/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10700551
Both Calculus and Statistics (measure-theory based) should be mandatory.

You need calculus to properly appreciate statistics beyond the most basic understanding of data, and that should be taught in early grade schools as part of mathematical literacy

>>10700556
Also this

>>10700551
Calculus, statistics, linear algebra were taught to almost every high schoolers in korea before. I miss those days

>>10700614
t. mad bigoted racist

No one should leave our universities without knowing how little they know.

Calculus is taught in high school

>>10700876
Yes but it shouldn't since it is bigoted agains minorities,

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>>10700600
This. In order to properly understand what you're doing in statistics, at the very minimum you need to be familiar with the concepts taught in calculus II (integration, sequences and series, etc), though familiarity with linear algebra, multivariate and vector calculus is even better. The prerequisite for big boy statistics at my university is probability theory which requires calculus, minus the first part of the course which deals with Bayes Theorem and conditional probability and all that.

As far as the whole minority thing goes, there were a decent number of black and latino students in my calculus I and II courses, though after those I noticed a sharp decline in those groups in later courses. I honestly think that the "deep seated equity problems" stem from personal choice rather than systemic racism.

>>10700551
>poor underrepresented native black latinos
>no mention of asians
hmm

>>10700551
>URM students are underrepresented in calculus classes, so therefore we should teach less calculus

there exists no brainlet wojak image suitable for this level of dumb

fuuuck

f

u

u

u

c

k

here is the check mate: how about, let's not even have high school and teach arbitrary concepts like arithmetic and simple algebra sooner.

>>10700551
Quality of education is sinking every year.
When I look at the abitur of the current year and compare it to the one from 20 years ago it's a joke. Same with uni exams. I have good grades but if I had to take the exams from previous years of the same lecture I'd probably fail this shit without doubt. Everything just became a
>rember this shit equation
>put this in that variable, the other shit is then the other variable
>here is 100 times the same differential equation but with different coefficients
>solve them
>exam will be the same shit
Muh useful
>Why teach the students how to think when you can make them remember facts?
This is exactly why we have so many idiots today.

>>10700600
discrete stats probably has more impact on everyday scenarios than continuous stats does

I liked stats a lot better, does that mean I’m stupid?

>>10700551

UNFUCKING believable.

One of the key complaints against calculus in high school is that minorities are underrepresented?!!

WTF does that have ANYTHING to do with deciding between two subjects (Calculus or Statistics)??!

Deciding where to eat lunch: Chick-fil-a or McDonalds?

NEVER once should the minority representation that eats at either place influence your decision.

If it DOES you are an IDIOT!

>>10700887
that's why we have honors and ap

plus it doesn't really matter blacks don't even go to high school school in america.

>>10701301
I actually disagree. high school is a retarded meme. you have to be some kind of special stupid to have spent more than two years in high school without just skipping straight to uni.
all that shit is available and usually free online.

let the truly smart kids figure it out on their own, it is called problem salving.

>>10704242
I agree, and really it just makes to worse for minorities because the rich white kid will still get better education wether it be at a private school or from independent study. Also there is a big gay meme that "day whites can afford to be smartz"
that is retarded, in HS I loved maths and the class moved so slow, so I just read through the textbooks my myself, no tutors, that is what the fucking textbook is for anyways. there are many examples and even proofs and shit it is great.
this just fucks over poor whites and asians who naturally excel in maths.
my advice to people that like math is this: public education is another industry meme, and so is parts of college, but less so. learn this shit on your own you have a phone or a laptop stop pretending you're oppressed. use your device and find pdfs they are every where and free.
and if you aren't good at science just kill yourslef now

>>10704242
Chick-Fil-A is evil, anti-LGBT, whereas Mac Donalds has pride themed containers. Typical privileged cishet white male

>>10704403
>Chick-Fil-A is evil, anti-LGBT, whereas Mac Donalds has pride themed containers.

I only see:
Chick-fil-a has chicken
McDonalds has hamburgers

To you that makes me a racist, sexist, evil white male

>>10704403
I know someone who eats at Chick-fil-a because of their stance on LGBT. He thinks they're run and staffed by "good christians".

>wasn't taught calculus in highschool

for highschoolers not going to college, statistics is better to give them a vague intuition for more relevant parts of their life
for highschoolers going to college, calculus is a prerequisite in any kind of stats course aimed at understanding and not just memorizing formulas and certain dogmas

>>10700906
please don't anon, that looks gay

>>10700976
>, at the very minimum you need to be familiar with the concepts taught in calculus II
You need to be familiar with integration but you don't need a rigorous understanding of it.

>>10702504
You can't make people smarter. You can only make more people fail.

I wish I was taught proofs in High School like I was supposed to!

>>10700551
Statistics without calculus is normie-tier trash. No point learning it.

kek

>>10705017
Its easy though (1 variable) So why not go all the Way in

>>10700551
Calculus should be taught to middle/junior secondary students. It's so fucking easy I swear a child could understand it if you sugar coated the notation.

You shouldn't even be graduating from highschool without passing Calc AB equivalent. Furthermore anybody who sucks at Calc doesn't belong in STEM period, its not difficult math just a hard filter

>>10702504
>abi is shit now
NRWfag?
Also, what uni?

>>10705252
Bayern, but there are way worse.
Uni? pick anything wich isn't TU.
I know a few teachers pesonally and even have one in my family who has a 2-3 people in his class who would have failed the math abitur with 0 points, but he wouldn't let them. He searches until he finds a point and even if not he has backing from the school director to just let them pass in the after exam thing. Topic german wide abitur: You have to lower the difficulty in some states in order not to obliterate the weaker ones. The difficulty was already lowered by the change from g9 to g8 and the unis complained as a result about the incompetence of the new students. Not everybody needs abitur or a college degree. Kick out the dumb ones. Quality instead of quantity.
At a community college near me they had Math I which was about differentiation, integrals, matrix multiplication and complex numbers and Math II for differential equations for a mechanical/econ engineering degree. Last year they've dropped differential equations completely and moved integrals to Math II.
>engineer
>never seen a diff eq

>>10705315
>Last year they've dropped differential equations completely and moved integrals to Math II.
Yikes

>>10705315
TUBfag here, can confirm everything this anon said. Just go for TU9 and survive the initial filtering semesters and you’re good

I remember reading a few articles about some guy who wanted colleges to drop their “college algebra” courses because they have such a high failure rate. He said they should be replaced with statistics courses.

But how is anyone who can’t pass a high school level class about functions and graphs supposed to get the slightest idea about statistics?
There are also a few “off-the-shelf” programs for colleges who are too lazy to care about math, namely statway and quantway.

Do these people even understand WHY calculus is taught in high school? It isn't because it's "the pinnacle of high school math", and it isn't because it's a useful practical skill.

Calculus is taught in high school because you can't properly understand high school physics without it. That is the only real reason it's there, and the fundamental reason it's a requirement for STEM fields. Without physics, you can do without calculus -- statistics loses something without a calculus background, but plenty still remains for a high school class.

Where I live, high school programs that include physics generally have calculus in them as well, fairly early on, for students need to have a nontrivial feel for calculus before properly understanding most of classical physics. High school programs that do NOT include physics, and in particular those that don't include the STEM subjects in general, do not have calculus in them (except if taken as an elective) and focus much more on statistics, which is the mathematical workhorse of the humanities.

>>10704287
*solving

>>10705229
>implying calculus is the filter for stupidity people
if this was true then we wouldn't have engineers. face it engineers are just the people who failed the true filter.

But calculus is relatively trivial and easy to understand. Hell, I'm a couple weeks into calculus 1 now, doing well, already past the chain rule and beyond. Quotient rule was a joke. Product rule remains my specialty.

I ask my professor his thoughts on quantum mechanics and partial derivatives. He's impressed i know about the subject. We converse after class for some time, sharing mathematical insights; i can keep up. He tells me of great things ahead like series and laplacians. I tell him i already read about series on wikipedia. He is yet again impressed at my enthusiasm. What a joy it is to have your professor visibly brighten when he learns of your talents.

And now I sit here wondering what it must be like to be a brainlet, unable to engage your professor as an intellectual peer.

All of the deep conversations you people must miss out on because you aren't able to overcome the intellectual IQ barrier that stands in the way of your academic success... it's so sad.

My professor and I know each other on first name basis now, but i call him Dr. out of respect.

And yet here you brainlets sit, probably havent even made eye contact with yours out of fear that they will gauge your brainlet IQ levels.

A true shame, but just know it is because i was born special that i am special. I can't help being a genius, nor can my professor.

Two of a kind is two flocks in a bush.

>>10706018
I hope this is pasta

>>10706018
no way this a real post, literally so funny. has to be ironic.
>i can't help being a genius
>quotient rule was a joke
>Product rule remains my specialty.
kek'd

I gotta get a shirt that says that man "quotient rule was a joke"

fuck my sides

>>10706018
>Product rule remains my specialty.

Massive kek

>>10705019

> I am smart

>>10700551
90% of the people I took calc with were also in my ap stats class.

>>10706069
Hope you are settling in here on 4channel dot org, glad to see new faces :)

>>10702504
Have you considered the possibility that your schools have just always been a joke? Maybe you're just taking shit classes? I go to a top school and the really past exams are all laughable compared to current ones. Like imagine how easy it was to be top of the class back then.
Nowadays every exam I take requires plenty of original thought and deep understanding, especially the math ones. Only time that wasn't true was first semester freshman year.

>>10700887
Calculus is taught in Mexican and Brazilian public schools lmao what bullshit is this

Calculus and statistics was offered at my HS in 2010. Not sure what they offer nowadays but most definitely LA and DE could be highschool classes. All math at the undergrad level is rather trivial to be honest though.

>>10700551
I would rather teach philosophy to a rhesus monkey using shock therapy than attempt to teach a group of average high school students calc.

>>10707656
>All math at the undergrad level is rather trivial to be honest though.
The mathematics taught in undergrad are the basic tools used in most kinds of mathematical research. To call it trivial shows your poor synthesis.

Listen I agree with the standard being raised to introduce calculus and all, but in America I cannot see children, where a huge number struggle with Algrbra until the day they graduate Highschool (not because they mastered it, but because they graduated and get to ignore it from now on) being able to learn calculus.

>>10706018
keked

>>10705766
This one?
https://www.kcrw.com/culture/articles/how-algebra-ruined-my-chances-of-getting-a-college-education

>>10709091
Poor guy.

>>10700551
I believe neither should be taught, abstract algebra should be mandatory in high school: students should know how to count the colors in a cube, solve rubix cubes and recognize that lots of the IQ test items are actually greco-latin squares

>>10709003
how is it possible to struggle with elementary algebra?? I just cannot understand that, I never once studied for math in HS and passed with A or A minus, the minus was because there was a writing project, wtf it was math not writing class. There can be no way it takes someone nearly 18 years to learn arithmetic and then arithmetic with equal signs and letter. what absolute retards.
I say make them learn clac during freshman year and the ones that does pass can work as a fucking poor piece of shit and that way we can let smart people dominate.

>>10709091
>shows log laws to attempt to make people think it was hard and too complex
my god what an absolute retard. zero remorse for this faggot.
OH MY FUCKING GOD WHAT
>I passed geometry easily
>im such a retard could do algebra but barley passed pre-alg
LMAO what kind of geometry are they teaching these smoothed brains? Algebra 1 is a prerequisite to geometry then you go to ALG2. Image what they taught him in geometry: length times width is the area of a square, ok class you all have As now. KEK'd hard
>mixing numbers with letter
really nigga??
>i would love to learn about philosophy and literature
clearly this guy is too retarded to use the internet
you know what pleas fucking do make every single kid in the US a fucking retard, so I can teach my kids how to fucking gods among those retard swine. I would love that.
>>10709751
teach them how to learn. that should have been their fucking first task. Teach them methods to problem solve on their own and shit. but no, everything is just scantron memory faggotry

>>10700551
I mean, what's the fucking point of this type of math in the real world? How would it be applicable in any other meaningful besides academically ?

>>10709844
meaningful way*

>>10709844
and what do you do?

I assume you are a professional retard?

>>10709917
What's the difference between you and I?

>>10709924
I don't choose to be retard I just born that way. you intentionally choose to be a subhuman tardzard.

>>10709969
Wrong answer, jesus you sound like a fucking 13 year old.

>>10709091
Unironically correct. The dude's a fucking brainlet for not being able to understand basic Algebra, but he has a point. Why should a humanities major or have to take any math classes?
Likewise why should a STEM major have to take a history class?
It's just wasted time, and wasted money, which is probably why colleges do it. I get making it required for high school, because at that age a lot of people don't know what they're doing with their lives, but requiring it at the college level is fucking stupid.

>>10704442
Fuck, I miss those eggs so fucking much. Millennials don't know what they have missed.

>>10700551
>biased estimator
>SD instead of [math]\sigma[/math]
>no index on the sum

>>10704287
Ha, if only they let anyone skip to university. Spent 8 hours a day, four years....

>>10700551
Calculus is taught in high school.

>>10700551
If you're not absolutely braindead you take Calc I and II (BC) *and* Statistics as AP courses.

>>10710445
only in nice ass schools

>>10705169
I'm saying you don't need it to do basic stats.

>>10706069
>>10706131
>>10706133
once again proving that the average 4chins user has been here for only a couple of months.

>>10706161
I'm not. If there was a way to raise IQ I'd be all over that shit.

I'd settle for getting to slit your throat too. Fucking "muh effort" fags

I was taught calculus, statistics and combinatorics.
The fuck are you doing for 5 years?
Multiplication?

>>10710903
a-and divisions

>>10700551
Brainlets

>>10710069
>believing in jesus
got you now brainlet.
>>10710204
I agree. and I still don't remember shit about the pubic wars.
in no way did it aid me in maths, in fact it hindered my time of self study.
he is a confirmed brainlet for not knowing how to do arithmetic with letters.
if it does somehow aid me in my math career then it will be extremely nominal and easy to personally supplement.
>>10710215
why is our country so retarded we have to ban something so good?
>>10710325
oh...well I did. high school was a farse. I just did a simple trig and college algebra test and placed into college maths, as well as a english examination. I just pressed random things for the english but got a 4.0 in my english 101. This was all in my junior year. Honestly I probably could have done it earlier but my mom didn't think I was emotionally stable enough.
I also knew people who instead just got their GED early and just went to community college and transferred to uni.
>>10710903
they separate the class where you learn fractions and the class where you learn division...kek

>>10700556
>measure-theory based
my sides

>>10705176
>sugar coated notation
Why would you even do that?!

>>10709091
>I would love to learn more about art, philosophy, literature, and history in a college setting.
>But math requirements will prevent that.
He seems to have found an excuse for his failure to study arts and humanities in college.

>there are too many retarded people in the US, it's impossible to put calculus in the curriculum!
Fuck off, I come from what is the worst Latin American country right now. Here people have to see PreCalculus between 10th and 11th grade, and people, as stupid as they may be, manage to pass. I know that there also are countries like Mexico or Spain where Calculus is taught between 11th and 12th grade, and again, people manage to pass (and those that not are the exception, not the rule).
It was astonishing how here in the US people are scared of taking PreCalculus in fucking 12th grade. They just can't with trigonometry, as if it was ridiculously hard. And it's not that they are dumb, because the school also doesn't help telling then that you have to be some kind of genius to take AP Calc. They are made to think of themselves as retards.
In ither countries is also normal to take all sciences in the same year, that is, taking Chemistry, Physics and Bio through all high school, instead of taking rushed courses that only give you a superficial understanding of the subject (unless you take AP of course).

>hey but there is no problem with education, it works!
General ignorance is a fucking plague.

>>10700551
It used to be in France, along with basic group theory and linear algebra. As a matter of fact, it still is in most former French colonies in Africa

>>10706069
>>10706131
>>10706133
It's pasta, but damn good pasta kek.


>>10709091
I struggled with algebra, but that's because I was a lazy fuck. I've made A's in all my upper level math courses at university though, I just needed to quit fucking around and actually study.