/sci/ - Science & Math

The polar ice caps will fully melt next year and EVERYONE WILL DIE unless you buy organic basedmilk RIGHT NOW.

>>10890616
>"research" funds running low
>do some more fearmongering
>???
>PROFIT

>>10890616
Scientific informations in mainstream media are and always are bullshit.

They are retarded who speak to retarded.

>>10890616
Buy now. Inland will be expensive as fuck when >>10890621 happens.

>>10890635
>>10890646
Just what I thought. Even from my rudimentary knowledge of climate science I know that it's a too fucking complicated field with many unknown variables to make such claims. It may very well do more bad than good.

>>10890646
It's not even about mainstream media, this claim comes from a climate scientist, and that's the real issue.

>>10890621
>basedmilk
found the newfag

>>10890709
Sorry I meant unbased milk
And I haven't used this retarded site in 8 years bro.

>>10890684
>it's a too fucking complicated field with many unknown variables for me to accept such claims
>but I know what it may very well do

>>10890713
>I meant unbased milk
L0L

Do they literally train journalists to be like this, why do they serve the conclusion instead of letting the reader infer it.

>>10890616 If they mean to say we need to invest all our capacities of time and effort right now to prevent disasters and not just in a few years or so I think they're right. Otherwise those timespans are mostly speculation anyway. The biggest problem there are the feedback loops so it's better to err on the safe side and that's probably already over so you could also say it's 1 month. It doesn't matter. Just do what you can right now.

>>10890713
>milk based
there is no pus filled casein slurry that will ever be based

>>10890717
Nice reading comprehension, shit-for-brains.

>>10890890
>from my rudimentary shit-for-brains knowledge of climate science
...did I read it correctly that time?

>>10890616
ITT: OP complains about shitty journalist that doesn't understand science and uses that as justification to ignore actual scientists.

>>10890616
>We can hopefully all agree that climate change is real
The climate has always been changing.
>almost certainly man-influenced
That could mean anything, but sure.

But climate-alarmism has been going on for decades. Always remain skeptical. It's almost certainly bullshit meant to scare you into giving away more power to people who dont need it.

>>10890726
>t. Nig Nog

>>10890616
If the alarmists are right and we have 18 months only, its already too late. Literally nothing will change with that short a timespan.

Find a place far from any cities and start stockpiling food and supplies.

>>10890616
We most certainly have 18 months to come up with a plan and enact it, any plan later than that is most likely not going to save us. But it won't be that bad in 18 months, 2030 is still the point where shit's most likely to hit the fan.

>>10890946
>yummy surplus calories
t. skinnyfat+gyno but still lifts

>>10890956
>t. skinnyfat+gyno but still lifts
I'm sorry for you

>>10890965
i don't have gyno and im not skinnyfat, if I was I would kill myself

>>10890940
>The climate has always been changing.
Not like now.

I'd like to see some large governmental action to ditch fossil fuels, but it's just not going to happen. Hopefully the severe conditions in the next few decades will kill all the morons who believe climate change is a hoax.

>>10890621
>>10890635
>>10890646
>>10890656
>>10890684
>>10890690
>>10890709
>>10890713
>>10890717
>>10890719
>>10890724
>>10890726
>>10890890
>>10890905
>>10890914
>>10890940
>>10890946
>>10890951
>>10890954
>>10890956
>>10890965
>>10890983
>>10890996
>>10891005
/sci/ is dead. Nothing but brainlets here, utterly incapable of having any sort of discussion above a Dunning-Kruger know-nothing know-it-all level. Absolutely pathetic.

>>10890954
They've been ramping up the time frame since we pulled out of the Paris Accords, which is funny because the Paris Accords will have basically no impact anyway.

>>10892235
congratulations you made a retarded post using memes from reddit to make a gay faggy point about nothing anyone cares about, kys!

>>10892253
>gay
Why the homophobia?

>>10892253
>another retard post to add to the pile

>>10892254
the word has more than one meaning anon, maybe you could learn the vernacular of your people before being a petty prescriptivist pedant online?

>>10890616
It's like going down a stream with a rowboat.
A waterfall is ahead.
Once the stream moves faster than you can row, you're fucked - even if it takes 12 years to reach the waterfall.

>>10890616
The more media pushes this climate change alarmism the less I care about it. I used to sort my trash out, like plastic goes into recycling etc, tried to cut down on plastic packaging, etc now I just dont care, I fill up my car with diesel, throw shit into landfill waste, and just buy and consume like there is no tomorrow. I dont care, media can go fuck themselves. I hope global warming and all related consequences actually happen just to spite liberals and the msm

>>10890616
Who the fuck unironically read media??

If you're IQ is at least >120 you'll see how this shit is just a clickbait, media don't give a fuck about anything or any facts they just want to get you to panic so that you'd be retarded enough to visit their website/buy newspaper

Fucks sake it's year of the Lord 2019 and people are still retarded

>>10892395
You aren't reasonable, as evidenced by your idiotic decisions to pollute and consume to "own the libs." Very sad that there are adults like this.

>>10892395
Nice try but you were always filling your car up with diesel

>>10892411
Look here, Karen

Humans have almost no contribution to climate change and we can't do shit about it, it's Earth's natural cycle.

This fucking place started to sound like a pseudoscience plebbit

>>10892411
I tried to be reasonable and expected others to be reasonable too. No one actually cares, the rich cunts travel to climate summits using private jets and in the end come up with solutions like more africans in europe will solve all problems and whites should have less or no children to save the planet. And poor libs just support them and their policies. Nobody actually gives a shit about the planet and I am just one man alone, I have literally no power to do anything. So just let it all burn, put the planet out of its misery rather than let cancer like liberals to continue to survive.

>>10892417
I never owned a car until very recently. I have now an old open astra, that produces quite a lot of black smoke when I step on accelerator, way more than is legally allowed.

>>10892418
Look here, dipshit. Posting dishonest denialtard graphs that ignore and downplay the incontrovertible evidence of anthropogenic warming won't disprove it. Posting moronic graphs as a defense to the truly subhuman position of polluting to spite other people you disagree with is pathetic.

>>10892418
>no contribution
Humans are the only contributing factor, you lying shitstain retard

439-450= -11
332-338= -6
29-17= +12
Humans are the only contributing factor.

Around 450ppm/+2C the two 800 lbs gorillas turn from sinks to emitters.

https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php
#34

https://skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions-intermediate.htm

>>10892422
>no one actually cares, so I don't either
subhuman

>>10892422
You’re a lost cause. Don’t start a race war

>>10892425
If a person is dying of cancer but is refused treatment and literally no one cares (or people who do care have no power to offer treatment) then its best to let that person die quick painless death as not to cause anymore suffering.

>>10892428
Causing a race war is not an easy task.

>>10892424
Imagine being this retarded

>>10892235
It doesnt take much for some brainlet from other boards to look up science board and then make a poost there. Especially /pol/ ones.

>>10892478
>i have no argument

>>10892424
>skeptikalscience. Com
You're like those /pol/tards that source inforwars and similar shit

Kys

>>10892395

This guy may be of some interest to you, whether you agree entirely, partly or not at all.

http://www.penttilinkola.com/pentti_linkola/ecofascism/

>>10892740
I dont know.. Most of what he is proposing is dumb and unnecessary, except the need to reduce population and eugenics. Not really original ideas of his own so he is irrelevant

>>10890616
>We can hopefully all agree that climate change is real and almost certainly man-influenced, but 18 months? What do you think, /sci/? Is there any truth to this alarmist-sounding prediction?
Whenever media creates alarm like this, it is political. They are trying to create panic in the population so that it will vote a certain way or approve of something otherwise undesirable. So the question is, what happens in 12-18 months? What are politicians scheming?

>>10890709
fuck off, you're the real newfag, genuine oldfags have made peace with the basedboy filter years ago

>>10892411
>You aren't reasonable, as evidenced by your idiotic decisions to pollute and consume to "own the libs." Very sad that there are adults like this.
You let emotions cloud your ability to understand others. The man you replied to was specifically telling you that he doesn't like to be manipulated by the media. If you care about the planet, then you need to address the fact that our media is using fear to manipulate people over the climate.

>>10892808
>you need to address that the media is telling the truth about climate change!
Uuhhhhhhh

>>10892688
>i have no argument

>>10890621
>>10890635
>>10890646

fuck WE GONNA DIE in 18 months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>10892781
you got it.

>>10892418
>posting fake graphs that don't even have a fucking y axis
Do you actually enjoy making yourself look retarded or are you too fucking retarded to know how these sort of posts make you look?

>>10892890
no, but it will be a point of no return

>>10892986
What is this? Point of no return #231?

>>10892890
I really wish that it was true.

3 pretty simple lemmas:

1. CO2 and many other gases have "greenhouse" properties in that they allow visible light to pass through (hence invisible), but trap and re-emit infrared radiation. This is literally 19th century science, first proposed by Joseph Fourier in 1824, verified and quantified experimentally beyond reasonable doubt by Svante Arrhenius.

2. CO2 in the atmosphere has been rising, and this is a result of fossil fuel combustion (pic related). CO2 can be measured experimentally in the lab, and the stable isotopes of CO2 plunges into the negative values. Fossil fuel has distinct negative isotopic signature compared to natural CO2. This is also an undeniable fact from observation.

3. You add 1+2, you would expect the radiative energy budget of the earth to be out of equilibrium. This is exactly what we observe, based on satellites that measures total energy in vs. energy out by CERES satellite at NASA. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/EnergyBalance/page6.php On average, only 71% of energy entering the Earth is leaving. 2nd law of thermodynamics and conservation of energy states that when a system had energy imbalance, T must go up.

In short, CO2 causes greenhouse effect. Humans put CO2 into the atmosphere through fossil fuel burning. The earth is now in energy imbalance due to additional CO2, and therefore warming. All basic, high school physics that should be easy to understand

>>10893015
You can easily manipulate data by multiplying the factors by 100

FAKE NEWS

>>10892975
Did you bother to look up things?

>>10893008
The physical PNR is 450ppm/+2C
at that point natural processes increase the amount of methane and co2 in the atmosphere - even if humans would disappear overnight, the warming continues.
Before that, the political PNR is around +1.5C, after that no international agreements to cooperate are not possible anymore, the sacrifices needed are politically impossible, politicians will just kick the can down the road to win the next elections. Tragedy of the commons.
The 18 months is roughly the time we have to avoid the political PNR.

>>10893015
don't bother with it anon, if they wanted to accept the scientific consensus they would have long ago.
its the same mindset as flat earth, complete denial, complete madness

>>10893015
yeah let's ignore the much more abundant water vapor

>>10893008
The physical PNR is 450ppm/+2C
At that point natural processes increase the amount of methane and co2 in the atmosphere - even if humans disappeared overnight, the warming continues.
Before that, the political PNR is around +1.5C, after that international agreements to cooperate aren't possible anymore, the sacrifices needed are politically impossible, politicians will just kick the can down the road to win the next elections. Tragedy of the commons.
The 18 months is roughly the time we have to avoid the political PNR.

>>10890616
oh noes

>>10893125
>oceans suddenly appeared in the '70s
hurrr durrr

>>10893126
This is incorrect. Natural processes increase methane and CO2 in the atmosphere as a response to anthropogenic warming regardless of how much CO2 is in the atmosphere. And 1.5C or 2C are just arbitrarily chosen points used to show the effects of certain amounts of warming.

>>10893134
>. Natural processes increase methane and CO2 in the atmosphere
nope, it's people >>10892424

>>10892418
What the fuck is the y axis based on?

>>10893125
Water vapor is a function of temperature and temperature only. It serves as a positive amplifier (feedback) mechanism, but is not a driver in global temperature. You cannot prevent water from evaporating as 70% of Earth's surface is ocean and you can't just put a lid over the whole ocean.

The small amount of radiative forcing from CO2 and other anthropogenic GHG (CH4, CO, N2O, etc) is amplified by water vapor, making each molecules of CO2 in the atmosphere more potent than just experimental observation under vacuum conditions.

>>10893134
>Natural processes increase methane and CO2 in the atmosphere as a response to anthropogenic warming regardless of how much CO2 is in the atmosphere
Yes this is correct. CO2 emitted from fossil fuel dissolve into the ocean and offgas out to the atmosphere at fairly rapid rate. But that doesn't mean CO2 offgassed from the ocean is natural, it is still coming from fossil fuel.

Warmer world = warmer precipitation, which enhances natural CH4 emissions from wetlands (which is the biggest natural emitter of CH4). However >50% of CH4 emissions today are anthropogenic, either from agriculture, waste (biomass rotting under anoxic conditions), cattle farming, and biomass burning (some biomass burning is also natural)

>>10890616
Climate change is not real, not man-made, and we need to make the holocaust actually happen. And let's not stop at 6 millions, and let's not use masturbation machines but something more efficient like human-sized chickpastemaker machines.

>>10890616
Nothing "alarmist" about it. It's not saying the world will end in 18 months. It's saying the world will be set on a bad course within 18 months.

>>10893195
>Warmer world = warmer precipitation
I meant warmer world = more precipitation duh. Sorry for the typo

>>10893089
>hoping that people won't notice that I'm conflating the local "central England" bump with global (or at least Northern Hemisphere) temperature.
In reality, you're seeing a relatively steady temperature for the last 1000 years and a sharp rise in the last 150, just what you'd expect if we are causing changes with industrial activity.
So that leaves the question: are you a liar or just a fucking retard who can't interpret the graphs he posts?

>global warming in a capitalistic world
>please produce and consume less
>NO MUH PROFITS THO
>dude we're all going to die
>FUCKING COMMIE

>>10893141
That doesn't respond to what I said. Warming due to human CO2 emissions increases the natural process of CO2 evaporation from the oceans, regardless of whether we are above or below 450 ppm.

>>10893084
Or you can plot the data yourself
https://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/antarctica/law/law2018d13c-co2.txt

>>10893230
>Warming due to human CO2 emissions increases the natural process of CO2 evaporation from the oceans
CO2 doesn't evaporate out of the ocean.
CO2 in the atmosphere EQUILIBRATE with the ocean just like CO2 in your coke (which is supersaturated) offgas to the air and your coke becomes flat. The net effect of increasing atm CO2 is actually increasing the ocean sink, and results in ocean acidification. More CO2 in the ocean-atmosphere system also results in more ocean outgassing, as the flux number in >>10892424 figure would get larger but so is the sink, because the ocean atmosphere system will always try to equilibrate

The socialists will screw us all. As they use watermelon politics to further their quest to bring down liberal democratic capitalism.

>>10893244
>socialists will screw us
What do you mean by "us", Peasant?

>>10893310
Have you seen proposals? Its all about muh oppression and social justice. With scant few token positions for actual experts in energy and climate.

>>10892399
Dunning Kruger

>>10893195
>But that doesn't mean CO2 offgassed from the ocean is natural, it is still coming from fossil fuel.
Yes, I understand. I was echoing the language in the post I was replying to which called outgassing a natural process.

>>10892418
>Look here, Karen
>Humans have almost no contribution to climate change and we can't do shit about it, it's Earth's natural cycle.
>This fucking place started to sound like a pseudoscience plebbit
The problem you have is rooted in some basic misunderstandings. First one:
You appear to use visual information to learn and rationalize. This is a mistake in the context of something like climate change because it's easy to get lost in the visuals and miss the important underpinnings and theory. You could correct your misunderstanding here by consulting primary literature through literature reviews and metastudies. Those are good introductory points if you care to dig into the specifics of climate change.
Next is math. You seem to not appreciate the numbers we're dealing with when we talk about CO2 and the human production. Most people don't understand just how much it is. We put more carbon into the air than the amount that ALL volcanoes on earth put into it each year. It isn't being removed fast enough to compensate. Hence why more forests and algae are needed to pull it out of the air. Hence why carbon reclamation technology is being commercialized. Our emissions are an imbalance which isn't naturally correcting itself.
>>10892422
We live in a situation where a clear and present danger to us exists, which most people could be persuaded to do something about, and yet it is being used as a means to undermine social trust and centralize power. In other words we have treacherous individuals risking calamity and extinction for the sake of petty agendas. It's tragic.
>>10892423
You are the reason the planet is doomed. You care more about being right and taking out your anger on others than actually solving a life-threatening problem. You did not persuade a single person by calling someone a denialtard or dipshit. You only polarized more people against you. You are the reason we're fucked and you are too egocentric to see it.

the apocalypse will happen because you drove some cars around, it's literally your fault. yes, you, the reader.

>>10893126
yeah I definitely believe you this time. this time is the one. believe me. Jesus is gonna come back next ye- sorry I mean the world will end from fossil fuels

>>10894414
>this time
lrn2read

>>10893328
>Have you seen proposals?
L0Lno fgt pls

>>10890616

The reality is that there isn't a consensus about how long we have to save ourselves from catastrophe, & as such, every claim about how long we have left should be considered sceptically.

>>10892422
You are the literal example of the resentful, spiteful, absolute waste of a human that is putting us on an unstoppable dead spiral. Do us all a favor and just check out from life on your own while we try to acrually do something about it.

>>10892688
>A reliable source specifically detailed and explained to denialist disinfo is bad to dispel the same old dozen arguments thrown around mindlessly in the site
You are one of those idiots who thinks everything life is just a 50/50 coin toss aren't you.

Reminder that Russia will profit tremendously from man-made global warming by utilizing new trade routes that emerge as the ice barricading their coast disappears. Also I hear something about permafrost? That's probably good for them too.

>>10895342
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbrKLnh8wLA

>>10890616
We can influence the climate but not to the proportions "Climate Scientists" would like to show
The world is too fucking huge for us to have irreversible consequences
The closest thing we have so far is Chernobyl and that shit was already habitable under a half century

>>10895401
What about all the species humanity has driven to extinction? What about the destruction of the rainforests? The ozone layer?

>>10895401
Mmhmm and mutations can't cause speciation, there is only microevolution within kinds.

Oh and the Earth is flat.

>>10895342
So we can get USSR 2.0?
I love communism

>search India China or third world
>0 results
Where is /pol/

>>10895468
They're hopeless. America must lead the way for everyone else.

>>10895474
America doesn't even know that it's happening and they'll never agree to it.

>>10890616
The deadlines get shorter as people's iq drops lmao. In 18 months no one will even remember this stupid headline. Just keep the goy cattle in their hysteria over the weather for eternity so they don't get any real ideas.

>>10895148
You doing something about it? All you have done is polarize people against believing you, and actively harm the case that climate change is a threat.
People like you are the worst enemies of humanity because you poison the well, incite distrust.

>>10890616
So can we denuclearize the enegy grid now?

>>10895148
What are you acrually doing? Being a fag?

>>10890616
I honestly don't think there is a way this can end well....
Those who practice sustainability are at a competitive disadvantage to those who do not.
collapse incoming

>>10893338
You work for IFLS?

>>10895949
>those who do not practice sustainability
fall into 1 of 3 categories
1) completely retarded
2) willing to rationalize their actions with a complex set of delusional excuses
3) totally evil

I think the bulk of them fall into categories 1 and 2. Ironic that these types of people have a competitive advantage over those who are substantially more intelligent. Its somewhat similar to preferring cheap shots to fair play, or being a sucker puncher/deceiver or a thief.

>>10895967
>those who do not practice sustainability
It's gotten to the point now where >95% of the human population is in this camp. That is pretty much malignant incurable cancer. The Earth is now riddled with it, and it's beyond terminal.

>>10890621
if anyone is wondering, organic milk is worse for the environment than normal milk

https://realclimatescience.com/

Thoughts?

>>10890616
An inexperienced 16 year old girl personally told me this with no scientific paper to back up the claim so I'm convinced it's true.

>>10894414
Your belief is not rational, because you deny verifiable empirical facts that add up to a conclusion you don't like. Rather than accept a harsh truth, you project that others advocating for it are: fanatical, religious, a doomsday cult, hyperbolic (with an incredible amount of irony), or just plain crazy. But again, you have to reject verifiable empirical facts to justify your position, so you are not the reasonable one, no matter how much you pretend to be.

>>10896198
Regardless of what Greta Thunberg, her handlers, or the political and media institutions giving her a platform are doing, this evidence does exist, and many climatology experts have expended a great deal of effort collecting, analyzing, and presenting that evidence. Your ignorance of those facts is not justification for rejecting the conclusion.

>>10896188
Any idiot can make a website and claim that they have the "real" answer to a scientific question they aren't qualified to answer.

>>10896227
I was merely making a terrible joke spanning from my dislike for the child, don't take things so literal.

>>10896249
>i was only pretending to be stupid
every retard ever

>>10894062
>You are the reason the planet is doomed. You care more about being right and taking out your anger on others than actually solving a life-threatening problem. You did not persuade a single person by calling someone a denialtard or dipshit. You only polarized more people against you. You are the reason we're fucked and you are too egocentric to see it.
The denialist shills here aren't interested in being convinced. They're only interested in astroturfing their lies. Of course I care about solving the problem. Taking a soft, understanding approach to denialist rhetoric will only cause them to use it against you.

The reason we are fucked is because of political inaction, which probably has a lot to do with denialists spreading their lies and convincing people that the science is illegitimate when it's not.

>>10895991
No, it's not. You're just defining "organic" and "non-organic" poorly and stretching both definitions to meet some poor data that applies to such a small subset of actual dairy farms that it has no real implications for the over all industry.

Yes, a standard dairy farm CAN be "better for the environment" or however you want to define that than an organic dairy farm operation, but there's so much variability in both types of operation that saying some general statement given such a poor amount of data is inane and meaningless.

Hell, the entire concept of "organic" itself is just a checklist guideline that isn't even all that hard for a farm to hit and still not bother with sustainability.

>>10896261
I think most people know the science is solid, and that climate change is a problem. What they disagree with iare the "solutions" being proposed, especially as they watch development go on unhindered, and population exploding - both actions being encouraged by government. That seems to contradict the notion that government is interested in preventing climate change..

>>10896261
>The reason we are fucked is because of political inaction

Political inaction reflects general public inaction. Most people simply don't want to make any sacrifices, and the politics reflect that. Too many people want to sit back and wait for the government to wave its wand and change everything without making any individual life changes. Yeah, it would help, but most people are still feeding the wrong businesses, putting little to no thought in recycling and waste removal, don't care if they leave the lights or the TV on and waste energy, and simply don't want to move away from a gasoline-based transportation system all while using an insane amount of plastic.

>>10896285
Oh, and they're breeding like rabbits and encouraging massive immigration with some weird axiomatic goal of "economic growth" whenever reproduction rates start dropping.

>>10896277
The solution is pretty simple. It's "stop emitting greenhouse gases." The most effective economic measures to do that, according to some economists, would be carbon taxes and cap and trade systems.

>>10896299
It makes more sense intuitively that positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement should be used. People and businesses should be rewarded encouraged to do X and not punished and discouraged for not doing X.

>>10896299
Whatever you say, buddy.

>>10896304
Both should be done. Subsidies for renewables are already a thing. That's positive reinforcement.

>>10896306
There are more tactful ways to admit you've run out of arguments. Silence, for one.

>>10896311
I'm not arguing with you, buddy. Why are you so defensive/adversarial?

>>10896311
I'm just throwing ideas out there.
Like:
I think most people know the science is solid, and that climate change is a problem. What they disagree with iare the "solutions" being proposed, especially as they watch development go on unhindered, and population exploding - both actions being encouraged by government. That seems to contradict the notion that government is interested in preventing climate change..

You need to relax and quit being so paranoid. Not everyone is against you.

>>10896317
So "whatever you say, buddy" isn't intended to be dismissive of what I'm saying? Because being dismissive would constitute arguing against it.

>>10896324
You dismissed what I was saying first, by spewing the standard carbon tax shill line we've all heard over and over and over again ad nauseam, in response to:
>>10896322

>>10896322
How about you actually address points instead of insisting that I'm paranoid because I brought some topics up or threw in an insult or two?
>I'm just throwing ideas out there.
And I responded to what you said.

>>10896324
They're taxing our goods, and services, and our mobility, while currently building an 8 lane super highway using machines that run on diesel and asphalt made from oil. Why? Because development raises tax dollars as well.

Let's also not forget that a government that collects a carbon tax has an economic incentive to encourage more use of fossil fuels.

And shills like you will never admit to hypocrisy.

>>10896329
Carbon tax is LITERALLY the most effective economic measure that could be put in place. Don't just take my word for it. Read the opinions of professional economists on the matter. "Stop emitting greenhouse gases" is more important than sustaining economic growth at all costs, so I'm not sure why advocating carbon tax as a policy makes me a shill.

Here's an open letter signed by thousands of economists, including several Nobel laureates, agreeing that the carbon tax is an effective measure that should be universally implemented for the goal of addressing emissions:

https://www.clcouncil.org/economists-statement/

>>10896340
A government that collects a carbon tax also has a mandate from the people who supported it to reduce carbon emissions. I have yet to see an instance of a carbon tax passed with the intention to raise the usage of fossil fuels. The incentive being present is not, by itself, a reason to not pass carbon tax legislation.

>>10890616
Definitely

>>10892235
it has been like this for a while now anon. why even point it out?

You just exude, greasiness, slime, and scum. I feel really gross even just conversing with you on this site. We need leaders, not politicians. Go back to ambulance chasing or whatever bureaucratic pettifoggery it is that you trained for.

>>10890616
I can FEEL the ice caps MELTING!!

Can you FEEL it BROTHERS?!!!!!

CAN YOU FEEL IT!???!???

>>10896399
Not that guy but you sound mentally ill.

Hoping the ice caps melt and we all die desu. Humanity is fucked unless transhumanism and/or heavy genetic engineering fixes the large amount of genetic trash that puts on the facade of humanity.

>>10896340
>>10896357
>government that collects a carbon tax
...which government is that??

>>10896198
>An inexperienced 16 year old girl personally told me this
found the pedo

How will we raise our kids in a world like this?

>>10896508
Pettifogger. It's an old English word that we need to bring back because describes liberal politicians pretty well. Maybe you should look it up.

Incidentally, carbon taxe,s or any kind of expansion of the bureaucracy really, would be a pettifogger's masturbatory fantasy.

>>10896508
Pettifogger. It's an old English word that we need to bring back because it describes liberal politicians pretty well. Maybe you should look it up.

Incidentally, carbon taxes or any kind of expansion of the bureaucracy really, would be a pettifogger's masturbatory fantasy.

>>10896227
ok see you in 18 months lmao

>>10890616
actually we should have acted at least 40 years ago, but if we start now we might still be able to avoid some of the worst effects

>>10897792
I'd what I read is right. The only way to make any effective change is by cutting the average lifestyle by 6 in regards to emissions. Which won't happen

>>10897792
Why would climate change cause more earthquakes?

>>10896351
Professional economists gave us the 2008 financial crash.

>>10892390
good thin im sitting at the back of the rowboat. nothing to worry about here
those guys at the front are just paranoid fearmongers.

>>10897809
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound

>>10890616
>another global warming hoax thread
A smartass made up a number. The number 18. This is what all smartass do. They make up stupid numbers.
Just don't listen to any apocalyptic prediction!

>>10890616
It's real but exagerrated.
Since we are nearing 2020 and nothing cataclysmic has happened they need to up the hype machine.
They have exhausted their talking points.
They cant point to hurricanes since there are no hurricanes this season.
They cant point to record ice melt since no record has been set this season.
They cant point to rising sea levels cause sea level is rising super slowly and no island has been wiped of the map.
They cant keep talking about deadly heatwaves because even though last heatwave was warmer in europe than the one in 2003, less people died.
No sensational disaster has happened and its 2020, so they need to keep up the hype machine.
Not necesarily because its a lie, but because sensationalism gets more into the heads of normal people.

>>10898260
low iq post

>>10897792
>millions of refugees
wtf I hate climate change now

literally nothingburger. kys climatefag.

>>10893015
What is the percentage increase in trapped sunlight caused by the co2 increase though? 0.001%? Also don't forget that energy radiates as the forth power of temperature so the warmer it gets the more energy we loose to blackbody. Many of the models don't account well for equilibrium factors which is why we have the fire and brimstone predictions.
Not only that but because climate science is so political, essentially cultlike now, it is difficult to make out good science from funding chasers and nu-preachers trying to make fame

>>10893185
The significance of the amplifying effect of water vapour has been extremely exaggerated/poorly modeled. If what was said previously was true we would all be dead by now

>>10896299
>The solution is pretty simple
Yeah it's called wipe out 1/2 of the world population. Look at the countries like India, China, and essentially all of them in Africa and please tell me again how me having a steak is killing the planet.
I agree we are killing the planet but every solution proposed is inward focused on things that really are not all that big of co2 adders (cars/transport are the exception).
The entirety of Africa cannot feed itself due to the absolutely retarded cultures that exist and they also have 0 foresight and have 20+ children each leading to a massive unsustainable cancer on the rest of the world. China gives 0 fucks about the environment and India is close behind them. Banning plastics straws will do so much good in America when the biggest contributed of ocean plastic debris routinely dumps crateloads worth of straws in the rivers.
Essentially all the solutions proposed are addressing the leak in the roof of the ship while ignoring the massive hole in the hill.

>>10898389
This Anon gets it.
It's all about too may people.
Yes, we can stretch resources, conserve energy, find alternate energy sources, but combining all those solutions will not make up for the sheer volume of people demanding more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsd1IT7ySfE

>>10898225
low iq post

>>10898327
it's even worse, most climate refugees will come from Florida

>>10890616

>>10899096
>miami is under water
>climate change is actually an improvement
wtf i love republicans now

>>10890616
Only 18 months! Now I'll never have enough time to build muscle

>>10898362
>>10898368
>I don't understand the scale of the numbers or how to figure them so I'll just pretend they don't even work out
>>10898389
>>10898401
population is a multiplier, not an excuse to do nothing
>>10899177
>"bad things will happen by year X" becomes "the world will end by X"
it's so easy for denialists to be dishonest with hyperbole while ignoring the irony of accusing those with the facts of the same

>>10892235
Look at how mad this filthy shitbaby is lmao

Just something to think about when trying to form arguments against anthropogenic climate change deniers:

They don't have an alternative explanation for the phenomenon.

>>10892418

This graph is an excellent example, because it means nothing. Not only is it a bad graph that is probably complete nonsense (especially because there's no objective metric for the vertical axis of temperature), it provides no information on why those "natural cycles" happened.

They just say "it's natural, there's nothing we can do" without validating it with any actual evidence of how that natural cycle works.

The reason that they don't is that ecologists, astronomers, and geologists support anthropogenic climate change, because there have been no natural events that could cause the kinds of changes they say are "just the Earth doing its thing".

Ask any denier to provide this kind of evidence, and they'll ultimately just prove that they're shills or conspiracy theorists, because there's yet to be a legitimate counter-hypothesis.

Either listen to reason or be forced to listen to it through systematic eco-"terrorism". Mother Nature has had enough and so did all intelligent people on the planet who are seeing this tragedy unfold.

>>10892781
this, is political in the first place and second they want to raise taxes for everything, from Meat to Plastic and to sell us expensive shit like fake meat, if they succeed in 10 years only middle class and rich will afford real meat, the rest of us will eat bugs, fake meat, etc.

>>10900305
I'm a muslim so I'll always have my safe space of meat

>>10900305

Good. Red meat SHOULD be taxed. I'm sick of my tax money paying for fat ass boomers dying of diabetes and heart disease.

>>10890616
Doesn't matter if it's 12 years or 18 months, nothing meaningful will get done. There will be a steady ramp down of food production, a couple world wars, then a slow 1000 year spiral to extinction.

>>10900309
What country?

>>10900322
Russia

>>10890616
Saving is subjective and therefore not quantifiable. Clickbait par excellence

>>10893126
>>10893185
>>10893195

What will actually happen?

>>10900488
We are all going to die.

>>10890616
>give all power to commies or the world will explode TOMORROW
kek

I used to think, you know what maybe we should try being greener and get the greenhouse gasses under control.
But after so much fucking fear mongering I say let it come, until Denmark is under water I won't believe it

>>10898368
>The significance of the amplifying effect of water vapour has been extremely exaggerated/poorly modeled
Citation needed. Deniers went from water vapor being most important GHG to the effect of water vapor is extremely exaggerated. You can't have both

>>10898362
>Not only that but because climate science is so political, essentially cultlike now, it is difficult to make out good science from funding chasers and nu-preachers trying to make fame

If deniers are right how come they can't make their own models?
IPCC report simply CMIP (Climate Model Intercomparison Project) results. Each AR number correspond to CMIP, so IPCC AR4 report for CMIP4 and so on. CMIP6 is currently ongoing and everyone is welcome to download input forcings, and submit their results. https://www.wcrp-climate.org/wgcm-cmip/wgcm-cmip6..
The fact is if you build a climate model worth a damn, including all we know about feedback systems, conservation of momentum for moving air masses, conservation of energy etc you will get similar results to the CMIP models.

>>10890616
If climate change was as big of a problem as people made it out to be, we would've gone to war with China already for emitting more than the United states and Europe combined when it comes to Greenhouse Gasses.

>>10901318
We're trying to avoid that war. It could well occur if conditions deteriorate badly enough, and it involves nuclear weapons, which would be a catastrophe just like unchecked climate change will be.

>>10890621
fuck it, fill the ocean with white shade balls and turn it into a reflective ball pit.

>>10900305
good
Beef accounts for roughly half of agricultural land use,
and emissions associated with U.S. diets,
but provides just 3% of the calories.

>>10902610
>let's kill ourselves by asphyxiation
phytoplankton contribute between 50 to 85 percent of the oxygen in Earth’s atmosphere

>>10890616
Hues are literally burning the amazon forest as we speak, 18 months seems plausible

>>10902953
strayas are bleaching the great barrier reef tho, favela monkeys are bad but we need to acknowledge there are other problem populations as well...

>>10902958
Dude, the amount of smoke from the fires is SO BIG Sao Paulo looks like fucking smog-infested China. And Sao Paulo is not even close to it i think
The deforestation shot up to 278% in the last month, and their president literally fired the guy that released data about it because he didn't want the data released anymore (Which is retarded because everyone can still look that up since other countries also monitor it, it's the fucking amazon rainforest)

>>10902968
>Dude, the amount of smoke from the fires is SO BIG Sao Paulo looks like fucking smog-infested China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh0tIUaguqU

>>10901257
>no ice in the arctic since 2013
>how can you dare criticize my model

>>10892808
>address media
Why? Its tangential to the point at best. Its not my job to fix the absolute DISASTER that is modern journalism so that idiots will think climate change is real given that we live in the information age and the sum total of extant human experience is available 24/7 and is unlimited.

>>10895474
>21st century
>America leader in anything
lmao

>>10896304
Every good piece of tax legislature includes both in the form of rebates and other kickbacks.
>>10898389
>>10898401
No he doesnt and neither do you.
>africa
Instantly you reveal yourself as an uneducated cretin, Africa in totality emits next to nothing because they dont have a developed economy. You get to pick one of the two following positions
Africa is a shithole
Africa is a major contributor to ghg emissions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions
It even has a colour coded map because they know you are too much of a retard to be able to synthesize useful information from a simple table.
>steak killing the planet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production
>the FAO has recently estimated that livestock (including poultry) accounts for about 14.5 percent of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions estimated as 100-year CO2 equivalents
>A previous widely cited FAO report using somewhat more comprehensive analysis had estimated 18 percent
>Using a different sectoral assignment of emissions, the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) has estimated that agriculture (including not only livestock, but also food crop, biofuel and other production) accounted for about 10 to 12 percent of global anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions (expressed as 100-year carbon dioxide equivalents) in 2005[44] and in 2010.[45]
Here we see that beef is by far the most emission intensive livestock
https://timeforchange.org/are-cows-cause-of-global-warming-meat-methane-CO2

So yes eating steak in the quantities we do is having a meaningful impact on ghg emissions.

>>10903127
>>no ice in the arctic since 2013
Show me a pre 2013 peer reviewed paper that predict ice free arctic by 2013

>>10903068
>This is Sao Paulo at 3 hours in the afternoon yesterday
nigger

>>10903068
>This is from the GOES-16 satellite
double nigger
the amazon rainforest is dying because the monkeys elected a manipulated moron lol

>>10903326
kek holy shit

i noticed the sky looked funny yesterday but i thought it was just the weather, it is still winter and it is been cloudy for quite some days

so yeah he may be a moron, but so is every other brazilian politician what are you even going to do about it? lmao

>>10901318
we would have to address the fact that our per capita emissions are more than double, and US corporations are responsible for a huge chunk of Chinese emissions first. Which will never happen.

>>10903326
That is a lie, earth is flat

>>10903302
>Things are worse than predicted
>"That means it's wrong! I win, globo wobo BTFO!!1 Get rekt envirotards"

>>10890616
18 months from now, will McGrath write and admit that he was wrong?

Poor guy violated the first rule of alarmist journalism -- put Doomsday far enough in the future that everyone will forget that you wrote about it by the time you get there. If you are wrong, nobody remembers. If you happen to have been right, you can remind everybody.

>>10890954
>2030 is still the point where shit's most likely to hit the fan.
Why is that point always more-or-less ten years away?

>>10903524
18months is enough for the modern adhd ridden audiences.

>>10903524
>18 months from now, will McGrath write and admit that he was wrong?
Implying sjw leftie progresist retards ever admit they are wrong

>>10891005
>I'd like to see some large governmental action to ditch fossil fuels, but it's just not going to happen.

It is not going to happen if activists continue the strategy of "pressure governments to enforce economically unfeasible energy policies." If you want to "ditch" fossil fuels, you need to be pressuring the governments to invest in an Apollo-style crash research program into providing energy that is both carbon-neutral AND economically more attractive than fossil fuels. Come up with THAT, and people don;t have to be forced to switch -- they'll switch willingly because it makes sense for them to do so.

In the meantime, if you are concerned not just with fossil fuels but with climate change, better start thinking more seriously about caw farts and the like. Also, better be pushing the governments to get policies and R&D going on geo-engineering. Becaus whether or not you think it would be a good idea, if things start to get bad, SOMEBODY is going to try it, and it might be better if what is tried has more thought behind it, rather than less, and is coordinated rather than everybody doing too many things at once in a panic and triggering a severe ice age, or something.

>>10892390
Row towards shore.
Drop anchor.
Invent outboard motor.
Invent hang-glider.

>>10893015
CO2 is A greenhouse gas. Should we be paying more attention to others, like methane?

>>10893126
When is the PNR after which it is pointless to keep posting about it? I'm looking forward to that one.

>>10893217
It's saying that the world will be set on a course from which recovery is not possible in 18 months.

Which, yeah, is alarmist.

>>10895422
>ozone

Possibly of interest:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/ozone-hole-was-super-scary-what-happened-it-180957775/

>>10895481
America is one of the few countries that has deceased per capita CO2 production.

>>10895967
Maybe you super intelligent people can figure out how to make practice sustainability the more competitive option, instead of just scolding people to "eat their spinach."

>>10895991
Organic almost-everything is certainly less sustainable than modern farming.

>>10896277
>>10896285

See, I think this is where the problem is: activists do not want an answer unless it punishes people they do not like, unless it punishes a life-style they do not like. Other answers are not to be considered, the important thing is "sacrifice" and "shared suffering."

And that is never going to sell. You are never going to convince people to freeze to death in the dark for the greater good.

If you are serious in believing that climate change is a serious threat, then insisting on an approach to addressing it that will never win acceptance is insane. Best roll up your sleeves and get to work finding ways to address the issue that ALSO work economically, and lead to shared prosperity rather than shared suffering.

>>10896299
I would think "discovering better, more economical ways to use energy that have the side-benefit of releasing less CO2 would be even better. And I would not look to "some economists" to evaluate how to do that.

>>10896307
>Subsidies for renewables are already a thing. That's positive reinforcement.

Well...
Not really, if the renewables are less economically efficient. Pushing their use through forced wealth-transfers is over-all a negative thing to do, economically. It makes energy more expensive, but pays for it through a pyramid-scheme.

Make renewable energy more economical than fossil fuel, to where it makes sense for me, economically, to use it, without bribes. If you do that, I'll be standing in line to switch over, regardless of the environmental benefits.

R&D into such energy systems should be the #1 goal of environmental activism, if we are serious about climate change.

>>10896329
>>10896324

>>10897497
Oh fuck, I forgot to think of the children.

>>10898310
Low IQ refutation.

>>10900492
Well, yes, just like everybody else in history.

>>10903248
>Why?
Because presumably you were worried about climate change, and things that make it less likely the problem will be addressed matter to you.

>>10892781
>It is political.
Turning climate protection into a political issue is exactly why it's a problem.

I don't think that economic liberalism is so inherently and utterly opposed to stop long-term losses caused by climate change, that their only climate change-preventing policy is a strawman that goes "let's declare war on the most polluting nations, just so that we can profit off the sales".

>>10903524
He'll just make another 18months away doomsday scenario.
You don't really expect something else, do you?

>>10903279
>because they dont have a developed economy
But giving them a developed economy to "lower fertility rates, and population growth" is a key part of the neoliberal plan. Pretty contradictory on it's face so there must be more to it, like a profit motive.

>>10903610
We are talking about ways to address it that work economically. Being hyperbolic and misrepresenting what people you disagree with actually want is not exactly a convincing way to oppose their policies. Universal carbon taxes and red meat taxes would be great starts to addressing the problem with minimal economic losses.

>>10903615
Fuck off, retard. Opponents of environmental protections are the ones bringing up the economic argument. Then I propose a solution that would help fix the problem, and also be economically viable. Then you chime in with "why listen to economists, just fix the problem." Fuck off.
>>10903623
That doesn't change the fact that a subsidy offers an incentive, namely an offsetting of costs.
>Make renewable energy more economical than fossil fuel, to where it makes sense for me, economically, to use it, without bribes.
It already is when you add in the long-term resource losses associated with climate change. The fact that these losses are currently completely ignored doesn't mean that an aggressive transition to renewables isn't economically sensible. Short-term cost increases are still significantly less expensive than the losses are projected to be.
>R&D into such energy systems should be the #1 goal of environmental activism, if we are serious about climate change.
It is important, but political policy is an inescapable part of the solution.

>>10903516
low iq post

>>10890616
>>10890635
>not just accelerating space exploration and off planet survival.