/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10867933
>humans
>can speak
>think in speech
>spend the majority of their life speaking and consuming things of other people speaking
>dolphins
>can screeeeeee

>>10867933
Dolphins require 4d locomotion. Us 3d. Dolphins up down +. Us left right forward back. Takes big brains

>>10867941
They think through sound waves.
They can form images with them.

>>10867933
>Is underwater
Even if the opposable thumbs we're not a barrier, it's very hard to construct a civilization underwater. Doing taxes and business required the invention of writing instruments, and with it followed math and the rest is history.

>>10867952
>Up down
>Left Right
>Forward back
>4D
No wonder this place is a shithole

They're smart enough to realize civilization is a waste of time

>>10867953
they also can't speak which is the basis of civilization and echolocation isn't a conscious effort just like throwing a spear isn't manually calculated in your brain

>>10867963
This pretty much. Why have a civilization when you can roam the ocean free to fuck around with whomever you find.

>>10867963
based and red pilled
> dolphin unibommer iq

>>10867933
A lot of that brain is probably dedicated to useless shit like echolocation. Also dolphins gimped themselves by becoming a species living in water, which means no fire for them. As fellow mammals its our duty to laugh at cetaceans.

No fire, no advancing beyond being merely intelligent.

Homo Erectus definitely used and made fire. There is other support for hominids using fire back as far as 1.5 mya.

>>10867990
>No fire, no advancing beyond being merely intelligent.

BINGO! Dolphins may be vary intelligent but without the ability to create and maintain fire they can never advance technologically. Not having limbs that can hold and manipulate objects also greatly limits their technology ability.

>>10867933
Even assuming they are actually in the same range of intelligence as humans (difficult to tell due to communication barriers) they have no access to tools so the can't into highly organized civilization in the same way we can. They have no significant capability to alter their own environment or create artificial environments like humans do.

>>10867985
they might be like other animals without society the brain are sufficiently networked to actualy make them smart

>>10867952
left right forward back is 4 dimensions you brianlet

>>10867933
Dolphins have no opposable thumbs

dolphins built the pyramids

If you study too much, you'll turn into a dumbshit, just like a dolphin

>>10868149
Underrated post, thanks for the giggle

>>10868111
THERE ARE THREE SPATIAL DIMENSIONS RETARD.

>>10867933
Dolphins are civilized. They live in small family groups. They hunt together as a team.

>>10868175
They have schools as well

>>10867964
>they also can't speak
Debatable.

>>10868184
>Debatable.
Not with them.

>>10867941
>>can speak
>>think in speech
>>spend the majority of their life speaking and consuming things of other people speaking
Dolphins do all of these you complete retard.

>>10867933
They have no limbs with which to manipulate objects.

Dolphins are amazing. They have names (their signature call is used as a name), they have complex behaviour (saving beached whales and drowning humans, cooperating with humans to lure schools of fish onto nets, hoarding trash in a hide spot not visible to human experimenters to exchange for fish when trained to clean their aquariums, displaying understanding of the future, rationing and payoff), capacity to use tools AND teach this to other dolphins across generations (literally dolphin schooling, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0310.1997.tb00160.x)), Akeakamai and Phoenix learned 2-way communication with humans and showed dolphins understand grammatical ordering of words perfectly. They are unironically more advanced than niggers.

>>10867964
>they also can't speak
They can. They can even imitate our frequency range, which we can't do with them. We need sound modulation to talk to them and understand their clicks. They just need to care to talk to you.

>>10868203
Link seems broken
https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1439-0310.1997.tb00160.x

>>10867933
> that tiny frontal lobe
Most of the rest of the brain just controls the body.

>>10867933
Because it doesn't matter how much you can think, if you can't record it, or apply it. Dolphins don't have any fuckin hands. This is why humanity needs genetic engineering, so we can create a subservient race of dolphin based mermaid babe to act as our scientists.

Because you can't build civilisations underwater without hands

>>10868173
>what is bait

>>10867933
they dicks that can wrap around female swimmers, drag them under water, and rape them. also they never go to prison for it.

seems like Dolphins have got life figured out

>>10868057
technology is gay

>>10867933
>why aren't there any dolphin civilizations?
Dolphins have speeches and cultures and different groups have different culture and tongues. There is dolphin civilizations but to a human observer they all look the same, they're not apparent. Except for that particular cultural aspect that dolphins share with afro-centered civilization: rape culture.


Oh and let's be honest: human civilization are useless and go nowhere anyway. What's the fucking point?

Has anyone ever tried to teach a dolphin math?

>>10868425
has anyone tried to give a dolphin meth and had it do math?
also i want to hold hands with aqua

>>10868321
They may not have hands, but they do have prehensile dicks.
So a hypothetical dolphin civilization would probably be REALLY patriarchal, because only males can really do stuff with any level of finesse.

>>10867941
>can screeeeee
keked out loud

>>10868203
>They have no limbs with which to manipulate objects.
But they do anon!

>>10867933
I like the theory that our brains developed as such because of 3 reasons: 1 is shrooms. We don't get outright death visions and vomit off the common psilosyben mushroom like other animals. It's been a mind expanding fungus, ask anyone who's taken it.
2- we cook our meats. I have no clue who started this (probably some Neanderthal having visions of a deer on fire) but it really helps break down the food before we digest it. I know there's nutrient loss I cooking, but there's hella more saved in digesting. This allowed more energy to be sent to the brain for cognition. Ask anyone whos spent weeks in the woods making their own food. Cooked meat is the ultimate nutrient.
3: thank God those 2 are coupled with these tree climbing hands. If this shit happened to hooved animals they never would've moved things around at this level. This greatly aided in discovery and combination of things.

Bottlenose dolphins
>Rape humans, fish, other dolphins, corpses, etc
>bully animals and humans for the laughs, sometimes fatally
>get high off pufferfish

Orcas
>Know their place below humans, only one reported case of a wild orca biting a human fifty years ago
>fuck off powerful and just as smart

Why do we waste time with bottlenose dolphins?

>>10868310
THIS

>>10868488
Interesting point. We do forget about those magnificent beasts all too often. They're like great whites with dolphin brains and agile whale bodies

>>10868488
>get high off pufferfish

>>10868484
Don't we also gain more from meat or at least cooked meat than other animals because of a combination of bacteria in our stomachs?

>>10868500
There's been research notes about it since 1995, in small doses pufferfish toxins seem to put them in a trance like state due to the narcotic effects and groups enjoy passing a pufferfish around between each other

>>10868484
>It's been a mind expanding fungus, ask anyone who's taken it.
This is an interesting theory, one that I've read about. For sure mushrooms have been mind expanding in my personal experience. In retrospect it's not so groundbreaking that I wouldn't be able to achieve within a lifetime on this planet, living in the modern society, with the access to information etc. But certainly for an undeveloped caveman it must have been leaps and bounds.

>>10867952
This is /sci/, ladies and gents

>>10867952
Ignoring the major flaws in this comment, does this mean that it is canon in Star Trek that every human after the end of the Eugenics Wars is part dolphin?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbTUTNenvCY

>>10868445
>implying dolphin vaginas aren't incredibly versatile

>>10867933

Because dolphins can't be white and therefore can't form a superior civilization.

>>10867933
Dolphin brains are like balls, which makes the dolphin one big dick.

>>10867952
all pilots must have enormous brains

>>10868945
something something lmgtfy something something albino dolphins

>>10867933
>be dolphin
>spend the days surfing the waves for fun, eating fresh seafood and having sex

They are the ones doing the right things, look at us.

>>10868972
>spend the days surfing the waves for fun, eating fresh seafood and having sex
...you aren't doing this anon?

>>10867933
In contrary to popular belief, the evolutionary driver of human sentience was the development of hands and legs.

>intelligent life without arms

>>10868975
I need to spend big part of my daily life wagecucking to pay Mr.Shekelstain for utility and bills.

neuralink for dolphins when?

Dolphins are the niggers of the ocean, literally drag people underwater just for giggles.

>>10868964
there are albino africans yet they haven't form an albino african society

>>10868928
Novels aren't canon

>>10867963
I was thinking this too. I can imagine the split when we had a common ancestor. "Okay, you guys go ahead and do that dumb shit, we're gonna hang out by the water and rape stuff."

>>10867933
>Not having read Douglas Adams
Embarrassing tbqh

>>10868767
What do you mean by "mind expanding"? I don't mean to offend but that sounds like generic stoner talk.

>>10867933
Higher language is the basis for civilization

>>10869071
All white people are Albino Africans. And by white I include Asians. Out of Africa dude.

>>10869111
That is from the Wrath of Khan which is a motion picture.

>>10867953

Yeah, there some evidence that they can transmit and receive visuals to each other through their ultrasound

>>10868484

Dude weed and fire and thumbs

420 blaze it broskidoodidocious

>>10867933
>Be human
>Get burned
>Invent fire

>Be dolphin
>Get burned
>Invent underwater fire
>Headbutt diver to death

>>10869505
Sounds like LSD.

The average dolphins is probably happier than the average human. What do they have to fear? Maybe sharks, not much else (orcas don't see to prey on other cetaceans). None of the problems of civilization humans have to endure.

>>10867933
There are. They are just not like human civilizations. You can't project like that, it doesn't work.

>>10868177
And country

>>10868430
They tried to give dolphins LSD back in the 60's. The whole story is quite a read.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/08/the-dolphin-who-loved-me

>>10867933
density dude. How many times does this have to be discussed...

>>10867964
The basis of civilization is writing, not speech, idiot

>>10868194
meanwhile dolphins are asking why those dumb hairless apes can't speak.

>>10867952
sasuga brainlet-san
point and laugh at this brainlet, point and laugh

>>10868430
i want to hold hand with megumin

>>10867933
>why aren't there any dolphin civilizations? dolphins brainmog humans out of existence
If you believe your second sentence, the answer is in your question.

>>10868149
>dolphins built the pyramids

Everyone knows it was cats.

Dolphins aren't going to achieve shit without digits and opposable thumbs

>>10868419
Without civilization most of us wouldn't even know about dolphins, for starters.

>>10867933
There may be. We would never know.

>>10867952
God has forsaken us

>>10868419
>Oh and let's be honest: human civilization are useless and go nowhere anyway. What's the fucking point?

What do you mean they're useless and go nowhere anyways?

Look at actual neuron count.

It might look on the surface that dolphins and humans have a similar brain size however humans have 16 billion neurons while dolphins have 10 billion neurons.

>>10870291
>be dolphin
>realized everything is better wetter
>some land ape takes me from my home
>"Abloo Abloo Meesa Fucking Land Ape!"
>retard now makes me swim in aquarium for peoples shits and giggles
>mfw

>>10867952
>4D locomotion
Zoomers were a mistake.

To put all this in other way, Dolphins are still "nomadic". If there ever was a niche dolphin population with an incentive to settle down and arrange their hierarchy among specialized workers and cast... it's a start.

>>10870937
>however humans have 16 billion neurons
Found the brainlet.

>>10871238

Dolphin brains look kinda sexy,,,,

Is that why they keep raping everything and everyone?

>>10867961
>No wonder this place is ####

you forgot time, as a dimension to add to your insult, and completely not understanding your own argument... anon thought you would understand arrow of time, and cause and effect. but then again, nope, you dont understand things, silly anon

>>10871404

not OP, sage sage and errything soz

:shrug:

>>10871255
i think the answer isn't entirely dependent on neuron count but on which brain structures are present

>>10868484
>We don't get outright death visions and vomit off the common psilosyben mushroom like other animals
There are various psylosyben mushrooms, some lethal, some "mind expanding" and they are very close in appearance.

>>10867933
no opposable thumbs, and they live underwater where building anything is impossible unless you've started on land beforehand

>>10868310
I never thought of this, if genetic engineering on humans is taboo maybe the west can start out on dolphins

>>10872011
Fact. They can't chop trees for wood, so no crafting benches.

>>10868177
But fish also have schools?

>>10872020
I was thinking more stuff like steam/diesel engines

>>10872036
Even in Tekkit, you need to get a crafting bench first.

>>10868203
>.t transdolphin

>>10869505
god damn dolphins communicating trough telepathy and shit

>>10868767
For sure, but I should've clarified more that generations of cavemen would get the benefit of mind expansion

>>10867985
>>10867990
>>10868057

C'mon guys. There are plenty of open faults underwater where dolphins could access as much heat as they could need. They just don't.


>>10868987
Yea all I want to do now is connect a dolphin brain to a simulated human body with speech abilities.

I wonder what it would say...

>>10869218
There are studies which have been done. You can find them yourself. Psilocybin increases brain activity and causes connections to form within the brain which otherwise would not form. Huge areas of the brain light up and get connected.

Then you have some papers which indicate that psilocybin enhances neuroplasticity and neural growth.

With our new diet there was energy to spare for such pursuits and it likely has paid off. We owe a lot to the auroch if this is true. They gave us mushrooms and meat. Understandable why this beast features in so much art.

>>10867933
civilisation isn't a human imperative let alone an imperative for life

>>10872176
>there isn't anything holding back dolphins from making civilizations
Great, again- why haven't dolphins made any civilizations

>>10867933
Imagine how stupid humans would be if we didn't hand thumbs.

As great as brains are physiology is just as if not more intelligent.
IF you gave dolphins hands they'd be able to do supper high iq stuff.

Imagine a 190 iq guy with no hands. he can't do smart stuff even though hes smart.

>>10867933
Imagine how stupid humans would be if we didn't hand thumbs.

As great as brains are morphology is just as if not more intelligent.
IF you gave dolphins hands they'd be able to do supper high iq stuff.

Imagine a 190 iq guy with dolphin flippers instead of hands. he can't do smart stuff even though hes smart because he has dumb hands.

They already had them, millions of years ago, they're just past that bullshit now.

>>10872231
But Stephen Hawking had a dumb body but a smart brain.

>>10868767
>>10872162
>believing a theory made up by Terrence McKenna
shiggy my diggy

>>10872301
it was only possible because of the discoverers and advances in technology made by humans with brains hands legs eyes etc.

Do you think it would've been possible for a person born blind to conceive of the theory of evolution independently? No. The physical apparatuses through which we interact with the world are just as important as brains.

If you are a blind man there's information you cannot access and therefore you can't form the connections between the information.

>>10867933

It's very difficult to have an industrial revolution underwater. It's also very difficult to make anything without some form of grasping and manipulation.

>>10868404
Based

>>10867959
>a civilization can’t exist if writing, taxes, or math don’t exist

>>10868488
>only one reported case of a wild orca biting a human fifty years ago
The ones at seaworld love to kill humans, though that is understandable.

>>10868404
that's pretty based desu

>>10873103
Fuck off retard

>>10867933
dolphin here

ur fucken ded bitch

>>10869442
Not what albino means mr. autism.

>>10868500
https://youtu.be/msx3BAhIeQg

>>10868953
I think you've been passing around a pufferfish too.

>>10870400

i'm glad the argument quickly devolved into "brain size doesn't matter. talking, writing, and thumbs do"

quintessential human behavior. I don't think any other species moves goalposts.

>>10873383
Shh, didn't we all agree to stay under the radar till the Great Revolution?

>>10867985
>useless shit like echolocation
just fukn lol @ cetacean evolution strats absolute bottom tier

>>10873451
There's no big difference in the genes affected, it's functionally the same too.

>>10867933
It's not the size of the computer, it's how well the components work together that determines the speed and complexity

>>10867933
No fire underwater.

When we speak of dolphin civ I feel the implication is all dolphins would be high functioning contributing members but there'd be dolphin incels, dolphin shitposters and dolphin politicians, too

>>10867941
>dolphins
>speak in dolphin languages (thought by small-brained monkeys to be meaningless screeching)
>think in dolphin languages
>spend the majority of their time having fun, having sex, eating fish, playing with their friends

>hoomans
>speak (about reality TV)
>think in speech (about reality TV)
>spend the majority of their time working minimum wage jobs they hate to produce wealth for their employers, getting killed in pointless wars to advance the interests of the ruling class, and distracting themselves from their terrible and pointless lives by fantasising about reality TV stars,

>>10867952
give them fucking eqautions

>>10867963
the answer when I contemplate humanity's purpose

>>10867959
>we're

What does mog mean? brainmog? help please

^help

>>10867933
OP you're fucking retarded. Ok? You understand? You're so fucking stupid it's unbelievable.

I feel bad for your dumb piece of shit mother for having a child like you but she's fucking stupid for not aborting you.

Honey lets leave this thread for lame shoobies.

what mog mean brainmog what.

>>10875317
Cat. Cats have a very high number of synapses while dolphins have a very high number of neurons.

>>10874885
>communism vs capitalism

>>10874043
Its even worse when telling people,
only 14 000 years ago, average human has lost 25% of brain size. The size of a tennis ball.
Cro Magnon man had 25% bigger brain than most people today.

Then suddenly brain size doesnt matter.

>>10876429
>someone hold x opinion
>gains new information
>their opinion changes to y
>You: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>10867933
Seeing through both visual data and sonic data has made the creases of the brain increase in both size and density. However, the stored info on them is retardedly huge even with biological encryption values in place. This means that there mind is taken up with 3D interpretations of sonic data and of course whatever their eyes see. They are too busy thinking about what they see to use their brain effectively. However, stick their brain inside a cyborg and...well...
You brought that on yourself.

>>10868484
strong bait

Man animals are such fucking fags lol.
Humans been in this bitch for what, 40000 years and already exploring spaces, got the power to destroy the earth hundreds of times over, can destroy practically any species, having philosophical disrourse, and meanwhile fucking animals over here can't fucking form speech hahahaha whar a bunch of retards.
Man they're such faggots, imagine having a species millions of years olds yet dying to the simplest shit. "Oh, water was 0.05 too high on oh scale, guess I'll die" fucking retards like hahahahaha can you imagine.

>>10872162
Since breathe air it would be pretty difficult for them to access faults.

>>10876944
Let's discuss giving dolphins scuba equipment. What would a design need to incorporate? If they could then access faults, could they build industry?

>>10878258
sounds like a good idea, how about also giving em limbs in the form of detachable plastic prosthetic?

Are dolphins like the most overrated animals ever?

>>10878438
yes

>>10878438
They are like smaller and gayer whales, so yes.

Isn't most of the masses of the brain not for temperature management?

>>10867933
Because they live in small groups and can only pass down information through oral history. They are perpetually hunters, they will never be "farmers" and will never have written records to pass down information.

>>10878438
crows are similarly overrated

>>10875281
you can't use context clues?

the thread asks why dolphins don't have civilizations despite brainmoging humans. That implies there is something about the dolphins brain that should have allowed it to build civilizations in comparison to the human brain.

From this we can confidently infer that mog means something along the lines of to surpass in physical structure.

You don't have what it takes to be a /sci/entist. This board is for big brain boys. sorry pal

>>10867963
They've already got rape caves. What else do they really need?

>>10879116
More like underrated. The foundation of agriculture and thus the modern society

>>10867952
He is basically right, poster just fubbed the lapal we think in 2d and dolphins in 3d.
The earth can be thought of as a 2d surface, every point represented by x,y, as long. and lat.
Now yes of course you actually move in 3D, but if you need to know the way back to camp, even if it is over a hill, you really only need to think in 2d.
"It is back that to the north".
The people mailing fun of this poster are the real brainlets.

>>10879321
That’s a myth and a meme btw

>>10879831
What about monkeys, and our ape ancestors? They had to move up and down trees as well as the forest bed. What about city dwellers that have to know the x,y,z of a building they live/work in?

>>10879831
we think in 3d, idiot

I have a theory that the average human is not much more intelligent than apes. If humans were raised in the jungle without access to society and language, they would exhibit similar behaviors.

I think the only reason humans are so much farther along than other species is the fact that we developed a complex communication system and we can express ourselves. That's really the only thing separating us from most of the animal kingdom.

>>10880213
it's much more complicated than that you dumb teenager shit.

>>10867959
Yo guys, I swear, this guy is a genius.

He solved Schrodinger's Litterbox and everything.

>>10880222
Is it actually? There have been several studies that show children who grow up without any sort of language become legitimately retarded even though there's nothing physical wrong with their brain.

>>10871404
Time is not necessarily the same as an axial dimension, we just earmark it there because it's our best approximation as of right now.
Manifold adhering 4D may actually not be time, and time may exist independent, at a different dimensional level, or as an intrinsic link of all dimensions, because of observer paradoxes, and relativistic behavior.

Man dolphin brain looks so tasty, like a boiled tongue

>>10880235
Yeah, all those born deaf people are retarded

>>10880263
Language doesn't have to be spoken you fucking idiot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

>>10880289
>abused child

Yeah, you are an idiot.

>>10867941
Dolphins have very complex spoken language
>>10867952
Intelligent post

>>10867933
Fins instead of hands and living underwater make it hard to build stuff, plus they have no real need to build stuff

>>10880310
She's one of the only instances in recent human history to be a child with no language.

>>10867933
Intelligent civilization cannot form underwater.

intelligence requires an extremely specific, sophisticated set of variables to align to form, and then to take the next step into organization and society?

dolphins are smart but without access to fire, a way to write things down, the ability to manipulate their surroundings beyond the superficial, the space and resources to create permanent living areas that exist for generations, an evolutionary reason to work on more logistical tasks, ET-FUCKIN-CETERA, and you don't get a dolphin civilization. Same goes for any other underwater creature.

It is very unlikely for anything more than Dolphin/Whale level intelligence to form underwater barring extremely niche and specific scenarios, such as lava vents/caves allowing for an almost amphibious form to arise that would allow manipulation of materials and some sort of stable food source. But even then.

>>10867952
>dolphins require 4-dimensional locomotion
The absolute state of summer /sci/

>>10880403
yeah any time someone mentions the 4th dimension in a physical sense, you know they're full of it.

if you want to argue that humans have a more classical 2-dimensional sense of direction and motion, fine. and dolphins, in that very singular sense of motion, might have a better grasp on the Z part of the equation. but there is no scientific reasoning as to why that would matter at-fucking-all for cognitive development beyond some evolutionary traits to help them better manage these directions, and it's not like these are alien concepts for humans.

in fact, it makes no sense at all. so IDK why i'm trying to make sense of it.

>>10880084
>>10879854
If we think in 3D, the d, in h,w,d, is limited to 10 feet off the ground, while the Dolphins it is much much deeper, video game study’s prove this.
You are the idiot, we don’t have practice thinking in 3D spaically

>>10880731
>What is spatial visualization ability for 500?

>>10879832
t. dolphin

>200 posts omitted

answer is literally no arms you dumb fucks jesus christ what a shithole

>>10867933
If we had dolphin sized brains, they'd be less efficient. We are basically as intellegent as biologically possible.

>>10879103
The Aztecs and Mayans never created writing, but they still formed civilizations

>>10867952
I love this board

>>10881159
That was in the forth post, kys.

>>10881337
>The Aztecs and Mayans never created writing
incorrect

>>10872331
Do you think aliens would be 'humanoid' in nature?

>>10867933
no civilization = no goverment to pay taxes for

>>10867933
Humans
>Money and debt
>Weapons and war
>Industry and jobs

Dolphins
>Freedom and play

Dolphins are the smarter species.

>>10880240
And yet the theory of relativity.

>>10882463
If dolphins are so smart how come I get the in my cans of tuna?

>>10881570
t Dolphin

>>10867933
Because they are limited by their physiology. Humans can travel on land and in the sea, but dolphins can't live on land.

>>10881688
Cord writing is not actual writing

>>10872162
connections forming doesnt mean its anything useful, its just the physical manifestation of thinking of some random shit that you think has meaning, but later when you are sober you either dont remember, or you wrote it down and it was something stupid.

try to solve math problems on mushrooms, it doesnt make you better at it. you MIGHT be able to visualize the problem in a different way, but it wont help you understand, or else all the nerds would be boomheads, instead its just young people looking for wisdom and experience and drug addicts

>>10882014
possibly, i would think life from another planet similar to earth would have legs, since all the best smartest most successful animals have legs.

the five senses are essential, maybe theres more they have or ones that replace our five

>>10867933
they can't make tools.

>>10867952
can you not swim?

underwater civilization comin thru

>>10867933
social interactions, object manufacturing, knowing there a past a present a future.

>>10867963
we teach them to do tricks.

>>10885450
>inb4 rapecaves become real

>>10867933

That don't need to...

They have everything they need in the ocean. Complete freedom and adventure every day. No gravity. They have a true freedom that we do not.