/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10738118
>>how mars could be used to create a better society
having that discussion is worthless until it can be shown that self sufficient colonies can be made on mars using a finite amount of resources.

>>10738118
We already have a succesfull spaceflight general that covers everything you want to talk about.

>>10738160
Shit sorry

>>10738137
Mars is no harder than Antarctica if you bring a nuclear reactor

>muh radiation
Build underground, ezpz

>muh oxygen
Compress the atmosphere, it's almost 2% nitrogen and 0.15% oxygen. Split off the carbon dioxide, compress it thousands of times, and it's pretty much breathable. Much easier than the complex recycling systems needed in space.

>muh travel times / muh plants / muh psychology
Stop trying to send outdoorsmen with strong Type A personalities to space, the meek shall inherit the heavens

An ideal colony would be somewhere low elevation (for a denser atmosphere) with accessible water ice.

>>10738118

Fuck space. We're all going to die on this shitty planet so we'd better get used to the idea.

And I actually work in aerospace. on rockets.

>>10738118
I got something much better in mind:
>Unified world government
>Service guarantees citizenship
>Would you like to know more?

>>10738598
good fucking luck with that.

Why not a sisterhood?

have you considered the fact that humans cannot grow properly in anything other than 1g. all this talk of new society and other rubbish is laughable. humans will never succeed in space. sending probes/orbiters is as good as it gets, colonies will never ever see the light of day not even on the moon

>>10738118
>2. moneyless society
Way to kill your colony, D*ster scum

>>10739203
o ye of little vision, just put the colonies in big hamster wheels except sideways and tilted, like a huge gravitron

>>10739203
>have you considered the fact that humans cannot grow properly in anything other than 1g

Literally 100% unproved. There is a big difference between 0.4G and Zero G.

>>10739425
no such thing as sideways in space

>>10739425
one motherfucker did this at the fair on Mars . He leaned back too far and rippen through that canvas ceiling above him. I guess it fling him about a block away before he landed in somebody's habitat.

They still use the same machine, but there's a huge duct tapped patch over one of those triangles in the ceiling.

>>10739470
we were supposed to research it
but then the nasa niggers cancelled the spinning module because apparently you may do only one single thing on an entire goddamn multi-module space station

>>10738118
>Build colony on mars
>Everyone has horrific musculo-skeletal issues
>Deformed string-bean bodies that can't support their own weight and organs

Mars is a meme, Venus is probably the only viable candidate for an extra-terrestrial surface colony in our Solar system. Even then it would take at least a thousand years or so to terraform it to be habitable.

Human colonization of space will be almost entirely artificial research platforms, mining outposts, O'Neill cylinders, and ring worlds. Planets are simply uneconomical to inhabit, and gravitational issues are too complex. Artificial space habitats arranged in Lagrange points are the future desu.

>>10740259
see
>>10739425
we still have yet to even research the effects of low gravity on any living creatures
all we have is zero gravity, and zero is a lot fucking different from low
blame NASA corruption for that

>>10740259
>>10740352
so basically Gundam is the future of mankind... woahhhh

>>10740410
it's so fucking cheap to get off of Mars and so much to gain from going down that denying the utility of planets and insisting on O'Nealian space is retarded

As much is it may inflame the Zubrin crowd, we really do need to colonize the moon first. The Gateway project and its successor, industrial projects, science and habitation. The "people" will probably go straight from the moon to Mars, just because they're the most qualified and adventurous. So by the time they get to Mars they'll be 2 cultural degrees separate from Earth as a nationless incorporated entity of some sort. Governments will have realized launching their own assets is far too much work. Whatever media the consume will be the shaping force on Mars. And there is a bandwidth limit for this kind of exchange. One person can only consume so much static media per unit of time, emulating some sort of pre-internet entertainment broadcasting mechanics.

>>10738412
>Mars is no harder than Antarctica
Other than getting there.

>>10738598
Hi RAH, I thought you was ded.

>>10739203
Citation ?

>>10740419
i don't think so , asteroids are more esay to extract resources , but considering than build O'Neill cylinders needed a strong government an the idea of work for a decade or even more ...

>>10740259
>ring worlds

Probably should read the sequel.

>>10740440
it was garbage.. (an they are three)

>>10740440
I think he should try learning how to communicate in English first

>>10740439
the idea that we may only do one of these ideas is retarded
we'll be doing both at once, as fucktons of people want to do planet autism and others want habitat autism

>>10740475
we need giant robots I vote for the autistic behavior more radical.

PS: i don't think that a government does something , not even a conglomerate , none want to build a colony on the moon and less they have a "serious" plan to colonizing the outer space (or planets) .. just we are so selfish
i don't see possible that for the next hundred years we change enough to start to build.

>>10740475
habitat autism is bad and wrong
>>10740533
your english skills are bad and wrong

>>10740540
your life is bad and wrong bitch

>>10740700
ain't it the truth

>>10738118

Who like me thinks that we should aim to colonize Venus before Mars?

Reasons:

Oxygen is already there fixed into a CO2 form
More gravity ---> No gas escape in space
Once the pressure reduced has a better habitable zone situation than Mars.

>>10740410
Obviously. Gundam is basically hard-sci-fi with a kiddy coat of paint to sell toys.

>>10740419
>>10740475
I didn't mean to imply that there won't be some kind of research or mining habitats permanently on Mars, that's a given. I just don't think people will live in those environments permanently like they could in an artificial space habitat. I suspect that in the case of Mars and Mercury there will be dozens if not hundreds of surface facilities staffed by colonists whose primary residence is off world in an orbiting large artificial habitat.

But most space colonization is likely to be non-planetary surface based, at least until some unforeseeable future when either FTL (highly improbable), or advanced Terra-forming technologies become available. Even then Mars and Mercury would have problems with low gravity and would not be able to keep an artificial atmosphere for any length of time.

It doesn't make economic sense to inhabit other planets long term, other than maybe strip-mining and research. Possibly recreation too.

>>10741205
artificial space habitats are too expensive both to make and to upkeep, living at the bottom of a gravity well is cheaper because all of the material you need is right there, you don't need to import anything

>>10741211
>expense
At the level of technology where colonization of planets long term is possible, extracting mass resources from asteroids and planets will be trivial and will make the costs of artificial habitats much cheaper. Also, artificially habitats would ideally be mostly self sufficient in upkeep, only requiring shipments of raw materials to repair damage over time.

>>10741216
>at the level of technology
oh, if you're depending on magic to make this shit work just say so
my plan doesn't require any magic, and people will be living at the bottom of gravity wells

10741219
>any technology that doesn't exist RIGHT NOW is
pure magic

>>10741205
imagine being so much of an obese weeb that you think millions of engineers and scientists are wrong and the underpaid chinks who write fantasy is the future of humanity.

>>10740352
wrong. theyve fertilized mice eggs on the iss and many other creatures.

>>10738118
>>10738137
Why finite? It's all about adaptability. Aluminium is one of the most abundant materials on the surface of Mars and so is silicon. They can both be used by pre-made fabricators to continuously expand the available energy source. Electric motors should be made using aluminium wires and iron or nickel for the plates that make up the stator and rotor.

Basically you need to set up a colony in such a way that it's build entirely with on-site materials and production methods. Otherwise you'll be dependent on support from Earth forever. Underground bases would limit structural needs due to the different atmospheric pressures.

>>10738118
Send all the criminals and space hipsters to Mars.

>>10742364
Do you want space Australia? Because that's how you get space Australia.

>no air
>no power
>no water
>just radiation that makes chernobill look like campfire

Sounds like a great place to spend tax money on who signed me up for that I want out.

10742493

Why do you think that all others planet aren't already colonized?. Rumors say the government is already in contat with like 150 species+.
Why you should think that you have to expand when we have already problems to resolve in our world?.
In this specific planet you talking about: "mars", there could be an insectoid race. references:
-The film Starship troopers, another anime film starship troopers - the traitor of mars.
-Futurama 6x8 (minute 19:26): Mars university "a giant pulsating mind is a terrible thing to waste" reference of starship troopers.
-Some footage of aracnid insect on youtube.
-Far cry 5 mission: lost on mars, where you have to fight with aracnids in a reserch center.

Another referencce in "gravity falls" 1x8 (minute 13:50), where he talks about big spiders.

>>10740732
Mars is a better candidate for short-term colonization.
Venus is a better candidate for teraforming.

Can the /x/tards go the fuck home

>>10740352
1/3 isn't even that low. We aren't talking about micro gravity. 1/3 might work out to have neglibile effects to development. Point is no one knows.

>>10743040
reread the post
I literally just said that nobody knows
and 1/3 is low in comparison to full 1g

>>10743067
just re-iterating that no one knows. And 1/3 gravity is significant compared to all the testing being done more or less in free fall on the iss

>>10740439
>asteroids are more esay to extract resources
Source?

>>10738118
>unified single government
>moneyless society
>social brotherhood

Do you know how I know you are underage and mentally retarded?

>>10739602
On low gravity worlds you dummy, build your colonies inside the crust of small moons and spin them.

>>10741219
No, it just requires that the people colonizing those gravity wells become horrific string-bean people who can't support their own organ and skeleton structures.

>>10741597
And none of those millions of scientists and engineers have come up with a solution to the gravitational issues of colonizing Mars or the Moon.

With our current understanding of how gravity effects human development long term colonization of natural gravity well in our Solar system other than Venus (which has a million other issues to consider), simply isn't possible long term. Colonists could live on these planets for a time, but their children couldn't.

By the time we develop the technology to live on such gravity wells full time, space built habitats will be cheaper and more economical than building permanent colonies on Mars, or some other rocky gravity well in the outer Solar system.

>>10743183
>gravitational issues
no such thing exists

>>10738118
The roboticization of humans is step one.
High orbit solar farms and deregulated ground based fission is step two.
Space elevators is step three.
Ground based and orbiting computer farms to house human brains is step four.
Increasing power requirements causes step five to be a Dyson constellation, a full swarm or sphere may not be possible.
Step six is interstellar exploration.
The future is metal.

>>10743224
nice science fiction tell me more

>>10743224
>we need to explore space so
>we need to improve our bodies
>we need to increase our mental capabilities
I agree with this.

>>10743216
>Low gravity isn't a problem despite 50+ years of research into this very issue, LAALLALALA I CANT HEAR YOU

Grow up.

>>10743261
no such research has been conducted, you might be thinking of the 50+ years of microgravity research?

>>10743296
>1/10th gravity won't have a similar or the same effect as nearly zero G

Stop being obtuse. A low gravity environment WILL cause developmental issues in humans, no matter how much you want to hold your head in the sand and pretend otherwise.

>>10743310
low gravity is millions of times stronger than microgravity, anon
tell me that they're the same again

>>10743318
>low and zero gravity are the same

Read my post again, brainlet, no where did I imply that. I said the EFFECTS would be similar.

>>10743323
shut the fuck up till you have any evidence at all

>>10743333
>We've never studied gravity on the moon

Wow, look at this retard.

>>10743341
>150 man-hours total
>split up around two days apiece
you don't spontaneously explode in low gravity any worse than you do in microgravity
it's also easier to keep your lunch down
wow, such data
much info

>>10743348
it's a troll, lad

>>10743348
>you don't spontaneously explode
Where did I imply that? I said that low g causes developmental issues.

You know what, i'll concede that our current understanding of the effects of low g on humans is incomplete and flawed. But by the same measure, we don't KNOW if low g is completely safe for colonists either, the lack of data goes both ways anon.

I'm willing to bet though that a lot of the problems you get in zero g (blood flow issues, skeletal issues, muscular issues, etc), apply at to at least some degree in low g as well. Humans are acclimated to and evolved for millions of years in a specific gravity, and removing us from that gravity could (and I emphasize COULD) likely cause all kinds of issues. More so on a developing infant than on an adult. We won't know for sure until more low g research is conducted, but it's a reasonable assumption that there will be issues with low g. Whether it's something that can be corrected with exercise and medical care or if it's an insurmountable obstacle remain to be seen. Artificial space habitats will always be an economical choice in the long run regardless, they just make sense.

>>10738412
Or just use electrolysis on martian water ice for oxygen. NASA is also working on MOXIE, and of course greenhouses could be useful.

>>10739203
>Not wanting to be a tall, pale Martian chad

Why create a communist utopia on Mars when you could just force one via violent revolution here.

Also, the barter system is a meme invented by economists, and has no historical precedence.

>>10740424
Gateway project is unnecessary though, zubrins direct plan is still simpler and more efficient. Still, having both a moon and Mars base would be kickass, it's just that once we go back to the moon they'll probably just hang up the coat and go 'yup, job done' for another 50 years, citing how we can't move further out on some BS cost grounds or something. Going further out and working backwards makes a lunar base easier to stomach for stupid politicians and penpushers to allow

10743574

>>10743246
It's 50/50 whether we go extinct or become star gods. It's up to you to decide what we become.