/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10932334
>be physicist
>have model of reality
>its ultra concise perfectly consistent in 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of all cases after literal trillions of trillions of observations...
>one freak case in which it might not apply but also we might be missing something
>lets be cautious and dont assume the vast majority of observations are wrong

fixxed that for ya little boy

>>10932334
>>10932440
but maths are the same thing too...
both are abstract concepts and liberal arts tier.
the ego is killing mathematicians and they don't notice that...
I rather do something that truly has a future like medicine, CS or chemistry.

>>10932473
shit son, if math and physics are liberal arts tier, what the fuck is a good degree?

>Be retard on 4chan.
>Cannot understand a scientific concept.
>Devote your miserable life to preach on 4chan about how said concept is fault in some way or another.
Just off yourself, you and the induction retard and everyone other nutcase. I fucking hate the lot of you.

>>10932334
But this is exactly how neutrinos were discovered.

Why can't small brains into science?

>>10932531
Let's be honest. If I throw my poop 10,000 times at the wall, at least one poop gets to stick one time.

>>10932334
>be physicist
>have model of existence that has previously been consistant with reality
>existence contradicts your model
>"hmm, that can't be!"
>Comes up with explanation and incorporates it with his old theory or changes his own theory accordingly
ftfy.

>>10932536
I'm not sure what your point is. That there's 10,000 examples of scientists doing this for every 1 times it actually results in a discovery?

>>10932504
I just mention it, a degree in medicine is a good degree, programming and fixing computers make for a excellent degree, chemistry can give you a nice job and pays well if you search, electricians have a good degree and actually do something important unlike mathematicians who are just in a table like tards counting 1 2 3.
mechanical engineering too is a good degree to get in your hands.
being a pilot or a sailor, etc...
mathematicians give themselves way too much credit and think they are the hype here until a pipe breaks and its time to call the damn plumber.
physicist at least bother to discover shit and do science from time to time, is still liberals art tier.
maths are at the end of the day a really bad meme and make a joke out of those who practice it.

>>10932554
so basically its good if it pays well or its practical?

if it were for you thered be no literature no history and no basic research into any field?

math is literally the basis of all of those applied fields you mentioned. Medicine, engineering, chemistry and computers all use (extremely advanced) math

>>10932565
>if it were for you thered be no literature no history and no basic research into any field?
don't get crazy, those are vital for the progress of humanity and its growth, its fundamental unlike maths.
they overcomplicate a problem with a simple solutions, they are mental gymnastic at its peak, not even shitty women can pull off such delutions.
>math is literally the basis of all of those applied fields you mentioned.
nope, its just maths.
it remains there, is a useful tool but its not everything.
it can lead to stagnation and make you unable to go forwards in what you want.
beyond basic maths, they are not truly needed.
>Medicine, engineering, chemistry and computers all use (extremely advanced) math
in a small and really pathetic way, just basics.
but alas, mathematicians love to pat themselves in the back and say they invented the world itself.

>>10932598
I forgot to add...
that pride and stupidity that mathematicians have needs to get put down a peg don't you think? like I said before, the ego is killing mathematicians and they aren't noticing it.
stop being a yes-honey to maths, telling the world that you wear the pants won't do...because we all know that your wife will tell you which pair to wear.

>>10932610
no, its incredibly advanced math, how do you think computer increase performance, by using ultra rare and bizarrae, quasi magical algorithms, same with space trajectory calculation.
how to improve fuel efficiencty of a car 1%? model it using all fields of math.

at first it was useless, noy yuo admit it has some uses but say they are few.

the goalpost is so far away from its original spot you cannot see it anymore even with at elescope.

you not only need learn math, you also need to learn logic

>>10932620
you seem to be confused, maths and logic aren't the same.
maths make a really small part and insignificant in those fields.
you can't seem to see beyond maths, you don't bother and won't bother since thats all you will do.
let me repeat, maths do a insignificant part in what you mentioned, is basics that a child can do.
its not hard at all and you can do them yourself.
also space trajectory calculation? isn't that actually physics? well its no surprise, mathematicians steal all the time but thats not what we are talking here so lets pretend that mathematicians don't try to grab anything, call it their on and buff themselves up trying to make up for the things they lack.
logic is important, but maths are a mere basic tool that isn't it that important beyond knowing to count.
mathematicians are almost like the niggers of science, almost, but still nigger-like.

>>10932620
>you not only need learn math, you also need to learn logic
>math ALSO logic
>explicitly refers to math and logic as two different things
>>10932648
this retard starts of with:
>you seem to be confused, maths and logic aren't the same.

I insist, you need to learn both

>>10932537
Except that there is no evidence for dark matter, every test for it has failed completely. It's for tin foilers

>>10932334
The universe is static in time, and possessing of a uniform distribution of matter on the largest scales, leading to a finite, static universe of spherical spatial curvature. Any observations of the contrary can be countered by using a cosmological constant.

--Albert Einstein

>>10932598
>t. retarded comp sci major or engineer
Keep coping with your meme degree while the alpha mathematician sets the basis for the yet to be found theories in all of science.

>>10932648
So now kids, see what happens when you study science or engineering? Don't be like this retard.

>>10932648
>let me repeat, maths do a insignificant part in what you mentioned, is basics that a child can do.
the math used in computer encryption for example, is so complicated that sometimes a person who studies it for 30 years straight can barely grasp a part of it.

>>10932694
>Keep coping with your meme degree while the alpha mathematician sets the basis for the yet to be found theories in all of science.
and suddenly the bathroom clogs, are you going to make a equation to unclog it or call a plumber to fix it?.
you only count, nothing else unlike most out there.
so call down, your ego is showing.
>>10932699
way to try to turn it around, this is the equivalent of who hurt you in the scientific field.
kids, never become stagnant like this retard who wants to apply the crabs in a bucket on your ass.
maths ain't all there is in this world, there are better fields you can take.
when its time to prove something, mathfags will be the first to run away like a jewish coward.

>>10932440
>0.0000000000000001% of cases make up 80% of the mass of the universe
Someone get this man a tenure fasttrack

>>10932710
>bu-but we wuz maths & shit
because maybe people are overcomplicating themselves like maths tend to do with problems.
sometimes math make a problem even worse and when you see it feom another angle, suddenly you realize the answer was more simple than you initially though.
maths is nothing more than a basic tool to help you, its not the answer to everything.
when the cellphone get its screen broken, you don't start to calculate and do algebra, you go to the damn technician to fix the damn thing.
maths should be a tool to help you, but many here insist is everything and that lead to unnecessary problems and complications, leading a project or job to total stagnation.
we should do more than just fucking maths but mathematicians insist on the opposite because they are junkies that get high everytime they solve a problem they themselves created.

>>10932334
Well if elephants standing on turtles supporting a world on top fits all observations of existence made then that is the best model you have until proven otherwise.

>>10932721
>mathematicians insist on the opposite because they are junkies that get high everytime they solve a problem they themselves created.
shots fired

>>10932440
In mathematics a statement is false if it is wrong 0.000000000000...0001% of the time. Way to BTFO GR cucklord

>>10932735
fuck math

>>10932807
speaking about fucking math...
where are they? one second ago they were chimping about their numbers and now there is no answer.
they took lots of dicks before but couldn't take criticism now?.
well thats to be expected, when someone is catching up to their bullshit they are really quick to retreat like a quack doctor when you catch the bastard in the act.
makes you wonder if people someday will notice how full of shit these mathfags are.

>>10932694
>>10932699
>they actually ran away

>>10932565
>medicine relies on math
umm no sweaty sorry that’s wrong its pure induction

>>10933074
maybe they think surgery requires algebraic expressions.
these people by reflex go and take credit from everything, they have been patting themselves in the back for a long time.

>>10932620
you can’t teach logical reasoning

>>10932334
Nothing new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_of_Neptune

>>10932440
What an asbolutely fucking terrible way to do this.
A SINGLE counterexample is proof against the statement "for all X P(x)"
That holds for empiricism too. Yes, you HAVE TO throw out the entire model if there is a counterexample, because the model is objectively wrong.

>>10932554
>>10932598
Just by the way you write it's obvious you are a brainlet who is angry you can't understand math

>>10932648
>you seem to be confused, maths and logic aren't the same.
Logic is a subclass of mathematics, that is it is a heyting algebra. Do you even know what computation, mathematics, logic, and type theory is? Topology? You don't know anything. Please stop posting.

>>10933270
You have no idea how science works. If you have a succesful model and then you find a single counter-example, you do not throw the model away, you try to modify it to accomodate the new information. It is the correct approach. Deal with it, brainlet.

>>10933285
I know how science works (that is, I understand the current model of fallibility as laid down by Popper, and science as being the expression of Empiricist epistemology).
The problem is, contraditctions and the rationalist underpinning is more fundamental than the empiricist scaffolding. If you find a counterexample, it means the structure is wrong, it is a contradiction. If "science" doesn't work in the way I am describing, then it is worthless. Deal with it, you projecting brainlet.

>>10933292
If a contradiction can be easily resolved, it is not a real contradiction. This is what actual logic teaches us. Again, you modify the model before throwing it away.

>>10932334
>What the fuck is an axiom?

>>10933292
Well, kinda yes, slightly different model is a different model, but it's semantics.

>>10933274
keep coping with the fact that maths are useless compared to other jobs and careers.
besides business, banks and being a math professor, what can a mathematician accomplish? not much.
>>10933276
is the other way around retard, maths is a subclass of logic.
logic came way before we discovered maths, its because we had attained logic that we realized we could do maths and organize shit in the first place.
logic gave birth to maths, not the other way around.
you are the one who don't know shit and is grabbing everything else to make up for the things you lack.
accept the fact that beyond basics, math isn't needed for most jobs in the world.
they only have a very insignificant part in our daily lives.
topology doesn't need anything beyond highschool level maths.
stop patting yourself on the back, get out that yggdrasil out of your ruined ass, get off the high horse, stop being so hard headed and stop being stubborn.
I know it hurts that you are not better than anyone else and that the defect of maths, pride and ego form their logic.

>>10933352
>is the other way around retard, maths is a subclass of logic.
You literally have no idea what you are talking about. Logic is a branch of the Heyting lattice that corrosponse to a propositional calculus.
I am not going to talk to you anymore, you have a 95IQ and clearly don't know what you're talking about and clearly just dislike math because you can't do it.

>>10932334
Please synthesize a new theory of gravity that explains away “dark matter”. Until then, stop talking.

>>10933352
Read this
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-algebraic-propositional/
and watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev7AYsLljxk
Computation is a superclass over mathematics which is a superclass over logic.

>>10933360

Electric universe theory

>>10932504
Engineering is the only degree I respect.
I would say chemistry, since chemistry is badass, but we've all met that one chem graduate whose expertise was limited to "don't drink the funny smelling liquids"

>>10932554

Bugperson detected. "I may not have any deep or interesting thoughts about anything ever, but at least I can buy toys and help make toys for other people!". Imagine having such a low IQ and intolerance of abstraction that this is actually how you measure success.

>>10933358

Good move. Daily reminder not to interact with double digit IQ posters.

>>10933358
>>10933376
>>10933396
>>10933398
Found the thread
>>10900677
Jesus fuck guys

>>10933384

>>10932735
>>10933270
>>10933292
The mathematical and the scientific methods are very different, brainlet

>meanwhile in CS land
>"this '1+1=3' shit is fishy, thereby I must iterate it again"
>"1+1=1.999928397"
>"good enough"

>>10933308
>semantics
holy shit define slightly different you fucking pleb

>>10933423
>scientific methods
lmaoing at your existence
Empiricism or gtfo, go shill your pseudo religious idolatry on the relevant board.

>>10933484
The scientific method is empirical though

>>10932554
> programming and fixing computers
programming is taught to both math and physics graduates if you're in a good program.
fixing computers isn't... a degree, friend - that's vocational training.

actually you know what, fuck it you're beyond hope. you're so hopelessly wrong that the you're either from a third world country or just very poorly educated. i'd feel bad if i made fun you, to be honest.

>>10932721
You seem to have an incredibly distorted and inaccurate view of what math is.
>maths should be a tool to help you
Why? Because you say so? Why are you so bothered that people are interested in exploring systems and the relationships between abstract objects and structures? Why can’t mathematics be explored for its own sake? Do you get this upset anytime someone does anything that “doesn’t benefit mankind”? Do you get upset when someone plays an instrument or draws a picture?

You talk about to technicians and technology but you fail to acknowledge that those innovations and inventions that you designste as useful to humanity were created and designed precisely because of advancements made in mathematics. The models used to create these things relied on mathematical principles. You are correct that many of the problems in mathematics have few or no immediate practical applications, but there have been cases in the past where a branch that was developed out of curiosity ended up being being immensely valuable later on, and ended up having practical applications.

Almost all fields of STEM have their foundations in mathematics. Why are you so combative and hostile? Did you get molested by a quadratic equation?

>>10933588
based

I completely agree, I give the same autistic and angry speeches

>>10933588
yeah but abstract mathematics is fucking useless shit. I'm convinced they only promote it because it was created by Emmy Noether, and they want to give some credit to a (jewish) female. Mathematics is only useful when you're dealing with calculations, problem solving, which most of this heavily abstract mathematics has nothing to do with. I swear you go into some of these math classes and it's literally like a foreign language

>>10932334
What are you referring to exactly?

>>10933601
he's talking about how Einstein's laws failed so catastrophically to describe the universe we see through the telescope that they created all these bizarre theories about 99% of the universe being undiscovered "dark matter" and "dark energy", which literally only exist to make the equations work.

It's basically the equivalent of appealing to the sky gods

>>10932334
>I can't make threads on /sci/ so I will settle for replying to shitposts to hijack the thread
New thread topic: What mechanical description of motion should I optimize in order to optimize a strike? Possible answers include:
>kinetic energy
>momentum
>force
>impulse
>pressure
>optimize closeness to natural frequency
>something else?

>>10932440
>>its ultra concise perfectly consistent in 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of all cases after literal trillions of trillions of observations...
you have no idea what you are talking about, brainlet.

>>10933613
But General Relativity has been debunked. Only pseuds think it hasn't been. Only reason we still use it is because we don't have anything better. Same reason some of you still have gfs :)

>>10933640
I think if that were true people would be putting effort into trying to find new laws of gravitation, rather than all this bullshit about dark matter. I guess it's good for sucking up shitloads of grant money from the government

>>10933649
>people would be putting effort into trying to find new laws of gravitation
We have a limited amount of observational data. We need what I call the RFBT, or Really Fucking Big Telescope. We need to construct a telescope on the moon costing 10 trillion dollars that has a diameter of 200km. THEN we will see progress in the field of cosmology.

>>10932334
I know you're talking about dark matter but this is exactly what the Copenhagen "Interpretation" is. Lets's just add more rules because I don't like the many worlds "interpretation" (aka implication)

1/3 = 0.333...
3×1/3 = 3×0.333...
1 = 0.999...

>>10933665
why do scientists get money from the government if the research is so valuable? shouldn't science be paying for itself

>>10933640
>But General Relativity has been debunked.
No it hasn't
>Only pseuds think it hasn't been.
No, pseuds are the ones who believe in plasma/electric universe or other falsified shit.

>>10933697
Because the research is released publicly so that corporations and companies can make financial gain from it equally. If the research was sold privately it would pay for itself but would benefit the world less comparatively since it wouldn't be distributed equally. Science is inherently socialist.
>>10934025
Yes it has been debunked. It doesn't work in 100% of instances therefore it is not a valid theory. It's currently the most valid theory so it's the one everybody uses and should use until someone thinks of a better theory using whatever observational data is acquired in the future.

>>10933613
Ya dum.

Dark energy is predicted and expected by general relativity and QM. Though much more is predicted than we see, which is another issue.

Dark Matter is simply the name of the phenomenon of galaxies spinning faster than they should according to vanilla GR. it doesn’t state what the solution is, but the main theory is there is literally “dark matter” in galaxies making up extra mass that allows for the faster spinning. There are some other potential explanations, but none of them look very healthy right now.

>>10934035
>It doesn't work in 100% of instances therefore it is not a valid theory.
I guess there’s no such thing as a valid theory then retard.

>>10934052
>I guess there’s no such thing as a valid theory then retard.
Theories that work 100% of the time become Laws.

>>10934025
>he doesn’t believe in aether
brainlet. cuck. swine.

>>10932334
Kek

>>10932735
No one is saying "this model accurately describes all of reality", though.

>>10934124
If it doesn't describe all of reality it's a shit theory. TOE when?

>>10934047
no it's not predicted or expected, it's just how they are explaining away the fact that galaxies appear to be accelerating away from us. That's the point, everything we are seeing up there is not corresponding even a little bit to what we predict or expect.

Remember Einstein himself had a nebulous "fudge factor" in his equations called the cosmological constant. But even that wasn't enough to explain away any of this shit

>>10934124
>No one is saying "this model accurately describes all of reality", though.
I am.

>>10934127
K

>>10934131
Exactly. No one.

>>10934139
that really hurts anon...

>>10934130
>no it's not predicted or expected
You’re a fucking retard. QM states all space has a minimum absolute energy, known as vacuum energy.

GM states that all energy warps space. The math works out that vacuum energy causes space to stretch apart, which is what we see in dark energy.

His “cosmological constant” originated before QM was developed. It was also not made to match observations, Einstein just assumed the universe was static in size. That’s why he later called this his biggest blunder.

>>10932685
Except for gravimetric lensing analysis

>>10932685
If there was no evidence for dark matter no one would be talking about it.

>>10932440
>99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%
That's a weird way to spell "15%"

>>10935018
I think you vastly miscalculated the fallibility of the human race. There's no God and no evidence for God, and yet billions of people talk about God every single day as if they personally know everything about him.

>>10932334
I know this is a troll thread but are there any books that more or less argue this but in a scholarly manner? I want to see a good critique of the foundational aspects and assumptions of science

>>10935109
Based
Give 'em hell anon.

>>10935118
Introduction to Logic
Just learn about cognitive bias and rhetorical fallacy, there's nothing wrong with science. just faggots

>>10935123
You're actually retarded, read a book

>>10935125
Which book exactly smart guy?

>>10935125
You're actually a faggot if you think the problem is science and not scientists.

>science and math board
>hates science and math
The absolute state of this /sci/thole