/sci/ - Science & Math

Op here, Credit where credit is due I will add that this came from the boys over in a /GIF/ Slime thread

>>10753669
An idea I had would be to not only use fluid but but base the slime as a whole off of cell with lipid barriers

>>10753669
what's a nanite? Why would they be in a viscous fluid?
>>slime/viscous fluid controlled
how the FUCK do you control a fluid? I've heard of claytronics, where you can have little robots attach to each other and roll over each other. If they do so sufficiently fast they could behave fluid like.
>>by swarm
and that's where we run into problems. We don't have good decentralized pattern formation algorithms. We've also found that pattern formation algorithms can fail due to extremely rare errors becoming a problem when large numbers of robots are used:
https://ssr.seas.harvard.edu/files/ssr/files/aamas2017-gauci.pdf

As the size of the swarm increase, we must deal with rarer and rarer errors. As for making small robots, currently it is extremely difficult to make self contained robots smaller than a couple of centimeters.

>>10753669
OP here something else I forgot to add was I would like to try and stay away from the topic of us as humans becoming slimes as some sort of trans-humanism next step. Mainly because it's such a complicated topic it would cut into the discussion of ai swarm based slime girls.

So please just make another thread if that's what you wish to discuss.

>>10753723
wtf man

>>10753710
>>what's a nanite?
A nanite is a nano machine (See: https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/nanomachine-nanite))

>>Why would they be in a viscous fluid?
Well many different possible reasons, here are a few I thought up 1. They could induce or control moment through some means 2. They could act as organelles to the overall slime structure doing various maintenance/cleaning task

>>How the FUCK do you control a fluid?
Please see attached image, of course it would have to be scaled up but it's a start

>>swarm and that's where we run into problems
I had the same concern instead if dedicating massive amounts of processing power each and every nanite for say complex movements you have groups within groups all with their own leaders (This idea is based on finding some "fluid" which can be controlled by nanites)

>>10753748
I mean I be willing to give you an answer if you told me what you're "wtfing" at. Unless of course it's the idea as a whole then well, yes it's a bit out there to say the least but, it's an interesting challenge non the less. I just enjoy trying to figure out how to make something like this work it's like solving a puzzle of sorts

>>10753751
You are an idiot and probably no education beyond 1st semester state college

>>10753751
what's a nano machine?
>> control moment through some means
you are not being explicit enough here.
>>organelles to the overall slime structure doing various maintenance/cleaning task
and this controls the slime how? Why do they need to clean the slime?
>> with their own leaders
how do you decide who those leaders are, how do these leaders collaborate with each other? How do you get the followers to follow the leaders orders. That would still be susceptible to errors.
>> "fluid" which can be controlled by nanites
and how would that be accomplished?

>>10753710
>>10753751
I forgot to attach the image my bad

>>10753761
This might involve nanomachines which can be liquid or solid at room temperature based on their configuration or structural property. The viscosity can be varied by increasing/decreasing chain lengths of nanomachines, similar to polymers.

>>10753774
With this idea, I think the slime structure could be accomplished with liquid polymer-like nanites. Changing the structure would just involve mechanical interactions between the nanites, to move certain parts of the slime to other areas.

>>10753770
I was gonna write out another long explanation like my last response but I'll pass for two reasons
1. I gave you a link to the definition man use it
2. I think you misunderstood the purpose of this thread, I don't have any solid idea on how to make the idea actually work I'm just putting my general ideas out there for others to build off of

>>10753669
Stop watching porn.

>>10753772
ok great, but how do you do that with your so called nano machines?
>>10753774
>>be liquid or solid at room temperature based on their configuration or structural property
how? Ok great you can vary viscosity, now how do you move?
>>10753779
>mechanical interactions between the nanites
what type of mechanical interactions? Now how do you make something that does that?
>>10753794
>>A nanomachine, also called a nanite, is a mechanical or electromechanical device whose dimensions are measured in nanometers
what the fuck kind of definition is that? I can measure the dimensions of my car in nanometers

>>10753774
>>10753779
Is your overall idea to have the entire mass be nanites wouldn't it be simpler to treat it like a massive single cell organism, where nanites are only a small percent of the "slime's" overall mass?

>>10753801
Your obliviously not from around her just GTFO

Ok so here's an idea: you put the nanites in a predetermined shape, then you freeze them, and then you remove the thing which created the shape.

Then it would keep the shape until defrozen, and the nanites could have any shape in the world.

Patent pending.

>>10753811
Yeah, but I think it would be simpler for it to all be polymers of nanites, and the nanites can be coated in slime.

As for the mechanical interactions, you can create a mechanical movement by latching the nanite polymers together and contracting them, so the nanite polymers would be able to move in a tentacle manner.

>>10753850
The nanite polymers here would move in a tentacle-like manner, but the main mass could have any shape.

>>10753835
I'm sorry, but you're not explicit enough here.
>>10753842
then why not do that with plastic instead of supposed nanites?
>>10753850
>> the nanites can be coated in slime
At the nanoscale slime's fucking sphaghetti. If your nanites are the size of bacteria. Moving through said slime will be difficult. Part of the reason we make mucus is because it's difficult for bacteria to move through it.
Now go learn what reynolds number is
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3c5f/55df33f44ef64daa7fdaeb307e5b2da20228.pdf
>> latching the nanite polymers together
how
>>contracting them
how
>> polymers would be able to move in a tentacle manner
I don't understand how a chain of stuff that can just contract can move like a tentacle. But lets ignore all that. How do you build these supposed nanites capable of latching to each other, contracting, and forming macroscale shapes in the first place? And I'd imagine you're going to need a fair amount of computation and control to form desired patterns, how do you even get that?

>>10753850
What if you had a fluid where when electrolyzed it would hold it's shape and then you could have nanites create a kind of stasis field in and have them positioned in a cube pattern

>>10753871
ok so how the FUCK do you accomplish that?

>>10753869
You don't understand how a nanite polymer would move like a tentacle? It's simple. Just connect nanites together into a polymer, then each nanite can actuate. It's not that complicated. Imagine how a large version would work, it would be a chain of spheres each nanite is like a sphere. To move in a tentacle manner, each sphere can rotate the adjacent spheres using internal actuators. You can rotate the adjacent spheres toward or away from each other, and orthogonally.

>>10753881
So you said contract before, you did not say rotate so that was not clear. Isn't it nice being explicit with your ideas? So how do you build these so called nanites?

>>10753887
You can contract them by rotating in a sinusoidal or helical manner. I thought it was easy enough to understand. Anyway, you would use nanoengineering, but that would be complicated.

>>10753887
man who shoved that stick up your ass calm down
not trying to be a dick, I just noticed you sound well angry or frustrated

>>10753891
And how do you achieve sinusoidal or helical motion in the first place? Why choose one over the other?
>>but that would be complicated
as they say, the devil is in the details. If you can't elaborate on how to build such things, this thread is simply pointless masturbation. If you can't elaborate how these things are done you are effectively relying on magic.
>>10753902
people treating nanotechnology like fucking magic have made it difficult to fund the sort of work we need to make nanotechnology that is almost magic possible. At the same time we see work that is basically a dead end taking advantage of the magical nanites meme. The field of microswimmers is an example of this.

>>10753913
Helical contraction is more efficient than sinusoidal contraction. Helical contraction just involves reconfiguring into a helix shape with a progressively decreasing inter-spiral length. A helix shape is achieved by actuating each nanite in a particular manner needed to create a helix shape. It could be done with a closed form algorithm.

>>10753933
>>helical contraction is more efficient
prove it
>>actuating each nanite in a particular manner
damn dude you should write patents, cause that is vague as fuck.
>>algorithm
What does your helix algorithm do if a nanite is broken or if there is some debris in the way? algorithms can't make stuff move on their own. What do you use as actuators and how do you arrange them to form helices and latch to each other and what not?

>>10753950
Helixes are more dense than sines. It's geometry.

Anyway, I just told you how the polymers are designed. It isn't hard to see how they would contract based on the design. Just think it through. Once the endpoints are latched onto other polymers, you could configure the polymer into a helix shape. To bring the endpoints closer together just configure the polymer into a slightly denser helix, and continue until the helix is compacted as much as possible. It isn't complicated to determine how it would work just based on the polymer nanite concept. If you can't figure it out then sorry, you have to understand mathematics and engineering.

>>10753992
>>just think it through
translation: it's magic, I don't have to explain shit. What is in your individual nanite to make with respect to other nanites to form part of a helix?
>>you have to understand mathematics and engineering
you clearly don't understand mathematics and engineering. Providing proof is important in math, it is just as important to provide proof that a design will work in engineering. You have not given me any reason to believe that this half baked idea is even remotely possible.
Here have this:
http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/9609lego.htm

>>10754301
I'll let you think it through. It's just an idea I came up with for a thread about slime girls. I don't want to figure it out, you piss me off.

>>10754301
I'll let you think it through. It's just an idea I came up with for a thread about slime girls. I don't want to figure it out for you, you piss me off.

>>10754301
OP HERE AGAIN
PISS THE FUCK OFF wanted to try and be nice but you just keep shitting on my thread. All I wanted was to have a fun light hearted discussion on the topic I was really looking forwards to that.

But you with your incessant nagging on us explain how every little thing woks has driven people away from the thread. Dude this isn't a fucking exam or some science journal we can throw around some absurd ideas. Your not protecting any field like nano tech by shitting up threads on a damn basket weaving forum.

Go be an OCD Autist somewhere else, and I unironically hope someone gasses you, you miserable excuse for a human.

>wanting to fuck a fluid

>>10754410
>imagine getting upset because of posts on an anonymous forum in a thread about "slime girls"
yeah that's a yikes from me

>>10754785
Eh yeah I haven't slept in 36 hours, honestly I wouldn't usually make a post like that.

>>10754869
nigga go to bed

>>10754877
Man I would but I got my Italian exam

>tfw no J-lube mechaflubber gf

>>10753669
Okay guys....I research AI and I have had years to consider this problem. Do you want my solution ?

>>10755081
Oh well. No-one is home . Bye.

>>10753801
Why are you so mad?

>>10753869
>hey guys here's an idea
>yeah but HOW >:(
Christ faggot shut up

>>10754410
U mad bro?
>>10755117
I got an idea, wouldn't it be great if we had unicorns? Let's have a whole thread to discuss how awesome unicorns are

damn bro u fucking mad. So you see we ain't anywhere close to 'nanomachines.' I must say that I absolutely detest the words nanomachine and nanite because they effectively mean nothing, so in order to make it mean something I shall define nanomachine to mean a machine or system with components smaller than 1 micrometer which exhibit controlled motion and perform mechanical work. Where we define controlled motion to significantly differ from purely diffusive or thermal motion. That's far. We need wholly new manufacturing processes to make said things. The current process which we think could be used to make said things practically, mechanosynthesis, may not be possible. There might be a way we could cheat using photorheological fluid and tiny swimming(more like drilling at this scale) robots with LEDs on them to change viscosity of fluid in places. We might vary viscosity from water to pitch. Making tiny swim bots is gonna be hard. Plus I wouldn't fug photorheological fluid. That shit's nasty. Control's interesting. I guess at low Reynolds # flow is easier to deal with, but still. But we can also do important work towards this at the macroscale. So bro there's this whole field of self reconfiguring modular robots. Check it out. Really most of the problem is software and even dumb neets can help with that.

>>10755632
>I wouldn't fug X
coward

>>10753669
I'd say 20+ years before these things happen.

>>10755882
generally most photoactive things have weird and nasty chemicals

>>10756871
so put a condom on

bump

>>10753669
Just like slime mould, a bunch of cells that work together through cell signalling.

>>10754923
You must be 18 years or older to post on 4chan.
I’m guessing you’re in high school since you just learned about how cells move themselves in biology.

>>10753669
Close, but where do you find a clear electrical conducting viscous fluid? They will just look solid. Where is my see through waifu anon?!

>>10753669
You can power this off of a thermo electric conduit. Making either a core or multiple thousands of mini cores throughout the body.

>>10758235
Paramagnetic fluid + Magnetic Food Coloring

YOU ARE WELCOME FUCKING INGRATE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUKFaxy-z7s

>>10758287
Thank The Elder Gods, we may have lost magic, but we sure as hell can get it back.

amoebae
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature03481?draft=journal

>>1075790
No I'm just not well versed at all in Cellular Biology I simply googled an image of cell movement, my interest lean towards physics and math which is why I'm in my second year of astrophysics

Your average slimegirl physiology has several fascinating aspects.

1.
>SENTIENCE

Unlike mammals, reptiles, avians, etc., a slime is sentient throughout its body. Since (ecologicallly speaking) they are little more than sentient jellies, the usual metabolic rules of a common medusa apply. It is unclear (hint hint, OP) where their evolution diverged from Medusozoa, but integral and essential to their physiology is the ability to control the shape and texture of the fluid-like substances composing their body.

2.
>GENETICS

Being fully sentient throughout their body, the Gelanomythica do not possess an immanent form but rather appear to bloom with a proclivity toward the habits that compose their default frame. Since the entire physiology is effectively nervous tissue, this means that common slimes can alter their default form by changing their habits. (This is the form they assume when asleep and in a relaxed state.)

3.
>LIFE CYCLE

Despite the colloquial suffix, all slimes are able to reproduce asexually. While the daughter slime will have the same personality as its parent, sufficient neural exclusion allows a slime to clone itself to its initial state as a bloomling. This can artificially length the apparent lifetime of a slime, but it is looked down upon by older members of slime society, as it is considered wasteful to discard one's memories (and interpersonal connections) outside of scientific study.

It is far more common for a male-resemblant slime to initiate a child by creating a series of spams meant to randomize the neural tissue of the bloom-to-be while the female-playing-make generate an excluded neural section seeded with an imprint of the "egg" from which its species has learned to formate itself, in a ritual highly reminiscent to that of the culture found in the metamorphic bug people of Nyglat 6.

4.
>METABOLISM

When a highly sapient slime sheds enough mass to reduce its body size to that of an egg,

>you can take it from here folks

>>10758756
yeah fuck off nigger none of those are science

>>10758235
just make a water based slime and add salt. But really, why do you need a clear electrically conducting fluid? It won't help with delivering power or changing shape.
>>10758287
that's completely different from what anon asked. If you're trying to use said fluid to change shapes, the effect is rather insignificant without the paramagnetic fluid being immersed in a fluid with the same density. In addition, how would you use magnetic fields to form shapes anyway? It's also worth noting that devices which create magnetic fields do not scale down well.
>>10758244
>>thermo electric conduit
what's a thermoelectric conduit? I am guess it has something to do with thermoelectrics, so how do you obtain a temperature differential?
>>10757885
so how do you get said cells to form different shapes and do so rapidly? How do you build said cells? If said cells are biological, how do you keep them alive without a circulatory system.

>>10754410
Thread is atrocious. Literally this entire board is for speculation. Explanations are as good as science to anyone who knows what they're doing.

>>10758794
>keep them alive without a circulatory system
The slime is the circulatory system and this is apparently brainlet hour. Thanks for ruining a shit thread everyone.

>>10758762
Define "science" per your understanding.

>>10758833
if you just want to masturbate to slime fantasies you should go to /tg/ or /d/

>>10758839
/x/ used to have threads about speculative biology/evolution. I came here from there. "Just nanite everything" is never a solution because microorganisms already make fairly efficient use of physical processes at that scale.

My slimegirls can evolve. That's far more science than anything else posted here.

>>10758852
>a slime is sentient throughout its body
actual nonsense
you also don't seem to understand what genetics are
you're writing a fiction, and fiction isn't science

>>10758756
Correct me if I'm wrong but your taking this more in the way of creating a sentient slime being who similar to but not exactly like a large single celled organism (I do realize that it wouldn't be single celled just giving an example). If that's the case, then honestly I think your suggestion is the best and easiest (still overwhelming difficult but easy compare to other solutions) to create a "Slime Girl".

I will try to address/list the main issues/ideas with this approach of creating a slime girl

>Overall Structure/General Mass
There are 2 options I see for the general structure of a slime girl and they are as follows:

1. The slime girls structure is one or several very large cells working together as a single celled or large multi-celled organism. As >>10757885
pointed out a type of mold already does something similar to this and it could be used as a starting point

2. The slime girls structure is made up of many thousands of cells or even millions of cells which can either form large "super cells" where many cells are contained together in a large cell or many cells in all suspend in a chosen fluid which is all contained in one massive making up the outside layer of the slime girl, in which they can move freely to do their task using the fluid as a means of movement.

>Cons/Deciding factors

1. The reason for minimizing the amount of cells in #1 is the hope that "the less cells there are the more it will diminish the complexity of the overall system" a possible issue with this idea is that there is a point of diminishing return which causes a system of several cells or less to be more or just as complicated as a organism with many cells, in which case we would need to find out if the diminishing return of simplicity is caused by an increase or decrease of cells; if both an increase and a decrease of cells causes the issue of a lack of simplicity then the best balance between those those two diminishing returns should be found and implemented.

>>10758876
I HIT WORD LIMIT COUNT IN NEXT POST

>>10758858
>fiction isn't science
>>>/out/

All science starts as science fiction.

>>10758925
all science fiction starts as science and extrapolations from that science
you're starting from fiction and will only end with fiction

>>10758876
>diminish the complexity of the overall system
That's not what you want; you'd only be limiting the upper limit of intelligence of the slimegirl. The goal is to figure out how to make something sentient that can assume a particular shape with minimal metabolic effort. The direction I went was meant to give the slimes a "resting" shape, whereas a different metabology might mean that maintain a shape takes "effort" on the part of the slime, and when they tire they become less viscous and pool out more. I tended toward the former because if the two types could interbreed, then I'm pretty sure the ones with a default shape end up selected for. I could see "inability to maintain viscosity" being a sort of disability in slime society (for descendants of the latter resting physiology).

The thing is, you're not trying to make an efficient organism; the point of being a slime is that it does everything manually. It might not even be able to digest food unless it exerts conscious effort to invoke that aspect of its goo. It isn't wrong to think of a slimegirl being able to "communicate" with/"understand" slime molds on an innate level, because the act of maintaining inner composition is fundamentally identical on a very chemical level that should necessarily affect slimegirl behavior.

>>10758936
Platitudes are neither argumentation nor valid reasoning.

>>10758794
That is the beauty of it.
The cores can be whatever you want, so long as they provide sufficient energy. Ideally, the entire structure would be powered from trillions of undetectable cells to keep it clear like water, however, until we get there, just jam a variable wave frequency generator or two in the paramagnetic fluid and viola. Instant blob of varying shape. As for giving it sentience, just wait until a quantum or standard chip with proper rand() functions can sustain and create memories with evolving characteristics.

>>10759162
Anything from lithium to nuclear.

we can turn a cockroach into a cyborg that can be remote controlled.

Why can't we do that with slime mold?? Control it's movements. It's shape. Force it to assume the shape of a slime girl?

>>10759253
Slime mold doesn't have a nervous system. It's just blindly searching for food, and changing its shape/structure only when it finds new nutrients.

>>10759162
Feel free to figure out how to power these nanites.
If you know anything about cell migration then you will understand the scale of actin and the required size of these nanites.

How will they polymerize and attach to the cytoskeleton?
How will they know when they are at the back of the cell to detach?

How will polymerization be properly regulated to ensure that an adequate stock of monomers is present in the cell?
Many systems regulate this in terms of actin, which just like usual /sci/ posts is a drastic oversimplification of a system that you don’t even come close to understanding.

>>10759535
You are approaching this with biology.
I on the other hand would simply use physics and use larger cores with complex programming. Simplicity is the best solution. Understanding is best done through simple means. However, I understand if you wish to keep your position. It must be comfortable at the top. Frankly, I wonder if you look down here into the abyss out of morbid curiosity. Sometimes it will stare back.

>>10758812
ok, so how do you circulate stuff through the slime and exchange gases with the environment at a sufficient rate that your cells don't die? As far as I can tell slimes don't have lungs. Having to carry our gas exchange simply on the surface of the slime with any forced air flow probably won't be enough.
>>10759162
>>The cores can be whatever you want, so long as they provide sufficient energy.
ok great so what are they exactly? If you are generating electricity thermoelectrically you need to be able to dump heat to the environment in order to be able to generate power. This runs into similar problems that we have with gas exchange. If we just exchange heat on the surface of our slime, not only will we not be able to generate enough power, but it's likely that our slime could overheat.
>>jam a variable wave frequency generator or two in the paramagnetic fluid and viola
moving the current paramagnetic fluid we have around requires very strong magnetic fields, on the order of tesla to just move the fluid around a bit:
https://gmwgroup.harvard.edu/density-tool-chemistry-and-biology
creating significant forces will require much stronger magnets. I am skeptical that compact controllable magnets this powerful can be built with current technology.

>>10759547
And how would the movement occur?
How large would these ‘cores with complex programming’ be?
How would these not interfere with the liquid consistency?

>>10759587
The movement would be caused by electromagnets within the cores.
The cores for a 1 meter sized one with a "brain" would be roughly 0.1 to 0.2 meters (depending on the power source).
Liquid consistency is irrelevant when the "core" is in flux and resonating with others to make movement. It would be much like a snail keeping tread. Impurities would have to be filtered by either an active membrane or a programmed cycle to let go of dirt as it 'walked' though. The Japanese have hypothesized about making these for years.

>>10758999
I wasn't being clear my mistake when I was talking about limiting complexity what I meant was making it so the slime girl was the simplest/most efficient way possible without limiting her capabilities

Basically you can take many different more complex paths to get from A to B but you want the one that's the simplest most efficient but it still works for you without limiting you slime girl

>>10758852
>>"Just nanite everything"
The utility fog concept has been much more worked out than anything posted in this thread:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19940022864.pdf
They answer how they could move, how much power they would take to do so, how much control they would need, how strong the bulk material might be. They also point out some pretty big limitations that need to be over come, even if the foglets communicate with light and have nanocomputers and crap a 100 byte packet of information propagates through the fog at only 50 meters/second! This is horrendously slow! So the problem of figuring out how to transfer information fast enough just so we can display 2d images at rates similar to television is a pretty big issue, much less figuring out how to change shape. Oh and said utility foglets might have a core 40 microns in diameter and arms which can span up to 100 microns. That 0.1 MILLIMETERS! This is quite, quite larger than the nanoscale, so really using the definition 'nanite' doesn't make any sense.
>>make fairly efficient use of physical processes at that scale.
with nanotechnology we could do better and do so in a manner that is much more amenable to engineering. In addition, it's difficult to do fast computation, control, and communication with biology. As the case with utility fog demonstrates, fast communication may be pretty important. I will admit that we do not have the capability to make utility fog and are not sure whether we can practically make it.

>>10759680
at a certain point you need to have them link up to form "nerves" to propogate information faster

>>10759693
the fastest retinal cells we know have been found to have a bandwidth of on average 13 bits/second. Meaning it could take 1 minute to transmit a 100 byte packet from cell to cell.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9633-calculating-the-speed-of-sight/
While we don't know how the fuck we're going to form patterns in the first place, just the fact that nerves have less bandwidth is going to make things much more difficult.

>>10759598
You literally just created a giant cell with a nucleus you fucking autist.
>:O

>>10759738

>>10759742
>as long as it works
ENGINEER DETECTED
COMMENCING EJECTION PROTOCOL
GET THE FUCK OUT OF /SCI/

>>10759742
I love you, anon

>>10759598
Bullshit.
>> "core" is in flux and resonating with others to make movement. It would be much like a snail keeping tread.
I don't buy it. Not one bit. How the fuck do you get your magnets or your fluid to move like a snail tread? So you got two magnets in your slime, you want them to expand right? So you make them north to fucking north god knows how, well fucking great because they're floating in fluid they can flip in place rather than repelling each other. I think you also want to use the magnets to change the shape of paramagnetic fluid or something, but I'm not really sure. If this really is the case well the paramagnetic fluid sure as hell has a magnetic permeability greater than one. This makes things weird as hell. What we really have is a complicated as fuck magnetohydrodynamics problem. READ: we have to use basically the same fucking math used to analyze nuclear fusion. Right off the top of my head though, the higher relative permeability will tend to 'short circuit' the magnetic field between two magnets, which I think will make it difficult to generate any repulsive forces at all.

>>10753801
>I can measure the dimensions of my car in nanometers
Yeah and you can measure the size of a virus in kilometers if you so choose, that has nothing to do with what is being discussed.
Disingenuously pretending that you don't understand what nanomachines are in common parlance doesn't make you smart, it just makes you a faggot.

>>10759768
All I have to say is this, but in 3D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOCGQAXV9FY

>>10759785
So we need 4D magnets?

>>10759785
How in blue blazes does that even work?!

>>10759796
If you hadn't massacred all of us in a cheap inquisition and instead kept us alive and healthy you might have known by now.

>>10759782
the common parlance is wrong and creates confusion! Chemists give you shit if you talk about nanomachines because they'll say that brownian motion will blow your nanometer sized machines around like a hurricane. But since many so called 'nanomachines' are actually bigger than just nanometers this is a nonissue.
>>10759785
And what the fuck does in 3d mean? You make a cube with solenoids on all faces? Great you now have a cube that makes light bumps of ferrofluid move across it. It's going to be extremely difficult to many anything other than a small bump of ferrofluid because magnetic forces still decay at something close to the inverse square law.
>>10759796
a metric assload of solenoids arranged in a grid:
https://isea2015.org/proceeding/submissions/ISEA2015_submission_246.pdf

>>10759993
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUo1PgKksgw
>what does in 3d mean
You're a scientist, I bet you can figure it out.
:-DDDDDDDDDDDD
I'll give you hint. It has to be spherical.

>>10760001
Ok great, so now you have a bunch of short bumps sort of moving on a sphere. So you have a ball with bumps that can move like a snail and uses immense amounts of power. I fail to see the point. Also did you know that you can't uniformly distribute more than 20 points on a sphere? betcha didn't think of that huh?

>>10760013
>I fail to see the point
The point is V.001 can at least move forward a little.

>>10760013
The concept of flux can be applied in other copper constructs that are different to solenoids. Sphere is necessary for this to work smoothly for a prototype though. We can manipulate the weight of the ferrofluid to give and take at certain areas and move it forward. Clumsy locomotion is still movement. This will also allow the weight to be distributed uniformly, with power adjustment allowing it to coat it symmetrically.

Final hint:
More than two cores can be harmonized to act in unison.

>>10760036
What? So is like the middle a gyroscope or something?

>>10760036
>copper constructs that are different to solenoids
Such as?!
>>10760044
Okay that's one but anything else?!!?

>>10760036
>The concept of flux
seems to be something you do not understand.
>> copper constructs that are different to solenoids
and what might those be?
>> take at certain areas and move it forward
and because of magnetic force decreasing with distance by something like inverse square law scaling, we can't extend the areas very far. Unless of course we have fuck huge magnetic fields, but that's ridiculous. Even superconductors don't help much because you want to turn them on and off. Turning superconductors on and off can cause dissipation meaning you'd need impractical amounts of power. So basically it doesn't scale and is effectively a dead end.
>>10760036
>>More than two cores can be harmonized to act in unison
prove it. I still don't buy it.

>>10759573
>>10759680
You guys are fundamentally not comprehending what a slime is. There's literally no problem with them thinking at an extremely low pace. In fact, the slower their metabolism, the more likely they are to survive long enough to have offspring. The key to understanding this is that the closest any organism comes to the composition of a slime is fungi. But fungi do much of the same things a slime needs to be capable of, with (apparently) irrelevant intelligence tacked on. The added complexity changes its composition and likely makes the slime inedible to other forms of life (by default, anyway). They don't even necessarily need any form of eyesight to survive, because they're naturally (one of) the most toxic thing in their environment. Even assuming they occupy an ecosystem with other sapient races like humans, the most a human is likely to do is occasionally pick fruit from inside a slime's body, stealing its meal.

Similarly, there's no sense of what it means for a slime to "overheat;" they could as well turn into ice during the winter and hibernate for longer than extremophile bacteria do, and those can last for hundred of years. How they move about their environment to avoid/induce heating/liquefying is precisely the question. Depending on their inner metabolism, they might behave like (incredibly robust) cold blooded organism.

>>10759768
It actually becomes easier to make the entire blob sentient. That way regardless of any possible method of locomotion, it will be able to learn to move its body in any manner that turns out to be physically possible. Its concept of "flex" could well be analogous to positioning clumps of nanites in a specific area to "drag" the rest of its physiology along.
>>10760036
>harmonized
Exactly. Each slime can be expected to have a unique neural-like sense of motion, but that would be under slime psychology.

>>10760069
Could he not just make the core a gyroscope? I mean, it can be spun in any direction to make a flux within flux and at multiple frequencies. From a sphere this would be logical because the ferrofluid could be forced through channels that would be any shape needed.

>>10759738
>CELLS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrLUkj5EjJg

>>10760081
A giant gyroscope. Really? This is the best you could come up with? A powered and powerful copper gyroscope inside a ball. AHahahAHAHahHAh! This meme. It's not worth an entire thread. Ftfy. Your waifu is not only trash, she is impossible. LMAOOOOOooooooooo

>>10760087
I am going to make you gargle those words.

>>10758756
>body size to that of an egg
It will generally either remain dormant until a new source of nutrition is supplied or (more commonly) be consumed by another slime. While cannibalism does not appear to be expressly valued (or even understood) by slime society, it is often the case that idling slimes without an emotional bond will begin to metabolize the surface of another slime unconsciously. It may well be the case that outside of intentional procreation, slimes are not fully aware that conscious effort is required to avoid a "feeding frenzy" of sorts.

Contrary to popular belief, the surface of the slime is not one big mouth. Instead the outer membrane acts as a buffer preventing contamination (and ultimately collapse) of the homeostasis of the inner metabolism. Like their jellyfish cousins, the medusae is composed primarily of water, acting more as a membrane to separate metabolic modes than a discrete organ as found in mammal physiology. While this gives the slime a robust method of retaining water, they are not often seen to absorb any, and more often than not can be found expelling water that they have passively built up to restore a more viscous physiology suitable for advanced locomotion.

In the specific case of procreation, the two slimes will fuse their tissue, rather than producing discrete gamete pairs. A runaway process occurs whereby each organelle attempts to subsume all other tissue matter, and the seed with the most "potency" (resilience to absorption, complete ability to move/sense its inner metabolism) will convert the rest of the "clutch" into its own tissue.

Due to their unique metabolism, two slimes can rarely mate more than once while producing a distinguishable bloom. The slimes appear to be aware of this fact, and will often create a second egg as extra nutritional mass for a blooming slime that has difficulties operating its basic metabolism.

>>10760081
so slimes move at centimeters per month because their metabolism is so slow?
Like this shit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gromia_sphaerica
Sounds boring.
>> for a slime to "overheat;
anon was talking about using thermoelectric power in an artificial slime, presumably using a radioisotopic heat source. That could overheat.
>>It actually becomes easier to make the entire
blob sentient
And I was just asking anon how his slime made of fucking magnets can even move at all. It has nothing to do with sentience. We don't even understand what sentience is and now you want to make a shape changing blob sentient? How the fuck do you deal with the shape changing blob continuously making and breaking connections? You sure as fuck ain't gonna store information like neurons as we know them do, so how the hell will it learn?
>> positioning clumps of nanites in a specific area
and how do you position such things in the first place? How do you figure out where the specific area fucking is?
>>10760096
pseudoscience

>>10760096
STOP SAYING WHAT THEY ARE. THEY DON'T EVEN EXIST (((((((YET)))))).

YOU PROVIDED 0 (ZERO) VECTORS OF THEIR EXISTENCE. WHERE IS THE BIOLOGY?! WHERE IS THE MATH!? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>10760101
I thought a gyroscope like this could be scalable with an output of electrical current if it had the power supply, if that is the case, it could be pretty fast, all things considered.

>>10760087
>his waifu isn't essentially an extended brain that unconsciously cannibalized its brainlet siblings to become the genetically superior sample on bloom

Imagine being this SFW.

>>10760103
In the real world we can't supply infinite power, materials aren't infinitely strong, copper melts at a certain temperature, superconductors have a critical current and critical magnetic field beyond which they don't superconduct. And beyond a certain megnetic field strength small bits of metal in the environment turn into deadly projectiles.

>>10760102
>0 (ZERO) VECTORS
1. Every form of slime produced by any biology in the entire world.
>>10760101
That's what I'm working towards. I'm not sure how to model their memory capacity, but I'm (currently) modeling their sense of their metabolism and an effectively unconscious process that is ubiquitous throughout their medusa. Turning the entire thing into a neural-network-like structure makes it more likely for any part of it to exhibit sapient reaction in a more-than-slime-mold-like manner.

We can more or less expect that adding sapience to slime molds gives them similar advantages to the ones humans acquired, but we can't expect their society to look like ours. They have entirely different sensory faculties to locate food. Next I'll probably think about how vision might work for them, and get the neurochemistry section up.

>>10760108
Also: If we assume that one of these things can grow to miles long in size, then regardless of how fast you try to make it communicate, it's going to have waves of moods traversing across its body, if for no other reason than variances in nutrition. After some size (that would vary based on its actual inner structure/neurology) it's necessarily going to be more like a hive mind than anything else.

Even something as simple as biolumiscent moods would drastically alter possible introspection methods for the entire species. If we can't assume that they are able to differentiate each other and analyze behavior differences among the group, then we can't expect them to be sapient enough to have any reason to search for food that doesn't involve devolving back into slime molds or jellyfish or whatever else. The success of an organism is not uniquely tied to its intelligence unless that intelligence benefits it on a physiological level.

Until any of you poses a solution to the scaling problems inherent to nanotechnology, I'm going to use classical biological methods for locomotion, of which there are millions across the environment. I have no problem adapting their cellular biology to biointegrate a nanite if you can make the whole self-replication aspect work.


That's right: My slimegirls can exist without your gelatinous chemical augments. Good luck stopping them from becoming hyperintelligent the more you try to force nanotech into the discussion from here on.

>>10760131
wow you really are a schizo

>>10760108
>>neural network type structure
and how the hell do you build a neural network in something that changes shape? Neural networks as we know them will not work here. Neurons store information in connections. When your blob deforms it will break these connections ERASING that information.
>>sapience
is not even worth discussing at all because of this and because we don't understand how it works.

>>10760720
>we don't understand how it works
No, you simply lack conviction. Even OP is merely spinning their wheels hoping that if they repeat "nanite" enough times then someone will actually design one. Relying on a miracle when the base concept of slimes (slime mols) is already viable enough of an organism to function without intelligence. If the base metabolic scaffolding already exists in our world, then it's just an engineering challenge to figure out how to make it have actual recursive sentience.

Gentlemen. What we have here is an opportunity to learn.


Your basic problem, anon, is that you don't grasp the relevance of emergence. We don't know how the brain works, but we know that it does. This tells us something about its structure. Namely: It doesn't need any.

In a classical network, yes; forming lasting connections is essential. But we're not dealing with a neural network. Those require complex tissue and differentiating gradients. As we already know, slimes don't need either of these things. So the neural-network-like structures that emerge inside the main body necessarily would not be composed of neurons simply for the fact that there is no reason to have them. I don't think other anons are really grasping this concept; slimes do not NEED the extra physiology. As a class of organism, they already exist, and are already successful enough to function *WITHOUT INTELLIGENCE*. On a basic metabolic level, this is and always was possible.

Do not make the mistake of believing that, when presented with a chance to create an entirely new type of organism, that I will ever hesitate in any way. The moment I can fathom the evolution of a thing, it is a near-certainty that it will some day come into existence in full.

In a slime, the goo IS the conduit. This thing is a gelatinous moving brain. Literally, without a method of controlling the goo even at its very extents, your slime will be in a constant state of melting. Not "variable viscosity" but "losing mass."

>>10761056
The purpose of the outer membrane, then, is less about preventing the loss of mass as it is about preventing intrusive thoughts into the main body from the environment. It should function necessarily more as a sensory organization and integration layer than any form of metabolic mode separator.

Probably the most difficult thing for you to wrap your head around is that a slime doesn't need a whole lot of intelligence to function. The only value intelligence has over the already highly successful slime mold organism is increased mass. A larger body that can walk across an environment rather than crawl is precisely the advantage. To do that, it doesn't need to be highly sentient. Only the most rudimentary of information processing systems needs to be involved. This is an organism that thinks purely out of leisure while its body autonomously seeks out new food sources.

In other words: It doesn't matter if a slime is literally incapable of having complex thoughts. It can AFFORD, on a basic metabolic level, to be discarding its higher faculties every third step. Because its physiology is so robust that it doesn't NEED higher order cognition to function. Really try to grasp what that means.

In a complex mammal, this isn't possible. We can't survive in a paralyzed state. We require constant neural activity to breath, pump our blood, regulate body temperate, maybe even react to the presence of a pathogen. Everything we are is made possible by various parts of our brain constantly processing information in a highly ordered and organized manner. Our concept of personality, that is, the set of all possible personalities that can exist in a human while retaining the qualities that make that body successful is very very small. All the limits that force us into higher consciousness, into some discrete model of personality, are undone in an organism that doesn't even need a brain to function and survive.

In theory, yes, I agree; slimes should be able to think, react,

>>10761056
>>we don't understand how it works
>No, you simply lack conviction.
This is how religion is created

>>10761066
speak, and even play on a level we recognize as sapient and productive. But in practice, slimes are already here, they are already successful, and no part of the very real and actual organism that is a slime mold needs any form of sapience to speak of.

So when I say "neural network LIKE structure," I mean, "that which is not in any way a neural network," but obviously has an analogous property that we *CURRENTLY* associate with higher cognition, sapience, personality, and all that emergent shit that we don't, categorically, understand yet.

Let me just drop a bombshell on this entire thread for a second.

A slime doesn't NEED to be self-aware.


Factor that into personality.

>>10761068
I am sort of arguing myself into thinking this is a superior form of life, yes. Unironically so.

>>10761073
your delusions aren't science

>>10758762
>>10761075
Right, well, I'll be sure to tell my slimegirls that they "aren't real science" while you're still QQing over a petri dish trying to get 3cm^2 of liquid to stop drying out every night.

>his nanites can't even survive in a fluid suspension

>>10760108
>Any biology in the world.
Any creature you mean...

>>10761083
You. Actually managed to create nanites...that function cohesively...
Can I see them?

>>10761056
>>emergence
useless filler word:
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/8QzZKw9WHRxjR4948/the-futility-of-emergence
>>it doesn't need any
your argument does not follow. 'The brain works so therefore it doesn't need any structure,' does not make any sense as an argument.
>> do not need the extra physiology
you mentioned before that you want them to learn, so how the FUCK are they going to learn? Learning implies storing some information. How th FUCK do cells communicate with each other? How the fuck do you get information from the front to the left or right side in a blob? Perhaps you should beat your brain into a pulp and report back on how to accomplish this, the experience might be enlightening.
>>create an entirely new type of organism
Good fucking luck with that. We can't genetically engineer worth a damn. Making an entirely new organism is far beyond the biotechnology we have today.

let's keep this trainwreck going!

>>10761903
w-wat

>>10762131
>lesswrong
Exactly the idiots I meant to trigger by using the word. Didn't read the rest of your post because it can only be irrelevant drivel that doesn't solve the central problem of the thread.

Kinda late to the party but slimemolds are cute, CUTE!
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDdDN_EWpVM

>>10763125
here's some real footage:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkVhLJLG7ug

>>10762583
>>that doesn't solve the central problem of the thread
you've not solved anything
>>10763137
slow and boring.

>>10760131
>>10761056
>>10761066
>>10763137
90 percent of this is bullshit. But I commend you on the small amounts of biology I could actually extract from this. Now drop me some math so I can forgive you for making me read it. Lmao

>>10763288
>>10761073
Also, you can bypass all of this by synchronizing all cells to carry the brain in fractions and only solidifying as thought once reformed into a single desired shape. A group of cells within the mass that form a nervous system.

>>10760079
You really don't understand, if it is slow, then it cannot be intelligent as us in the given timeframe. We need a monster girl that can move, today. Not tomorrow.

>>10761056
ALSO, THE BRAIN ABSOLUTELY HAS A STRUCTURE. THE ONLY OPPORTUNITY A SENTIENT GOO CREATURE COULD OFFER IS A CONSTANTLY SHIFTING SENTIENCE THAT SOLIDIFIES FROM TIME TO TIME.

>>10763166
>ignores the actual science
>fails to see the solution

Classic rationalist.

>>10763293
great now show some math.
>>cells to carry the brain in fractions
and by what mechanism are the cells able to carry the brain in fractions?
>>reformed into a single desired shape
how do the cells figure out how to move into that desired shape?

>>10764215
Find all Homeomorphically Irreducible Trees of degree ten (i.e ten nodes). It's literally The Good Will Hunting problem but with nervous tissue. The 'brain' must be within a morphous tissue that can approximate the goo in shape.

>how do cells figure out how to move into that desired shape

Good luck finding that out. Although, the core idea shows some massive potential for this. If we made individual neurons that branched out and placed the brains complexity in different nodes. This would either require a mass overhaul in biology, making a new creature from scratch, or just follow through with the physics ball and make an android like >>10759598 said.

>>10764377
>>Find all Homeomorphically Irreducible Trees of degree ten
I don't even know if there's an animal with 10 nerve cells. Besides, you probably need neural networks that aren't trees for complicated behavior. How else are you supposed to implement a feedback loop?
>> the core idea shows some massive potential for this
and that core idea is what?

>>10763293
>>10763308
Exactly. This is an organism that when it gets "distracted" (by food or whatever else) might not be able to recover its thought process until months later when (while exercising) it spontaneously reverts to a prior neurostructure.
>>10763301
Exactly. The hibernation potential puts us and this worlds apart unless we can figure out how to *make* it sapient from our reference frame.

At the very least, it'll need photosensitivity of some kind to perform advanced foraging, but I don't know where to place such a mechanism or how to get it to assemble itself in response to the slime's thought process. Short of photo-moods traversing the medusa body, I don't have a clear picture of how that level of sensing would work.
>>10764215
>move into that desired shape?
That's where the difficulty starts and why I posed the notion that the overall shape of the slime is an effective habit-equivalent mechanism represented by their DNA.

No matter what mechanism we attribute to its intelligence, the slimes that—by chance or genes or whatever other circumstance—end up cracking advanced cognition will necessarily overshadow the slower slimes in slime society. Part of the culture that emerges will necessarily involve teaching other slimes how to rearrange themselves into smarter configuration. Given that the entire thing is a brain, when a slime tries to "focus" on a particular topic there's no reason it can't rearrange its entire physiology to better model the problem. We could watch as rainbows of metabolic energy traverse the organism and flow into a central region where the rate of its thoughts accelerates to beyond our capacity to empathize with as rigid-brains.

>>10764594
>for complicated behavior
Remember that we want complicated behavior; the slime itself only benefits from intelligence if it complements their natural physiology. It has no more need for complexity than does its non-sapient counterpart.
>implement a feedback loop
That's entirely optional.