/sci/ - Science & Math

7 days to lightsail deployment

Seems to me if the ASDS’s had 4x the surface area it would make for way easier landings. From a feedback control perspective

Raptor at Cocoa

>>10755319
It’s the fitment test one, SN 4 I think

IT BEGINS
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/licenses_permits/media/Final%20Experimental%20Permit%20and%20Orders%20EP%2019-012%20Starship%20Hopper%20(06-21-2019).pdf

a presentation of true facts:
it is [math]\sqrt{2}[/math] miles from the hopper launchpad to the keep-out checkpoint
this means absolutely nothing useful

>>10755436
UNLIMITED FLIGHTS

>>10755301
>7 motherfucking days until lightsail deployment.

are you ready for HEY GUYS FALCON HEAVY LAUNCH HAPPENING RIGHT NOW HERE ON YOUTUBE! It's going to happen.

>>10755307
Unfortunately they'd have to pay for that since nothing exists that's that large, and the gains would be minimal anyway since hitting a football field sized platform from space is about as hard as hitting a platform twice as wide and long.

>>10755482
Plus, I doubt any FH launches will be as hard as this one was. They needed a lot of extra S2 performance for the multiple burns

>>10755472
I'm ready to continue to click on those videos, thumbs down, and click away instantly, as I've always done.

>>10755483
I wouldn’t say that when there’s at least one planned launch (AFSC-44) which will require the expenditure of the center core.

https://twitter.com/NOAASatellites/status/1143520496660746240

I'm sad, all the cute talk about how Hayabusa was a good girl for completing their mission got deleted.

Spaceflight related, we're just a few days out from another Electron launch right?

>>10755533
Deleted off what? What are you talking about?

>>10755657
janny drama, ignore it
go check out the archive for the Falcon Heavy launch thread

>>10755533
The weird thing is there was a bunch of genuine garbage posts left up while the hayabusa stuff was taken down. Shit, I made a 'suicide burn' joke that was deleted for literally no reason, I can't fathom what that mod was thinking.

>>10755705
if it was only posts that were deleted, it was probably a janitor

>>10755710
Well that janitor should have his pay reduced.
A bunch of offtopic "go back!" Shitposting was left up while anons getting interested in hayabusa through fan art was removed.

>>10755717
>have his pay reduced
he does it for free

>>10755718
That's the joke.
But seriously yeah fuck that retard.
It was a good thread up until then too, at least it was an enjoyable time watching the launch/deployment with anons.

>>10755297
no.

>>10755533
Here's our little girl!

>>10755533
yeah, electron soon
are they launching from Wallops or New Zealand?

>An audit document from the U.S. Office of the Inspector General was published by NASA this week. It reveals that an unauthorized Raspberry Pi computer connected to the JPL servers was targeted by hackers, who then moved laterally further into the NASA network. How much further? Well, the hackers apparently got as far as the Deep Space Network (DSN) array of radio telescopes and numerous other JPL systems.

>>10755871
This is the organization that will take us to Mars? Wrong. Pic related is the only shot.

>>10755871
Well, JPL is notably transparent, even more than NASA, and mostly does science. (not a target for industrial espionage) So it's not surprising they generally assume good faith and have lax security practices.

Elon is confusing me

>>10755920
Probably needs to lay off the Ambien.

>>10755920
redpilled

>>10755920
>>10755972
Yeah, probably just a typical late night drug/alcohol binge.

>>10755979
Chomsky does not like Musk or private space companies btw

>>10755995
Chomsky can get fucked then.

>spacex wants to schedule an onsite interview
I-I'm making it bros

>>10755920
Elon both wants to be the hero of the working man and a benevolent overlord, which never works out

>>10755995
I've yet to hear an opinion on Musk from Chomsky. I know only about his critique of neuralink - that we know to little about thoughts for it to work. But he did not take into account AI so opinion discarded. However when it comes to politics, Musk looks like a rich child compared to woke old Chomsky. Still I'm open for debate. They should go smoke pot together on some radio show and discuss stuff.

>>10755920
Chomsky does suck desu
he's a traitor

>>10756012
Can you back that up?

>>10756014
I dont want to get into it but here's a quck rundown. his rhetoric is entirely anti-US and anti-free western world and he doesnt believe they should act on their own interests, despite all the good they've done for the world. if the US had listened to chomsky, the world would have been chinese and soviet slaves 20 years ago.

i dont know if he's willfully naive or actively malicious but in the end it doesnt matter. by attacking the free world in the way he does, he's helping the enemy

>>10756027
he's kinda right about US propaganda. everything else he says is just I am right because my lefty feelings.

>>10756027
>anti-free western
>by attacking the free world
You're more liberal with your usage of the word "free" than any market was ever.
It is a valid criticism though, that if you are not hawkish yourself, you might become a prey. But then - if you do so, you are no longer one of the "good guys", are you?

>>10756127
quite the paradox, isn't it?

>>10756146
Good can not fight evil as it can not wield a sword.

Center core recovery is over-rated. They didn't really want to recover the damn thing anyway.

You know, if you graph announced SLS launch dates versus age of announcement, the slope indicates that we're less-than-a-year from initial launch.
If you do that for just the last 1000 days, it's only a little more than a year-and-a-half.
So, statistically, they're likely to make it by 2020-2021. They're not having a JWST situation, where the same method will give you an estimate of 2026.

>>10756256
JWST is like fusion reactor, it's always few years away

>>10755995
they both can get fucked
muskrat is a gov stooge, working for big bad
also anyone who worships another man is by definition a faggot
losers

>>10755995
At the risk of derailing the thread, why doesn't he like private space companies?

Chomsky is a two faced fucking rat, going against imperialist wars his whole life and then suddenly banging the war drums against Syria for Israel because he needs to back his tribe, what a fucking cunt.

>>10756413
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z4m9ej/chomsky-krauss-space-science-qa
It's basically bloobloobloo ebul corporations

>>10756454
I've rarely heard about Chomsky, but he sounds like an ass in this article. He compares private companies to dictatorships ruining everything to everyone while pretending as if a private company has a monopoly on space, yet he treats the idea of the United States wanting a monopoly in space as if it were no big deal.

I also respectfully disagree with his opinion that manned spaceflight shouldn't be focused on, instead robots should be the at the forefront. While robots are cheap, they also encourage a slow rate of exploration. Robots can't fix themselves, so they need to be made to be as reliable as possible which takes a while. Robots are slow to perform experiments so it takes weeks or even years for a robot to perform something that a human can do in a day or two. Robots are also long lived which encourages a long period of time between missions.

This adds up to a very slow space program. A slow space program can't get the launch frequency necessary to keep operating costs down, which somewhat counters the usage of "cheaper" robots. On top of that, a slow space program doesn't inspire the public. A robot every five years doesn't get the same amount of enticement as the very idea of sending men back to the moon. This is damning for a public agency as it relies on the support of politicians elected by the public to get funding.

InSight recently had troubles with one of it's main scientific instruments, the mole. While I can't find the exact cost of the mole, it can't be cheap. All of that money spent on it is pretty much wasted by the InSight mission because of a problem that could've been easily fixed if someone where there to address the problem. You don't have to dig far into history to find other examples where a simple fault severely hampered a robotic mission, meanwhile human missions can have catastrophic anomalies and yet be able to make it home because the crew could fix the problem.

>>10756244
>One ime I was walking down the street and Center Core said "High Five buddy!",then Center Core pulled his hand away. CC did say "Just kidding with you bruh,your cool!"
But I know he wasn't kidding.
Center Core a jerk!
I'm Glad CC is dead!

>>10756778
Center core took my lunch money, fuck that guy h had it coming.

>>10756782
One time Center Core sneaked a fart in my butt just before I talked to a pretty satellite.

>>10756778
I overheard the Center core saying that it believes that the moon landings were faked. Had it coming desu.

>>10756792
Center Core just jelly.
They only thing CC explored was downing.

>>10756791
Center Core once yelled a racial epitaph at me while flying by. I'm not even a minority. Hope he gets shit on by a dolphin.

>>10756807
Typical Center Core.
I always knew he was a racist,turns out CC is also a jerk.

>>10756820
CC once slapped my girls ass in the bar and dared me to do something's about it, but he was like 230ft tall and his fins looked intimidating. I'm glad he crashed into the sea.

>>10755307
Most booster landing failures have had nothing to do with missing the ship. It doesn't matter how big the landing pad is if the booster couldn't zero out lateral velocity, or the landing burn was too little/too much, or igniter fluid ran out, or any other host of problems.

Almost every time the boosters have failed to land, they would have failed even if the ship were miles across. Aim is not the problem.

>>10756256
Man, I remember doing that for FH.

>>10756868
How'd it turn out, Anon? Was it fairly accurate?

>>10756862
And this particular center core had its engine TVC destroyed by reentry. I'm still in awe how close it got to ASDS even with that much damage.>>10756862

Has anyone else realized the Dark Forest theory is fundamentally flawed? Sure, it may be one aspect. But it has some serious gaps that it cannot fill on its own.

>>10755920
Chomsky is genuinely retarded in the modern era. He was solid in the middle of the 20th century. He's trash in the 21st.

>>10756008
The big issue is that they're not obviously incompatible things. Not that he would ever realize why he can't be "hero of the working man".

>>10756932
It's pretty much impossible to know, really, until we get to that point. I feel it's unlikely, since if you go for that approach, you need to be really, really damn sure you kill everything or you have a chance of scattered, angry survivors who may know where you're coming from.

>>10757019
>Launches multiple rkvs at you from a bumfuck nothing system 500ly from their home system

Nothing personnel, prey species

>>10757019
Reminds me of that old HFY copypasta.
"We know where you are"

>>10756951
He’s a member of the capitalist class. He can’t help it. A “champion of the working class” would be a more Maoist figure, who killed all the landlords and gave their land to the peasants.

10757045

>>10757045
>Maoist figure, who killed all the landlords and gave their land to the peasants
>Be Maoist figure
>Kill handful of landowners
>Proceed to holocaust 50 million peasants

A true champion of the working class

>>10757051
Fuck insects, birds, and people, in that order.

>>10757051
Never said he’d be just like Mao, but he’d be more similar.

>Proceed to holocaust 50 million peasants

Accidental.

>>10757054
Woops lol accidentally killed fifty million people

*sucks through teeth

HEY THIS NIGGA ABOUTA GET DABBED ON

>>10757041

>>10757072
Yep, that's the one.

>>10757063
That’s China for you. They had wars that killed tens of millions centuries ago.

>>10757072
I fucking love these short human supremacy stories

>>10757094
Me too, I wish they hadn't fallen out of style.

>>10756012
found the retard

>>10757116
Too many Quality Drops, for every good one you had like 3 shit ones.

>>10757123
Yeah, to be sure.
One of my favorites was one involving a random human abducted and brought to some alian space station or something, which wound up getting invaded by some aggressive insectoid species. The rando human tore through the attackers at great harm to himself but lived, and the alien narrator shakily marveled at humanity's ability to be both cognizant and savage in the face of danger, his own species being the ET equivalent of vegan pansies.

>>10757134
Jenkinsverse, It started out good but it dropped into a shitpile.

>>10757149
That was a series? I only read the one, on /x/ years back, never knew there were followups.

little bit of trivia I just found

Saturn V could do a 26,000kg Mars flyby
Saturn C could do a 40,000kg Mars flyby

>>10757155
I remember a CGI video project by TFH (thefakinghoaxer) showing a potential Mars flyby using Apollo tech. Looking it up now, most of what I see are rando yt accounts claiming it to be REAL EVIDENCE OF SECRET MARS MISSION LIKESHARESUBSCRIBE

>>10757134
Anyone that isn’t vegan is evil and should die

>>10757178
Take it to /ck/ you anemic wuss.

>>10755871
>>10756256
unbelievable incompetence

show me the JWST graph

>>10755790
I don't think the wallops launch complex is finished yet.

>>10757178
Get some vitamins you moron

>>10756349
It passed a thermal vacuum test recently. Congress is also threatening to cut off funding because they're tired of the contractors' shit.

>>10755436
>limited to 25m high
Oh well, we have to start somewhere

>>10757155
>Saturn V
>Saturn C
Saturn V is literally Saturn C-5. By C you probably mean the C-8.
>doing a Mars flyby in 1 launch
is absolutely retarded. Single launch missions are a dead end. Soviets got it, which is why they didn't even look at the moon initially as it was useless, looking to learn how to construct things in space from the start.

here’s your shipping container, bro

triangles are shapes with the least number of sides that can still inscribe something, you know

>>10757953
>three large cab trucks
>and a ‘vette

America

>>10756454
chomsky spewing bullshit about spaceflight... makes me wonder what other of his ideas are unexamined nonsense

>>10757966
ahem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

>>10757957

Schedule as of this week after the FH launch:

CRS-18 - July 21
Amos-17 - August 2

Also, in September, but worth adding:
Starlink v1.0 Launch 1 - September 30.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/06/europe-says-spacex-dominating-launch-vows-to-develop-falcon-9-like-rocket/

>>10758014
https://www.retalt.eu/

>>10758014
>no common bulkheads

>>10758034
it is using Vulcain 2 engines, which are hydrolox, so maybe that is why as oxidizer-fuel temperature difference is too high?

>>10758039
>hydrolox falcon 9 copy
interesting
I hate hydrolox first stages but we'll see how it goes

Raptor summary as of today from NSF autist

>>10758014
>copying VTVL
top motherfucking kek
spacex isn't dominating commercial launches because VTVL is their secret sauce, but because they targeted the launch cost from the start. VTVL is just a particular way to reuse the stages that fit the available supply chain, geography and spacex capabilities, nothing more nothing less. There are many ways to do it: gliding flyback, air-breathing or hybrid thrusters, helicopter/plane mid-air retrieval, parachutes, whatever. Don't tell me that parachutes are too heavy and uneconomical because spacex tried it once. I'll remind you that nobody wanted to do VTVL before spacex because of this very reason, it was "too heavy" and uneconomical. And there's also Beal-style big dumb boosters which don't care about reusability at all.

except SSTO, it's a stillborn idea that's doesn't bring any benefits (and most VTVL SSTOs are a blind copy of a DC-X/A)

If you want to beat spacex, it should be a custom solution designed from the first principles
yeah, the success rate would be 1/999, but that's the nature of the business
copying VTVL because "spacex is dominating" is just a retarded cargo cult not unlike Apple competitor wannabes are participating in

>>10757077
>>10757072
I love these things!

>>10758084
>Don't tell me that parachutes are too heavy and uneconomical because spacex tried it once.

And abandoned the idea, for a reason.

>"spacex is dominating" is just a retarded cargo cult not unlike Apple competitor wannabes are participating in

Well, all modern smartphones are essentially an upgraded copy of the iPhone, so..

>>10758089
My personal favourite

>>10758084
>Don't tell me that parachutes are too heavy and uneconomical because spacex tried it once.

Okay. I'll tell you that they're too heavy and uneconomical because SpaceX tried it several times.

>>10758101
>>10758115
>And abandoned the idea, for a reason.
Yeah and VTVL was also out of the question for the same reason, and spaceplanes are "shit" because an overengineered contraption like Shuttle wasn't economical in its particular sort of reusability.

Thing is, spaceflight tech is full of good ideas from 60s that either no one bothered to try, or someone tried it and decided it wasn't worth it, and others followed.

>>10758122
>Yeah and VTVL was also out of the question for the same reason, and spaceplanes are "shit" because an overengineered contraption like Shuttle wasn't economical in its particular sort of reusability.

This argument doesn't follow. The flaw with parachutes is the intensity of the reentry environment and the subsequent strength and weight required to survive the atmosphere. Heavier vehicles mean you need bigger chutes.

>>10758140
>The flaw with parachutes is the intensity of the reentry environment and the subsequent strength and weight required to survive the atmosphere.
Please tell that to Energia/Lavochkin, who returned an upper stage from orbit as an experiment in early 2000s. (IRDT/Demonstrator, it was never fully successful, but one stage survived the reentry and was lost on landing due to the 2nd stage chute not triggering)

Just a glimpse on what's possible: parachute is a very broad term and the basic subsonic round chute designed to decelerate or bring the load to the safe vertical velocity isn't the only one. The load also doesn't need to touch the ground while on a parachute. (surprise!) Many parachute types can survive even the orbital reentry while deployed, moreover it's a valid way to do a low heat flux reentry, another great idea which is almost untried till this day. etc etc etc

>and the subsequent strength and weight required to survive the atmosphere
You can't say that without numbers. Actually you can't say that even with armchair numbers. The amount of solid engineering solutions abandoned due to poor trying is unbelievable.

Your thinking is EXACTLY why most companies failed to innovate. VTVL wasn't tried for exactly this reason, the only vehicle that tried it previously was DC-X prototype, but it was a retarded SSTO idea that stuck in the heads of engineers and business people until spacex picked it right. The right parachute might be worth it. Or not. You can't tell for sure just by looking at one company trying the most basic way of parachuting the stage.

>>10758193
Source on the Demonstrator parachuting from orbit: http://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/tm/2003/1/shagni.html
that's 1999-2003
they cut the program later due to various reasons, lack of money being the biggest one

>>10758193
Another untried idea for an orbital parachute and the low temp reentry
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/009457659500108C
Basically a 20km tether behind the reentry vehicle

>>10758193
>Just because parachutes have never worked and the only company that ever managed to make a reusable booster that doesn't have to be fished out of the sea and rebuilt abandoned parachutes doesn't mean they can't work amazingly well

Perhaps not, but the weight of experience is against parachute advocates, and it earnestly is not for a lack of trying. The idea just doesn't seem to have much promise for anything with serious orbital payload capabilities.

>>10758224
fuck yes

>>10758251
Well the upper stage retrieval idea only made sense due to Russians historically using really compact robotic space tugs as upper stages, which take a significant part of their launch costs. Think Centaur but much more compact. They were on a brink of survival these times, which made an oldspace company seek for every way to cut the cost and innovate.

Which is entirely my point - blindly copying a particular implementation is a good way to never lead anything again. Parachutes are just an example. Choose the way that works best for your particular conditions.

>>10758193
>upper stage recovery
I've played with the idea of using a ROMBUS style upper stage to recover it. The idea is to make the upper stage capsule-like with a truncated aerospike engine. The upper stage reenters engine first, using a little bit of fuel to cool it during reentry. Afterwards it could either propulsively land or use chutes.

from yesterday launch

>>10758774
it makes me sad that the yellow-white of kerosene exhaust is a visual indicator of combustion inefficiencies and that neither hydrolox nor methalox have it

so very sad

>>10758779
>it makes me sad that the yellow-white of kerosene exhaust is a visual indicator of combustion inefficiencies and that neither hydrolox nor methalox have it

Its actually more of an indicator of the size of the particulates inside of the exhaust stream. Methalox and hydrolox burn in similarly inefficient ratios as kerosene and liquid oxygen.

REEEE
HOP
FUCKING
WHEN

>>10758787
larger particles move slower out of the engine bell, and have more of their energy trapped in vibrations of the molecule
it's one of the primary reasons that methane has the best ISP of the hydrocarbons (the other is that it has the most hydrogen)

>>10758790
SN-6 arrives at McGregor on Friday

>>10758793
The tradeoff of specific impulse is mostly made up for with the greater mass thrown out of the engine bell. The increased propellant density and mars-viable production process are the only things that really make methane out-compete kerosene.

>>10758803
if what you want is prop density I suggest subcooled propane!
at the temperature of liquid oxygen, propane is still a liquid, and denser than kerosene!

>>10758800
considering the timing, it'll probably hop on the 4th of july
either it's an achievement of engineering, or the world's biggest firework

Electron launch later today

>>10758779
At least hydrogen is great at making fires.

>>10758859
isn't that photoshop
the Delta IV fireball isn't like that, even when it sets the foam on fire

>>10758860
no it's like that irl

>>10758813
I suggest pentaborane(9) with dioxygen difluoride, just for lulz

>>10758860
No, that's real. I remember a relatively recent launch when the entire oxidizer line was on fire during the ascent, that was genuinely fucking scary

Daily reminder to all the burgers who think they're hot shit; China is projecting to have more launches this year than in Americas history
How can NASA and cuck-X even compete?

>>10758868
Imagine the emerald plume

>>10758903
The US will compete by having a smaller number of much larger rockets, each of which can spew out larger loads of satellites. (And goddamn was that sentence phallic) Space X will likely have more satellites in orbit for its Starlink project than China has total in less than a year.

>>10758903
daily reminder that most Chinese launches are with tiny rockets, in the ~5 ton to LEO max capability range

SpaceX is the undisputed king of launches

>>10758924
>biggest project is vaporware
>meanwhile China's lunar palace is being finalized as we speak
Seethe and cope

>>10758918
>Imagine the emerald fireball the size of a launch site

>>10758930
I'm done talking to you, you tipped your hand too far
you're just a troll, spewing nonsense disconnected from reality
>>10758931
devil's green

Another panel section was stacked onto the cylinder this afternoon.

>>10758933
>no rebuttals
>still cant dispute the fact that China is claiming the moon as we speak
SLS and a moonbase isnt happening, no matter what shitty tin can rocket scam-x puts up

>>10758945
SLS not happening is a good thing. NASA needs to just shut down and burgers just get out of space.

>>10758952
America owns space, stay bitchmode loser.

>>10758800
>SN-6
huh?

>>10758877
>>10758860
The best ones are when they cut the engines just before the ignition, when the rocket is already on fire but the launch is aborted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUeYH4QqAgs
I wonder how they're dealing with situations like that, do they have automated fire suppression of some kind?

>>10758976
the 6th raptor in serial production

>>10757178

>>10758972
Name 1 (one) noteworthy accomplishment America has made in space that wasnt already done by Russia or Europe. You cant.

>>10759048
shouldn't it be name one (1)?

>>10758084
>most VTVL SSTOs are a blind copy of a DC-X/A
Only VVTL rocket that "blind copies" DC-X is Blue Origin. Blue Origin literally re-hired the old engineers for DC-X what other company is copying them? SpaceX invented their own hoverslam, that's unique to them.

>>10759048
If only I could think of one!

Q: How many people BFR new can carry to mars per one flight?

A: About 100, assuming people want cabins. Pressurized volume is similar to A380. Could take a lot more on shorter trips.


https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1144002182334812160

>>10759074
>6-9 months travel time
yeah people are going to want cabins
though it's not like travel times like that are special, that was the time it took to go from europe to north america back in the days of sail

Q: And how many passengers can you carry with Earth to Earth transportation?

A: ~1000, as all seats would be “coach” & no toilets, pilot area or food galley needed. Most flights would only be 15 to 20 mins. It’s basically an ICBM traveling at Mach 25 that lands.

>>10759082
I imagine a shitter would be statistically present for every one of these flights in earth.

>it only takes 20 minutes
>but I'll hold my shit since 2 days ago and complain about not having a designated shitting space in this 20 minute ride

I'd imagine you'd have to get a spaceman 'license' before you're allowed on general E2E flights; sort of a guarantee that you won't vomit everywhere or have other negative effects from the ride. Maybe they'd offer special shakedown rides where you can get your permit or whatever

>>10755717
was it fan art as in rendering of the probe, or was it fan art as in "anime girl named hayabusa getting probed"?

>>10759108
Neither, just vanilla humanizations of the probe at various states of the mission, accompanying anons discussing how impressive the flight was despite all the challenges/failures and pressing F to pay respects.

>>10759074
OK, so we have 100 people on Mars doing what exactly?

>>10759124
Dying, presumably.

>>10759124
whatever you want to do

>>10759048
>first asteroid flyby
>first asteroid orbit/landing
>only spacecraft to explore Uranus/Neptune
>only humans on the moon so far
>15% failure rate compared to 63% for the USSR/Russia
>first Jupiter orbiter
>first Saturn orbiter
>first Mercury orbiter
>first (successful) planetary flyby
>first Mars orbiter

>>10759095
the man's bowels would explode during launch and reentry, I'd imagine they'd have to tell people to shit before getting onboard

>>10759108
anime girl named hayabusa giving earth her precious thing and burning up in reentry

>>10759095
if you can hold it though the takeoff, you can hold it for the landing

How can anons fall to such obvious bait?

>>10759124
Building the propellant plant and managing the tunnel bore digging them their new homes

They'll probably live in the rocket until they're ready

>>10759124
shitposting on 4chan ideally

>>10759155
>shitposting on 4chan with a ten minute delay

>>10759150
>can't hold it through takeoff
>explosive bowel movement happens
>first spacex starship is literallly Starshit
>once landed Starshit gets quarantined and everyone must be taken to hospital

>>10759159
wont make much difference on a slow board

aren't we all forgetting the best way to make orbit here

>>10759152
Gotta blow the dust off this one before I post.

>>10759159
its slow but honest work. interplanetary shitposts will get the most (yous).

>>10759171
What will the martian board/chan be called?

>>10759178
/mars/
I mean, what else would you call it?

>>10759178
you can't call it 4chan for fourth from the sun
xchan? is that a thing yet, for spacex

>>10759203
/MCR/

>>10759218
Im good as long as we get flags and can filter out the /OPA/ scum

>>10759178
marchan.org

>>10759203
redchanit

STOP feeding trolls
STOP political ranting

Lets get back to REAL discussion about space general like hop updates and why women wear bras in space with no gravity.

>>10759255
the real reason women wear bras is for chafe resistance

>>10759071
Irrelevant. No real science accomplishment.

>>10759274

>>10759255
Then start reporting the shit-stirring retard for trolling outside /b/.

>>10758837
Everyday Astronaut will livestream it

>>10759104
Oi, you got a loicence for that economy seat?

>>107592
Its true. The moon landings accomplished nothing the Russians dudnt with the Luna probes and all the ALSEP packages are dead

>>10759291
>>10759291
>The moon landings accomplished nothing the Russians dudnt
Except put men on a celestial object.
Now stop shitposting you utter retard, or at least spellcheck your trash before posting.

>>10759299
The douche probably believes that manned spaceflight is pointless and that there should be only a focus on robotic probes, while ignoring that the rate of scientific research is painfully slow with probes and encourages an underdeveloped space program.

>>10759304
I'm sure he doesn't believe that at all, and is instead just a bored asshole looking to stir the pot and get (you)s.

>>10755297
based

>>10759304
There isnt a point when its NASA doing it. NASA is nothing more than a vanity project. There isnt one thing they've done without someone else doing it first and them doing catch up. (Mercury, Gemini, explorer, Cassini, skylab, the list goes on).
Russia and China ate interested in real science, America just does catch up.

Just stop.

>>10759435
Stop dabbing on seething burgers? Never.

Reminder to ignore the troll.

>>10759437
God, how fucking based would it be when Russia shoots down America's entire space presence with the S-500? While everyone else explores the stars burgers can get dabbed on. Kek.

>>10759442
Noted, I just wish he'd fuck off to /tv/ or wherever if this is all he wants to do all night.

To (try to) cheer things up, Nova Ultima B is coming this 4th of July.

>>10759448
S-500 can't hit geosats, and nobody wants to Kessler us all anyway

fusion time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5NfGAzSGT4

>when your existence has so little value and purpose that you need to shit on the floor for attention
oof, is it really that bad in vodkaland?

hi guys, I'll tell you all if any of the Dem nominees mention space stuff at the debate right now. Politics are part of space whether we like it or not....

>>10759468
What's that? I've not heard of it before.
>>10759529
Does Bernie saying "astronomical" count? His accent makes me laugh.

>>10759551
>What's that? I've not heard of it before.
Just a silly rocket drawing I've made a while ago. It got some good feedback, so I've started drawing a version 2 of it but didn't finish it because I'd figured that you guys would've gotten tired of my "lol big dumb rocket" drawings really quick if I kept doing it. I've decided to make it for this 4th of July since it seems appropriate and I've already gotten the assets for it.

>>10759560
Goddamn, nearly as tall as the Sea Dragon concept but looks wider. Looks like one of these could launch a whole Orion battleship without expending nukes in the atmosphere, cool.

>>10759569
Thanks! I'm pretty proud of it. However, a problem with Nova Ultima is that I rushed it while scaling it. So while the diameter is right-ish, it's actually quite squished length-wise. I'll fix that with Nova Ultima B.

BTW, NU-B is pushing more payload to LEO than Nuclear Sea Dragon.

how do you say "rocket" in Spanish? I might have missed it

>>10759579
https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=es&text=rocket

>>10759578
>more payload to LEO than Nuclear Sea Dragon
For when you want to put an entire football stadium in LEO, presumably.

>>10759589
the football stadium wouldn't survive the vibration

>>10759589
I actually tried to look up how much a football stadium weighs, but no avail. But on that topic, what kind of fun facts would you guys like to see about NU-B?

>>10759619
Just add struts lol
>>10759621
Find a common large object who's weight is within the payload limitations, then post it! Regardless whether or not it's a practical or even possible thing to launch, just for comparison's sake only.

>>10757195

>>10759675
JWST is just waiting for Starship to become operational so that it can be launched unfolded.

When is SpaceX's next launch?

>>10759569
The first stage is big enough to launch the entire Starship/SuperHeavy stack.

>>10759718
21st

>>10759730
Thanks

>>10759579
Cohete (h is mute)

>>10759203
/musk/

I saw the other day that NASA is considering adding a commercial segment to the ISS. Since the companies are all competing against each other to attach modules to the ISS, do we think that this approach might work in everyone's favor? Having a module up there is better than having no module right?

>>10758837
they delayed the Electron launch 24 hours

>>10759727

>>10759794

>>10759080
only 3-5 months to Mars, 6-9 is when you optimize for least fuel consumption, not what you want with passengers on board

>>10759765
What's the point when the ISS is only going to last another 10 years at best?

>>10759990
I guess use it as a testbed for future stations? If a company gets a working module then they'll have the knowhow to put one up during initial construction of the next station, even if it's just the lame Gateway.

>>10759154
>Building the propellant plant
>managing the tunnel bore digging
Nice, and where's all that hardware they should be using? I see the rocket being done, what else?

>>10759765
>commercialized ISS
Not happening private companies are different creatures from state bureaucracies.
It's burning up in few years then we can think of building another one to keep people in the sector employed for the next decades.

They’res a new NASA probe thing being announced this afternoon

>>10759998
Elon made The Boring Company to get a head start on the digging
propellant plant is fucking easy except for the mining

>>10760475
Probe as in investigation or probe as in spacecraft?

>>10760546
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-to-announce-new-solar-system-mission-hold-media-teleconference

>>10760517
but the boring company doesn't do anything useful yet, they are too busy marketing sewer tunnels as traffic ones

>>10760599
yeah it's kind of silly

>>10760517
>propellant plant is fucking easy except for the mining
Never fucking say that for anything space-related.
Besides, it might be somewhat easier than everything else, as long as the specific deposit is confirmed and prospected, either by manned or unmanned missions, but no missions like that are planned. Refining something you only sense remotely (on the statistical physics level) is nearly impossible. As an example, just think why Huygens was made like that, even the DISR has not been using any lenses just to play it safe.

>>10760640
>Never fucking say that for anything space-related.
"space is hard" is a meme

>>10760643
You didn't read the actual argument, I see.

>>10760599
Well they did just win that contract to build a tunnel transport system under the Las Vegas convention center. Should be a good place to get things started at least.

>>10760643
yeah, so where's the fully reusable falcon 9 now?
real life's always more complex than the concept art you drew while explaining that to an investor

>>10760655
>so where's the fully reusable falcon 9 now?
Replaced by an even more ambitious system currently in development

>>10759727

>>10760660
not really, you can infinitely move goalposts with arguments like that

what actually happened is they failed to back their initial marketing up, because the reality was more complex than they expected, in particular they couldn't rely just on cold gas thrusters alone, the heatshield was too tricky to fit on a second stage, the aerothermodynamics of a long-shaped stage didn't allow it to make a reentry with only a front-facing heatshield etc
in other words, the vehicle was much heavier than they expected due to little IRL details they haven't expected
this was correctly predicted right after they showed their plans in 2005

the same with the dragon lab and many other things, and it's the same as with any other company's concepts. SpaceX has some tech lead in aerothermodynamics, GPU CFD and many other things, but that doesn't change the nature of engineering
just don't drink the kool-aid and everything will be fine

the VAB becomes more V

>>10759998
Boring company and off the shelf shit
Elon stated multiple times that they don't intend to do the mission solo, and will be making use of massive amounts of partnerships to fill in the gaps

>>10760843
Texas or Florida?

>>10760916
Texas

SLS ML-1 rolling out to pad 39B for final fit checks and testing. Next time it leaves the VAB, there'll be an SLS riding on-top of it.

>I believe the technical term is "absolute unit"

>>10760931
wow, that's the most real that SLS has ever looked

>>10760931
Ah yes, the expendable launchpad. Reusable launchpads are a meme.

Joking aside, I'm pretty glad that SLS is getting closer to launch. Hopefully it goes well.

>>10760942
ML-1 is going to be used for at least 3 launches now. Main reason they're building a second one is because they'd have to tear it apart and put it back together for it to be able to support Block 1B.
Remember, the current SLS ML is actually the old Ares I ML. Just with a metric fuckton of structural reinforcement and Jerry-rigged plumbing. It's basically at its limits as-is.

test

>>10760958
use the /qa/ test thread you nigger

>>10760948
Oh, guess that explains the big-ass scorch mark about halfway up the tower.

>>10760963

>>10760965
Pretty sure that's just the shadow of one of the umbilical arms, anon.

nice

>>10760942
I'm actually kind of happy with the decision to delay the block-1B until the Artemis missions.
Using space-X to do the heavy lifting until then allows for a lot more money to be shifted towards its development. Its what they should have done from the start.

>>10760977
Ms. Tree (mystery) finally lured the faring into her net.

>>10759765
The only module in the near future from a private company that would dock with ISS is probably a larger bigelow module, as a test unit.
Outside of that no way.
And ISS only has another 10 years max, as soon as gateway is up and running the funding will completly dry up.

>>10760993
Now the arms will close, trapping the fairing so she can digest it. When her meal is finished, she'll open her arms again to await the next unwitting fairing. Nature's beautiful sometimes.

>>10760552
They're choosing between Dragonfly (drone that flies around Titan) and CAESAR (comet sample return). I'll be legit pissed if they go with the latter.

>>10761023
CAESAR sounds way better, personally
Dragonfly will never make budget

>>10761023
I want to see more of Titan's surface.

>>10761030
How could they forget doppler shift in radio communication with that Titan probe, yes they realised that and adjusted trajectories but lost some data iirc

>>10761042
It was a miscommunication issue between JPL and ESA/Aerospatiale. A command from Cassini to switch the Huygens' TUSO (a stable oscillator) on before the separation has been lost somewhere in the humongous specification that one huge organization generated for another huge organization.
>they realised that and adjusted trajectories
they actually detected the Huygens signal directly from Earth (a 3W from a patch antenna on the Titan!), which is kind of an achievement
sadly, TUSO pulse also acted as a carrier signal for a second radio channel (by design of the experiment), so half of descent photos was lost

>>10760994
I think the next module is NanoRacks no? The airlock module that hosts scientific payloads. It's supposed to launch soon. Bigelow might be the module that goes up after NanoRacks. I'm not sure if anyone else has any hardware built yet besides those two.

>>10761023
Fuck orbiters. I want landers on Titan and Europa

>>10761089
>they actually detected the Huygens signal directly from Earth (a 3W from a patch antenna on the Titan!)
Didn't know that! How is that possible?

>>10761025
CAESAR will probably be cheaper and less risky, but I'd gladly trade this and other future comet/asteroid missions (Lucy, Psyche, etc.) for a Titan mission.

>>10761139
A 100m dish and knowing precisely what you're searching for does wonders. And they didn't decode the signal, they only picked the carrier from well under the noise floor.

tune in lads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21X5lGlDOfg

>>10761321
have they named the 2020 rover yet? also my bets are on the helicopter mission as they have one on the 2020 rover, so this would sorta be the continued research of that in a low atmosphere environment

DRAGONFLY CONFIRMED

Dragonfly!

>>10761346
>>10761348
they got excited by Trump and Artemis and now they're going to crash and burn
I look forward to their success

titan is cool. Wrote about it some years ago.
facts:

Orbital Parameters
Distance from Earth: ~8-10 AU
Rough max distance: 1.517*109 km (Saturn aphelion + Titan aphelion + Earth aphelion)
Rough minimum distance: 1.204*109 km (Saturn perihelion - Titan perihelion - Earth perihelion)
Orbital Period: 15.945 Earth days (with synchronous rotation)
Inclination: 0.33°

Physical Characteristics
Largest moon of Saturn
Mass: 1,345.5*1020 kg (2.25% Earth mass, 184% Moon mass)
Visual Geometric Albedo: 0.22 (50.6% Earth albedo, 9.26% Moon albedo)
Mean Density: 1880 kg/m3 (34% Earth density, 56% Moon density)
Radius: 2,575 km (48% Earth radius, 148% Moon radius)
Acceleration at Surface due to Gravity: 1.354 m/s2 (13.8% Earth gravity, 83% Moon gravity)
Atmospheric Pressure: 162.12 kPa (160% Earth pressure, 5.5*1016% Moon nighttime pressure)
Atmosphere Composition: ~95% Nitrogen, ~5% Methane

>>10760843

Been out of the loop. What is this thing?

>>10761354
Interesting Surface Characteristics
-In general, Titan is an icy shell surrounding a liquid interior sea.
-Craters are 1% of the surface area. Most craters are at low latitudes.
-Linear dunes compose 18% of the surface area. These dunes are made up of porous organics.
-There are a number of theories as to the creation of these large (100 meter high) dunes. One is that, similar to Earth, coriolis forces sent particulates westward across the equatorial regions, which drives dune buildup.
-The largest surface feature is Xanadu, composing 14% of the surface. It is a 4,500 km wide mountainous area, possibly the remains of an ancient impact. Xanadu is the oldest surface feature on Titan, and is extremely radar-bright. It has 2-9x higher crater density than Titan average.
-Titan has stable standing liquid (methane/ethane) on its surface, and an active hydrologic cycle.
-Lakes compose 1.5% of the surface, with the three largest lakes being comparable in size to the great lakes in North America.

>>10761354
minimum distance would be minus earth aphelion, dumbass, not minus earth perihelion

>>10761361
-Titan’s lakes are potentially stratified, with ethane sinking below the methane.
-Titan’s small lakes typically interact with the hydrologic system through infiltration, while the large lakes interact through evaporation. Some lakes are thought to be formed by methane rainfall; this precipitation occurs at all latitudes.
-10% of Titan’s surface lakes are empty. These empty lake features can be 150-300 meters deep.
-Large parts of Titan are dissected by fluvial river networks, which contribute to erosion on the surface.
-Cryovolcanic features are 0.6% of the surface area. These volcanoes might act as a methane source for Titan’s atmosphere.
-Featureless, low-relief, dark planes compose 14% of Titan’s surface at the mid-latitudes.
-Titan does experience seasons (taking place over a 29.5 year cycle), which are thought to influence some of the morphology of the moon, mainly adjusting the distribution of hydrocarbons by decreasing Titan’s overall insolation.
-Meteors up to a kilometer in size can be safely disintegrated by the thick atmosphere before they impact the surface.


>>10761365
lol whoops, my bad

>>10761359
probably vehicle assembly building? it's in /spg/ and it's a large building with a door the height of the structure in it so...

>>10761359
they're building some sort of building near the Starship prototypes in Boca Chica

>>10761369
>>10761370

Cheers, thank you both.

2026 launch, 2034 arrival.

>2026 flight
>2034 landing
ouch

>2034

Jesus Christ, we'll have dozens of men on Mars by then.

There's a reasonable chance SpaceX could beat them there.

>>10761408
outer planets take a long time to get to no matter what

>>10761408
>>10761403
>>10761409
>outer planets take a long time to get to no matter what

Nope, only 2 years to Saturn with a dedicated Starship expendable variant.

http://toughsf.blogspot.com/2019/05/starship-lite-from-rapid-interplanetary.html

will this be the first nuclear powered aircraft?

>>10761419
neato; well they did say they're decide on the LV in 2023. Bet they'll just pay for an expendable one then? Probably comparable to other launchers

>>10761408
This is made for a medium-lift rocket, so maybe a heavy-lifter could send something faster, but they wouldn't waste their money on another probe to beat Dragonfly.

>>10761419

Nice find

>>10761421
no

"we're all sitting on our seats excited about this"
jesus that reporter is fake

>>10761469
It's too early for the edge of the seat so they're just sitting normally.

>>10761419
>2 years using rocket that doesn't exist and will never exist
yikes

What's stopping us from sending a starship to europa landing it. Unloading a nuclear powered probe. Instead of drilling it just melts downard through the ice. Potentionally till it can't and you know you can wire it with cams, sensors of all kinds. It just needs to be waterproof as it diigs through the ice

>>10761510
Nothing besides the lack of starship and the decade or two needed to develop the probe.
Maybe more judging by JWST and how cutting edge something like that would be.

>>10761510
because BFR's inherent design makes it bad at that

>>10755485
such a sad little life

>>10761529
Looks... impressive?

>>10761548
The Delta-V (just changes in velocity, regardless of where they come from) needed to reach the surface of Europa from Low Earth Orbit is 17.52 km/s.

>>10761401
>2034 arrival
underwhelming

time to call SpaceX

>>10761572
It looks like its carrying a lot of tons. Is there a way to convert that into more velocity so it gets to 17.52km/h?

>>10761178
After The Martian release, I think I remember someone calculating that in this situation, they could talk to the radio on an EVA suit on Mars directly from Earth using something like Arecibo

>>10761516
If Musk was focused on telescopes, he would say he'll develop JWST but better in a year. Would take him 3. The problems with JWST are the same as with every other big construction today - capitalism likes to build them, but not finish them.
What Musk did with space industy is to show how inefficient, uninspired and backwards it was.

>>10761592
Fly an expendable upper stage, with a kick stage on top of that.

>>10761658
reusable upper stage, refueled on a highly elliptical orbit, with a kick stage

>>10761510
>What's stopping us from sending a starship to europa landing it

>>10761658
>>10761709
>fully fueled starship in highly elliptic earth orbit
>burns 4+ km/s into earth escape, detaches payload and burns back to reenter over several orbits
>payload is multi-staged kick stage with fully fueled ion sat on top

>>10761720
there's literally nowhere in the solar system you could go where an ion sat would have enough energy to burn after that much delta v
unless you're launching a nuclear reactor

>>10761646
>capitalism bad
>because government cost+ contracting with trusted government approved contractors is terribly inefficient when compared to the private sector
wat

>>10761725
The delta v is not to get to the target, it's to get there fast. Otherwise many many years will pass before something, especially something meant to enter orbit, gets to destinations beyond Jupiter.

>>10757957

>>10758938
>>10758030
>>10758035
>>10757957
I fucking love this "spacepunk shipyard in a field in texas" aesthetic

>>10761720
Couldn't you use a few gravity assists, or send with it a tanker throw away

>>10760680
Finally! A vehicle that can return 100 tons from Venus surface!

>>10759841
is it a scrub if they only promise you you'll launch anywhere within a two week window?

(and they delayed another 24 hours)

>>10761596
>try to build a pieceful, independent society on Mars
>literally impossible because earth keeps broadcasting bullshit on all your radios

>>10761896
>begin jamming the rogue Earther broadcasts
>Earth sends a fleet out to smash the Martian colony back into dust
>Solomon Epstein invents a magic engine

MORE JIGS

>>10761748
Private sector is into making money, not altruistic space exploration. Even Musk would get nowhere without public money. Capitalism with no govt would not even leave the atmosphere.
However a backwards agrarian country destroyed by a great war and some revolutions and controled by an insane dictator was able to put a man in space. Capitalism can't even beat that.

>think the expanse is cool
>do the math on how efficient an engine would have to be to make brachistone trajectories viable
>end up with a result I think is an error
>recheck my numbers
>nope you literally need exhaust velocities in the hundreds of thousands of m/s

>>10761510

>>10759430
Mars rovers
Outer planet orbiters and flyby probes

>>10761864
any gravity assist or a low energy trajectory is a trade-off between time and delta v
both rise ~exponentially when moving away from an optimal lambert solution

>>10761927
yeah, brachistone are science fiction and will stay that way, unless we invent reactionless drives

>>10761927
now calculate how fast you can rotate ceres without it falling apart. spoiler: it's a surprisingly low velocity, because celestial bodies are in the hydrostatic equilibrium, by rotating them you're countering the force that keeps them intact, and making a centrifuge out of a celestial body is impossible.

expanse is a space opera, you have to be retarded to think it's realistic somehow

>>10761996
in fact, that is one of the ways we distinguished stony, rubble-pile asteroids from the more rare iron asteroids, by their rate of rotation.

>>10761996
The funny thing is it the most realistic space show on tv

>>10761927
Aren't there fusion engines with exhaust velocities in the hundreds of kilometers per second?

>NET November - Falcon 9 • Crew Dragon Demo 2
Looks like old space will win this round.

>>10761975
can't you assume you aren't using total space and weight on a starship to get more favourable approach. The probe being nuclear powered doesn't have to be all that heavy.
Just needs a good enough rate of fission to melt through the ice. Which might be done with a light reactor. With an efficent enough kick stage it seems reachabe

new thread
>>10762121

>>10761996
The book was pretty clear that the engineering feat was reinforcing Ceres so it doesn't fly apart, and that spinning it up was less impressive than reinforcing it.

Last for /bezos/