/sci/ - Science & Math

The problem is that for people who believe in climate change, the actions of an individual are pretty much irrelevant. The scale is so massive that the only way to make any sort of difference whatsoever is with sweeping regulatory change.

As an analogy, this would be like somebody saying "the lake is drying up!" and replying with "then why don't you use a thimble to carry water over on foot from another like hundreds of miles away? practice what you preach!"
You're asking them to do something that wouldn't actually have any effect on the problem at all even if it's technically helping an insanely tiny amount.

>>10691412
Why do deniers resort to fallacious arguments?

>>10691412
>https://b8f65cb373b1b7b15feb-c70d8ead6ced550b4d987d7c03fcdd1d.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/cms/reports/documents/000/002/327/original/Carbon-Majors-Report-2017.pdf?1499691240
100 corporations are responsible for 70% of global emissions. Sweeping regulatory change to allow a level playing field for companies that choose not to pollute is the only thing that will provide meaningful change.

>>10691412

>>10691412
>changing individual behavior will do anything in the face of global industry
Probably cause they're not blithering retards like you OP

>>10691412
Because even if everyone in my state took half as many showers it we would still save less water than the average almond farm uses in the same time period.

>>10691556
>https://b8f65cb373b1b7b15feb-c70d8ead6ced550b4d987d7c03fcdd1d.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/cms/reports/documents/000/002/327/original/Carbon-Majors-Report-2017.pdf?1499691240
From the intro:
>They have reaffirmed what we already know: the transition is already underway and is irreversible.
If this is true we might as well give up.

>>10691435
It’s more like, “the lake is drying up” and responding with “stop emptying it out in buckets for no reason? you only need a thimbles amount of water”
Moreover you can affect businesses’ greenhouse emissions by not buying products especially food that isn’t made locally.

>>10691412
>Confusing climate with seasons
And these prople are allowed to reproduce (not the younger generation of course :p) and vote

>>10691412
Because that would require effort. Ignoring the validity of the beliefs from each side, "believing" that climate change is real is the effortless choice (assuming you have no knowledge of statistics and science). Just believing the scientists without question is the path of least resistance and requires no mental or personal fortitude. It thus makes sense that laymen who believe in climate change are also lazy and stupid, and lazy and stupid is precisely what leads them to fuck up the environment even despite their "belief".

It truly is a shame. My personal favorite are celebrities who preach about climate change but have private jets and, by extension, their fans.

>>10692626
Fail and redditpilled

>>10691412
Self-repoty """studies""" are not science.

>>10691556
>https://b8f65cb373b1b7b15feb-c70d8ead6ced550b4d987d7c03fcdd1d.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/cms/reports/documents/000/002/327/original/Carbon-Majors-Report-2017.pdf?1499691240
What a link..

>>10691556
People buy their products. If they didnt buy them, those companies wouldnt pollute so much.

>>10693004
People are also dumbasses who can't think beyond themselves and/or deny climate change entirely due to propaganda such as what's posted by OP.

>>10693004
Most pollution comes from power generation. People need power, and in virtually have no say in how that power is generated, and no not using power isn't an option. Agriculture is close to being the second largest source of CO2, being a vegan is not an option for most people, and even if it was you have no control over farming practices, organic options tend to produce more greenhouse gasses not left. How about international shipping? The only way to cut this out is to buy only domestically manufactured products. Most domestic option are significantly more expensive, (a pair of red wings is 300+ compared to your 100$ Nikes) so not an option for anyone struggling financially which is the majority of the US. How about personally owned vehicles? Switching to an EV or hybrid could cut your emissions, but most people can't afford to spend 35k on helping the environment so that isn't an option either. To sum it all up not buying products from polluting companies isn't an option for anyone but the extremely well off, who are a tiny market compared to the people who are just trying to survive and can't afford to buy expensive green options.

>>10691412
Yeah, as if "individual-level actions" did jack shit. The big industries are the main polluting agents and thus they are the ones who should be pushed to take action, by force if necessary. Sage for shilling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLqXkYrdmjY

>>10693118
And the industries make money from providing something to people. How is /sci/ this retarded? Don't you understand that slowing down carbon emmission significantly is retarded since it means less crops, less economic production and less economic freedom which could lead to a recession.

This whole discussion is retarded as fuck because 1) either the problem is solved on its own by finding more efficient/renewable energy sources (possible but hard to speed up) 2) plant more trees and keep emissions as is

Every other "solution" (in quotes because you need a problem in the first place) is retarded

>>10691412
Why do denialists hate the truth?

>>10693073
>tfw no nuclear and solar future with vertical farming

>>10692651
The truth is the truth and there is only one. Your criticism of how individuals choose beliefs is irrelevant to whether or not a physical process is occurring. It is occurring, and a tremendous amount of evidence from the natural sciences shows that this is the case. Why do denialists refuse to accept accurate descriptions of reality?

>>10693073
>People need power
Not really.

interesting..

yeah if i shave 5% off my annual five tons of carbon emissions that really makes a dent next to what could be achieved if government regulations forced my power company to phase out fossil fuels in favor of nuclear and renewables, good point OP

>>10691412
I CAN PREDICT THE WEATHER AND FUTURE!!! I AM SCIENCE MAN!!!

>>10695865
If you had become a scientist, you would be saying the same shit they're saying. Dumb. Ass.

>>10695870
i am a scientist and understand how greenhouse gases work and how it affects the warmth of the planet. they don't cover it properly and it's nothing more than a tax scam.

>>10695893
Jew studies at the university of /pol/ isn't science.

>>10695893
How is it not covered properly?

>>10691435
>>10691556
>it makes no sense for me to not be hypocritical, because I can just complain about what someone else does instead of doing the right thing myself

>>10696872
Your argument from emotion has no basis in reality. We need to fix the problem not virtue signal.

>>10691412
Humans act in ways inconsistent with their beliefs, news at 11.

If even 150 million climatefags in the US/Europe took their shit seriously, downsized their houses as much as possible, bought personal solar/wind generators, drove EV's, and seriously cut down on their purchases and only bought what was necessary, sourced from vetted eco conscious producers, they could collectively cut down on a MASSIVE amount of emissions themselves.

But that would require not being hypocritical, scum, principle-bereft faggots who are more interested in keeping up with trends and virtue signalling than enacting fundamental change.

>>10696892
If everyone lived sustainably with climate in mind there would be no issues. If everyone was a dumbfuck like you and thinks the way forward is to whine about megacorps, nothing would change. Even if you could coerce the megacorps to behave by mass complaining, they would just find a different way to fleece you, because you are stupid.

>>10696929
This is a good idea actually, I support legislation to legally require everyone to live sustainably.

>>10696920
Or you could introduce a carbon tax and have several thousand times the impact. Big oil can't have that though.

>>10696931
>the solution is me telling the government to tell other people what to do, and then make sure the policy is good and enforced
Sounds like a great idea. You know what would be more effective? People actually behaving in a way in line with what they claim to hold important, then you wouldn't need to make laws.

>>10696932

No it wouldn't, retard. A fucking "carbon tax". Jesus Christ. That's right, asking the emissions fairy in the sky to take care of it so you don't have to wield any personal responsibility or reconcile your behavior with your half-baked useful idiot beliefs. It's like you can't even tell the same old statist authoritarians are trying to co-opt this issue to grow their power thanks to brainlet, hysterical, lazy voters.

>>10696938
That will never happen so laws it is.

>>10691412
can you please get the fuck off this board

>>10696942
Ah personal attacks the last resort of one with no argument.

>>10696938
>if people would just not do crimes we wouldn't need the police!!!!
>If countries could just be nice we wouldn't need armys!!!!!
>if people could just share we wouldn't need money!!!!!
Are you eight?

>>10696954

It's a personal attack because it's the truth. If even half of the climate alarmists in the West adopted austere and resource conscious lifestyles that required some degree of personal sacrifice it wouldn't be a discussion. We would literally be chopping 50% of emissions off the board immediately. It would cause massive, structural changes in the economy by nature of demand that would exacerbate this effect. Businesses across the board would rush to accommodate this new paradigm.

But no, because it's a rabble of women, minorities, 19 year old kids, and leftist academics in ivory towers leading this "movement." The last people you could ever expect to hold any natural degree of personal responsibility, accountability, or notions of sacrifice.

>>10696963
>>10693073

>>10696920
>I deny facts and pollute indiscriminately because some other people are hypocrites
yikes

>>10696942
>A fucking "carbon tax". Jesus Christ. That's right, asking the emissions fairy in the sky to take care of it so you don't have to wield any personal responsibility or reconcile your behavior with your half-baked useful idiot beliefs.
Denialtards think this is a convincing and not at all irrelevant nor hyperbolic argument against an emissions tax.

>>10696989
Even worse than that, its
>absolutely nothing should be done about the 100 corporations responsible for 70% of global emissions because my liberal neighbor drives a car and hasn't spent 30k on solar panels.
literally nothing but a corporate bootlicker.

>>10696938
>he doesn't know about free riders or collective action problems

>>10696998
They don't have an argument so what did you think they would resort to?

>>10697002
>>he doesn't know about free riders or collective action problems
I'm not a "he".

>>10697027
no one cares about your fucking pronouns you wanker

>>10697027
Then post your tits

>>10696998

Children think complicated macroeconomic forces can be controlled by blanket taxes and won't cause tangential consequences like simplistic government interventionism always ends up doing.

carbon taxes will always be unethical and immoral since taxation is theft

>>10697048
It's been done before, in multiple countries in virtually all cases it actually caused economic growth and significant decreases in emissions.

>>10697050
shouldn't you be studying for AP english?

>>10696998
You should literally end yourself right now if you think a carbon tax will do anything positive.
The only way to save the environment without crashing human civilization is funding nuclear energy subsidies and mass reactor construction paid for by externality suits on polluters.
A carbon tax is missing the forest for the trees kinda shit

>>10697053

You have no idea what you're saying. Nothing that you are saying has any bearing in reality. I hope you don't actually think the data being released by India and China is real and that burgeoning, massive, industrializing economies are ACTUALLY chopping their economic upside down to accommodate the passing fancies of Western liberals.

>hurr durr if we directly interfere with economic growth it will actually lead to economic growth

>>10696938
looks like we need more stupid bullshit like this to argue over, meanwhile we are speeding out of control foot full on the accelerator.
what you're asking is so unrealistic and wouldn't even make that significant of an impact, anyways
you want the *REAL* solution? end capitalism.

>>10697058
It has look it up.

>>10697048
>>10697057
Carbon tax is a completely sensible measure to reduce fossil fuel consumption. It would work as intended and have minimal economic impacts relative to other available options. "Do nothing until it gets really bad" is a bad long-term strategy that will cause an even greater recession in the future when negative consequences of ignoring the problem arrive. Of course, denialtards either refuse to acknowledge that's what's going to happen, or outright admit apathy toward the problem because "I'll be dead by then."
>nuclear
Yeah, we should build more nuclear to replace coal, oil, and LNG.

>>10697063
anon they do think "do nothing until it gets bad" is a viable strategy because they (the denialists) don't even believe it's happening

>>10697060

You provide proof that a carbon tax has ever caused "economic growth."

>>10697063

No it wouldn't. It's a juvenile, overly simplistic way to approach a very complicated issue. It would make companies move their production to countries that don't give a shit and continue to pump carbon out. The issue is that the consumer doesn't care and demands what it demands. Now your country has lost a ton of economic potential, for nothing.

You actually think something as complicated as an economy can be shifted around like play dough with heavy handed bullshit like a blanket carbon tax? That's it, just tax the bad thing, problem solved.

>>10697072
>taxes are juvenile and overly simplistic
But "this science I don't like isn't real even though there's a mountain of evidence, so pollution should continue" is a reasonable position, got it. More countries need to get more serious about committing to solving the problem and using sanctions on countries that don't comply. Denialism is putting your head in the sand and obstructing progress on the issue at the same time. Bad consequences will arrive in the long term, and they will be worse the longer action is stalled by do-nothings with imaginary economics degrees.

>>10697081

I already mentioned earlier. Be the change you want to see if you're so passionate and committed to it. It actually isn't that hard.

>>10697085
I already am. We still need a carbon tax and strong commitment to decarbonization over the next few decades.

>>10697072
Easily solved with tarrifs

>>10697088

"We"? Who is that. India/China etc. aren't listening. This is where manufacturing has been moving.

>>10697085
Yes, expecting hundreds of millions to suddenly undergo a radical lifestyle change is a better solution than carbon tax because economy = complicated

>>10697094
Every industrialized country does their part, or gets sanctioned by the rest. There are few options that would be as effective as that.

>>10697072
BC
>Following implementation many Canadians concluded that the carbon tax generally benefitted the British Columbian economy, in large part because its revenue neutral feature did indeed reduce personal income taxes.[173]
Switzerland
>As part of the early-redistribution program decided by the Swiss Federal Council in 2009, the tax revenue from 2008, 2009, and 2010, are being distributed in 2010.[145] In 2008 alone, the tax of CHF 12 per tonne of CO2 raised around CHF 220 million (US$209 million) in revenue.[146] As of June 16, 2010, a total of around CHF 360 million (US$342 million) have become available for distribution to the Swiss population and economy.[146][150] It is estimated that in 2010, at the highest tax rate of CHF 36 per tonne of CO2, the revenue from the tax will be about CHF 630 million (US$598 million).[146] Out of the projected CHF 630 million, CHF 200 million (US$190 million) will be allocated for the building program and the remaining CHF 430 million (US$409 million) will be redistributed in 2010 to the population and the economy.[145][146] The International Energy Agency (IEA) commends Switzerland's CO2 tax for its excellent design and notes that the recycling of the tax revenues to all citizens and enterprises is "sound fiscal practice".[144]


>https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/pdf/10.1142/S201000781840002X
Further reading for you.

>>10697095

It is better because it is organic. And cultures can change, happens all the time.

This isn’t a science or math topic.

>>10697117

None of this says anything about improving economic growth. "Many canadians concluded it generally benefitted the BC economy"... cool.

>>10697127
>https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-insidious-truth-about-bcs-carbon-tax-it-works/article19512237/
>The result is that taxpayers are coming out ahead. B.C. now has the lowest personal income tax rate in Canada (with additional cuts benefiting low-income and rural residents) and one of the lowest corporate rates in North America. You shouldn't need an economist and a mining entrepreneur to tell you that's good for business and jobs.
>Further, while some had predicted that the tax shift would hurt the province's economy, in fact, B.C.'s GDP has slightly outperformed the rest of Canada's since 2008.
stay in denial

>>10691412
They also require your sources to be certified climatologists who never took a dime from any industry ever. But will accept there is a “consensus” based on the research of a college dropout who makes political cartoons and runs an alarmist website.

>>10696998
You know what will put an end to “global warming”? Start promoting a “solution” that involves smaller government and lower taxes. Watch how fast the biggest promoters jump off the train. Even if you could prove it would hold climate in a state of perfection for eternity, the alarmists would bail in favor of some other bullshit to promote more government.

>>10697193
Sounds like a plan I'll await your proposal.

>>10697193
>You know what will put an end to “global warming”?
decarbonization of energy sources
>Start promoting a “solution” that involves smaller government and lower taxes.
In this case, I don't think moving more towards a more libertarian system is going to help with decarbonization. In fact, it would be the opposite. We could do that for other aspects of government, but that's irrelevant to the global warming problem. Regulation and new laws are required to address emissions.

The rest of your post is just worthless projection and disparaging of your opponents instead of any substantive argument.

>>10697206
There is a country that has reduced their CO2 output while all the back slapping Paris accord signing virtue signaling asshats were flying their private jets to Switzerland.

>>10697216
Shipping all your industry overseas to avoid paying workers has that effect.

>>10697216
>actually bragging about having some of the highest per capita emissions on the globe
anon...

>>10697221
Well once you turn countries into socialist hell holes then 1st world problems like “cow farts” and 2% contributions to a .04% trace gas will magically cease to be an issue. Ask Venezuelans how much they care about their carbon footprint. They’ve eaten every animal in their zoos by now.

>>10697232
You have to go back
≥>>/pol/

>>10697232
>0.04% trace gas
someone doesn't understand how the greenhouse effect works

>>10691412
Because the mainstream alarmists are in it for the money.
Apparently al gore loves his mansions.

>>10691677
Your climates have never once been set in stone. We should expect warming and cooling in places over time and anomalies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

>>10695865
>what are ice cores and changes over hundreds to thousands of years.

>>10697262
>hurr durr I'm retarded
lmaoing @ your life
>>10697265
woops, looks like the MWP and LIA didn't disprove AGW after all

>>10697269
>inb4 the Jews have tampered with all international climate data past and present to sell solar panels

>>10697272
In b4 solar panels actually cause global warming because of their low albedo.

>>10697269
Pity I made both of those posts anon.
And I don't disagree with human influence on climate.

Just look at fucking beijing in a bad smog week. Our world is like a fish tank.
What I disagree with is faggots promoting bullshit for ulterior objectives, namely money. Climate change skeptics are not the only ones in that boat. And elites are promoting garbage as a solution for the problem because it benefits their pockets.

>>10697304
Only denialtards bring up the MWP and LIA as though they matter in the context of AGW. They don't. Promoting ignorance and opposition to policy addressing AGW helps some elites just as much as selling more solar panels and wind turbines helps other elites. The problem still has to be solved, starting now and continuing for decades, until deep decarbonization cuts are achieved.

>>10697324
>Only denialtards bring up the MWP and LIA as though they matter in the context of AGW.
I'm saying that climate change is more likely to be impacted by solar and global long term systems. We may be in a weird solar phase.

>>10697337

>>10697337
>global long term systems
oh you mean like this?

>>10697235
bet he ate lead paint too

>>10697344
There are many ways to measure the suns impact anon. Irradiance is just one way.

>>10697348
Oh I can't wait to hear the explanation of this one

>>10697345
So our climate is merely "changing" as we do more accurate and numerous recording of these aspects?

>>10697350
I forgot another issue. As we recorded these things over time, more and more of the recordings took place in warmer locations. Remember the impact of western expansion.

>>10697356
pic related is ocean based
why can't you just admit you have no idea what you're talking about?

>>10697356
>>10697365
GISS

>>10697356
And? Thermometers would give a higher reading as it warms up. That doesn't represent a systematic bias of the measurement set without some justification that this bias is real.

>>10697368

>>10697351
yes if you close your eyes and ignore the problem nothing can hurt you

>>10697365
>pic related is ocean based
That makes no sense though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Ni%C3%B1o

Where are the fluctuations?

>>10697369
There are hard to ignore anomalies in the data though. The bias is not just in one direction clearly.

>>10697382
I don't think you understand how averages work

>>10697382
That's mainly just a map of monitoring stations ya goof

>>10697386
Well is that pic an average over time?
I'm assuming it has to be, otherwise it would be constantly going up and down.
It says ice core data though and that has me worried that it's actually not over time.
And high CO2 does =/= temperature change. If memory serves correct, the permian period had high CO2. Permian atmosphere was around 3 times pre-industrial level over it's duration and 2 degrees warmer, but is know for having massive snap polar periods. All that suggests is global temperature VOLATILITY, not warming or cooling.

>>10697388
It shouldn't matter, it just sparked the idea of water temperature as a factor. Then I remembered el nino and suddenly I felt there was a big factor being ignored in climate data.

>>10697398
Parts of it are. Mostly it's to demonstrate where the sensors are

>>10697402
>Then I remembered el nino and suddenly I felt there was a big factor being ignored in climate data.
That's called desperation

>>10697235
Earth doesn’t act like a perfect greenhouse and CO2 has lagged temperature through all of history. When alarmists had to confront that fact, they decided “oh, but this time is different because humans”. Your hypothesis is thus based on one data point. And it’s entirely possible that this time is not different.

>>10697748
>And it’s entirely possible that this time is not different.
If it is possible it isn't different then why are we noticing a substantial measurable difference.

>>10697748
CO2 only lags temperature at the poles as it's not the initial driver of a deglaciation. For the rest of the planet CO2 leads temperature.

>>10693826
yeah its not like billions of people make the money they need to survive in modern times from the electricity from that power generation... oh wait.
fucking retard.

>>10691412
The real question is why sacrifice all this shit just so the Chinese and Indians and shit out more people and kill the planet anyway?

>>10691412
Well OP, .. The most dangerous ideology is your own, because people might expect you to do what you say.

>>10691412
Because it would be irrational for them to do it from a purely game theoretical mathematical perspective. This is just another case of The Tragedy of the Commons.

>>10697088
Fuck your taxes

>>10697874
If the western world adopts a carbon tax/ cap and trade system then China and India can be sanctioned/ subjected to tariffs at similar levels. Most of China's pollution is from producing goods for the west.

>>10693073
>being a vegan is not an option for most people
Except it is? Meat is just a convenience.

>>10698416
cutting meat dairy etc out of your diet and still hitting your required macros is both expensive and time consuming. Not viable for most but the upper classes.

>>10698421
You don't need to cut them entirely if that's an impossibility though, even reducing them would help.

carbon taxes are pointless unless there's corresponding price control to prevent companies form directly passing the cost on to the consumers

>>10698485
This is only an issue in markets with no competition. Which admittedly is more of the US than anyone wants to admit.

>>10697748
>Earth doesn’t act like a perfect greenhouse
Haha holy shit, you 100% confirmed don't understand the greenhouse effect.
>and CO2 has lagged temperature through all of history. When alarmists had to confront that fact, they decided “oh, but this time is different because humans”
The reason why it is different this time is because of the very fast rate of global mean temperature change, and because we have direct lines of evidence like [math]\delta[/math]C-14 of atmospheric carbon decreasing because fossil fuel hydrocarbons contain almost no C-14 (that's only one of the lines of evidence). Look, it's one thing to disagree about policy of how to address the problem, but it's a whole other tier of stupid to deny the bare facts because you don't like the implications and are woefully ignorant of how science and physics work. Calling people "alarmists" because you don't understand facts is pathetic.
>it's possible this time it's not different
Inductive reasoning is never certain, but there's a lot of evidence showing that AGW is happening and that it is abnormal compared to natural variations in climate.

>>10698506
But the earth actually doesn't act like a perfect greenhouse. And there is no linear effect between CO2 and temperature even in a perfect greenhouse. The human contribution of CO2 is 2-4% of the total. The total is 0.04% of the atmosphere. And we are supposed to believe this will result in runaway AGW because some college dropout from Brisbane claims only 3% of the worlds scientists explicitly state that humans don't contribute to the climate according to a keyword search. Thus 97% are of the "consensus" that humans contribute 'something'. Thus everyone agrees that all hell is breaking loose unless we bring about the socialist utopia that's promised throughout but never delivered in history.

>>10698483
I think his point was that it's just feel good bullshit unley you're doing it for moral reasons.
Just not having seven kids reduces "your" consumption drastically over a lifetime. Tbh if overconsumption, the environment and climate are serious civilization threatening events then the single best piece of legislation would target population growth.
And without international cooperation (literally NWO tier) nothing can be done about that.

>>10698628
>But the earth actually doesn't act like a perfect greenhouse. And there is no linear effect between CO2 and temperature even in a perfect greenhouse.
It's not linear but it's a very strong relationship.
>The human contribution of CO2 is 2-4% of the total.
Wrong you clearly don't understand carbon flux.
>re even in a perfect greenhouse. The human contribution of CO2 is 2-4% of the total. The total is 0.04% of the atmosphere. And we are supposed to believe this will result in runaway AGW
Oh it can't have an effect because you feel like it's small huh? How scientific. How about I give you some water with .04% arsenic.

>>10691412
So called "alarmists" have given up at this point, and think we're in for shit either way. I know a few climate people who have started prepping, buying guns, food and water.

>>10698701
> buying guns, food and water
Kek that's absurd and useless. What you need is to learn to produce your own food in a climate controlled greenhouse that nobody else knows about. Anything less isn't appropriate prepping for this scenario.

>>10698628
>The human contribution of CO2 is 2-4% of the total.
The anthropogenic contribution of CO2 has resulted in a 50% increase in CO2 levels since the industrial revolution. That's before you get to the significant GHGs that aren't CO2, particularly methane, nitrates, and fluorinated gases.
>The total is 0.04% of the atmosphere.
The percentage of the total composition doesn't matter. The energy absorption cross-section in the surface re-emission spectrum is what matters. This radiation is mostly infrared, and GHGs in Earth's atmosphere are accordingly gases that strongly absorb IR radiation. The impact on the energy budget of the atmosphere is what matters for temperature changes, and as it turns out, "trace gases" can still have a considerable impact, to the tune of multiple degrees C.
>And we are supposed to believe this will result in runaway AGW
No one said it's runaway. It's only runaway if the problem is completely ignored and economic activity continues to expand without regard to GHG emissions, which isn't what's happening.
>consensus
What exact percentage of experts agree is irrelevant as long as it's a "strong majority," which it is. The threat posed by unchecked warming is massive and irreversible, so it's an appropriate and rational response to be gravely concerned about the issue, although strictly speaking, that concern is not part of the science itself.
>socialist utopia
Decarbonization is the only solution that will work to address AGW. How that comes about is a separate question, and doesn't require any "socialism."

>>10697089
Which is a tax you massive dunderhead. Wonder how companies will ever recuperate the losses of such, maybe pass it off to the consumer perhaps?

>>10696932
>>10696998
>>10697063
>instituting a tax on a needed product will ensure it's used less in order to solve an unsolvable problem

Nice psychosis, instituting a tax on petroleum products will literally only hurt poor people while the rich offset the costs of the taxes upon the consumer. Take it from someone who pays the electric bill in one of these insane green energy states. 15 percent of our energy has to come from "renewable resources" and as a result I pay 30 percent more.

>No price is high enough

For what? Your disguised wealth redistribution? Does my money go to massive ionic air filters that clean the air in order to combat the problem? No, it goes to retards who continue making speeches that have no basis in reality and stirring up hysterical lunatics such as yourself.

>>10698871
Even a tripling of utility bills for 100% renewables isn't the end of the world. It's a much preferable trade-off to 5C warming.
>No, it goes to retards who continue making speeches that have no basis in reality and stirring up hysterical lunatics such as yourself.
but global warming is a fact, sorry anon

>>10698729
>It's only runaway if the problem is completely ignored and economic activity continues to expand without regard to GHG emissions, which isn't what's happening.
It sure feels like that's happening

>>10693073
If the average person can't afford it, then how can the average company which serves the average person?
Selling products at a loss until they go bankrupt in the name of your climate cult?

>>10698904
Are you retarded or just bad at math?

>>10698904
The problem is it's a race to the bottom, if you don't use the cheapest possible solutions in power generation your competitor will, and they'll undercut you and you'll go bankrupt. So everyone pollutes as much as possible. If there are actual regulations and financial penalties to pollution for everyone suddenly not polluting becomes a viable strategy, sure you might have slightly lower profit margins, you might also have to raise your prices marginally, but its a whole lot better than the alternative. Most carbon tax revenue goes directly back to the taxpayer through lowered income tax or rebates which helps offset the increased cost of power or other services.

>>10698882
>Even a tripling of utility bills for 100% renewables isn't the end of the world. It's a much preferable trade-off to 5C warming.

I've got news for you. The day I pay $1200 for an electric bill is the day I pack my shit and move to the woods where I will burn more coal and wood and create more C02 than I ever would have being supplied by such a grid.


>but global warming is a fact, sorry anon

You are very sorry, a very sorry person for ever believing what the group think told you to without any empirical evidence. I hear they're now saying you should jump off bridges and taking long walks off short pier.

>b-but there is evidence, muh carbon!

No, see there's this thing called a "hypothesis" and a "control" and you have neither of those things. All you have are theories based on false premises and an impressionable hysterical population and that isn't math or science, in fact it's secularized metaphysics (religion) which is anti-science.
You are an anti-scientific mental midget passing yourself off as scientific simply because you have the charismatic idea of "saving the planet", which of course sounds well and good to the average moron normie. Normies and retards love charisma, It's literally all they know because they're too dumb to actually think for themselves. That's why you use people like Bill Nye (who isn't a climate scientist) to help sell off your insane asinine bullshit. I am not "Gaston" and this isn't "Beauty and the Beast", make a actual argument or on your way bub.

I support global warming because I want all of you to die.

>>10691412
>psychology
>n=600
This isn't /sci/ related.

Even if this were credible, I suspect it's a product of confounding variables, like the "highly concerned" group having higher incomes and jobs that required more travel. The biggest individual-level action is probably avoiding air travel, which is much more difficult if you are a professor or a consultant.

>>10698882
>Even a tripling of utility bills for 100% renewables isn't the end of the world.
Go fuck yourself.

>>10691412
Test

>>10698943
>He has a $400 electric bill
You use too much electricity and fuck your feefees, snowflake

>>10698943
Oh great the control earth 3rd graders are here.

>>10698925
>slightly lower profit margins, you might also have to raise your prices marginally
I love how you just completely dismiss issues that causes businesses to close, as trivial concerns.

>>10698943
Have you tried using less electricity you colossal retard? At 400 a month you should probably look into buying solar panels, with such ridiculous consumption you'd probably be looking at around 3 years to break even.

>>10698976
If the competition has to do it as well it is trivial after all it's not like people can just stop using electricity.

>>10698971
Fuck your hot earth faggot.
Enjoy death.

>>10698973
>Oh great the control earth 3rd graders are here.

How else are you going to manage the insane shit that greenies come up with? The means to do so would literally mean regulating all the energy used on the planet so yeah, that is basically control of the earth.

>No we're not controlling earth by controlling the means to do absolutely everything useful on it and making people pay for it at the same time.
Oh okay. Rephrase it some other way then. Tell me how you plan on solving the problem.

>Well uh we just need your money to reduce your carbon emissions
This makes sense to the average knuckle-dragging ninny for some reason.

>>10698971
>You use too much electricity

And you would think that the fucking company selling it to me wouldn't have a problem with it right? More power=more money for them right? Imagine opening a business and then telling your customers not to use your product. I would only do that if some big entity paid me to compensate for the losses. I wonder if the power companies do something similar with the government perhaps?
Second, what fuckign business is it of yours to tell me "i use too much power"? Did you even bother to think of what I use it for or did you just assume that I'm powering 20 hot tubs for no reason? That's okay, I'm used to greenies assuming things.

>>10698987
Yeah they can, it happens all the time is warzones.
If people can't afford electricity, and the only power generation methods are unreliable, people will stop using electricity.

>>10698982
>Have you tried using less electricity you colossal retard? At 400 a month you should probably look into buying solar panels, with such ridiculous consumption you'd probably be looking at around 3 years to break even.

That's the worst bill I get in the winter month, summer is okay. Also yeah it is very stupid to pay $400, thank the green energy lunatics that enforced the state of connecticunt to supply the "15 percent renewable resources". Wasn't that much before they made that stupid law.

Also I'm glad you mentioned solar panels. No, it would still take 20 years to break even and unaffordable without subsidies.

>>10699001
>Second, what fuckign business is it of yours to tell me "i use too much power"?
Your excessive consumption is threatening my quality of life. Again, fuck your feefees, snowflake. When your betters say that you're causing a problem you would do well to listen

>>10699012
sounds like you got a terrible quote, I pay 12.02 cents per kilowatt hour and my breakeven time was about 7 years three years ago.

>>10698889
>It sure feels like that's happening
Well, every year, we reach new records for GHG emissions. We're going straight down the very worst care scenario, despite all the "human ingenuity can solve anything!" marketing bullshit.

>>10699022
well you are responsible for your own safety, not me. Snowflake. Here's a tip for you; if you want to feel safe, calm and happy then go to your local doctor and ask for a lobotomy.

>When your betters say that you're causing a problem you would do well to listen
>Appeal to authority the post

Loling at your psychosis

>>10699024
>sounds like you got a terrible government
FTFY. Between 3 different providers this is the best one. Every 6 months I have to balance my fucking power provider like it's a fucking stock portfolio.

>>10691556
>https://b8f65cb373b1b7b15feb-c70d8ead6ced550b4d987d7c03fcdd1d.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/cms/reports/documents/000/002/327/original/Carbon-Majors-Report-2017.pdf?1499691240

>>10698943
This is the perfect example of someone who things he's intelligent but just comes off as a total retard.

>>10699044
>"My energy consumption is your problem to solve"
Science denial at it's finest.

>>10698965
>I'll just pollute and help destroy the planet's habitability forever
go fuck yourself

>>10699004
I'm sure a 30% increase in electricity will cause this.

>>10699022
>Your excessive consumption is threatening my quality of life
Now that's irony.
The climate nut that wants to diminish everyone's quality of life is complaining that someone not toeing the AGW line is threatening his quality of life.

>>10699070
Preventing AGW is all about preventing massive declines in quality of life around the planet you fucking retard, but someone who's had instant gratification his entire life couldn't understand this simple concept I guess.

>>10699061
You bet your ass faggot.
I would rather die than eat bugs in your totalitarian climate hell.

>>10699079
>Preventing AGW is all about preventing massive declines in quality of life around the planet
Yeah, by forcing people to accept massive declines in their quality of life....

Pardon me for not giving a fuck, if it all works out the same in the end.

>>10699085
Paying +30% on your power bill is a whole lot better than paying +1000% on food later because global crops are failing. Not to mention everyone who's not so well off that will just starve.

>>10699066
If you don't think a 30% increase in energy costs across all stages of human life and commerce is a huge fucking deal, then you're a huge fucking idiot.

>>10699088
Not to me it isn't.
I'd rather die than submit to your bullshit social engineering scheme.

>>10699058
I am literally arguing the exact opposite. Get your eyes checked m8.

>>10699092
you sound like a very rational person.

>>10699089
Better than the alternative, and renewables are only getting cheaper

>>10699101
>Thinks climate change is a conspiracy
>Thinks other people are responsible for the problems you create
>Whines about his feefees
You have to go back
>>>/pol/

>>10699111
>Thinks climate change is a conspiracy

Conspiracy? No it's literally a theory based on a false premise and no control. It's not even worthy of being called a "conspiracy" because there is no basis in reality to it. In other words, there is no substance to it that is worthy of being discussed, it's unscientific and has absolutely no empirical evidence to back it up. Now on your way you hysteric charisma seeker. Go repost your rehashed "go back to /pol/" line in the next climate change thread.

>Thinks other people are responsible for the problems you create

My power bill jumping 30 percent right after a mandated bill requiring power companies to supply 15 percent of energy by renewable resources (of which are dictated by the government)? I would agree with you only if I had the chance to vote on the stupid fucking bill, but I didn't. So yeah it is their fault. Want to get your last word in before not reading my posts again?

>>10699166
Imagine actually believing the colossal retardation typed here.

>>10699174
How many fields of science can you discount if you require a control group for every final result? Is it even possible for any scientific predictions to fulfill this requirement?

>>10699166
>Denying math and science on a math and science board
Go and stay go
>>>/pol/

>>10699166
>This bait

>>10699207
>>Denying math and science on a math and science board
Who are you quoting?

>>10699166
>I would agree with you only if I had the chance to vote on the stupid fucking bill, but I didn't.
If you had a chance to vote you would vote for everything to be free.

>>10691412
The thing I want to know is are there renewables that don't totally suck and whose manufacture doesn't result in significant pollution in its own right?

>>10691531
>fallacious
Its phallacious you retard.

>>10693004
True. Genocide seems to be the most logical sollution.

>>10697748
based

>>10699246
imagine thinking CO2 lags temperature based on only polar data and ignoring every study about non polar effects.

>>10697748
based and dunning-kruger pilled

>>10699082
I would rather fight a war to genocide every last climate denier than burn so many fossil fuels that the habitability of Earth is destroyed millions of years.

>>10699234
No.
That's why renewables are a meme.

>>10699174
>Imagine believing these true logical statements
Imagine

>>10699184
Is it even possible for any scientific predictions to fulfill this requirement?

Not the ones that don't have a basis in reality. A thought experiment? Sure why not.

>>10699207
>So yeah it is their fault. Want to get your last word in before not reading my posts again?

>>10699233
>If you had a chance to vote you would vote for everything to be free.

Because freedom is a bad thing. Also I never argued against the power company charging me for a service, I argued against mandatory pointless regulation that the government enforced upon a company that rose the costs up for no reason. What sense does it make to force a company to not sell its product? Clown world tier bullshit that's what.

>>10699276
Wind energy is cheaper per kWh than coal with proper siting. The economic battle is already won on some fronts and close to it on others. Obstructionist denialists and fossil fuel boards and lobbyists are the last things in the way.

>>10699275
Funny how you think you have the balls for genocide, and it never occurs to you that global genocide to reduce the world population is the only viable solution to this problem you believe is so dire.

>>10699280
>What sense does it make to force a company to not sell its product?
Tell that to the FDA next time you get poisoned by lettuce.

>>10699280
>mandatory pointless regulation
It only appears pointless to someone who either doesn't understand or actively denies the scientific facts of global warming.

>>10699281
>with proper siting
Found the flaw

>>10699282
That's how severe the problem is. Realistically it will be solved with laws, and you'll suck it up and follow them lile everyone else.

>>10699287
There are a lot of appropriate locations for wind power. Wind, solar, and supplementary nuclear where needed are more than sufficient to replace all existing fossil fuel power generation.

>>10699287
HVDC transmission lines average 3% losses per 1,000KM that opens up site options quite a bit.

>>10699103
Yeah just as rational as the people that claim to think carbon emissions are an issue, but also oppose all attempts at blocking immigration from small carbon footprint countries to large carbon footprint countries.

>>10699296
almost like reducing carbon emissions across the board is a better solution than keeping people in poverty because we don't like them

>>10699288
Nah, realistically any laws that are passed will provoke riots exactly as was the case in France.

>>10699301
The dumb boomers still opposing a carbon tax are too obese and old to be able to riot properly.

>>10699290
>Wind, solar, and supplementary nuclear where needed are more than sufficient to replace all existing fossil fuel power generation.
Pure bullshit.
Solar and wind are memes, and it takes decades to build a single nuclear power plant.

>>10699305
>nuh uh
They're not memes, even with variability they are already able to replace all existing fossil fuel power production. It's an issue of cost and fossil fuel suppliers and plant owners resisting being replaced.

>>10699305
>>10699108

>>10699303
and yet the yellow vest riots were prompted by high fuel taxes supposedly implemented to fight climate change.

Real people don't care about your ideology, they care about their day to day lives.

>>10699311
How does that chart argue against the fact that solar and wind power are reliant on the weather to generate power?

>>10699305
>https://www.cell.com/joule/pdfExtended/S2542-4351(17)30012-0
>We develop roadmaps to transform the all-purpose energy infrastructures (elec-tricity, transportation, heating/cooling, industry, agriculture/forestry/fishing)of 139 countries to ones powered by wind, water, and sunlight (WWS). Theroadmaps envision 80% conversion by 2030 and 100% by 2050. WWS notonly replaces business-as-usual (BAU) power, but also reduces it42.5%because the work: energy ratio of WWS electricity exceeds that of combustion(23.0%), WWS requires no mining, transporting, or processing of fuels (12.6%),and WWS end-use efficiency is assumed to exceed that of BAU (6.9%). Convert-ing may create24.3 million more permanent, full-time jobs than jobs lost.It may avoid4.6 million/year premature air-pollution deaths today and3.5 million/year in 2050;$22.8 trillion/year (12.7 ¢/kWh-BAU-all-energy) in2050 air-pollution costs; and$28.5 trillion/year (15.8 ¢/kWh-BAU-all-energy)in 2050 climate costs. Transitioning should also stabilize energy prices becausefuel costs are zero, reduce power disruption and increase access to energy bydecentralizing power, and avoid 1.5Cglobalwarming.

>>10699315
Storage overcapcity, HVDC long distance transmission lines, and more intelligent consumption solve these problems quite easily

>>10699305
>and it takes decades to build a single nuclear power plant.
Only because it's not pushed that much. If it were more mainstream and more contracts were funded, you'd see a huge efficiency boost within building them

>>10699284
>Tell that to the FDA next time you get poisoned by lettuce.

The free lettuce I planted myself? In my garden? See, weenie groupthinks are for weenie sheep who need the group in order to do the thinking for them. Too dumb to live for themselves or produce something useful to trade so they need others to piggy back off of and enforce their stupidity. "Wah muh lettuce, please have billions of dollars pissing off homeowners with overengineered gascans and bloated pensions".
>but that's what civilization is!
People, yes. Not retarded groups who think they are "the master race" above all. You don't get to dictate, you get to rationally discuss your opinion with the rest of us and if it's bullshit then either unfuck yourself or learn to explain shit better.

In logical world:
The CEO/Owner of the company would be dragged out by the families of the victims and forced to fix the problem immediately as well as face the consequences. Everyone is accountable because reputations and names have a unified meaning.

In weenie-groupthink-clownworld mandated world:
After about 6 months-X years in court to settle in a joint lawsuit between the company (no specific person, just an entity) and the victims in a joint lawsuit (also no specific person, just an entity) seeking "pain and suffering" compensation and a "course of action" that will cost millions of dollars in labor and paperwork for the government to investigate, pry, stall, work overtime hours. It will lead to a few million dollars being handed between a few people, frivolous taxes and paperwork mandated, disinfo/instigation by the media and a host of incoherent shit that will probably end up with the lettuce at one point or another getting "poisoned" again through a loophole. Why? Because exactly what I stated above will happen and nothing else. Just more inane shit tacked on and no actual accountability on the company or the inefficiency/ uselessness of the government. Money is people and feelings are logic.

>>10699285
>actively denies the scientific facts of global warming.

Which would be? Only asking because the answer varies between LITERALLY EVERYONE I DISCUSS THE TOPIC WITH. There is no coherency to it, a red flag that it's complete bullshit.

>>10699300
It's pathetic that people on the fucking science board genuinely seem to believe you can have your cake and eat it too.

Apparently the whole fucking world can live at first world levels, without effecting the climate!

>>10699338
>I plant my own lettuce haha
>checkmate weenie
t. the autistic ubermensch.

>>10699341
The facts? You know, the rapidly rising mean surface temperatures that is anomalous compared to the known proxy record and verifiably caused by fossil fuel combustion, agricultural practices and high meat consumption, and fluorinated gas released from industrial processes and refrigerant use. As well as the likely negative consequences of that warming, including more deadly summer heat waves, more energetic and destructive weather patterns, desertification of large swaths of land, rising sea levels, and damage to or destruction of marine and terrestrial ecosystems sometimes resulting in extinctions.

>>10699343
>>10699317

>>10699346
This is what I mean about believing in contradictory shit. It's leaking into your posts. I don't even know what to make of this are you insulting me? Aren't greenies supposed to like organic homegrown shit not bought from a corporation?

>>10699341
Fact: Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, by which we mean a gas that traps heat and makes a planet (like Earth or Venus) warmer than it would be otherwise.
Fact: Human activity, especially the use of fossil fuels2 — by which we mean coal, oil, and gas, all of which release carbon dioxide when burned — is adding significantly more of this heat-trapping gas to Earth’s atmosphere.
Inevitable Conclusion: We should expect the rising carbon dioxide concentration to warm our planet, with the warming becoming more severe as we add more carbon dioxide.

>>10699356
this is your brain on neotribalism

>>10699338
You complained about not being able to purchase something cheaply because regulations to make it safe make it more expensive. But as soon as you are confronted with positive effects of government intervention you act like you can do everything yourself. Why won't you make your own electricity and stop complaining? Why not just make your own internet and stop shitting up ours?

>>10699356
If you can't see how you're being retarded with an example that affects millions and requires oversight just because you happen to plant your own lettuce, then you're autistic because it isn't phrased in a way that directly affects you. How would you feel if your internet connector caused a fire and burned down your house? The internet provider/cable company investigate and say "freak accident; tough shit" despite it happening happening to everyone on your block. What do, anon?

>>10699361
He grabs his gun and goes for revenge, only to be killed by the internet companies PMC, it's the Ancap way.

>>10699249
gay and bluepilled

>>10699352
>You know, the rapidly rising mean surface temperatures that is anomalous compared to the known proxy record and verifiably caused by fossil fuel combustion,

Get meds you insufferable jibbering idiot.

>As well as the likely negative consequences of that warming, including more deadly summer heat waves

If you die in a heatwave you fucking deserve it lol. Too dumb to drink water or you know, live in a lace that doesn't get so fucking hot.

>more energetic and destructive weather patterns, desertification of large swaths of land, rising sea levels, and damage to or destruction of marine and terrestrial ecosystems sometimes resulting in extinctions.

Which is a walk in the park to the earth, but not to a dumb human who reifies it down to the timescale that he lives in. It doesn't give a shit about you and will pop a volcano under your feet when it feels digestion. Did you know that the majority of life that was present on earth already went extinct? And that the sea level used to be "no sea"? And humans weren't even around for all of that., hell we don't even know if that happened for a fact.

>>10699369
How much are you paid per post?

>>10699369
>Which is a walk in the park to the earth, but not to a dumb human who reifies it down to the timescale that he lives in. It doesn't give a shit about you and will pop a volcano under your feet when it feels digestion. Did you know that the majority of life that was present on earth already went extinct? And that the sea level used to be "no sea"? And humans weren't even around for all of that., hell we don't even know if that happened for a fact.
I care about human timescales because I'm a human and I like living, and I kind of want my kids to live as well. Why you think any of this is a good argument against taking action against AGW I doubt i'll ever know.

>>10699374
This kind of stupidity works for free

>>10699369
>it's jibbering if you bring up facts I don't like

>>10699320
>more intelligent consumption
aka. rationing and reduced standard of living

>>10699376
Fuck your kids.

>>10699382
You know what will reduce standard of living even more? Doing nothing about the warming.

>>10699317
>we envision
Pure speculative pie in the sky bullshit.

>>10699360
>You complained about not being able to purchase something cheaply because regulations to make it safe make it more expensive. But as soon as you are confronted with positive effects of government intervention you act like you can do everything yourself

What positive effect? I'm not a weenie so I wouldn't know, I don't use the government except for when I'm obviously forced to. They tax me to use my own property(car), they tax me to own my own property, they tax me just to get a raise because they feel like it. What do I get? Roads? Could have paid a private company to do it better for cheaper. Healthcare? That sure worked out didn't it? Education? Yeah, get taught what to think by others who got taught what to think. Like you, you dribbling drone.

>>10699361
>you can't see how you're being retarded with an example that affects millions and requires oversight just because you happen to plant your own lettuce, then you're autistic because it isn't phrased in a way that directly affects you.
-t. virtue signaler. Care for yourself and what you value (material possessions latter), if everyone did this there wouldn't be anything wrong. Why should I give a fuck about something that doesn't affect me? For what reason? Illogical.

>>10699357
Fun fact, water vapor is a worse greenhouse gas. Maybe we should ban water. Oh and heat? You mean that shit that keeps things alive and well? Yeah I love that shit, fuck winter. Oh and carbon? The backbone of life? Trees love that shit. We love that shit too, we make bicycles for people like you with it.

>>10693073
>>10696932
>>10696947
Typical millennial attitude on display.
Hmm, why don't you practice a lifestyle reflective of the beliefs you claim to hold important?
>that's impossible!
>I need to buy gas from Ahmed to drive my Goyota 50 miles to work!
>If I'm late Mr. Shekelberg will fire me!
>If I lose my job I can't by Xianpeng's goods for recreation time!
>I literally have no choice!
>The only way to solve this is have mommy and daddy change the rules so my side can win!

You see folks, this is the result of a generation brought up while never being told no. The answer is never to do something yourself or to rise above the status quo. If the game isn't going your way the only solution is to ask the powers that be to change the rules. Pathetic.

I do think it's funny how many people talk about climate change yet they also fly around the world and travel all the time. It's funny because if you truly believed in climate change you would never travel at all it is the most damaging thing you could do according to their beliefs. But ironically that would lead to the opposite of a globalized world if people actually stopped flying.

>>10699387
Nope.
I'll be dead by the time it's a problem.
If it even is a problem in the first place, and I'm more than willing to bet the lives of your children that it won't be.

>>10699376
Well the earth doesn't give a shit about your ass or your kid or your dumb feewings. Go ask the victims of Pompeii.

>Why you think any of this is a good argument against taking action against AGW I doubt i'll ever know.
>Yes when studying the planet we shouldn't keep the planet in mind, only us and our limited timescales.

Stupid, dumb, materialist scum.

>>10699383
The earth agree, fuck his kids. That's why it made ravines and canyons.

>>10699381
rapidly rising mean surface temperatures as compared to what? Also CO2 lags behind temperature so there is that.

>>10699399
CO2 only lags behind temperature at the poles you dumb fuck It leads everywhere else.

>>10699391
>when you're so far down the rabbit hole that you call utilitarianism on a clue kashmiri forum "virtue signaling"
>when you can't stop shitposting about how other people enact policies to protect people while also preaching that people should mind their own business
kek

>>10699390
Backed up with research, facts and figures, how about you comment on them

>>10699391
Fun fact, water vapor is a worse greenhouse gas. Maybe we should ban water. Oh and heat? You mean that shit that keeps things alive and well? Yeah I love that shit, fuck winter. Oh and carbon? The backbone of life? Trees love that shit. We love that shit too, we make bicycles for people like you with it.

>IF I DON'T EAT 10,000 CALORIES A DAY I'LL STARVE FOOD IS GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!

>>10699395
Apathyfags will follow the climate law like everyone else or be dealt with as gratuitously immoral criminals should be.

>>10699399
>rapidly rising mean surface temperatures as compared to what?
Compared to the proxy record that shows no such evidence of a temperature change so rapid in tens of thousands of years. Even the Younger Dryas event was much slower.

>>10699400
>CO2 only lags behind temperature according to the most comprehensive study done on the planet.
FTFY

>This inert cold place where there is the least centrifugal force and direct sun is a condenser for the hot areas.

Go figure.

>>10699401
>when you can't stop shitposting about how other people enact policies to protect people while also preaching that people should mind their own business
If the policy was "mind your own business" then it would be a self evident truth and we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it.

>>10699420
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature10915#methods-summary
>This inert cold place where there is the least centrifugal force and direct sun is a condenser for the hot areas.
lmao did you even read what I said?

>>10699413
Come get me commie, you'll find me at the end of the trail of dead climate cops you send for me.

>>10699503
>laws I don't like are communist
>muh cold dead gasoline hands
lol

>>10698943
>tripling
>$1200 for an electric bill
How in the fuck do you use 2 mwh of electricity every month?

>>10699640
Not the regular, just the worst in the winter. 3 people, two story house. All electric heat, but it's heatpumps so it's way more efficient and the cost is offset from the fact that we don't use oil for heat (people overlook this). We would have natural gas, but there's a dumb law that says you have to have every person on the street sign up for it and lucky for us we have two Jehovah's dipshits that aren't allowed to participate/ sign for it according to one of their backwards ass beliefs.

>>10691412
The Consumers love to consume. Don't try to make them think about how it affects others. Consuming is the natural thing to do for them, and they don't like thinking.

Born to consume, baby. Fun! Fun law of the jungle! Kinda like animals, basically.

>>10699409
Consumers gotta consume, consume, consume.

Bloated consumers are the modern version of the morbidly obese. Luckily for them,most people aren't well enough educated to be disgusted by it. Most people... the people that have done their homework are, but that doesn't bother the modern bloated consumer, as long as the retards are none the wiser, its all good. Sort of like politicians, they keep spewing the kind of crap the retards like gobbling up, and if a few people are smart enough to see through their crap, 'ah well, as long as its only a few people no then worries party on'.

>>10699717
>waaaaah why aren't you content to live like a starving soviet peasant!

>>10699240
Acktchually, yew arr tha rhetarde

>>10699240
>phallacious
This anon is confirmed fag

I don't get this idea. Why would you not believe famous scientists unless you have a Ph.D. in the area?

I mean, you would not say that GPS is a hoax, or Machine Learning, or DNA Recognition, or you wouldn't say that the composition of the sun is a big fat lie because you would need a lifetime of study to master an area.

Intuition is an awful tool to try to explain the world. It's been proved over and over again that we shouldn't trust our intuition no matter how beautiful or right it seems.

We can't understand everything in our single lifetime; we need to have some measurement of trust in studies that were peer-reviewed over and over again and experiments that were proved right and verified.

I find it interesting that thinking that global warming is a hoax goes along with flat earth and other stuff like that. Because it's defended by people who don't have a solid background, that misunderstand every line they read and always believe they are right. No questions asked

>>10699783
Ivar Giaever is a skeptic. He has a PhD and is a Physics Nobel laureate.

>>10699783
>Why would you not believe famous scientists unless you have a Ph.D. in the area?
because I don't have a Ph.D. in the area, so I can't tell if I'm being scammed or not. So why the hell should I trust some one just because they're famous?

The whole reason we're even in this mess in the first place, is because our ancestors decided to take the word of the famous scientists with the Ph.Ds. Literally none of the major potentially civilization ending issues that humans currently face, would exist if it weren't for people assuming that the famous scientists with the Ph.D.s knew what the hell they were doing.

>>10699806
>Giaever is currently a science advisor with American conservative and libertarian think tank, The Heartland Institute.
Why am I not surprised.

>>10699806
So what has he published on the issue? Where's his evidence? The whole point of science is that personal opinion is meaningless and conclusions can only be drawn from peer reviewed research.

>>10699807
I'm assuming scientists are famous because their studies were widely accepted. Not because their appear on TV. Sorry for not clarifying.

I rather trust in a dozen of proven papers and methods than to not believe in anything and tryu to understand everything by myself. I mean, my understanding would be a mess about nature as I'm not even close of being expert on everything.

And I agree with you, you shouldn't take anyone's word for it. But if you're going to contradict it, you better know what you're saying.

> Literally none of the major potentially civilization ending issues that humans currently face, would exist if it weren't for people assuming that the famous scientists with the Ph.D.s knew what the hell they were doing.
Sorry, can you give me an example here?

>>10699806
Thank you, I will look into to see what he published about the topic

i drive a small 4 cylinder and im a vegan so im doing my part.

>>10698421

lol this isn't even true at all.

>oh no what will i do without my precious saturated and trans fats!

it's because we are all fat and complacent. not a single peraon living an average late-modern western life is blameless for the incoming catastrophe. we brought this upon ourselves through a combination of institutional inertia, and negligence, and when the seas acidify, we will al be getting exactly what we asked for.

>>10699806
>>10699827
I have found two lectures that he gave:
https://www.mediatheque.lindau-nobel.org/abstracts/30936/2012-the-strange-case-of-global-warming/laureate-giaever

https://www.mediatheque.lindau-nobel.org/abstracts/34535/ivar-giaever-global-warming-revisited/laureate-giaever

I didn't find actual publications, but he is really a monster of physics

>>10699806

>>10699846
>In 2008 I participated on a panel at the Lindau meeting discussing “Global Warming” and to prepare, I looked into the subject using the internet. I found that the general belief is that the average surface temperature over the whole earth for a whole year has increased from ~288 oK to 288.8 oK in roughly 150 years, i.e. 0.3% and that it is due to increased CO2. If this is true, it means to me that the temperature has been amazingly stable.
In the same time period the number of people has increased in the world from 1.5 billions to over 7 billions. Is it possible that all the paved roads and cut down forests have had an effect on the climate?
thanks for the laugh

>>10699849
I was showing the videos I found and praising his long list of studies in physics. I never said I agree or disagree with what he's saying

>>10699854
Sorry dude I think all that heartland institute money got to him. Not that I blame him they pay really really fucking well.

>>10699855
No it's fine, no need to apologize. I wouldn't go and believe he's been bought just yet though, I never heard him talking but he got and extensive portfolio, it's not like Robert A. Kehoe so far.
Again, I'm not saying he's right, I'm just interested in what he has to say

>>10699683
How in the fucking fuck do three people consume so much goddamn energy? What are you doing with it? Heat pumps DO NOT account for 2 fucking megawatt-hours

>>10699855
He said he resigned from The American Physical Society not because global warming was not happening, but because he said that they couldn't discuss about it. However, they said that the evidence is incontrovertible, not that no one should ever debate it

>>10699869
act like an asshole get treated like an asshole, If you show up in someone else's field and act like no one knows what they're doing you'd better have some pretty fucking good evidence to support your claims.

>>10699869
He didn't publish any papers about the topic though (not that I could find). It appears that he wants to talk about the data.

He carries on saying that 0.8K-degree change is not big enough, but he doesn't show any data or studies to prove that fact from a biological point of view.

I will continue to watch but won't post here anymore. I feel like he is skeptical about the topic, but he's presenting his opinion, not facts. He said in the beginning that he got just a little involved with global warming.

If it was a real threat shouldn't we nuke China and India?

>>10699878
>>10699879
So yeah, not publishing means not really researching

>>10699885
But honestly I don't understand enough about the subject to dispute any side. Would need me some time to understand a shitload of things before I feel confident about my opinion

>>10699054
>someone who things he's intelligent
>things
anon, I...

>>10699393
It is because people can't be shamed out of crime and hypocrisy that laws and regulations exist. Deal with it, silly brat.

>>10691412
You could contribute by quitting your job as a paid troll, and work where research into renewable energy is conducted.

>>10699783
Nobody with a PHD is telling you in 5 years florida will be underwater and we the world will be in chaos. Only liberal arts journalists say that crap. PHD scientists say the climate is in trouble not alarmist BS that we are all gonna die tomorrow.

>>10699849
I find it alarming that a physicist would present a percentage change on a temperature scale and pretend it's not arbitrary. He must know it's arbitrary.

>>10697027
tits or GTFO

Climate change is god's will

just like the great flood.

>>10691678
Industry is driven by needs of individuals. They won't stop selling disposable plastic products if people are still willing to buy them. They will manufacture more and hence use more energy if people just want to consume and keep buying more and more stuff.

How long until eco terrorists start shooting and bombing things?

>>10700188
Yeah, only socialism can solve this problem. And I mean completely abolishing property and exchange and rationally planning all production.

>inb4 hayek once assumed socialism has prices and retains property and concluded that planning is intractable
There is no non-theological reason why the economy could not be planned, all attempts to prove otherwise invoke mythical notions like private knowledge, and assume the existence of generalized trade and currency.

The point of it however is to do away with them entirely, and meet human need, 80% of which is now in not destroying the planet. Otherwise, human needs are actually known and we have productive capacities to meet them all

Capitalism does not work

>>10699867
First of all, you're making a guess as to how much I pay per kilo-watt hour and how many watts I actually use. If you're going by the googled .17 cents per kwh then you're almost correct, BUT you forgot to account for all the tacked on fees, services, all the other nonsense included in the bill itself (google and the power company doesn't tell you what that is). The electricity I used on that 400 bill was only about 200-250 dollars, right above the national average of 1 mw per household a month.

Please forgive 3 people for using over a megawatt of electricity to heat an old brick home in the middle of a below freezing month without using any oil whatsoever. If you account for the fact we don't use gas oil or propane, we probably use less energy than everyone else.

>>10700212
I swear to god, I will fucking shoot you.

>>10700212
>Capitalism does not work
well that depends on your point of view. if all you want is money and don't give a fuck about global consequences or the poor people who are hurt, capitalism works pretty well

i do agree though, socialism is the only chance we have. the only remaining question is whether we pursue electoral change or a violent revolt. given the power and resources of the military i'm fairly certain any violent revolt would immediately be squashed, but i know there are people who are equally skeptical of legislative change

>>10700212
>There is no non-theological reason why the economy could not be planned

Except for the fact that nobody seems to be able to define what "value" is

>all attempts to prove otherwise invoke mythical notions like private knowledge, and assume the existence of generalized trade and currency.

Assume? No those things actually exist and people use them. Currency may be fiat but people have ARBITRARILY deemed it to have value. That is how "value" is actually created. It doesn't follow any logical or scientific basis and is purely dictated by feelings and emotions. If you cannot even properly deduce what "value" is except for a conviction / theory then all you're doing is arbitrating what is arbitrary, which is what stupid fucking dictators do. Socialism cannot solve any problem let alone the problem of civilization because it runs on the assumptions of a select few who deem what is valuable and what isn't, even if the reasoning is never explained.

>>10700352
>Imagine being this retarded
First of all, that's the national average including massive manufacturing plants, you fucking moron. Second of all, most power companies have a tiered service where the first x kwh cost something like 12 cents, the next y cost something like 16 and none of them have more than $20 in fees. Third of all, even using 24 cents per kwh that puts you well over 1.5 mwh. Fourth, I don't know anyone who has ever paid an electric bill higher than $120 regardless of how many people were living there. Fifth, it is not your heating and air conditioning because ground source heat pumps are several times more efficient than any other heating or cooling technology and brick is a great insulator.

Get a fucking energy audit, you mong. They're $50 so you won't even notice it on your massive fucking bill

>>10700522
>Second of all, most power companies have a tiered service where the first x kwh cost something like 12 cents, the next y cost something like 16 and none of them have more than $20 in fees.

>Fourth, I don't know anyone who has ever paid an electric bill higher than $120 regardless of how many people were living there. Fifth, it is not your heating and air conditioning because ground source heat pumps are several times more efficient than any other heating or cooling technology and brick is a great insulator.

I would argue against your points, but they're all assumptions and most of them are so incorrect that I fail to see how you manage to dress yourself in the morning. You actually believe bricks are a good insulator and that a heatpump doesn't use more electricity in the middle of fucking winter. Also you still are assuming that $400 is my regular bill. It's ONE month out of the year. 1 18000 btu's and 2 12000 btus plus water, lights, computer and microwave. Do the math you dumb bib wearer.

>energy audit

Everytime I hear this term I laugh because I can't believe that people are actually so fucking stupid that they pay others to read the fucking stickers on the appliances they use because they can't do math. I wonder how dumb they feel after getting one of these audit.

>Well sir, we've done this comprehensive study on your house built in the 1950's and we've concluded that you have low insulation and your windows are old! Maybe if you just spend $20,000 fixing that and pay me to tell you what any alcoholic could have told you, you'll save money 5 years down the line.

Clown world.

>>10700576
>I can't believe that people are actually so fucking stupid that they pay others to read the fucking stickers on the appliances they use because they can't do math.
Sounds like it's perfect for you since you don't know how much energy your heat pump uses, moron.

Protip: it can be done with a $20 Rogowski coil, but your dumb ass is so retarded that you'd probably find a way to electrocute yourself

>>10700115
Oh lmao I couldn't figure out why he kept using Kelvin.

>>10700605
>buy this fancy AC probe so you can quantize how much you're being fucked
>measuring the usage of electricity lowers the need for it.

You are really fucking stupid you know that? This is your last (you) so make it count. I bet you don't even know how a heatpump works let alone how much energy it uses depending on the outside tempurature.

>What? The outside temperature affects something that depends on the temperature outside?

Yeah numbnuts, it's almost like it becomes harder to extract heat when there's less fucking heat outside. Google that along with your stupid fancy coiled copper wire.

>>10700623
>$20
>fancy
Wew, lad. Sounds to me like you're 12 and bitching about your parents electric bill

>Yeah numbnuts, it's almost like it becomes harder to extract heat when there's less fucking heat outside.
Confirmed 12 years old. You're extracting heat to or from 6ft underground which has a very different temperature from the outside air and that temperature difference is being stepped up by your heat pump with has a COP greater than 100%. Do you know of any heat exchanger with an efficiency of 100%? How about one with a greater efficiency?

>>10698976
Businesses close every day anon that is trivial. When the choice is between some schleps losing their businesses or everyone on the planet getting a shittier quality of life I don't know how people even have to think about it

10700643
>Wew, lad. Sounds to me like you're 12 and bitching about your parents electric bill

Sounds to me like you're an engineering prick who can't be bothered to call it a fucking "AC probe" because it doesn't sound sophisticated enough for you. Also doesn't change the fact that measuring something doesn't actually change that something. I will consume the same btu's of heat to keep my pipes freezing regardless of how I measure the electricity.

>You're extracting heat to or from 6ft underground which has a very different temperature from the outside air and that temperature difference is being stepped up by your heat pump with has a COP greater than 100%

Jesus fucking Christ you are incredibly dense. A "heatpump" is not "geothermal" you lint-headed clod. No wonder you're confused about my power bill.

>>10700666
>"heatpump" is not "geothermal"
>Implying geothermal works at a depth of 6 ft
Lol what a fucking moron. A ground based heat pump is not anything like geothermal and even if you're using it's above-ground idiot brother you'd still have a COP greater than 100%

>Sounds to me like you're an engineering prick who can't be bothered to call it a fucking "AC probe" because it doesn't sound sophisticated enough for you.
It is one specific type of AC probe, moron.

>Also doesn't change the fact that measuring something doesn't actually change that something
You could, I don't know... Turn it off?

>I will consume the same btu's of heat to keep my pipes freezing regardless of how I measure the electricity.
It's not your fucking heating, moron. It literally cannot be unless you're leaving all your windows open while you run it

>>10700682
sounds like his heatpump is trying to exchange heat with a portal to Jötunheimr

>>10700711
Fuckin-a, man. This shit literally blows my mind

10700682
>Lol what a fucking moron. A ground based heat pump is not anything like geothermal and even if you're using it's above-ground idiot brother you'd still have a COP greater than 100%.

Unless the heatpump you're talking about uses compression and r410 Freon gas then I don't give a fuck about what you just said. It has absolutely nothing to do with the ground or what's in the ground. You are misinformed or illinformed about the product I'm talking about

>It is one specific type of AC probe, moron.
Yes, it measures too. Big fucking deal, that's not even a factor in the argument.

>You could, I don't know... Turn it off?
>Not using electricity saves electricity

Holy shit he's getting smarter. At least you're one step above "just measure it bro". The only problem is that pipes freeze when you don't use heat. Also I never had a problem with paying for electricity, I had a problem with paying surcharges related to the regulations of that electricity that are completely pointless and out of my control.

You're basically trying to help me solve a problem and you don't even understand what the problem is. I suggest you go back and reread my posts. Or don't and continue this "blind men and an elephant" roleplay of yours.

>>10699312
>the yellow vest riots were prompted by high fuel taxes supposedly implemented to fight climate change.

That was the story on Fox news. The truth is it was about systemic economic problems, not carbon tax per se

You think people will riot in the non-french, non-plebe ghettos? I'll take that bet. Won't happen

>>10700748
>Unless the heatpump you're talking about uses compression and r410 Freon gas then I don't give a fuck about what you just said.
... That's... That's what a heat pump is. Why did you come to a math and science board?

>You are misinformed or illinformed about the product I'm talking about
One of us certainly is.

>Big fucking deal, that's not even a factor in the argument.
You made it a factor.

>Holy shit he's getting smarter. At least you're one step above "just measure it bro". The only problem is that pipes freeze when you don't use heat.
It's not your heat. It literally cannot be.

>You're basically trying to help me solve a problem and you don't even understand what the problem is.
The problem is your massive over-consumption and your absolute ignorance regarding anything energy related. Get a fucking energy audit, you mong. You've very clearly demonstrated that you're not competent to do it yourself or even estimate it based off the stickers like you suggested

>>10700711
>>10700714
Maybe it's got a leak and all his refrigerant is gone

10700761

>.. That's... That's what a heat pump is. Why did you come to a math and science board?
A type of heatpump, yes. Apparently they make several types. I google "ground heatpump"(your words) and I get nothing but geothermal type heatpumps, some run on water. This is the info I have to work with bro.

>>10700643
>You're extracting heat to or from 6ft underground

No part of this system is underground. Let me repeat that for you. NO PART OF THIS SYSTEM IS UNDERGROUND. I have no clue what you're on about. Just post what you think I have or what unit you're referring to. No pipes are underground. No electrical lines are underground. It is an outside coil and an inside blower, the cycles reverse in heating/cooling and is connected by insulated copper tubing. It use a fan and a scroll compressor.

>You made it a factor.
No U. You're the only one bitching about MY energy usage, I am fine with it. I am not fine with regulating it and adding more costs for no logical reason. Stop dragging this on.

>It's not your heat. It literally cannot be.
I mean you can factor in other shit too. Electric dryer/washer might contribute. Also, you STILL HAVE NOT GOTTEN THE PART WHERE I HAVE SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT IT'S THE WORST ONE (1) MONTH OUT OF THE YEAR. BELOW FUCKING ZERO MEANS THE "HEAT" TAKES MORE ENERGY TO ABSORB. Right now it's $120, but the pumps are way more efficient in cooling. This setup is more efficient because I am not burning ANY fossil fuel, so I am saving money on that. However if these green lunatics keep inflating the price of electricity then guess what? It will become cheaper to heat with oil.

In clown world I will end up burning more oil because of these dumb green energy policies.

>>10700910
>Doubling down on retardation
Wew, lad this whole post is denial and garbage.

>geothermal type heatpumps
No heat pump uses geothermal energy. I encourage you to look up what "geothermal" means.

>I have no clue what you're on about
Clearly. You also don't seem to be able to read very well. ANY heat pump has a COP greater than 100%. Ground based heat pumps have COPs of around 1500%

>I am fine with it
You're obviously not. This started because you were bitching about the cost of electricity. This is a very simple problem so solve. So simple, in fact, that any moron should be able to address it unless they're underage and have no authority in their household.

>Also, you STILL HAVE NOT GOTTEN THE PART WHERE I HAVE SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT IT'S THE WORST ONE (1) MONTH OUT OF THE YEAR. BELOW FUCKING ZERO MEANS THE "HEAT" TAKES MORE ENERGY TO ABSORB
You still fundamentally don't understand how a heat pump works. The only possible way ANY heat pump of ANY type could run up your bill that much is if you have your windows open or if all the freon leaked out like >>10700890 suggested.

You have nobody to blame for your energy consumption but yourself. If you don't want to save hundreds of dollars by addressing your over-consumption then frankly you're not smart enough to be anything other than consumerist cattle for the corporations that are exploiting you

>>10700931
>No heat pump uses geothermal energy
>Ground based heat pumps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heat_pump

On your way you fucking drunk.

>You're obviously not. This started because you were bitching about the cost of electricity.

I never bitched about the cost of electricity, I bitched about the cost of regulating the cost and production of it of it. Get some reading comprehension.

>You still fundamentally don't understand how a heat pump works.
Tell me how it works, I dare you.

>The only possible way ANY heat pump of ANY type could run up your bill that much is if you have your windows open or if all the freon leaked out like >>10700890 suggested.

Or if the temperature drops below the rated temp output of the fucking unit.

>You have nobody to blame for your energy consumption but yourself.

...And the people that regulate what way it's consumed.

>If you don't want to save hundreds of dollars by addressing your over-consumption then frankly you're not smart enough to be anything other than consumerist cattle for the corporations that are exploiting you.

Or maybe they could just stop forcing us to get energy from a certain source. Heaven forbid I speak up against those that oppress me. You stupid sheep. Exploiting me? I LIKE HEAT. I LIKE ELECTRICITY.

>>10700980
>The engineering and scientific communities prefer the terms "geoexchange" or "ground source heat pumps" to avoid confusion with traditional geothermal power, which uses a high temperature heat source to generate electricity.[1] Ground source heat pumps harvest heat absorbed at the Earth's surface from solar energy.
It's like you can't read or something

>Get some reading comprehension.
You bitched about a 30% increase in cost by strawmanning a 300% increase and then outed yourself by telling the internet how much you pay for electricity

>Tell me how it works, I dare you
Liquid refrigerant spills into a low pressure vessel and the energy absorbed through the walls of that vessel cause it to boil. The gaseous refrigerant is compressed by the compressor and fed into the condenser which transfers the superheat through it's walls. The liquid refrigerant then spills back into the low pressure vessel and the cycle begins again. Heat pumps exploit the state change of the refrigerant in order to increase the temperature difference between the system and the environment which increases the rate and efficiency of the energy transfer. Furthermore, COP is coefficient of performance and it corresponds to the thermodynamic efficiency of resistive heaters and heat exchangers. Because heat pumps use energy to MOVE energy rather than GENERATE energy they have throughputs of greater than 100%. That means that no matter what you use it will be less efficient than a heat pump.

>Or if the temperature drops below the rated temp output of the fucking unit.
That temperature is determined by the level of charge in your unit and it's adjusted to your local needs when it's installed. If this is the case then you either got scammed, the refrigerant leaked out, or you should have known that an above ground heat exchanger was not a feasible option for your local and you should have spent the extra money on the ground based one.

(Continued)

>>10700980
>...And the people that regulate what way it's consumed.
They are not coming into your house and turning on your shit and the idea that regulation is the cause of your over-consumption is laughable.

>Or maybe they could just stop forcing us to get energy from a certain source.
The only such regulations keep rivers from catching fire and lungs from bleeding or are put in place by power companies to limit renewable energy installation thus protecting their profits.

You are a useful idiot, but you are also human and therefore you can become more. Be better than this.

>>10700997
He's whining about renewable laws so I assume he lives in Cali, but even then it's only 19C per KWH

>>10701012
Maybe, but I don't think so. He's also bitching about Winter exceeding the rating of his heat pump which should not happen with California's mild Winters

Most of you climate people are stupid. In this society you need to give up so much of your time to have a career. You can say I'm lazy for driving to work but bitch I only have so much time in my life maybe you should tell my job to make me work less instead of bitching to me.

>>10701295
How about better public transport?

>>10701295
>maybe you should tell my job to make me work less instead of bitching to me
I absolutely advocate less fiscal inequality and more workers rights. You can support two things

>>10701340
>>10701402
Well until we get that I'm gonna pollute the atmosphere.

>>10701920
How shortsighted

>>10701940
At the end of the day nobody is going to actually make my work day shorter. They are not actually going to give me more time. If I biked everywhere and was the most green person ever I would have to sacrifice much more than any of the people who are the number one cause of climate change. I only contribute a fraction compared to what society contributes.

>>10701945
>I don't feel like anything will change so I won't make any effort to change it
You might as well just kill yourself

>>10701977
Wow what a reasonable response you sure convinced me.

>>10701999
If you're going to do nothing but say "woe is me, I am so powerless" then everyone would be better off with you swinging in a noose

>>10702028
Why don't you go first because I guarantee you haven't accomplished anything at all to solve climate change. According to you that makes a life worthless so kill yourself lead by example.

>>10702041
I don't believe I'm powerless and I'm taking real steps to limit my pollution, secure my food supply, and BTW decrease inequality.

You believe you are a powerless zombie who's only purpose is to consume resources. Just die.

>>10702052
Oh really? And you do all that while working full time? So you walk and bike everywhere, grow your own organic food, help homeless people get of the streets, etc? I highly fucking doubt it you probably just post shit on social media and feel good about it. Maybe you recycle occasionally and only fly once in a while so do I but I'm not under some delusion that it is effecting anything in the grand scheme of things.

>>10702064
I don't need to work full time because I've minimized my consumption and maximized my pay. You don't have to give up creature comforts to make a real change in the world

>help homeless people get of the streets, etc?
Absolutely. I used to give a homeless man named BJ $20 a day until he was able to reconnect with his aunt and put his life back together.

You should really just kill yourself

>>10702070
Fucking bullshit dude. Now I know you are just some dumb kid who doesn't know what he is even talking about. Or you are someone who inherited a ton of wealth. Fuck off you idiot you know nothing. Also most chronically homeless people are schizophrenic you don't fix their problems by giving them $20 a day. You need to realize the world is full of problems and it is impossible to expect every individual to somehow help everyone's lives improve. You are expecting individuals to be perfect angels nobody is perfect. If anything you say about yourself is even true it is largely because of luck not because you are some perfect person.

>>10702076
BJ was just a long-abused drunk. He's doing much better now. The rest of your post is meaningless projection.

Rope is only $5

>>10702083
And it's all because of you isn't it anon. Man you are such a humble person.

>>10702086
No, it's mostly because of his aunt who he was able to reconnect with as a result of my actions

>>10702091
Okay so you helped a homeless guy...but you still haven't solved climate change...

>>10702093
>but you still haven't solved climate change...
No one person can. You are looking for an excuse to justify your inaction. You have none.

Tide pods are on sale for $3.49

>>10702100
You keep telling someone to kill himself yet I am supposed to believe you really actually helped a homeless man get his life together? I highly doubt it you are not a kind or caring person you come off as someone who likes to stroke his own ego. You also never answered how you make a living or how you get around. You dodged all of that in order to talk about how you saved someone's life who may not even exist while you encourage someone else to die.

>>10702107
That homeless man is worth more to me than some whiner on the internet who just wants people to feel sorry for them.

X-acto knives are a dollar

>>10702132
The homeless man doesn't exist and you're a faggot.

>>10702135
You should follow that homeless man's example and either improve your life or not exist