/sci/ - Science & Math

>>10665937
Because it's easy

>>10665937

because it can save your life.

>>10665937
Natural selection always selects those who act truths. Not those who speak them.

>>10665975
doesn't natural selection save cowards who lie though?

>>10665937
Competition rewards degrees of freedom when sentience comes into play

It doesn't.
It's a sort term consequence of civilization which is collapsing before our very eyes.

>>10666142
how so

>>10666186
Its pretty simple. If you have more options than your competitor you have an advantage. You become less predictable (exploitable) and can exploit more opportunities. Natural selection is a theory based in a competitive framework. In the context of OP's question, the ability to lie does not preclude the ability to tell the truth. There are some circumstances where lying leads to the more beneficial outcome.

>>10666209
Lying never leads to a beneficial outcome, therefore being able to lie doesn't give sentient beings any degrees of freedom to further their goals and it doesn't cause them to receive greater rewards. Lying is a symptom that the sentient being doesn't have the degrees of freedom necessary to be able to trust in the more beneficial action of telling the truth. The liars lack the degrees of freedom necessary to be a truth teller and therefore they aren't advantageous in the long run. Lying causes short term rewards for the sentient being but long term net loss.

Women select for superior liars as only possible control means.

>>10666359
>Lying never leads to a beneficial outcome
Gonne need some evidence here.

>>10666359
based

>>10666359
>Lying never leads to a beneficial outcome
So if someone who is killing anyone who likes pizza asks you "do you like pizza?", and you like pizza, you should tell the truth?

>>10666428
Your implied position is that lying sometimes leads to beneficial outcomes. I'm gonna need some evidence for that.

>>10666454
The best option is to trick the killer into not killing you. Your options are not saying anything, or deflecting the question

>>10666479
>The best option is to trick the killer into not killing you
You mean lie?
>Your options are not saying anything, or deflecting the question
Says who? Why isn't saying "yes I do" and option?

>>10666472
Lying about their position on issues is what gets politicians elected.

>>10666902
That isn't a beneficial outcome. If a politician is elected because of their lies then they'll pay the price in the long term when their lies are exposed.

Therefore your position that lying sometimes leads to beneficial outcomes is incorrect.

>>10666789
>You mean lie?
You don't have to lie to trick someone into not killing you. For example, you could trip them and make them drop their gun.

>Says who? Why isn't saying "yes I do" and option?
That's an option if you want to die.

>>10666951
Every politician is lying about what they support dumbass. It's a popularity contest. They're exposed all the time but no one gives a shit because everyone does it.

>>10666960
How does saying yes result in your death?

>>10666974
>Every politician is lying about what they support dumbass.
That doesn't mean that any of the politicians are benefitting from lying, your argument is still invalid.

>They're exposed all the time but no one gives a shit because everyone does it.
When they're exposed they receive negative social consequences leading to less success for their gene line in the long term. Therefore they receive long term loss and their lies don't result in any reward.

>>10666979
>Guy is killing people who likes pizza
>He asks you if you like pizza
>You say yes
>He kills you
>You're dead

That's the process in which saying yes results in your death.

>>10666994
How is lying and saying no a bad option?

>>10666988
They benefit by getting elected. The small socisl downsides don't really mean shit when it results in you getting elected.

>>10667016
>How is lying and saying no a bad option?
When you lie and say no, everyone will find out that you lied like a coward, resulting in negative social consequences and less success for your gene line in the long term.

>>10667016
>The small socisl downsides don't really mean shit when it results in you getting elected.
The benefits they get from being elected don't outweigh the long term consequences of lying. When people find out they lied, they receive social consequences that lead to less reproductive success for them and their offspring.

>>10666144
>Grug killed jaguar, definitely didn't find it dead
>Give Grug sexiest cavewoman or grug kill you

>>10665937
a) Natural selection don't real.
b) Low risk:reward.
c) Widespread social dysfunction and disintegration of cohesive social units.

>>10666359
I really, REALLY like this post.

>>10667018
What about lying where it can't be found out? Like what if you're really, really good at it and cover up all your tracks?

>>10665937
The ability to deceive has benefits for your reproductive success. Should be obvious how.

>>10665937
Because some people want the ability to control others, so in order to escape this control, people sometimes tend to lie

>>10669148
If you do that then your personality will be that of somebody who meticulously covers up their lies, and people can detect that about your personality and you will receive negative social consequences, e.g. people will get a feeling that you're not honest and will avoid doing business with you.

>>10669433
>people can detect that about your personality

what if they can't? dead serious.

>>10667018
>everyone will find out
we need to get out of our our room a little bit more, no?

>>10666359
two apes are starving, one honest and one dishonest. the liar gets the food and survives, the honest one dies. advantage > liar

two apes are horny, one nice and one rapey. the rapist impregnates a female, the nice guy eats some more leaves. advantage > rape ape

this shouldn't be hard to grasp: the animal we grew from was an asshole.