/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10744239
I can't prove it, my whole career is a lie

>>10744239
Quantity exists, numbers are the descriptor of it.

>>10744239
I define "existing" as a quality of numbers.
By definition, numbers exist.

>>10744239
Sure
*counts on my fingers*
There you go. That's all the proof you need. If that doesn't suffice, consider that you may be a pedantic philosophotard

>>10744256
>Quantity exists
no, objects exist. quantity is something your monkey brain adds as a layer of abstraction. So without a interpreter any mathematical concept wouldnt exist

>>10744281
Can objects be counted? Yes? Okay then quantity exist.

>>10744281
Wrong again, idiot:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sense_in_animals
Quantity is a property of animals. In fact, quantity also seems to matter on a physical level too, consider things like "critical mass".

>>10744289
>*property of objects

>>10744271
whats next are you going to draw a unicorn and that would prove that they exist?
do you use same "proof" for your mathematical theories as well?

>>10744291
Critical mass is a property of objects
Animals are a kind of object

>>10744281
Some one gets it.

>>10744294
Animal isn't general enough, quantity is a property of all objects, including animals. Which is why I corrected myself.

>>10744292
>t. pedantic retard
>implying this isnt a bait thread

>>10744298
The OP was "do numbers exist." Numbers are definitively a descriptor of quantity. If quantity exists, so do numbers. Quantity exists.

>>10744307
What? Yes, I know.
I am: >>10744256, >>10744289, I corrected myself in: >>10744291, and explained why I corrected myself in: >>10744298

>>10744309
Oh sorry, I didnt see the asterisk

>>10744309
>>10744298
again quantity as a concept wouldnt exist without an interpreter therefore if an universe didnt have a sentient life form that universe wouldnt have concepts like numbers, quantity and math
bluntly speaking numbers are in the same category as superman
both wouldnt exist is a universe didnt have an interpreter

>>10744326
who gives a shit. none of this really matters considering that mathematics is ridiculously useful. the assumption that numbers exist (at least in some abstract way) is justified by utility.

>>10744281
>objects exist
haha no they don't fag

>>10744326
*pulls out knife*
Listen here, punk, numbers are REAL. REALS ARE REAL?! DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?!

>>10744239
Why can you approximate the circumference of a circle with pi?

The most common retort I've seen is "perfect circles don't exist in reality" but honestly, that's just kinda side stepping the question. Clearly there are objects which are circle-like and you can extrapolate a lot of useful information from these objects using pi, even though they aren't perfectly circular. And the closer the object is to a perfect circle, the more precisely pi can describe those objects.
Perfect circles don't exist in the universe but the universe does have a concept of "circleness", one which all things in the universe have to obey. How could you in any way explain the usefulness of pi of it don't hold some fundamental truth about the universe?

Why would I price anything to you? You don't even exist.

>>10744239
Electrons exist. Numbers are made of electrons. Therefore numbers exist.

>>10744239
Prove that anything "exists".

>>10744239
Yeah, here's one: 34

>>10744239
Philosophy questions go on /his/

The answer can be found in Aristotle's Metaphysics.

>>10744239
Is your post the 10745239th? Count backwards. The numbers must represent something consistent about reality.

>>10744239
Numbers are a property of structures of various representations s.t. those representations are equivalent up to isomorphism and thereby computationally interchangable.
Computationally interchangable means that whatever causally interacts or makes predictions based upon a representation of whatever structure is being counted is teleologically isomorphic.

>>10744326
Compuers interpret information as numbers without humans needed. Sentience is not a necessary property.

>>10744239
>can any of you mathfags even prove that numbers exist?
Why would i need to? Math is simply a distilled form of reasoning, a mathematician doesn't need to know what is he talking about, he just needs to reason about it perfectly.

Numbers are mathematical objects which are a special case of abstract objects which exist in the mind. Whether an abstract object exists shall turn on whether it exists. If it the abstract object is known, it exists. Also, the application of numbers proves their existence. If you want to go even further you could compare people's thoughts and imaging of their brains to determine whether they share the same conception of the object or if there are differences between them, so as to prove whether one person's conception of 'number' exists in the mind of another's. You could start by comparing mathematicians with students, non mathematicians and tribal people that can only count to five or those that don't even have language for numbers.

>>10745055
Coded by sentient beings. If sentient beings didn't exist, there wouldn't be the abstraction in the first place.

Mathematical objects aren't the construction of a mind, intuitionism is retarded and wrong.
Numbers, OP, are the ONLY things that exist.

>>10745131
But sentient beings do exist so this is a moot point