/sci/ - Science & Math

Did a girl named Venus hurt you? Tell us, we care.

>>10902150
I hope for your own good they dont sent a probe there and figure out a way to live there
in the other thread with the venusfag they actually brought really good ideas on how to build a successful colony step by step

>>10902150
can you show us on the doll where the planet touched you?

>>10902207
Venus colonization is old hat anon, it's been talked about since the Cold War era
Besides, there's several planned probes for Venus including a: wind powered clockwork rover that communicates via morse code

>>10902227
>Besides, there's several planned probes for Venus including a: wind powered clockwork rover that communicates via morse code
why don't they send a small zeppelin? it'll be ideal

>>10902268
They want to learn about its surface too anon, and that's probably too delicate/heavy with current tech

>>10902288
>400 C surface temperature
>sulfuric acid clouds
>extremely high atmospheric pressure
>meanwhile modern blimps use polyesters and light metals

Yeah it'll probably melt upon entry

>>10902338
at 50km to 55km is relativately safe in venus and with an actual earth like conditions minus the air and acid but still sending a small zeppelin the size of a weather balloon in that place will be enough, besides if we coat said probe with something that will resist the acid like teflon for example, it may do the trick.

Bumping for no fucking reason.

>>10902338
Density of the atmosphere near the surface is about 64 kg/m^3, meaning balloons made of fucking metal float. Such balloons can be made strong enough to withstand reentry more or less directly:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110016033_2011017088.pdf
>>10902227
It's not a planned mission and it wasn't morse code, it was more like semaphore with radar reflectors. That was found to be somewhat impractical though and a simple silicon carbide radio is being investigated.
https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2017_Phase_I_Phase_II/Automaton_Rover_Extreme_Environments/

>>10903173
we should send a probe there, to the upper atmosphere of course.

>we can colonize the atmosphere
How do you colonise the fucking atmosphere? Floating platform? How do you make it float? Anti gravity tech?

this whore doesnt even have a magnetic field

>>10903189
Surface is a higher value scientific target at the moment

>>10903198
the atmosphere is 96.5% CO2 dummy.
you can actually float there with regular air, its an amazing advantage since also that place have a pressure equal to earth, if you have a hole, it won't explode and actually go out slowly.

>>10903234
why not both? we can use a small rigid aircraft with special lifters to allow the small land probe to not overheat and last longer.
maybe put a special system in the small aircraft to repair and mend the damage on the land probe.

>>10903263
the venusian rover in question would be about the size of curiousity. Although more likely it might just be a lander than a rover. Those planetary scientists really want a seismometer on venus real bad. That means demonstrating tech that can survive hell and characterizing the surface environment over a long time period. Shit like wind can really fuck up seismometers, Venera may have even detected fucking gravel blowing around and hitting it. Despite the wind speed being low the atmosphere is dense! Understanding the hell chemistry is a goal too.
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/vexag/meetings/archive/vexag_14/presentations/27-Kremic-Long-Lived%20Venus%20Station.pdf
>>we can use a small rigid aircraft with special lifters to allow the small land probe to not overheat and last longer.
Venus mobile explorer proposed doing that. It lands does some science and inflates a metallic hell balloon to go up 8-16 km, blows with the wind and goes down. Ends up lasting marginally longer than the Venera probes. You need to get up pretty fucking high for it to make any difference in temperature at all.
>>special system in the small aircraft to repair and mend the damage on the land probe.
robots are incapable of autonomous repair and teleoperated repair from earth is untenable.
If you want to explorer the atmosphere there's LEAVES(google it). Just drop sensors and hope the atmosphere keeps em up long enough.
That being said, there are other similarly retarded ideas that have gotten funding from NASA:
https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2019_Phase_I_Phase_II/Power_Beaming/
I want to know what the fuck they were smoking when they funded that.
The issue we face right now with Venusian surface probes is that silicon stops semiconducting past about 200 degrees so we have to use SiC electronics. We just can't make very good SiC electronics right now because of issues with making the packaging.

>>10903198

>>10903497
maybe...we actually can overcome the challenge of the venusian surface.
what about re-inventing the peltier effect? in venus, the scorching heat will be enough to cause a retroalimentation.
the heat outside will power the machine and its special coolers inside, so that even if the probe gets its wheels rekt, it'll still be functional.
even if the camera breaks, it'll still be useful and constantly detecting seismic movements.

>>10903497
>Venus mobile explorer proposed doing that.
>It lands does some science and inflates a metallic hell balloon to go up 8-16 km, blows with the wind and goes down.
leaving it that low is fucking retarded, it won't last and they will end up exposing the damn probe to the worst of venus.
>Ends up lasting marginally longer than the Venera probes.
of course, nothing would last there longer than a few hours at best.
>You need to get up pretty fucking high for it to make any difference in temperature at all.
and thats why we need to send a probe that stays at 50km to 55km, at 50km above venus the conditions are nearly earth-like, the exact same pressure on earth and a manageable temperature that range from 20°C to 70°C.
the only thing it will need to do is avoid the damn acid clouds or coat the zeppelin with teflon so that it can remain safe from acid clouds.
if it remains as a weather balloon or in this case as a weather zeppelin, we will discover lots of things and have many questions answered.
since the CO2 is heavier than air, it'll be easy to lift itself there with oxigen and if we manage to vacuum seal the thing, I bet that it will last a long time on air.
it can maybe even carry inside a exact copy of the lander so that when the first lander finally succumbs, it can go and transmit all the information to the copy and continue where it left.
obviously it will descend safely like a half-bomb like shell tied to a special balloon.

It's time will come too in the new space age.

>>10902158
I think OP is characterising Venus as beligerent because it will not divulge any of its features to the prying eyes of astronomers and to humanity at large. OP's point is that a dull featureless white ball is not very interesting.

>>10903678

What did this Fox News contributor and member of Trump's EPA transition team mean by this?

From what I've heard there are altitudes where the atmosphere has similar conditions to Earth's surface. We could make floating cities there.

>>10903678
sir I'm going to have to arrest you for a violation of the second law of thermodynamics.
>>10903698
>>the damn probe to the worst of venus.
and we want to do science on the surface
>>of course, nothing would last there longer than a few hours at best.
Again, the main issue is the electronics. Practically speaking silicon doesn't work as a semiconductor past 300 C. The Venera probes stopped function because the solder in their electronics melted, sure we could have used higher temp solder, but it wouldn't matter because the electronics would no longer function at these temperatures anyway. But now we have silicon carbide electronics. They aren't very good, but we can now make simple integrated circuits. The problem with them is the packaging and making them reliable. What we encase the chip in and what we use to make the chip connections. It took us a while to do this for regular silicon chips, it's taking us some time to do it for silicon carbide. It's not an insurmountable problem it just involves some engineering. It's not going that fast because applications of SiC electronics are pretty niche. Although there is a company claiming this problem is solved, so it might not be an issue anymore.
>>why we need to send a probe that stays at 50km to 55km
except that we want to do science on the surface not in the atmosphere. You can't get good seismometry data high in the atmosphere.

>>10904520
>From what I've heard there are altitudes where the atmosphere has similar conditions to Earth's surface.
>We could make floating cities there.
found a interesting comment that may interest you
>>108970024

>>10904643
>except that we want to do science on the surface not in the atmosphere. You can't get good seismometry data high in the atmosphere.
who said anything about seismometry?
thats for studying the atmosphere and weather on venus alongside how the conditions are on that sweet spot

>>10903251
>get hole in your space home
>acid comes in and you die instantly

>>10904665
Scientists I guess. Onee of the most interesting things about venus is the resurfacing events. Which may be linked to other phenomenon.

Why not just drop a nuclear powered actively cooled probe instead of developing crazy new materials?

>>10902158
Do Americans really name their children "Venus"?

>>10902158
Bro I’m so sad

>>10904384
>white

>>10905303
I think that's more of a black name desu

>>10902150
>Get Fucked: The Planet

Mfw grav lifting CO2 from venus to create biomes in the rest of the sol system.

>>10905187
>implying it wouldn't be designed like the hindenburg mixed with submarines concepts so that a leak in remains in one room.

>>10905217
thats exactly what the peltier probe was supposed to do.
but it seems it violates thermodynamics.

>>10905217
Financial interests favor expensive cutting edge projects and scientific interests favor expensive cutting edge projects.

>>10904516
even the onion can't compete with this

>>10905318
that picture's fake.
>>10905217
>>Why not just drop a nuclear powered actively cooled probe
NASA's running low on plutonium. You need a stirling engine to generate enough power for cooling, but NASA cancelled development of that. Because of all the moving parts you have, you generate noise which will interfere with your seismometry.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268569312_Venus_Rover_Design_Study
And even then you can't keep the whole probe cool, but that's fine because the only problem is electronics so only those need to be kept cool. Except now we almost have silicon carbide electronics that can withstand the temperatures. Potentially even within a year or two. Developing said electronics probably as much or less than obtaining the plutonium.

>>10906033
people seems to forget about the pressure of venus alongside the heat.
its far cheaper to simply have a rigid weather balloon in venus rather than having a rover on its surface.

is it me or suddenly everyone started to talk about colonizing and inhabiting venus?
look at this shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-zZkuGAVQY

>>10906810
Except there's value in doing science on the surface. A high value mission is investigating atmospheric circulation and surface chemistry over one Venusian day(224 earth days). The chemistry of a supercritical mixture of CO2 and nitrogen is not well understood so there's value in investigating the what the hell's going on. Looking at chemical species and weather, such as temperature, pressure, wind speed, direction, helps us determine how these chemical species circulate around. There are some pretty basic questions to investigate, it turns out we really don't understand the ratio of nitrogen and CO2 near the surface all that well. There's looking at stuff that's a signature of vulcanism H2O, SO2, HCl, CO. There might even be fucking metals in the atmosphere the volatile metals like Cu, Zn, Sn, Pb, As, Sb, Bi might have some interesting transport processes on Venus:
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/94JE02708
Volatile metal sulfides are believed to be responsible for Venus' 'snow' appearing on mountain tops in radar images. Ferric chloride has been believed to be detected in the clouds, so chemistry going on at the surface has to be getting it up there. Understand all this is interesting science, but it also helps us make more durable surface probes too.

>>10907398
I propose to sent a probe to the hightest point on the planet.
maxwell montes.
not only the pressure there is far more manageable but also the temperatures the are considerably lower alongside a smooth peak, almost like a road.
it would be a perfect start.
besides it is believed that place is sensitive to seismic activity so sending a lander there, it is also 11km above the surface.
who knows...maybe that area is not only rich in materials but also it may as well have a unique material that can only be found there.

>>10907429
this place is ideal to begin a investigation on the surface, it may give us the chance to open a gate to surface investigation on venus.

>>10907429
Pressure's not much of a problem, spacecraft have carried gas tanks that hold more pressure. It's much harder to make something that contains pressure than something that's under pressure. Or get this, just don't have any low pressure stuff on the inside. The temperature on Maxwell Montes is 385 C which is still above the temperature at which regular electronics can operate and again, the biggest issue is with the electronics. Second because the atmosphere of Venus is pretty goddamn dense your probe is gonna fall for a long time(>1 hour), the wind's gonna blow it around a lot, meaning we can't guarantee the probe will land on favorable terrain which Maxwell Montes ain't gonna have much of because it's a fucking mountain.

>least studied planet in the solar system
>completely featureless light blue ball
>not even a gas giant anymore, downgraded to "ice giant"
>nobody gives a shit about me
>the only time people even acknowledge my existence is to make fun of my name
Nobody has it worse than Uranus, the true "Get Fucked" planet.

>>10908271
even to this day, that planet get made fun of thanks to its name.
I have an idea.
what about setting a space station there? we can get the water from its moons.

I´M YOUR VENUS, I´M YOUR FIRE

>>10907487
>the wind's gonna blow it around a lot, meaning we can't guarantee the probe will land on favorable terrain which Maxwell Montes ain't gonna have much of because it's a fucking mountain.
thats why we would need a vacuum sealed zeppelin around 50km above venus.
we could use said zeppelin to coordinate the fall to ensure a higher success rate.

Do we have enough asteroids or comets to just bombard the shit out of it with ice?

Like, what'd happen if we just threw a quarter of the asteroid belt at Venus?

>>10908295
>>coordinate
and what in the fuck is it gonna do? What the fuck do you mean by coordinate? There's still a fair amount of lower atmosphere the probe's gonna pass through, so measuring the wind speed at that layer won't help much. You've just made a surface mission MUCH more expensive. But again, there aren't many benefits of landing on a mountain. Just wait until we get SiC electronics. Which should be fucking soon as NASA's fundy development of SiC chip foundry.

>>10906033
>NASA's running low on plutonium
Hey dumbass, we aren't talking about a piddly little RTG here, to do significant active cooling on Venus' surface you need an actual nuclear reactor, which can be built using uranium. Look up kilopower, it's as close to a solid state nuclear reactor as you can practically get, and as long as the reactor fuel element is hotter than the environment it will generate power. If you can generate power you can run a refrigeration cycle or peltier effect cooler and with an insulated box you can keep a pocket of relative cold nestled inside the probe. In that box is where you stuff all the temperature sensitive circuits.

As for ruining seismic data, if wind on Mars was enough to fuck the Viking seismometers then wind on Venus will absolutely do the same. You're going to need to put your seismometer on the ground directly and put a nice windshield dome overtop no matter what, just like the Mars Insight probe did, with the added little complication of having to have all the actual sensor electronicss and stuff packed inside the cold box in the main probe, while the hardware that translates the vibrations into electrical signals being 'dumb' components (weights on peisoelectric flexors with wires attached sending analog signals to the cold box).

>>10906810
The maximum pressure on Venus is equivalent to going about one kilometer underwater on Earth. It's really not a big deal for a machine. The same is true of the acid, not a real issue for unmanned missions. The hard part of a Venus surface mission is 100% heat related, even entry descent and landing isn't hard (America once accidentally soft-landed a probe on the surface that was not even designed to be able to do so, however it still only lasted a few minutes before the heat got to it).

>>10906814
it's because they're brainlets who think a survivable outside pressure range and close-to-Earth gravity is an amazing advantage when in reality it's a siren's song to lure them into wasting effort trying to develop a self sustaining civilization in a total resource desert that will still kill them horribly anyway if any minor thing goes wrong. Earthlike gravity is actually a disadvantage at this point because it means having to claw your way out of a deep gravity well in both directions, going to Venus from Earth or vice versa. Even if Venus had a more Earthlike surface, with only a couple atmospheres of pressure and only a dozen or so degrees higher average surface temperature, this giant gravitational disadvantage would still be there and would hamstring colonization efforts severely (you'd need Saturn V sized rockets just to send single-digit headcount crews from one planet to another, good luck doing multistage reusable launch vehicles on an alien planet with ISRU propellant). In reality though the situation is far worse because you'd need to send nearly all building materials from Earth, you'd have to harvest trace gasses from the air in order to get the feed-stock necessary to manufacture propellants (unless you are considering an oxygen-carbon monoxide rocket, in which case hope the CO doesn't detonate into CO2 and carbon dust I guess), everything you build needs to be able to float (and breathable air is only a MARGINAL lifting gas on Venus, akin to neon on Earth, in real life we'd use hydrogen and would still need very big balloons), your EDL vehicles need to transition into lighter than air vehicles or into airplanes as they descend, basically it's a total nightmare scenario and could only be made worse if Venus had even more gravity than it already has.

>>10907429
>>10907439
>try to aim a probe for the peak of Maxwell Montes because it has the most benign surface conditions on the planet
>it's a fucking active volcano
>probe dies on impact with high-sulfur-content basaltic lava lake

>>10907487
>It's much harder to make something that contains pressure than something that's under pressure.
Actually that's the opposite of the truth, to contain pressure you're relying on tension forces which are stable, meaning any dent or bend will tend to be smoothed back out. Trying to hold a volume of low pressure in a high pressure environment is very hard, because you're relying on compression forces which are unstable; any dent or bend will tend to become MORE dented or bent by the pressure, not less, meaning overall you need a much stronger vessel for the same pressure differential. The Trieste deep sea submarine for example had a pressure sphere made of two forged steel hemispheres with 5 inch thick walls.

>>10908277
Sure, are you going to wait 30 years for a hohmann transfer or are you going to send a 200 kg payload there on a faster trajectory?

>>10908299
It'd probably get a thicker atmosphere with more water vapor content, which would warm it up even more.

>>10908309
I hope they do anon, those SiC chips would make any missioj to any place in the solar system a lot easier.

>>10908299
besides altering the gravitational balance of the solar system?
the impacts would probably just heat the planet more.
then any water that did manage to make it to the surface would just evaporate and make the atmosphere even thicker.

some debris would probably also hit earth as a bonus.

>>10908391
welp thats a problem.
lets discard going to uranus then.
even sendind a probe there may be too much to ask for.

>>10908401
>besides altering the gravitational balance of the solar system?
The asteroids have no effect on anything in terms of gravity, the total mass of every asteroid combined is about 4% of that of our Moon.

I wonder if we will see this first after we send a probe to venus...

>>10908407
Sending anything large is out of the question but with current tech we could certainly send something there on a ~10 year trajectory that'd weigh a few tons or so, like a decently sized Cassini-style orbiter. I'm gonna do some figuring here.

Falcon Heavy can do 63,800 kg to LEO. I want a 3000 kg probe (~half Cassini mass). That leaves 60,800 kg for a transfer stage. I'm going to assume a mass ratio of 85% propellant in that stage, and that it's using methalox (90% would be very doable for methalox but I'm including extra insulation to let us store those cryogenic propellants indefinitely so we aren't stuck with hypergolics). That gives us a total dry mass of [60,800 - (0.85*60,800)] 9120kg. Since we're using a methalox engine and we can give it a nice big nozzle I'm going to figure it has an Isp of 370 (less than Raptor Vacuum because lower chamber pressure but not that much less because BIG expansion ratio). This transfer stage will get the probe a delta v of 7058.38 m/s. That's enough to get the probe onto a trajectory on which it will encounter Jupiter for a gravity assist, plus a few hundred meters per second for course corrections in deep space. That gravity assist puts the probe on an escape trajectory from the solar system, during which it will encounter Uranus.

The probe itself is unlike Cassini in a couple ways. First off, it doesn't use an RTG for power, it uses a Kilopower nuclear reactor, which outputs much more energy. Second, it doesn't use chemical propulsion, is has ion thrusters (more than one for redundancy purposes). This gives the probe far more delta v than Cassini despite having a lower propellant mass. The probe has 1000 kg of xenon propellant and an ion thruster that gets 4000 Isp, giving the probe a total delta v budget of 15,905.02 m/s, which should be more than enough to slow down during the approach to Uranus and end up captured in a stable orbit around the planet.

>>10908462
you know...why don't we send multiple small probes and a la voyager 1 we use the planets gravity to impulse them?
first we use the earth, then venus, then the earth again, then mars or jupiter, then saturn, finally when get there it will not habe been long and we'll have a swarm watching the planet and monitoring it 24/7 for years.

I HEAR THERE'S A HOLY YELLOW SKY
JUST BE SURE TO CLOSE YOUR EYES
OUTSIDE AIR WILL BRING YOU DEATH
JUST BE SURE TO HOLD YOUR BREATH
https://youtu.be/jHuzgE59DCw

>>10908703
you mean going out in a special suit.
something similar to this.
like a mix between firefighter suit and a hazmat suit.

>>10908419
Is that the episode where ayys trying to invade get btfo by the ayys that have already invaded in secret?

>>10908869
those are lyrics to a song, I do not advise you actually try to survive on Venus by "holding your breath"

>>10908462
Perfect.
Now...what will we get out of studying uranus? if it had a earth sized moon we may have an actual reason to go there and live in caves or something.
Its pointless in a way to visit uranus and study its properties in deep.

>>10907429
>>10907439
what about building a tower on the top of maxwell montes? a babel tower that pierces the very heavens using the excess of CO2 and recycle it in order to make solid and dense carbon "blocks".
we make a hexagonal giant tower and use the lack of gravity to our advantage, we have just enough space to make a mega structure firm enough that will reach the 50km in height and using the very maxwell mountain as a base should suffice.
853km long and 700km wide, just enough for the mega-structure to take place.
the top of the tower will allow you to actually land on the planet and be the ideal place to become a capital.
if the flying cities are sucessful to sustain themselves, it will be possible to build this marvel of engineering.
it will be a perfect beginning and way to safely go to the venusian land.

Bump

What does it take to be a Navy Seal?

>>10910793
not being like you would be an actual good start.

>>10909873
if we make it hard and sturdy enough...it could work
the pressure could help the structure be held in its place and if it is perfect enough we could take pointers from angkor wat design and apply it to the giant structure we could have a plataform to stand on venus and actually reach the true surface more easily

>>10908964
>what will we get out of studying Uranus?
Uranus is the smallest planet in the solar system that has a significant amount of deuterium and helium 3 in its atmosphere. It's also the closest thing to a super-earth planet, and its magnetosphere is generated in a way most likely to be analogous to that of a waterworld. Uranus is our best chance to learn more about the most common kind of planet in the universe, and in the future is our best option when it comes to sourcing and supplying ourselves with effectively unlimited amounts of fusion fuel, and aneutronic fuel at that. Basically, if we ever colonize the solar system, Uranus will likely become a hub of activity in the outer solar system, and almost certainly serve as our interstellar spaceport, with large ships constructed in the asteroid belt being moved there with less efficient propulsion to be filed with millions of tons of deuterium and helium 3 before they light their candles and scoot off up to several percent of light speed.
so basically, fuck you

>>10902227
Clockwork?

>>10911687
the only use I would see to sent of a clockwork to venus would be to know how distance can affect time in other planets.

>>10906814
It's been a dream in the minds of scifi authors since the 1800s at least. There was a time when people thought that a race of "Venutians" actually lived there already.

>>10912422
I really wish venus could inspire people again, also I think cytherean fit them better than venusian.
or also that there were 2 races in fiction, cythereans and venusians, it will be like neanderthals and humans.
but both races just interact like if they were visiting another country with different people.

>>10902150
Terraforming Venus!

>>10903198
Bioshock Infinite

>>10913904
jesus christ what is happening to venus
which way is the wind blowing?!

>>10913920
>which way is the wind blowing?!

Only time knows

>>10913904
to do that we would need a lot of power and technology, mercury is a great candidate to get the material.

>>10913920
The days on venus are longer than their years.

>>10908873
yes.
the old twilight zone was a great show and that episode is underrated.

>>10903173
Reminder you could colonize the Sahara with desalination plants and some pipes and dirt shipments for 1/100th of the cost

>>10908368
/thread
Maybe... I suck your dick?

why is it so diffucult to split co2 into carbon and o2? Isn't it possible to do some sort of nuclear shit or solar powered so you arent just making more smoke?

>>10905305
I know fren, I know

>>10916435
Because it takes just as much energy to split CO2 as you get by burning C in and O2 atmosphere. Had it been easier you would have violated laws of thermodynamics.

>>10918319
...but you still have a product then.
okay lets use our favorite meme of a energy source, solar energy.
solar on venus is x4 greater than on earth, that means you can actually use solar energy there as a perfect source of emergency energy and the type of energy you would use on menial stuff.
but you can also do whats only possible on atacama desert, sahara desert and mongolian desert.
an actual solar power plant.
so you use the solar power plant to get the energy to constantly split CO2 to get a constant flow of fresh oxigen and a heavy load of carbon.
since a venusian day is longer than its year then that means we can actually use solar power as a reliable source of energy to split CO2.

>>10918319
>>10919448
i wonder if we can do this >>10909873
with the extra carbon
slowly but surely building a giant skycrapper that will withstand the hellish conditions and make ground to step on venus

>>10915379
kiss kiss

Venus > Mars

>>10922435
There will be a militaristic land-grabbing empire with socialist tendencies in Aphrodite, while in the islands of the Kawelu Sea there will be several smaller nations with developed capitalist economies, democratic in name, but run by big business oligarchy in practice.

>>10922493
if venus and mars were swapped back then, I could see a snowball venus now but way too cold to sustain any lifeform.
even with its rotation, venus would be a desertic ice land ready for colonization but I wonder if we could survive such conditions then...if that wasn't enough I bet the storms there could kill any terran life form.
but that wasn't what happened.
now we to use mercury and launch shades at venus to cool it off.

>>10922493
I wonder if they'll bother with a tower of babel there and if the venusians will have internet.

>>10914199
Why does it rotate so slow?

>>10916435
Good thing solar flux is quite high around there.

>>10922732
nobody actually knows the reason.
thats why they want to send a probe to analyze the seismic activity on venus

>>10922732
By chance

>>10902268
I dig it.
I really wish for zeppelins to make a return.
even if it is a temporal place to live on venus, I'll be satisfied and proud.

>>10902338
a sphere of titanium filled with nitrogen can float 5 km above the surface:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110016033.pdf
aaaaaaand withstand reentry directly.

>>10909873
HELL NO!
>>lack of gravity
it's almost earth gravity!
>>50 km high
good luck building a 50 km high tower under high heat, that has to deal with VERY STRONG winds, and even sulfuric acid

>>10925253
what if we just used the carbon and sulfur extracted from the atmosphere and make stones from it, then do what humans do best and throw them somewhere in a pile of trash.
we could literally make a mountain of trash in a year so if we regularly dropped in maxwell montes, with time I bet we can make a big enough pile of molten rock and trash to be at 50km.

>>10902268
The pressure on Venus is such that it will be more of a submarine than a Zeppelin

>>10925463
Fuck Venus man

>>10923444
>they want
It's one guy and quite old now. Venusian expertise, admittedly stuck in the 80's for obvious reasons, will be gone with him real soon.

>>10902227
>wind powered clockwork rover that communicates via morse code
The steampunk inside my soul released his spunk all over this concept

>>10925463
above 50km above the ground, venus have a pressure and conditions that are almost earth like.
the temperature there ranges from 75°C to 30°C.
at 52km above the venusian surface you have a 30°C enviroment where you can thrive if you have a special zeppelin.

>>10925602
lets do it.

>>10925608
I'm not the other guy but the most interesting aspect of Venus is its surface, not its atmosphere.

To other, I'll say the same I tell Mars Terraformer, Colonizing other planet is going to be a wasteful luxury done long after we've colonized asteroid belt with automated robot to bring the resources to our orbital paradise.
By the time we have the tech to colonize Venus, we will probably have digitalized our mind, created reality-level simulation as household and look for habitat in therm of energy efficiency.

>>10925628
>I'm not the other guy but the most interesting aspect of Venus is its surface, not its atmosphere.
wrong, both are interesting since the atmosphere of venus had shown inexplicable phenomenons that require study and would have been possible to explain and study through a weather zeppelin.
besides we could have a perfect chance to use rigid aircrafts in order to make land missions easier.
>To other, I'll say the same I tell Mars Terraformer, Colonizing other planet is going to be a wasteful luxury done long after we've colonized asteroid belt with automated robot to bring the resources to our orbital paradise.
yeah but we have to start with something, like the damn moons of mars to have a better insight in how to proceed our conquest of the asteroid belt.
>By the time we have the tech to colonize Venus, we will probably have digitalized our mind, created reality-level simulation as household and look for habitat in therm of energy efficiency.
I'll give you that one.
but I still believe we should put zeppelins and probes on venus first, to make shit a lot easier for when that happens.
who knows? maybe by doing that we actually could get to have the luxury of colonizing venus long before we map our brains.

>>10922732
Possibly was struck by a protoplanet, as Earth and Mars have nearly the same day length, indicating that Venus is the weird one (Mercury was slowed down by Sun's tidal forces).

>>10926024
you just want zeppelins to be a thing again and travel in a hindenburg, aren't you?

>>10927911
>911
what a good sign

>>10905303

I have friend of a friend named Jovian. The first time I met him, I said "oh cool, like a person from Jupiter?"

And he responded that this was the first time anyone had ever said that to him.

>>10928200
>I have friend of a friend named Jovian. The first time I met him, I said "oh cool, like a person from Jupiter?"
>And he responded that this was the first time anyone had ever said that to him.
huh...neat.
and what became of him?

>>10926024
Making a Zeppelin Crane capable of reaching the ground from the safes altitude would be extraordinary prowess, even without landing anything.
I'd go with your idea only because we can't say no to a long endurance floating probes with sensor to look down.

>yeah but we have to start with something, like the damn moons of mars to have a better insight in how to proceed our conquest of the asteroid belt.
Colonizing Mars' moon is the only concession I'd do, because it make their orbit regular if we decide do go very slow and not divert asteroid.
Other than that, starting with an asteroid is better than any surface mission on Mars and probably a requirement.
There is Near Earth Object closer than Mars to train before making a mess of Phoebe and waiting 1 years for good windows.

>>10902158
>>10902222
>>/pol/

>>10928477
>we can't say no to a long endurance floating probes with sensor to look down.
there are enough resources and technology to even crane down a land probe from high altitudes.

>>10928768
After traveling to Venus on a budget?
Not gonna happen before we have a fleet of space tether

>>10928477
a zeppelin crane is borderline impossible. We have carbon fibers with breaking lengths on the order of 200 km. This is greater than the 55 km height, but due to the wind the cable can't go straight down, meaning we could be quite close to the breaking length!

>>10906814
Musk and Trump (unironic Space Force) have brought hope back to the public imagination. First time in our lifetimes if you're not a boomer.

>>10902150
s

>>10928477
a zeppelin crane is borderline impossible. We have carbon fibers with breaking lengths on the order of 200 km. This is greater than the 55 km height, but due to the wind the cable can't go straight down, meaning we could be quite close to the breaking length!

>>10902150
e

>>10929064
what if we used a harpoon?
we redesign and reinvent the harpoon.

>>10929028
Both are just attention seeker, what they are doing is all shine no substance.
As for hope? As things go we are going straight for a dystopic plutocracy that will make Elysium look like a documentary

>>10929734
we will get kek'd

>>10906814
desu I would love to go to another planet and see the differences

>>10930138
Well, you'd be able to see that every other planet in our system is a complete shithole. And you'd enjoy living in what amounts to a coffin for the privilege.

>>10930572
indeed it is
if its not the land then its the people
I wonder if we'll learn a valuable lesson

>>10928480
I would literally kill you if I could you fucking cancer

>>10930707
An interesting thing to consider is that colonization of other planets carries a (probably unintentional) eugenic component. The majority of colonists for the foreseeable future will be the smartest, fittest, healthiest, most determined, and most fearless people humanity has to offer. Cletus and Jamal won't be landing off-planet any time soon. The colonist population, after a few generations, will still be composed of significantly above-average individuals, whereas our own planet is engaging in a dysgenic race to the bottom thanks to the welfare state.

Colonists may still be complete cunts, but at least they'll be Ubermensch cunts.

>>10925608
How would you thrive choking on gas all day with no sunlight to grow food?

>>10930782
>How would you thrive choking on gas all day with no sunlight to grow food?
you really think that the aircraft won't have special mirrors?...and that I won't have food there?.
you can literally bring plants from earth and have a small garden inside or mere resources.
in fact, it'll be the size of the hindenburg, the aircraft of course so it can have the ideal size.

>>10930782
>>10931482
before you ask what I mean with ideal size.
its obvious, you can have a perfect size to last long on venus if you have a hindenburg sized zeppelin coated with teflon.
it has enough space to supply you for weeks, maybe months if you brough with you a small farm where you can harvest food inside the ship.

BUMP

>>10913904
where u get the water from?

>>10932007
water store

>>10908869
>Honxihome furnishing
Is that what you have to wear to go outside in china nowadays?

>>10932871
Yes.

>>10905187
yes it'll be dangerous and have risks, but it's a risk we should be willing to take

>>10906814
I was always more interested in Venus on the bases of actually being the same size of earth, hearing that the upper atmosphere above the clouds was all but ideal conditions settled it for me

>>10932584
Thank you, free market

>>10908295
I mean does it really matter to much where it gets blown around, initially we'd only really care that the ships are up in the air and stable, just exploring where's it's able instead of specific exporation sounds just fine since it would be a long term exploration anyway

>>10906814
the coolest thing about floating cities is that it solves one of the big problems on venus which is super long days, if you are constantly moving against the sun then you are able to make the days as long as you want

>>10907398
of course there's value in studying the surface but your putting the cart before the horse, if we can't study the surface yet we'll gradually make our way their by a least placing ships above the surface and see what we can learn that way as we figure out how to get to the surface, baby steps man

>>10908368
it is an amazing advantage, comparitivley, we don't exactly have a ton of options, the fact the a planet the directly neighbors us isn't just completely fucked in size and atmosphere above and below and gives us a chance to visit it to some degree should be taken advantage of

>>10933808
The least cool thing is that you'd be living on top of shitty fucking venus in a tin can. I mean, it's not a whole lot worse than Mars in many ways, but that's not exactly a high standard.

>>10933819
Like Mars would be any different in the beginning, any planet we go to in the beginning we're compleley at the Mercy of tin cans to keep us alive and the risks are innumerable on Mars or Venus, honestly just being in a state of flying above instant death and hoping you stay afloat isn't that much of a degree more dangerous than hoping your base on Mars doesn't fail.

>>10922493
there's no way an Empire on a neighboring planet will come about that isn't just an extension of a pre-existing Earth nation, at least for the first several generations

>>10922553
We could also use the airship to set up giant tubes that suck out all the gas and launch it into space

>>10933822
Exactly. They're all miserable shitholes.

>>10910793
Top 0.1% of athletes, physical and mental.

>>10933830
Indeed.
we could use venus to ship deuterium.

>>10934018
What does it take to even get there if you’re not the most athletic?

>>10934031
steroids and good luck.
if you somehow balance it, both muscle and stamina, you could technically get a perfect body to enter.
you need a good resistance, a proper growth and diet.
with steroids you should cultivate your muscles.
all of this will take you a year but if you did it right and managed to stay determined and disciplined you'll get in.

>>10908271
>Implying it isn't the best candidate for outer solar system Helium-3 mining

>>10934143
won't that be jupiter?
or the great jovian doesn't have the right ingredients?

>>10934143
As I understand it the trouble with Jupiter and to a lesser extent Saturn is that it's deeper gravity well and strong magnetosphere pose some notable practical challenges for atmospheric He-3 mining. Uranus is the better candidate as any atmospheric mining rigs would require far less delta-V to leave the planet thus making more sense from an economical standpoint.

>>10934211
can't argue with that.
but somehow uranus seems way too far to be a viable source of energy.
I bet they will all fall for the titan meme.

>>10914199
if the years are so long that means we can expand the human life span, since we will age slower, why dont we hurry up and get to venus, then maybe we could live to be 1000s of years old

>>10930712
You mad bro?

>>10934158
>>10934219
>>10934211
If we're mining helium 3, we're doing it because we have fusion, and if we have fusion propulsion getting from the inner solar system out to Uranus is pretty trivial (at least from a delta v standpoint). Fusion, especially aneutronic fusion like what He-3 would let us do, doesn't just make colonization of the entire solar system viable, it unlocks human-lifetime-scale interstellar transportation.

The biggest problem with mining Uranus for He-3 is not getting to the planet, it's getting the He-3 in the atmosphere back up into orbit. It MAY be possible that some kind of nuclear thermal propulsion system could be developed that would allow 'skimmers' to maintain ultra-low orbits for weeks on end as they scoop up rarefied upper atmosphere gasses and compress them, separating out the useful fusion fuel stuff and dumping the rest, until they're full and they can boost themselves back up into a stable orbit to drop off their cargo, but that method would be slow and very marginal at best. On the other end of the spectrum, we could possibly build an orbital ring structure and hang gas harvesters from it, which would be at rest with respect to the atmosphere of the planet, and have elevators climb the couple hundred kilometers up to the orbital ring, drop off their canned He-3 gas product, and then the fuel could be accelerated electromagnetically along the orbital ring until it could be let go and lobbed on an elliptical orbit taking it away form the planet. That'd require megastructure engineering, but it'd allow for huge amounts of gas to be collected and transported, and it wouldn't require those extremely marginal skimmer vehicles I mentioned.

>>10905187
>What is operating at a slightly positive pressure

Your air will slowly leak out and you may lose a few feet in altitude while you isolate the leak.

Also by that time you should have self-healing materials.

>>10935716
not only self-healing materials but also detectors that will immediatly warn you about a possible leak.
also a teflon coated hindenburg sized zeppelin on venus would last a month or 2, if you only have 2 people living inside.

>>10935700
Wouldn't say a 'floater' type arrangement also be a viable method of atmospheric mining? Say some sort of craft with a deployable balloon allowing it to remain either neutrally buoyant (or at least requiring minimum fuel expenditure to remain at altitude). This could allow you to play around in the denser parts of the atmosphere thereby making He-3 extraction more efficient, then all you'd need is an additional rocket arrangement so that the harvested He-3 could be transported from the planet and sold for whopping great wads of dosh which could then be used to fund the next generation of He-3 miners.

>>10933812
tell that to the Planetary Science Decadal Survey committee. The best chance at a Venus mission this decade is a surface mission.

Why are people thinking we can launch some sort of aircraft towards Venus currently? We'd need to get a moonbase or a reliable means of assembling a rocket in orbit to send such a large probe

>>10936277
>We'd need to get a moonbase or a reliable means of assembling a rocket in orbit to send such a large probe
the hindenburg sized aircraft is for the 2 astronauts who will do the 1st manned mission to venus...
the probe that we will send first will be the size of a chair or yoga ball, maybe even the size of a basketball.

>>10936277
The probes Russia sent there a long ass time ago were probes dangling from balloons

>>10902461
William S Burroughs already wrote about exploring Venus. Bumping for no reason.

>>10936268
fucking why

>>10902150
There should be a comic strip with Venus as an anime girl who looks really beautiful but each scene just shows that she is a real bitch.

>>10936277
I don't know what your saying we've had reliable means of assembling rockets and putting them into orbit since the soviet/usa space battle, I don't think we need to go out of our way to set such a lavish condition before we do the very basic task of setting up balloon ships on Venus to better understand the planet and gradually add more until going to Venus is considered easy to do. Yes a moonbase would be nice but saying absolutely no Venus until we have one is dumb.

>>10936371
Venus-chan a cute but she just has mega bad acme right now

>>10936375
>>10936371
venus chan is a sweet alien girl...
http://www.slide.world-three.org/series/oh_my_sweet_alien/

>>10936465
didn't expect a good manga
good find anon

>>10930736
>An interesting thing to consider is that colonization of other planets carries a (probably unintentional) eugenic component. The majority of colonists for the foreseeable future will be the smartest, fittest, healthiest, most determined, and most fearless people humanity has to offer. Cletus and Jamal won't be landing off-planet any time soon. The colonist population, after a few generations, will still be composed of significantly above-average individuals, whereas our own planet is engaging in a dysgenic race to the bottom thanks to the welfare state.
>Colonists may still be complete cunts, but at least they'll be Ubermensch cunts.
finally someone get the good thing of colonizing other worlds.

>>10937382
It's not true at all. Rich people won't move to a wasteland. It will be fringe political groups, religious fanatics, criminals.....etc. Just like the groups that populated America.

>>10937406
don't forget the family wars too.

>>10936307
I support this, send a weather balloon to venus.
we will have a closer look at the atmosphere and surface.

>>10936370
not enough science return for the limited planetary science budget. NASA funded a helicopter to titan recently. Although they did fund some tech development for analyzing rocks for a surface venusian mission.

>>10937406
>It will be fringe political groups, religious fanatics, criminals
Yeah, look at all these fanatics and criminals.