/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10942631
>JWST
There's gonna be a Hubble-type error and there won't be anyone around for a million miles to fix the error.

Upcoming Events
>Sept 6
indian rover arrives on the moon
soyuz departs the iss

>Sept 10
japanese htv cargo ship launches to iss

>>10942681
>indian rover arrives on the moon

>>10942631
What went wrong with the 150m hop anyway?

>>10942692
We told you 2020 and we meant 2020. Get ready to please your new Indian employers.

>>10942695
Don‘t think we‘ll ever know. Can‘t be too serious because Elon was still talking about orbital hops in October.

>>10942654
Starship can service Webb

>>10942692
>>10942681
For fucks sake. How is space news so fucking hard to follow. They must have already launched and all, yea?, and I am only now hearing about this.

Britfag here. I want to go on holiday to America. See some space history. The US Space and Rocket Center and Kennedy are a given but these are very faraway.

Where else should I go (Boca Chica probably) and I take it I would have to fly? Is state to state flying afforable.

>>10942881
>And the rocket's red glare

WHAT IS THIS SHIT! TIME TO DELET DIS! >:D

LMAO IS THIS REAL? I HOPE MOD DOESNT DELETE IT!

The anonymous uploader is banned and the post will be removed quickly! Pls reply before removal!

>>10942884
>>10942890
>>10942892
Shut the fuck up, samefag

Nothing interesting until sept presentation besides possible unofficial pics of nearly complete rocketships.

>>10942797
webb can't be serviced like the hubble. Its dead if its dead.

>>10942881
Visit JSC Houston, forget Boca Chica, there's nothing to see other than going down a road to a beach with a lot of fenced in shit. The few good views are already well covered with photography. I think there's also a visitor center in MSFC Huntsville.
And flying is really only affordable when you do round trips. One-way flights will have you paying through the nose.

>>10943023
Also Hubble had a perfect error. The mirror was precisely mis-ground. That made it possible to correct for. If JWST fails it'll be like Skylab, something will fail to unfold.

Why isn't f9 grid fins shiney
Me want shiney grid fins

>>10943033
Thanks.

So I should just drive? I gather there's very little public transport in the US.

>>10943066
driving across the US is like driving from the Ukraine to Denmark

>>10943057
What you guys think about stainless steel gridfins?

>>10942695
nothing important.

>>10942797
No, JWST is unserviceable because no vehicle can get close to it without fouling the mirror with contamination from its maneuvering thrusters.
Once deployed it's completely unapproachable. Hubble had a shutter it could close to protect the mirror if it was deemed necessary, but it also had its mirror enclosed in a big tube, which is really what allowed servicing as well as operation in LEO. JWST on the other hand has an entirely naked primary and secondary mirror assembly.
Honestly JWST is such a stupid design it's unbelievable. That's just what you get when you let scientists and engineers design something with no oversight from normals who understand what is practical matters more than what is 'cool'.

>>10943066
I don't know how well you're going to handle driving on the wrong side of the road for hours at a time. Note that driving just across Texas will probably take at least 16 hours, and that's with the 70MPH (110KPH) speed limit, states on the east and west coast will probably not have speed limits as high.
This ain't the M1, driving long distances in the US is an endurance thing. But at least you'll realize why we don't have "good" mass transit, everything is too spread out. In Texas, the only decent light rail is in Dallas, and you still have to make an effort to be near it.
And long distance trains fail it because freight is king of the rails here.

Just stick with big cities, and fly between them. Don't try to drive further than 50-100 miles away, even if driving on the right side isn't a problem for you.

>>10942881
uh i think their rocket has a fuel leak

>>10943057
shiny doesn't offer enough benefit to offset the cost of polishing.

>>10943094
Yea ok. Thanks again. Early days. Will probably be late next year.

>>10943101
I want to polish one for free

>>10943095
Its urine leak

>>10943033
20KM sub orbital Mk1 will be from Boca Chica in Oct(prob Nov).

>>10942881
Make sure to time it properly, give yourself plenty of breather room in case of launch delays. I'd say a week or two atleast.

>>10943155
If you're not there on the exact day it takes off, you're fucked. Rocket launches are scrubbed all the time, and that's when they aren't experimental prototypes. If you can't wait an extra day, or two, or ten, or thirty, you might as well not have come. Look at how long it took for us to see just TWO hops.
I live only like three hours drive away, and I won't even try. I'm waiting until launches get more regular.

>>10943166
There's historical flights and there's regular flights. If people want historical flights, then that will take some patience/timing. No one wants to watch a toyota car drive down teh street today. But back when Ford put their first car, it was the talk of the world.

Although F9 landings are exiting, its not as exciting as the first few. Its now become a regular behavior that it has lost some of the "magic"

>>10943184
Right, and someone coming all the way from the UK on vacation had better be prepared to live there for two months if they want to see it. We don't even have a real launch date yet.
So tell us all when you're going out there.

>>10943191
>Right, and someone coming all the way from the UK on vacation had better be prepared to live there for two months if they want to see it.
Thats the point of the post. They need to plan ahead and make breather room for schedule changes if they want historic launches.

a look inside LandSpace
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3787/1

>>10943336
Literally everything is copied

>>10943466
I thought you were joking. LandSpace's TQ-12 on the left, SpaceX's Merlin 1D on the right.

To be fair though, the TQ-12 uses methalox instead of kerolox, but these two look very similar.

>>10942881
Air and Space Museum in DC< and the Annex out by Dulles, are great for getting up close with hardware.

The last three unused Saturn Vs are on display at Canaveral, Houston and Huntsville.

>>10943466
China numba 1 nigger
I hope they will make space flight so cheap that we all will have enough to visit space once before we die.

>>10943066
Driving will waste most of your trip. Set a budget, set priorities, and fly where you need to go more than a hundred miles or so.

If you have not done so, post over on /trv/, they are still pretty helpful, disregard a couple of trolls. They are slow though, so don't abandon your thread if no answer comes for a day or two.

>>10943490
>board on rocket
>read "made in china"

>>10943495
Literally everything around me and on me is made in chnia.
Works for me

>>10943495
Everything today is "designed in nn, made in china" or something like that.

>>10943495
At least we don't have to worry about the US moving its space industry to China for cheaper products considering how much the government dislikes cheaper spaceflight from even American companies.

>>10943491
yea I just want to go to the museums. See the Shuttle and Saturn V etc.

I watch all the launches I can I know all about the scrubs. Sucks would really love to be there one day but it's not feasibly ofcourse. Hopefully when super reusables get big and reliable it'll be guaranteed to see one.

>>10943091
Would you prefer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpdNFqjfx9I

>>10943483
>Air and Space Museum
Love this pic Musk once tweeted

>>10942713
>>10942713

>>10943483
Is Huntsville the best one all things considered?

>>10943481
>non-reusable methalox gas generator
...why?

>>10943481
The physics dictates the shape of a gas generator rocket engine.

>>10943501
not the good highly technological concepts

china is good at mass producing and automating humans but does not instill free thinking and imagination needed for technological innovation

if 1/100 china launches ended with explosion theyd count that as a victory

it should be complete

>>10943693
>instill free thinking and imagination needed for technological innovation
I wish we still had Bell Labs the way it was, and I'm not even American

>>10943669
It's the ratio of available schematics for non-reusable vs reusable.

>>10943693
>if 1/100 china launches ended with explosion theyd count that as a victory
At least the Chinese recognize that failures happen and aren't damning. In the US, if a rocket explodes during testing, then suddenly there's calls to end the whole program.

>>10943669
I guess commonality across different future engines

>>10943669
chinese hackers still don't have full access to spacex servers

>>10943711
But why adapt Merlin to methalox and then not take advantage of the reduced fuel prices and coking? Why not just copy Merlin as keralox?

>>10943561
Sadly, I cant say -- it is the one of the three I have never been to. But my sense is that, of the three, it is the one with the least other things to do in the area, and the furthest from a major hub airport, which might make it more expensive. So check that.

As your timing firms up, though, look at launch schedules at Canaveral.

>>10943712
Contractors benefit because sweet dev money, media benefits because circus, and politicians benefit because they "fix" things.
The system has worked fine so far and everyone wins, I guess?

>>10943536
Why? It's fucking stupid.

Oh shit, wait, I get the joke now. I was a bit slow on the uptake there, and thought he was hating on one of the best museums that there is.

Never mind, disregard this post, I suck cocks.

>>10943721
They are probably interested in gaining experience working with methane.

>>10942631
You know, now that hopper did its thing, there's not much to talk about.

>>10943758
Or maybe you want to talk about ESA crying for no reason.
Get used to it, because it's the future, and they'll come under gobernment scrutiny when SpaceX actually launches Starship.
ESA, has about 2/3rd NASA's budget, but can't even a man into space, ever.

>>10943758
I have stuff to share once I get more parts for my rocket engine.

>>10943758
It's a lull before SpaceX starts their bimonthly bus service to orbit and Blue Origin finally reveals literally anything

NSF forums seems to like the idea, so let's chew on it here. Starlink to Mars 2020? Falcon Heavy could easily throw a significant number of Starlink satellites to Mars. According to the NSF forum Starlink sats can probably just go to Mars on their own fuel from LEO if you're willing to burn forever. It would let Elon claim "first private Mars orbiter" next year, provide communications for Starship in 2022, and could be leased at a good price to NASA who are currently bandwidth limited on Mars.

>>10943822
Either that or the US uses the ESA and Starlink incident to crackdown on private space companies.

>>10943833
Literally nobody except Richard Shelby wants that.

>>10943758
Seeing if Hitler spares the Indian Lunar Lander should tide us over. Hopefully they’ll stream it.

>>10943833
Except there was no ESA incident, it was just a PR stunt.

>>10943831
Starlink to mars has always floated around it's just that we are nearing the point where all the things needed are available. Very useful.
Expect planetary protection hysteria and demands for new regulations.

>>10943839
You're wrong. Everyone in Europe dislikes American entrepreneurs who they perceive to be stepping on top of their traditions/institutions. Russians gov don't like it. Old Space in US don't want it because it may put them out of business. Old ISP in states don't want it. Old ISPs in other countries don't want it as they maybe out of business. Old media don't want it as they are connected to ISP. Old car companies don't like it as that has the potential to rejuvenate Tesla. Liberals don't like it because Musk don't like union and is red pilled. Conservatives don't like Musk who is trampling on decades of institutions.

So who likes it? Space enthusiasts and tech enthusiasts. That's it.

>>10943922
Those interest group is a small minority of overall individuals. The silent majority that's heard of what he's doing quietly approves.

>>10943929
Silent majority don't matter in the course of history. They rollover for whichever has the biggest voice.

>>10943931
Guess it's time to get loud, then.

>>10943922
>>10943929
>>10943931
AFAIK, Reddit seems to have turned on him as of last 2 years or so. Reddit is the biggest social media discussion site in the world at the moment.

>>10943922
>Conservatives don't like Musk who is trampling on decades of institutions.

also supporting renewables and against climate change

>>10943912
And a PR stunt can't be used to justify a crackdown on something... why?

>>10943950
Because it was quickly exposed as such, and everybosy in the industry knows whats what.

>>10943922
>Europe
Irrelevant
>Russia
Doubly irrelevant
>Old Space
ULA is willing to play ball with new space, only Boeing itself is pissy
>Old media
Ah yes I fondly remember when CNN won the election for Clinton, old media is very prestigious and people definitely listen to it
>Old car companies
Are we now trying to imply Ford is going to get into the anti-satellite lobbying business because I think we're approaching the point of silliness

Who likes it? Literally anyone with an interest in cheaper space access. Iridium, most factions within NASA, anyone tied to an ISP monopoly, the Space Force, BlueOrigin (backed by the lobbying weight of Amazon), etc. Even most of SpaceX's competitors are on their side here, because draconian space regulations will kill ALL of New Space, not just SpaceX.

If you pitch Amazon versus Ford in a lobbying battle, my money's on Bezos.

>>10943913
>Expect planetary protection hysteria and demands for new regulations.

This, but nobody will really have the power to enforce any regulations, there is no global law enforcement arm, much less an interplanetary one. Which is a shame, in one sense, since reasonable protection of pristine planetary environments should be maintained at least until we discover if there are an micro Ayyys there.

We've already seen the precursor to this, by the way, as more entities are capable of putting probes on the moon, and the US Congress moved to try and protect historic Apollo sites...

>>10943950
You have this weird idea that governments can just wave wands to make laws to fuck over specific companies, regardless of existing laws and public opinion. Do you live in China? Because that's the only place that's true.

>>10943940
It has been time for that for many years. If we'd gotten load back when the Apollo program got the ax, or back when the shuttle was being Proxmired into irrelevancy, where might we be today?

Frankly, we don;t fucking know how to get loud, and there aren't enough of us to get all that loud if we did.

>>10943960
Planetary protection and colonization are mutually exclusive goals. You literally cannot conduct any extensive human habitation, even for research purposes, without basically giving up on planetary protection. Given that Musk's on track for a 2024 manned Mars mission, the red mars faction is already lagging behind.

>>10943953
"Everybody in the industry" is not a part of the apparatus that makes the laws and regulations.

>>10943957
That was a well thought out and cogent argument, until you included "Space Force" as an influencer.

>>10943953
No one cares about what really happened, if the cord strikes people's heart, thats all it matters. Rationals be damned. They can easily concatenate a emotional bagged like "for future of mankind" or "space trash" argument and if left alone, it could kill SpaceX.

>>10943973
I think you vastly underestimate the military applications of Starship. Full reusability means they can buy and operate their own fleet, and modify individual Starships to suit their needs. China put up a shiny new spy satellite? Starship can steal it. China doing something shady on the far side of the moon? Starship can go investigate. Need a company of Marines halfway around the world in 30 minutes? Say no more. Mount SM-3 missiles and SPY-1 RADARs on a Starship and you have a fully commercial off the shelf missile defense platform in space. Because it's a Starship, you can stop treating launch vehicles as satellite carriers and start treating them as assets in their own right. The entire concept of "emergency launch capability", which is the welfare money ULA relies on, is obviated by a fleet of reusable vehicles serviced and operated by Space Force personnel.

>>10943963
You seem to think that the Governments can't impose regulations that cripple an industry or give advantage to a faction. Do you live in Utopia? Because that's the only place that's true.

An example of a possible regulation -- noise abatement and/or environmental laws that make landing reusable boosters less economical would be fairly easy to craft. They wouldn't mention any specific company, and would apply to everybody, and would only really hamstring one company. Anti-trust laws are a wonderful tool for hammering a leading company, subsidies targeted at rent seekers are a wonderful and proven way to favor one company over another.

Hell, if one of Musk's business can be kept afloat through government interference, why do you not believe that another could be harmed?

>>10943969
>You literally cannot conduct any extensive human habitation, even for research purposes, without basically giving up on planetary protection.

I absolutely agree.

But we live in an era where people lose their minds in politics, if we sleep on the possibility that "Keep Mars Green" or red or whatever legislation might not pass, we're taking a big risk.

But we're getting into politics now, sort f OT for /sci/ i guess...

>>10943758
There"s stuff to talk about but people are mostly interested in hopper and falcon launches. That said, yesterday and today have been slow news todays.

>>10943976
Except within hours literally everyone was laughing at the ESA and nobody except OneWeb (lmao) cared. It isn't some fucking "magic flute song" that will "inspire the masses to hate SpaceX" because of things they don't understand or care about. You can use your fluffy bullshit language all you want, but so can we; and our side has giant shiny rockets. Which do you think inspires the masses more? Empty rhetoric, or giant shiny comic book rockets?

>>10943986
>everything bad that could possibly happen if one party has absolute control of congress and was completely beholden to industries that are dieing out yet somehow completely ignores the financial titan that is Amazon, will happen
That's some of the most retarded defeatist logic I've ever seen on the internet. That's fucking blackpill doomer tier "woe is me" niggery.

>>10943984
Fair enough -- if Starship reaches the planned capabilities, it might bring Space Force closer to actually existing. My point was, since it does not exist yet, it is not really a player in supporting anything.

This just occurred, and I have not thoight about it at all, but reading your post makes me wonder if a finished Starship vehicle might be too important an asset to be allowed in civilian hands. I could see the military trying to get it nationalized or whatever they'd call it.

Does SpaceX have all of it's production sites and such in the US? That might turn out to have been a mistake.

wood scaffolding for the best rocket ever

>>10943992
You seem to think the masses pass laws and write regulations. This may be in error.

>>10943992
If you look at the news articles, its all being viewed in the initial fear mongering attitude. As I said, enthusiasts may call out shits, but for mass media and for general public or heck, special interest, this is a gold mine.

>>10943996
Better than bamboo, I guess...

>>10943995
>Does SpaceX have all of it's production sites and such in the US? That might turn out to have been a mistake.
It won't be a mistake, it will be a boon. There's an even greater chance of other nations trying to seize SpaceX facility if they become a threat to those nations. Within the US, once SpaceX becomes a huge asset, its going to be protected from external forces like ESA or EURO or China or Russia or anyone wanting the demise of SpaceX.

>>10943997
No, but you keep repeating over and over again that a certain subset of companies will succesfuly push for laws that hurt the economy while China surges ahead; and ignoring that equally large and powerful companies would strongly oppose those laws. That's mindless doomerism.

>>10943998
Sure, let's look at the news articles. If you search Google News for "spacex" you get two articles about the ESA debacle, both of which have been updated to include the ESA saying nothing wrong actually happened, a bunch of articles about the Falcon 9 static fire, and The Express going on about the SHOCKING THINGS humans will NEED TO SURVIVE on MARS!

Literally nobody outside the enthusiast community and some tech sites even heard about the ESA's overeager PR department.

shit looks good

>>10944003
This is a good point that's being overlooked in favor of fearmongering. Boeing has lobbyists, sure, but Boeing is still taking PR blows from the 737 MAX debacle and their handling of SLS. They're losing allies in Congress and haven't actually delivered. You can only go for so long as the worse, more expensive option before your lobbying finally reaches it's limit. SpaceX's biggest ally is probably the Congressional Budget Office.

>>10944010
Did they even experience hurricane force winds there?

>>10943066
Fly. Houston is thousands of km from the Cape, and those are both thousands of km from the Smithsonian.
If you're smart about your scheduling, plane tickets can be found for just over $100, but around $200 is more likely.

>>10943969
>colonization and planetary protection are exclusive
That is true and that is precisely why some care must be put into watching the political winds. It's really not that hard to ruin everything and there are parties that would benefit from keeping the status quo or going full pretend "environment"alism.

>>10944009
Journalist for Forbes broke the news. "SpaceX Declined To Move A Starlink Satellite At Risk Of Collision With A European Satellite" Verge/CNET/Engadget/USAToday/Guardian/Metro/RT/Nature/etc

You missed the last two days. It was all fear mongering. ESA's twitter plays different tune to what the ESA's head says later on as "nothing wrong happened."

The damage was already done.

>>10944018
>muh space environmentalists
Fortunately that is a harder argument to make for the Moon.

this should be built by the end of the month. huh

>>10944021
Anything can be pulled out of the ass. And the Moon is far more more iconic image than the red dot...

>>10944033
Though the Moon will also be in the plans of more hawkish political forces, and we know how the fight between that group and environmentalists tends to go.

>>10943996
Wood rockets when?

>>10944043
based manley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtxYP9fLMmk

>>10943943
And yet they're owned by Chinese investors. Chinese capital needs to be banned from this country.

>>10944009
>No, but you keep repeating over and over again that a certain subset of companies will succesfuly push for laws that hurt the economy

Oh fuck, my bad, that has never happened...

>>10944052
Not all Chinese capitals, but the ones with ties to the government/mainland needs to be stopped. Reddit has Tencent backing, which has government/mainland backing and really needs to be stopped due to influence of chicom in US social media sphere of influence.

>>10944014
I don't think so. Unless it doubles back, which they sometimes do (but this one seems to have started it's run north, so little chance of that) then Elon lives to fight another day.

>>10944009
>sorry we spread harmful disinformation it wasn't intentional here's a small clarification nobody who mattered will bother reading anyway ;)

>>10944061
The CCP has absolute dictatorial power over the economy and the companies operating within. All capital is intrinsically compromised. It's better safe than sorry.

>>10944021
I remember the bit in "The Man Who Sold The Moon" where Harriman sells a soft drink company exclusive rights to plaster their logo across the lunar surface -- not to use them, but to keep a rival company from getting them. The company was going to trumpet buying the rights and saving the moon from desecration, in a very green-sounding PR campaign.

>>10944043
Needs moar Stage Trees...

https://forum.cosmoquest.org/archive/index.php/t-151539.html

>>10944073
That's more like what happens with the companies that sell "stars" so you can name them. The sale has no meaning unless it can actually be enforced one way or the other.

>>10944025
Any header tanks in Mk 1? I remember seeing photos of them.

>>10944073
Are we now reduced to "I saw it in a movie once" to support ecofascist doomsday memes?

>>10943831
Of course Starlink won't be very useful around Mars, but if it's just "we have the delta-v, fuck it hit the button", that's shitposting on an interplanetary level, and I approve.

>>10943922
>You're wrong. Everyone in Europe dislikes Americans
ftfy
>>10943943
>Reddit is the biggest social cancer site in the world
ftfy

>>10943998
mass media? the starlink train has already fallen off the news cycle weeks ago, normiefags have completely forgotten about it by now, they're back to news about the hurricane and orange man bad and celebritards
>>10944019
>Journalist for Forbes
Normiefags don't read Forbes, at most it's "that finance magazine" to them, fuck that they're living paycheck to paycheck

>>10944195
>"The Man Who Sold The Moon"
>movie

>>10943831
completely pointless, interplanetary communication is way too hard for that
it wouldn't be even close to relevant until they get the optical backbone links working, and then you need a much larger optical telescope laser link to communicate with Earth
if you can get all of those things working then it's absolutely a great idea but until you do there's no reason

>>10943973
>The economic juggernaut that is the Department of Defense
>not an influencer

>>10943075
delightfully counterintuitive

>>10943095
better than leaking out on the way down and giving your whole crew pneumonia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo–Soyuz_Test_Project#Re-entry_and_aftermath

>>10944296
>completely pointless, building rockets is way too hard for that, you can't just use stainless steel in a field
memes aside couldn't they use an array of starlink satellites to synthesize a larger dish, since they're all software controlled phased arrays?

>>10944376
they'd only be on the right side of Mars less than half of the time but maybe that's possible

>>10943995
>This just occurred, and I have not thoight about it at all, but reading your post makes me wonder if a finished Starship vehicle might be too important an asset to be allowed in civilian hands.
America's first attempt at a navy was to have civilians buy and outfit their own warships. The more Starships flying under the American flag, the more of them you can draft in wartime.

>>10944380
Falcon Heavy could yeet an entire 60 satellite array of Starlinks to Mars. If it takes 10 of them to synthesize a dish, you could keep constant (solar opposition not withstanding) communication with six groups of 10.

>>10944388
I'm still not sure what you think you're going to do with them there. They'll be multiple light-minutes away from command & control, or even anyone on Earth who could talk to them.
If it's just to prove that their ion engines can get them there on a low-energy trajectory, that's cool.

>>10944432
NASA's communication to Mars is bandwidth limited. If there's a solution that involves throwing cheap mass produced communication satellites at the problem, and would also check the "first private mars orbiter" milestone, while giving SpaceX a platform for their own orbital reconnaissance of landing sites, communications with Starship during EDL, it's just a useful thing to have and relatively cheap to do (especially if they go to Mars on their own propulsion). It fits SpaceX's "faster cheaper jankier" method of development.

>>10943995
>it might bring Space Force closer to actually existing

Space Force already exists and doesn't require Space Shuttle door gunners to do so.

>>10944432
To play Quake with Martians with 4 to 24 minute latency.

Memes aside, could be great PR for SpaceX and their projects. Not to mention an important piece of infrastructure.

>>10943075
Twice as heavy as the titanium ones.

What's a good site to learn about the details of manned spacecraft and station modules? Im looking for something comprehensive.

>>10944501
http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/Rest_World/Rest.htm

>>10944501

http://www.astronautix.com/index.html

>>10942695
It -MAY- have had some engine trouble at the last few seconds, Tim Dodd and Scott Manley both point out the color/composition changes in flight.

The COPV that few off was most likely caused by a harder-then-expected landing. Its difficult to tell from all the dust, but the 3 crushcores on the bottom of the legs were all destroyed on impact, this didn't happen on the first 20m test.

>>10943534
yes, also throw that shit up on a Starship and while you're at it throw another nine extra to get some surveying done faster.

>>10944566
>It -MAY- have had some engine trouble at the last few seconds, Tim Dodd and Scott Manley both point out the color/composition changes in flight.

I just figured it was inconsistent combustion as the engine was throttling up and down during the descent.

>>10943669
>why
because methalox is a cheap, easy propellant combo to work with, gas generators are cheap, and they can always continue engine development until they get it reusable. SpaceX did that with Merlin, the only reason they could do Raptor reusable right away was from the lessons learned by Merlin development.

>>10943721
Why bother doing kerosene if they plan on switching to methalox later anyway?

>>10944195
No ,it was not in support of anything, just making conversation. Not everybody is here to argue about everything.

>>10944299
>DOD is unified behind wanting a new service branch.

But pending the election next year, this may all rapidly become moot.

>>10944383
Sure, the right of angary also applies, though -- we better not let them land anyplace else.

And of course, if you nationalize them you own them all.

>>10944449
>Space Force already exists

It does not.

The creations of a new service branch, Space Force or any other force, would require an act of Congress. Congress has not acted.

The President did announce "Space Command," which essentially moves back towards a unified command for US military assets, such as communication satellites, anti-satellite programs, etc. We had this sort of command back in the 80s, I think it was, but at the time it was decided that it made more economic sense to run that under the SAC infrastructure. It probably still would be, but the President has, correctly I think, viewed this as a way to move the ball forward towards creating a Space Force.

Please note I have not expressed an opinion on whether a Space Force is needed. or desirable. That's a topic for another board, not really science.

>>10944772
No one has clear idea what it is and SpaceX hasnt made any comments regarding that. We won't know for sure until they clarify the situation. However as we suspect it, they may already be working on a fix for this issue, if it is an issue.

>>10943996
Maybe its for dampening the vibration? Why?

>>10944820
>>10944841
The current status of the matter in the 2020 budget I think is that funding has been allocated for a Space Corps to be organized under the Air Force (headed by a four-star commandant just like how the Marines are organized under the Navy). It should be resolved within a few more months, but it looks like the argument has dropped from "should we add a branch?" to "how independent should this branch be?"

Expectations are that the Corps format is going to be the winner in the end, with a review sometime between 2028 and 2030 to decide whether to spin it out like the Army Air Corps was into the Air Force.

>>10944855
I could see the Space Corps ending up with a similar structure to the Marine Corps, but under the Air Force.

Just FYI, the real reason why SpaceForce was created was due to AirForce's reluctance to explore the Deep Space. AirForce SpaceCom primarily wants to limit itself to satellites currently. SpaceForce will expand that beyond earth.

>>10944874
More likely, there is a specific thing in mind:
Weapons emplacements on the fucking moon

>>10944888
Close not not quite. The actual moon resource is not weapon but helium-3, fusion fuel. Its not available on earth.

>>10945053
it's not available on the moon, either

The Moon is considered by many to be the ultimate high ground in the Earth-Moon system.

>>10945053
There are most likely already buried moon-to-earth missiles, and more to come. How else would you shoot down a manned geo-sync spy platform or three?

>>10945078
I meant to say that being the "high ground" is the reason why alot of people value the Moon for military purposes.

>>10945068
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3#Extraction_from_extraterrestrial_sources

Both China/India have already begun their investigations, US hasn't.

>>10945078

>>10945079
China has an anti geo sat rocket.

>>10945084
That might be interesting in 50 years or so when we A: get fusion working at all, and B: reach the second or third generation where the 3He temperatures can be reached. And even that may not happen if we find out that aneutronic fusion is better.
Until then, it's just a meme, and one of the easiest ways to identify space nutters. And also until then, we can get all that we need here on Earth.

>>10944888
>More likely, there is a specific thing in mind:Weapons emplacements on the fucking moon

A bit far away for that?

Where the FUCK is it?

>>10945098
>american-chinese war of 20XX
>both countries lose their space forces and are at a stalemate
>suddenly china activates its reserves they had hidden on/around/near the moon
>china wins

>>10945094
If we wait until China/India starts mining helium-3 from the moon, then it will be too late.

The first mover advantage is enormous, especially for the future of energy production. If you look back in human history, from the first time humans harnessed the power of fire to nuclear power, we can see that whoever welded those power and perfected the technology became the dominant power.

>>10945113
>>10945094
Also the whole reason SpaceForce is created is to get away from this type of closed minded stuff that was prevalent in AirForce SpaceCom, who only wanted to focus on the present and not on the future.

>>10945053
Water access near Earth in reduced gravity is a serious thing. Plus, it takes a few days to hit the moon and it's almost impossible to do so from Earth without a facility on the lunar poles seeing it.
Add on not only a layer of second strike capacity, but flight denial beyond cislunar space, and things get interesting.

>>10945098
>"But, Man," he protested, "we can throw rocks at Terra. We will."

>>10945113
By the time they can use it, their governments might have already collapsed. There's a first mover advantage, and there's wasting your effort on stuff that's literally useless for 50 years.
That's like trying to corner the market on monocrystalline silicon in 1897.

Business idea: NASA buys spacex

>>10945137
Starship painted orange, built in Alabama, must use SRBs, must cost at least $5 billion per launch, first launch 2045

>>10945134
>their governments might have already collapsed
I wouldn't bet on it. Everyone has been predicting China's collapse since the 90s. Its been 30 years and people are still saying "China will collapse tomorrow." Its pure delusion at this point.

>>10945137
Business idea: NASA buys 1 Starship launch for $200M.

Prptio: It won't happen. NASA heads will be rolling if that happens.

>>10945156
In the 1990's, the Chinese government wasn't warning its own populace to not invest in domestic real estate.

>>10945156
They also predicted that the USSR wouldn't collapse.

>>10945094
no, there's not enough of it on the moon to be economically viable, much less energy positive

>>10945102
100 billion km from us. Can JWST find the bastard, lads?

When is the presentation supposed to happen, mid september?

Post yfw Trump gets on the phone to the first negress kween on the moon in october 2024

>>10945185
The 28th, supposedly.

>>10945171
The moon is a great chemical fuel depot and initial manufacturing center beyond Earth. While there's a lot of hype over microgravity industry, doing things even in 1/6th g is far easier. At minimum, it reduces the weight of a lot of the equipment required for the same processes on Earth.

>>10944772
Possibly a deeeep throttle test. Or simply had to throttle the raptor past it's limits as hopper was light, was only allowed 30 tonnes of fuel for the test. We all know the falcon can't hover because of its thrust to weight ratio, that raptor would have needed to throttle to 30-40% or less to pull off that landing

>>10945209
Never mind the small matter of transporting that equipment or the product.

>>10945223
That's my point precisely, and why you would set up defenses around a facility containing such equipment.

>>10944061
>Kill reddit cancer by kicking out the chinese
This would be good

>>10945223
We're at the cusp of it truly being a "small matter". Rapidly reusable spacecraft capable of lunar missions for the price of fuel are on the near horizon.

>>10945173
JWST will never fly

>>10944061
All chinese capital is tied to the government.

>>10945209
Right now we just don't know how much of a problem lunar regolith is. From what we do know, it might wear away equipment too fast for anything to be worth bringing anything there.

>>10945209
>dude like stepping stones dude... moon bases n motherships n shit dude
READ
YOUR
ZUBRIN

>>10944855
>Yes, Air Force in space instead of gay Navy.
tfw Stargate was right

>>10944017
>plane tickets can be found for just over $100,
Does the USA not have budget airlines?
I can literally fly from London to Lanzarote (4 hours) for £23.99.

>>10945173
J
W
S
T
WILL
NEVER
FLY

>>10945949
There are budget airlines but they're nearly not as cheap as the ones in yurop. Amerifats don't fly short distances, they drive.

Is it actually likely that the final Starship will be launch from the sea like Sea Dragon?

>>10946082
No. It may launch from a platform at sea, but not actually launch from seawater itself.

>>10945209
>"The moon is a great chemical fuel depot..."
>Shelby cancels Artemis because the moon is a threat to SLS

>>10945159
NASA is labile enough to do it with the right push

>>10945053
10 parts per billion is about as available as none parts per billion. Lunar He-3 is a complete meme and will never happen.

>>10945113
The amount of energy wasted trying to refine 100 million kilograms of regolith for every kilogram of He-3 means that you'd already need way better energy sources than what we have on Earth in order to pull it off, and even then it'd be at a loss no matter what because the energy contained in every kilogram of He-3 is less than what it takes to refine those hundred million kilograms of regolith in the first place.

>>10945209
>The moon is a great chemical fuel depot and initial manufacturing center beyond Earth.
Not really. The only volatile element you have in abundance is oxygen, because the rocks are made of metal oxides. Sure you can make steel or aluminum and export it, but do you REALLY think that the cost of manufacturing those materials on the fucking Moon and transporting them back to Earth orbit would somehow be cheaper than just launching those materials into Earth orbit with a reusable TSTO? Remember, fuel costs on Earth are negligible, fuel costs on the Moon are enormous (higher than on Mars even because water is so much more rare), and Earth metals are cheap whereas Moon metals are going to be expensive as fuck because you're operating and industrial process in vacuum on a rock 400,000 km away from the advanced technological industry that supports it.

essentially, because TSTO reusable rockets are becoming a thing, literally all deep-space-mining projects that aren't solely focused on producing things for that place (for example lunar steel for lunar habitats or mars propellants for getting back to Earth) are NON VIABLE. It will be cheaper to do everything either based from Earth's industry, or in-situ for that situation. Shit like rockets built on the Moon or Mars that go from there to Jupiter or something will not be a thing for many many decades AFTER Moon/Mars are self-sustaining colonies.

Will space resources help or harm the energy cliff humanity is facing?

>>10946163
Neither, the only thing that can help us is terrestrial nuclear energy. Space based energy simply won't have enough impact on our civilizations in any sort of relevant time frame, even if we had some very clear pathway to space based energy and got serious about it starting today.

There's really nothing in space that can't be found on Earth either in equal or greater abundance. Concentration is a big deal, and doesn't tend to happen in space because pretty much nothing is as geologically active as Earth, especially not asteroids, which at best may consists of differentiated (heavier or lighter) material. Again, even if there were a 1 km wide spherical asteroid made of pure rare earth metals orbiting in the Earth-Moon system right now, we simply wouldn't be able to get enough of it onto Earth's surface for it to make a difference at all.

>>10946163
it wont do anything to it, positive or negative
that "energy cliff" only exists because of the unwashed masses eating anti-nuclear propaganda

Vega failure report:
>The Commission identified the anomaly’s most likely cause as a thermo-structural failure in the forward dome area of the Z23 motor.

http://www.arianespace.com/press-release/vega-flight-vv15-findings-of-the-independent-inquiry-commissions-investigations/

>>10946191
>solid rocket got too hot
what a fag

>>10946153
>Sure you can make steel or aluminum and export it, but do you REALLY think that the cost of manufacturing those materials on the fucking Moon and transporting them back to Earth orbit would somehow be cheaper than just launching those materials into Earth orbit with a reusable TSTO?
He probably does, but what it really means is raw materials for making O'Neill cylinders, which would be a total meme if they depended on materials from Earth.

>>10946219
Sure, but even in the most optimistic timeline you can imagine, we're a long way off from large orbital habitats. Those will be developed in step with eventual asteroid mining efforts, to give people a place to live in comfortable G and with overhead room while they're away from Earth, Moon and Mars for years at a time. The first ones will be relatively small compared to the most common designs we see drawn up today, but they'll give us the experience to build bigger and more complicated later on.

Orbital habitat technology is also what it's going to take to get us out to the outer solar system, because ti makes travel time pretty much a moot point as well as getting around all the issues associated with only having low gravity moons to work with. Once we get fusion power and propulsion, we can use that in step with orbital habitats to colonize any other star system in the galaxy.

So yeah, at some point making huge amounts of building materials on the Moon will make sense, but it won't be for a while, and it'll never make sense to use materials made on the Moon down here on Earth. Our best development path goes Moon and Mars, then asteroids, then orbital habitats everywhere, then interstellar. There will be some overlap and some steps are waaaay bigger than others (colonizing the Moon is like adding another continent's worth of living space and resources to what we already have, colonizing the asteroid belt alone with orbital habitats could easily eclipse the entire combined Earth-Moon-Mars carrying capacity populations combined), but I'm just making a general overview of the most effective way to get space-faring.

As a side note Venus colonization doesn't help us unlock anything else in the solar system and is really hard from any approach due to the delta V required for two-way transport plus the resource desert that is that environment people consider putting floating cities in. It either comes later or gets disassembled at some point.

>>10946311
Venus is an absolute meme planet for colonization. What are you going to do for raw materials, mine the surface? Good luck. An aerostat is just a space station in an atmosphere. Might as well colonize Jupiter.

Found this article. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/07/elon-musk-spacex-launch-utterly-depressing

>A mission to Mars does indeed sound exciting, but it’s important to have our priorities straight. First, perhaps we could make it so that a child no longer dies of malaria every two minutes.

How does one argue against someone who says that spaceflight should be defunded for world aid without sounding like some jackass who hates the poor?

>>10946385
>rheguardian
You don't. You will never change the mind of a self righteous leftist. The answer is to be as dismissive as possible, belittle them, and paint a more inspiring picture than they do. Nobody actually cares about muhlaria, or we would have solved it by now. What people care about is shiny giant rockets and nationalism.

>>10946385
God fucking dammit am I sick of hearing people give this decades-old "argument".
Fuck the Guardian.

>>10946385
>How does one argue against someone who says that spaceflight should be defunded for world aid without sounding like some jackass who hates the poor?

Doing one thing does not preclude someone else from doing another. There is no overlap in expertise, and we have the right to choose our own passions. If you know how to solve Malaria, great, do it, more power to you. I don't know how, and the pharmaceuticals who exist to make money solving these problems don't know how to yet, either.

>>10946391
>>10946385
>>10946392
also, always check the author, especially with opinion pieces
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/nathan-robinson
He literally just reeeeeez 24/7 about dem white ppl. He has nothing of value to say and you waste your time listening to him.

>>10946397
I didn't even check and I still had a feeling.
So this is the power of ultra-instinct?

>>10946404
It's a Guardian Op-Ed author, it would be shocking if he wasn't an unhinged lefty

>>10946397
But that doesn't change the fact that many people share his opinion. They see spaceflight as the most expensive thing ever and is a distraction from solving "real issues".

>>10946385
mainstream media is so desperate now it's nothing but clickbait. Also it's from years ago. Stop baiting us yourself, anon.

It's very easy to argue giving the actual figures of what public goes into Spaceflight and the vastly greater figure which is dumped needlessly into exploding population levels of the third world.

SpaceX is for the most part not public money so he's talking shit. Funny he used Whitey on the Moon as an example after First Man BTFO'd that shit.

>>10946385
simple explain them that if we never have any aid to africa in the first place the place would not be as fucked up as its now.

This is just another reason why the Space Force needs to be fully separated from the Air Force: https://spacenews.com/air-force-contends-the-space-force-should-not-have-a-separate-acquisition-office/

Even if it seems like a good idea that the Space Force should be under the Air Force (like the Marines are under the Navy), the Air Force will just keep fucking over space as much as it can to support air operations instead of space operations. I don't trust the Air Force at all when it comes to supporting space.

>>10946458
Say what you will about Space Force, but in the end it will mean more of the hugely bloated military budget will get redirected into spaceflight (and actually not into the black hole that is SLS). Whether you like Trump or not, this is a thing every spaceflight enthusiast ought to support.

>>10946385
X is more important that Y so Y should be defunded. Based on that logic 100% of tax money should be spent on one thing and one thing only.

>>10946458
>>10946468
I feel like I might be missing something. The guy argues that the Space Force should have its own, separate acquisitions budget under the Air Force so they can keep the tandem design elements while retaining their independent advocates for air and space systems.

China opening a restaurant in the fueselage of a used rocket http://www.ecns.cn/news/odds/2019-09-05/detail-ifzntuwi2499843.shtml

>>10946477
Uh, is that safe?

>>10942827
Normies and Christfags hate science.

>>10946485
Socialism grifters want more money and they believe White Guilt™ is the best way to get more.

>>10946477
>>10946482
The residual UDMH really adds to the flavor.

>>10943466
Actual aerospace engineer

Rocket engines are going to look the same for the most part when they have the same cycle and same requirements.

>Everything the Chinese make is a copy

Any word on when Space Force is going through. Someone said it would be this year, right?

>>10946482
They test it with Uighurs and when they stop dying it's safe.

>>10946496
I'm sorry. Did chinese invented or even contributed to the concept of the rocket engine?

>>10943516
I'm thinking about going over for the maiden full stack BFR launch. Willing to take weeks off for that

>>10943693
>free thinking and imagination
Most people are absolute sheep, even the clever ones

>>10946524
Fuck yea bro. I wish.

>>10946492
>>10946506

>>10946512
They invented the idea of strapping a guy to a chair and lighting a bunch of fireworks.
Not that it went very well...

>>10946500
Congress comes back from break next week. It should be done this month.

>>10943995
I think this is extremely far-fetched. If Starship is such an asset, the powers that be will want to see what SpaceX does next, not shut them down. 18m BFR could cement US hegemony in space for a generation. And quite apart from the intellectual property the company is extremely valuable in its own right as an ongoing innovation hub. It takes years and fortunes and a fair dash of luck to build an organisation that is capable of attracting the finest engineers in the US and providing them the right environment in which to revolutionise an industry. Moreover, the more money SpaceX can hoover up from customers, the less is available for foreign competitors to innovate. Shutting them down commercially would harm US interests, a bit like shutting down Los Alamos. Extremely unlikely.

>>10944048
Interesting

>>10946458
>Even if it seems like a good idea that the Space Force should be under the Air Force (like the Marines are under the Navy)
Foust posted this yesterday:
>In a letter today to Congress, the White House reiterates that the Space Force needs to be a “separate sixth branch,” calling language in the NDAAs insufficient.
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1169394570859298817

So it seems like both the White House and Senate prefer an independent Space Force, whereas the House prefers a Space Corps.

>>10946468
>Whether you like Trump or not, this is a thing every spaceflight enthusiast ought to support.
I thought so too but it seems like alot of space fans hate the Space Force now. I think alot of it has to do with people's hate for Trump though.

>>10946562
That's an interesting point mister anon, but have you considered that SpaceX is a threat to more pressing national matters? Such as, employment? If SpaceX is allowed to continue its mokery if a space agency, then it can threaten the largest employer of aerospace engineers, the Space Launch System (god bless it). SpaceX can single handedly increase the unemployment rate of this country to unacceptable levels. No company should hold that power over our proud nation. All I ask for is to tuck SpaceX under the reliable control of the Senate Committee on Appropriations and another mere $10B to develop America's most powerful launch system. Freedom and American reign in space isn't cheap mister anon, surely you of all people understand this.

>>10944010
Whats with the house and pool? is that private property that pre existed before spacex set up shop?

>>10946613
Maybe it's Elons personal hangout?

>>10945556
>>10945960
Cringe and bluepilled

>>10946612
Worse still , their employment diversity is egregious. Its practically a woman hating white supremacist movement. What is it with rockets and Nazism!

>2025
>Spacex Starship arrives at mars after eight months in deep space
>Crew prepares for landing
>Nigel Armsmart prepares to take the monomental first step on the surface
>collapses due to musculoskeletal wastage
>multiple deaths

Why aren't >we making centrifuges? Eight months of radiation and zero-g is going to fuck the spaceonauts up hard.

BFR won't be capable of launching a centrifuge in significant chunks, will it? Starship seems like a souped-up space shuttle to me. Impressive, but not especially forward-thinking

>>10946671
starship flights are 3 months

>>10946410
No, but they're also not going to listen to logic if they've worked themselves into that position. The solution is to go after the undecideds and sell them on space.

>>10946512
If we count black powder rockets then yes, the first use of chemical propellants by humans was chinese firecrackers and fire arrows. Basically a small black powder rocket strapped to an arrow.

>>10942631
Exploring the moon is a waste of time because we're never going to find anything there. What we should be doing is putting everything into venus, we need to scour every inch of its surface and dig deep into it to determine whether or not there are any signs of long lost civilizations.

>>10946671
>Still counts as making it!

Because they've mastered space multigyms now.

>>10946671
Two BFRs connected by a cable and spun up can easily provide 0.3-1g. We also don't know whether 0.3g is actually as harmful as 0g, there's some vague evidence it isn't but nothing concrete.

>>10946676
Space station astronauts can't walk after spending similar to that long up there. Surely spacex boffins have forecast for this, what is the explanation behind going with a zero/micro gravity vessel? Mars isn't exactly forgiving either. And they have to come back.

>>10946707
I don't think it would be too difficult to assemble a relatively modest centrifuge, in say a decade, when launchers can yeet big payloads to orbit regularly. You would only need a pleasant 0.5-0.7 ish g to avoid serious health problems, I think. However elon musk seems to be impatient and the kind of guy to risk the lives of starry eyed Armstrong wannabe's to be "the first" as soon as possible. NASA is too sluggish to be a worry in that regard, so I don't understand why they don't seem to want to go for maximum (and best) option instead of attainable but second-rate achievements. (In comparison)

The other concern is radiation and cosmic rays. People's brains are going to get fried out there. Is there any technology that could shield a vessel from it? Mini magnetosphere?

>>10946719
Another point against the "collapsing Martians" meme is that even if Starship is 0g with only minimal exercise equipment, so basically worst case scenario; you're only going from 0g to 0.3g. Again, we've never done it before, but logically that's a lot less strain than 0g to 1g. A third as much, in fact.

>>10946642
And you know what's worse than Nazis? Commies! And do you know what propellant depots are? Orbital advertisments for communism! We need to stop these depots and anyone who supports them before its too late!

>>10946719
mucoskeletal wasting is basically a solved problem now, thanks to low rep high load exercise

https://spacenews.com/resistive-targeted-exercise-reversed-astronauts-bone-loss-study-finds/

>Typically, astronauts would return to Earth with a total of 4 percent to 5 percent of their body mass gone.

>“Now, it’s a rule to have it more or less unchanged,” Barratt said. “We’re seeing insignificant changes in bone density. We’re actually seeing an increase in lean body mass and decrease in body fat. Until just recently, I would have given you absolutely opposite information.”


>The other concern is radiation and cosmic rays

Total dose will stay below 1 Sievert, leading to few % increase in cancer rate. This will not stop a Mars mission.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-05/the-silicon-valley-heavyweights-who-want-to-settle-the-moon

https://www.openlunar.org/

Open Lunar is a non-profit formed by a group of experts and thought leaders interested in lunar science and exploration who are working on coordinating public and private efforts for public benefit.

>>10946528
Got a while to plan though. Going to be another year or two I reckon. I'm talking about the full orbital launch.

This image shows a sharp-edged boulder located in asteroid Bennu’s southern hemisphere. The image was taken by the PolyCam camera on NASA’s OSIRIS-REx spacecraft on July 3, from a distance of 0.4 miles (0.7 km). The field of view is 30 ft (9.3 m). For scale, the angular boulder is 9 ft (2.8 m) long, which is about the length of a pool table. The image was obtained during the mission’s Orbital B phase at 5:30 pm Local Solar Time. When the image was taken, the spacecraft was over the southern hemisphere, pointing PolyCam straight down.

Date Taken: July 3, 2019

>>10946827
This image captures a view of a sun-lit boulder located in asteroid Bennu’s southern hemisphere. It was taken at 5:30 pm Local Solar Time, which explains the evening shadowing. The image was obtained by the PolyCam camera on NASA’s OSIRIS-REx spacecraft on July 4, from a distance of 0.4 miles (0.7 km). The field of view is 31 ft (9.3 m). For scale, the large boulder is 24 ft (7.2 m) long. The small, bright rock at the base of the boulder is 1.3 ft (0.4 m) long, which is about the length of a cat. The image was obtained during the mission’s Orbital B phase. When it was taken, the spacecraft was over the southern hemisphere, pointing PolyCam straight down.

Date Taken: July 4, 2019

>>10946814
intredasting thank

>>10946385
Remote sensed imagery and GPS for example have been critically important in helping us anticipate and mitigate numerous disasters both natural and man made. Said disasters often disproportionately affect the least equipped to cope. Satcoms are a critical tool for aid agencies. Satellite imagery has also enabled the identification and prevention of crimes against humanity. By enabling monitoring under various arms treaties one could argue space technology has helped prevent WW3.

>>10946405
Quite so. I worry about the intellect of my folks, who still choose to buy and read that rubbish. It's literally fairy tales for a type of person that is too weak, self-deluding and or narcissistic to face the truth about the world.

>>10946814
Well at least the ISS wasn't a complete waste of in the end.
Sure took its sweet fucking time though.

>>10946882
It was our only microgravity laboratory for a long time and currently still is. Not having it would have been so much worse.

>>10946814
It's not that good. They reversed the loss of bone mass, but the internal structure still changes, creating osteo-perosis-like voids inside the bones that leaves them brittle.

>>10946902
>They reversed the loss of bone mass
>creating osteo-perosis-like voids inside the bones
So you agree they stop the bone loss... but they didn't stop the formation of voids that are bone loss?
Nice job contradicting yourself in one sentence.

>>10947083
You know that even healthy bones aren't a solid lump of calcium, right?

>>10946704
>we need to scour every inch of its surface and dig deep into it to determine whether or not there are any signs of long lost civilizations.

t. Guy with no idea of the surface conditions on Venus.

>>10947131
>It's like as hot as Nevada during summer, right?

>>10946681
>The solution is to go after the undecideds and sell them on space.

That is a solution, but it costs buttloads of money. Unless Elon and/or Bezos go in on a massive PR campaign, we're fucked there. People who like Space are mostly poor.

>>10946468
>Say what you will about Space Force, but in the end it will mean more of the hugely bloated military budget will get redirected into spaceflight

Possibly. Or they'll fuck around, declare various things off limits for national security reasons, waste billions, and make space less popular.

Difficult to predict is the future.

>>10946591
I think the idea of Space Marines funny but the military ruins everything it touches

>>10947137
>Unless Elon and/or Bezos go in on a massive PR campaign
Dunno what else you call building giant shiny stainless steel rockets and showing them off at every opportunity, or flying a garbage bin around Texas on live TV

>>10947147
>Possibly. Or they'll fuck around, declare various things off limits for national security reasons, waste billions, and make space less popular.
this has already happened before

>>10946704
Oh fuck the Venus meme, "lol just use airbags 3head!"

I'll take Bezo's space stations in the year 999,999 over anything with a planet that can melt lead from the heat.

>>10947147
>Or they'll fuck around, declare various things off limits for national security reasons, waste billions, and make space less popular.
Conspiracy time, I think the United States has already tried this. Explains why the government didn't allow NASA to get a better vehicle than the Shuttle, tied all the other major space agencies to LEO via the ISS, cut China off any spaceflight support, and has been unfriendly to private space agencies (even American ones) that aren't directly tied to the government in some way. Even with the cheap payload prices offered by the Shuttle and now Spaceship, policing space to protect US space assets (GPS, weather tracking, spy stats, etc) would be incredibly expensive and it was seen that it was just easier to discourage spaceflight across the world so that the need to police wouldn't arise.

>>10947083
It's not a contradiction. The exercise causes the body to retain the bone tissue, but the tissues migrate to the outer wall, while the inner, spongy layers of bone go away.

>>10946819
>They're based out of San Francisco
Hard fucking pass.

>>10946370
Agreed. Venus is a dead end.

>>10947125
>>10947178
You still can't deny that nobody is breaking bones on their way back from space even after 12 month missions, and after less than a day they are capable of walking and functioning in Earth gravity. The idea that astronauts would be totally helpless and stuck to the floor on Mars after landing is nothing but FUD bullshit at this point.

>>10947275
Even if they were Mars is at one third the gravity. You could have crippling osteoarthritis already, and live on Mars to relieve your joint pain.

>>10947246
This, Venus has zero ISRU

>>10947246
>>10947313
Venus is for robotic missions that deploy enormous sun shades to cool it off.

>>10946671
spinning around with a spent booster was always a part of mars direct, and mars direct still continues to inform spacex's mars plans so it wouldn't surprise me if centrifugal gravity is still on the table

presentation when

>>10947499
28th still

>>10947499
>>10947540
I expect that if the date shifts, it will be because the Texas Mk1 isn't to the point he wants it to be.

>>10947541
Date won't shift because Elon wants to give his good old "bet the company moment" Falcon 1 speech again for the anniversary.

>>10946613
probably.
Also employees need bathrooms

>>10946671
Mars gravity is still weaker than earth's.
The real muscle degradation hits you when you're back on earth after having spent a few years on mars

>>10947451
Sun shades won't help you from the 400 degree atmosphere.

>>10947676
Well it could help, but you're still going to have all that material to deal with even if you chilled the planet.

>>10947809
It sounded like Anon meant a sunshade for a robotic probe, I think I just misunderstood that he meant robotic mission to build a megashade structure to allow the entire planet to cool.

That being said, even if we could block 100% of all incoming energy, it'd still take tens of thousands of years for Venus' surface to cool to the point that liquid water could form, because of the amount of heat energy stored in the atmosphere and the rocks.

>>10947828
And you still have a hilariously thick atmosphere, even if Venus was Eden otherwise can humans deal with that much air pressure on a daily basis?

>>10947877
No way, even helium becomes toxic as those pressures. If we were to cool down Venus to something approaching room temperatures though the CO2 would start to liquefy and form supercritical CO2 oceans, so the pressure wouldn't be quite so impossible. We'd have to get rid of all that liquid and gaseous CO2 in order to live on the surface proper though, so it doesn't solve the problem.

>>10947890
crack the co2 into oxygen and carbon
if you have the full retard energy to cool down a mcfucking planet, you can do that little bit more

>>10947890
If only we knew of a lifeform that takes in CO2 and exhausts O2, could spread on its own with little to no human intervention, and could be easily transported to another planet in a small embryonic capsule to save weight, like a tiny egg.

>>10947897
remember the news about scientists cooling things down with lasers? how about satellites that gather solar energy and turn it into cooling lasers pointed at venus.

>>10947902
If you replaced the Venusian atmosphere with the oxygen from the CO2, it would still be toxic.

>>10947908
that only works on individual atoms at a time

>more spacex potential landing sites on mars were found
>starship development plans were leaked by the FAA
its been an interesting day

>>10948309
>FAA leak
Wait wut?

>>10948324
https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-starship-rocket-site-boca-chica-texas-faa-written-reevaluation-2019-8
http://archive.is/4bk4E

>>10948330
where’s SH

>>10948348
that's phase 4, and is not included in this chart, because it doesn't fall within the scope of the original environmental assessment
they need to draft a new or a proper amendment to the environmental assessment to launch Super Heavy from Boca Chica

>>10948330
Mostly FAA reworks to shift from one type of vehicle traffic to another.

>>10947909
Why is this? Not the guy, but my chemistry knowledge is mostly from year 11

>>10948393
So, Venus has a fuckload of atmosphere. There's just a ridiculous amount of it. The surface pressure is 91 atmospheres, which is 91x Earth's sea level pressures. If you replaced the Venusian atmosphere with something humans would usually consider habitable, like 20/80 O2/N2, you'd have a partial pressure of 18 atmospheres of oxygen (91×0.2). Oxygen becomes toxic at around 1.6 atmospheres of partial pressure.

Now, that would also imply we had a way to magically turn CO2 into nitrogen. We don't. So it would be more like 20/80 O2/CO2, in which case you're well above toxic levels for both of them.

>>10943789
>>10943922
Normies think SpaceX is cool. Satellite contractors, government researchers and scientific NGOs like SpaceX launch prices. And that is literally all that matters.

FUCK NASA
FUCK ULA
FUCK EUROPEANS
FUCK THE RUSSIANS
FUCK SOYUZ
FUCK BOEING
FUCK BEZOS
FUCK BRANSON

but most importantly

FUCK JANNIES

>>10948406
Makes sense. I'm guessing that standing on the surface would feel like getting toasted at the bottom of an ocean trench. Hell. And i also assume that there is no way to vacuum suck the atmosphere off the planet, at least on any relevant timescale.

>>10943922
>Everyone in Europe dislikes American entrepreneurs who they perceive to be stepping on top of their traditions/institutions

This a such a typical American thinking (not by all Americans of course). For so many it's them against the rest of the world and that every other nation hates them. There are many regions where this is true but they are not the rest of the world. At least here in Germany, we are of course proud of our own stuff (without always comparing to others), but independent from that everyone acknowledges the many NASA achievements like the moon landing and the German space agency (DLR) and German research Institutions (like some Max-Planck Institutes) used Falcon 9 and even New Shepard for their missions and they praise those company's strength.

>>10947909
We'd need a lot of hydrogen to react excess oxygen into water, but the amounts would be ludicrous.
Hypothetically, type 1+ civilization could do it.

But any terraformation would take hundreds of years, if not thousands.

>>10947275
>The idea that astronauts would be totally helpless and stuck to the floor on Mars after landing is nothing but FUD bullshit at this point.

Correct. The real danger is that they would be quite fucked up AFTER landing back on Earth after 2 and a half years long mission. But they will certainly be fine on Mars, ISS has proven that much.

>>10948309
>>more spacex potential landing sites on mars were found
sauce

>>10948309
Starships getting more and more real I'm scared about snipers now.

>>10948330
Posting related images.
(1/2)

>>10948330
>>10948873
(2)

>>10948873
>cargo hold tilted on the side = two of them left and right?
>landing legs on fin tips
>mysterious 4 clamps in the back = the fuel connectors?
>some sort of hatch in the lower back = solar panels or fuel tank access port?

Now it will be interesting if someone could get detailed measurements of its height based on this image.

>>10948881
Elon on twitter has stated that the Starship designs in that are super inaccurate

>>10948887
Too bad. At least it depicts it in horizontal position which btfos some of the faggots that were claiming it cant possibly do that because it'll crumple under its own weight.

>>10948897
it's a big stainless tank, even if it can't support it's own weight in a nondesign direction you can just pressurize it until it does

>>10942695
Needs more feed water in the cooling tanks

>>10942746
>>10942681
>>10942692
Indian Chandrayaan 2 landing when?

>>10948913
>not having your tanks be made by intricately machined isogrid aluminum which was done in 5 separate states
Its like you don't want to support our defense contractors.

>>10948897
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1169837408780578821?s=20

>>10947902
Plants can't live in an atmospheric mix like Venus'

>>10949056
it would take some bioengineering, yes, well beyond state of the art

>>10948518
There's no way to vacuum susck the atmosphere off of a planet at all, because atmospheres are already surrounded by vacuum and they aren't going anywhere, because in reality vacuums don't pull, they just give the atmosphere outside somewhere to push due to the pressure built up by its weight in gravity.
The only way to remove atmosphere from Venus in a non-destructive way would be to manually go down, compress atmosphere into cans, and then launch those cans into space, to either be used somewhere else or vented at escape velocity.
The other way to do it is very destructive and involved mega-lasers powered by the Sun that would manually strip the atmosphere away by blasting it with enough heat that the particles started reaching escape velocity on their own.

>>10948835
>The real danger is that they would be quite fucked up AFTER landing back on Earth
Which isn't even really a big deal because on Earth there's people to help them get around, and advanced medical services if needed.

>>10948881
>mysterious 4 clamps in the back
there are six of them

apparently there's L2 information about the acoustic environment of a Super Heavy launch??
L2 anon please

>>10948851
Steel, bro. They're fully armored. Hopper is an exception because it lost its cone, so there were some pressure tanks exposed on top. I think they're going to avoid the external plumbing completely with the full-size prototypes.
>>10949056
>Plants
If you're thinking of plants with leaves, you're thinking too big. We already have extremophiles on Earth, surely we could find some that will live on Venus. Also, while the floating colonies idea may be silly for humans, imagine floating colonies of algae and other muck growing on balloons in the lower pressure, lower temperature altitudes.

>>10949121
making the balloons self-reproducing sounds like a bioengineering task beyond modern science but may eventually be possible and will then become the plot of bad science fiction movies

>>10948542
Germans/uk have higher opinion of US due to ties with US. Move away from them and you get a huge amount of anti-American view.

The societies are very different, Europe is stagnant and appreciates its institutions. US appreciates individual will and freedom to explore new frontiers, and thus doesn't have a too much reverence for institutions.

New thread:

>>10949168

>>10949171
early?

>>10949181
Thread is already autosaging, might as well.

>>10949185
he should have waited another four hours then there could be a new thread just in time for the landing stream
or he could have waited another six or whatever for the thread to be on page 10

>>10949181
Page 8 is okay, but late page 9 is probably best.

>>10949181
wanted to keep the thread near page 1 so people dont miss the Chandrayayyayn livestream

>>10949194
chandrayanyan

>>10949194
Or you could, maybe, start a new thread just for that and put a link into /sfg/, then you could keep the inevitable poo-in-loo spam over there.

>>10948877
It's taking off ski jump style now?!