/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10794862
better question would be subpopulation performance for the US and UK

>>10794875
a lot of countries oversample sub-administrative regions in order to have reliable estimates for those regions, if that's what you're asking

>>10794862
>Estonia, Finland
Their Asian genes are really coming in handy right now.

>>10794879

bad, very bad

>>10794881

Estonia is Indo-European as fuck mate

>>10794862
There is media blackout pretty much anything regarding belarus, but they have a ton of talented science people, programmers and engineers. Someone who doesnt know anything about belarus might think they are technologically backward af but I personally been there and they are more advanced than pretty much any east european country in eu.
Also not having progressive eu influence culture and education means they can teach their people actual science and math in traditional way and avoid liberal bs

>>10794862
the pizza who ah nowah whatta?
Make Money

>>10795163
Yamna you mean, because neither Estonian nor Finnish are Indo-European languages but Uralic

>>10795179
>There is media blackout pretty much anything regarding belarus, but they have a ton of talented science people, pr

Lol.

>>10794862
5 more months till they publish the results.

>>10797546
yes, generally it's the first week of December

>>10794875
>>10794862

>>10797961
>US scores by ethnicity
really makes you think

>>10794862
>UMMM, purely economic factors

>>10798868
>>10794862

>>10797967

Yeah it does, according to that PISA chart African Americans score better than Turkey and Thailand. And performs on par with Moldova and Uruguay.

For the record Turkey and Thailand's national IQ average is 90-91. While Moldova and Uruguay is 96. Which means they clearly are at the very least in the 88-90 range. It's probably safe to say 90 IQ average at this point since it doesn't violate the black-white sd difference.

Hispanics seem to be 93-95 IQ, Multi-racial 95-97 IQ, White and Asian 104-105 IQ.

I'm basing this on the IQ by nation stats against the PISA 2015 chart the anon posted.

https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html

>>10799596
One could easily make an argument, spending per student doesn't represent how those students are distributed.

say 10% are naturally high scorers, 80% are average, and there are 10% trash-tier.

It could cost not much to get the top 10% through testing, and costs would be spent on mitigating "lower quality" candidates from getting in. Reaching the majority would cost much more, and bring averages down, but it's obvious at least a good deal of the majority can be productive enough to compensate for their cost.

The bottom 10% might cost 10-100x more per person than the 80% majority and get lower grades, but depending on economic situation, that could be enough to cover their cost, or more likely, mitigates how much deleterious effect they have (crime, welfare, etc) and the social inequality which prevents at-risk individuals in that environment from succeeding. A decent example is China used to say went "we have doctors working rice paddies".

>>10799714
first of all PISA is not an IQ test, and PISA is only representative for 15-year-olds that are currently at school while IQ test generally are for a specific cohort

Furthermore, we don't really have good data for national IQ in a lot of countries, and most of Lynn/Vanhanen/Becker is made up or does not come from psychometric assessments, best place to look for IQ in I think would be humanvarieties.org/2013/01/19/the-human-varieties-global-i-q-dataset

>>10799748
money can't buy brains (yet)

>>10797961
So black Americans outdo the two heavily black countries on the list (Trinidad/Tobago, Dominican Republic), hispanic Americas outdo most of the Latin American countries, and white Americans outdo most European countries. But Asian Americans are right behind most of the Asian countries.

So the obvious conclusion is that American schools are failing to meet Asian students needs.

>>10797961
I love the racially insensitive color-coding, Steve Sailer is great.
>>10799846
Remember that black Americans have a lot more European admixture than the people in black countries, which probably contributes to their higher scores. Something similar with hispanics, I guess.

>>10799846
If you're believing all the numbers are accurate, Asian-Americans would more likely come from Asians that would've had difficulty succeeding in their host nation, otherwise, why the fuck would you move?

In actuality the numbers from many Asian countries are probably rigged. They have a huge anti-western sentiment, so anything they can do to claim superiority, they'll do. China used to claim they had no Down's Syndrome, and I think by extension, retards. They were obviously being retarded, but no one called them on it. The numbers would be curved up slightly by some of those nation's hyper-aggressive study/school culture. Japan has a lot of problems with its youth right now, because it's been in a pseudo-boom phase for so long that a generation has been able to break the horrendous "obey, study, die". I say pseudo boom, because what happened was for the longest time, Japan's culture worked, until the 80s-90s hit, and they recklessly abandoned rewarding people for work because of how much money it saved. Back in the day, someone could easily work at the same company, and expect to be promoted, and only a few years ago, the government had a fake-work program they cut to save money. Across the board, the rich are getting richer and the poor/average aren't, and "younger" Japanese are checking out. You can also easily tell it started in the 80s-90s because that's when their reproductive rates started tanking, and now the majority of their 30-40 y/os have no kids.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/07/japan-mystery-low-birth-rate/534291/

>>10799856

That logic might work with Trinidad but the Dominican Republic is mostly admixed. Also some of those black countries like Ethiopia are easily in a similar boat in terms of Eurasian admixture.

It isn't just the admixture, there's clearly other factors contributing to the scores.

>>10799882
>In actuality the numbers from many Asian countries are probably rigged
only country to have ever "cheated" on PISA is Kazakhstan actually, then there are other countries that didn't meet PISA strict standards in order to have their results published, that has never happened on an East Asian country

More information can be found on the PISA FAQ at the OECD PISA website or on the technical reports

>>10800233
>there are other countries that didn't meet PISA strict standards in order to have their results published

In PISA 2000: Austria, The Netherlands, Luxembourg and the United Kingdom
In PISA 2003: United Kingdom
In PISA 2006: United States (reading literacy scores only)
In PISA 2009: Austria
In PISA 2015: Argentina (except CABA), Malaysia and Kazakhstan

Again, full story is at the technical reports

>>10799856
>Steve Sailer is great
I agree. Steve Sailer is great because he tells the truth and makes sure to disregard your feelings while doing so.

>>10799856
>>10800254

>Steven Ernest Sailer (born December 20, 1958) is an American journalist, movie critic, and columnist. He is a former correspondent for UPI and a columnist for Taki's Magazine and VDARE.com, a website associated with white supremacy,[1][2] white nationalism,[3][4][5] and the alt-right.[6][7][8]. He writes about race relations, gender issues, politics, immigration, IQ, genetics, movies, and sports. As of 2014, Sailer stopped publishing his personal blog on his own website and shifted it to the Unz Review, an online publication by Ron Unz that described itself as an "alternative media selection".[9]

Ah yes the real scientist and his real science. Not like all that libshit nonsense.

>>10794879
I was more talking about a breakdown of scores by ethnicity in multicultural western states
>>10800012
The dominican republic doesn’t have nw european admixture they have enlightenment era spanish admixture and ethiopia has neolithic middle eastern admixture. its not even remotely comparable to african americans
>>10799714
Black americans are better fed and educated than Islamist Turks and Thai, you didn’t even ballpark black iq either because its probably around 85-90 and much lower in the southern US

>>10800261
the source comes from the "PISA 2015 Database" www.oecd.org/pisa/data not from Sailer so what's your point

>>10797553
>>10797546
I just checked and they have already confirmed that they'll publish the results the 3rd of December

>>10800261
You don't have the courage to read Sailer. His research does not get critiqued and instead his character gets attacked. Good luck finding an honest critique of his work and not his character.

You are completely unaware that Leftism is a religion and the dominant one at that. He is a journalist.

>>10800261
Sailer mostly just curates research from legitimate sources and offers cultural commentary from a fresh, racist perspective.
Do you think he just made up the data in the graph or something?

>>10800293
The point is that you pretend to be on the side of science and yet an unaccredited uneducated buffoon is your leader.

>>10800314
I don't need any courage not to read the ramblings of a nutjob. Let him publish his papers if he has anything worthwhile to say. Then I will read those peer reviewed papers and the reaction they generate from other scientists.

>>10800367
>curates
A.K.A propaganda. You can easily push whatever agenda you want if you "curate" the research rather than provide the actual consensus (if any) or the multiple viewpoints if not. And frankly, as a non-expert in the field, neither him, nor you will have the actual capacity to read and interpret the actual science, so even if he was intellectually honest (which we both know he isn't) and somehow not biased (which we both know he is), he's still not be capable of curating anything.

>>10800267

>Black americans are better fed and educated than Islamist Turks and Thai,

While this is most likely true it's debatable to what extent they are since outside the American Amerindian population African Americans are supposed to be lower on the health/education attainment than Hispanics, Whites and Asians. Also Turkey and Thailand's HDI are higher than even China. With Turkey still being higher than China even after adjusting for inequality. Turkey and Thailand are not hurting too bad for either resource but they can do better.

>you didn’t even ballpark black iq either because its probably around 85-90 and much lower in the southern US

I did ball park their IQ and it can't be lower than 88-90 IQ range at this point because for them to outperform the nations of Thailand, Turkey, Uruguay, Moldova along with Albania too with IQ averages that range from 90-96 implies nearly equal or better capacity. This 88-90 range also falls in line with the Black-White sd difference since it would imply a 88-104 or 90-105 IQ difference of 15-16 points. Truthfully it's low balling them because it assumes they didn't close the black-white gap and if the difference is actually 88-104 IQ the gap actually increased to 16 points.

Saying that Blacks are still averaging 85 IQ while Whites are 104-105 (better than Switzerland, Netherlands, Norway and able to compete with South Korea going by the PISA chart) implies the IQ gap is 19-20 points. No research study I have read notates such a gap.

>>10797961
this is the exact moment /pol/tards enter this thread, i guess there is nothing to see here anymore.

>>10794879
>Alberta second highest Canadian province.

Surprising when you hear shitlibs complain about it constantly.

>>10795179
http://www.unz.com/akarlin/belorussians-are-quite-bright/

Imagine a United States 90% composed of Finns with a minority of Italians for some spice

We'd be on Mars by now

>>10801445

Japan, South Korea and China exist. Even without "Western" ethics holding them back they can't even get on the moon.

From Lynn

>>10801460

They're not very creative or ambitious. Even today it seems like China's #1 goal is just to steal American tech.

>>10801445
>300 million Fingols

>>10800846
White-black SAT score differential hasn’t closed, there is no evidence of blacks gaining ground in education in America. Black women have higher uni admissions than white males but that has nothing at all to do with performance on standardized tests.
>Turkey and Thailand have higher HDI than China
and China has an average iq of 105 with the second largest economy and military on the planet.

>>10801460
I think south korea and japan economies are too reliant on production of conser electronics. If they stopped making all those useless cameras, tvs, game consoles, they could then concentrate on stuff like space exploration, fusion etc at least for a very short while until they go bancrupt

>>10801497

>White-black SAT score differential hasn’t closed

Where did I state it closed? I literally stated the black-white sd difference is still 15 points. Possibly 16 with a 1 point gain for Whites. The PISA scores clearly highlights this.

>there is no evidence of blacks gaining ground in education in America

Against White Americans? True. Against their own demographic history? False. African Americans are much more literate, educated and professionally well off then they were in the past. The only thing they are worse off in is health specifically obesity/diabetes. But America in general including Whites are worse off in that respect compared to past. I don't even see why this is controversial. Black Americans having 88-90 IQ and White Americans having 104-105 IQ still means the SD gap holds up. The only change is that everyone's scores just went up because the education/nutrition/quality of life increased across the board.

>and China has an average iq of 105 with the second largest economy and military on the planet

This is all true and their HDI would probably be higher if they didn't have over a billion people to support. The point is Turkey and Thailand aren't economically deprived countries with no access to decent education and food.

>>10801471
(Belarus has an IQ of 101.6)

>>10801619
Never been to Thailand but I can say for sure that while turkey isnt economically deprived on paper, in reality it is. Pretty much any non first world country is, because while one isnt starving to death, receiving 100$ a month in wages leaves little room for intelectual development.
Now this might be unpopular opinion but when pajeets study under a street lamp and someone in the west who has almost everything provided by state, dem programs and by rich parents and cant even graduate high school means that decline of the west is real and high iq has little to do with it, because why study when you already have everything you want or need.

>>10801619
China's HDI is relatively low because they went went through decades of hard core communism; that screws up development for any group. Compare their economic growth with Taiwan's, for example. It is interesting to think on how wealthy and powerful China would be right now if the Nationalist had won, and they didn't have those decades of economic stagnation.

>>10801497
>Black women have higher uni admissions than white males but that has nothing at all to do with performance on standardized tests.

I'm pretty sure that statistic comes from calculating college progression as a percentage of high school graduates of each race who enter college, but this overlooks
a) the massive high school dropout rate of Blacks
b) the fact that they enter less elite institutions in less competitive programs
c) they're far less likely to graduate

>>10801619
Don’t you think its significant that in spite of improved schooling much higher calorie availability and reduced violent crime that black-white iq gap hasn’t closed even a small amount since desegregation? I’ll grant there has probably been about a 5 iq increase for AA’s which is well supported by studies but that whites have also gained about as much on average which sort of implies the gap can never be closed. Rather significant, which was my point with regard to standardized test scores by ethnicity. If education does not improve standardized test scores and does not improve group iq then nothing can be done and a new approach needs to be taken. Selective breeding is of course an option, as are many other things that the public at this point probably would not be comfortable with but that make more sense than dumping money into education.
>quality of life went up across the board
Suicide rate, overdose rate, obesity rate, divorce rate relatively static, family formation much lower. Seems as if things have stagnated.

>>10801684
>massive hs dropout rate
overwhelmingly from black male teenagers dropping out, black women have higher iq, ea and financial prospects than black males. the only group I can think of with that kind of female biased disparity.
>less likely to enter elite institutes
because they have significantly lower SAT/ACT scores, GPA and 1 SD lower average iq than white women.
>less likely to graduate
also less likely to take a STEM degree to enter grad school and to receive a PhD in a rigorous field. All can be easily explained by the iq gap which again has not changed such that it would close the gap in any meaningful way. So again we’re left with the very interesting phenomena where after trillions spent on education, affirmative action, forced integration we still see a huge achievement disparity and one now has to ask what we should do short of genetic engineering (doesn’t exist for complex behavioral traits, probably never will) or selective breeding (have fun selling this to Americans).

>>10801689
On average blacks have lower iq, this is scientific fact, its not racist or discriminatory. They can still do uni and have good jobs they just have to work harder. The reality is that most of them dont want to put in the effort. The leftist understand this so they make all these programs where blacks have to be selected before whites and dumbing down education. Thats clearly not enough, so the next step was/is to discriminate and lower whites life quality and opportunities so much that their development and resultant iq drops significantly (common core, legalisation of drugs, liberalism etc) again problem with that more blacks actually fall for that trap. I dont what they are going to do next, probably a massive push for race mixing like never seen before. There isnt anything else ruling class can do.

>>10801689

>Don’t you think its significant that in spite of improved schooling much higher calorie availability and reduced violent crime that black-white iq gap hasn’t closed even a small amount since desegregation?

I actually don't think it's that significant because this gap is about Black Americans and White Americans. Even if the gap never closes (barring eugenics or genetic engineering) it doesn't change the fact that Black Americans are making gains and those gains are starting to match and exceed several non-black majority countries.

>If education does not improve standardized test scores and does not improve group iq then nothing can be done and a new approach needs to be taken

Except it has improved the scores/IQ it just hasn't closed the gap. If the issue is about bridging the gap then yes new approaches will have to be made (I personally think tackling the high cortisol-low birth weight rate is a good non-controversial start). If the issue is just about making general gains then the gap isn't a complete show stopper.

>Suicide rate, overdose rate, obesity rate, divorce rate relatively static, family formation much lower.

Outside family formation (which is a legitimate issue that's increased) everyone else is dealing with the same problems

>>10801701
I agree with you mate. I'm just explaining the context of that statistic for the reader.

>>10801772
>black americans are making gains
what gains are they making? stagnant test scores, huge income disparity with non-blacks, significant mortality rates from preventable disease much higher than those for other groups and declining fertility with extremely slow iq gains in a period spanning 60+ years doesn’t seem like a significant gain. If you account for the flynn effect there probably hasn’t been any serious improvement at all.
>cortisol and low birth rate
How are you going to do anything about physiological deficiencies that stem from self perpetuating poverty and poor decision making? Are you trying to say that childhood stress and maternal nutrition account for most of the iq gap? If that’s the case then why do upper middle class black highschools still underperform relative to middleclass white highschools? Why are wealthy black college students still worse performers on the GRE?
>the continuous gap between black and white americans isn’t important
If it never improves and if Asians continue to pull away from blacks then there’s no way that incremental flynn effect dominated socially costly improvement is useful. The only possible solution is selective breeding which does work though is not necessarily politically feasible. If you encouraged only wealthy blacks to breed above replacement and intermarriage between wealthy blacks and whites, asians, jews then you could probably over a few generations begin to close the gap but you are now selecting for traits more common in other racial demographics which is again highly significant in its own right. Every alternative is just a means of bandaging a gushing wound that never heals.

>>10799846
>>10800012
Trinidad and Tobago is not "heavily black", here's the racial/ethnic breakdown according to the 2011 Census:

East Indian 35.43%
Africans 34.22%
Mixed, Other 15.16%
Mixed, African/East Indian 7.66%
Caucasian 0.59%
Chinese 0.30%
Indigenous 0.11%
Syrian/Lebanese 0.08%
Portuguese 0.06%

>>10801679
>It is interesting to think on how wealthy and powerful China would be right now if the Nationalist had won
they would be EU/America's bottom bitch, and probably irrelevant as fuck, because they are way too big to prop up with foreign money like SK or Japan and they wouldn't have the benefit of turning peasant shithole into industrial superpower in 40 years through the power of total societal control and mountain of corpses, like the CCP had

>>10801500
>I think south korea and japan economies are too reliant on production of conser electronics
Japan has been the country with the highest Index of Economic Complexity (based on exports) for years, and South Korea is not far behind
oec.world/en/rankings/country/eci/?year_range=2013-2017

>>10801772
>everyone else is dealing with the same problems
if by "everyone else" you meant "only whites and natives" you're right

>>10794862
Israel

Why are we talking about race in a Pisa thread?

>>10800012
>Ethiopia are easily in a similar boat in terms of Eurasian admixture.

Still vastly african.

>>10802515
fucking Americans!

>>10799846
>most of the Asian countries
Asian-Americans are above Vietnam, Thailand and Indonesia and I bet they are also above all other Asian countries in South Asia, South-East Asia and North Korea

>>10795179
blogs.worldbank.org/ru/europeandcentralasia/why-pisa-important-milestone-education-belarus

>>10799882
I don't know what you wrote have to do with this thread, but population ageing and low fertility rates is happening all over the developed world, it's not something specific to Japan