/sci/ - Science & Math

>Let's be honest about climate change: are we doomed? Is it fixable?
You can't "fix" something that doesn't exist.

>>10711418
haha XD based lol got em savage kek BTFO

*prays no one posts the facts*

>>10711418

>>10711444
no worries, all those 'facts' are just alarmist leftist cuck propaganda from butthurt Hillary supporters

didn't you know?

>>10711569
>facts are bullshit. only my preconceived conclusions are real. NO! YOU ARE THE ONES LIVING IN AN ABSURD FANTASY LAND!!!

>>10710923
>are we doomed?
What's almost certainly doomed is our current method of food production, which is highly specialized to maximize yield based on the exceptionally stable climate we've had for the last 12000 years.

>>10710923
>are we doomed?
Most likely not. However, if you are willing to pay me to say we are doomed then we are doomed.

> Is it fixable?
Yes, entrepreneurs are working on it right now. In fact, many VC funds are crazy on renewable energy and other carbon-related alternatives because there is a lot of money flowing from big-oil families looking to invest in a portfolio of climate-related startups. If you have an idea, you can get funded and start working right now!

>>10710923
>Let's be honest about climate change: are we doomed?

Humans could “trivially” survive while undergoing immense stress. It’d take a lot to actually render us extinct at this point.

>Is it fixable?

With a few centuries of effort, yes.
Good luck getting the international cooperation, though.

>>10711709
>humans don't need a stable climate to grow the food to takes to feel billions

>>10711981
I never said tons of us wouldn’t die, but smaller populations would nevertheless persist.

>>10711489
died from human hunting

if we were doomed why are you not looting and committing crime and shit right now?
this is subpar alarmism paid for by big oil

>>10710923

What is there to fix? Sure a lot of people will die but it isnt like humanity doesnt need a good prunning from time to time.

>>10712035
Not everyone is a literal sociopath like you.

>>10712012
Fair enough. I guess the question boils down to who "we" are. The species as a whole will likely survive. You and I may not.

>>10712035
Because society, it's rules and enforcement mechanisms are still fully functional. Duh.

>>10710923
the industrial revolution was only about 200 years ago. it's not like things are set in stone

>>10710923
It's caused by chemtrails. We're entering grand solar minimum. We just need to stop them from killing all the insects and giving us alzheimers with the aluminum etc they're spraying.

>>10710923
Africa will be the only continent not fucked by it.

>>10712048
I'm not doing those things because nothing is going to happen
>>10712183
nice excuse but society's rules only apply as long as the people follow them.
>>10712468
found the retard.

>>10710923
>are we doomed?
everyone dies eventually

>>10712476
every so often I like to think maybe deniers of AGW are just misinformed and are actually rational people of average intelligence and then I see a post like this

>>10712477
honestly the best case for everyone is if unmitigated warming causes destroys agriculture and humanity stabilizes after 6BN die off

>>10712507
Cooling and ecological collapse are ahead. Insect loss. Bees full of aluminum.

>>10712498
look pal I be pretty happy if we were going through doomsday, but it just is not true. Stop trying to trick depressed people into happiness.
half the population might die that was inevitable we are too big. if the earth snowballs then life will simply just come back to repopulate it.
stop your faggotry sir.
the thing is no body give a fuck about the climate. nothing will change until we're dead. look at how many rich people just don't give an utter fuck and keep making their capital.

>>10712476
>nice excuse but society's rules only apply as long as the people follow them.
No shit. Guess what people are doing now.

>>10712511
>cooling
citation needed

>>10712531
>half the human race might die of starvation
>nah I want to keep my power bill low it's fine
what the fuck is wrong with you?

>>10711444
>>10711569
>I'm so smart I don't need to back up my beliefs. xD Look how sarcastic and intelligent I am!

>>10712565
Grand solar minimum. Chemtrails right now are breaking down the ozone layer, and ultimately trapping enough radiation at night to result in a net heating. This can't balance out the cooling from solar activity forever.

>>10712574
We've already been experiencing a solar minimum the planet has continued to warm. Things are going to start heating up even faster. As for the ozone layer it's recovered quite well after the Montreal protocol. You are somewhat correct about water vapor in contrails trapping heat. It's called the greenhouse effect but the effects from contrails are tiny compared to CO2.

>>10712569
what the fuck is wrong with you?
how are we different? because i'm ok with death but you wan't be preach to the choir will you die?
fuck you asshole, trying to act better than me will you do just about as nothing to help the earth as I do.
It will mostly only be third world fags that get hard fucked anyways.
stop pretending like you give a shit while you remain on 4chan spewing rhetoric that you are some kind of super god because you are "enlightened" while you produce just as much carbon emissions.
at least I live as minimalist and don't waste excessive amounts of money on trivial things. I have had the same phone since my first phone ever, and the same laptop.
I wear clothes from walmart until it falls apart and get new ones.
I know what affects the market does and attempt minimize it, which also saves me money.
no but the little zoomer needs to be hype beast and impress all his black friends.
he for some reason requires more than two pairs of shoes.
stop blaming the normal people dude, you're fucked for that. It is obviously big corporations that are fucking this planet, we've fucked countries over simple commodity, why would they give a shit about the world? because they haven't been. big oil is the one that pays for the alarmism anyways.
I just don't see how i;m the asshole in this scenario.

>>10712583
We're registering UV-C on the surface, so the ozone can't be in as good a shape as official reports suggest.

Solar activity is continuing to decrease and we'd be naturally heading into a cooling period if it were for high altitude aerosol injection.

>>10712602
>the official report is lies
Well I'm glad I can just ignore your retardation

as for the solar minimum even if we reach a grand solar minimum it will barely slow down warming from increased CO2

>>10712590
Not holding elected officials accountable is the worst thing you could possibly do. instead of actually voting for people who will take action you stick your head in the sand and pray the free market will save you. Fuck you and all your useless idiot corporate bootlicker friends who oppose actual measures that will save lives in the future.

>>10712621
hoes mad

how are bad elected officials my fault? you are absurdly delusional. you hate the market but I doubt you live in the mountains in a house you built yourself?
you fucking love the luxury, don't lie to me pussy.
you like your nice clothes and your nice shit, and having the privilege to yell at other people for global problems while not being part of the direct solution. Sorry pal but those scientists doing the work are the real heres, you didn't do shit. but I wonder who pays scientists salaries? and their interments must be made of healthy onions too?
fuck you and your yoga retard. the market is going to save us because they pay the scientists.
and if you want to help fix the culture of waste then try leading by example.

>>10712570
>makes baseless claim
>gets countered with baseless claim
>SOURCES! WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES?!
What's the evolutionary purpose of /pol/ being so stupid?

>>10712631
Individual action is meaningless compared to collective action. You're part of the problem because you and all the stupid fucking people like you let your political party lie to you and convince you that the problem doesn't exist and even if it did there's nothing that can be done so fuck you and fuck all the useless idiots like you for believing such obvious lies.

>>10712645
>individual action are meaningless
>collective actions matter
oh I didn't know a collective wasn't comprised of individuals and that gives you an excuse to be equally as destructive...nice. good luck with your excuse to get laid in college.
>muh hurrdurr im basically saving the world by being hyperbolic but nat actually doing anything personally and leading by example
im sure you'll get all kinds of pussy

>>10712662
Your ignorance of basic concepts like a tragedy of the commons is depressing.

>>10712669
good luck getting laid faggot

>>10712675
Have nothing left to say? how surprising.

>>10712662
>individual action means anything in the face of global industry and billions of people
kek you probably vote too

>>10712680
what is the point in voting?
we live in an oligarchy

Oh look, another ignorant /pol/so making a climate change "coming to terms" thread. Just google it.
>B-but muh gorg sorogs and faek noews and its basically a snowflake genocide
No you are a moron. Any basic article on climate change is enough to answer your questions. Now go back.

>>10712797
CHEMTRAILS ARE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE.

>>10712806
>da jews r sprayin chemicals in the air that make the frogs gay!!!!!!!!
lmao

>>10710923
Yes we are doomed, and that's a good thing.

>>10712806
REMEMBER TO VACCINATE YOUR KIDS

>>10712864
Enjoy your AIDS and your Down Syndrome.

>>10712680
>kek
Back to r/TheDonald faggot.

>>10710923
We've chopped down like half the trees in the last 30 years. If you want to make a difference, first stop all this demand for food and housing, and then plant a fuck ton of trees.
Or find a way to recycle CO2 into oxygen better than mother nature has

>>10710923
>>10712967
Oh yeah, and get China to stop spewing ozone depleting CFCs into the air. We as a planet banned that over 20 years ago

>>10712975
CFCs depletethe ozone layer, COOLING the Earth, yet giving people cancer.
China is evil 100%. And you won't change my mind Mao, stop genociding your civilians for having some bullshit religion. Yeah they're fucking retards but genocide is way worse. And fuck uncles Sam, you are way worse.

>>10712967
>>10712967
>If you want to make a difference, first stop all this demand for food and housing
How? Genocide? Anti-natalism?
You can start by killing yourself or cutting off your balls.
>We've chopped down like half the trees in the last 30 years
That's explains why our economy is getting shittier and shittier, thanks to primitivists and malthusian fucks like you.

>>10712991
China is the testbed and forming megaregion for the Agenda 21 one world government. After they connect the megaregions.

>>10713004
Do you even know anything

>>10713007
Yes

>>10713012
No u don't

>>10713014
yes i do

>>10712967
the latter please.
anyways, why don't you lazy consumer retards just revolt against your corporations?? huh too lazy?
>>10712994
forced sterilzation of anyone with an IQ lower than 150
stop letting the immigrants in and impose universal one child laws, were abortions count as a child and therefore you're fucked if you want to kill your baby.
come on guys we need results not discussion boards.
if we kill off the all the fags, trannies, blacks, and chinese we could cut emissions pretty hard and save the world. it must be done. kill the diseased.

>>10713016
Unironically based

>>10713015
No you don't

>>10710923
>are we doomed?
yes
>is it fixable?
no

we are already living through a mass extinction event caused by our collective activity on the earth. Carbon Dioxide causes the earth to get hotter because its more effective at absorbing heat from the sun. That wouldnt be a huge deal normally because plants would just absorb it. Unfortunately we are cutting down every forest on earth at rates which will leave no major forest on earth within a few hundred years. So yeah, we fucked ourselves. If we killed off the dumbest 95% of humans on earth, and brought online AI machines for manufacturing and all other labor, then we might see stabilization in 2 to 3 thousand years.

but you know, capitalism. So no, it wont happen, not unless it magically becomes more profitable in the short term to do things differently then everything will keep on the same way as they are.

>>10713032
Yes I do.

>>10710923
If you mean Global Warming, just say it. Climate Change is a less precise phrase, because it could mean Global Warming but it could also mean an Ice Age.

>>10713256
Chemtrails.

>>10710923
>Let's be honest about climate change: are we doomed? Is it fixable?

the suns luminosity cycles on an 11 year period, altering it's output intensity over this cycle, and generally speaking over much longer timescales.

Since the sun is the primary source of heat energy to the planet, naturally it is the most relevant and dominant factor on the temperature of the earth/atmosphere "system"

"Climate change" (previously known as "Global Warming"), is a global fiscal scam to attempt to get truely vast sums of tax money from every nation on earth, because the universe isn't static and unchanging.

>>10710923
>are we doomed?
Depends who 'we' are. Humans? No. The top 1% and federal politicians will survive because they have the means. We as in you and me and the rest of us schmucks? Oh hell yeah.

>Is it fixable?
Yes and no. If we all at once decided to conserve energy and use alternatives, it would help. But we'd also need to re-sequester the genie, and that means the answer is "apparently not." For instance, just look at all the deniers responding. Half are trolls thinking this is funny, the other half are genuinely stupid.

>>10713373
The sun is the dominant source of energy in Earth's atmosphere, but variations in solar output between it's minimum and maximum emissions of light energy are a small driver of climate changes on Earth, compared to changes in greenhouse gas concentrations and albedo. Do you really think climatologists forgot to think about the fucking Sun? Denialists are brainlets.

>>10710923
>are we doomed?
probably
>Is it fixable?
For the whole world? No. For one motivated civilization? Yes.

>>10710923
Doesn't look good.
"For atmospheric CO2 concentrations to remain below a "dangerous" level of 450 ppmv (Hansen et al., 2007), model forecasts suggest that there will have to be some combination of an unrealistically rapid rate of energy decarbonization and nearly immediate reductions in global civilization wealth. Effectively, it appears that civilization may be in a double-bind. If civilization does not collapse quickly this century, then CO2 levels will likely end up exceeding 1000 ppmv; but, if CO2 levels rise by this much, then the risk is that civilization will gradually tend towards collapse."
Garrett, T. J.: No way out? The double-bind in seeking global prosperity alongside mitigated climate change, Earth Syst. Dynam., 3, 1-17, https://doi.org/10.5194/esd-3-1-2012, 2012.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqY2NcBWI8

A nice video that should be digestible enough for retards to understand

>>10710923

>Is it fixable
loaded question depending on what you think the problem is
>Can we stop emmitting new CO2
Yes eventually
>Can we stop sea level rise
Not anymore
>Can we avoid the impacts of sea level rise
yes if we spend a lot of money
>Can we stop the globe warming
No
>Can we limit warming
Yes. Minimum bound is 99% chance of 1.5 degrees warming, 95% chance of 2.0 degrees warming if we instantly stop emitting any greenhouse gasses at all
>Can we prevent extreme weather events
No, since we're already locked in for 2 degrees warming
>can we prevent extreme issues with water security
no for the same reason as above
>can we mitigate the impact of extreme weather events
No major city in the world aside from possibly Tokyo will be able to avoid the fact that their storm water systems are not designed for increased storm intensity and frequency
>can we ensure our ability to produce food
not without extensive genetic modification of crops and vast changes in where we grow them
>can we save the oceans
No they're 100% fucked thanks to melting now being inevitable and the huge masses of stored water that are antarctica and greenland being primed to fuck up ocean currents
>doesn't this mean we'll all be fine?
Not if you enjoy getting your wallet raped for decades because morons didn't invest in cheap energy sources so we can solve the water problem with mass desalination

No, we're fucked beyond belief
The core issue is overshoot in a closed system and there's no way to escape that

We're locked in for 2C and given feedback loops 4C to 5C is likely to occur as well.
This issue was locked in 30 years ago and there's no way to stop it, only to prepare for the upcoming crash landing in the 40s or 50s
Human population below 1B by 2100, extinction following that

>human extinction is a bad thing

...

>>10710923

Doomed? No. Not in the immediate future anyway. Like, within the next million or so years, there should still be humans around.

What is questionable though are the living standards.

What most people find hard to grasp is the time involved. Significant changes will play out over thousands of years. Not hundreds. There will also be ups and downs within the general trend of climate change, its not a smooth slope.

For you personally there will be very little change. For your descendants, should you have any, there will just be a gradual worsening of economic conditions, offset to some extent by technological advancements. Standards of living will decrease, social upheavals will get slowly worse, proxy and low intensity wars will increase, more species will go extinct, weather patterns will change. But slowly. Over lifetimes. We have seen it happening now, it will continue like that for hundreds of years. But people will not notice so much until they review their lives in context after 50 years or so. For each generation it will be slightly worse, but on the other hand they will be born into conditions they will take pretty much for granted.

Is it fixable? Nope. To fix it would take the global political will and social cohesion far beyond what we capable of currently achieving. We cant even adequately slow the problem down, let alone reverse it.

Perhaps if the world was entirely inhabited by a homogeneous, highly socially cooperative people, for example the Japanese, who were led by wise and benevolent, selfless politicians, then something could be done.

>>10710923
>Doomed
Yes
>Fixable
Also yes, but nobody is going to do what needs to be done, so no.

>>10713852
Given all these dire predictions, what are you doing to ensure the future of yourself and your family?

>>10710923
>are we doomed?
Depends on what you define by doomed. The economy will be fucked in a lot of places, because of the need to fund massive amounts of antiflood infrastructure for flood control, Netherlands style dykes will become the norm in most coastal regions.
> Is it fixable?
No and its not possible that humanity will even try to attempt it. You would need a totalitarian world government to do that, the horrible implications of which people wouldnt want to tolerate

>>10713840
>ice is bigger than water
>ice melts
>sea level drops
Retarded climate "scientists"

>>10712872
Was waiting for based Land to be posted. Never understand why /sci/ isn't accelerationist

>>10714230
This is satire r-right?

>>10714203
My money is probably on WW3 happening due to climate change. The US will probably become the equivalent of the 4th reich in response to hundreds of millions of displaced refugees attempting to immigrate. Once fascism is in power expansion to seize what farmland remains on the planet will trigger WW3. Which will make WW2 look like a barfight in comparison.

>>10710923
Fixing it is completely plausible, there are a dozen or so possible geo engineering proposals that could work. Here’s the thing, alarmists don’t want to fix the actual problem, they just want more gibs for “research”.

>>10714386
most geoengineering proposals are fucking retarded. either it's increasing albedo through sulfur pollution which has massive problems for health+ acid rain etc and won't actually reduce heat equally throughout the planet. Or it's carbon capture schemes twice as expensive as not emitting it in the first place.

>>10714386
Mitigation is a more effective strategy than geoengineering. Not emitting greenhouse gases due to say a carbon tax is a much more manageable solution than fucking with the atmosphere or oceans in ways that will probably have negative side effects. Denialists want you to think speculative, unproven technology is a more reasonable solution (to a problem they either don't even acknowledge, or downplay the severity of) than obvious ones.

>>10714403
The same science that’s making the predictions is the same science generating the proposed solutions. If the solutions have holes in them then it’s safe to assume the predictions do too.

>>10714431
this logic is fucking retarded.

>>10714431
The science has a solution with no holes. it's stop emitting fucking CO2 you retards. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not completely valid.

>>10710923
>are we doomed?
No, no really. Not all of us, anyway. Just poor people.

>Is it fixable?
Sure.

Now: Is there a possibility that it will be fixed?
Oh boy, of course not

>>10714403
vomit

>>10714403
that's a pretty cool way to shill nuclear

>>10714836
no argument
>>10714839
nuclear is part of the solution but not an excuse to avoid renewables either

>>10714843
I for one sure am glad to have people like you looking out for humanity's best interests. God bless you; you're a true hero.

>>10714403
>Denialists want you to think speculative, unproven technology is a more reasonable solution

This is fucking epic.

>>10714850
>>10714855
>denialtards are this assblasted by being BTFO

>>10714871
an electrical/logistics grid that runs on 100% nuclear / renewable exists nowhere on earth
and therefore is a "speculative, unproven technology"

but you're that same slimy lawyer who goes around claiming that co2 emissions are not related to oil production again, aren't you. so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised by this kind of mental contorsionism

>>10711444
seething

>>10711569
Maybe if /pol/ got deleted all of the reddit-tier out-of-context politics posters would go away

>>10714879
Renewables and nuclear plants are already being used for utility scale electricity production. Geoengineering technologies have not been shown to work even in principle, and may well have dangerous side effects. Nuclear solves the variability issue of renewables by providing baseload power backup. Semantic arguments are the lowest form of discourse. I would tell you to not be such a faggot, but it's pretty impossible for denialtards to be intellectually honest given the lack of facts in support of their position.

>but you're that same slimy lawyer who goes around claiming that co2 emissions are not related to oil production again, aren't you.
never said that
>so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised by this kind of mental contorsionism
you wish

>>10714884
Where's your argument again? The faggot you're defending didn't have one either. Cunt.

>>10714904
Im not defending geoengineering. I think its even more retarded than what you're proposing, which is really saying something.

>>10714909
What's your solution then? Do nothing? The problem doesn't exist? Both positions are hopelessly idiotic.

>>10710923
Climate change is an inevitably but not a disaster

>>10711444
Yes of course, the "facts"

>>10714921
This graph is fake and gay. The MWP, LIA, and HCO are all greatly exaggerated, and the modern warming is truncated or suppressed. Here's the real data.

>>10714917
My solution is to grow the economy, of course.

>>10714921

>>10714923
>Climategate

Literally boomer-tier

>>10714926

>>10714923
Wow, denialists don't understand systematic measurement errors or why the more precise data set would be considered the more authoritative one. The "freedom of information" thing is being understandably annoyed by a legal mechanism that is disruptive and has nothing at all to do with actually doing science.
>>10714926
That's not a solution to global warming at all, but nice try pretending to be reasonable.

>>10710923
>Are we doomed
No but standards of living are going to dip significantly, and billions will die.
>Is it fixable
It's too late to stop, but 1st world countries still have time to prepare for the climate crash.

>>10714932
>not a solution to global warming at all, but nice try pretending to be reasonable
I'm being perfectly reasonable
economic growth is the solution to everything
because
>economies of scale
So sayeth the Good Book of Economics

>>10714937
They won't. Instead, they'll import hundreds of millions of climate refugees before collapsing themselves.

>>10714943
The US military has been prepping for this for over 10 years. It's still possible to weather it, depending on the magnitude of political fucking up that the country engages in, which is already a given factor.

>>10714943
basically there are two ways to deal with the problem for the US and china, either embrace liberalism push hard for global cooperation to reach close to zero net emissions by 2050 and ride out the 2C of warming. Or swing hard right keep emissions at the same or increased levels, and adopt strict border policies, machinegunnning refugees etc while seizing any decent farmland. Both options honestly have pros and cons it's but its impossible to say which will happen.

Let's be honest about climate change, we'll all be long dead before anything serious happens.

It's just social factors why people pretend to care:
>look what a good, selfless person I am caring about future generations rather than the intimidate economic benefit of not caring that much about climate change

I would bet money that there are more psychopaths, on average, in climate change activist groups than the general population.

>>10714983
>lol who cares I'll be dead before it gets awful so I'll continue causing the problem
>not a psychopath
pick one

>>10714983
I actually care about my kids you pathetic sociopathic virgin

>>10714990
I am not the r edditor you are replying to, but let me let you that both you and him are wrong about climate change harming our future generations.
No, it will not harm us.
We can always modify our bodies, turn into cyborgs, maybe live underground, or maybe in shelters in the surface of Earth, our technology and our economy will allow us to survive, so, who cares?
Are you some kind of primitivist or a vegan fag?

>>10714990
>Look what a good, selfless person I am
Ok psycho, I see what you are. I trust my kids to deal with and adapt to any problems they face.

>>10715002
>and that's why I'll rape the environment so that I can buy McDonald's and iPhones
>I hope that teaches you kids to learn to deal with your problems

I think we're looking at it all wrong, lads.

Humans haven't really had an event for awhile that would improve our genes via survival of the fittest.

Climate change and the following food/water shortages is just what we need as a species to improve our genes.

>>10715012
This, why are all the cucks just whining about stopping global warming? Man made or not it will happen with or without humans on the planet, so why not learn to adapt and overcome?

>>10715002
You're the kind of motherfucker who takes out a loan in his kid's name and destroys their credit before their even 18 aren't you?

>>10715015
>>10715012
Glad you deniers can finally admit you're just a death cult worshiping human suffering. Better than pretending it's not a problem I guess.

>>10715026
You're looking at it wrong, future humans will be stronger, healthier, and generally better if we allow events that will improve genes to take place.

It would be human suffering not to let our species improve.

>>10715012
>i believe in survival of the fittest but paying a few dollars a month extra on my power bill would be too hard for me!!! My children can starve though it'll build character.

>>10715033
>I refuse to live by these principles because I'm a coward but I'll doom future generations so I can have a comfortable life. their starvation is for their own good!

>>10715036
>caring about the children of other men
Literal definition of cuckoldry.

>>10715038
Spoken like a true virgin I'm glad natural selection has succeeded and you'll never reproduce.

>>10710923
Poor countries are doomed. Rich countries are doomed if they don’t learn to be selfish again.

>>10715046
>I am with her
fag

>>10715079
Keep seething you failure of evolution

>>10712675
why are you on this board?

>>10713373
Another /pol/ idiot dropping by to drop some bullshit. Let's just ignore this picture
>>10712612, right?