/sci/ - Science & Math

https://spacenews.com/air-force-certified-falcon-heavy-for-national-security-launch-but-more-work-needed-to-meet-required-orbits/

What if mankind (or rather any form in intelligent life) evolved on a super-habitable planet where the gravity can be around 1.3g, how would you see their space program develop to handle this? Assuming that the atmosphere isn't that much thicker than Earth's.

Would there be the same kinds of rockets we have now, just much bigger for less payload? Or would other forms of lifting be emphasized?

>What that means is that Falcon Heavy has been certified “for certain orbits,” said Thompson. “It’s not certified for all of our most stressing national security space orbits,” he said. “We continue to work with SpaceX to mature their design and I think that’s going well.”
>Oy Vey goyim you can't just launch into whatever orbit you want
>We are going to need at least an extra 20m to make sure your vehicle meets the requirements, surely 30m is a small price to pay for reaching these valuable orbits, you wouldn't skimp on our mere 40m dollar fee to certify your vehicle would you?

>>10992821
Well they'd need bigger vehicles in general if the gravity is higher but the atmosphere is the same. Planes would need greater wingspans and lighter frames if they wanted to get off the ground. As to rockets and SSTO's, early versions might actually simply lack the necessary efficiency to escape from a 1.3g world, and so while their accomplishments in space (assuming our technological progress and theirs occur over roughly the same length of time) might be less significant, however once they do reach space one might expect their propulsion technology at the very least to be significantly better say by the time they perform their first manned launch. By necessity they'll have to build better engines than we would have to for equivalent tasks, push the gs just a bit higher and you'd see space programs only taking off once high TWR nuclear rockets have been developed.

>ARSE is real

What have you done today to appreciate the brilliance and majesty that is the ROMBUS?

>>10992848
>By necessity they'll have to build better engines than we would have to for equivalent tasks, push the gs just a bit higher and you'd see space programs only taking off once high TWR nuclear rockets have been developed.
So something like this?

This seems to be a more accurate composite of what SpaceX is building for the current iteration of Starship.

>>10992884
>Liberty ship

Why are Americans so fucking cringe

>>10992894
>Here's the world's most advanced rocket bro

>>10992899
If one were designing a closed-cycle gas-core nuclear SSTO that can send 10 blue whales to space, then one can name whatever the hell one wants.

I'm just gonna drop this here. Goodnight /sfg/.
https://youtu.be/BPv0VZcvm4Q?t=746

>>10992899
I'd rather launch two million pounds of cargo on a rocket with a slightly cringe name than be a yuro-peon who's pathetic scrabbling attempts to piece together a few shreds of space relevance whither entirely in the glorious nuclear glow of indisputable American space supremacy.

>>10992899
seething europoor

Will the SLS and Orion fly????

>>10992935
Yes, those programs have too much political momentum behind them not to fly at least once, unless they fumble even harder than they already have (which seems unlikely even with the incompetentcy of NASA).

>>10992902
It reminds me of something.

>>10992894
Are you sure those canards are to scale?

>>10992925
>>10992927
Enjoy your patriot act and NDAA

>>10992925
>Israeli space supremacy

Ftfy, you don't get to do anything without schlomos approval.

10992988
You have to be 18 to use this site

>>10992997
Delusional

Lets try to bring discussion back on topic.

>>10993014
Oh the wonderful ships we'll be able to build on the moon where idiots can't get in the way

>>10992894
Expendable Launch Vehicles

>>10992894
Somehow the blockiness makes it even better.

>>10993168
Post the proper image, you know the one.

>>10992899
>cringing about naming cheap, single-use ultraheavy boosters after a class of practically disposable naval cargo vessels that filled the same kind of purpose in the oceans

>>10993175
>"Liberty" ships
>Used to deliver war goods to enslave the world to ZOG

Cool name bro

>>10992981
Most European states have no serious speech or privacy protections to speak of. Not to mention basically no respect for general self-defense in several places, even if it's 100% hand-to-hand.

To tie back into the proper topics at hand, rocket experimentation is much easier in the US because we're not nearly so anal about both business formation and certain types of potentially hazardous devices.

>>10993181
>ZOG
So you think that the US, the prime supporter of a state that has as part of its second-strike strategy [the Samson Option] includes destroying at least the 100 top cities in Europe, had no say in the creation of this option?
Curious. It grow curiouser still when you reflect on how the US uses that nation's air force as a beta tester for most of its new air combat toys. Think closely about who really controls who here.

>>10993184
>Be American
>Thinks he has privacy protection

Absolute top lul, what is NDAA, what is patriot act, what is mass government surveillance, what is mass corporate surveillance, what is no knock raids, what is stop and frisk, etc...

>Muh freedom of speech

Instead of getting a jail term you get hit with hundreds of thousands of dollars of lawfare by Jewish NGOs and made unemployable forever. Based.

>Self defence

Literally the only thing you have going for you, unless you shoot a nigger (your most likely assailant) and then you are put on nationwide coverage and made unemployable.

SLS will fly before Starship
Cap this post

>>10993186
>Vaguely implies that US had input into the Sampson option which includes US cities on its list
>IAF is a testing ground for new shit

Wow what a non argument, let's just ignore the mountains of evidence.

>>10992894
How can they control the roll whan landing? Only with thrust vectoring with multiple engines?

>>10993188
Veering into /pol/ (or maybe /k/?) territory on some of that.
That the rights are violated does not mean the rights do not exist; it is in fact an enormous risk, because any administration that wants to apply penalties for violations of Constitutional rights literally could not be stopped, at all. That's the Sword of Damocles over law enforcement and intelligence agencies: as soon as it's unfashionable for them to behave as they have been since 2002, they are all fucked six ways from Sunday.

>>10993195
The flaps are hinged in parallel with the vehicle body, allowing for pitch and roll control. Yaw control remains to be answered.

>>10993200
Yaw is probably going to be down to RCS, the mass of one of those big fuck off fins is a lot of extra gas for a maneuver that won't be performed much, pitch and roll are way more important.

>>10993193
They choose certain parts of the US as secondary targets, but the Israeli psyche is certainly focused on Europe and I would expect those selections to be included or excluded depending on the circumstances at-hand. Especially considering modern history.

>>10993200
Its roll control that matters.
Besides, the only way BFR can do roll control is by putting their upper fins not parallel with the vehicle body. Quite simple solution.

>>10993212
The surfaces flap up and down.

>>10993206
>RCS
What if they run out of fluid?

>>10993221
Like I said, losing that leg is a shitload extra mass to add to the RCS system.

>What if the vehicle randomly explodes

>>10993221
Only a matter of time until RCS is powered by hot-fire methalox thrusters, too.

>>10993228
Mah dik is burnin

>>10991113
it's clearly explained in the movie that they've already built centrifugal station(s) in Colorada secretly, but they have no way of getting them into space without gravitational manipulation, which they haven't solved yet. So instead, they poured all of their available resources into the Endurance mission as a last roll of the dice.

>oh hey guys, how are you going with all of that starvation and thirst and choking to death? Anyway we need some more money's to yeet this small tube which only 500 people can live on, here's a free raffle ticket and you just might be one of the lucky crew!

>>10993228
Too slow spool up, RCS needs to be instant as fuck.

Large van on the scene. Our raptors may have arrived!

>>10993246
There's only three raptors, truck looks too big for that senpai.

>>10993251
Support hardware maybe in addition to the raptors? IIRC wasnt SN6 transported in a fairly large crate all its own?

>>10993255
Possibly, guess we'll wait and see. Elon did say the prototype would be pretty much ready for the presentation which is only a week away.

>>10993168
Get with the times, we're all about those expendable launch towers now.

>>10993173
I really should've put more effort into this. I didn't think it'd be this relevant.

>>10993275
Nah it's perfect m8

what is this for?

>>10993293
Dead nigger storage

>>10993293
probably apart of the fuel tank

>>10993293
I'd say it's a header tank, but the issue with that is that the bulkheads are already installed and there's no way they'd be able to get them in without at minimum cracking the bottom of the rocket open.

>>10993293
Water boiler duh

>>10993304
>... the bulkheads are already installed and there's no way they'd be able to get them in without at minimum cracking the bottom of the rocket open.
Unless they relocated the header tanks to the space between the lower bulkhead and the dance floor.

>>10992807
Unlikely since he's going for the Von Braun sci-fi rocket aesthetic.
Also >>>/tv/

Why isn't it smooth like he promised.

>>10993340
they haven't grinded down the welds yer

FLOP

>inb4 Thunderf00t goes kills himself when Spaceship enables Elon to build Hyperloops on Mars

>>10993340
It is still just a prototype. Also, there may not be any reason for it to be perfectly smooth.

>https://spacenews.com/air-force-certified-falcon-heavy-for-national-security-launch-but-more-work-needed-to-meet-required-orbits/
What does this mean? Airforce will skip them in the new rounds of contracts? Or airforce wants to fund development for further integration?

>>10993275

Mars Express view of Terra Sabaea and Arabia Terra

It comprises data gathered on 17 June 2019

The ground resolution at the centre of the image is approximately 1 km/pixel

https://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2019/09/Mars_Express_view_of_Terra_Sabaea_and_Arabia_Terra

40MB high res image available for those brave enough.

YEEAH BOI SECOND WING IS GOING UP

>>10993472
>>10993486

>>10993419
>Thunderf00t
who?

>>10993522

>two 180° apart large aero surfaces that aren't also the legs
so the Tintin design is truly RIP

>>10993232
>but they have no way of getting them into space without gravitational manipulation
Because, the author was a fucking moron who didn't just have them build it in space like what you would do in reality. It was a ginormous ass pull reason for shitty writing and worse plot.

>>10993498
A turbo faggot. Don't search for his shit.

>>10993498
Observe >>10992924

>>10993524
this thing looks so hagard i love it

also

>SLS WILL NEVER FLY
>ORION WILL NEVER FLY
>DEFUND NASA AND BREAKUP ULA

>>10993524
lol guys remember when elon started building a water tank in a field around christmas?

>>10992924
>871k subscribers
jesus

>>10993528
No, Kip Thorne got it right, relying on rockets that spew reaction mass to move around will doom our future in space to one of gritty near-no existence.

The true way forward, long term, is to go full Star Trek and understand how to manipulate gravity as we would any other force, which means, at the very least, that we can near-effortlessly send obscene amounts of raw materials into space more or less effortlessly. In the case of Interstellar, they knew the best chance they had at saving the vast bulk of humanity was by figuring out how to do this, which was why they were building those giant concrete O'Neill cylinders on earth in secret, hoping that they'd be able to figure out how to launch them easily/cheaply.

Now, remember that in this movie they acknowledge that to be an extreme long shot, which is why the Endurance mission is explicitly stated to be a low-risk "plan B" to preserve the existence of the species by using frozen embryos and artificial wombs to seed a new, most likely archaic human population on a habitable world in the event that they find one. Thorne/Nolan clearly implied that it's this archaic population that eventually evolves to become the bulkspace-inhabiting post-humans who place the wormhole in the first place, and save TARS and Cooper's life to allow him to give humans the gravity equation thousands of years earlier so that the original human population can live as a "thank you" for his saving Brand's life and allowing her to seed Planet Iceland and allow them to exist in the first place.

It's not quite 2001, but as sci-fi goes, it easily ranks up there with the best of the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

>>10993567
The MASA vibes are probably the best thing about it. Watching NASA get BTFO to the Moon by something that looks like it was built by the Apostle Dr. Kwadwo Safo Kantanka, The Star of Africa, will be absolutely fucking glorious.

>>10993582
Those are probably more interested in his videos about pwning creationism rather than is defeatist views on spaceflight.

>>10993583
>No, Kip Thorne got it right
You fucking moron. They were going to rely on manipulating fucking gravity like a bunch of hopped up sci-fi hippies. You've been taking too much sci-fi to heart. Interstellar is a fucking piece of shit fantasy sci-fi mess. Don't speak to me again.

crane has left. Next up, the fairing nose, legs, stainless covers for the flaps?

>>10993651
only two flaps now? That looks like 180 degree symmetry

raptor is here boys

>>10993340
These are still prototypes, the welds don't have to be as good as possible due to the inherent durability of the steel. I think they've said they're going to use a more rigid alloy for the production version which won't wrinkle, plus they haven't cleaned up those welds yet because there's no reason to do so.

>>10993666
the future is now old space

>>10993666
here, have more pixels

>not for flight
what?

>>10993677
the "not for flight" ring is a hold-down to secure the engine by grabbing onto the combustion chamber during transport

>>10993677
Probably to indicate that the part needs to be removed for the engine to be used. The red clamp is a part which is "not for flight".

>>10993683
>tear package here, attach nozzle-down, shake well before using

>>10993686
I love how rustic the whole operation is, they've just got one of the most modern rocket engines in the world using the most complicated practical fuel cycle autists have managed to come up with just sitting out there like a piece of random construction equipment instead of sealing it away in some kind of multi-million dollar air sealed environmentally controlled warehouse. Not only that but they're going to slap that motherfucker onto a rusty steel dildo and it's actually going to fly. It's like if Sea Dragon (peace be upon it) were real.

big boi crane is on the move

>>10993725

>>10993708
"He built this in a field with a box of scraps!"
I can't wait to see this shitheap soar into the sky, proving you can just weld shit together and you're good to go for orbit.

>>10993578
Don't let your memes be dreams.

>>10993527
it was too good to be true.

>>10993735
He should just skip the hypothetical 18m upscale and go straight to building something like NEXUS, a SpaceXUS.

>>10993769
two stage to orbit is the way to go, SSTO is a meme in an age of reusable boosters

>>10993771
Yeah, I have no idea why most images of NEXUS are labeled SSTO, it's got two stages, the fat ass is the booster and the rest of it is a massive second stage. The booster was meant to use a combination of drogue chutes and retrorockets to make a gentle splashdown in the ocean for easy reuse, and these days you'd have the second return as well.

>>10993769
>imperial units

Lmao I wont even bother googling that retarded shit

I'm spooked
this is spooky

>>10993851
what is spooky about it laddie?

yfw the vertical stabilizer is attached

>>10993851
Spooky metal skeleton
sends shivers down my struts

" rear moving fins " according to Elon

>chode with flaps
Dropped

This looks like shit

Fuck SpaceX.

New Glenn it is.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1175814780323545093

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1175815628525060096

*be's the ultimate spacecraft in your path*

>>10993927
*stirs your LOX*

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1175818733648003072

>>10993947
Tim Dodd once again proudly volunteering his own retardation in public
my big issue with him is that he has a hard time separating the absolute truths of spaceflight from the normally mostly trues

>>10993947

Based Elon BTFOing Estronaut

>>10993909
>STOP DOING ROCKETS

raptor changed?

>>10993972
it's been simplified, a lot of that rat's nest was sensors

>>10993972
It's a test engine that was ridden hard and put away wet until it shit itself. It's okay for the presentation, and will be in the lineup with the previous Merlin iterations.

>>10993976
It got longa

>>10993981
maybe you got shorter

>>10993978
The right one was for the test?

>>10993981
the gimbal mount is pre-installed?

>>10993972
Left is new Raptor. Right is Starhopper Raptor seen few months ago.

>>10993972
Angle of the second image is lower, looks like the gimbaling hinge is installed on the right, and most of the flight data gathering sensor equipment has been stripped off.

i think this idea has wings

>>10993972
Why the fuck are there diagnostic lines ON THE DIAGNOSTIC LINES?!?!?!

How redundant is the fucking redundancy on these things?!?!?

What's her performance guys?

>>10994050
It is able to place a small moon on orbit

>>10994050
it explodes on the pad, then the whole world goes bankrupt

new Elon tweets on Starship

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/with_replies

>>10994058
>Let me just go ahead and like every single one of these tweets before I take the screenshot so Redd- uh 4chan knows what my opinion is.

>>10994050
It could put the Burj Dubai into Lunar orbit.

Few more launches till the year end for SpaceX.

>>10994074
>looking at likes in the first place

How do you even coordinate 12 thousand satellites in relation to what's already out there.

>>10993173
ULA got in trouble for this image because of propellant depots. Expendable launch vehicles strangely disappear within 15 years.

>>10994151
well, they're all mostly in one place

>>10994151
Computers

>>10994050
The fallout from one launch would trigger an extinction

>>10994050
Y the fuc my pp hard?

>>10993972
BLUUUUUE! SHINYYYYYYYYY!

>>10994213
Because that Korolev cross shaped impact crater.

>>10994050
>makes the Nova Ultima look modest

>>10994058
So they're using absolutely every component they have on that ship in order to do a simple landing maneuver?
Seems error prone.

>>10994242
If they didn't need the component it wouldn't be on the ship now would it?

>>10994242
like parachutes on capsules and like aerosurfaces on planes, if the flakeirons fail, everybody dies

>>10994242
The flip isn't actually super simple. You're transition from aerodynamic falling to tail down hovering. Not a stable maneuver.

>>10994088
It's so nice that they actually looked at how to start Starlink with Falcons. Other companies would've just waited for Starship. And waited. And waited...

>>10994242
No vehicle has components on it which do nothing. And yes, VTOL is a pretty dicey mode of flight for anything that isn't a helicopter, however unlike atmospheric craft rockets don't need to worry about ingesting intake air at the wrong temperature since they carry all fuel and oxidizer with them, so the challenge is inherently one of both building a properly balanced craft and designing avionic software to fly it correctly.

>>10994268
>for anything that isn't a helicopter
I see you've never tried to fly a helicopter

>>10994268
>No vehicle has components on it which do nothing.

>>10994268
Flying a helicopter is like doing a headlock on a greased pig and if it escapes you die.

>>10994273
Never flown either but I'm fairly sure considering the number of crashes that it's safer to fly a helicopter compared to something like a harrier. In general helicopters are better at VTOL compared to jet aircraft, they don't have to deal with hot air ingestion as much.
>>10994275
I said components, not an entire vehicle which does nothing. SLS is unique in that regard.

>>10994285

So is this the Space Renaissance? It feels like it.

>>10992821
Perhaps they'd be forced to squeeze out every advantage such as launching from mountain tops

>>10994320
If Starship works it's the dawn of the new space age.

>>10994324
horizontal launch from expendable balloons

>>10994320
Only SpaceX doing the genius thing.

>Nasa
Busy providing Alabama with jobs
>Europe
Lead by deluded retards
>Russia
Know what's up but have no money
>China
Slowest space program development ever
>India
Moving along, but still far behind the 3 big ones
>Japan
"This rocket is for peaceful exploration of space, no it's not an ICBM, ... please procreate."
>Brazil
They just sold it all to the Americans
>Everyone else
Literally North Korea being the most advanced.

>>10994334
Blue Origin is a good sleeper candidate if SpaceX stumbles. Bezos wants a moon base, and he has Jeff Bezos money.

>>10994275

>engines
>fuel tanks

For what our purpose?

>>10994345
Storing propellant?

>>10994344
Even the North Koreans have launched more payloads than BO... by all respect (for his money) they still havent done shit.

>>10992821
>Would there be the same kinds of rockets we have now, just much bigger for less payload? Or would other forms of lifting be emphasized?
On a higher gravity world you need more delta V to get to orbit, so more stages (think three stages to reach low orbit instead of 2 like on Earth). However, since there's more gravity, each stage needs a much higher thrust for its mass in order to keep a useful thrust to weight ratio. This means smaller stages. Like I already said though, the delta V requirements are higher, you you need a LOT of smaller, high thrust stages. Since we're dealing with the rocket equation here, things quickly go exponential, so even a small increase in gravity means a MUCH bigger, more complex rocket. Also, you're dealing with increased gravity losses, acceleration that is wasted simply counteracting falling and not speeding up, so your number of stages multiplies yet again. For chemical rockets, the point at which a launch vehicle can't be feasibly built is something between 1 and 2 G I believe. Past that point you need nuclear thermal upper stages at a minimum, and they need to be high thrust low dry-mass stages, too. On the very high end of the propulsion power spectrum, pretty much any planet can be launched from and achieve orbit around if you're using something like an Orion drive, which pretty much comes loaded with 300,000 m/s of delta V in a single stage and can easily pull enough G's to kill a human crew even with perfect shock dampening. A 10 G metallic super-Earth with a radius of 10,000 km would be easy to launch into orbit from using Orion, it wouldn't be too nice for the crew however. An Orion drive ship could achieve orbit around Jupiter if it started off floating under a giant hot air balloon in the atmosphere.

>>10994334
The chinese are watching spacex closely and will probably steal a bunch of their tech soon

>>10994324
Why not just use the mountain?

>>10992878
VEY
BEY
LOONG NIECK
GET THAT UP YA

>>10994354
I'm ignoring all the Chink new-space companies, there's few that are now testing grasshopper type rockets, but none of them want to step on the governments toes, all their ideas are for mini launchers for cube sats.

>>10994344

>>10994351

Why does it need propellant? It's not going anywhere

>>10992881
would not have worked as advertised

>>10994363
How so?

>>10992881
More like ROMBASED

>>10994371
>the virgin Starship bellyflop
>the chad ROMBUS BUTTSLAM

>>10993032
unironically this
stages on the Moon can have a far lower thrust to mass ratio and still get decent thrust to weight ratio too, since weight-force is so much smaller there. That means even 'conventional' solid-core NTR with 'only' 600-900 Isp (using methane or hydrogen respectively) can easily be used to power SSTO-and-back shuttle craft. That's before you even consider the fact that you can build space elevators on the Moon (either hanging 'down' drawn towards Earth or flung 'out' by centripetal force away from Earth), or even just big electromagnetic accelerator sleds.

>>10994054
But can it place a small moon inside of THE moon?
What do our impact energies look like?

>>10994406
>cunning Earther plan to steal Phobos, 2244, colorized

>>10994285
Flying a helicopter is about the most unstable thing you can do.

Adult film actresses that do gangbang scenes might be able to fly a helicopter, those scenes look like, what flying a helicopter feels like.

>>10993191
the fact that you even need to make the claim shows how fast SpaceX is developing Starship. Nothing except for a sub-scale version of the Raptor engine even existed ten months ago, and they've already flown a Hopper and are most of the way through building two orbital prototypes right now. Prototypes that are supposed to start hopping within the next couple months, I may add. Meanwhile SLS was supposed to fly in 2018, and now it's not expected to fly until late 2020 at the EARLIEST, and that date itself is by no means firm.

>>10993234
It won't spool up, they'll be fed by gaseous methane and gaseous oxygen from the autogenous pressurant tanks, and lit via methalox torch. What'll likely be the case is the thrusters will start up a pilot flame, producing almost no thrust and burning almost no propellant gasses, but staying hot, and the valves feeding them will rapidly open and close sending bursts of reactants into the combustion chamber, which would instantly burn in short puffs of thrust or longer blasts depending on how long the valves stay open.
In the mean time they're using highly compresses methane as a cold gas working fluid for their thrusters, because it's faster to hammer out a design that way.

>>10994436
do we know that they're using gaseous methane for their RCS?
Hopper used nitrogen

>>10993251
Trucks don't change trailer sizes depending on what they're hauling. I've had trucks arrive at the factory I used to work at that carried a single tote of glycol solution, it was kinda nice when that happened because it usually meant that for the next hour I could fuck the dog instead of unloading a truck and getting him pout of the way before the next truck showed up.

>>10994442
that big black truck is a special truck for hauling raptors, too

>>10993311
I was gonna say, there's no guarantee the headers are still gonna be immersed in the lower main tank. It's probably a way of making it easier for maintenance and inspection, they can just climb up under the Starship and check it out instead of having to climb into the vehicle's main propellant tanks and bring all their work equipment with them.

>>10993340
IN A FIELD
>>10993429
More 2nd stage long-coast missions to prove that they won't have the kerosene freeze? I dunno, gov shit

>>10993441
god dammit Mars is so fucking cool when they don't edit out all the mist and vapor and clouds and shit
I wanna blast my load on Mars

>>10993527
I didn't like it

>>10993578
>it hasn't even been a year yet
w a r p s p e e d

>giant concrete O'Neill cylinders
Which have no tension strength and would have been blown apart in space from the combination of rotating and containing atmosphere
me piss

>>10993661
you're finally awake

>>10992924
are there any "Thunderf00t BTFO/busted" to hit any of the 871k subscribers over the head with?

>>10993798
>gentle splashdown in the ocean for easy reuse
impossible, the act of touching ocean water alone fucks shit up, hours of wave action make it worse. Just redesign it (the first stage) to be bigger, get rid of the retard spike and add more engines, and use it so that it does a return to launch site landing on land, propulsively. Use the 2nd stage like SpaceX is planning to do Starship. Done, your next-ass now functions.

>>10993642
this whole bingo board is basically just the /sci/ portfolio

>>10994476
that sort of video are completely insufferable 100% of the time and have never convinced anybody of anything

>>10993441
>Arabia Terra
When Elon gets there, he needs to remove all dirty names.

>>10993913
bruh
>>10993919
>headers in the nose
free column pressure at the engines
I assume in later versions other hardware at the front will mean changes to the placement of this heavy stuff, maybe

>>10993947
Man, I'm happy about the info he gets, but fuck that guy

>>10993441
Why are there ares that are blacky?

>>10993972
>added gimbal mount
nice
>small welded rectangular patch near bottom of nozzle
what did they mean by this

>>10994050
Would not lift off, weighs too much. Actually the blame for the terrible TWR comes from the absurdly scaled up Booster in the middle of those N1s. Rockets only scale 1:1 if you make them WIDER, if you take a rocket and make it wider and taller, ie direct scaling, you increase the amount of weight each engine needs to carry. If you only scale sideways the weight is distributed among and equal number of engines, so it's fine.

>>10994088
I'm ready for 4 new space trains, how about you guys

>>10994151
One table sized spaceship per 500 km x 500 km square of area in LEO.

>>10993440

>>10994324
No advantage, working from the wrong end of the rocket equation,

>>10994441
Yeah, Elon said a while back, in response to someone asking if they were still doing high thrust gas-gas methalox RCS he said 'doing cold-gas methane for now because fast, gas-gas combustion RCS later maybe'. Personally I think it's good that they aren't relying on slightly more dicey technological development and are trying to make it work with simple hardware quickly, because they can always go back and improve more later, this isn't NASA after all.

>>10994484
what about content cop

>>10994532
gas-gas methalox RCS will keep their propulsion engineers happy, what a fun toy. Plus, it's fairly easy to test compared to raptors

>>10994537
Yeah, lower pressure, way simpler, biggest challenge is reliable ignition on very short time scales.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JOEh5ptHu8
LMAO Someone did something

>>10994476
Specifically for his spaceflight comments? Probably not. His level of pessimism would be very tiring to deal with. I mean, his argument as to why reuse may not be feasible is essentially "NASA couldn't do it, so SpaceX probably can't". That's just tough to argue against because his point has so many incorrect assumptions baked into it.

>>10994532
it's kind of funny you say that because NASA used cold gas rcs on Morpheus, which was also methalox...but yeah it's a good and easy to implement, which is why they used in back then too

>>10994541
it's just a blowtorch that needs to be turned on and off very rapidly, or a blowtorch that needs to throttle
pick one

second new raptor
you can it because of the white ring

>>10994543
Think i've heard him go of on a few tirades about Hypermeme and in general has a hate-boner for Ol' Musky, but i've never been able to suffer through more than a few min of youtube to actually look things over

>>10994550
What I mean is SpaceX can switch to gas-gas methalox thrusters later, but install methane cold-gas thrusters now in order to get the vehicle flying. If NASA had to concede to using a cold gas thruster for something it'd take them decades to develop and eventually install an upgraded gas-gas combustion system, if they even decided to do it at all.

>>10994517
FUD crowd is gonna fling shit for the entirety of the next year.
>muh night sky I've never once looked at in my life
>they're gonna ruin SCIENCE!
>I-I'm totally happy with my comcast internet, why do you ask?
>ackschually, you wouldn't know about this, but there's this thing with too many satellites and they're all going to collide and make space junk and it's gonna be exactly like the movie Gravity
>look at me, I'm being reasonable and responsible when talking about topics I have absolutely no handle on

>>10994569
So there's 2 of them there now? Seems that truck last night DID bring the raptors.

>>10994569
you accidentally a word

>>10994630
>>ackschually, you wouldn't know about this, but there's this thing with too many satellites and they're all going to collide and make space junk and it's gonna be exactly like the movie Gravity
>>look at me, I'm being reasonable and responsible when talking about topics I have absolutely no handle on

god this

Eric Ralph of Shillrati just shared with me that the 28th is confirmed for Elon’s presentation. Media invites were sent out several days ago, but are private which is why nobody has mentioned them.

>>10994648
slowpoke
nothing you said here is new
what a pointless post you made

>>10994520
Bullshit, I can get hundreds of Kerbals into orbit, and I launched a model rocket once.

>>10994630
That's when you reply with

>FCC approved cunt, eat shit

>>10994630

The funny thing is about all those thousands upon thousands of sattellites is that they are in very low LEO, meaning that should shit hit the fan, that they would deorbit in a couple of years and LEO would be clean again.

Its all the stuff that is above 500 kilometers that is the real problem and should be adressed and solved within this century.

>>10994705
Starlink is high enough for a dwell time measured in decades, it's Starlink 2.0 that's supposed to use atmosphere skimming orbits

>>10994722
no

more tubes being lifted

>>10994728
yes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_(satellite_constellation)
>initially placing approximately 1,600 in a 550-kilometer (340mi)-altitudeshell, subsequently placing approximately 2,800Ku-andKa-bandspectrum satellites at 1,150km (710mi) and approximately 7,500V-bandsatellites at 340km (210mi).

only the 340km satellites can be called VLEO and that's marginal

>>10994757
the 710 mile satellites are not part of the initial deployment

>>10994752
what the fuck are they doing? header tank feed lines?

>>10994763
yeah, must be. CH4 was scribbled on one of the tubes.

>>10994752
It's like, a series of tubes bro.

>>10994759
the 550km satellites fall into the "above 500 km that is the real problem" category in your original post, these comprise all current and planned launches

>>10993441
K I N O

I

N

O

>>10994784
2 year orbit decay

China just became the third nation ever to make three orbital launches in a row, without any other nation's orbital launches in between. (thanks to Japan's H-IIB pad fire delay)

>>10994765
>>10994763
>>10994752
Autogenous pressurization return lines, gasses going up not liquids going down

>>10994151
There's a guy at NASA with an Excel sheet keeping track of them all

>>10994802
>three orbital launches in a row
my mistake. FOUR orbital launches in a row:

31 KZ-1A KX-09
11 CZ-4B ZY-1 02D, BNU-1, Taurus-1
19 CZ-11 Zhuhai-1 etc.
22 CZ-3B 2xBeidou-3M

>>10994803
hmmmm

>>10993441
Well thats the most beautiful picture of Mars Ive ever seen

*spies on your transmissions with a >100m dish*

>>10994151
A monkey writes down all the satellite's coordinates/trajectory every minute and then uses chalk/white board paper to calculate the trajectories.

>>10994813
economic sigint, spooky
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3095/1

>>10994813
Are there any rules against parking satellites in front of someone elses satellites?

Like putting your own 100m dish right in front of the American 100m dish.

>>10993441
I want to go to Mars so bad bros.

>>10994817
>America sends up 10b dollar spy satellite
>Chinks send up a 10$ AliExpress satellite that folds out a square kilometre of mylar
>Parks it in front of burger satellite
>OH HERRO YES WE TESTING SATERRITE HERE SORRY FOR MUCH INCONVENIENCE WE HOPE YOU RIKE PRODUCT, SPESHURU DEARU WE SELL 1000 BURUKU BUY

>>10994784
>your original post
that other guy's original post, I'm just disagreeing with you
Starlink in 500 km decays in a reasonable time
>>10994803
that's what I thought at first, but then one pipe would stop at near the top of the methane tank and the other would go to the top of the other tank, but they seem to be the same height

>>10994853
Elon said in a tweet today that both tanks are going in the nosecone, therefore both autogenous pressurant lines need to go at least that high

>>10992924
>year 2060
>Emperor Musk lands on the surface of the earth for the first time in 20 years in a fusion-powered Falcon Infinity, his gleaming cybernetic form glistening beneath the sunlight as he steps out of the shining silver craft
>he silently storms past the startled throngs of dignitaries and reporters, and makes his way to a waiting Tesla Roadster Mk 4
>drives to a small, poorly kept hospice center
>the staff stare in shock as the 7 foot tall cyberchad barges past them
>he tears open the door to one of the dingy rooms
>a wizened figure, skeleton thin except, strangely, for his neck, looks up from his deathbed with cloudy eyes and gasps, face contorting in shock and rage
>y-y-you...what are you doing here...wait
>Musk produces a syringe and rams it into the man's thigh. Within seconds he is jolted by a violent fit, and suddenly the wrinkles melt from his skin like a dress shirt under an iron.
>No...you bastard! LET ME DIE! ISN'T IT ENOUGH THAT YOU WON? STOP THIS!
>Musk smiles
>Who's blown the fuck out now, motherfucker?

FASTER ELON FASTER!

THE SOONER I CAN GET OUT OF THIS FAG OF A SOLAR SYSTEM, THE BETTER!

>Super Heavy rocket will be much like Falcon 9, but the [star]Ship is a strange combination of Dragon, F9 & a skydiver.

>>10994960
Noo i want fins in the nosecone

>>10995108
soon
soon there will be fins everywhere

>>10994930
I totally forgot people drew the black hole as an anime girl.

So what do y'all'ses think of the meme of terraforming Venus with bacteria? The only downside is that the Venusian surface would be several meters thick of dead bacteria when you're done.

>>10994930
>that pic
give it up, your own faggotry will follow you everywhere no matter how far you go

>>10995149
It's retarded and venusfags are the cream of the crop of retards

>>10995149
Venus is for early CO2 harvesting to fill future space colonies with oxygen, not terraforming. Though once enough CO2 is extracted the temperature would start to drop.

Venus is for figuring out how to destructively extract resources on a planetary scale.

>>10995149
Nah fuck that, what's the easiest way to mass-transport CO2 from Venus to Mars?

>>10995161
I'm a lot more interested after the recent study that implied Venus was probably habitable before (pretty much literally) the gates of hell opened and spilled all the hell out. If you could magic away all the CO2, you'd be left with fairly earth-like conditions (according to that study, anyways). The spin is a problem but eh, polar cities.

>>10995177
Probably a bacteria to convert sulphuric acid and CO2 into biomass and oxygen. You're left with a ridiculous amount of oxygen (more than Venus, Mars and Earth combined could ever need) and a bunch of acidic vegemite.

>>10995177
Why the fuck do you want more CO2 on mars

>>10995188
He's not fully informed about the current makeup of Mars' atmospheric pressure.

0.6% 1atm
Right? Or is it... 0.06%
My memory is fuzzy.

Either way, it certainly can have enough CO2 if we just boom boom it, a little bit.

>>10995188
Not him but any major colonization of Mars will require some form of atmosphere to be created, either free-floating or in domes. Venus has a ton of atmosphere that it doesn't need, Mars has none, so obviously if you can move it from Venus to Mars it would be nice.
I think however you'd want to split the CO2 first, and dump the carbon back on the planet, so you can ship more oxygen to Mars.

>>10992848
>TWR nuclear rockets have been developed.
Like what? Like Timberwind or LANTR?

>>10995197
>major colonization
What does that mean? Colony of a billion people? Or a few million people? Or few thousands?

Few million/thousands can easily be done with domed cities + underground transit.

>>10995210
I mean starting from 50 years after first colonists I guess, once you get past the first 100k probably. It all depends on how much oxygen is available on Mars of course, but space colonies will definitely need oxygen brought in. Unless you can somehow conjure oxygen out of the rocks around you, it's easier to bring compressed oxygen to your rocks than the rocks to the oxygen.

>>10995225
Mars won't be transporting oxygen from earth. It will be produced from bacteria/algae/plants inside the domed cities.

>>10995232
The plants process oxygen from molecules that have oxygen, they don't produce oxygen atoms on their own. The point of transporting CO2 or pure oxygen would be to provide that oxygen into the environment. I guess in the case for Mars at least, there's enough oxygen bound up in the ground or whatever so it doesn't need to be brought in. However if it's not, it needs to be brought in.

>>10995225
>Unless you can somehow conjure oxygen out of the rocks around you
Iron oxide + energy => iron and oxygen
CO2 + energy => carbon and oxygen
carbon + iron + energy => steel
carbon + hydrogen => methane + energy
magic oxygen from rocks and co2 is literally the plan

>>10995243
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CAvgsZ2yQk

>>10995177
Build a wormhole on the surface of both planets, pressure will do the rest

>>10995243
Their going to use solid electrode electrolysis to split co2 into co and o2. after you establish a viable biosphere in a fuckhuge terrarium, that will take over a lot of the o2 generation and water recycling

>>10995197
Yeah but a near-100% oxygen atmosphere of any appreciable density would be a goddamn nightmare.

>>10995271
The o2 level would stabilize from relative lack of plants and or herbivores adapted to mars culling the plant population

>>10995271
I don't think a 0.2atm O2 atmosphere is technically toxic, though.

>>10995177
just make mars and venus collide in the same orbit as earth

>>10995311
ok Velikovsky

An oxygen atmosphere would rust or burn everything

>>10995347
if you had the same partial pressure of oxygen as earth but without buffer gasses would it be more reactive because it's pure oxygen or the same because the amount is the same

>>10995205
Timberwind is still IMO in the low TWR range, 30 is pretty poor for a 1g+1 bar engine, however the very first studies into NTPRs yielded DUMBO, an NTR which used corrugated fuel fins instead of fuel rods which allowed a much greater surface area for thermal transfer and thus allowed the rocket to achieve much higher fuel flow rates without losing much in the way of Isp. DUMBO was set aside and never again investigated because at the time machining couldn't produce the complicated fuel fin shapes. A newer version with spiraling fuel plates has been in development for a few years now, and there are currently a few reactors which use similar spiraling fuel plate/fin designs to generate very high neutron flux and high temperatures proving that the machining is now feasible. Such a rocket could provide TWRs approaching those of chemical rockets like the F1, making nuclear rockets viable for rapid transportation of very heavy payloads without sacrificing efficiency or even very efficient low size atmospheric first stages if any nation were willing to assume the risk of flying such an engine in an atmosphere.

>>10995384
Here's an illustration of the DUMBO fuel stack to further clarify what I mean when I say "corrugated" fuel.

>>10995384
And here's the spiraling fuel stack of the Tricarbide Grooved Ring NTR, both of these intended to as much as possible increase the liquid propellant's contact with the fuel to facilitate maximum thermal transfer. This allows the propellant to get as hot as it's possible to get and allows the reactor to potentially run hotter as it's ability to self-cool using propellant to dump it's heat is improved by the increased contact area.

>>10995149
>several meters thick of dead bacteria when you're done
the earth is covered in several meters of dead bacteria so at least it'll be familiar

>>10995416
How bad would it be if the hydrogen turbopump failed? Instant meltdown?

>>10995430
essentially

>>10995178
if you have the ability to get rid of a small moon's worth of CO2, you have the ability to spin the planet up

>>10995433
I would like to challenge /sfg/ to conceive of a worse idea than an atmospheric NTR first stage with solid boosters, because I can't think of one.
>Turbopump fails, fuel melts, your rocket briefly shits core all over the cape before the SRBs detonate and spread core all over florida
>SRB fails and we skip straight to that last part
>literally anything fuel system related fails on the pad and 39A becomes unusable for centuries, flame trench filled with corite
Also I just saw the ISS fly overhead while typing this, neat

>>10995370
Yes, way more, things like aluminum and stainless steel wire would be extremely flammable. Codyslab burned a stainless steel wire in a thin (~0.1ish?) pure oxygen atmosphere by accident.

>>10995430
Engine would stop but you wouldn't melt down because all nuclear rocket concepts that involve a solid or suspended core still have conventional nuclear reaction controls. Nuclear lightbulbs and gas core NTRs dump boron cermet pellets into the fissioning uranium gas to kill the reaction, and solid or liquid core reactors still employ control rods or drums. Since both DUMBO and TGCR are conventional solid core reactors and relatives of NERVA, I'd assume they use control drums, spinning rods with one side coated in Halfnium or Berylium and the other side coated with some Boron ceramic which act as either reflectors or moderators depending on what position they're in. In the moderating position control drums can drop the reactor significantly bellow the prompt criticality threshold and prevent a meltdown.

>>10995264
i think about this a lot too anon

>>10995442
You could have an open-cycle gas core NTR first stage where fissioning uranium vapor is injected along with a liquid propellant into a berylium or halfnium reflecting "combustion" chamber, substantial fission fragments are expelled as a component of the rocket's exhaust by design.

>>10995442
>atmospheric NTR first stage with solid boosters devoloped by communist China

>>10995455
>>10995459
An expendable first stage open cycle NTR, designed to be launched from a Chinese inland space poet and landing "eh, somewhere downrange". With SRBs.

>>10995430
IIRC the plan for these engines would be to have multiple redundant pumps running in parallel at a fraction of their max power, so that if one failed the others would pick up the slack almost instantly and prevent a meltdown.

>>10995463
Nuclear SRBs, saturate the conventional solid fuel and oxidizer mix with near-critical fission material and a moderator, make the combustion chamber SRB out of halfnium or berylium. It will turn your SRBs into very short lived but enormously powerful atomic fireworks.

>>10995442
Dioxygen Difluoride [FOOF], Dimethylmercury fueled liquid rockets.
>https://www.tor.com/2012/07/20/a-tall-tail/

>>10995475
so basically a dirty bomb?

>>10995451
remaining decay heat could result in catastrophic engine damage

>>10995509
Yes, but it flies for a while.

>NTR Rocket

Whats next, the MY WIFE'S SON Command Module?

>>10995563
Mandatory diversity and (((refugee))) quotas for mars colonies

>>10995563
It's Nuclear Thermal Rocket you absolutely obsessive mongoloid.

>>10995563
you need to be 18 to use this site

>>10995576
Cuck detected

>>10995730
You're the dummy who keeps trying to say that the initialism for Nuclear Thermal Rocket is a reference to cuckoldry in a thread about
FUCKING
SPACEFLIGHT.
Cuckoldry is apparently on your brain day and night. Stop projecting your guilt about your fantasies in a thread that has nothing to do with them.

>>10995732
NeToRare rocket

>>10995475
>failure mode is entire SRB going prompt critical
oh boy oh boy

>>10995743
literally nobody who isn't a weeb cuck would either know that or care

Elon Musk is such an obvious fake name. It's clearly an alias for the bull and this entire general is actually full of coded cuckspeak masquerading as science to expand into /sci/.
Admiring Elons "big rocket" and imagining it penetrating "the atmosphere" and "proving his superiority to old space" are clearly cuck fantasies of the bull fucking your non-existent gf.

Just don't reply

>>10995748
I do. This is 4chan faggot

>>10995760
What do you expect from 4chan where 0.99999999, 0/0 and -1/12 is still a thing

>>10995765
Congratulations, you played yourself.

>starship mk 1 to be assembled by wednesday
>3 raptors have been installed
wtf

"Bottom half of Starship at night. Top half with forward fins & header tanks probably stacks on Wednesday. Three Raptors already installed."

Raceway & flap hinge aero covers

>

>>10995783
Jesus christ they're going fast with this.

EVERYTHING IS CHROME IN THE FUTURE!

those sneaky bastards installed 3 raptors without anyone knowing?

chinese launched two beideou sats

I guess the large white building has been busy manufacturing stainless components. Wonder what else they're doing in there

>>10995791
>mad max fury road had it right
based

>>10995795
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGxa39_i9PY
How Adorbs.

>>10995791

>>10995801
>>10995804
>doesn’t recognize spongebob quote
absolutely pathetic

So uh, how big will NA be?

>>10995825
forgot pic.

new
>>10995832

>>10995833
whoever it is that’s doing this, stop. Page 5 means this thread has like 8hr of life left

Do you rocket nerds actually believe that even your idol does the impossible and builds this thing its going to get certified by the authorities for real spaceflight?

Please.

Building a rocket is the easiest part and this is clearly going beyond the norms of what rockets are supposed to be so expect a lot of additional paperwork. Hope you have the patience, and the money.

>>10995847
It's funny because we won't even have to wait months to laugh at this post. Weeks.

>>10995782
fucking fund it.
that webm btw

>>10995783
the coomer meme becomes reality with this image alone for me

>sick for 2 days
>fins already on and it its going full SCIFI

>>10995864
So when you're sick you don't have the time to browse SpaceX related sites, but at work you do?

>>10995748
>reddit

>>10995783
They‘re probably gonna put everything together, take a pretty shopped picture for the presentation, then tear it apart again and do the plumbing properly.
Just like last time.
Hopefully this time this won‘t cost them the nose of the ship.

>>10994630
As long as no government bans or prohibitively high insurances are involved I'm fine with /x/ going on a rampage.

>>10995795
Nice aesthetic exhaust.

>>10995836
Are we going to need a pastebin FAQ or something to keep faggots from starting threads before page 8? (like it'd help)

>>10995817
Isn't spongebob for 6 year olds and shit?
I just figured it got memed so often because I'm surrounded by people who are barely old enough to drink.

>>10993441
So cool. Time to fire up my A3 printer anons, pls contribute to my kickstarter to fund cost of ink cartridges

>>10993909
No. And I think you need to take a long hard look in the mirror anon

>>10995829
I fucking hate the L2 advertisements