/sci/ - Science & Math

Heh existed

>>10977149
>Not vaccinating is the same thing as murder aka violating the rights of the baby

>>10978800
You realize her "argument" could be used to justify not feeding or clothing the child? Don't tell her what to do with her property, right?

>>10978837
Children are property. Legally and in reality.

>>10977149
anitvaxxers argument is flawed. If the do not vaccinate, they do not only pose a risk to themselves but to everyone else, as they are a source of diseases.

>>10978837
The government does not have the authority to mandate that you inject your child with anything. Not vaccinating a child is irresponsible, but not criminal or abusive. Anti-vaxxers are generally hugely misinformed/scientifically illiterate, but that doesn't mean you get to make a bloated, authoritarian state even more bloated and authoritarian.
Besides, all these retards' kids dying of whooping cough or whatever is an ecological positive.

people on this board really think children should be forced to be injected with a virus developed by the government.

>>10978860
Vaccines were not developed by the government. Vaccines have been around for a couple hundred years now. Im >>10978859 btw

>>10977149
>What on earth makes someone think being an anti vaxer is a good idea?
Basic logic.

Also, there is no such thing as "anti-vaxer". They're called FREE vaxers.
I know the difference is hard to tell for someone whose cognitive processes are severely impaired by the ultra-vax religious faith, but it's never too late to learn.

>>10978853
I can't seriously tell if this post is satire or not

>>10977149
They are stupid people that are completely convinced of their own innate superiority, and yet are also resentful of anyone who demonstrates more intelligence than they do.

>>10977149
Just shoot ‘em or something

>>10978859
It is good to force vaccinations onto people.

>>10977149
Wft, your pic makes an entirely resonable point - she write that one shouldn't be forced to have stuff injected to ones body. She literally just write "please leave us alone, do what you want with your own body, I'm not offending anyone" and you somehow turn it into an argument that she's the crazy one?

There's an argument to be made that if 90 of people are vaccinated, then you don't have to because the chance of contraction is low - it doesn't have to be 100%, while injecting chemicals to your system is a potentially dangerious act. And now please don't misinterpret what I said. I didn't say "vaccines do X". I'm saying that there's a small chance that it could have effects due to our lack of knowledge and/or unbiased sources of information and so, given that it's not necessary everybody be vaccinated, it can be called into question if state forces should have the right to do something with your body that you don't consent to.

>>10980900
This. There is a point of diminishing returns. If someone doesn't want to get vaxed they shouldn't. That being said people reserve the right to judge them on that

>>10980846
Some people can't get vaxxed for legit reasons and have to rely on everyone else.

>>10980915
And so you have to vax an ENTIRE NATION just to protect a hadful isolated individuals that could be protected in countless other ways?

>>10980914
>If someone doesn't want to get vaxed they shouldn't.

If someone doesn’t want to get vaccinated, they should be forced to. If they don’t want their children vaccinated, they should be taken from them

>>10980915
What possible “legit reasons” exist?
Like that kid that lived his whole life in a bubble?

>>10978859
goodness gracious festive anon that's a nice post

>>10980934
No Shlomo. Not how it works

>>10980948
It should be. No legitimate reason exists to refuse vaccination unless you’re bubble kid.

>>10980954
No shlomo. Again that's not how society works

>>10980954
>No legitimate reason exists to refuse vaccination
Sorry, it doesn't work like that.
I don't need any reason to refuse a treatment;
if you want to force me to do something, *YOU* must give me legitimate reason to do so.

>>10980958
Wrong, that’s a lie. There are US states where vaccines are mandatory and there are countries where they’re mandatory.

Try again

>>10981000
>Sorry, it doesn't work like that.

It does, actually. The state has the power to mandate that vaccines be received under threat of criminal charges.

>>10980933
>protected in countless other ways
Such as?

So real talk here, about the antivaxx thing.

Am i the only one that feel like this fucking meme has sprung up in a forced way? Like... I dunno it feels artificial to me. Especially with all the media spotlight it gets continuously and all the high-media-profile people who are publicly antivaxx despite having personal medical proffesionals on retainer who ensure they live as long and healthily as possible.

I think it's Ad Hominem to set up people who protest or raise questions about vaccines up as uneducated morons in the eyes of public opinion. Like "conspiracy theorist" , you start talking about CIA testing biological agents on kids in Africa through vaccines or distributing LSD to unknowing american citizens you can allways compare them to people who think the lizard people run the show or that jews are aliens.

So, bear with me this is getting /x/'y... Let's put the scientific spin on this rant. What would you put into vaccines if you were running America and had convinced the general populace that anyone who thinks mandatory vaccines are bad is a total moron?

Innoculate your population against your own biological weapons? Enhance fertility through chemical/biochemical means? Weed out unwanted genetic traits by adding in engineered genospecific carcinogens that lower fertility or increase the rate of cancer in anyone with these genes? I think the motive would be constructive rather than destructive desu, but the ethical horror of it would force the initiative to fly beneath the radar.

On an unrelated note, can anyone here with expertise in the field tell me how hard/easy it would be to do a mass spectrometric analysis of a vaccine and identify foreign or unlabeled substance in the vaccine? Can these signatures be masked? How likely is it someone outside the industry would take the time to analyze a vaccine?

>>10977149
Have you seen the amount of shit they Pike into a baby's arm these days? It's enough to make any person sceptical of the methods used to decide what goes into these drug cocktails with thousands of chemicals in them.

>>10981065
>My dudes look at my appeal to personal incredulity fallacy

>>10981006
Somewhere in the world the state also has the power to forbid homosexuality or adultery under threat of criminal charges, that doesn't mean it should.

>>10981023
Dunno... basic hygiene, maybe?

>>10980900
Don't want to follow the rules of society? That's fine, go away and live somewhere else. Why should you reap all the benefits while not doing your part?

>>10977149
flatearthers are real.. it's kind of scary, I was in conversation with 5 people the other night, 4 of them believe the earth is flat, one of them thinks the moon is the size of a basketball...

>>10977149
>our body
It's not their body. It is a child's body.
>Look I'm not telling you not to feed your kid a healthy diet so why are you trying to prevent me from starving my own child?

>>10981041
>Am i the only one that feel like this fucking meme has sprung up in a forced way? Like... I dunno it feels artificial to me.
You got it absolutely right. The whole pro-vax vs anti-vax bullshit is exactly the same as the SJWs vs /pol/ one, think about it the similarities are absolutely stunning

>>10981110
no

>>10981118
>Forcibly mess with my child's body:
>"Well done!"

>Do NOT forcibly mess with my child's body:
>"Whoa! That's not your body! How dare you NOT to mess with it!?"

Vaxxer logic, everyone

You just want to tell others what to do, only this time you guise it as science. Like it or not you're just a creep.

>>10977149
the only ones the unvaccinated endanger are themselves

just let them, man
why the fuss

>>10980865
This, they will never realize any harm has been done to them unless they see it on TV or a boot is planted on their throat.

>>10977149
There's nothing wrong with not vaccinating we've entered an age with incredibly lax selective pressures and our over use of anti biotics and other medical innovations while amazing over generations simply lead to a dysgenic population with a decreased genetic fitness in the face of disease and I for one welcome people putting their bloodlines back up against selection

>>10981098
Dude, uncool. Requiring the 'immunocompromised' to wear something like a respirator to protect themselves from infection? That's a clear and gross violation of human rights. Everyone much comply with the herd immunity agenda for their safety, it is only ethical.

>>10981098
>Somewhere in the world the state also has the power to forbid homosexuality or adultery under threat of criminal charges, that doesn't mean it should.

Thanks for admitting the disagreement is a moral one. Nothing more can be said as moral assertions are unproveable

>>10981200
>Wipe your ass

>REEEEEE DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO

>>10981220
Wearing protective equipment outside is no guarantee, and diseases like measles with ridiculously high rates of transmission are susceptible to nosocomial outbreaks that particualrly affect people who spend long periods of time in the hospital, which tends to include people with weak immune systems. You agree the unvaccinated need separate health facilities at their own expense so we can protect everybody's human rights, correct?

>>10981236
Agreed, the unvaccinated should not be admitted to the racket that is the medical system for anything other than extreme emergencies. Why? Because they don't any need barbaric, allopathic treatments, and should be seeing herbalists for general maladies, as it's been proven in numerous private studies that the unvaccinated are far more robust in general health.

>>10978800
You can already kill your children because, muh body.

>government mandates genital circumcision or both males and female babies
Everyone is in arms

>government mandates gay therapy for gays/lesbo
Everyone is in arm

>government mandates gays can't marry
>government mandates you can't have anal sex
>government mandates you can't fuck toy dolls


Whatever happened to mah body/family, mah rules? Government have no right to my body or my family.

Pro-vaxx is pro capitalist. If you use vaccines you support capitalist PHARMCO s

>>10981300
based and libertypilled

>>10981190
Yes. Children do not have agency so they can't make decisions. We typically defer to the parents, but the state intervenes when the parents are such idiots that it amounts to child abuse. If you refuse to feed your child because you think giving a kid food is "messing" with their body then the state will take your kid away. Deal with it or don't be a dummy

>>10981300
>Government mandates you have to feed your children
>Government mandates you have to go your children water
>Government mandates you have to give your children shelter
>Government mandates you have to give your children life-saving medical care
Yes.

>>10981320
>Yes. Children do not have agency so they can't make decisions.

Yes they do. That’s total bullshit devoid of any scientific backing

>>10981320
>Children do not have agency so they can't make decisions.
Then why did you feel the need to deflect the argument to the issue of "whose" body it is?
Glad you admitted your previous argument was wrong though.
However you still have to prove:
1) how refusing to inject a child with untested substances amounts to child abuse
2) how the judgement of the state is guaranteed to be better than that of the parents

>>10981343
>Dur i want my child to be vulnerable to diseases normal people stopped getting thirty years ago

>>10981303
I bet her bunny butthole is really snug and pink

>>10981343
>untested substances
They're tested by scientists who live their lives with the goal of developing vaccines to save lives

>how the judgement of the state is guaranteed to be better than that of the parents
The state trusts the judgement of the scientists who make the vaccines after preliminary trials have shown promise. Just look at the history of vaccines and the literal millions saved and you'll know why govt.s trust vaccines

>>10981300
It's not only your body. You endanger everyone by refusing to vaccinate.

>>10981337
This.
What's more funny about this retarded meme is that you could use the same exact argument to justify the diametral opposite behaviours it's usually intended to:
"I won't send my child to school even though he wants to because I'm an adult, and I know better that culture is bad for him."
"I'll now proceed to sexually violate my child. He might not want it, but that's irrelevant: he's too young and stupid to make decisions, so I'll make them for him!"
etc...

>>10981285
I'm glad we can agree, now please tell all the unvaccinated to go form an amish community or something where they can cure their measles pneumonia with herbal teas and healing crystals while the rest of us stay safe

>>10981360
>You endanger everyone by refusing to vaccinate.
So you're basically saying vaccines don't work.
Are you an anti-vaxxer?

>>10981110
>Don't want to follow the rules of society?
I'm not saying I don't. Whether the state can forcibly insert things in your body is up for democratic discourse.

The "you can go away response" here is like saying
>You don't want to eat meat? Why not go somewhere else then, if you don't want to follow the rules of society.
Not wanting to have the government have the given right to create orifice in everybodies body isn't "again the rules of society" like not putting your trash on the road is. Not yet anyway.

>>10977149
>exhausted
>says the pro-vaxxer

>>10981377
No thanks, we'll keep on keeping on until the biggest pseudoscience hoax in medicine is dispelled, the idea that one can prevent disease by inflaming the body with various poisons to allegedly "build up an immune response," which is what a healthy body already does naturally in the presence of infection, only requiring adequate nutrition.

>>10981233
That's not a counterargument.
Indeed, it shouldn't be state-controlled who wipes their ass. Apart from being close, there's enough social pressure to make it uncomfortbale not to wipe ones ass. You don't want to live in a world where, if you refuse to not pay the hasn't-wiped-his-ass fee, you'll get into dept and sured and court letters. Wiping your ass ethics aren't government/church/state business.

Apart from being gross**

>>10981233
That's not a counter argument.
Indeed, it shouldn't be state-controlled who wipes their asses.
Apart from being gross, there's enough social pressure to make it uncomfortbale not to wipe ones ass. You don't want to live in a world where, if you refuse to not pay the hasn't-wiped-their-ass fee, you get into dept and sued and receive court letters to seize your properties for not paying the charge. Wiping your ass ethics aren't violence-monopoly (government) business.

>>10981410
That’s nice. It should be state business whether or not you’re vaccinated.

>>10981041
I have had this feeling for a long time and it’s probably justified. I believe in vaccines and their medical value but this -anti-anti-vaxx meme feels incredibly manufactured. I believe this is for two reasons by two actors.
First it’s by the pharma industry trying to make governments buy a shitload of vaccines and the second anyone raises some doubt they will be ridiculed as a science denier.
The anti-vaxxers have a very important role in society by challenging the medical industry and questioning everything. If theese doubters are erased the number of vaccines a newborn has will go up every single year.
The second actor is the government trying to erase the concept of bodily autonomy. Imagine living in a world where you refuse to have your baby injected with a vaccine and then be labeled a child abuser. These vaccines are a medical procedure with known risks (albeit small) and may be of absolutely no benefit for a significant part of the population.

>>10981409
yeah no one ever died of infectious disease before vaccines

>>10981337

What he meant to say is that children, like niggers and other assorted shitskins, are so low on intelligence that they LITERALLY can't make well-informed and rational decisions.

When we force things on children, knowing that it will most likely be for the best, it is because we know that if children are left to their own devices, they would make FAR more stupid decisions - this is because they are low on intelligence.

This is also why we should be controling niggers and other assorted human-waste, they are dumb as all fuck.

>>10981371
This is the exact same reasoning we use except because most of us aren't retards we go with the smart decisions.
IE, even if a child wants to skip school, they aren't allowed to because we won't let them. IIRC, parents can't even let their child drop-out of school until age 16.
We also don't let children consent to sex. It doesn't matter if the child wants it, they still can't consent.
>>10981608
Imagine how mentally deranged somebody has to be in order to force their retarded opinions about race into every unrelated conversation.
Seek help anon.

>>10981371
>>10981678
And the reason is that being illiterate or getting pregnant at 13 are considered bad so we protect children from these dumb decisions

>>10981678
>retarded opinions about race
>supported by literal mountains of study
pick one, brainlet.
selection pressure and evolutionary biology is legit, dumbass.

>>10981041
>Am i the only one that feel like this fucking meme has sprung up in a forced way?
No. People are just dumb.

>>10981768

Question, do you believe the 'official' story on 9/11?

Because I can prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was the grandest conspiracy and ritual in history.

Most people look at the, very objective, evidence I lay out for them and reject it out of fear of such a world being the one they are in.

>>10981779
whatever story you have, it isn't true because I have the true story and a brainlet like you couldn't have connected all the dots properly

>>10981780

So that is a, "I've already made up my mind that someone I've never met could not possibly know something I don't."

Kneejerk confirmation bias.

>>10981782
Alright, hit me then Mr. Private Eye

what's the deal with all the schizos

>>10981678
>You can’t consent because I say you can’t

???

Very science

>>10977149
Sadly, the pro-disease movement is real, and has some influence.

>>10981785

So my favorite starting point is the 'Project for a New American Century'. This was a think tank that included Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfield, and some 8 other members of George Bush's cabinet. The paper was published shortly before 9/11 and called out for a policy of increased military spending and regime change in the middle east.

It said such policies could not be put into place without some 'catalyzing event like a new pearl harbor'.

>>10981785
Then you can see the war in Afghanistan was clearly about securing the CIA's drug trafficking. If you doubt the CIA traffics drugs, then look back at the Iran Contra affair and the Nicuraguan drug smuggling. Oh, by the way, Bush Sr. was VP during that time, and director of the CIA prior to that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan

"In July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, collaborating with the UN to eradicate heroin production in Afghanistan, declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. The Taliban enforced a ban on poppy farming via threats, forced eradication, and public punishment of transgressors. The result was a 99% reduction in the area of opium poppy farming in Taliban-controlled areas, roughly three quarters of the world's supply of heroin at the time.[19] The ban was effective only briefly due to the deposition of the Taliban in 2002."

Having fun yet? This is just my opening salvo.

>>10978859
>The government does not have the authority to mandate that you inject your child with anything.

Maybe you mean "should not." In actuality, of course, depending on the Constitution defining powers of the government in question, they may in fact have such authority.

>Not vaccinating a child is irresponsible, but not criminal or abusive.

It is abusive. Depending on the laws in place (laws vary by jurisdiction, many folks who post on 4chan(nel) seem to struggle with this concept) it may also be illegal.

>Anti-vaxxers are generally hugely misinformed/scientifically illiterate,

We agree on something.

>but that doesn't mean you get to make a bloated, authoritarian state even more bloated and authoritarian.

That is a political argument, and so getting into being off topic on /sci/. But note that the same government often can and does require you to feed your child, provide safety equipment for your child when in the car, not leave your child alone for prolonged periods. All of these are pretty common, and in all those case which few people object to, you are only risking your child's life -- you are not putting other people who cannot be vaccinated or whose vaccine did not "take" at risk.

>Besides, all these retards' kids dying of whooping cough or whatever is an ecological positive.

Yeah, edginess is not really an argument.

>>10980865
Many of them are decent people who have been misled by charlatans pushing bogus studies, and idiot celebrities who are profoundly ignorant both about the subject and the damage they are doing.

>>10981822

Why is the flu vaccine so pushed when it is so hugely ineffective?

Why should I trust companies legally protected from any liability of failures of their product?

Why is western medicine so poor at improving peoples' health?

>>10980914
>That being said people reserve the right to judge them on that

More than that, I'd reserve the right to tell them to get the fuck out and take their reservoir of infectious diseases with them.

Dunno if anybody here is familiar with "Coventry" in Heinlein's fictional future history. We need something like that for the pro-diseasers.

>>10981823
>Hello, What is projection?

>>10980937
Some people have compromised immune systems. Some have allergies. Some are to young for some vaccinations. And for some number of people, vaccines do not "take."

Who knows, you might even be one of those last and never know it.

Good thing for you your neighbors are vaccinated, too, to reduce the chances of preventable diseases being able to maintain a reservoir in the population you mix and mingle with, and so reduce the chances of you catching something jolly like smallpox or polio, huh?

Of course, if morons who are misled by pro-disease huxters cause too many of their offspring to not be vaccinated, you may be fucked over.

>>10981805
>>10981815
Good, you've followed the path of breadcrumbs that they've neatly laid out for you. I'm impressed.
However, you've followed the path of breadcrumbs they neatly laid out for you and never questioned why it all seemed to line up so easily.
Hint, the CIA is not the hypercompetent organization you make it out to be.

>>10980958
Why the racism? It makes you look cool over on /pol/, but here it just confirms you are retarded or underage B&.

And yes, that IS how society works. We have all sorts of laws that require you to take reasonable precautions for the health and safety of children, such as child restraint laws for cars, or life jacket laws when you take your kid in a boat. We have all sorts of laws that limit what you can do that puts other people at risk, such as speed limits and building codes.

You may not like any of those, but they all exist, that IS how society works.

>>10981839
All right, so we are in agreement that the ultimately some ruling power planned 9/11, decades in advance, to carry out what is perhaps the most impressive ritual in history.

So where do you think the next layer is?

I've showed you two of my cards, show me 1 of yours.

>>10981839
>haha I am the superior and smarter man, I have info you wouldn't even begin to think of. I can't share it of course, but how misinformed you are

>>10981065
You are going to be shocked, maybe sit down.

Did you know that all baby formulas and all baby foods are 100% made of chemicals????

/sci/ may be the wrong board to try that nonsense.

>>10981825
>it is so hugely ineffective
[citation needed]

>>10981210
See, either you are trolling or you have not read one article (or this thread) about this issue and are profoundly ignorant.

Wonder which it is?

>>10981216
I wonder if you would be as happy about it when it happens to you and yours? It is easy to be edgy tough guy on an anonymous Balizean basket-weaving forum.

>>10981285
>Agreed, the unvaccinated should not be admitted to the racket that is the medical system for anything other than extreme emergencies.

Nope, you don't get to opt back in when you fuck yourself over badly enough. You are still a risk to other innocent people.

>>10981853
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

>In recent years, flu vaccines have reduced the risk of flu-associated hospitalizations among adults on average by about 40%.

40% effectiveness is not sound medicine.

>>10981846
Decades? No, it wasn't decades in advance, it was at most 5 years in advance. Wasn't a ritual, purely pragmatic. The US government had something planned other than 9/11 but the arabs provided them with an out. This is why Bush was so shellshocked when he got told and was in that kindergarten, it was genuine shock (unforseen circumstances) and relief (I won't be responsible for the deaths of americans)

>>10981847
ofc I don't want to get disappeared

>>10981853
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20190214/flu-shot-much-more-effective-this-year-cdc-says#1

>The 2017-2018 flu shot offered just 25 percent effectiveness against the predominant strain of flu that season

>>10981865
So what about every other year?

>>10981371
>"I won't send my child to school even though he wants to because I'm an adult, and I know better that culture is bad for him."
>"I'll now proceed to sexually violate my child. He might not want it, but that's irrelevant: he's too young and stupid to make decisions, so I'll make them for him!"

So if I said either of those things, you'd expect the community/society to step in and protect the kids, right? It is exactly the same when morons want to make sure their children are susceptible to preventable diseases, with the added point that by helping disease organism keep a reservoir in the population ,they endanger others as well.

>>10981382
Are you a new troll-or-totally-ignorant-of-the-debate guy, or the same old one?

>>10981863
>Decades? No, it wasn't decades in advance

The year the towers started to be built was the same year 9-1-1 was first made the emergency number.

>ofc I don't want to get disappeared

Fearing death prevents you from truly living

>>10981779
I'd tell you to gtfo back to /pol/ or /x/ (depending on what flavor of retard you are), but actually please stay here -- you are not doing the cause of the pro-disease crowd here any good.

>>10981871
yeah but you got it backwards. 9/11 was meant to be November 9th, not September 11th. The arabs chose that date independently and to match the american date formatting (month/day) instead of the international one (day/month) the Americans were using to plan their big let's-go-to-war event

>>10981825
>Why is western medicine so poor at improving peoples' health?

Dunno, let's go ask some polio victims. Or smallpox victims. Let me know when you find some.

>>10981829
Not sure what you are trying to say here.

>>10981856
Any amount of bodies is better than extinction

>>10981914
See? Told you it was easy.

>>10981861
It is, lol. Sound medicine is when the benefits outweigh the costs on average.

>>10981371
If we don't inoculate our children with sperm, how will they be immune to it later in life?

>>10977149
So, we can't cut off dick skin without permission but we can abort and inject? Why can't people just make their own decisions?

>>10981354
>Just look at the history of vaccines and the literal millions saved
Meanwhile, in our timeline...

>>10981870
You didn't answer my question, antivaxxer.
Why are you saying that vaccines don't work?

>>10977149
I know right?!?
Haha people are so stupid! Don't they know we'd still die by bubonic plague if it weren't for vacc...
Oh, wait...

>>10981868
>they endanger others as well.
Oh great we have another ignorant here who thinks vaccines don't work!
What's up with all these anti-vaxxers in this thread!?

>>10981768
>have you considered that the anti vaccination propaganda could be an attempt by the Russians or the Chinese to weaken the health of the [western] population?
Real talk, how common are antivaxxers in Russia and China?

>>10977149
>anti-vax
> flat earthers real too?!
>abortions
Why are redditors so obsessed with these?

>>10982234
>reee let me violate human rights if I want

>>10980869
define good

>>10978859
The government has to intervene when people start killing each other, whether it be actively or passively.

>>10982528
>death rate and not incidence rate every single time
Gee it's almost like anti-vaxxers are trying to hide something.

>>10978800
Here's the thing a large number of of people suddenly getting polio or some shit means even people with the vaccine get infected due to them being overwelmed.
Also in most countries your rights end when you bring danger to your community. That's also why you cant just build a nuclear reactor in your backyard.(yet)
To any /k/ people here this doesnt mean your guns since majority of mass shootings happen with illegal guns from mexico.

>>10982549

Troll more gently, bro.

>>10977149
they never saw a true sick kid.
they never saw a kid dying to a terrible viruz or bacteria.
back in the day before modern medicine a little cut in your skin could kill you with a ugly infection.

people today are living the best time ever , we dont have world wars anymore, you can have basic rights so you dont end as a slave, you can easy buy food on a supermarket.

thats why anti vax exist, they just dont know the true meaning of dying having no hope for a cure.

>>10981098
>State says homosexual marriage isn't real
>People complain about how terrible that is and that the state is corrupt

>State forces you to inject a substance that's questionable to some people because people are different and react differently to things put in their bodies
>Lauded as progressive and caring and can do no wrong

Hmmm. This is all pointing in a direction that I've seen before.

>>10983044
>State forces you to inject a substance that's questionable to some people because people are different and react differently to things put in their bodies

Your immune system is not magically different from anyone else’s.

>>10977149
Anti-vaxxers = flat Earth = climate deniers

>>10982730
Morally just.

>>10980846
Not all vaccines provide a complete immunity, but still protect people through herd immunity, i.e. any instance of the disease is very unlikely to spread.

>>10978800

In EU there's measles epidemy right fucking now because anti-vaxxer dumb-fucks and poor, war-torn Ukrainians were getting infected en-masse and now some people actually died from disease that was thought as no problem years before.

>>10982715
Thats a one sided scarecrow.

>>10983074
that's because Ukies are stupid.
In my country we purposefully spread measles and chickenpox in kindergardens so kids develop immunity.
I'm not injecting my kid with any stupid shit thank you.

>>10983046
So auto immune disorders are just imaginary then?

>>10983116
Those people would fucking die anyway so who cares?

>>10981825
>Why is the flu vaccine so pushed when it is so hugely ineffective?
It's only "pushed" for babies and old people because they may actually die from the flu. Besides, it's not "pushed" on anyone, you sensationalist fuck. They just recommend in the media that they take it and occasionally send people knocking on doors to ask if you want it for free. This is not "pushing" it.

>>10981861
>40% effectiveness is not sound medicine
So you would say no to a genie offering you to lower your chances of getting hit by a car by 40%.

>>10978859
Yeah, I know, right? If your kid is dying of a disease and needs medical treatment, you should be able to decide not to allow that treatment to occur. That's what being human is all about, huh?
Not vaccinating is exactly the same thing except preemptive.
Let me be honest with you. No one with a brain gives a shit about "bloated" government. People with brains know that this administration should protect them and their children. When Jimmy walks into school unvaccinated after rolling in the mud, somehow gets a dormant strain of measles, and passes it to every other kid in the school as he picks his nose, that endangers EVERY SINGLE KID who was unable to receive full vaccination due to health/allergy reasons.
If you're so adamant about less regulations on things like this, you should have no problem getting by without public services such as public schools where this can be a huge concern.

>>10980900
Oh, no one's forcing you to inject anything in your body. You can always move to South America.
Citizenship and residence are a contract.

>>10983122
Nice moving goalposts. Might want to keep those under control.

If you even mention the government i this matter you area nutjob.
Not everything revolves around your conspiracy theories

>>10983145
>So you would say no to a genie offering you to lower your chances of getting hit by a car by 40%.

If it also came with unknown possible consequences and involved letting someone I have no reason to trust inject me with something? Yes.

>They just recommend in the media that they take it and occasionally send people knocking on doors to ask if you want it for free. This is not "pushing" it.

Mormons coming to your door aren't 'pushing' their religion.

Salespeople aren't 'pushing' their product.

Your cognitive dissonance is profound.

>>10983110
>In my country we purposefully spread measles and chickenpox in kindergardens so kids develop immunity.

Don't you know? You aren't supposed to have a natural immune system. Just let the witch-doctor scientists take care of everything for you.

>>10984028
I agree, a few thousand kids may die, but thats a sacrifice we should be willing to make.

>>10983819
No goalpost was moved.
Might want to try again

>>10984028
>Appeal to nature fallacy

“Natural” immunity is just worse.

>>10984021
>Mormons coming to your door aren't 'pushing' their religion.
Fucking spammers, rite?

>>10978849
In what society?

>>10978859
There is plenty of scientific literature that supports their position.

>>10982798
What's the difference between the two?

>>10978859
>The government does not have the authority to mandate that you inject your child with anything
Yes it does, the governments remit is a codified representation of the electorates will. Most people think that vaccines should be mandated ergo the government is given the right to enforce that idea.

>>10980900
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
Not vaccinating incurs a cost on society both directly and indirectly.

>>10981388
>Not wanting to have the government
Its literally exactly the same. Wearing a seatbelt is the law because the voters have decided the loss in personal liberty is worth the gain in public and societal health. The argument isnt should the government be doing this or is it allowed. The argument is over what the electorate thinks off the practice.

>>10988475
>Yes it does, the governments remit is a codified representation of the electorates will. Most people think that vaccines should be mandated ergo the government is given the right to enforce that idea.

Does not follow as the representatives can be voted on for literally any reason. If you wanted real representation you would have the people vote for it directly and not have to go through a bunch of groupthink stooges first.

>>10977149
There is no cure for the majority of diseases that vaccines allegedly protect against. The only real prevention is quarantining and literally prevention of the spread of said disease. America used to be good at this and even eliminated Polio completely from the population. That is until a group of retarded representatives (the good old government for those morons looking for someone to blame other than single mothers on the internet) came along and freely allowed disease riddled immigrants to freely run over the border to infect your children in public schools.

Honduran flu? Gee I wonder where that came from. Measles? Polio? Even fucking leprosy is even making a comeback because these retards keep letting diseased illegal aliens over the border with no thought or care. Why? Because that's what the vaccines they're supporting you to get are for of course, even though its basically completely useless against them. What's even more sad is that some of them actually make you weaker against disease because your body does not adapt itself to making immunities to combat even the most basic diseases such as the common cold. That is the premise behind the push of getting your kid to get them you see, because the vaccinated kids are already weak and can't actually handle contracting the disease.

>>10988420
[citation needed]

>>10982798
>death rate and not incidence rate every single time
Yes, exacly: death rate.
What's your problem with it?

>>10983035
>they never saw a true sick kid.
>they never saw a kid dying to a terrible viruz or bacteria.
Thanks for admitting that vaccine worship is fundamentally based on appeal to emotion rather than reason

>>10988955
Here's an appeal to reason. We should let anti-vaxxers kill their children because they're fucking retards and intelligence is genetic therefore their children would be fucking retards. And nobody wants a society composed of retards except fucking retards and fucking retards are self-destructive retards and should be sterilized to protect non-retards.
t. enlightened by my own intelligence

>>10983074
>In EU there's measles epidemy right fucking now because anti-vaxxer
Source?

>>10983154
>Not vaccinating is exactly the same thing except preemptive.
So, it's NOT the same thing.

>When Jimmy walks into school unvaccinated after rolling in the mud
Oh yeah because properly vaccined kids instead are always 100% safe "after rolling in the mud", amirite?

vaccination good
vaccination maybe be spaced out a little more better give infant more time body adapt to vaccine one at time
but vaccination make baby not die
baby die bad because baby cost money to make
money cost time to make
and i don't have no time to waste

>>10977149
We should just set up concentration camps for anti vaxxers. There they can be sick all they want.

>>10982566
>be antivaxxer in China
>lose all my social credit
>get sick
>only allowed in the shit hospital
>die
>be antivaxxer in Russia
>FSB DRAVSTITYE!
>guy in door gets blown off with grenade launcher
>3 guys in hazmats with AKs clear house, then grab me and hold me down, injecting me with vaccine and government tracking device
>putin now knows when I sleep

>>10980900
>There's an argument to be made that if 90 of people are vaccinated, then you don't have to because the chance of contraction is low
Let's hope not everyone thinks the same, else herd immunity will quickly break apart

>>10981115

Do you live in America?

>>10978859
You forgot the part where they endanger everyone around them, because vaccines are only resistant against one strand, whereas these kids getting infected will turn into new strands.

>>10978859
>the government trying to prevent a polio pandemic is literally hitler
Stupid lolberts

Really makes you think

>>10990921
Think about what? This graph isn't titled and the axes aren't labeled. I could assume I knew what this graph was showing, but that would be wrong to do.

>>10990941
Autism in kids

>>10990950
How do you know it's caused by vaccination? Why is it the only factor you idiots look at? And supposing vaccines even did cause autism, it's better to live with autism than polio.

>>10990969

While we are at it, lets ban unhealthy food and force people to lose weight. Any parent who does not force a specific diet onto their kids is abusing them, right?

>>10983154

>Dude, people secretly LOVE the overreaching and bloated regimes interfering with their private lives for the greater good!

I'm not an antivax retard but this is a bootlicking argument. Giving the (((government))) additional power is a necessary evil at best.

>>10978859
>Not vaccinating a child is irresponsible, but not criminal or abusive
Except for the part where non vaxxed kids become disease vectors and put other people in danger

>>10980900
You think it is a perdonal vhoice of freedom, but willingly becoming a vector of disease does cause harm to the immunocompromised who depend on the cover safety of a mostly vaccinated society. Your "personal freedom" in this case, comes at the risk of the well being of others.

>>10981041
>Artificial
>Ignores the sudden rise in epidemic break outs of disases not seen in decades
So you decide to ignore reality and instead took a swipe at your tin foil hat. Fuck off.