/sci/ - Science & Math

no

>>10747361
>Implying the Romans made any scientific advancements
The hold of the dark ages was left by the Romans, not the Christians.

No, we'd probably be less technologically and scientifically advanced if religion had never existed.

>>10747374
Don't even need a citation. Just literally any argument whatsoever.

>>10747361
Kek

>>10747375
Religion was historically the basis for much of education and learning. The Catholic Church developed the university and Protestants developed public schooling, out of a desire to understand God, his written word, and the world he made. Theology may not be based on the scientific method, but it requires a high level of thinking in order to read, interpret, and understand scripture, and doing so required a level of education that the Christian world sought to spread.

>>10747383
It literally doesn't. It's an emotion magnet that demands constant sacrifice of higher thought. The same would have happened anyway just because people aren't fucking retarded. The major scientific discoveries were a function primarily of other scientific discovering, and the people who were curious, would have been curious about nature regardless of whether or not there was an intent behind nature's design.

The only real argument you can make along those lines is that literacy is the backbone of academia, and then blame the invention of the printing press solely on the church having already created a widespread market for that.

>>10747402
You have a very simplistic, reductionist, and emotional view of religion. The scientific method didn't just pop up out of nowhere, it required a mountain of data and technology to lead up to it. Living in the modern world with all of its comforts and wonders, you fail to understand the difficulty of scientific advancement in days before mass literacy.

>>10747402
Low IQ right here.

>>10747361
nice rigorous scientific graph you got there

>>10747407
>The scientific method didn't just pop up out of nowhere
That's exactly what it did. Someone got tired of arguing and said, "Okay look. If we divide out a ton of the more philosophical parts, here's how we test if our ideas matter." Argumentation is not the sole providence of religion, and the disagreements that motivated that came more reasonably from ordinary philosophy than from and religious meandering or differences. Those tend to lead to violence, rather than peaceful contemplation.

I'm not outright claiming that religion did not in any way influence mass literacy, but the idea that religion could be the only cause is baseless without further argument. Books weren't invented for religion.

>>10747361
Look at the extra-ordinary progresses we had in 50 years (men on the Moon, the Internet, the discovery of the DNA and its manipulation, etc.).

Imagine we had made this progress in 1650 instead of 1950...

>>10747418
>That's exactly what it did
No, that's exactly what it didn't do. Anon, I get that you're not a history major, but people have been doing what they can to grow their knowledge since the dawn of civilization. We didn't start out with alchemy because people were just too stupid to understand that chemistry was superior, we started out with alchemy because throwing shit together and seeing what happened was the best way we knew how to advance our knowledge, and once we compounded on that knowledge enough then we could finally switch over to chemistry. You have this very childish view that you're smart and everyone else in history was dumb, but really you're just narcissistic.

>>10747418
Brainlet.

>>10747402
lmao
if u accept god into your heart you will see through the bitterness you unwillingly indulge yourself in

>>10747438
It's the opposite; I know from my own experience that I have a highly analytical mind, and I can see how the exact person who invented the scientific method would create it, because I'd do the same, in the same situation, for the same exact reason. It's not "everyone else is dumb," it's "higher thought and people like me existed throughout history and their thoughts are minimally dependent on the environment."

You think the past is primitive because you were told to think of it that way. It's not. The ancients could create star charts.

>>10747453
>it's "higher thought and people like me existed throughout history and their thoughts are minimally dependent on the environment."
Says the person who's been educated moreso than any other generation throughout history and has access to all the wealth of the internet at his fingertips.
>The ancients could create star charts.
And yet they still held religious beliefs. You're arguing against yourself here.

>>10747383
>Religion was historically the basis for much of education and learning.

yea but the problem is : this education and this learning were shit.

We would've killed each other once and for good a long time ago without religion

>>10747464
Once again, it doesn't build on nothing. Stalinist atheism gave us the banning of untrustworthy quantum science and stupid shit like lysenkoism.

>>10747449
You being wrong about human causality isn't me being bitter about human nature. I'm saying we'd do the same shit regardless of ideological beliefs and traditions leading up to a discovery.
>>10747461
The presence of religious belief is irrelevant. It's a matter of how well they advanced science and why they even bothered. Few if any religions were created to explain why stars move the way they do. It was just something in the environment that people managed to notice. That just happens. It's a property of us being curious, and exists wholly independently of any given basis ideology.
>>10747470
Because? Again; I'm not even saying that's wrong but it doesn't fucking matter unless you can figure out why and argue about it.

>>10747480
>Few if any religions were created to explain why stars move the way they do
Exactly. Religions don't exist to explain how the universe works, so they also don't conflict with scientific beliefs.

>>10747361
Someone post the real graph

>>10747483
I didn't say they did. OP pic is retarded hyperbole. My argument is that religion had little if any effect whatsoever on the processes that led to the eventual discovery of applicable knowledge.

>>10747361
Religion was key factor that progressed humans further.
Religion brought a sense of community and belonging, it brought social cohesion, it brought education (e.g: schools), it brought purpose, it brought social solidarity, and so on.

By embracing a nihilistic, hedonistic, atheistic society, you're essentially embracing the collapse of society seeing you're removing the concept of meaning, purpose, sacrafice and societal cohesion.

Can you list me a successful atheistic civilization with all its innovations? Didn't think so

The moment mankind embraced religion, they embraced moving forwards

>>10747490

>>10747493
>brought a sense of community and belonging
>brought social cohesion
>brought education
>brought purpose
>brought social solidarity
No, those things occur naturally. It tried to codify a method of maintaining them and not letting civilization rest on its laurels. It has never worked. Comfort will always be the undoing of a society.

>>10747509
>those things occur naturally
So does religion.

>>10747540
We can measure the incidence rate of religious faith in any population of humans, and formally analyze the relevance of that faith in maintaining the greater economy to which that population is tethered.

>>10747361
> Would we be exploring space right now if there was no religion to punish heretics and people who suck dick?
Probably no. You remember the inquisition and the punishment of heretics because it's the most exciting and cited part of religion. However religion had a very important role in preserving past knowledge by copying books at monasteries.
Mind you, they did choose which kind of books had to be preserved and which had to be eliminated, but at least we have the former.

>>10747549
The relevance of the faith to the economy doesn't matter in regards to whether faith is natural or not, religion has damn near a 100% occurrence rate in civilizations throughout history.

>>10747558
The incidence rate with regard to the economy is the sole determining factor in measuring the total influence on culture (and thus knowledge) over a sample of history.

>>10747464
Double digit.

>>10747563
OK guys, we have a Marxist over here. No point arguing.

>>10747361
was turing a passive homosexual?

>>10747626
Notice this isn't even known. The true extent of his sexual deviancy was covered up as part of his lenient sentence.

>>10747361
Top bait

>>10747361
Definitely. Think about how backwards medieval Europe as compared to the Roman Empire

>>10747626
>>10747626
probably not it is just that the usual conservative kneejerk reaction is always the "turn it into a woman", he even grew tits

>>10747361
yes

> imagine being such a fucking chad religion, that even if you occupy barely one continent, you set the whole world back

>>10747383
>telling lies for jesus

>>10747490
>>10747494
Came here for this, thank you

>>10747361
>retards still interpret this as the fault of religion rather than the downfall of the holy roman empire
you dumb fucks

>>10747494
Fucking Koreans ruined everything

>>10747773
...Don’t you mean Roman Empire? The Holy Roman Empire wasn’t destroyed until the 1700’s if I remember correctly.

>>10747773
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire

>>10747779
>>10747788
disregard that i suck cocks

This is one of the dumbest jewish memes that cock sucking atheists gladly accept without questioning. Jewish how so? It solely targets Christianity implying rest of the world kept on developing at rapid pace which is blatantly false. Its is factually utter pilpul on so many levels, implying implications and pinning every negative on Christianity. Yes, Christian Europe went over hard times with pagans to north and east, including Mongol hordes, constant muslim raids all the way to England and actual war campaigns all the way to Paris outskirts, viking raids and the fucking Black Death to reall underscore how shit times were. None had anything to do with Christianity.

Despite all that, it were Christians who developed modern university system spawning from theology that is in use to this day. Christians developed seafaring capable reaching any corner of the earth. Christians started industrial revolution. Christians pushed back both islamic and pagan hordes. It wasn't until all the world began copying social order and institutions that happened in Christian Europe first that scientific thunder really happened. That graph is angsty jewish pilpul and I fixed it. Here.

Alan Turing was a brilliant mathematician, but I strongly doubt mathematical ability has anything to do with number of penises a man's anus has experienced.

>>10747361
mfw industrialisation might've started two millienniums ago

>>10747361
Yup.

Would've been on Mars already too, but environmentalists protested nuclear powered rockets.

>>10747361

Notice something... ALL progress in the last 2000 years is based on Europeans.
Not Asians, not North or South Americans, not Africans, not Australians, not islanders

Hmmmm... almost like there is something special about the Europeans... hmmmm

>>10747402
Incredibly low IQ right here

>>10747777

>>10748039
Elon's an African, born and raised

>>10748081
>Elon's an African, born and raised

Elon is a European who was born in Africa.

>>10748092
that's a nonsensical statement, /pol/

>>10748092
>Elon is a European who was born in Africa.

That’s logically incoherent.

You can correlate the advancement of science and technology to how efficient you produce large amounts of food.

>>10748102
shh, you'll crush his little superiority complex

>>10747977
Christianity is a false religion based on worshipping the literal King of Jews.
Funny how traditionalists faithfully follow Christ, but ignore the traditional European, pagan folk religions that their forefathers worshipped.

>>10748081
Elon, Derrida, Camus, and Augustine are the greatest Africans to have ever lived.

>>10748117
>ignore the traditional European, pagan folk religions that their forefathers worshipped.
Because they were amalgamated into Christianity in order to ease the pagan populations into it.
Easter and Christmas aren't anniversaries of the birth and resurrection of christ, they're co-opted pagan holidays so you can tell them "hey you can still have your spring celebrations, but now you can worship the resurrection of christ and pray in a church instead of fucking in fallow fields to ensure a fertile growing season.

>>10748141
>Because they were amalgamated into Christianity in order to ease the pagan populations into it.
Which should be the epitome of "Jewish" indoctrination to you, yet you defend it.
Pagans knew about the wave like nature of reality thousands of years before Planck, Schrodinger, or Bohr did. Science continues to confirm Pagan philosophy, yet people like you would rather have it discarded.

>>10748125
it's true, although I'm partial to Ian Smith and his contemporaries

>>10747361
Maybe we would, maybe we wouldnt. It doesnt matter, we cant change the past, only learn from it. The lesson here being - we shouldnt let external forces of ignorance restrain knowledge, no matter if those are religious or political or other kinds of zealots

>>10747428
Just imagine that!! So much regret that religion exists :'(

is this graph a joke?

>>10747402
>>10747464
The church, specifically monasteries, were the only institutions teaching people how to read and write for much of the medieval period. Monks were also the ones studying medicine and astronomy and preserving knowledge. Some of the lengths these monks went to in preserving old books was immense. I literally cannot fathom how people who have never read a single history book like you, or lack any sort of criticial thought, consider yourselves intelligent.

>the absolute amount of brainlets taking this seriously
Are people this fucking dumb? Look at the fucking axes on this graph, how the fuck are you taking it seriously? What the fuck?

>>10747361
What are the units of the scientific advancement axis? Is it linear, log, etc?

>>10748206
the unit of scientific advancement is 1 kiloNye

>>10747361
We're about to lose a few hundred more years when "intersectionality" gets its will and manges to "decolonize" our scientific institutions.

>>10747777
checked but it was the Finns' fault and I'll fight to the death to defend this truth

>>10748095
>>10748102
Ethnicity is not the same as coordinates on spherical object called Earth you happened to be born on. One is genetic, other is geographic. This should not be difficult.

>>10748117
Cool slide rabbi, or then you are just plain stupid and genuinely missed the point.

>>10748391
What point, that Christians apparently modern society? Perhaps you should look at what people were studying during the Renaissance and Enlightenment, two of the most important eras that lead to the present day.
You also call me a "rabbi", when you are the one worshipping the literal King of Jews.

>>10748410
Do you deny that it didn't spawn modernity? Where the fuck you drool faced retard kike think Renaissance and Enlightenment happened if not in Christian Europe?

>>10748420
The science and industry you claim Christians created were the direct result of said Christians studying Pagan knowledge. Isaac Newton being the most famous example.
Christianity only served to limit pagan knowledge. When Pagan knowledge rose into favor of European intellectuals, such as the Renaissance and Enlightenment thinkers, society benefited greatly.
We can only guess what the world would have been like without Jews and their derivative corruptions of pagan mystic philosophy.

>>10747988
can you imagine having incredibly capable technology available right in front of you and never actually using it for anything useful? Good thing we learned from that...

>>10747383

>science didn't exist before religion.

The arabs and chinese would like to have a word with you.

>>10748420
The renaissance was a product of the plague depopulating Europe which paved the way for a new boom.
The only real historical "dark age" was the bronze age collapse. Its arguable that the mongolian hordes in the middle east did far more lasting damage than the fall of rome or the empire ever did.

>>10748440
You dogshit infested brainlet know full well all those breakthrough advances happened in christian Europe, in christian societies, in christian universities, by christian men. It's utterly irrelevant how much of it is based on muh greeks because pagan Greeks did not do those civilizational breakthroughs that shook the whole worlr, neither did pagan Romans, or moslems, or hindus, or taoists or whatfuckelse. Only christians.

>>10748440
Hermetic philosophy as we know it is mostly post-Christian though and isn't exactly scientific either, although it provides interesting analogies and archetypes which can blend nicely with scientific thought. There are also examples of insightful Christian scientists like Georges Lemaître who is credited as the father of the Big Bang theory and was also a Catholic priest.

>>10747402
>t. reprobate

>>10748466
Not in systematic manner for sake of science itself as is understood as science today. That is entirely product of west-European independent university system that got started for Christian theology. Chinks may have invented gunpowder, but it took christian Europeans to explain them why exactly it goes boom two thousand years after its invention. They had no science at all!

>>10747361
>>10747494

>>10748476
You can frame the Renaissance however you like, the historical fact is that they were studying pagan philosophy. Regardless of if they believed what they were reading or not, it was the knowledge base on which modern society was built.

>>10748482
The earliest extant records of Hermetic teachings are post-Christain, but if you believe the texts themselves, the teachings go back to the earliest days of Egypt. Of course there's no way to verify such claims without more artifacts.
Regardless, Christian thinkers had plenty to work with, as Christianity can be considered as a distant derivative of Hermetic philosophy.

>>10748498
>Not in systematic manner for sake of science itself as is understood as science today.
Who were the Ionians?

>>10748515
Greeks on a small island.

>>10748499
very cringe

>>10747677
turing had tits? source?

>>10748553
google it

>>10747470
many wars where fought between believers of the same core concepts, said concepts where developed by elites to avoid starvation and other social problems at the time, which nowadays seem brutal or unreasonable, but when you live in the middle of nowhere and there's only one river, well..

>>10748510
>Christianity can be considered as a distant derivative of Hermetic philosophy
More like a distant derivative of Judaism with elements of classical philosophy, although some early Christian trends like Gnosticism borrowed heavily from late-antiquity non-Christian esoteric movements.

>>10748549
Just like this entire thread and laughable OP chart and subject. The church preserved more knowledge so it wouldn't be lost.

>>10747418
Great bait, anon. (I assume you don't believe the drivel you wrote down).

>>10747383
>The Catholic Church developed the university
Wrong, the Greeks did that first.

>>10748499
that's depressing to think about

>>10747361
There is nothing to "explore" in space. Space is a giant waste of time and resources. Space is not fit for human travel or even unmanned probe travel.

>>10748838
without the promise of space travel there is no incentive to advance science. the only reason we've come so far as to allow you to shitpost about this on the internet is because of man's restless nature. his symbolic yearning fuels his discovery. what do you propose we stay on earth for, anyway? either we destroy it or replenish it. but its resources are finite and our population continues to grow. i have a feeling you're a hippie.

>>10748838
>Space is not fit for human travel or even unmanned probe travel.
Hmmm, I thought aliens only posted on /x/.

>>10748838
agreed. space travel needs a major breakthrough to be feasible, i think asteroid mining would be a start

>>10748838
>or even unmanned probe travel
Unmanned probe travel is doing pretty good actually.

>>10748081
>Your family visiting Africa for a few decades means all the evolution that happened in their tens of thousands of years of not being in Africa didn't happen and now your the same as the mud-hutters

>>10749170
/pol/, shut the fuck up

>>10748481
>Only christians
So where are the Ethiopian Mars and Moon bases? They were the very first Christian country, they should have gotten an incredible head start on everyone else.

>>10749194
Ethiopia is a prime example of what happens to scientific progress when christians are under existential threat. They have been surrounded by muslims since 8th century and never managed to push them back safe distance like Europeans did. Same with armenians and georgians. Renaissance in Europe started soon after christians had managed to combat relative safety from moslem barbarians, very soon after Andalusian reconqista. Ethiopia never had that luxury of safety.

>>10747361
In reality the hole is caused by the collapse of the Roman empire due to Germanics, Huns, etc. Going from a connected europe to various chiefs and kings ruling, warring, pillaging the land causes a huge disruption in economy and production for the region and gives little time to focus on scientific endeavors

>>10749184
Not an argument

>>10747361
>numbers on the bottom
>no numbers on the sides
stupid picture, your not half as smart you think you are.

>>10749194
Ethiopia was somewhat set back by being in Ethiopia.

>>10747383
>Protestants developed public schooling
However predicated by the jesuits, might I add.

>>10749016
i think he meant that it doesn't do anything you would find on star wars

i remember they even wanted to reach oumuamua to check it up close but had to drop that because even something within our own solar system can be too "far away", it is very limiting what you can do due to resources, time, etc...

>>10747361
How is "scientific advancement" measured?

>>10749716
wow rekt

>>10750590
that wasn't dropped, they just gave up on actually catching up to oumuamua, but they'll be ready next time
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/ESA_s_new_mission_to_intercept_a_comet

>>10747373
Right... sure.

>>10747361
By the same token, think of where we'd be now if the Nazis had won instead of us all going extinct due to multiculturalism.