/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10690782
Nothing.

>>10690782
based on current knowledge, this >>10690784
There is no way to know one way or the other if there is an afterlife or not, and it's actually objectively dumb as fuck to be an atheist (see Pascal's Wager).
Still, every (true) scientist is agnostic, unless one of them has been personally visited by God or something.

>>10690794
> unless one of them has been personally visited by God or something.
A true scientist would regard such an event as a probable hallucination. They would require overhwhelming evidence and probably community consensus.

>>10690782
what happened before you were born? it's like that

>>10690794
>pascals wager
hmmmm

I wasn't asking about an afterlife or heaven or hell but what happens to the brain at the moment of death is there any activity or anything unusual

>>10690807
the moment of death is typically defined as the end of brain activity
there is some suggestion that people experience a kind of euphoria just before this occurs

>>10690804
So what's the optimal solution? I simultaneously believe all of these, just to be sure.

>>10690828
What if one of those that you believe in shuns the idea of choosing a belief purely for self gain? Then you either fucked yourself if it's true, or it doesn't bother you because you genuinely don't believe it, which is the real crux of the wager. You can't choose a spiritual belief based off a pro and con chart, belief is a compulsion, not a choice

>>10690828
Unfortunately commandment 1 is fuck you no polytheism.

>>10690807
>>10690828
At the moment of brain death, it has been scientifically shown that as the neurons shut down, you still retain consciousness for 10-15 minutes, and you can still hear and see. Basically, when you die, if it's in a hospital room or something, you will be able to hear the doctor pronounce you dead
>>10690808
There is info that some people have feelings of profound peace, others have feelings of extreme anxiety/fear. It's pretty fucked up to think about, honestly

>>10690782
> most realistic event that happens after one dies?
You shit yourself.

>>10690804
>Mfw Waaqeffanna was the one true religion this whole time

>>10690782
You already been in a state analogous to your brain not existing or being dead from at least the big bang til very recently. Remember what those 13.7 billion years where like? Being dead is just more of that.

>>10690794
I cringed at that Pascal thing.

>>10691100
atheist huh?
back to /pol/ with you

>>10691101
I'm agnostic, the kind of agnostic who never has the necessity of thinking about god. It's completely stupid to "believe" in something for convenience. If I have to believe in god, in which one? Stop the stupidity.

>>10690782
Scientifically speaking, a lot happens after you die. Everything that constitutes who you are disperses throughout the earth, becoming incorporated into new life and into the earth itself.

After billions of years, the sun expands, engulfs the earth, and blows off its outer layers, seeding the interstellar medium with material to form new stars and planets.

The end of your life as a human is only the beginning of your journey, scientifically speaking. The Universe is still very young.

>>10691112
You don’t understand Pascal’s wager

>>10691114
Well, no, it is the end of “YOUR” journey, as in your human mind/conscious
Not your atoms’ journey. Nobody was questioning that

>>10691114
My atoms are already 99% replaced every 5 years, they are not my identity. Nor is my form, which changes. Nor is my memory, which flutters. Nor is my DNA which mutates and decay. The only identity I have is my subjective experience, moment after moment.

>>10690794
Pascal's wager falls apart as soon as you observe all the other insane things you'd better believe is true because the cost of being wrong would be too steep.

The cost of believing in something that is incorrect and let that dictate how you live your one life you know for sure is there on the off chances some
super unlikely fairy-tale scenario is gonna occur in the afterlife is like betting everything you have against the worst imaginable odds, every theist is atheist of all theologies save one after all.
It's really the intellectual equivalent of seeing a massive jackpot and agreeing to play Russian roulette with a Gatling cannon over it.

>>10691120
Because I said this? "If I have to believe in god, in which one?"
Take that off. It's like a fun game of logic but nothing else. Explain me how you tie it up to real life not knowing what the fuck god is. It's not as simple as to believe or not.

>>10691125
>>10691140
Scientifically speaking, there is nothing more to who you are than your physical manifestation. Scientifically, death is a change of state. Saying nothing happens after you die is like saying nothing happens after wood is burned. Subjective experience and consciousness are very poorly defined scientifically and hardly constitute scientific concepts.

>>10690782
Reincarnation

You really think you have one life and then that's it? nah m8 this shit is eternal and you won't stop reincarnating, your soul will continue to accrue lifetimes of memories.

>>10691164
Like, what if god sends to hell people who believes a lot.

>>10691098
Maybe I just forgot.

>>10691168
I'm atheist but I still hope the Hindus are correct. The number of people I come across that will spend the next one as a maggot who get to live in a rhinos butt is just staggering.

>>10691168
>Source: trust me bro

>>10691167
You think saying science is beyond subjective empirical data is an argument? That a sum of subjective point of views doesn't inherit the subjective attribute? Science is based on observation, if there are two groups, each one in a planet, and Group A reports a new phenomenon, do you think Group B has to accept that without subjective putting themselves on the laboratory or behind a telescope in order to make it scientific? "Nah you don't have to see it yourself, just believe us, empiricism is a thing of the past". Why do you think I care about the bureaucracy behind saying if observation is scientific or not?

>>10691168
>You really think you have one life and then that's it?
Yup. This is my first life and it's been a Nirvana speed run. Git gud non-enlightened peasants.

>>10691098
the only reason we remember is because we have a brain slowing everything down, the real world is just everything happening at once, desu, when you die, the universe might just restart.

>>10691168
personally I think reincarnation just makes too much sense. Like life needs a conscious observer so why wouldn't you just observe through something else.

>>10690782
Insufficient data for sufficient answer.

>>10691203
kek

>>10691203
Idk being a bug is probably pretty based. And they don't live long so it's not like the month or whatever you'll be alive will be too bad

Spectate until the game is over, start again in another lobby

>>10691167
Lol science says conscious experience doesn't exist even though all data we have is the result of conscious experiences.

>>10690828
Be a good person, pick a religion you like, and work on achieving immortality to avoid it all if that’s your style

>>10690782
Your energy goes where it is needed next

>>10690864
You still get a decent subset of gods if you just pick the ones that are Yahweh in different costumes.

>>10690828
bp

>>10690782
Most realistic right now would be nothing.
You die, and then nothing.
Then perhaps you every once in a while pop back into existence because of random particle activity.

>>10690782
your neurons die off and slowly stop firing, then it‘s the same as before you were born

>>10690807
at least at beheadings in mice there is a rapid dropoff in brain activity almost instantly, followed by a flatline after about 10 seconds. most of the time there is a higher peak at the end followed by the flatline again.

We have almost no information and therefore any presumption we make would be silly.

Though in my uneducated opinion it is most likely the same as the billions of years before I exsisted and the nature of life is indeed transient.

Dw op mortality is only a current day problem.
In like 5generations they’ll figure out how to move or save consciousness digitally so yes /we/ will probably die but soon, with the help of integral biotech we will walk beyond the boundaries of death and with that our entire species will benefit and evolve to unthinkable wonders.

>>10692381
Well, being conscious for eternity is kinda scary. I'm actually glad I'll die someday

>>10692381
move or save consciousness digitally
even that needs energy and the right infrastructure, the servers could be hit by meteorites anytime and sun activity will just wreck everything. so there is still death

>>10690794
>Pascals Wager
just fucking die

>>10692388
Surley if we can control consciousness in that way we will have some pretty dope back up systems at that stage.

>>10690794
>imfuckingplying God hasn't got a policy against false bets

>>10690782
your body starts to rot
time travelers check to see if they can make the universe better by giving you a another part in it, including better parts and worse parts

>>10690782
probably a game over screen.

>>10691267
>life needs a conscious observer
>except when you're asleep
>or in a coma
>or a life-form that may or may not be 'conscious', depending on your definition of the term

>>10690784
Now now, it's not nothing, but SOMETHING. Something will happen, we just don't know what it is.

>>10690794
Tfw all these redditors responding to you who haven’t even read the goddamn Wikipedia article on Pascals Wager.

>>10692445
Quite frankly anon,the afterlife ‘god’ offers me is in no way preferable to hell since everyone who has ever lusted,gambled or gluttoned is going there and it sounds way fucking better then constant worship and community sing alongs for etirnity.

Bonus : I’m not at all religious but Jesus is shown every single sin humans would ever commit and still chose to die so the implication of there being anything a person could really do in life to prevent him from going to heaven doesn’t make sense canonically (wild I know but that’s the faith)

>>10690782
who is that?

You randomly flare into existence as a Boltzmann brain several times before the universe ends.

>>10691077
>you will be able to hear the doctor pronounce you dead
Holy shit

The same that happened before you were born. There was nothing then, there will be nothing after.

>>10690784

>>10692451
The Bible doesn’t really require that, Judaism requires the nonstop worship and forever glory to god and trying to be a perfect being, but after that the New Testament just says: yeah you’re a shitty person you can’t be perfect so just try to not live in sin, try to be a good person and don’t be a dick about god. As long as you try to live out as a good person and acknowledge god as a higher power and don’t condemn him or advocate the opposite of what they want or call them bad or evil or call his faith completely fake then you’re good, you really have to read the Bible to get the true words but the New Testament, it’s very loose about the rules after the death of Christ, everyone who talks about god as some tyrant that forces you to obey and be perfect has read only the Old Testament. Also if you’re unsure about the religion just look at the religions that are built around power, Jews seem to have it the worse and have been prosecuted lol so idk why they’d have incentive to fake their religion for power when they’ve had none to bring with, but the most scientific belief to hold is agnosticism, we cannot prove there is no god so there is a possibility.

>>10690782
>>10692803
anyone?

>>10692386
>Well, being conscious for eternity is kinda scary
I swear I must be the only person who doesn't think that.

>>10690794
>Pascal's Wager
One problem: it assumes that the Judeo-Christian God is the one true god.

>>10690804
>taoism
>reincarnation
Yeah, this chart is bullshit.

>>10691140
I think this is called empty individualism.

>>10692430
>SOMETHING. Something will happen, we just don't know what it is.
There is no scientific evidence for this. What we can infer scientifically from experiences of unconsciousness etc. is that you will simply cease to be aware, that Death is a blunt endpoint to consciousness. It's just over, full stop. You're gone. Sound horrifying? That's why Man invented Religion.

>>10690799
>They would require overhwhelming evidence and probably community consensus.
You have vastly mischaracterized most scientists

>>10690794
based

>>10693248
By true scientist I mean a true empiricist, as I assume he did. It goes without saying that this is not a typical worldview.

>>10690782
What actually fascinates me is not whether there is an afterlife or not but its the fact that people who have been produced clinically dead are able to resuscitate.

From a biological point of view this tells us that human life is not limited biologically to X number of years. If we fully understood the workings of the body we could technically extend our lives to hundreds of years even to the death of the universe (if nothing else kills us first of course).. Humans today die because we arent smart enough to stay alive.

>>10690782
The world goes black or white, you lose control of your body, then you lose your memories, you forget what the concept of "black or white" or "memories" even means, you forget all that you can imagine existing as a thing or a concept or an idea or an action... it'd be like an infinite brain fog except you won't even be aware of having it. No emotions, no thoughts, no sensations ever again. Nothing, times infinity.

That's for your mind. As for the body, it'll probably end up pushing daisies somewhere, worthlessly occupying space and feeding some pathogenic microbes in the soil... or be recycled for soap.

>>10690782
Quantum suicide/immortality.
Respawn into the body of a schizophrenic in an alternate universe.
Boltzmann brain.

Whichever is most probable, assuming that people are simply a collection of information. Though that is a bit of a leap that some would disagree with. However, belief in some sort of divine anima is religious as well.

Anthropic principal applies to the individual in addition to the general observer. In the absence of any specifically outlined rules for the existence of the universe, one can only assume that every potentiality is just as legitimate as any other. If all configurations will exist, you will only observe ones that you are capable of observing.

You can't die in a permanent, metaphysical sense, and pretending you can makes you even more dogmatic than the most religious among us.

>>10693269
>Humans today die because we arent smart enough to stay alive
"We all gonna die someday anyway, ain't that right anon? So why not have some fun while at it? Don't be such a putz and try this good stuff, here, this one's on you *siiiiiip* mind if I borrow your lighter?"

>>10690782
sauce?

>>10690794
>Pascal's Wager
"You shall have no other gods but me" is literally the FIRST commandment

>>10690794
>it's actually objectively dumb as fuck to be an atheist (see Pascal's Wager).

There are infinitely many possible religions that exclude you from an afterlife or doom you to hell for not following them. Ergo, picking the one correct answer has infinitesimally small odds.

The only way that Pascal's Wager makes any sense is if you presuppose that only one of the popular, canonical human religions has to be the right one. Who's to say that the followers of Bleeblox Zarkloxian from Chiron Beta-Prime aren't the right ones?

>>10693055
There is a possibility that I'm jerking off to your post right now. You can't prove or disprove it, but I'm not jerking off.

>>10693383
Plus you could also win the favor of a hypothetical "god of skepticism" for going atheist/agnostic on reasonable grounds, rather than blindly believing what you've been taught by your parents.

>>10693053
I don't remember driving to lunch last thursday, doesn't mean I wasn't there.

>>10690782
The odds of being alive on earth right now are a whole lot higher if you've been here before. Combined with the fact that young kids often talk about their past lives, and their claims have been studied and appear weirdly accurate, probably some sort of reincarnation.

>>10693455
Except memory is a process tied to cerebral functions and is objectively annihilated by death. Consider an alzheimer patient who gradually gets his brain fried even before dying, and multiply that by infinity.

>>10690782
The same things that happens to you before you were conceived. You simply don't exist.

>>10690782
We wake up in another body, maybe in an another universe/reality

>>10690782
What happens to a computer after you smash it with a big rock?

>>10693062
>>10692803
>>10690782

Did some research. Charly Caruso is the name. Unfortunately she usually doesn't look nearly this good, although I will say her hair is perfect.

>>10693115
Muslims, Christians, and Jews literally believe in the same God, the God of Abraham. All other religions of the world believe in a great creator who can be paralleled to the Abrahamic God.

>>10694285
And all believe beyond a shadow of a doubt based on revelation that all other religions are going to burn for all eternity. Even worse than that most religions have hundreds of denominations that all believe that the people outside their denomination will burn.

>>10691229
b-based

>>10690828
believing everything is believing nothing

>>10690782
The most blissful nothingness you'll ever experience.

>>10694331
This is false. Almost all religions claim that their God is just and will judge "non-believers" justly. They simply acknowledge that its a lot harder to attain salvation or enlightenment outside of it.

>>10690794
Being an atheist is the only way to be though. There's no fucking objective for us, and I'm not sure how you can believe in god after studying quantum mechanics. Life happening anywhere to this extent is just the galaxies lining up and nothing more, we are probably alone too. The universe isn't meant to harbor life and unless we master it completely and unironically become gods that can control matter we probably will just die and then there will only be stars and rocks. Which all eventually will die too.

>>10690782
read Meno by Plato

>>10691077
what if i die in my sleep and then wake up 5 mins after i'm pronounced dead.. do i have 10 mins to think about wtf has just happened?

>>10693242
There's no scientific evidence that consciousness stops?

I could be wrong here but I believe I've heard from a few sources that you can't prove consciousness is produced by the brain. While we can't logically say "nothing happens" I don't think we can really say the opposite either.

If we can't find what makes us 'us' we can't really say what happens once we lose the ability to record it. Am I wrong to think this?

>>10690782
Returning to the source. Either waking up in a realer real world, having all your experiences harvested and being recycled, or being pruned by the algorithm.

I've considered whether the source is a finite pool, and when exhausted, any additional births end up as NPCs.

The simulation ends and youre either recycled or theres a real world (a simulation that does a simulation) where you wake up and your high score is calculated.

>>10694539
The lack of proof that something isn't true isn't proof that that thing is true. Your thought processes are retard-tier, sorry. Enjoy your life.

>>10693242
Yeah. I always think, being dead will be the easiest thing ever. It's dying that's hard, letting go. Makes me feel a bit better when the thought of death bears on me.

>>10690782
>Scientifically speaking and based on our current knowledge
No data.

>>10690782
everyone but you keeps going i guess, not sure what the fucking question is trying to assume

>>10690782
>ctrl + f
>no funeral
I thought /sci/ was smart

>>10690782
scientifically "one" doesn't exist