/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10800120
90% of everything is shit

>>10800120
No excuse to not take your meds, anon.

>>10800120
Which psychiatric drugs? Are they SSRIs? Antipsychotics? Specify.
SSRIs have an average 50% effectiveness alone in treating anxiety disorders, less in depression, and can be used for off label uses with varying success.
- Mirtazapine has a good ~80% chance of working as a sleep aid adjunct, increasing success rates with other SSRIs. If we’re talking about singular regimes, this is a good example that those aren’t too effective.
- Antipsychotics are used for almost anything from Autism to Schizophrenia, and it’s obvious that neuroleptics are not ideal for conditions that are hard to treat or measure success. This confounds most data regarding both typical and atypical psychotics. All with varying effectiveness on bipolar, etc.
For example:
- Seroquel (quetiapine) is effective for manic bipolar, but not depressive. It’s somewhat effective for thought disorders and insomnia, but for so many others it’s a terrible choice.
Refine and define, OP, or shut up and accept being a fucking idiot.

science literally can't explain how psycho pharmacology works. In order to get approved they need only to be statistically better than placebo (which is 50%) Most drugs only work 54% - 58% of the time which is technically better than 50/50 so they get approval. Meanwhile most psychopharmacology have long term side effects such as addiction and actually causing the mental illness they're suppose to treat.

The failure over the past 40 years of psychopharmacology industry is what led them to believe they'd get away with engineering an opioid epidemic. There simply is not enough regulation and they can literally do what ever the fuck they want.

>>10802536
Prove your points. A placebo will not cause downregulation of serotonin receptors, which SSRIs have been scientifically proven to do.
Antipsychotics differ from placebo in that they antagonize dopamine receptors, decreasing their activity.
You can debate whether mental illness is a result of the receptors or not, but it’s not bullshit. You’re just overestimating how much you know about the pharmacology of these things.

>>10800120
How does CES compare to pharmaceuticals?

>>10802512
I'm taking sertraline and mirtazapine
Noice

>>10802716
Taking a 'lobotomy in a pill' because you can't put down the time to sort your life out is not something you want to advertise, even anonymously.

>>10802756
This. I wonder how much time people research possible long term solutions before copping out of life. It's like they never even consider that their diet is grossly inadequate of they have a toxic burden that will only get worse if ignored.
Fuck it, at least the 'perscription healthcare' is cheap, right?

>>10800120
>psych

Not science nor math.

>>10800416
>>10800120
twitter.com/JelteWicherts/status/1093770234429956096

>>10802756
>>10802760
10 years of crippling anxiety: I'm skinny, I have scoliosis and chronic contractures because of it. Sometimes my existence literally hurts me and I'm not talking about suicidal thoughs
I still didn't find a solution but at least now is easier to find one

>>10802785
keep doing cognitive behavioral therapy until it starts working

>>10802512
Someone clearly doesnt know what is meant by added benefit from new drugs...

>>10802760
>adequate diet solves everything
welcome to the joe rogan school of medicine

>>10802581
I dont think his point was about whether drugs affect your brain or not anon.

>>10802756
Refusing to take drugs out of fear shows a refusal to consider changing your life. Taking drugs does not mean you cannot change your diet and more often and can enhance your ability to change your diet. Pills can be cheap and they're pretty easy to take.

If there's something I want to change about how people treat mental health is that they tend to invest money into the wrong things. Psychologists for instance provide terrible value compared to just about anything else like improving diet or paying for a personal trainer.

Yup the pharmacutical industry is filled with new scam medications which don't have generic equivalents and aren't any better than the old ones. Doctors prescribe them anyways to patients who has their insurance paying for them even though this drives up everybodies insurance prices. Jews like money what else is new.

science works but the medical, food and pharma industry is full of bullshit.

>>10803219

>believes in pills instead of doing actually beneficial things to improve one's mental health


Before you assume I was sexually abused at a young age and had a poor diet.

Despite that I was intelligent enough to tell my therapist I never wanted to go on SSRI's and they agreed.

>>10803246
I’ve got crippling general anxiety, it lasts for hours and makes me physically ill to the point where I’m malnourished and bedridden, and the only solution seems to be SSRIs.
Prove that a better diet would help me, because I don’t see any evidence of diet helping other than placebo.

>>10803246
>intelligent enough
You don't seem intelligent enough to understand that exists people which must take pills because their lowest part of their brain is trying to destroy itself
SSRIs aren't for everyone

>>10803171
But have you tried DMT tho?

>>10803589
if you weren't on drugs then hopefully you would have died and you wouldn't be passing your shitty genes along

>only effective medication for bipolar disorder causes short-term memory loss

fuck that I'd rather stay crazy

>>10802536
It may come as a shock to many.
I'm rather inpatient when it comes to mental health systems.
At first you are comforted by the process not involving a chase couch. That a script is readily given.
But non media typical psy treatment only begs the question. What's actually the problem here?
Yes, the patients complaints of personal struggle are on paper resolved with chemical X.
But it's never really asked if the client/patient that is the thing that needs to be treated.
This is diagnosis done in 5 minuets of poor to negligible variable elimination.

I feel retrospectively retarded when saying that psychoanalytic degrees/methods aren't a science because of 'no self evident result'.
It gives more credit than the field deserves. As it suggests there's statistically correct conclusions made.
And that's even without their own bias fucking the recorded data.
Study/Testing outcome interference as a result of the designer bias or manipulation is basically a myth to psyks.
And forget about subject selection criteria adherence.

One instance I was with a personal summary report. I was floored to the inaccuracy of my self statements recorded.
I've been truly open and cooperative with the psyk. But they've felt the need to direct misquote, not just miss assume on their
notations of my statements.
I'm not talking about exaggerating feelings and frequency. But outright lies about my life. I've had third party's attest to my isolation to the psyk.
But somehow in my statements they're noted. I'm a a-typical houso junkie by self admittance. Despite these claims being impossible without direct contacts knowing about it, and to have kept quiet.

The only field that seems to seek genuine patient care, accuracy of diagnosis and treatment, is pet therapy.

I just hope to fuck I'm in a abyss of accredited diplomas gained via prostitution. Not this be the norm.

All I've seen is "Pill say they make the happy. Take the happy pills, it's the first and only measure".

>>10800120
>Only 6%
I bet if they run the tests a few more times they'd discover that is also incorrect and that placebo has a higher rate of success. The problem with psychiatry is that is isn't a science, it is nothing but hoodoo, and it is unable to reproduce results consistently.

>>10805327
Sounds like you have something interesting to say. Shame you cant fucking write coherently to save your life because i got nothing from this.

>>10805909
he's just your typical egotistical autist Namefaggot who thinks he's literally a genius. You can blatantly see it in the way he writes.

>>10803589
I don't have to prove shit to you, you lazy fuck. Better diet results in a placebo effect? That's literally the type of shit you hear from some fat lard ass who has never even put a modicum of effort into turning their health around.

Whatever you say bud keep eating your refined sugar treats, refined industrial oils, refined carbohydrates with synthetic vitamins added. Oh and don't forget, you don't need to eat real fruits and vegetables, just take your multivitamin!!!

>>10805909
No drama sheep farmer. I'm a namefag. So pulling these ramblings and correcting them when not in a meta trance can happen.
It's fucked that I'm more 'something denoting smarts' when in a state of mental drain.
Thank Yotusaba for second attempts.

Care to note my fuck ups as of now? I'm thinking it's run-on sentences.
It's hard when trying to use a string to give greater meaning to the whole, than the words in singularity exist to describe the thought.
Maybe German BBS's are for me.

>>10805939
>Care to note my fuck ups as of now?
your fuck up is assuming that we want to read your incoherent, egotistical and often irrelevant ramblings.

Make a tumblr or something for fucks sake.

>>10805935
But it's uber fun to incite a battle of wits. If you've actually payed attention to half my posts. They're layered with memes.

>>10805944
>If you've actually payed attention to half my posts.

>implying I would waste my time on such matters

>>10805938
If you had any modicum of intelligence you would know you cant determine a placebo affect based on your own experience.

And theres nothing wrong with vitamins supplementing your diet. You dont stay healthy through specific foods but the molecules in them.

>>10805958
>modicum
Plus one to this post for use of elite vocabulary

>>10805953
Yep, nothing can be gained from abstract argument.
It's the first thing anyone's taught in the academic pursuits.
Do not expose oneself to abstraction, it's the gateway to lateral thought.

>>10805969
I actually used it first in the post he's quoting.

>>10805958
>You dont stay healthy through specific foods but the molecules in them.

in theory... but this is the EXACT same fallacy that THE ENTIRE PHARMA, FOOD AND SUPPLEMENT INDUSTRY HAVE FALLEN FOR. "Don't need to eat lots of vegetables, just take a multivitamin!" "Don't have time for a meal? Just drink some Huel or Onions" It's fallacious reasoning that appeals to people's inability to make healthier choices and take control of their diet.

A tomato or any other whole food is more than THE SUM OF IT'S PARTS. We have evolved like all other life on this planet to digest whole foods, not individual nutrients and compounds. We are not even close to understanding the amount of complexity and subtlety that goes on in human metabolism. All we know clearly at this point is WHOLE PLANT FOODS = GOOD FOR HEALTH.

It's clear to me that you haven't actually researched nutrition and the incredibly limited effectiveness of most supplements and synthesized vitamins.

>>10806001
>We have evolved like all other life on this planet to digest whole foods, not individual nutrients and compounds.

Just clarifying that I obviously mean complex multi-celled life. Bacteria and single celled organisms do not eat eggs, peas or broccoli.

>>10806001
What do you actually know though let alone more than these companies and scientist? As far as I can tell all youre saying is that in our evolutionary history we've just eaten these things and because of muh complexity humans are incapable of surviving healthily any other way. Its almost something like a "God of the gaps" but for food - muh complexity. Im convinced though you dont have a clue what youre talming about. Weve been using vitamins and supplements to help sick people for decades and more recently pro athletes..

Your "evolved to" argument doesnt accept that organisms are extremely flexible and adaptable to doing things in different ways or novel things with parts not evolved to do that. Withiut that capability, evolution wouldnt even work.

Supplements and vitamins will obviously have limited effect sizes in people that are reasonably healthy.

>>10806047
>Im convinced though you dont have a clue what youre talming about. Weve been using vitamins and supplements to help sick people for decades and more recently pro athletes..

I never said they are all completely ineffective/worthless. It's like vaccines, some are effective/great at saving peoples lives, many others are literally worthless or even dangerous.

I'm simply saying that to ignore the overwhelming power of a healthy diet, continuing to eat shitty processed food and thinking you can just "take a pill" to cover your bases is incredibly dangerous.

Again you sound like someone who simply hasn't read enough of the literature behind nutrition and supplements. Look at the history of Vitamin E supplements for example.

>>10806056
I never said have an unhealthy diet though. An unhealthy diet is an unhealthy diet whether just through food, just through pills or through both. And what is this history? You dont sound like someone whos read any literature either. You just sound like every other person whos heard somethings, got an opinion and telling me I dont sound like ive read anything so that you can look abit clever.

>>10806074
literally nothing worthwhile in this post to respond to. Do some more research bud, I'm correct.

Vitamin E supplements are toxic but we didn't realize that for some time. That's what I meant by "history of Vitamin E" you fucking brainlet.

>>10806088
Presumptuous to ask me to do research when you come across as having done none either.

But anon this is completely redundant information about vitamin e. Many molecules have contraindications, side effects and can be toxic. Just like foods taken in bad proportions can be bad too. Doesnt take away from the fact that vitamins have been used for decades to help people with deficiencies successfully and so given youre taking them properly has nothing to do with the fact that taking vitamins can be a supplement or replacement to other parts of your diet. It doesnt mean they can have big effects of healthy people. It doesnt even mean they can be beneficial in large doaes for certain illnessea etc but food is ultimately replaceable because our body needs molecules not apecific foods. Ill point out also that im surprised that rather than point to evidence concerning things like muh complex metaboliam rather than this weak thing youve mentioned about toxicity.

>>10806088
Correct about what specifically?

>>10806113
that the entire supplementation and food industry is based on this fallacious idea that a food is simply the sum of it's part.

Until we can literally create an apple in a lab we will never have a "product" that promotes overall health like whole plant foods do.

>>10800120
Scientists are wageslaves aswell. They've spent years trying to study their fields, often working at McDonald's as a minijob to earn some extra cash. They end memorizing nothing more than superficial concepts and build their "career" upon the marketing of lies and false promises to gullible mouthbreathers.

>>10806129
But youre just asserting this not saying anything to justify what youre saying it. An apple cannot give someone a healthy lifestyle and isnt even necessary for a healthy lifestyle. Youve presented nothing that refutes the idea that food diets can be replaced by supplements that can give all the nutrients necessary for a healthy human lifestyle.

>>10806129
Also youre wrong about the apple thing. You dont need to be able to recreate food. All you need to do is be able to know how the body absorbs nutrients.

>https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l4340..
Jesus christ, either the people who write this shir is illiterate or they outright lie. The point of the study is that new drugs and new patent add little or no benefit to already standard drugs. This practice has been done and it's shit, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work, but that it's retarded to buy newer versions.

>>10806190
>shir is illiterate
Fuck, now I must commit sudoku.

How do we know a drug is placebo in a study?

>>10806171
good luck doing that, you seen the known map of the human metabolism? Shit's more dense than the standard model.

You need to wake up about the damage food is doing to people. What the fuck do you think is causing the obesity crisis, heart disease diabetes and cancer?

I was diagnosed with bipolar, OCD, anxiety as a kid and was given medications. This led to me being obese by age 16 and failing school. I finally stopped taking my meds at 16, started reading philosophy, eating healthy and working out. This completely changed my life around and luckily I’m very successful now at 25. Fuck pharmacy

>>10806220
Youve got this delusional idea that im promoting unhealthy food when ive said not one thing about that. We know a fair amount about the human body anon even though obviously not everything and its complicated, but we know a sufficient amount about what nutrients we need to have a healthy life. Its elementary shit. Youre just trying to overcomplicate things because you think youre a little clever man. Obviously the bodies complicated but we aint talking about having a complete knowledge of human biology or reconstructing the body. We aint looking to make supermen who have diets, exercise and schedules that are super optimal for their bodies.

>>10803589
Soounds like you could be suffering from magnesium deficiency. It's nearly impossible to diagnose (there are no tests) so just try taking some and see if it helps.

>>10802536
>science literally can't explain how pharmacology works
ftfy, modern medicine is great and all but its still very wild west tier

>>10802756
>just figure it out lol
Brilliant. While hes at it he can just figure it out next time he breaks a bone or develops cancer.

>>10803246
>actually beneficial
According to who? Specifically what things? Demonstrate that those things are beneficial.

Just kidding you dont have the answer to any of that because they dont exist.

>>10805938
>just trust me man
>I dont have to prove anything
>I dont understand what a controlled study is
>I dont understand what the placebo effect is

Stop posting on this board, you are aggressively anti intellectual

>>10802581
The question isn't if they do something, the question is if they help. From the reports it doesn't seem they work by making you realize it's nonsense that aliens put a probe in your nose. they work anywhere from not caring you have an alien probe to not even knowing what a probe is. Many people report (it seems to be "common knowledge" among psychiatric patients, even) that they started hearing voices *after* taking antipsychotics.

>>10806047
That other anon is right tho:
>multivitamins are mostly useless at best or they can even be harmful (e.g. shit product, misuse... etc)
>most multivitamins contain the shittiest and cheapest molecules, e.g. -chelates are much better absorbed by the human body, yet you will have difficulty finding actual products with this form.
>as most of our processed foods are already diluted with vitamins by taking these pills you simply 'overdose' on many of them. Not necessarily harmful, but again, a waste of money, effort, time etc...
>the human (and I guess any mammal's) gut flora is so freaking complex that we'd just started to explore the whole phenomena. Whereas a fruit or veggie contains hundreds of components a supplement will only contain a dozen at best. It is nowhere near close enough for our actual 'RDI'. We can't even map or understand the delicate ecosystem within our freaking gut.
>dietary fibers are most easily covered by whole foods too

I guess taking multis are totally useless and a waste of money, unless you have a specific disorder/deficiency ofc.
I had this period in my life where I was taking all this shit and protein shakes and I had literally zero benefit of it all, on the contrary... I wasted time, shitton of money on it, and one time I even vomited (tho this was my fault, never take casein first thing in the morning kek)

>>10807364
Already covered the issue of multovitamins being useless. If you have a normal fucking diet then obviously you wont need them and that has nothing to do with any of my points ive said. Ive already said this in my points. im not retarded.
And what you said about the sheer "complexity" of veggies? not so sure. The huge diversity of fruit and vegetables we eat or even the lack of really does narrow down by a large amount the essential things we need. Regardless of whether Im buying a vitamin D tablet on the market is irrelevant as to whether we can replace nutrients in foods with pills. Its absolutely possible. And quite frankly, based on how other people live, I think you might actually be overestimating the value of knowinf about the full complexity of our "gut flora" and thats even considering that there are products on the market today that actually are geared toward that.
Also the money you wasted on it is irrelevant. Benefit? Why would you expect any benefit beyond a normal healthy diet?