: Eat the edible parts and feed the inedible parts to livestock.
Have you read my post at all?

>>10999179
>hay to livestock guarantees that out of an unedible plant
Why plant unedible plant to begin with? Farmland is farmland. You have a patch of land, in which you clear all the trees and shrubs for cows to graze. That's already a negative. See deforestation in South America which was predominantly driven by land clearing for pastures. Planting edible plants also clear lands, but then after the initial damage you plant a foot that can be eaten directly.

Saying that there's a difference in land use between edible and non edible plant is false dichotomy. You choose what you want to do with the land, growing plant based food is more efficient period.

>>10999547
>you plant a foo
*food

>>10997307
Chronic Inflammation. It should be noted that eating Red Meat thrice a week is not dangerous

>>10997233
excellent. i think i'll have a steak to celebrate the resolution of a problem i wasn't aware of until this very thread. thank you for enlightening me, us, OP.

>>10999547
>ou have a patch of land, in which you clear all the trees and shrubs for cows to graze. That's already a negative. See deforestation in South America which was predominantly driven by land clearing for pastures.
You're putting one of the worse examples ever in terms of livestock, or land use in general.
Also, if you want to get fucking fires started in temperate ecosystems because there is not a great amount of herbivores (domestic or wild) to act as cleaners go ahead. They are not the only reason but doesn't help it.
>Planting edible plants also clear lands, but then after the initial damage you plant a foot that can be eaten directly.
Unless the soil is so done with it that new plants cannot grow in there in a medium/long term
>Why plant unedible plant to begin with?
Again, I never said that. There is no magical way to turn the bark of an apple tree into edible material or to be able to eat the stems of wheat or maize. A huge % of plant matter is unedible and it actually is a bigger % than with animals.
Not to mention that the C:N ratio of an only vegetable diet is too high, among other things

>>10999571
Depends on what you mean by "dangerous." Eating meat/dairy causes inflammations that lasts few hours. So if you eat meat/dairy at every meal, then you're suffering from chronic inflammation.

Eating red meat/dairy 3 times a week means you're only inflamed for few hours of the day each time you eat redmeat. Still much better than chronic inflammation but I don't know if I'd call it "not dangerous" that's a wrong terminology. I'd say "less risk" of developing heart disease/cancer.

>>10997470
if im about to die of protein/calcium deficiency, does that mean that if i become vegan it will instantly be recovered?

all i'm hearing is "eat human flesh"

>>10999602
>calcium
1 cup of Edamame, premature onions bean, gives 28% of daily calcium requirement. That's 14x more calcium than lean red meat per same serving size.

Lean red meat gives 2x more protein than the same Edamame per same serving size though.

>>10999587
>A huge % of plant matter is unedible
Yeah turn them into fertilizer for next season, just like all humanities have done throughout the year. Also your example of tree bark is misleading. Once you harvest the apple, tree bark don't become useless. You just grow more apples from the same tree next season lol.

>>10999690
>Turn lignine into fertilizer
Good fucking luck with that m8. Also most of the fertilizer (and the best ones) comes from animal waste. Btw, did you know one of the most limiting nutrients for plant growth is nitrogen/nitrates? Guess what kind of organic matter doesn't have a lot of nitrogen or nitrates.
>You just grow more apples from the same tree next season lol.
And still it would get several seasons to collect enough of them so that the net sum of apples provided is nearly equal its weight. Not even going to say how long does it have to take for a tree to actually make apples, because it does take a fuckton of time.

>>10999786
the vegan and anti-meat memes are really getting tiresome. vegans are weak as shit and their bodies literally start to rot after a few months.

>>10999094
Nice single source and all page-not-found.

>>10999978
>vegans are we-

>>10999978
>vegans are weak

speak for yourself bud

t. vegan athlete with 6 pack, how many pullups can you do in one sitting? Because I bet you I can do more than you.

>>10997233
Vegans have extremely low testosterone levels when compared to meat eaters, along with a number of chronic vitamin deficiencies which must be artificially supplemented. Even just considering those two factors, it is clear that humans were not meant to be herbivorous or "vegan"

Vegans are ignorant of biology and have weak sperm. Dont be a vegan unless you have some sort of strange, innate desire to be a weak, low-IQ nu-male.

>>11000242
Everyone had a 6 pack, moron. It's just hidden beneath subcutaneous fat on individuals with a healthy body weight. And no, I'm not promoting fat acceptance. The human body at metabolic equilibrium maintains a percentage of subcutaneous fat to act as fuel reserves. Cutting this away with fad diets or self starvation (i.e. veganism) is akin to driving a car that constantly only has a couple of liters of fuel in its tank.

>>11000242
>t. can do pullups but can't bench the bar he's so small

>>11000288
Every starving person picture I've ever seen looked like they didn't have a six pack so much as a thin covering of skin over a skeletal body.

>>11000281
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10883675
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4231431/
Meat eaters BTFO

Vegans confirmed to have higher testosterone, lower estrogen than meat eaters.

>>11000308
>didn't even read his own sources
One of those is on hormonal levels in premenopausal women and the other shows that the levels are barely higher which is offset by a lack of binding hormones in the vegans which makes the slight elevation completely useless

You're a dumbass.

>>11000288
>eVeRyOnE hAs A 6 pAcK bEnEaTh FaT
Why doesn't anyone ever remember skinny people exist?

>>11000323
>IT DOESN'T COUNT
LEL. Go COPE more, you cuck.

>>11000340
>so stupid he didn't even read the abstract

>Vegans had higher testosterone levels than vegetarians and meat-eaters, but this was offset by higher sex hormone binding globulin

Sad, weak little plantman. Go eat a snack before you pass out from all the stress of typing.

>>10999978
My parents are way healthier then most people and the do orthodox fasts for long periods.

>>10999747
Lot of legumes actually put nitrogen into the soil which is a common farming technique in many areas if the world. There's a reason George Washington Carver advocated for cotton growers to switch to peanuts.

>>11000367
Cotton was leeching the soil of nitrogen and the cotton weevil was a threat so switching to peanuts was an alternative to restoring the soil and providing an income as well.

Trees as we provide shelter in sunny places and bio matter for the earth and firewood.

>>10999616
Worked back then. Now you just inherit all their fucked health conditions.

Vegans are so fucking dumb, you're just hurting your own cause in the end.

Everyone going vegan is not achievable, get over it, its not gonna happen. But everyone reducing their meat consumption to a sustainable level is 100% possible, unless you keep presenting this retarded false dichotomy of your only diet choices being macdonalds burgers or nothing but salad and söy.

What we need to be encouraging is more home cooking and a well balanced diet, not a complete change in lifestyle.

>>11000352
funny, there's no actual arguments in your responses just infantile name-calling because you can't accept that there are vegan men most likely much stronger and fitter than you.

>>11000618

>slave abolitionists are so fucking dumb. >Everyone getting rid of slaves is not achievable, get over it.

>>11000636
do you have an argument or just fallacies?

>>11000640
I like your post, I really do. I'm vegan but agree the best thing people can do for their health is avoid processed foods and cook for themselves. I have no issue telling clients to buy meat/eggs from a local farm if that's what they want. I just inform them of why they SHOULDN'T buy any animal products from a supermarket.

I'm simply making the point that veganism as an ideal future for humanity is literally that. It's an optimistic ideal. Who's to say it's impossible? You're just being close-minded. Social norms can change. Especially when new information comes to light (consider the image you give off smoking cigs in the 60s vs now)

I agree more home cooking from whole food sources (not the supermarket you brainlets) needs to be encouraged.

>a well balanced diet
for most people (with no real understanding of nutrition) a well balanced diet is a meme. A little piece of something green next to your steak is not well balanced.

We need comprehensive restructuring of our education system to teach basic nutrition to children. The thing is that so much money from agribusiness, meat and dairy has influenced government policies, etc I really do not see that happening effectively unfortunately. There's simply too much money in the wrong hands.

>>10997233
>Imagine eating meat
>meat
>Neu5Gc isn't in chicken meat
>Neu5Gc exists only in trace amounts in fish

Sounds like more of a red meat problem than meat-in-general problem. And everyone already knows that it's bad to eat lots of red meat anyway.

>>11000668
>A little piece of something green next to your steak is not well balanced.
did i say it was

>>11000340
>focusing on vegans being high-t
>not realizing obvious conclusion of burning meat eaters as fuel because they contain more energy, thus eliminating animal agriculture and reducing fossil fuel use

>>11000715
>low testosterone response

Are suffering from inferiority complexes?

>>10999179
My argument was that supporting a cow with food her whole life needs a lot more imported fruit and vegetables (they are fed fortified onions mostly, for B12 and excess protein) than just feeding it to humans directly.

>>11000841
Why does autocorrect make "onions" out of "onions"?

>>11000860
its some shitty filter on this board for S 0 y

t. eats edamame beans (onions) and other onions products as a vegan and could fuck your dick in half with mine.

>>10997233
>eat dairy
>get sick
...
>eat grain products
>get sick
...
>eat poultry
>fine all the time

After I cut all dairy and grain products out of my diet, I've never felt better. My anecdotal evidence trumps anything you could post.

>>11000906
eat stuff like Teff or buckwheat.
poultry is good to be honest. IT was more limited in the past but now it's cheap and many many many amazing cuts are cheaper because people all want chicken breast so the rest get neglected.

>>11000941
I can't eat either of those either. I also raise my own poultry. Dark meat has flavor though, people are missing out.

>>11000882
Ohh I see, never noticed. Thanks.

>>11000954
Poultry has flavor too, if you eat the good stuff and not the western water-infused bloated hen.

>>10997233
>may be possibly pre-treated to remove the compound and essentially detoxify it. All that might be required is swallowing some enzymes before ingestion.

or you could just..

not eat meat

>>11001105
bingo we have a winner

Why do you want to live so much, retards? I want a diet which doesnt make me fat or with a chronic disease, but gives me a lethal heart attack/failure after 10 years of adopting it

>>10997275
I consider 250 days of a fish "suffering" to be morally equivalent to stubbing my toe slightly. Not a bad stub, mind you, that would be equivalent to centuries of fish purgatory.

>>11001312

>hey look at me I'm so edgy I don't care one iota about the hellish existence my species put this lower species through because ya'know, I'm human teehee.

>>10998292
anon I...

>>11000119

As per usual, carni-tards and ket-cultist lie and make up bullshit. The links work perfectly fine. It's already been proven humans are herbivores, only herbivores can get heart disease, omnivores and carnivores CANNOT get heart disease unless you remove their thyroid.

>>11000323
>>11000281

Again, meat eaters are irattional low IQ morons.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374537/pdf/83-6691152a.pdf

>>10999122

meatcucks are getting BTFO left right and center ITT

Dr. Kim Williams - the President of American College of Cardiology said, "There are two types of cardiologists: vegans and those who haven't read the data."

Meat increases all-cause mortality: Nurses health study cohort https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27479196

AARP cohort https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19307518

American Heart Association Presidential advisory http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2017/06/15/CIR.0000000000000510

AO Cohort https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2057469?access_num=2057469&link_type=MED&dopt=Abstract

Meat raises cholesterol (heart disease risk) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9006469

Meat increases heme iron stores (cancer risk) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24243555

Meat and nitrate (cancer risk); AARP cohort https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28487287

Meat consumption associated with obesity https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19308071 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19559132

Meat raises igf-1 levels (cancer risk) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2743036/pdf/ukmss-27731.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12433724

Meat contains mutagens/carcinogens (cancer risk) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15199546

Meat (SFA) induce inflammatory markers towards metabolic syndrome https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11278967/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19056664/

Vegan Studies:

Many credible physicians recommend Whole-food plant-based diets (WFPB). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

All the major dietetics and health organizations in the world agree that vegan and vegetarian diets can be healthy https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/dieteticorgs

>>11001660

Physicians nutrition Update:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

College of family physicians of Canada:

http://www.cfp.ca/content/63/10/744?etoc

Whole-food plant-based diets are the only diets shown to reverse heart disease:

Dr. Richard Fleming showing progression with low-carb diet and reversal with WFPB

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1110832

Dr. Dean Ornish reversing heart disease with a WFPB diet

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9863851

Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn Jr reversing heart disease with a WFPB diet

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25198208

Vegans have the highest life expectancy ever recorded https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11434797

Cancer:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22121108

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11743810

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4135519/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18789600

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22342103

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15955547

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19279082

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980957

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3081176

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22867847

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21422422

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12588089

Diabetes:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Diabetes/wireStory?id=2244647

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19386029/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24523914

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19351712

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18481955

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23509418

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16596361

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15983191

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23509418

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24149445

>>11001664
>>11001660
>>11001657
>>11001654
>>10999094

Heart Disease:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17518696

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/108/22/2757.full.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7019459

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426

Osteoporosis:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25352269

American Dietetics Association Position on veganism:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

Longest Living Population:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11434797

Low Carbohydrate Diets and mortality:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038

Plant foods have a complete Amino Acid profile: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/25/e197.full

Benefits of a vegan diet:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4691673/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4245565/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4583329/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4844163/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677007/

>>11000711

Nice try.

--Chicken--

A vast array of studies from top universities and independent researchers has found that eating chickens, cows, and other animals promotes cancer in many forms. Large studies in England and Germany showed that vegetarians were about 40 percent less likely to develop cancer compared to meat-eaters, the most common forms being breast, prostate, and colon cancers.

Decades of scientific study have linked dietary cholesterol to cardiovascular disease — Americas number-one cause of death, killing nearly 2,200 people daily. Saturated fat is present in all meat and fish, even chicken and turkey cooked without the skin.

Eating meat also puts you at a greater risk for food poisoning because animal products are often tainted with fecal contamination during slaughter or processing. Fecal contamination in chicken, especially, is a major problem. According to a Consumer Reports study, 97 percent of raw chicken in U.S. supermarkets is contaminated with bacteria that could make customers sick. So if you eliminate animal products from your diet, you'll also be eliminating your exposure to the most common carrier of these bacteria.

A serving of chicken contains just as much cholesterol as red meat. And eggs contain three times that. Cholesterol is linked to clogged arteries and heart disease.

>>11001673
>>11000711

Grilled chicken—a popular alternative to fried—commonly contains PhIP (2-Amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b]pyridine), which may contribute to the development of certain types of cancers including breast and prostate.

A common industry practice involves feeding chickens arsenic in order to make them grow faster. It’s highly toxic to humans and can cause cancer, dementia, neurological problems, and other ailments.

HCAs (heterocyclic amines) are found in meats cooked at high temperature, including chicken, and have been linked to an increased risk of cancer.

A Consumer Reports analysis found that 83 percent of fresh, whole broiler chickens purchased across the US had high levels of campylobacter or salmonella. Campylobacter is the leading cause of food poisoning in the U.S.

Detectable levels of E. coli were discovered in as much as 65 percent of broiler chickens in a USDA study. This comes from fecal contamination during processing, making organic chickens also at risk as well as the more common conventionally raised chickens. According to Consumer Reports, more than 1 million Americans become ill each year as a result of undercooked chicken.

Avian flu may have dropped out of the mainstream media’s attention, but it’s still a very serious illness that is transmitted through poultry. The mutating nature of the disease means more cases of pneumonia, multiple organ failure and death are likely as a result of too many chickens living in crowded and unsanitary conditions where the disease spreads.

With more than 9 billion chickens raised for food in the U.S. every year, the environmental impact is nothing short of astonishing. Highly toxic animal waste ruins land, seeps into and contaminates water, makes air un-breathable and devastates a tremendous amount of dwindling resources, all of which take a toll not just on chicken eaters, but everyone else on the planet.

>>10997752
Why are the best tasting the worse to eat?

>>10997233
>Inflammation
Yeah maybe if you're eating processed meats but only garbage Americans eat that crap and the same can be said about sugar and corn syrup.
Eating meat, especially organ meat is probably the healthiest thing you can do. The amount of inflammation it would cause would be negligible, comparable to eating a tomato or some mushrooms.

>>11001673
>>11001676
>>11000711

just accept it, you meat eating carnist cucks, you're on the wrong side of history and you are basically science denying flat earther equivalents at this point.

sources:

http://www.grist.org/factory-farms/2011-03-03-time-to-end-insane-practice-of-lacing-chicken-feed-with-arsenic

http://pcrm.org/search/?cid=2087

http://www.peta.org/living/vegetarian-living/top-10-reasons-not-to-eat-chickens.aspx

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/consumer-reports-chicken-salmonella-campylobacter-bacteria/story?id=9210116

http://thefoodwatchdog.com/04/public-health/pathogens/studies-find-resistant-bacteria-in-meat/

Debate rebuttals:

http://www.godfist.com/vegansidekick/guide.php

https://freefromharm.org/eating-animals-addressing-our-most-common-justifications/

>>11001677

Because its loaded with salt?

>>11001681

>another meat eating retard ignoring the fuck ton of data posted ITT

>>11001684
>Implying a vegan diet would be sustainable.
You're the climate denier if you think you're not importing shit from literally all over the world to have a balanced plant based diet. Also not biologically sustainable even your supplements are coming from animals either that or you're dying from malnutrition. Post a picture of your shitty teeth and your bug eyes to prove you're really vegan.

>>11001688
I'm not going to read a wall of text, how about rebutting the points I made. If inflammation is your concern, I agree we shouldn't eat processed meats. If you're saying Zero inflammatory response then surely you don't eat any nightshade vegetatables then?

>>10998187
>>10998198
samefag

>>10997275
Honestly this quantifies a very interesting variable that I've thought a lot about before. But it makes it seem so absurd.

>>10997233
I eat meat because its delcious and pure green diets are dumb expensive and hard af to get the nutrients you need.
Plus Vegitarians are okay but Vegans are all liberal phychos.

>>11001657
Meat isn't bad per se. Meat helped us develop big brains. It's the unapologetic defense of mass-producing shit meat that's low IQ.
If we ate meat once a week only, nobody would have a problem really.

>>11001673
Question: is this also true for meat from wild animals? The kind that grew up without steroids, antibiotics and supplements?

>>11001694
You're still ignoring the fact that meat production imports WAY more for a single serving of meat for you than a human would consume for a year.

>>11001768
That's just wrong. Good meat is more expensive than good fruit and plant. You're deluding yourself.

>>11001768
> pure green diets are dumb expensive
Nigga what? Where?

I have no qualms about eating meat because I arbitrarily value the lives of certain other animals and humans more.

God, I love eating meat. The animal's suffering really gives the dish that extra delicious flavor.

>>10999263
The population of non-human animals is far higher than the population of humans, and therefore animal suffering is a much higher share of all of the suffering that exists.

>>11002185
That's why you weight it by sentience.
amount of animal suffering * 0 = 0

animal based diet promoters BTFO

>>10997233
So what the fuck do I eat, nigger? Nightshades which are literally toxic? Fuck off.

>>11002217
idiot

>>10998183
You and your girlfriend are full of shit

>>10997893
All of them on drugs

>>10998238
>You do you. There are mountain of empirical study showing that eating animal protein increase aging, risk of cancer, and heart disease
These are fake and gay you know it

>>10998268
Keto and carnivore isn't we,ve been eating that way for thousands of year before agriculture fucked everything up you vegtard

>>10998428
https://youtu.be/isIw2AN_-XU
Get educated bitch

>>10999122
> It literally is what our bodies thrive on
What are the masai and inuits KEK

>>10997275
>direct suffering
>quantifiable
science just became dumber

>>11001660
>studies that do not isolate the variable
>no reproductibility of results
>no dose-effect
As shill as it gets.

>>11001684
>judging human diets on animal criteria, not taking into account cooking and other cultural stuff
how much did it hurt to hit your head as a baby anon?

The average vegan I know is a healthy weight and cycles regularly. The average person I know who eats meat never exercises, drinks too much, and eats shit like Chiko rolls and Mrs Mac's pies.
Are there any studies that compare a healthy vegan lifestyle to a healthy omnivore lifestyle (exercise, grass fed, etc)?

>>10999252
Harvard studies have lied to scapegoat fat instead of sugar, present doubt remains.

>>11001684
>Chimps
>Strictly frugivores

>>10997233
Eat the bugs, bigot.

An animal’s potential for suffering should be determined based on brain size. If I took neurons from major nociceptive centers in the brain, grew a small network of them in a Petri dish and stimulated them, I could theoretically quantify this petri dish’s level of suffering. I could also approximate that to an animal based on the number of connections it has in certain areas. Am I wrong?

>>11002016
>imports way more
Sorry, from where? I didn't realize calfs were raised on a diet of avocados, onions and other faggotry sent from all over the planet.

>>10997233
For everyone of these threads on /sci/ I'm eating veal and calves liver every night for a week.

>>11002762
>Am I wrong?
yes.

>>11002465
Yeah and cavemen 100k years ago have average lifespan of 30 years, don't brush their teeth, don't wipe their ass. If you want to live like a dumb cavemen be my guest

>>11002762
>Am I wrong?
Not brain size, but their capacity to suffer (e.g. neurological build).

If you discriminate on brain size, or cognitive capability then on smaller scale there is no reason to not also discriminate people based on cognitive functions. Low IQ people sit on the back of the bus and get worse treatment. Some people with actual brain damage, who have less cognitive function than a cow gets thrown into sausage grinder. We dont do that because despite variance in cognitive functions humans have equal capacity to suffer, feel pain and anguish.

Same deal with animals, more developed animals like vertebraes have just as much neurological complexities as humans do, and feel as much pain, anguish, suffering as we do. Thus we should not purposely torture them and kill them for our own self fellating enjoyment in consuming their flesh. This is why I have lesser problem with people eating lower order animals like clams, oyster, etc because they have less capacity to feel pain.

>>10997379
Eating animal products causes a lot more plants to be farmed and harvested than eating plant products you absolute fucktard

do you guys know any right wing vegan?

>>10997233
>climate destroying
Oh... you're one of those people.

Anyway, carbohydrates cause inflammation as well. Since they increase the appetite, they're even worse. Sugar increases the appetite even worse. Sugar is always added.

Eating meat sometimes causes me mild pain, but not as much as carbohydrates and sugar.

The quantity of food eaten is the root of the problem. No one just eats a serving a carbohydrate or food with 20-30g of sugar per serving. Most processed foods have double as many sugar that needed in one day. Only 14g of sugar is needed per day. Even foods which are promoted as being healthy such as raisins have double that. Since carbohydrates and sugar increase the appetite, it's almost impossible to avoid over eating.

>>11003035
Sugar and carbohydrates are the problem.
https://pfam.xfam.org/family/PF00084

>>10998002
This is legitimately possible, and the mechanism suggested by OPs article shows why. The generalized immune response probably includes cytokine cascades. Cytokines are neurologically active peptides. This can have direct effects on the symptoms you describe (brain fog and depression).

But while the diet may treat the symptoms it is not a cure so it can be a double edged sword for other organ systems, as disorders of the inflammation-modulating pathways can be. I think its advisable for the red meat eaters to eat the minimum amount necessary to get the effect, and offset the exposure by regular exercise and supplementation of soluble fiber as the cancer risk increases for the intestines and alimentary canal in general.

>>11003049
>>11003035

15g is the limit recommended on added sugars, and/or liquefied fruit juices. Average daily intake is currently around 90g/day which works out to 75 POUNDS of white sugar a day.

Carbohydrates from whole fruits and vegetables do not count at all.

>>11003072
Raisins have 28g of sugar. I stopped eating bananas, and when I ate them again, I found them nauseating because they're so sweet.

The only fruits I'm able to eat without making me sick are peaches and cherries.

>>11003032
Right wing vegan, reporting in.

>>10997275
>sentience multiplier
>suffering per day
I feel like these are terms from a Darwinian/Utilitarian pinball machine fuck vegans are retarded.

>>10997953
nah looks like you'll probably have a stroke though. Enjoy.

>>11001331
He's saying the fish aren't really suffering very much, hence the quote marks.

>>11002454
So are you, but you're also useless.
>info doesn't fit my world view
>let's use a lame insult

>>11003072
>Average daily intake is currently around 90g/day which works out to 75 POUNDS of white sugar a day.
What?

>>11002792
Raised on a diet of onions-based products. These are cheaply imported and of low quality.

>>11003574
90g = 75lb
I dunno... metric to imperial conversions?

>>11003535
lmao I know what study you're talking about and you just proved you're incapable of actually reading said study.

>>11003144
nah i dont think i will

>>11003580
Sorry 90g was my personal count, 75lb annual (per year) per capita (US) consumption of sugar

Its almost impossible to stay under 15g of added sugar a day desu I'm weak

>>10997781
You merely sweeten the deal.

>>11001684
Nice propaganda

>>10997233
I'd tell you that you'll have to take meat from my cold, thick and muscular dead hands but I don't think these vegan twigs of yours are strong enough.

>>11002990
>This is why I have lesser problem with people eating lower order animals like clams, oyster, etc because they have less capacity to feel pain.

But they still live.

>>11004593

nigger are you just going to ignore that absolute mountain fuck ton of evidence i just posted? typical meat cuck. also nice non-existent source.

>>11001654
>>11001657
>>11001660
>>11001664
>>11001666
>>11001673
>>11001676
>>11001684

every single double digit IQ meat eating retard ITT ignored all the evidence posted.

>>11005111
Keep posting your 'evidence' while I enjoy my steak, you dumb niggerfaggot.

>>10997233
imagine being a pussy

>>11001666
Nice, post varying sources. I don't trust American 'studies'.

imagine not cannabalising the nearest vegan

>>11005111
And every single counter argument or counterstudy was ignored by you anon.

>>11005059
I find it funny theres "vegans" who say oh but its ok to eat seafood because its not a poor cow suffering in the slaughterhouse.

>>11005109
You didn't post a legitimate source either, just a propaganda site.
>human stomach has low acidity
Your chart is completely invalid.

>>11005896
they want change and want to stand for something so its more feelings than pure turbo rationalism.
if vegans were the ones who designed, built and ran farms/commons and took care of the animals with their feels then surely they could make the world a better place and feed themselves properly too knowing that there was no suffering other than death which can also be very reduced in suffering if done nicely. you need to eat animal products to survive, industrial vitamins dont count.

>>10997233
>eat the bug
>it carries diseases
>your body mutates it into a new ebolaids
>you now have bug ebolaids

>>11005893
Not him, but which one?

>>11005896
Bullshit. Vegan = no fish either.

>>11005939
>need animal products to survive
Absolute bullshit. Name a single animal pruduct you need to survive.

>>11005996

>>10997839
>There's a 2 week long effect roughly. Eating less doesn't do shit.
Source? What about all the studies that find a dose-dependent link?

>>11006005
lol. Yeah I fucked up there. Generally, the orthography and grammar quality on 4chan deteriorated over the years. I wonder why.

>>10997233
>Imagine eating meat

Imagine giving a shit

>>10997787
No.
It doesn't.

>>11006056
You're right, it's only 8 times as much.

>>10997893
>almond milk
As far as I know almonds are not lactating.
So don't call it milk.

>>11006066

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/05/vast-animal-feed-crops-meat-needs-destroying-planet

>>10998002
Godspeed anon!
I'm in the same boat and I have to say it made tremendous difference in my life.

>>10998287
Redpill is helluva a drug.

>>10999092
How about NO.

>>10999581
BASED CARNIVOREANON

>>11002472
This.

>>11002809
Keep it up.

>>11003032
Hitler

I don't give a fuck. I eat meat because it is tasty, and I buy hallal/kosher when possible because the animal died in a much more violent and painful death.

>>10997233
damn that cate looks delicious

>>10997233
More meat for me. Nice.

>>10998188
carnicuck cope

>>11002185
This is why utilitarianism is retarded

>>10997233
>posts picture of delicious meat
good luck getting people to eating bugs switch schlomo

Why are all the retarded answers in this thread from meat preachers?
Not a vegan btw.

>>11000242
Doing pullups is easy when you malnourish yourself since you've got so much less weight to actually pull up, also 11 pullups. I've never met a vegan who even looked strong enough to open a jar, much less hoist their entire body weight with nothing put the pathetic toothpicks they call arms.

>>11000242
when I was a kid I was one of those hungry skeletons
I was proud of my extremely low body fat percentage exposing my """""six pack"""""
I could do countless pull ups in a session
the highest I got to before getting bored was something like 115 once
my arms were so small my biceps wouldn't even fill the sleeve of an xxs tee shirt
I grew up, learned about actual fitness, and bulked up to a mildly respectable 6' 165lbs
obviously I'm MUCH stronger than when I was a teenager, but no longer have a visible """"six pack"""" (still have visible abs, but not nearly as defined), and can do a max of 15-20 pull ups per set
you're not impressing anyone

>>11006597
Crazy/ignorant people whining about vegans on the Internet has been a thing for a while now. Haven't been much on /ck/, have you?

>>10997233
Imagine not having a balanced diet

>>10997233
I don't eat red meat, I cook it till it's brown

>>11006769
based ketchup eater

>>11000242
Herbivores have physical strength. But they lack brain power

>>10997233
I ate ribs last night. This seems to have caused by hands and ankles to hurt today.

>>10997262
>I'll enjoy my cancer-causing rotting flesh, you enjoy your bean curd

See how I can also change the words to make your food sound bad?

>>10999547
>Farmland is farmland.
It really doesn't work that way. Most pasture is nonarable.

>>10997275
>when you get carried away with your bait and take it too far
>catfish farms
>battery operated egg cage has a sentience multiplier or 0.9
>??????
Is this actual bait or some fresh new form of schizoposting?

>>11006926
t. physics&math degrees bud

>>11006636
6' 167 lbs, lower bf than you so I prob have more muscle lmao

>>10997470
That chart is missing the 99% "Becomes unbearable to talk to"

>>10997233
>eat veggies only
>get fucked
>skinny as fuck
>dead man walking
>veggies are not enough
>eat fish
>felt fresh
>never believe a fucking veggiefag

vegetables are bad too not just meat even water and milk but you can't stop eating or drinking them and know you faggot we are still evolving so it's ok our body can take care of it now fuckoff and the story above is not mine I'm not retarded enough to be a vegetarian

>>10997233
>he thinks every single human on earth digests food exactly the same
>every human has the same micro biome in their stomach
>we all have the same metabolism
Ummmm no sweetie. Some of us can eat glass and be perfectly fine and others fucking die from licking peanuts

>>11008395
You might want to check this thread again.

>>11008458
Last time I checked, plants weren't infused with antibiotics and growth hormones.